DUST Search - Balancing Mediums and Scouts. CCP Read this please.

Cotsy8 wrote:

Lightning xVx wrote:

Over the last month I have seen nothing but Armor stacking Scouts pulling 500-600+ eHP for almost every match that I go into. I have see players use Proto Boundless CR & RR, Proto Scanners and an abundance of Armor plates with hardly any penalties. This month has been nothing but frustrating to say the least and that it doesn't even make ANY sense to run a Scout suit when you can just put that health/ weapons on a Medium. CCP, you need to make it where its more of a penalty for light suits to tank THAT much health, because whats the point in running a medium suit when you can just do Scouts? More upgrades for Biotics, more penalty for Armor.

Think 1.8 Amarr scouts will be any better. They can stack some serious serious armor at no loss to speed and a cloak, potentially very dangerous set up.

The game is designed that players will use what works the best, if tanks can use 3 hardeners and Gal Sents will be 1400 eHP why cant scouts make the most of what is available to them? Just because its not how you see a scout doesnt mean its a wrong set up to use. Speed and eHP is a nice combination only to me made deadlier in 1.8

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Lightning xVx R 0 N 1 N 425	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:11:00 - [1] - Quote Over the last month I have seen nothing but Armor stacking Scouts pulling 500-600+ eHP for almost every match that I go into. I have see players use Proto Boundless CR & RR, Proto Scanners and an abundance of Armor plates with hardly any penalties. This month has been nothing but frustrating to say the least and that it doesn't even make ANY sense to run a Scout suit when you can just put that health/ weapons on a Medium. CCP, you need to make it where its more of a penalty for light suits to tank THAT much health, because whats the point in running a medium suit when you can just do Scouts? More upgrades for Biotics, more penalty for Armor.
Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1906	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:13:00 - [2] - Quote I'm fine with that click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 213	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:13:00 - [3] - Quote yeah. light frames need to receive a huge speed penalty from plates, to the point where you'll be faster running assault. Maybe add a dampening nerf as well. But then you would also need to reduce ferroscale cpu/pg costs to make them viable for g/a scouts to use to gain small amounts of HP Kills-Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Lightning xVx R 0 N 1 N 425	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:17:00 - [4] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: yeah. light frames need to receive a huge speed penalty from plates, to the point where you'll be faster running assault. Maybe add a dampening nerf as well. But then you would also need to reduce ferroscale cpu/pg costs to make them viable for g/a scouts to use to gain small amounts of HP I know Scouts are going to be big come 1.8, but you can't just make a Scout suit outclass a Medium? Then there would be NO POINT in even running one. It needs to be balanced in a hotfix, PRONTO before or during 1.8. Or else you will see a **** ton of Scouts armor stacking; being completely invisible on radar and on screen.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3205	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:19:00 - [5] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: yeah. light frames need to receive a huge speed penalty from plates, to the point where you'll be faster running assault. Maybe add a dampening nerf as well. But then you would also need to reduce ferroscale cpu/pg costs to make them viable for g/a scouts to use to gain small amounts of HP Give certain suits bonus to negate movement penalties and increase the movement penalty to plates ML Director Eve Toon - Raylan Scott Level 3 Forum Warrior
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3205	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:22:00 - [6] - Quote Lightning xVx wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: yeah. light frames need to receive a huge speed penalty from plates, to the point where you'll be faster running assault. Maybe add a dampening nerf as well. But then you would also need to reduce ferroscale cpu/pg costs to make them viable for g/a scouts to use to gain small amounts of HP I know Scouts are going to be big come 1.8, but you can't just make a Scout suit outclass a Medium? Then there would be NO POINT in even running one. It needs to be balanced in a hotfix, PRONTO before or during 1.8. Or else you will see a ** ton of Scouts armor stacking; being completely invisible on radar and on screen. I will be focusing more on scan precision warfare and speed. There will certainly be armor stacked scouts, but there are cons to that setup as well. I see your point, but there are going to be many ways to skin a cat in 1.8. I think the days of packing on as much HP are over. Perhaps I'm too optimistic. ML Director Eve Toon - Raylan Scott Level 3 Forum Warrior**
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 213	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:32:00 - [7] - Quote Lightning xVx wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: yeah. light frames need to receive a huge speed penalty from plates, to the point where you'll be faster running assault. Maybe add a dampening nerf as well. But then you would also need to reduce ferroscale cpu/pg costs to make them viable for g/a scouts to use to gain small amounts of HP I know Scouts are going to be big come 1.8, but you can't just make a Scout suit outclass a Medium? Then there would be NO POINT in even running one. It needs to be balanced in a hotfix, PRONTO before or during 1.8. Or else you will see a **** ton of Scouts armor stacking; being completely invisible on radar and on screen. maybe plates make you more visible while cloaked as well? Kills-Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1090	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:37:00 - [8] - Quote Or we could just buff mediums Tanked scouts wont stand a chance against smart ewar scouts
Lightning xVx R 0 N 1 N 433	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:39:00 - [9] - Quote For plates I was thinking more of if you wear them it decreases even more of your movement/strafe/crouching/sprinting for anything over Advanced because it's primarily used for Mediums or Heavies. But what scares me is seeing those same Scouts with that much health running gallente because they already have armor reps and if you stack those with reactive plates its going to be a recipe for disaster.....
One Eyed King Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 698	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:40:00 - [10] - Quote What if the stacking penalty and/or speed penalty were more severe for scouts? That would still enable some shield and armor additions without allowing it to get out of control. Just a thought. Looking for the scout hangout?

Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 215	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:41:00 - [11] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Or we could just buff mediums Tanked scouts wont stand a chance against smart ewar scouts no. mediums are fine atm, scouts just need to be scouts, not some 900 hp gallente with a rifle Kills-Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
DJINN Marauder Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4646	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:41:00 - [12] - Quote Nooooo! How else will my amarr scout be viable if I'm not attaining 600+ hp?! GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 5 \| Warframe is awesome! \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
Lightning xVx R 0 N 1 N 433	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:42:00 - [13] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Or we could just buff mediums Tanked scouts wont stand a chance against smart ewar scouts no. mediums are fine atm, scouts just need to be scouts, not some 900 hp gallente with a rifle That's is what I'm saying!
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 215	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:42:00 - [14] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: Nooooo! How else will my amarr scout be viable if I'm not attaining 600+ hp?! amarr scout-3 kc, 1 damp, 2 extenders Kills-Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
DJINN Marauder Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4646	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:44:00 - [15] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: DJINN Marauder wrote: Nooooo! How else will my amarr scout be viable if I'm not attaining 600+ hp?! amarr scout-3 kc, 1 damp, 2 extenders No armor reps? GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 5 \| Warframe is awesome! \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
jace silencerww D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 13	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:44:00 - [16] - Quote LOL just wait the GAL scout is going to be a beast. think armor tanking scout with a passive self rep of 3 look at lokk the gal suit they all are getting self rep here are the rep rate. (remember this is passive build into the suit) heavies/commando reps 1, assaults/logis reps 2, scout reps 3.
Lightning xVx R 0 N 1 N 433	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:44:00 - [17] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: Nooooo! How else will my amarr scout be viable if I'm not attaining 600+ hp?! And I understand where your coming from Marauder...but you gotta understand is that, once you put that much health it should ultimately make you JUST AS SLOW as a medium. So the more tankier the slower on all categories. Kinda like how it was for heavies to turn speed back a few builds ago. The more health you have on you, the more the burden is. Like in Skyrim or Demons/Dark Souls. Tankier=Health : Light=Squisher but faster.
ALPHA DECRIPTER Dragon-Empire 847	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:45:00 - [18] - Quote You want scouts to be scouts and mids to be mids? Yea that's ok with me. +1 Scout Tactician Dance puppets, DANCE!
Scout Registry Nos Nothi 1640	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:46:00 - [19] - Quote Lightning xVx wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: yeah. light frames need to receive a huge speed penalty from plates, to the point where you'll be faster running assault. Maybe add a dampening nerf as well. But then you would also need to reduce ferroscale cpu/pg costs to make them viable for g/a scouts to use to gain small amounts of HP I know Scouts are going to be big come 1.8, but you can't just make a Scout suit outclass a Medium? Then there would be NO POINT in even running one. It needs to be balanced in a hotfix, PRONTO before or during 1.8. Or else you will see a **** ton of Scouts armor stacking; being completely invisible on radar and on screen. Outcome A - Suits are balanced. Folks stick to what they know. Nothing happens. Outcome B - Scouts and Heavies are OP. Everyone skills into 'em then they get nerfed. Outcome C - Scouts and Heavies are OP. Everyone skills into 'em, then CCP buffs Med Frames. Think we'll get another Respec anytime soon? I say let them come. It's Tourist Season.
Lightning xVx R 0 N 1 N 433	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:46:00 - [20] - Quote jace silencerww wrote: LOL just wait the GAL scout is going to be a beast. think armor tanking scout with a passive self rep of 3 look at lokk the gal suit they all are getting self rep here are the rep rate. (remember this is passive build into the suit) heavies/commando reps 1, assaults/logis reps 2, scout reps 3. This is why the Gallente Scout will be incredibly the strongest Scout. ON ALL CATEGORIES OF SCOUT.

Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1091	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:46:00 - [21] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Or we could just buff mediums Tanked scouts wont stand a chance against smart ewar scouts no. mediums are fine atm, scouts just need to be scouts, not some 900 hp gallente with a rifle Mediums are not fine. Everything is better than mediums. And non tanked scouts will be much more powerful.
jace silencerww D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 13	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:47:00 - [22] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: DJINN Marauder wrote: Nooooo! How else will my amarr scout be viable if I'm not attaining 600+ hp?! amarr scout-3 kc, 1 damp, 2 extenders No armor reps? lol read my earlier post
Lightning xVx R 0 N 1 N 433	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:48:00 - [23] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: Lightning xVx wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: yeah. light frames need to receive a huge speed penalty from plates, to the point where you'll be faster running assault. Maybe add a dampening nerf as well. But then you would also need to reduce ferroscale cpu/pg costs to make them viable for g/a scouts to use to gain small amounts of HP I know Scouts are going to be big come 1.8, but you can't just make a Scout suit outclass a Medium? Then there would be NO POINT in even running one. It needs to be balanced in a hotfix, PRONTO before or during 1.8. Or else you will see a **** ton of Scouts armor stacking; being completely invisible on radar and on screen. Outcome A - Suits are balanced. Folks stick to what they know. Nothing happens. Outcome B - Scouts and Heavies are OP. Everyone skills into 'em then they get nerfed. Outcome C - Scouts and Heavies are OP. Everyone skills into 'em, then CCP buffs Med Frames. Think we'll get another Respec anytime soon? I say let them come and sink their SP. It's Tourist Season. I believe it might be outcome B & C....that's what worries me.
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 1785	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:48:00 - [24] - Quote You can dodge basic scanners with proto Scout and have health so um while it does defeat the purpose of the Scout suit, the whole point of the game is to be able to fit any suit however you want. The current speed penalty is enough. Good scouts don't need any rifles or health buffers to survive.
DJINN Marauder Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4646	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:49:00 - [25] - Quote Lightning xVx wrote: DJINN Marauder wrote: Nooooo! How else will my amarr scout be viable if I'm not attaining 600+ hp?! And I understand where your coming from Marauder...but you gotta understand is that, once you put that much health it should ultimately make you JUST AS SLOW as a medium. So the more tankier the slower on all categories. Kinda like how it was for heavies to turn speed back a few builds ago. The more health you have on you, the more the burden is. Like in Skyrim or Demons/Dark Souls. Tankier=Health : Light=Squisher but faster. Yeah but then In turn, you'd have to make it so that mediums can't reach scout speed/stamina/ whatever else. If scouts shouldn't be able to obtain a Medium Frame's normal amount of hp (at proto), then Mediums must not be able to reach a Light Frame's amount of speed and stamina and dampening and what not. GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 5 \| Warframe is awesome! \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 49	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:49:00 - [26] - Quote Lightning xVx wrote: Over the last month I have seen nothing but Armor stacking Scouts pulling 500-600+ eHP for almost every match that I go into. I have see players use Proto Boundless CR & RR, Proto Scanners and an abundance of Armor plates with hardly any penalties. This month has been nothing but frustrating to say the least and that it doesn't even make ANY sense to run a Scout suit when you can just put that health/ weapons on a Medium. CCP, you need to make it where its more of a penalty for light suits to tank THAT much health, because whats the point in running a medium suit when you can just do Scouts? More upgrades for Biotics, more penalty for Armor. Think 1.8 Amarr scouts will be any better. They can stack some serious serious armor at no loss to speed and a cloak, potentially very dangerous set up. The game is designed that players will use what works the best, if tanks can use 3 hardeners and Gal Sents will be 1400 eHP why cant scouts make the most of what is available to them? Just because its not how you see a scout doesnt mean its a wrong set up to use. Speed and eHP is a nice combination only to me made deadlier in 1.8
