DUST Search - let's talk dust: We need proto and advanced vehicles.

All Channels

General Discussions

let's talk dust: We need proto and advanced vehicles.

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 4943	Posted - 2014.03.09 07:15:00 - [1] - Quote Before you bite my head off at least read the thread, and if you don't I'll paddle spank you in forum PvP down below later: Currently there are two types of tanks, militia and standard, this is a problem simply because there are four types of AV, militia to proto, the AV we have now as such needs to be balanced to be in line with the current vehicles causing gear that should be decimating the vehicle it's aiming at doing negligible damage, messing with the Risk-Reward factor of vehicles and AV with the later becoming for more expensive to run with the former. With ADV and PRO vehicles the AV can be adjusted to deal with the vehicles in it's class making higher meta level AV dangerous to lower meta vehicles once again, this has the side effect of making the tanker want to fit better gear to compete therefor increasing his vehicle/mod's meta level and increasing price in doing so balancing the risk/reward on that end as well. Thoughts? Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 4 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 4522	Posted - 2014.03.09 07:17:00 - [2] - Quote I disagree, we need to rid ourselves of tiers all together. Tiericide is the way of the future. Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat
noobsniper the 2nd OLDSPICE. Top Men. 248	Posted - 2014.03.09 07:18:00 - [3] - Quote No teiricide is the way to go all we need is tank variants just call me communist space king noob MAG vet raven ftw Pre 1.8 scout don't throw me in with that rift raft
xSir Campsalotx G0DS AM0NG MEN D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 135	Posted - 2014.03.09 07:18:00 - [4] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Before you bite my head off at least read the thread, and if you don't I'll paddle spank you in forum PvP down below later: Currently there are two types of tanks, militia and standard, this is a problem simply because there are four types of AV, militia to proto, the AV we have now as such needs to be balanced to be in line with the current vehicles causing gear that should be decimating the vehicle it's aiming at doing negligible damage, messing with the Risk-Reward factor of vehicles and AV with the later becoming for more expensive to run with the former. With ADV and PRO vehicles the AV can be adjusted to deal with the vehicles in it's class making higher meta level AV dangerous to lower meta vehicles once again, this has the side effect of making the tanker want to fit better gear to compete therefor increasing his vehicle/mod's meta level and increasing price in doing so balancing the risk/reward on that end as well. Thoughts? I say yay 5-10million isk for tank G0DS AM0NG MEN Director Preferred fit 1 complex damage mod, 2 mlt kin cats, basic HMG, flux grenade on a std sentinel
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 4943	Posted - 2014.03.09 07:19:00 - [5] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I disagree, we need to rid ourselves of tiers all together. Tiericide is the way of the future. Don't kid yourself, even in EvE there are T2 and T3 ships, on top of skills giving massive bonuses. Vets will still dominate simply because we've been around longer, tericide won't stop that. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 4 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 4522	Posted - 2014.03.09 07:22:00 - [6] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I disagree, we need to rid ourselves of tiers all together. Tiericide is the way of the future. Don't kid yourself, even in EvE there are T2 and T3 ships, on top of skills giving massive bonuses. Vets will still dominate simply because we've been around longer, tericide won't stop that. I simply don't like the idea that someone relies on better gear to supplement their skill. Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 4944	Posted - 2014.03.09 07:25:00 - [7] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I disagree, we need to rid ourselves of tiers all together. Tiericide is the way of the future. Don't kid yourself, even in EvE there are T2 and T3 ships, on top of skills giving massive bonuses. Vets will still dominate simply because we've been around longer, tericide won't stop that. I simply don't like the idea that someone relies on better gear to supplement their skill. It's New Eden, an MMO, improving yourself to get an upper hand is the name of the game, that's why squads exsist in Dust, it's why fleets exists in EvE, It's why we have the racial suits, and why fleet issue ships are flown. No fight is fair in New Eden and if it looks like it is, it's a ******* trap. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 4 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 4522	Posted - 2014.03.09 07:31:00 - [8] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I disagree, we need to rid ourselves of tiers all together. Tiericide is the way of the future. Don't kid yourself, even in EvE there are T2 and T3 ships, on top of skills giving massive bonuses. Vets will still dominate simply because we've been around longer, tericide won't stop that. I simply don't like the idea that someone relies on better gear to supplement their skill. It's New Eden, an MMO, improving yourself to get an upper hand is the name of the game, that's why squads exsist in Dust, it's why fleets exists in EvE, It's why we have the racial suits, and why fleet issue ships are flown. No fight is fair in New Eden and if it looks like it is, it's a ******* trap. I'm not against diversity among the types of gear used. I'am against how useful gear is by tier. In Dus, higher tiers are better in every single way vs lower tiers, while in EVE higher tiers merely mean the access of more variations. I like the idea of diversity, but detest the idea of gear which is simply better in every form to those that came before it. Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 4946	Posted - 2014.03.09 07:37:00 - [9] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I disagree, we need to rid ourselves of tiers all together. Tiericide is the way of the future. Don't kid yourself, even in EvE there are T2 and T3 ships, on top of skills giving massive bonuses. Vets will still dominate simply because we've been around longer, tericide won't stop that. I simply don't like the idea that someone relies on better gear to supplement their skill. It's New Eden, an MMO, improving yourself to get an upper hand is the name of the game, that's why squads exsist in Dust, it's why fleets exists in EvE, It's why we have the racial suits, and why fleet issue ships are flown. No fight is fair in New Eden and if it looks like it is, it's a ******* trap. I'm not against diversity among the types of gear used. I'am against how useful gear is by tier. In Dus, higher tiers are better in every single way vs lower tiers, while in EVE higher tiers merely mean the access of more variations. I like the idea of diversity, but detest the idea of gear which is simply better in every form to those that came before it. Thing is those variations tend to be much much better then their predecessors (never fight a wolf in a rifter) even the turrets in EvE have different versions that are more powerful due to being T2, along with Ammo that can only be accessed by having T2 turrets. Even the STD and ASD are leaps and bounds apart in effectiveness dust side. I get what you're saying, but the thought that tericide is going to eliminate players having better gear on their suit do to the amount of SP/ISK is up and down misguided. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 4 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 13320	Posted - 2014.03.09 09:13:00 - [10] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I disagree, we need to rid ourselves of tiers all together. Tiericide is the way of the future. Don't kid yourself, even in EvE there are T2 and T3 ships, on top of skills giving massive bonuses. Vets will still dominate simply because we've been around longer, tericide won't stop that. Cept those are tech 2 and tech 3 ships. Prototype is a meta level 4 tech 1. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked

Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 4947	Posted - 2014.03.09 09:21:00 - [11] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I disagree, we need to rid ourselves of tiers all together. Tiericide is the way of the future. Don't kid yourself, even in EvE there are T2 and T3 ships, on top of skills giving massive bonuses. Vets will still dominate simply because we've been around longer, tericide won't stop that. Cept those are tech 2 and tech 3 ships. Prototype is a meta level 4 tech 1. The thing I'm saying is everyone wants terricide cause they think it'll put all players on 'equal footing' but even in our mother game there are improved versions of our gear that can only be obtained with SP, along with the many bonuses given by said skills, so the thought of : terricide will put anyone on even ground, is a bit short sited in my opinion. The meta level isn't the point. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 4 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2005	Posted - 2014.03.09 09:38:00 - [12] - Quote I didn't read the thread, only the OP. I have to say that as much as I would love proto tanks, they would be horrifying for balance. Essentially what you're advocating is that low level vehicles are unusable thanks to high level AV near-instantaneously killing them. On the other end of the scale you have tanks that newbies are literally unable to destroy. A system like this would really only work for the veteran players, unfortunately. Assault ak.0 w/ScR+ScP 4LYFE Forum Warrior Level Two. (GëºGêçGëª)/
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 4950	Posted - 2014.03.09 09:43:00 - [13] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: I didn't read the thread, only the OP. I have to say that as much as I would love proto tanks, they would be horrifying for balance. Essentially what you're advocating is that low level vehicles are unusable thanks to high level AV near-instantaneously killing them. On the other end of the scale you have tanks that newbies are literally unable to destroy. A system like this would really only work for the veteran players, unfortunately. We need a place where only certain levels of gear are allowed I think, kinda like the mechanics in FW EvE side. Basic room: only basic ADV room: only ADV Proto room: Proto (no officer) PC: Go for it. Simple in thought not so much in practice. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 4 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 10784	Posted - 2014.03.09 09:46:00 - [14] - Quote No. Tiericide. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 400	Posted - 2014.03.09 09:54:00 - [15] - Quote Im not against adding anything to vehicles as long as they can be soloed. Militia swarm should beat a militia tank 1v1 if a militia tank can beat a proto suit 1v10 It's like saying you need three pieces of paper to cover rock but one rock can kill a whole team of scissors. There's literally no reason for everyone not to choose rock because you can't lose.
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 789	Posted - 2014.03.09 09:58:00 - [16] - Quote I'll agree to this only if Maddys/Gunnlogis are the Proto and Sica/Soma are the advanced. God knows tankers don't need even more buffs. They definitely don't need better versions with more health/slots.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2879	Posted - 2014.03.09 11:07:00 - [17] - Quote Yes we do need adv/proto vehicles Infantry will scream no and also tiercide but tiercide would mean that std tanks would have to stand upto proto AV and they do now but infantry is screaming OP on that also If we have basic/adv/proto hulls with basic/adv/proto turrets and basic/adv/proto mods its means it can be balanced with basic/adv/proto dropsuits with basic/adv/proto AV weapons and basic/adv/proto mods Infantry has proto everything, why cant pilots? double standards from infantry while they protostomp Frankly we need them but infantry keep screaming no but god forbid if we said no to proto dropsuits, there would be uproar and mass quittings on the forums and the world would end while CCP has to sticky suicide helpline numbers to GD Intelligence is OP
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 403	Posted - 2014.03.09 18:48:00 - [18] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Yes we do need adv/proto vehicles Infantry will scream no and also tiercide but tiercide would mean that std tanks would have to stand upto proto AV and they do now but infantry is screaming OP on that also If we have basic/adv/proto hulls with basic/adv/proto turrets and basic/adv/proto mods its means it can be balanced with basic/adv/proto dropsuits with basic/adv/proto AV weapons and basic/adv/proto mods Infantry has proto everything, why cant pilots? double standards from infantry while they protostomp Frankly we need them but infantry keep screaming no but god forbid if we said no to proto dropsuits, there would be uproar and mass quittings on the forums and the world would end while CCP has to sticky suicide helpline numbers to GD if there was tiericide youd have tech 1 av and tech 2 which is a specialization like enforcers or assault drop ships tanks would be tech 1 with a tech 2 role specialization.
