DUST Search - Balancing Mediums and Scouts. CCP Read this please.

Korvin Lomont wrote:

Lightning xVx wrote:

Korvin Lomont wrote:

Well I really don't see any major problems with brick tanked scouts. The will be slow, barely able to out strafe a heavy. They will lack mobility and the cloak won't help them in direct combat that much.

Personal I liked the idea of speed penalty based by frame size, this could be a good model to still allow all sandbox play will still limiting unintended fits by some way.

The funny thing is every is complaining about a gal scout with 900hp and 3hp/s selfrepair...whle no one complains about the cal scout with 50hp/s shield repair.

I am way more afraid of a cal scout than a tanked gal (or amarr scout yes they can tank just as good) sure the amount of HP will be drastically lower but he will be back with full shields in seconds, once you hit the gal scout he will have to retreat for minutes...

(unless he has logi support which would 8slow him further down, or is sitting in a rep hive what will make him an even easier target for nades or bullets)

I'm honestly not scared about the Caldari Scout (personally) because I've been getting back into Flux Grenades and the Shotgun has HIGH Alpha damage to shields. So I have my shotgun on all categories to level V, taking them down will be easy for me. Now the Armor....that's a whole different story. Both Amarr and Gallente Scout will be troublesome if they choose to go into armor tanking.

Hmm I don't know the SG will fire slower allowing to react more quickly also the cal scout will most probably know where you are. Armor makes users not only slow in movement (with double the effect to strafing) but also hinder you jumping abilities.
Also ist rather easy to out strafe a SG if you are faster moving than the SG user....

And with two regs the cal suit get get down to roughly 1.6 recharge delay or he could simply add some armor to be more resistant when his shield are down.

You mentioned the flux, sure it will strip his shield but when he uses a core you are dead...

