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Balancing Mediums and Scouts. CCP Read this please.

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jace silencerww D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 13	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:57:00 - [31] - Quote Cotsy8 wrote: Lightning xVx wrote: Over the last month I have seen nothing but Armor stacking Scouts pulling 500-600+ eHP for almost every match that I go into. I have see players use Proto Boundless CR & RR, Proto Scanners and an abundance of Armor plates with hardly any penalties. This month has been nothing but frustrating to say the least and that it doesn't even make ANY sense to run a Scout suit when you can just put that health/ weapons on a Medium. CCP, you need to make it where its more of a penalty for light suits to tank THAT much health, because whats the point in running a medium suit when you can just do Scouts? More upgrades for Biotics, more penalty for Armor. Think 1.8 Amarr scouts will be any better. They can stack some serious serious armor at no loss to speed and a cloak, potentially very dangerous set up. The game is designed that players will use what works the best, if tanks can use 3 hardeners and Gal Sents will be 1400 eHP why cant scouts make the most of what is available to them? Just because its not how you see a scout doesnt mean its a wrong set up to use. Speed and eHP is a nice combination only to me made deadlier in 1.8 lol nope Gal with self passive rep of 3 will trash amarr
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 217	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:57:00 - [32] - Quote Joel II X wrote: You can dodge basic scanners with proto Scout and have health so um while it does defeat the purpose of the Scout suit, the whole point of the game is to be able to fit any suit however you want. The current speed penalty is enough. Good scouts don't need any rifles or health buffers to survive. yeah, and bad scouts who are just FoTM med frames chasing after their next crutch will flock to the gallente scout in hoards and armor tank it, and be more effective than the med frames that they should be running for that purpose Kills-Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Roy Ventus Axis of Chaos 1423	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:57:00 - [33] - Quote Lightning xVx wrote: Over the last month I have seen nothing but Armor stacking Scouts pulling 500-600+ eHP for almost every match that I go into. I have see players use Proto Boundless CR & RR, Proto Scanners and an abundance of Armor plates with hardly any penalties. This month has been nothing but frustrating to say the least and that it doesn't even make ANY sense to run a Scout suit when you can just put that health/ weapons on a Medium. CCP, you need to make it where its more of a penalty for light suits to tank THAT much health, because whats the point in running a medium suit when you can just do Scouts? More upgrades for Biotics, more penalty for Armor. o,o Scouts shouldn't be limited in their tank as much as you're suggesting. They lack the same offensive capability as assault suits. I know, I know "Woopity doo, a bonus to tight hip-spread for plasma weapons" but honestly the assault bonuses will mean a lot with the TTK being raised. They also lack the versatility of the assault and logistics suit. Pretty sure I'll still be able to push near 1000 eHP come 1.8 and scouts won't be able to do that(although even as an assault that's not really worth it). "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Lightning xVx R 0 N 1 N 437	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:57:00 - [34] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Lightning xVx wrote: jace silencerww wrote: LOL just wait the GAL scout is going to be a beast. think armor tanking scout with a passive self rep of 3 look at lokk the gal suit they all are getting self rep here are the rep rate. (remember this is passive build into the suit) heavies/commando reps 1, assaults/logis reps 2, scout reps 3. This is why the Gallente Scout will be incredibly the strongest Scout. ON ALL CATEGORIES OF SCOUT. yeah it sux that minmitar, amarr, and even caldari are outclassed by it. My suggestion would be to nerf scouts abilities to plate stack, nerf the pg on the caldari scout so that it uses pretty much just e-war mods, make shield extenders cost less pg at the same time, and more CPU as well, and just make it so that scouts can't tank armor wise. 1 plate should be fine, and 2 plates should be the limit before you are gimping urself I think Scouts (other then Gallente) are balanced, so far. And plates are fine so long as it doesn't exceed Advanced level without some form of bigger penalty.
