Redundant.

One or two GOOD snipers can do a lot for a game. They are the ones keeping a point from being captured and providing intel to a squad.

More than two snipers and you are either losing the match so everyone is sniping or you stand a good chance of it because you lost so many people to the sniper gang.

And those who only do it to buff their KD....I hate you.

Snipers are just below tankers in total selfishness/worthlessness. It's a role that CCP threw in to appeal to the coward demographic. Just like tanks.

Suck my massive tanker d!ck, you little scrub.

Im no coward. I've never hidden out in the redline, and my main target have always been other tanks. So I definitely put myself and my expensive tanks on the line. A lot of the times i'm even alone against several other tanks, because useless noobs like you think that you should get away with only speccing into infantry crap. I cover YOUR ass from the blaster maddys and somas that would've buttraped you if I wasn't there.

So take your "coward demographic" remark and shove it.

OnT:

Hate my own teams snipers for that very reason. There are ways to **** them off though. When I see a bunch of chickenshit snipers hiding in our redline and the battle is going bad, I run up to them and crouch right in front of them, blocking their scopes and field of view.

1a.Cut Sniper Rifle range to 300m.

1b.There is no logical reason for a sniper to have more range than a large railgun.

2. More than that, CCP should not reward redline play at all. Making Snipers come out into the field of play is what is really needed.

3. Only then should CCP consider buffing the Sniper.

I have never seen sniper and stomp in the same sentence .

Gemcutter...

Singlehandedly will shut down PC teams...

Has shut down Pub's just the same...

He's the name that people talk about when thinking about an effective sniper that does the job an entire squad can by himself.

Given the vulnerabilities snipers have, I must assume that you are either telling stories or said pc teams/pubs were awful. There's a lot of things that can kill a sniper that a sniper can't touch, especially HAVs and dropships.

Didn't dispute that he may be a good sniper, don't know or care about your or his Epeen. There's a guy who can hit a target from 200 yards with a snub nose .38 revolver so I don't doubt that someone can use a KB/M or controller to be l337 on the video gamez. Disputed that he singlehandedly (This means by yourself by the way) locked down a GOOD PC team. As for the reasons, see HAVS and dropships... because he can snipe a penny at a 1000 meters and that won't mean **** if it can't cause damage to the vehicle. No need to get all chest puffy, you exaggerated and I called it.

Also, this game has no bullet physics, the sniper rifle is hit scan... that is all.

A Dropship or a Tank does nothing for taking and holding letters... They are part of the strategy to do so... And are useless against a sniper... As you said?

I didn't think that simple nuance needed explaining...

I don't have to exaggerate.. it's what happened. alot.

In all honesty sniping is a major role in warfare, yet somehow CCP has failed to make sniper more important in dust.

I know, the community hates snipers. They sit in the redline and take pot shots at players who are actually playing. Yet, given the nerf to damage mods, the terribly unfriendly sniping in maps, the high TTK, the volume of eHP builds, cloaks, etc... The sniper has long been forgotten.

Snipers should be a valuable part of the game, and with the leader controls they should be a highly prized recon/killer/leader/area denier which have a tactical role n a battle. I know the commando class got a nice boost to snipers, but sniping in a heavy suit shouldn't be the plan or the only option. There should be more suits, maybe a better bonus to dam mods or weapon damage for snipers, and a better sniping mechanic.

Its not always the easiest thing to kill a redline sniper, and snipers can easily have a nice 7-9 k/d but their role as a leader, a recon, a tactician should be improved.. And if that requires making sniping more viable at lower tiers, or making maps more sniper friendly then that is what should be done. Because with all these arguments over racial suits and bonuses, and racial weapons blah blah blah no one pays that much attention to snipers and they should not be an after thought cause some elite community prices don't want to take damage while they are running across open spaces like idiots.

There are good and bad players.

You can compare good tankers who use their mobility, durability and weaponry to tip the balance of a fight near an objective so reinforcements can come and help you hold it with redline rail snipers who can't hold their own without such an overwhelming range advantage AND a ton of HP backing them up when someone comes close.

You can compare a skilled Shotgun Scout to the new brick-tanked cloaker who dies when they run at someone thinking their "invisibility" will save them.