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Lightning xVx R 0 N 1 N 456	Posted - 2014.03.21 09:17:00 - [121] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Well I really don't see any major problems with brick tanked scouts. The will be slow, barely able to out strafe a heavy. They will lack mobility and the cloak won't help them in direct combat that much. Personal I liked the idea of speed penalty based by frame size, this could be a good model to still allow all sandbox play will still limiting unintended fits by some way. The funny thing is every is complaining about a gal scout with 900hp and 3hp/s selfrepair...whle no one complains about the cal scout with 50hp/s shield repair. I am way more afraid of a cal scout than a tanked gal (or amarr scout yes they can tank just as good) sure the amount of HP will be drastically lower but he will be back with full shields in seconds, once you hit the gal scout he will have to retreat for minutes... (unless he has logi support which would 8slow him further down, or is sitting in a rep hive what will make him an even easier target for nades or bullets) I'm honestly not scared about the Caldari Scout (personally) because I've been getting back into Flux Grenades and the Shotgun has HIGH Alpha damage to shields. So I have my shotgun on all categories to level V, taking them down will be easy for me. Now the Armor....that's a whole different story. Both Amarr and Gallente Scout will be troublesome if they choose to go into armor tanking.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 793	Posted - 2014.03.21 11:43:00 - [122] - Quote Lightning xVx wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: Well I really don't see any major problems with brick tanked scouts. The will be slow, barely able to out strafe a heavy. They will lack mobility and the cloak won't help them in direct combat that much. Personal I liked the idea of speed penalty based by frame size, this could be a good model to still allow all sandbox play will still limiting unintended fits by some way. The funny thing is every is complaining about a gal scout with 900hp and 3hp/s selfrepair...whle no one complains about the cal scout with 50hp/s shield repair. I am way more afraid of a cal scout than a tanked gal (or amarr scout yes they can tank just as good) sure the amount of HP will be drastically lower but he will be back with full shields in seconds, once you hit the gal scout he will have to retreat for minutes... (unless he has logi support which would 8slow him further down, or is sitting in a rep hive what will make him an even easier target for nades or bullets) I'm honestly not scared about the Caldari Scout (personally) because I've been getting back into Flux Grenades and the Shotgun has HIGH Alpha damage to shields. So I have my shotgun on all categories to level V, taking them down will be easy for me. Now the Armor....that's a whole different story. Both Amarr and Gallente Scout will be troublesome if they choose to go into armor tanking. Hmm I don't know the SG will fire slower allowing to react more quickly also the cal scout will most probably know where you are. Armor makes users not only slow in movement (with double the effect to strafing) but also hinder you jumping abilities. Also ist rather easy to out strafe a SG if you are faster moving than the SG user.... And with two regs the cal suit get get down to roughly 1.6 recharge delay or he could simply add some armor to be more resistant when his shield are down. You mentioned the flux, sure it will strip his shield but when he uses a core you are dead...
Sgt Buttscratch R 0 N 1 N 2077	Posted - 2014.03.21 12:51:00 - [123] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Well I really don't see any major problems with brick tanked scouts. The will be slow, barely able to out strafe a heavy. They will lack mobility and the cloak won't help them in direct combat that much. Personal I liked the idea of speed penalty based by frame size, this could be a good model to still allow all sandbox play will still limiting unintended fits by some way. The funny thing is every is complaining about a gal scout with 900hp and 3hp/s selfrepair...whle no one complains about the cal scout with 50hp/s shield repair. I am way more afraid of a cal scout than a tanked gal (or amarr scout yes they can tank just as good) sure the amount of HP will be drastically lower but he will be back with full shields in seconds, once you hit the gal scout he will have to retreat for minutes... (unless he has logi support which would 8slow him further down, or is sitting in a rep hive what will make him an even easier target for nades or bullets) You can still move due to stamina pool, not as slow as you want to believe. As for the cloak, thats not about direct combat, thats 989hp(1.8 gallente) scout appearing with you off guard with a boundless combat rifle. Cal shield issue wold sound bad if shield regened whilst taking damage. I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
