[quote=Cotsy8]I can 2 shot kill most adv suits with headshots

I'm not sure if that was intended for the original person's comment or you misunderstood my position. I'm arguing for MORE distance for the Sniper rifle, more damage, and better optics, not worse. The person mentioned a rail gun not having the same distance, and I was just suggesting if you want to complain about the distance, give the rail gun a farther distance to make it more comparable to a Sniper. Don't nerf the sniper rifles even more than they already have been. Snipers have been handcuffed enough with the updates. I'm guessing you didn't mean to include my comments on your response and if that is the case, sorry for the confusion.

I'm going to disagree with you however on the distance issue. The day after the 1.8 update, I was Sniping and I had two confirmed kills at over 400 meters. I had a headshot kill (longest shot) at 512. I'm using a Charge Sniper. From what I've seen on different forums, etc, it sounds like the max distance is around 600m. I can sit on a hill and look at a null cannon with a 500 m distance on it and see people walking around and hit them. It is darn difficult, but it is still possible. However, I agree with the main point that they have definitely restricted the scopes compared to the old versions of the game. They need to do something with the scope magnification so if it will reach out to 600 or so meters, the user is able to SEE up to 600 meters. This is a futuristic game/firearm. We should get more than a standard 9 power scope on it.

[quote=Onesimus Tarsus]Snipers are just below tankers in total selfishness/worthlessness. It's a role that CCP threw in to appeal to the coward demographic. Just like tanks.



Yall lucky the snipers arent realistic if the charged sniper was realistic the only thing you would find from a sniper hit would be a few shreds of armor a 50 cal sniper rifle is effective in the right hands at over 1 mile it can literally make dust out of a concrete block it is also capable of stoping vehicles hint of the day after you see someone sniped on the kill feed dont break cover becaus. Unlike in real life snipers in dust do not have the ability to blow through walls

Redline snipers are often new players learning the game without getting smashed by the stompers. Let's not choke out our lifeblood of new players.

IMHO Large rail guns should set the maximum range. Everything else should fall within that range. Yes I've just been killed 4 times in this match already and were just now getting into MCC armor.

I went through and numbered your comments, hope you don't mind.


1. The railgun argument has some basis so I can somewhat agree with that. however, instead of nerfing the sniper, give the railgun a longer range.

What is the point of being a Sniper if you have to be in range of assault weapons to use them? I have to get into my stance (making me immobile), pull my rifle up, line up the shot, and shoot, while you are putting 10-15-20 rounds in me at the same distance. I get a total of 3-5 shots before reloading and you have a 50 round or more per magazine on rapid fire.

What you are saying is taking away the entire point of a sniper... Reach out and touch someone . The entire purpose of a Sniper (real world) is long range suppression and assistance. Right now it is a 2.5 to 1 ratio (250 vs. 600). That isn't unrealistic by any means, If anything, it is underwhelming. Just like in real life, Snipers SHOULD have more distance to their shots. A 338 Lapua or a 416 Rigby (or a Barrett .50 Cal while we're talking about it) have much longer accurate ranges than an M-16 or AK-47. The three previously mentioned can all reach out to about a mile (the Barrett .50 in 2012 had a confirmed kill at 1.75 miles. Granted, that's a world record, but a 1 mile shot is not unheard of anymore in the sniping world, just extremely difficult.) However, the documented and accepted max effective range is 1.1 miles.

An M16A2 has a max effective range for AREA, not person specific, targets of about 1/2 a mile; an M4 is only 1/3 of a mile. I know as of 2008 the Army didn't even do shooting (for regular forces, I'm not sure on SF, etc.) of 330 yards which is less than 2/10 of a mile. An AK-47 only has about a 225 yard max effective distance which is about 1/10 of a mile. So really, if an assault rifle has a max effective range of 250, we should be seeing 1000 minimum distance which is only 4 times farther, not the 6 times farther of the standard world.

2. Agree. I'm a Sniper and I don't care for the guys who redline camp with no overwatch position and just pad k/d ratios. I think someone mentioned making any kills from the redline out be zero WP and does not count as a kill. By all means, go for it. I also like the idea of occasionally napalming the whole redline to keep people honest. Or, have something set up on the suits so if someone is in the redline for a total of 5 minutes, the suit goes boom. It would have to be total time because there are people who would sit in the redline for 4 minutes and 45 seconds, pop out, then pop back in. Nope. After 3 total minutes, the suit blows. After the first time, you only get 1 minute of total time and then the suit blows up as well.