You can compare a skilled Sniper who moves from perch to perch taking out critical targets at just the right time with a redline rail sniper who's basically a miniature bad tanker.

It doesn't matter which you look at, there are good players, and bad players, in every role.

Bad snipers are offensive because for the most part, they look like afkers. They often have the same post-game stats for Kills/Assists/Deaths and sometimes even shots fired.

If they implemented COMPETENT anti-afk measures, those would target redline snipers as well.

>Pretty much all maps are surrounded by giant cliffs

How does one get more sniper friendly? The issue is snipers want a fast TTK which can only be balanced with everyone having a fast TTK which is what everyone hates, because that would make this game CoD like and make mobility/stealth more important then most anything else and would in turn reduce the amount of viable builds. If sniper rifles become 360 no scope watch me be a baws guns then this game will have to fundamentally change what it is trying to be which is not a CoD shooter.

I can one shot kill most STD suits and 2 shot most adv suits with headshots, not really sure what you expect to happen other than I guess one shot killing proto/heavy suits with a headshot? It's a hit scan weapon, it's too easy to head shot as is. This is with a STD sniper and a adv sniper if I'm feeling frisky btw. Thale's head shots can wreck many a suit.

In the end, we don't need 6 snipers on a team and it hurts the team when "you" do that, as in people who do that not necessarily the guy I quoted, just to clarify. I'd rather have 6 potato cannons running at the objective then 6 snipers hanging out in our redline.

You need to realize that snipers in Domination are the COWARDLY vets who checked the roster and saw who they'd be up against. That many more independents running against the protostomp corps won't win the match.

It has already become a simple matter of get your kills while you can until match's end.

Some day the new players will realize this simple process until CCP can do something about the pairing of proto tryhard groups looking for easy points using exploitable mechanics to solo casuals just trying to enjoy a good battle with good flow.

This issue isn't being on cliffs, it's about sight lines. You can snipe from a cliff right into the side of a building in 80% of the maps. There is hardly anything except for cliffs is also a problem. Also, there is no sniping suit and the best suit to snipe in is a commando cal suit and that thing sticks out like a snore thumb. Wonder what the big white brick is doing on those red and brown cliffs... Hmm

Again, there are No sight lines for snipers, no real place to be the recon or leader.

You cannot one hit most std suits thats great I'm happy for you, but very few players run standard suits except for noobs who are using the standard frontline/medic/sniper fits. They don't have the benefit for better mods, or better skill points boosts.
Even then, gal suit with 3 armor mods, you might not be able to take that down without a headshot. The point isn't to be a terror on the battlefield, its to be a useful tool and the vast majority of maps do not allow snipers to excel in these role. They are simply a redline sitting, taking shots are people being dumb and crossing open spaces kind of a player.

I'm not a sniper, i spec'd into it once and it was boring as hell. But I would just like to see their roles expanded by having more maps with more sight lines, maybe more sniper oriented suits and a better experience for snipers at lower levels.

I went through and numbered your comments, hope you don't mind.


1. The railgun argument has some basis so I can somewhat agree with that. however, instead of nerfing the sniper, give the railgun a longer range.

Fixed!

If your not playing to have fun, what's the point of playing the game? K/D ratio? A meaningless number that doesn't serve any real purpose. I don't understand these so called "vets".

Against no, I never said a tank/dropship can't stop a sniper. That was the exact opposite of what I said and what you should of read there. Pretty sure tanks or Dropships can kill a sniper, assuming it's not a Thale's Redline sniper who is head glitching. If Gemcutter is one of THOSE snipers, then lol, there are still ways to stop that again assuming this guy is singlehandedly holding off the other team. Otherwise, I draw back to the whole singlehandedly argument because although this statement would mean Gemcutter must hold the objective and the other team alone with his sniper the other team can employ any combination that 16 allows.

Stop getting all crotchety, I pointed out the flaws in your boasting symantecs and you're trying to defend it for some silly reason. Slow your roll dingleberry.

Snipers are annoying for the same reason Most people who try sniping in DUST find annoying.

There is no spots other then the red-line... Or CCP un-intentional designed spot's found and countered ONLY by dropship.

The map designs are horrible for understanding the roles in DUST 514... there is no scale or flow... Roads dead end out of no where... Ladders go to no where important on the map with no vantage points... Not enough ladders... No elevators...