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 218	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:59:00 - [35] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: Lightning xVx wrote: DJINN Marauder wrote: Nooooo! How else will my amarr scout be viable if I'm not attaining 600+ hp?! And I understand where your coming from Marauder...but you gotta understand is that, once you put that much health it should ultimately make you JUST AS SLOW as a medium. So the more tankier the slower on all categories. Kinda like how it was for heavies to turn speed back a few builds ago. The more health you have on you, the more the burden is. Like in Skyrim or Demons/Dark Souls. Tankier=Health : Light=Squisher but faster. Yeah but then In turn, you'd have to make it so that mediums can't reach scout speed/stamina/ whatever else. If scouts shouldn't be able to obtain a Medium Frame's normal amount of hp (at proto), then Mediums must not be able to reach a Light Frame's amount of speed and stamina and dampening and what not. that is exactly what we want. Or, scouts can achieve med frame HP, but it would be gimping themselves and just better in every way to run a med frame, and med frames can achieve scout like biotics and electronics, but they would be gimping themselves and it would be better in every way to run a scout. Sandbox, yet still balanced Kills-Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
DJINN Marauder Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4651	Posted - 2014.03.20 03:00:00 - [36] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Joel II X wrote: You can dodge basic scanners with proto Scout and have health so um while it does defeat the purpose of the Scout suit, the whole point of the game is to be able to fit any suit however you want. The current speed penalty is enough. Good scouts don't need any rifles or health buffers to survive. yeah, and bad scouts who are just FoTM med frames chasing after their next crutch will flock to the gallente scout in hoards and armor tank it, and be more effective than the med frames that they should be running for that purpose Essentially, the 1.8 gallente scout will be the 1.6-7 new Gallente Logi.... Armor tanked up the ass with proto weapons and Wirkyomi triage hives (no ** it can actually fit all that. I tested it) However I'm not sure exactly what we should do. If we punish armor stacking, shouldn't we punish shield stacking? GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 5** \| Warframe is awesome! \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
Aythadis Smith G I A N T General Tso's Alliance 137	Posted - 2014.03.20 03:01:00 - [37] - Quote Before it's even out, I'm seeing a call to nerf
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 218	Posted - 2014.03.20 03:03:00 - [38] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Joel II X wrote: You can dodge basic scanners with proto Scout and have health so um while it does defeat the purpose of the Scout suit, the whole point of the game is to be able to fit any suit however you want. The current speed penalty is enough. Good scouts don't need any rifles or health buffers to survive. yeah, and bad scouts who are just FoTM med frames chasing after their next crutch will flock to the gallente scout in hoards and armor tank it, and be more effective than the med frames that they should be running for that purpose Essentially, the 1.8 gallente scout will be the 1.6-7 new Gallente Logi.... Armor tanked up the ass with proto weapons and Wirkyomi triage hives (no **** it can actually fit all that. I tested it) However I'm not sure exactly what we should do. If we punish armor stacking, shouldn't we punish shield stacking? shield stacking is gimped as it is. Armor stacking should only be punished on scouts, and only for regular plates. Ferros and reactives SHOULD be used on armor scouts, just like extenders are used on a min scout right now. the only problem is the massive hp regular plates give without a penalty will allow scout suits to become the new med frames of 1.8, which is something no scout will ever want Kills-Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 218	Posted - 2014.03.20 03:03:00 - [39] - Quote Aythadis Smith wrote: Before it's even out, I'm seeing a call to nerf take note-these nerfs are being called out by the scout community itself, which says something here Kills-Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Lightning xVx R 0 N 1 N 439	Posted - 2014.03.20 03:04:00 - [40] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Joel II X wrote: You can dodge basic scanners with proto Scout and have health so um while it does defeat the purpose of the Scout suit, the whole point of the game is to be able to fit any suit however you want. The current speed penalty is enough. Good scouts don't need any rifles or health buffers to survive. yeah, and bad scouts who are just FoTM med frames chasing after their next crutch will flock to the gallente scout in hoards and armor tank it, and be more effective than the med frames that they should be running for that purpose Essentially, the 1.8 gallente scout will be the 1.6-7 new Gallente Logi.... Armor tanked up the ass with proto weapons and Wirkyomi triage hives (no **** it can actually fit all that. I tested it) However I'm not sure exactly what we should do. If we punish armor stacking, shouldn't we punish shield stacking? There is already a nerf to shield tanking, but I believe anything over 2 shields should reduce a bit more of the regulation or recharge of it.

Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 1790	Posted - 2014.03.20 03:06:00 - [41] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Joel II X wrote: You can dodge basic scanners with proto Scout and have health so um while it does defeat the purpose of the Scout suit, the whole point of the game is to be able to fit any suit however you want. The current speed penalty is enough. Good scouts don't need any rifles or health buffers to survive. yeah, and bad scouts who are just FoTM med frames chasing after their next crutch will flock to the gallente scout in hoards and armor tank it, and be more effective than the med frames that they should be running for that purpose Essentially, the 1.8 gallente scout will be the 1.6-7 new Gallente Logi.... Armor tanked up the ass with proto weapons and Wirkyomi triage hives (no **** it can actually fit all that. I tested it) However I'm not sure exactly what we should do. If we punish armor stacking, shouldn't we punish shield stacking? If they're bad scouts, you'll be able to kill them easily. I've done it multiple times. Also, how are you going to punish shield stacking? They already have the penalty. Also, I was Gallente Scout before it was cool. Just letting you guys know ;) lol
Lightning xVx R 0 N 1 N 441	Posted - 2014.03.20 03:07:00 - [42] - Quote Joel II X wrote: DJINN Marauder wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Joel II X wrote: You can dodge basic scanners with proto Scout and have health so um while it does defeat the purpose of the Scout suit, the whole point of the game is to be able to fit any suit however you want. The current speed penalty is enough. Good scouts don't need any rifles or health buffers to survive. yeah, and bad scouts who are just FoTM med frames chasing after their next crutch will flock to the gallente scout in hoards and armor tank it, and be more effective than the med frames that they should be running for that purpose Essentially, the 1.8 gallente scout will be the 1.6-7 new Gallente Logi.... Armor tanked up the ass with proto weapons and Wirkyomi triage hives (no **** it can actually fit all that. I tested it) However I'm not sure exactly what we should do. If we punish armor stacking, shouldn't we punish shield stacking? If they're bad scouts, you'll be able to kill them easily. I've done it multiple times. Also, how are you going to punish shield stacking? They already have the penalty. Also, I was Gallente Scout before it was cool. Just letting you guys know ;) lol Bad Scouts? If there running that much health and proto gear then their not even considered Scout anymore, they're Assaults in skinnier suits.
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 49	Posted - 2014.03.20 03:09:00 - [43] - Quote Lightning xVx wrote: jace silencerww wrote: LOL just wait the GAL scout is going to be a beast. think armor tanking scout with a passive self rep of 3 look at lokk the gal suit they all are getting self rep here are the rep rate. (remember this is passive build into the suit) heavies/commando reps 1, assaults/logis reps 2, scout reps 3. This is why the Gallente Scout will be incredibly the strongest Scout. ON ALL CATEGORIES OF SCOUT. I think the Cal might be the strongest. I know it can't play both speed and stealth game but i expect elite squads to include a Cal scout. Scan, chase, kill, repeat. It'll be death at high speed and will help spawn traps. It wont matter if you can see them, they will get you first. They won't bother with outliers, they will just run over everyone else.
Hakyou Brutor G0DS AM0NG MEN D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 121	Posted - 2014.03.20 03:09:00 - [44] - Quote http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/1329 a¦á_a¦á My 1.8 fit
Blind Nojoy G I A N T General Tso's Alliance 141	Posted - 2014.03.20 03:09:00 - [45] - Quote Lightning xVx wrote: Scout Registry wrote: Lightning xVx wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: yeah. light frames need to receive a huge speed penalty from plates, to the point where you'll be faster running assault. Maybe add a dampening nerf as well. But then you would also need to reduce ferroscale cpu/pg costs to make them viable for g/a scouts to use to gain small amounts of HP I know Scouts are going to be big come 1.8, but you can't just make a Scout suit outclass a Medium? Then there would be NO POINT in even running one. It needs to be balanced in a hotfix, PRONTO before or during 1.8. Or else you will see a **** ton of Scouts armor stacking; being completely invisible on radar and on screen. Outcome A - Suits are balanced. Folks stick to what they know. Nothing happens. Outcome B - Scouts and Heavies are OP. Everyone skills into 'em then they get nerfed. Outcome C - Scouts and Heavies are OP. Everyone skills into 'em, then CCP buffs Med Frames. Think we'll get another Respec anytime soon? I say let them come and sink their SP. It's Tourist Season. I believe it might be outcome B & C....that's what worries me. It's gonna be a sh*t show. I'm gonna be running BPOs for a week and holding on to all my dropsuit command sp until after the inevitable forum explosion of QQ followed by frantic hot fixes/nerfs. My advice: wait for the dust (zing) to settle.