Lightning xVx R 0 N 1 N 456	Posted - 2014.03.21 13:03:00 - [124] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Lightning xVx wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: Well I really don't see any major problems with brick tanked scouts. The will be slow, barely able to out strafe a heavy. They will lack mobility and the cloak won't help them in direct combat that much. Personal I liked the idea of speed penalty based by frame size, this could be a good model to still allow all sandbox play will still limiting unintended fits by some way. The funny thing is every is complaining about a gal scout with 900hp and 3hp/s selfrepair...whle no one complains about the cal scout with 50hp/s shield repair. I am way more afraid of a cal scout than a tanked gal (or amarr scout yes they can tank just as good) sure the amount of HP will be drastically lower but he will be back with full shields in seconds, once you hit the gal scout he will have to retreat for minutes... (unless he has logi support which would 8slow him further down, or is sitting in a rep hive what will make him an even easier target for nades or bullets) I'm honestly not scared about the Caldari Scout (personally) because I've been getting back into Flux Grenades and the Shotgun has HIGH Alpha damage to shields. So I have my shotgun on all categories to level V, taking them down will be easy for me. Now the Armor....that's a whole different story. Both Amarr and Gallente Scout will be troublesome if they choose to go into armor tanking. Hmm I don't know the SG will fire slower allowing to react more quickly also the cal scout will most probably know where you are. Armor makes users not only slow in movement (with double the effect to strafing) but also hinder you jumping abilities. Also ist rather easy to out strafe a SG if you are faster moving than the SG user.... And with two regs the cal suit get get down to roughly 1.6 recharge delay or he could simply add some armor to be more resistant when his shield are down. You mentioned the flux, sure it will strip his shield but when he uses a core you are dead... While that may be true... You do realize I'm running above 10.38, so he or she would actually have to catch me first which is rare.
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 25	Posted - 2014.03.21 13:13:00 - [125] - Quote I don't think armor tanked scouts will be much better than assaults come 1.8 but I agree it would be a shame if these assault-scouts became FOTM. Looking at Protofits there isn't much difference really. Assaults always get more hp and can fit weapons more easily. Scouts can fit equipment better and have speed(marginal)/regen/scan/stealth advantages. Possible solutions I like (that I didn't come up with): Slightly improve assault suits. Did I hear CCP were "rebalancing" assaults soon? Maybe a little more hp/speed/regen. Slightly increase plate speed penalty for lighter suits. Swap hp regen for assaults and scouts, or maybe just give them the same somewhere in the middle. I would wait to see what CCP are doing with assaults though before anything. I know power creep is bad but I really don't think armor assault-scouts will be very OP, if at all.
Ivy Zalinto Bobbit's Hangmen 336	Posted - 2014.03.21 14:50:00 - [126] - Quote I can already push 500+ hp with a proto scout...its really not worth it though. The extra armor and dropped mobility make this a rather weak setup. Dedicated Stealth Scout. Scout instructor; Learning Coalition Sidearms are terribly underestimated.
Sgt Buttscratch R 0 N 1 N 2077	Posted - 2014.03.21 19:19:00 - [127] - Quote Ivy Zalinto wrote: I can already push 500+ hp with a proto scout...its really not worth it though. The extra armor and dropped mobility make this a rather weak setup. 916hp is current top gallente scout. 989HP is 1.8 Gal scout, I believe the biible bashing version will et over 1k HP. I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
Ivy Zalinto Bobbit's Hangmen 337	Posted - 2014.03.22 03:09:00 - [128] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: Ivy Zalinto wrote: I can already push 500+ hp with a proto scout...its really not worth it though. The extra armor and dropped mobility make this a rather weak setup. 916hp is current top gallente scout. 989HP is 1.8 Gal scout, I believe the biible bashing version will et over 1k HP. But they would just be a skinny medium at that point, sacrificing all their ewar. Youd do better at that point with a slightly dampened medium suit of any kind. Dedicated Stealth Scout. Scout instructor; Learning Coalition Sidearms are terribly underestimated.
Lightning xVx R 0 N 1 N 471	Posted - 2014.03.26 15:37:00 - [129] - Quote CCP told ya.
X7 lion SWAMPERIUM 137	Posted - 2014.03.26 21:49:00 - [130] - Quote so many complaints about this but scouts could already do it, you guys are just noticing now, stop your whining the balance issue comes from the assault suits no the scouts all things considered the next big look at suits will look at assault suits I am death incarnate, you will not see me or hear me. You shall only feel the strike of my blade.

deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 649	Posted - 2014.04.10 14:59:00 - [131] - Quote my solution is the link in my signature It'll help define roles, i promise:)
CRNWLLC Screwy Rabbit ULC 186	Posted - 2014.04.10 16:42:00 - [132] - Quote My thoughts on the scout/assault disparity, here, here, and here. My thoughts on why cloaks worsen the situation, and what to do about it, can be found here. My other dropsuit is a Python.
Fristname Family name The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 75	Posted - 2014.04.11 09:46:00 - [133] - Quote Lightning xVx wrote: Over the last month I have seen nothing but Armor stacking Scouts pulling 500-600+ eHP for almost every match that I go into. I have see players use Proto Boundless CR & RR, Proto Scanners and an abundance of Armor plates with hardly any penalties. This month has been nothing but frustrating to say the least and that it doesn't even make ANY sense to run a Scout suit when you can just put that health/ weapons on a Medium. CCP, you need to make it where its more of a penalty for light suits to tank THAT much health, because whats the point in running a medium suit when you can just do Scouts? More upgrades for Biotics, more penalty for Armor. Ok well... hmm where to start? 1. You shall not can not will not nerf my gal scout nor my minja. I agree I see scouts that have way too much hp. The salution is not to nerf my slots. Maybe hmmm I have no idea how to solve this but my gal scout has always had 1 reactive plate and no more hp mods ( the rest of my mods are secret ) with the new bonus I run 2 complex sheild extenders and sometimes 1complex 1 basic ( giving me about 240ish sheild I think and about 120armour ) now no matter what minja gets no nerf ever only buffs. The cal scout needs only percision bonus. I geuss the only way is to nerf pg/cpu on scout or to buff all scout bonuses by abit then take a slot away. Well I have made a completely useless post :D Australian mercy worky.
Lightning xVx R 0 N 1 N 564	Posted - 2014.04.11 12:02:00 - [134] - Quote Fristname Family name wrote: Lightning xVx wrote: Over the last month I have seen nothing but Armor stacking Scouts pulling 500-600+ eHP for almost every match that I go into. I have see players use Proto Boundless CR & RR, Proto Scanners and an abundance of Armor plates with hardly any penalties. This month has been nothing but frustrating to say the least and that it doesn't even make ANY sense to run a Scout suit when you can just put that health/ weapons on a Medium. CCP, you need to make it where its more of a penalty for light suits to tank THAT much health, because whats the point in running a medium suit when you can just do Scouts? More upgrades for Biotics, more penalty for Armor. Ok well... hmm where to start? 1. You shall not can not will not nerf my gal scout nor my minja. I agree I see scouts that have way too much hp. The salution is not to nerf my slots. Maybe hmmm I have no idea how to solve this but my gal scout has always had 1 reactive plate and no more hp mods ( the rest of my mods are secret ) with the new bonus I run 2 complex sheild extenders and sometimes 1complex 1 basic ( giving me about 240ish sheild I think and about 120armour ) now no matter what minja gets no nerf ever only buffs. The cal scout needs only percision bonus. I geuss the only way is to nerf pg/cpu on scout or to buff all scout bonuses by abit then take a slot away. Well I have made a completely useless post :D If you actually hear what I say it is NOT TO NERF THE SCOUT SUIT. There should be tweaking for this because at this point in time it COMPLETELY OUTCLASSES MEDIUM SUITS, if this was not true then why are so many mediums running Scouts now? Point proven. The Caldari Scout has incredibly high Precisions (as it should) BUT at the same time it's far superior to the others in regards to it's not being used for long distance combat, it's used to camp objectives or hunt nearby people. And the Gallente Scout completely outclasses ALL SCOUTS, it has Armor Reps built it, huge dampening (you can stack one complex damp/cloak and your off the radar of everyone including a Caldari scout), Armor stack with no huge penalty to speed and still has high E-WAR bonuses just like Caldari. I also made in my other thread about camping Scouts on objectives with no penalty: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2033592#post2033592 And again DO NOT NERF THE SCOUTS, just tweak.