Huge buildings taking up Game performance which provide no function... No internal structure... No multi level playability...

Snipers are a victim of CCP's un realized concept...

Where CCP Still hasn't sat down in front of a giant White board with the staff... and Fully realized the concept of DUST 514... and how it works today... and then after...

[quote=GeneralButtNaked]

What is the point of being a Sniper if you have to be in range of assault weapons to use them? I have to get into my stance (making me immobile), pull my rifle up, line up the shot, and shoot, while you are putting 10-15-20 rounds in me at the same distance. I get a total of 3-5 shots before reloading and you have a 50 round or more per magazine on rapid fire.

What you are saying is taking away the entire point of a sniper... Reach out and touch someone . The entire purpose of a Sniper (real world) is long range suppression and assistance. Right now it is a 2.5 to 1 ratio (250 vs. 600). That isn't unrealistic by any means, If anything, it is underwhelming. Just like in real life, Snipers SHOULD have more distance to their shots. A 338 Lapua or a 416 Rigby (or a Barrett .50 Cal while we're talking about it) have much longer accurate ranges than an M-16 or AK-47. The three previously mentioned can all reach out to about a mile (the Barrett .50 in 2012 had a confirmed kill at 1.75 miles. Granted, that's a world record, but a 1 mile shot is not unheard of anymore in the sniping world, just extremely difficult.) However, the documented and accepted max effective range is 1.1 miles.

An M16A2 has a max effective range for AREA, not person specific, targets of about 1/2 a mile; an M4 is only 1/3 of a mile. I know as of 2008 the Army didn't even do shooting (for regular forces, I'm not sure on SF, etc.) of 330 yards which is less than 2/10 of a mile. An AK-47 only has about a 225 yard max effective distance which is about 1/10 of a mile. So really, if an assault rifle has a max effective range of 250, we should be seeing 1000 minimum distance which is only 4 times farther, not the 6 times farther of the standard world.

The maps and their layouts have taken the sniper out of 80% of them. I don't want to be a guy just sitting up in the hills picking a few guys off and getting 4-5 kills a game. But many of the maps are set up where there is no Line of Sight to any or only 1 of the Null cannons on the map. If that single null cannon isn't being contested, there's not a whole lot I can do. Until recently, I only had sniper skills so I'm not going charging into the middle of a firefight at 100 meters and in just to get whacked.

On that same note, it is really upsetting when I get into a position to be helpful to the team, see a bunch of reds on a ledge, put 5 or 6 rounds from a maxed out Charge Sniper Rifle (running 3 complex and 1 enhanced light damage modifier) into someone and they don't go down. I had a game recently where there were 3 guys on a ledge (1 heavy and 2 mediums I believe). I put 25 rounds into the three of them. I'd be willing to bet 19 of them hit. I didn't kill one of them. I once hit a heavy with 3 HEAD SHOTS in a row and they still had almost full armor. When I can put 100 rounds out during a match, put 60% on target (I'd say that is a good # for this debate), and I'm only ending up with 6 kills, there is something wrong here. Look at the info in my first comment. Each weapon in this game has it's real world counterpart (the rail and forge gun are protos but there is still something out there.) Most machine guns take several rounds through armor. A shotgun blast is going to take out pretty much anything at close range. On the same note, a Barrett .50 Cal (or anything used for sniping by most miltary snipers) are a one shot, one kill type of weapon. It doesn't make sense that a weapon that should theoretically be a 2 shot at most weapon can't take someone out with 6 or 7 shots.

Something needs to be done to make the Sniper at least a viable option on the battlefield instead of relegating it into uselessness.

Broadly I think you have three groups:

1. Vets who are seriously good with the sniper rifle. Very small group I guess
2. Vets who are bored with whatever play style they were using and decided on a change.
3. Newbs who have realised that getting anywhere near the front lines especially if there are a high number of vets on the field or even worse when you are facing a stomp.

Only number 3 is solvable but I haven't seen a serious attempt to do so in over a year. I don't consider the academy to be a serious solution.

I think at the moment we are stuck in a rut with many people just going through the motions.

How many times have you looked at the team line out at the start of the match and called it.