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 49	Posted - 2014.03.20 03:10:00 - [46] - Quote Lightning xVx wrote: Joel II X wrote: DJINN Marauder wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Joel II X wrote: You can dodge basic scanners with proto Scout and have health so um while it does defeat the purpose of the Scout suit, the whole point of the game is to be able to fit any suit however you want. The current speed penalty is enough. Good scouts don't need any rifles or health buffers to survive. yeah, and bad scouts who are just FoTM med frames chasing after their next crutch will flock to the gallente scout in hoards and armor tank it, and be more effective than the med frames that they should be running for that purpose Essentially, the 1.8 gallente scout will be the 1.6-7 new Gallente Logi.... Armor tanked up the ass with proto weapons and Wirkyomi triage hives (no **** it can actually fit all that. I tested it) However I'm not sure exactly what we should do. If we punish armor stacking, shouldn't we punish shield stacking? If they're bad scouts, you'll be able to kill them easily. I've done it multiple times. Also, how are you going to punish shield stacking? They already have the penalty. Also, I was Gallente Scout before it was cool. Just letting you guys know ;) lol Bad Scouts? If there running that much health and proto gear then their not even considered Scout anymore, they're Assaults in skinnier suits. There's nothing wrong with making the most of what is given.
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 49	Posted - 2014.03.20 03:12:00 - [47] - Quote Hakyou Brutor wrote: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/1329 a¦á_a¦á Drop one armor for a damp complex and it's even scarier and provides more shields with spare CPU/PG. Scary.
Lightning xVx R 0 N 1 N 441	Posted - 2014.03.20 03:13:00 - [48] - Quote Hakyou Brutor wrote: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/1329 a¦á_a¦á I rest my ******* case. Look at that link everyone! Holy Santa Clause Shi.t........
Eric Del Carlo 0uter.Heaven 59	Posted - 2014.03.20 03:14:00 - [49] - Quote I think a simple solution would be to simply add a severe penalty once a person fitting a scout puts more than one armor mod, perhaps say 50% effectiveness on the 2nd mod, then 25% effective on the third. None of the true scouts deserve to have the suits themselves nerfed because tourists will abuse the suit's ability to tank like crazy. I think this solution would be the best, because you'll still be able to gain a little survivability without going overboard. GÖò Scout Shotgunner GÖò ßâÜ(a¦át¢èa¦áßâÜ) ... Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼ pâÄ( pé£-pé£pâÄ) ... (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+ ... Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼ pâÄ( pé£-pé£pâÄ) ... Gö¼GöÇGö¼n++ n+¦ /(.Gûí. \n+ë
JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game 216	Posted - 2014.03.20 03:18:00 - [50] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: yeah. light frames need to receive a huge speed penalty from plates, to the point where you'll be faster running assault. Maybe add a dampening nerf as well. But then you would also need to reduce ferroscale cpu/pg costs to make them viable for g/a scouts to use to gain small amounts of HP LEAVE MY ******* DAMPENERS ALONE THIS IS ABOUT EHP NOT DAMPENERS THERE WELL BALANCED WE DONT NEED YOU GUYS MESSIN WITH EM! Caldari Loyalist I speak for the rabbits

Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1547	Posted - 2014.03.20 03:20:00 - [51] - Quote So somehow plate stacking gal scouts have more ehp than plate stacking gal med frames? That sounds like a load of bull. "Always fight dirty, the victor writes history" Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
Lightning xVx R 0 N 1 N 442	Posted - 2014.03.20 03:20:00 - [52] - Quote CCP, LOOK AT THIS THREAD!!!!