Vulcanus Lightbringer Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 321	Posted - 2014.03.09 18:53:00 - [19] - Quote TIERICIDE!! Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Infantry has proto everything, why cant pilots? double standards from infantry while they protostomp I play infantry and I want tiericide for everything. Auris Lionesse wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Yes we do need adv/proto vehicles Infantry will scream no and also tiercide but tiercide would mean that std tanks would have to stand upto proto AV and they do now but infantry is screaming OP on that also If we have basic/adv/proto hulls with basic/adv/proto turrets and basic/adv/proto mods its means it can be balanced with basic/adv/proto dropsuits with basic/adv/proto AV weapons and basic/adv/proto mods Infantry has proto everything, why cant pilots? double standards from infantry while they protostomp Frankly we need them but infantry keep screaming no but god forbid if we said no to proto dropsuits, there would be uproar and mass quittings on the forums and the world would end while CCP has to sticky suicide helpline numbers to GD if there was tiericide youd have tech 1 av and tech 2 which is a specialization like enforcers or assault drop ships tanks would be tech 1 with a tech 2 role specialization. Like tank destroyers, artillery, APC's etc.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8046	Posted - 2014.03.09 19:22:00 - [20] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I disagree, we need to rid ourselves of tiers all together. Tiericide is the way of the future. Also this would make higher tier vehicles invincible against lower tier AV and higher tier AV would completely destroy anything that isn't high tier. The only way to remedy this would be to make the difference between militia tiers and proto tiers extremely small. Though this means that there would be almost no reason to skill into higher level AV or higher tier vehicles. That's a dangerous concept. You either achieve a nice balance or you rid the game of diversity and depth..... " ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters" - Malleus Malificorum

Mordecai Sanguine What The French 528	Posted - 2014.03.09 19:29:00 - [21] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I disagree, we need to rid ourselves of tiers all together. Tiericide is the way of the future. Also this would make higher tier vehicles invincible against lower tier AV and higher tier AV would completely destroy anything that isn't high tier. The only way to remedy this would be to make the difference between militia tiers and proto tiers extremely small. Though this means that there would be almost no reason to skill into higher level AV or higher tier vehicles. No. You want COD in space ? You buy COD in space. You want a BF in space ? You buy BF2142. In "RPGFPS" There is FPS AAAAND there is RPG. You can't "RPG" without Tier. Where's the diversity ? Where's then option of fitting ? Nah tiericide is stupid. Oh and stop lying weapons can kill a higher suit easily.... Same for AV, Basic should be able to kill PRO vehicules. (Harder). The actual PRO AV stuff should be the future STD AV. Then scale the ADV/PRO Av weaponery. (If we consider than actual tanks are STD, and the fact than 5 AV proto players can't get it down with good fitting and a real driver.)
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 4967	Posted - 2014.03.10 09:21:00 - [22] - Quote bump Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 4 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2894	Posted - 2014.03.10 10:23:00 - [23] - Quote True Adamance wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I disagree, we need to rid ourselves of tiers all together. Tiericide is the way of the future. Also this would make higher tier vehicles invincible against lower tier AV and higher tier AV would completely destroy anything that isn't high tier. The only way to remedy this would be to make the difference between militia tiers and proto tiers extremely small. Though this means that there would be almost no reason to skill into higher level AV or higher tier vehicles. That's a dangerous concept. You either achieve a nice balance or you rid the game of diversity and depth..... With adv/proto vehicles we get diversity and depth but also balance since proto can be balanced against proto Intelligence is OP
Pvt Numnutz R 0 N 1 N 884	Posted - 2014.03.10 10:43:00 - [24] - Quote We can approach this two ways, the tiered way that you are suggesting which I do like, or the variant way. With variants we would have specialized vehicles, such as the assault dropship that would require more sp to skill into and would cost more than the std chassis. I do like the tiered idea, though the variants would allow for better vehicles without gimping the std. Either way I would be happy. On a side not making them tiered would give a reason to implement the pilot suit, as currently there is no reason to make a pilot suit. With a teiered system std vehicles would need a pilot with a pilot suit and it would take multiple proto av to bring down a proto vehicle with a pilot wearing a proto pilot suit in it, the pilot needs a considerable amount of sp to achieve this of course, that sounds balanced to me.