3. For the record, since open beta I have been a dedicated Sniper. That was about the only thing my stats were even put into. However, I have recently started running Logi. This is because the game has basically made the Sniper irrelevant. I used to pick up 20 kills a game with no real problem. However, the nerfing/maps have made that nigh impossible.

The maps and their layouts have taken the sniper out of 80% of them. I don't want to be a guy just sitting up in the hills picking a few guys off and getting 4-5 kills a game. But many of the maps are set up where there is no Line of Sight to any or only 1 of the Null cannons on the map. If that single null cannon isn't being contested, there's not a whole lot I can do. Until recently, I only had sniper skills so I'm not going charging into the middle of a firefight at 100 meters and in just to get whacked.

On that same note, it is really upsetting when I get into a position to be helpful to the team, see a bunch of reds on a ledge, put 5 or 6 rounds from a maxed out Charge Sniper Rifle (running 3 complex and 1 enhanced light damage modifier) into someone and they don't go down. I had a game recently where there were 3 guys on a ledge (1 heavy and 2 mediums I believe). I put 25 rounds into the three of them. I'd be willing to bet 19 of them hit. I didn't kill one of them. I once hit a heavy with 3 HEAD SHOTS in a row and they still had almost full armor. When I can put 100 rounds out during a match, put 60% on target (I'd say that is a good # for this debate), and I'm only ending up with 6 kills, there is something wrong here. Look at the info in my first comment. Each weapon in this game has it's real world counterpart (the rail and forge gun are protos but there is still something out there.) Most machine guns take several rounds through armor. A shotgun blast is going to take out pretty much anything at close range. On the same note, a Barrett .50 Cal (or anything used for sniping by most miltary snipers) are a one shot, one kill type of weapon. It doesn't make sense that a weapon that should theoretically be a 2 shot at most weapon can't take someone out with 6 or 7 shots.

Something needs to be done to make the Sniper at least a viable option on the battlefield instead of relegating it into uselessness.

Makes no sence for you to say. real snipers have a range of 1 mile dont figure you know how many meters that is so think lets say a little over 1500 meters charged snipers shoot redline to redline most maps its about spot on guys dont turn this forum into hater city he cleary has no problem with the sniper just the amount of snipers in some matches if you wanna complain make yourself a forum ill even help you name it lets call it I HATE EVERY WEAPON I DONT OR CANT USE . that sounds about right

Yea and real rail guns have ranges far greater then a mile so whats your point? Yet my large rail gun barely out ranges a blaster tank all the while snipers can shoot redline to redline.

The debate about the realism of sniper rifles in this game is stupid since this is, wait for it, a game. As a game it needs to be based upon fun for all players which realistic sniper weapons do not allow for. They are intended to be unfair.

The unfortunate draw back of having non-realistic sniper weapons is that they are not an asset to the team. Yep I said it, not an asset. How many of the PC teams which were successful were using snipers prior to the collapse of PC? None. The reason is that by comparison the other weapons in the game the sniper rifle has no area it actual specializes in. Its even out classed out long range point denial by the forge gun (at least when that weapon fires), a weapon which also can destroy vehicles (again when it can fire).

Since the sniper rifle currently has no place in the game it should be removed, as should the plasma cannon, until CCP can find a way to make having one a team asset without destroying the fun of other players. Sorry snipers, I hate to tell you this but it reall is all true.

Fun did you say fun ? O wow guy im thinking that if ccp wanted this game to be fun for all they would make a skill based match not allow certain groups of people jump in and stomp the heck outta the poor noobs qsync pubs and such dont get me wrong ill do it quickly as the next guy i like the proto stomps whether i have a desent team or not got a good team stomp em back makes it fun but what about the guy in basic boo to him most the time theyll quit trust they are not having fun at all hopefully have there passive on and come back in a year when they stand a chance ccp does not want there game fun for all they promote extortion and dishonesty

The unfortunate draw back of having non-realistic sniper weapons is that they are not an asset to the team. Yep I said it, not an asset.

How many of the PC teams which were successful were using snipers prior to the collapse of PC?

The reason is that by comparison the other weapons in the game the sniper rifle has no area it actual specializes in. Its even out classed out long range point denial by the forge gun (at least when that weapon fires), a weapon which also can destroy vehicles (again when it can fire).