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1091	Posted - 2014.03.20 03:24:00 - [53] - Quote Hakyou Brutor wrote: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/1329 a¦á_a¦á Have fun moving at the speed of a heavy and showing up on every other scouts radar Breach shotgun to the back of the head
Llast 326 An Arkhos 2489	Posted - 2014.03.20 03:25:00 - [54] - Quote I don't want to get to far into commenting on this until I have a real feel for what can be accomplished in the new dynamic, but a couple of things stand out already that should be addressed The Gal scout rep bonus is to high a 2/sec rep would be fine The seemingly random buff to Stamina regen on the Min scout should be dropped from 60 to 45 I think the Cal scout is in a good place right now since the precision change to 40 The Amarr needs a more significant distinction in Stamina, and perhaps more fitting ability to make it more versatile I have never run an Assault so I have no experience in this area, but I think that they need something to increase desirability and function. A CPU/PG buff may be the way to go. Would a second grenade slot be way out of line, considering the lowered amount carried? I know on one hand this counters the nerf to grenades, but it would give the ability to fit multiple types for versatility. (counterpoint: Grenade Spam) Certainly people who have more experience at assaulting would have better ideas than me on this. KRRROOOOOOM
DJINN Marauder Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4652	Posted - 2014.03.20 03:26:00 - [55] - Quote Vermaak Doe wrote: So somehow plate stacking gal scouts have more ehp than plate stacking gal med frames? That sounds like a load of bull. It does not have more EHP than a stacking medium, but it has more equipment, more speed, more stamina, more dampening, more scan radius and scan Prescision. Definetly worth the extra 100hp a medium would of had GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 5 \| Warframe is awesome! \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
Lightning xVx R 0 N 1 N 442	Posted - 2014.03.20 03:27:00 - [56] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Hakyou Brutor wrote: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/1329 a¦á_a¦á Have fun moving at the speed of a heavy and showing up on every other scouts radar Breach shotgun to the back of the head Even with all core skills up max 5 to dampeners, precisions and ranges. (passive) that's still a deadly suit that is invisible and still fast.
DJINN Marauder Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4654	Posted - 2014.03.20 03:31:00 - [57] - Quote Hakyou Brutor wrote: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/1329 a¦á_a¦á This is scarier - http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/181/1170 GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 5 \| Warframe is awesome! \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1091	Posted - 2014.03.20 03:32:00 - [58] - Quote Lightning xVx wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Hakyou Brutor wrote: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/1329 a¦á_a¦á Have fun moving at the speed of a heavy and showing up on every other scouts radar Breach shotgun to the back of the head Even with all core skills up max 5 to dampeners, precisions and ranges. (passive) that's still a deadly suit that is invisible and still fast. Its not invisible to any of my scout fittings, and thats not fast at all
Lightning xVx R 0 N 1 N 442	Posted - 2014.03.20 03:33:00 - [59] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: Hakyou Brutor wrote: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/1329 a¦á_a¦á This is scarier - http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/181/1170 -_____-
DJINN Marauder Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4654	Posted - 2014.03.20 03:34:00 - [60] - Quote Eric Del Carlo wrote: I think a simple solution would be to simply add a severe penalty once a person fitting a scout puts more than one armor mod, perhaps say 50% effectiveness on the 2nd mod, then 25% effective on the third; it would ultimately discourage one from tanking a scout suit into an assault suit. None of the true scouts deserve to have the suits themselves nerfed because tourists will abuse the suit's ability to tank like crazy. I think this solution would be the best, because you'll still be able to gain a little survivability without going overboard. Would these also affect ferroscale and reactive plates? I'd be better with it if it only affected regular plates. Although then the reactive and ferroscale plates would need a serious drop in CPU/PG because they are a *** to fit. GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 5** \| Warframe is awesome! \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY



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