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 650	Posted - 2014.03.10 12:16:00 - [25] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I disagree, we need to rid ourselves of tiers all together. Tiericide is the way of the future. Also this would make higher tier vehicles invincible against lower tier AV and higher tier AV would completely destroy anything that isn't high tier. The only way to remedy this would be to make the difference between militia tiers and proto tiers extremely small. Though this means that there would be almost no reason to skill into higher level AV or higher tier vehicles. Or we could focus on the tier system, but create an area for each tier to compete, on top of the current FFA that we have with pubs. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2011	Posted - 2014.03.10 12:22:00 - [26] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I disagree, we need to rid ourselves of tiers all together. Tiericide is the way of the future. Also this would make higher tier vehicles invincible against lower tier AV and higher tier AV would completely destroy anything that isn't high tier. The only way to remedy this would be to make the difference between militia tiers and proto tiers extremely small. Though this means that there would be almost no reason to skill into higher level AV or higher tier vehicles. No. You want COD in space ? You buy COD in space. You want a BF in space ? You buy BF2142. In "RPGFPS" There is FPS AAAAND there is RPG. You can't "RPG" without Tier. Where's the diversity ? Where's then option of fitting ? Nah tiericide is stupid. Oh and stop lying weapons can kill a higher suit easily.... Same for AV, Basic should be able to kill PRO vehicules. (Harder). The actual PRO AV stuff should be the future STD AV. Then scale the ADV/PRO Av weaponery. (If we consider than actual tanks are STD, and the fact than 5 AV proto players can't get it down with good fitting and a real driver.) So it should take 5 PRO AV to kill a PRO HAV? And on the other side, a PRO AV should be able to glare at an STD tank for his WP? See, this is all great and all but the only people PRO HAVs would actually help are top-level, high-SP tankers. I say no, and no. Versatility in fittings is the key. Perhaps a damage-cut durability-buffed tank to compensate for the old Enforcers (with a more significant bonus, so their DPS compensates for being glass. Assault ak.0 w/ScR+ScP 4LYFE Forum Warrior Level Two. (GëºGêçGëª)/
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2894	Posted - 2014.03.10 12:31:00 - [27] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Mordecai Sanguine wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I disagree, we need to rid ourselves of tiers all together. Tiericide is the way of the future. Also this would make higher tier vehicles invincible against lower tier AV and higher tier AV would completely destroy anything that isn't high tier. The only way to remedy this would be to make the difference between militia tiers and proto tiers extremely small. Though this means that there would be almost no reason to skill into higher level AV or higher tier vehicles. No. You want COD in space ? You buy COD in space. You want a BF in space ? You buy BF2142. In "RPGFPS" There is FPS AAAAND there is RPG. You can't "RPG" without Tier. Where's the diversity ? Where's then option of fitting ? Nah tiericide is stupid. Oh and stop lying weapons can kill a higher suit easily.... Same for AV, Basic should be able to kill PRO vehicules. (Harder). The actual PRO AV stuff should be the future STD AV. Then scale the ADV/PRO Av weaponery. (If we consider than actual tanks are STD, and the fact than 5 AV proto players can't get it down with good fitting and a real driver.) So it should take 5 PRO AV to kill a PRO HAV? And on the other side, a PRO AV should be able to glare at an STD tank for his WP? See, this is all great and all but the only people PRO HAVs would actually help are top-level, high-SP tankers. I say no, and no. Versatility in fittings is the key. Perhaps a damage-cut durability-buffed tank to compensate for the old Enforcers (with a more significant bonus, so their DPS compensates for being glass. See, this is all great and all but the only people PRO DROPSUITS would actually help are top-level high-SP infantry It goes both ways Infantry have PROTO everything all vehicles are missing is the adv/proto hulls and after that everything can be balanced with each other Intelligence is OP
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 3071	Posted - 2014.03.10 13:25:00 - [28] - Quote I say bring 'em on. Balance PROvPRO, MLTvMLT, etc. Then, establish 2 tiers of game modes - 1 for MLT-ADV and 1 Unrestricted Collective Meta Level (Collective Meta Level = combined total Meta Levels from suit, weapons, equipment) The eligibility for the lower tier would be for dropsuits and vehicles built with a Collective Meta of 10 (just an example #), creating a bracket for lower skill players. The second tier would be focused on ADV-Officer classes. No Collective Meta restrictions, but a warning that you are entering fire and brimstone otherwise. All players would be able to compete at either level. In the lower tier, Vets could build ISK efficient fittings and put their actual gun game to the test against the noobs and the noobs wouldn't be so desperately outclassed by gear alone. On the other hand, noobs with huge egos could test their mettle and the state of their fittings against the vets in the upper tier. This could be easily implemented with the systems we already have in place and not exclude any one particular part of the playerbase. I GÖú Kittens.