Lightning xVx R 0 N 1 N 564	Posted - 2014.04.11 12:28:00 - [135] - Quote Proves my point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nZGKR2URK0&feature=youtu.be Watch it at 11-12 minutes in
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 879	Posted - 2014.04.11 19:56:00 - [136] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: yeah. light frames need to receive a huge speed penalty from plates, to the point where you'll be faster running assault. Maybe add a dampening nerf as well. But then you would also need to reduce ferroscale cpu/pg costs to make them viable for g/a scouts to use to gain small amounts of HP Give certain suits bonus to negate movement penalties and increase the movement penalty to plates Great call, Thor. Heavy suits get mvmt penalties cut by 50% Mediums get current listed movement penalty Lights get 50% more movement penalty per plate That would be a really sharp way to even things out and if the CPU/PG were tweaked a bit on Ferroscale and Reactive plates make them much more viable. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Smooth Assassin Stardust Incorporation IMMORTAL REGIME 1198	Posted - 2014.04.11 19:58:00 - [137] - Quote Agreed. The percentage penalty for armor plates on scouts is just too low. *Assassination is my thing.*
Fristname Family name The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 75	Posted - 2014.04.12 23:08:00 - [138] - Quote Eric Del Carlo wrote: I think a simple solution would be to simply add a severe penalty once a person fitting a scout puts more than one armor mod, perhaps say 50% effectiveness on the 2nd mod, then 25% effective on the third; it would ultimately discourage one from tanking a scout suit into an assault suit. None of the true scouts deserve to have the suits themselves nerfed because tourists will abuse the suit's ability to tank like crazy. I think this solution would be the best, because you'll still be able to gain a little survivability without going overboard. Ok well if this ha9pens and it effects my heavy im UNSUBSCRIBED AND I WILL HATE YOU. Because anyone who gets my heavy stuff nerfed (or my mods ) deserves to die. Australian mercy worky.
Lightning xVx R 0 N 1 N 567	Posted - 2014.04.13 04:23:00 - [139] - Quote Fristname Family name wrote: Eric Del Carlo wrote: I think a simple solution would be to simply add a severe penalty once a person fitting a scout puts more than one armor mod, perhaps say 50% effectiveness on the 2nd mod, then 25% effective on the third; it would ultimately discourage one from tanking a scout suit into an assault suit. None of the true scouts deserve to have the suits themselves nerfed because tourists will abuse the suit's ability to tank like crazy. I think this solution would be the best, because you'll still be able to gain a little survivability without going overboard. Ok well if this ha9pens and it effects my heavy im UNSUBSCRIBED AND I WILL HATE YOU. Because anyone who gets my heavy stuff nerfed (or my mods ) deserves to die. I think I know what he's talking about where the Scout SHOULD NOT be able to outclass the medium suit. Because there is no penalty for stacking Armor like that, for me personally I feel like anything passed Basic Armor plates is pushing it and should start seeing a higher percentages of penalties. And we are talking about EQUAL Balance Frist, if you're not satisfied with this thread and have no constructive criticism to help CCP with, then leave.
Lightning xVx R 0 N 1 N 567	Posted - 2014.04.13 05:21:00 - [140] - Quote Bump