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 217	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:55:00 - [27] - Quote Lightning xVx wrote: jace silencerww wrote: LOL just wait the GAL scout is going to be a beast. think armor tanking scout with a passive self rep of 3 look at lokk the gal suit they all are getting self rep here are the rep rate. (remember this is passive build into the suit) heavies/commando reps 1, assaults/logis reps 2, scout reps 3. This is why the Gallente Scout will be incredibly the strongest Scout. ON ALL CATEGORIES OF SCOUT. yeah it sux that minmitar, amarr, and even caldari are outclassed by it. My suggestion would be to nerf scouts abilities to plate stack, nerf the pg on the caldari scout so that it uses pretty much just e-war mods, make shield extenders cost less pg at the same time, and more CPU as well, and just make it so that scouts can't tank armor wise. 1 plate should be fine, and 2 plates should be the limit before you are gimping urself Kills-Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Scout Registry Nos Nothi 1643	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:55:00 - [28] - Quote Lightning xVx wrote: Scout Registry wrote: Lightning xVx wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: yeah. light frames need to receive a huge speed penalty from plates, to the point where you'll be faster running assault. Maybe add a dampening nerf as well. But then you would also need to reduce ferroscale cpu/pg costs to make them viable for g/a scouts to use to gain small amounts of HP I know Scouts are going to be big come 1.8, but you can't just make a Scout suit outclass a Medium? Then there would be NO POINT in even running one. It needs to be balanced in a hotfix, PRONTO before or during 1.8. Or else you will see a ** ton of Scouts armor stacking; being completely invisible on radar and on screen. Outcome A - Suits are balanced. Folks stick to what they know. Nothing happens. Outcome B - Scouts and Heavies are OP. Everyone skills into 'em then they get nerfed. Outcome C - Scouts and Heavies are OP. Everyone skills into 'em, then CCP buffs Med Frames. Think we'll get another Respec anytime soon? I say let them come and sink their SP. It's Tourist Season. I believe it might be outcome B & C....that's what worries me. Certainly possible. The good news is that the ahats who chase EZ today will detest their toys once balanced tomorrow. The more SP these clowns and tourists and "slayers" have locked in unused trees the better for everyone else.
Lightning xVx R 0 N 1 N 437	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:56:00 - [29] - Quote Cotsy8 wrote: Lightning xVx wrote: Over the last month I have seen nothing but Armor stacking Scouts pulling 500-600+ eHP for almost every match that I go into. I have see players use Proto Boundless CR & RR, Proto Scanners and an abundance of Armor plates with hardly any penalties. This month has been nothing but frustrating to say the least and that it doesn't even make ANY sense to run a Scout suit when you can just put that health/ weapons on a Medium. CCP, you need to make it where its more of a penalty for light suits to tank THAT much health, because whats the point in running a medium suit when you can just do Scouts? More upgrades for Biotics, more penalty for Armor. Think 1.8 Amarr scouts will be any better. They can stack some serious serious armor at no loss to speed and a cloak, potentially very dangerous set up. The game is designed that players will use what works the best, if tanks can use 3 hardeners and Gal Sents will be 1400 eHP why cant scouts make the most of what is available to them? Just because its not how you see a scout doesnt mean its a wrong set up to use. Speed and eHP is a nice combination only to me made deadlier in 1.8 Im not arguing with your Statement, all I'm saying is keep it logical. Scouts should have skills/ items that's more easily aligned to what they normally do and if they do more then that (armor stack), there must be penalties. And I know the Amarr Scout will be tankier but I personally will not run it like that myself, I want it for it's stamina because that's a Scout Perk.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8444	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:56:00 - [30] - Quote Cotsy8 wrote: Lightning xVx wrote: Over the last month I have seen nothing but Armor stacking Scouts pulling 500-600+ eHP for almost every match that I go into. I have see players use Proto Boundless CR & RR, Proto Scanners and an abundance of Armor plates with hardly any penalties. This month has been nothing but frustrating to say the least and that it doesn't even make ANY sense to run a Scout suit when you can just put that health/ weapons on a Medium. CCP, you need to make it where its more of a penalty for light suits to tank THAT much health, because whats the point in running a medium suit when you can just do Scouts? More upgrades for Biotics, more penalty for Armor. Think 1.8 Amarr scouts will be any better. They can stack some serious serious armor at no loss to speed and a cloak, potentially very dangerous set up. The game is designed that players will use what works the best, if tanks can use 3 hardeners and Gal Sents will be 1400 eHP why cant scouts make the most of what is available to them? Just because its not how you see a scout doesnt mean its a wrong set up to use. Speed and eHP is a nice combination only to me made deadlier in 1.8 So can Gallente, have 37 less HP, have innate +3 armour reps per second, better biotics, better bonus, and cloak. "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two



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