Denn Maell PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 172	Posted - 2014.03.10 13:50:00 - [29] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I disagree, we need to rid ourselves of tiers all together. Tiericide is the way of the future. Also this would make higher tier vehicles invincible against lower tier AV and higher tier AV would completely destroy anything that isn't high tier. The only way to remedy this would be to make the difference between militia tiers and proto tiers extremely small. Though this means that there would be almost no reason to skill into higher level AV or higher tier vehicles. No. You want COD in space ? You buy COD in space. You want a BF in space ? You buy BF2142. In "RPGFPS" There is FPS AAAAND there is RPG. You can't "RPG" without Tier. Where's the diversity ? Where's then option of fitting ? Nah tiericide is stupid. Oh and stop lying weapons can kill a higher suit easily.... Same for AV, Basic should be able to kill PRO vehicules. (Harder). The actual PRO AV stuff should be the future STD AV. Then scale the ADV/PRO Av weaponery. (If we consider than actual tanks are STD, and the fact than 5 AV pro to players can't get it down with good fitting and a real driver.) And here we come to the root of the balancing issues: Dust514's identity crisis. CCP wanted to make a MMO RPG FPS. 1. AAA Shooter where accuracy and skill (and lagGÇª) matter more than the price tag of your suit and gear. An exciting visceral experience where competition between players was challenging and rewarding. 2. A MMORPG where players begin developing their character and unlocking newer and newer gear as a reward for playing more. Both of these games can be and are fun, but they might not be able to exist simultaneously. The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field: One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 546	Posted - 2014.03.10 13:59:00 - [30] - Quote It seems to me that DUST's suit / vehicle selection (analogous to EVE's ship selection) incorrectly focuses on depth rather than width. EVE has an extremely wide ship selection. Racial Frigate 1 will unlock 6 frigates of that respective race. Slighty more skilling into Frigate skills will unlock more potent Navy and Pirate frigates, and much more skilling into Frigate and other support skills will unlock access to T2 ships. To improve your ship you level up your skills. EVE's ships selection is rather shallow, though. The progression (from SP invested) is T1 -> Navy / Pirate -> T2. The selection is wide because there are man frigates to choose from. In contrast, DUST has an fairly deep selection of suits / vehicles. The system progress from MLT to PRO, and you unlock them by leveling up skills. Cost aside, higher tiers are strictly better than lower. DUST's ship selection is very narrow though. Skilling into the respective light suit skill only unlocks one light suit. Skilling into the respective Scout skill only unlocks on light suit. This is another case where DUST needs to be more like EVE. DUST needs more width (add more suits / vehicles of each size that fill roles similar to EVE) and less depth (get rid of tiers; there are no meta variants of ships, only T1, Navy / Pirate, T2, and for cruisers, T3,. Restructure the Dropsuit and Vehicle Command skill trees to more closely resemble EVE.) DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/ EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.

Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2148	Posted - 2014.03.10 14:06:00 - [31] - Quote You would need specialized ADV/PRO vehicles. Scout LAVs- I was thinking stealth/scanning for LAVs, where they could be a little bit faster, but also have the ability to have scan profiles below vehicle scans, and also have a better bonus to scan range with all of these different properties effected by racial bonus. Scout LAVs would potentially be the LAV you can drive into a base undetected. Anti-HAVs- Slow base turret turn rate, low base HP, but high base resistance against enemy racial turrets. Make it so infantry AV is better against them so they don't become an anti infantry tank. They would be a hunter-killer tank.
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game 325	Posted - 2014.03.10 14:24:00 - [32] - Quote no tiericide. jesus hasnt there been enough ******* around already? i want new game modes. pve player market. shut the hell up about balance when we dont have all the items. tiericide didnt make things easier in eve.it made it harder to spec into better ships. while the crap is easier. i see you chanting this garbage and you have no idea what it means. and better tank's after av takes another nerfbat to the knee best be trolling fool. my name is boba and im a hoarder. although this isnt by choice. no player market =(
shadow drake35 the death raiders 73	Posted - 2014.03.10 14:26:00 - [33] - Quote noobsniper the 2nd wrote: Edit:Guy above me said it first us MAG players are all over here, were riftrafts The Mercenary Way Who careswhat i use as long as the job is done and i get paid. MAG Raven, Valor, and S.V.E.R.