Dunce Masterson Savage Bullet 82	Posted - 2014.04.13 06:08:00 - [141] - Quote Aarmor stacking scouts is counter productive and your tacking away from their advantage witch is speed to solve this problem the feroscale and reactive plates could have their requirements reduced and penaltys removed. This would make them more apealing and maby the brick tanked scouts with diminish. I don't even know why I bother.
Fristname Family name The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 75	Posted - 2014.04.15 09:16:00 - [142] - Quote Any scout who tanks besides my good friend crystal I hate you and hope when ccp, ruins the scouts you will be happy because you, are truly evil. I just hope ccp can allow me to put any sp put into my good old gal scout into a minja unless you guys are gonna get the most un-nerfable parpe thin scout suit in the game nerfed to 50sheilds and 10 armour with a 1% hacking speed and, nova knife damage bonus per level, also half its pg and cpu. And if anyone even says they want that to happen, god help us all. Australian mercy worky.
Heavenly Daughter the Aurum Grinder and Company 393	Posted - 2014.04.20 18:10:00 - [143] - Quote Lightning xVx wrote: Or else you will see a **** ton of Scouts armor stacking; being completely invisible on radar. But, this is exactly what we see now. Go play a few skirm's and see just how many GA Scouts spawn in now, it's WAY above what it used to be. IF CCP would be willing (Which they won't), post numbers on scouts before and after 1.8. I'm guilty too, I never had a scout since 1.whatever, but now I have a proto GalScout from the respec. The Organ Grinder & Co. EVE Heavenly Daughter-Merc Records
CHANCEtheChAn 0uter.Heaven 65	Posted - 2014.04.20 21:19:00 - [144] - Quote Its actually pretty simple You make all 4 main rifle classes (Assault rifle, Rail rifle, Combat Rifles, Scrambler Rifle) into a medium weapon slot class Sentinel and scouts have light weapon slots instead of medium weapon slots All other classes have medium/light weapon slots now instead of just light Thus heavies stick to their short range objective cqc and heavy vehicle support (get rid of Sentinel+Rail Rifle QQ) And scouts stay needed on a team for their passive scans and speed, but lose the super slayer factor (still able to use sniper rifles, Mass drivers, Laser, sidearms etc.) And rework Amarr and Minmater racial scout bonuses to rival caldari and gallente scouts Now scouts become specialized again, but can still slay with specialized weapons and sidearms So now scouts are problems with being able to see the entire battlefield, but no longer an extreme close-mid-long range slayer threat. QQ? Hmmm. The Meta is strong with this one...
Exionous True Pros Forever 96	Posted - 2014.04.20 21:53:00 - [145] - Quote Make it where light frames receieve: Basic/Militia plates: 10% penalty on standard plates, 0% on ferroscale, 0% on reactive Enhanced: 20% penalty on standard, 0% on ferroscale, 3% on reactive Complex: 25% penalty on standard, 0% on ferroscale, 7% on reactive Please do something to stop this before the real scouts get f**ked. Because I know they will. Don't make scouts be the Flaylock of dropsuits. PC Hacker for sale -- Flat Rate 750,000 ISK -- If we win, I will give 20% of my earnings back to your corporation
demens grimwulff Heaven's Lost Property Dirt Nap Squad. 245	Posted - 2014.04.21 16:54:00 - [146] - Quote I have three proto suits... one is an assault and one is a scout... I don't play my assault because of the lack of HP (it has 400ish more than my scout), but because with the new mechanics and always invisible, near one shot kill shotgun scouts, the assault becomes more of a hindrance than the scout... Especially considering that my assault has a near useless bonus (outside of a personal use... but it has no team based bonus worth using). I play Minmatar, btw. current PC meta: scouts to scout, scouts to logo, amarr logo to uplinks, and heavies to clear the field. 4 viable suits right now... a lot less than what was viable in 1.7 (unless you declare tanks the only viable thing, but that was definitely true in pubs). As the archeology of our thought easily shows, man is an invention of recent date. And one perhaps nearing its end
Lightning xVx R 0 N 1 N 600	Posted - 2014.04.22 19:42:00 - [147] - Quote Well, I hate to say it but if nothing is balanced come DESTINY launch, I will be going to that game and selling my PS3. And this character can sit on passive til they do something about this game. The best way to hurt a Company is to hit them where it hurts, their Wallets.
Text Grant Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 377	Posted - 2014.04.22 20:22:00 - [148] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=156264&find=unread
Fristname Family name The New Age Outlaws Proficiency V. 75	Posted - 2014.04.23 10:45:00 - [149] - Quote Ccp dont bring any new **** out till you fix everything you broke. Australian mercy worky.
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 364	Posted - 2014.04.23 15:49:00 - [150] - Quote CHANCEtheChAn wrote: Its actually pretty simple You make all 4 main rifle classes (Assault rifle, Rail rifle, Combat Rifles, Scrambler Rifle) into a medium weapon slot class Sentinel and scouts have light weapon slots instead of medium weapon slots All other classes have medium/light weapon slots now instead of just light Thus heavies stick to their short range objective cqc and heavy vehicle support (get rid of Sentinel+Rail Rifle QQ) And scouts stay needed on a team for their passive scans and speed, but lose the super slayer factor (still able to use sniper rifles, Mass drivers, Laser, sidearms etc.) And rework Amarr and Minmater racial scout bonuses to rival caldari and gallente scouts Now scouts become specialized again, but can still slay with specialized weapons and sidearms So now scouts are problems with being able to see the entire battlefield, but no longer an extreme close-mid-long range slayer threat. QQ? Not bad - Weapon refund would need to occur with this though. "Shine bright like a diamond"



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