Address this post a few comments before yours. A good sniper is an asset to the team in many ways.


Go and dig up all the information you can on a player called Gem Cutter. You might be surprised what you learn.


They WHAT? I'm sorry, but lolno.

Snipers are THE extreme range fire support weapon. Forge Guns can fill a mid-to-long range role, but beyond that, it's Sniper Rifles. There's a limit to how far a Forge can be used accurately enough to kill infantry, and that limit is MUCH closer than the range a good sniper will be killing from.

Also, you seem to be under the impression that snipers are fixed emplacements instead of mobile assets. This is what competent players refer to as a "bad sniper". Bad snipers should not be used as evidence of the role not being valuable. In DUST, bad snipers prove that the Sniper Rifle is useless in exactly the same way blind people prove that cloaked players can't be seen at all by anyone.

Garrett, I've played with Gem Cutter (against) and this game is not the same game we were all playing two years ago. Snipers used to be a team asset they are no longer. You've been away for a long time and things have changed. Everything that I said is 100% correct in this current build and has been correct for the last few builds.

How many of the PC teams which were successful were using snipers prior to the collapse of PC?

Yes, forge guns are better at stopping hackers on a point since they one shot kill everyone, sniper rifles do not, and they have the added bonus of being able to take out tanks, something sniper rifles cannot do in game. The range limits on forges don't mean much since the maps are pretty small. Forgers can easily move between overwatch points with a DS. Snipers can't chase people off points anymore. I can hack faster than you can kill me in almost every instance. If I can't get the hack alone (you'd have to be using a thales) then half of my squad hacking together can. Also if you are sniping from more than forge gun range you are probably in the redline hiding like a wuss which limits your effective targets and thus your effectiveness. (red line sniping is another thing that needs changing but that is a topic for another day).

I am sorry but I am not referring to stationary snipers. I am referring to all snipers. In the last few builds snipers, even good ones, are not team assets. They are annoyances that cannot stop the enemy from doing a single thing and take up valuable space on a team's roster. Every single role that a sniper can perform can be done better by another style of player. The worst part is that the sniper isn't even a decent generalist at this point. Snipers are specialists who suck at their specialty. Before you start your tears again I suggest you get into some serious competetive games and see how many snipers there are. Try using one in a competetive game and see how little effect you have on the match's outcome.

I am asking CCP to remove the sniper rifle not because I hate the play style but because it does nothing to support team play in or even team success in its current form. This is really just my way of calling for a reinvention of the weapon and its role. I am doing so in an extreme way to elicit a reaction that is less extreme (think Earth First being established to make Greenpeace look like respectable moderates). I'm saying something extreme to make reasonable moderate responses seem more reasonable and thus more likely to be implemented.

Redline snipers are often new players learning the game without getting smashed by the stompers. Let's not choke out our lifeblood of new players.

Ha glad you typed all that must have read my mind i aggree with you on the redline thing although if they do do that they need to make the interior somewhat sniper friendly limited spots to snipe from makes the redline high ground ideal for the sniper when i do snipe i tend to move around empty a clip move again ( one shot one kill not realy) after you shoot half the time you give your position away sucks

Snipers tend to make me angry, and no it's not they keep killing me and I'm losing my suits while they're safely sitting back in the red zone away from the battle complaining that they want hit detection for that kind of range. No, this is about playing Domination and having 3-10 snipers on my own team camping the red line/mountains. Can't really take an objective When most of my team is hiding up in the red line with a sniper rifle thinking they're making a difference, though in all reality I think they really don't care if they win or lose as long as their k/d is good. They don't even bother trying to take out enemy snipers because my guess is if we miss a shot at them, they might figure out where we're at and we might actually die or something.

It's like they group up in the mountains, huddle around, somebody brings a 30 pack, and they just watch their team lose, but it's ok, their k/d is positive! Need more of an incentive for people to put down a sniper rifle and actually get into the battle and actually win a game. Their win/lose ratio might be terrible, but it's all about k/d man. Reminds me of this old comic I read that featured 2 cats as the main characters, they did an Unreal 2004 Assault strip about the train level where the attackers had to board the enemy train. All the attackers just got on their platform with sniper rifles and didn't bother boarding the enemy train then after the battle were like wtf, how did we lose? I got out my sniper rifle and everything.