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 405	Posted - 2014.03.10 17:59:00 - [34] - Quote Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: It seems to me that DUST's suit / vehicle selection (analogous to EVE's ship selection) incorrectly focuses on depth rather than width. EVE has an extremely wide ship selection. Racial Frigate 1 will unlock 6 frigates of that respective race. Slighty more skilling into Frigate skills will unlock more potent Navy and Pirate frigates, and much more skilling into Frigate and other support skills will unlock access to T2 ships. To improve your ship you level up your skills. EVE's ships selection is rather shallow, though. The progression (from SP invested) is T1 -> Navy / Pirate -> T2. The selection is wide because there are man frigates to choose from. In contrast, DUST has an fairly deep selection of suits / vehicles. The system progress from MLT to PRO, and you unlock them by leveling up skills. Cost aside, higher tiers are strictly better than lower. DUST's ship selection is very narrow though. Skilling into the respective light suit skill only unlocks one light suit. Skilling into the respective Scout skill only unlocks on light suit. This is another case where DUST needs to be more like EVE. DUST needs more width (add more suits / vehicles of each size that fill roles similar to EVE) and less depth (get rid of tiers; there are no meta variants of ships, only T1, Navy / Pirate, T2, and for cruisers, T3,. Restructure the Dropsuit and Vehicle Command skill trees to more closely resemble EVE.) Standard advanced and proto will be removed eventually but we need better skills and more mods. I agree about the suits, each race should have a wide assortment of suits. We can go deeper and wide. also agree about the restructuring.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 2343	Posted - 2014.03.10 18:37:00 - [35] - Quote AV is a fairly delicate balance, I think we've seen enough of it over the last 7 patches in uprising to see how easy it is to make AV either completely overpowered or almost useless (looking at swarms here). Another option would be to remove the tiers in AV, so that there isnt an imbalance between proto av vs. std vehicles. However... the more I think about it... it doesn't sound all that interesting. All I really see is that people want to bring proto AV to the field and pay a std meta level price for it. Part of the reason tiers exist in dust is risk vs. reward. You want to bring that proto FG to the field, you have to be okay losing an expensive gun if you die. So while I was on board with tiericide... it sounds awfully boring and a really easy way to kill the value of isk in this game. So i'm with you OP, lets keep it interesting and bring on adv and proto vehicles!
Derpty Derp It's All Gone Derp 113	Posted - 2014.03.10 18:41:00 - [36] - Quote Proto dropship = a main turret and less hp... Maybe a Proto tank can = more hp and no main turret?
Protocake JR Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 1419	Posted - 2014.03.10 19:00:00 - [37] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I disagree, we need to rid ourselves of tiers all together. Tiericide is the way of the future. Don't kid yourself, even in EvE there are T2 and T3 ships, on top of skills giving massive bonuses. Vets will still dominate simply because we've been around longer, tericide won't stop that. I simply don't like the idea that someone relies on better gear to supplement their skill. It's New Eden, an MMO, improving yourself to get an upper hand is the name of the game, that's why squads exsist in Dust, it's why fleets exists in EvE, It's why we have the racial suits, and why fleet issue ships are flown. No fight is fair in New Eden and if it looks like it is, it's a ******* trap. Aaaaaaaaand you lost me right there. I was keeping an open mind and wanted to hear your master plan but it seems like you are just another delusional eve guy. New Eden cannot fit inside a 20 minute 16v16 deathmatch. Dust is NOT an MMO, neither in a traditional sense nor any innovative sense, it's like CCP thought just because this FPS has chat windows it gave them the right to call Dust an MMO. Do you remember when higher tier Dropsuits had more base health? And when better weapons did considerably more damage? Those were the days where I would rarely die, even sometimes go entire play sessions without dying a single time. Since CCP has "flattened out" the gear from STD to PRO, the game has improved for new players and poor players. The PC and SL should fit into the Sidearm slot so it's accessible and practical to carry one. AV spam vs V spam
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 4549	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:23:00 - [38] - Quote True Adamance wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I disagree, we need to rid ourselves of tiers all together. Tiericide is the way of the future. Also this would make higher tier vehicles invincible against lower tier AV and higher tier AV would completely destroy anything that isn't high tier. The only way to remedy this would be to make the difference between militia tiers and proto tiers extremely small. Though this means that there would be almost no reason to skill into higher level AV or higher tier vehicles. That's a dangerous concept. You either achieve a nice balance or you rid the game of diversity and depth..... Put in attachments; weapon attachments, external dropsuit and enhanced vehicle parts would solve this. For weapons you could change out barrels, optics, grips, handles, ammo type, camo(cosmetic), fire mode and magazine length. Now you may think that things like fire mode change would devalue things like Assault, Tactical and Burst Variants. Though I'd argue that this issue could be resolved by adding individual slots and CPU/PG pools that weapons could have. This means that Burst AR would still be a better burst weapon than the full auto AR with fire mode mod, because that's one less slot the Burst AR has to use up. Dropsuits could also switch out helmets, backpacks, gloves, shoes, chest rigs, etc... These add-ons would use up CPU and PG, or sometimes add to it, but would have separate slots from typical high or low slots. Vehicles could have external things like one time use reactive armor, non repairable armor, bumpers that damage enemy vehicles , lighter hulls, heavier hulls, etc... These add-ons wouldn't use up CPU or PG (unless they're made to increase CPU/PG or hulls that would automatically change the balance of CPU/PG) and would have separate slots from either low or high slots. Would be pretty sweet, boo. ;) Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 1977	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:33:00 - [39] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I disagree, we need to rid ourselves of tiers all together. Tiericide is the way of the future. Also this would make higher tier vehicles invincible against lower tier AV and higher tier AV would completely destroy anything that isn't high tier. The only way to remedy this would be to make the difference between militia tiers and proto tiers extremely small. Though this means that there would be almost no reason to skill into higher level AV or higher tier vehicles. Yup. Because you Wanted to be Something your Not.
Storm Shelton 0uter.Heaven 143	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:40:00 - [40] - Quote I don't really care for seeing higher tiers of vehicles, BUT I would like to see different factions of vehicles. I've always wondered what I Minmatar or Amarr tank/dropship looks like. I don't think Dust is yet ready to bring back higher level vehicles until the balance between AV & Vehicles is made. I could just imagine what an Enforcer tank would do nowadays... lol Tanker alt -- Quasar Storm Director of PAND3M0N1UM Lai Dai Flux & Focused Core Repair Tool "Expert"

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8082	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:48:00 - [41] - Quote I wouldn't remind removing the HAV MLT tier. It'd certainly reduce the spam of Maddy's and Gunlogi, if the more powerful HAV required more ISK, not too much more, and another SP sink. MLT HAV- Gone STD HAV- Sica + Soma ADV HAV- Madrugar and Gunlogi PRO HAV- We have 3 types each representing an aspect or two of the 3 aspects of modern tank design. Enforcer- Fire Power, Mobility Black Ops- Mobility, Armour Marauder- Armour, Fire Power Each with a weakness in their respect field. Enforcer= Fast and powerful but the lightest armoured HAV, Marauder= Armoured and with good firepower, but slowest and least mobile, Black Ops= Fastest, well armoured, but lacking any real fire power assets. " ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters" - Malleus Malificorum
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 408	Posted - 2014.03.10 22:23:00 - [42] - Quote True Adamance wrote: I wouldn't remind removing the HAV MLT tier. It'd certainly reduce the spam of Maddy's and Gunlogi, if the more powerful HAV required more ISK, not too much more, and another SP sink. MLT HAV- Gone STD HAV- Sica + Soma ADV HAV- Madrugar and Gunlogi PRO HAV- We have 3 types each representing an aspect or two of the 3 aspects of modern tank design. Enforcer- Fire Power, Mobility Black Ops- Mobility, Armour Marauder- Armour, Fire Power Each with a weakness in their respect field. Enforcer= Fast and powerful but the lightest armoured HAV, Marauder= Armoured and with good firepower, but slowest and least mobile, Black Ops= Fastest, well armoured, but lacking any real fire power assets. Does black ops get some form of stealth to ambush other tanks?
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 5071	Posted - 2014.03.10 22:33:00 - [43] - Quote Can I just get my Methana II please? That's all I want, and a non suicidal LAV turret. *1st Official Role Playing Gallente Asshole* -Title Awarded by True Adamance
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8084	Posted - 2014.03.10 22:33:00 - [44] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: True Adamance wrote: I wouldn't remind removing the HAV MLT tier. It'd certainly reduce the spam of Maddy's and Gunlogi, if the more powerful HAV required more ISK, not too much more, and another SP sink. MLT HAV- Gone STD HAV- Sica + Soma ADV HAV- Madrugar and Gunlogi PRO HAV- We have 3 types each representing an aspect or two of the 3 aspects of modern tank design. Enforcer- Fire Power, Mobility Black Ops- Mobility, Armour Marauder- Armour, Fire Power Each with a weakness in their respect field. Enforcer= Fast and powerful but the lightest armoured HAV, Marauder= Armoured and with good firepower, but slowest and least mobile, Black Ops= Fastest, well armoured, but lacking any real fire power assets. Does black ops get some form of stealth to ambush other tanks? I was thinking this...but visual cloaking would be ridiculous..... I would prefer a mini map cloaking. Making sure all other HAV appear on the minimaps like they should due to their design, whereas the Black Ops can scan cloak itself. Perhaps not against dedicated scanners but against most passive and basic scanners. " ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters" - Malleus Malificorum
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2176	Posted - 2014.03.10 22:47:00 - [45] - Quote Bad Idea, 1) If you don't have Proto your *** 2) If your team doesn't have Proto AV when your enemy has Proto tanks your ** 3) If your enemy has Proto AV the your mlt tank ain't ** So you end up with no more tankers being created, because they don't bother getting passed mlt, AVers complain because they only ever come across Proto Tankers. Sounds terrible. Remove Adv and Proto AV Change Mlt and Std to proto damage levels, give mlt a lower mag and max ammo count. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 3395	Posted - 2014.03.10 22:53:00 - [46] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I disagree, we need to rid ourselves of tiers all together. Tiericide is the way of the future. Don't kid yourself, even in EvE there are T2 and T3 ships, on top of skills giving massive bonuses. Vets will still dominate simply because we've been around longer, tericide won't stop that. I simply don't like the idea that someone relies on better gear to supplement their skill. That's kinda the point. There are times when I've won gunfights just by having the smarter fitting. It's part of the appeal of the game for me. I'm not exactly a FPS gamer. No.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8086	Posted - 2014.03.10 23:17:00 - [47] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Bad Idea, 1) If you don't have Proto your *** 2) If your team doesn't have Proto AV when your enemy has Proto tanks your ** 3) If your enemy has Proto AV the your mlt tank ain't ** So you end up with no more tankers being created, because they don't bother getting passed mlt, AVers complain because they only ever come across Proto Tankers. Sounds terrible. Remove Adv and Proto AV Change Mlt and Std to proto damage levels, give mlt a lower mag and max ammo count. What needs to happen is for CCP to set some AV numbers, then balance vehicle HP and modules around those numbers. LAV 2x Swarms Dropship 3x Swarms HAV 4x Swarms etc something basic like that....then use modules to modify how much AV fire a vehicle can tank. Hardened at 25% Lav 2.5 x Swarms Dropships 3.75 Swarms HAV 5x Swarms My terrible mathemathic blasphemy....is terrible I know. " ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters" - Malleus Malificorum
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2176	Posted - 2014.03.10 23:36:00 - [48] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Bad Idea, 1) If you don't have Proto your *** 2) If your team doesn't have Proto AV when your enemy has Proto tanks your ** 3) If your enemy has Proto AV the your mlt tank ain't ** So you end up with no more tankers being created, because they don't bother getting passed mlt, AVers complain because they only ever come across Proto Tankers. Sounds terrible. Remove Adv and Proto AV Change Mlt and Std to proto damage levels, give mlt a lower mag and max ammo count. What needs to happen is for CCP to set some AV numbers, then balance vehicle HP and modules around those numbers. LAV 2x Swarms Dropship 3x Swarms HAV 4x Swarms etc something basic like that....then use modules to modify how much AV fire a vehicle can tank. Hardened at 25% Lav 2.5 x Swarms Dropships 3.75 Swarms HAV 5x Swarms My terrible mathemathic blasphemy....is terrible I know. It doesn't even have to be that just times. So how long does a LAV need to do it primary role? About 10 Secs, so give 15 secs and it has 5 secs to retreat. How long does a HAV need to do its primary role? About 30 Secs, so give 40 secs and it has 10 secs to bid a slow retreat. How long does a dropship need to do it primary role? About 50 secs, so give 80 and its got time to clear the LZ and give fire support. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 409	Posted - 2014.03.10 23:41:00 - [49] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: True Adamance wrote: I wouldn't remind removing the HAV MLT tier. It'd certainly reduce the spam of Maddy's and Gunlogi, if the more powerful HAV required more ISK, not too much more, and another SP sink. MLT HAV- Gone STD HAV- Sica + Soma ADV HAV- Madrugar and Gunlogi PRO HAV- We have 3 types each representing an aspect or two of the 3 aspects of modern tank design. Enforcer- Fire Power, Mobility Black Ops- Mobility, Armour Marauder- Armour, Fire Power Each with a weakness in their respect field. Enforcer= Fast and powerful but the lightest armoured HAV, Marauder= Armoured and with good firepower, but slowest and least mobile, Black Ops= Fastest, well armoured, but lacking any real fire power assets. Does black ops get some form of stealth to ambush other tanks? I was thinking this...but visual cloaking would be ridiculous..... I would prefer a mini map cloaking. Making sure all other HAV appear on the minimaps like they should due to their design, whereas the Black Ops can scan cloak itself. Perhaps not against dedicated scanners but against most passive and basic scanners. That's what I was thinking, like titans being immune to e warfare. Black ops hav immune to scanning. So I can lay in wait like a German tank destroyer. Only visual cloaking im okay with is If we ever get a graphics update let tanks blend into their surroundings like mgs4 A passive adaptive camouflage as an alternative to the full on invisibility cloak. Stop moving for a few seconds and the outer most parts of the tank change color like a chameleon
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 2347	Posted - 2014.03.10 23:47:00 - [50] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Bad Idea, 1) If you don't have Proto your *** 2) If your team doesn't have Proto AV when your enemy has Proto tanks your ** 3) If your enemy has Proto AV the your mlt tank ain't ** So you end up with no more tankers being created, because they don't bother getting passed mlt, AVers complain because they only ever come across Proto Tankers. Sounds terrible. Remove Adv and Proto AV Change Mlt and Std to proto damage levels, give mlt a lower mag and max ammo count. As long as those mlt and std AV cost as much as current proto AV.

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8089	Posted - 2014.03.10 23:54:00 - [51] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: True Adamance wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: True Adamance wrote: I wouldn't remind removing the HAV MLT tier. It'd certainly reduce the spam of Maddy's and Gunlogi, if the more powerful HAV required more ISK, not too much more, and another SP sink. MLT HAV- Gone STD HAV- Sica + Soma ADV HAV- Madrugar and Gunlogi PRO HAV- We have 3 types each representing an aspect or two of the 3 aspects of modern tank design. Enforcer- Fire Power, Mobility Black Ops- Mobility, Armour Marauder- Armour, Fire Power Each with a weakness in their respect field. Enforcer= Fast and powerful but the lightest armoured HAV, Marauder= Armoured and with good firepower, but slowest and least mobile, Black Ops= Fastest, well armoured, but lacking any real fire power assets. Does black ops get some form of stealth to ambush other tanks? I was thinking this...but visual cloaking would be ridiculous..... I would prefer a mini map cloaking. Making sure all other HAV appear on the minimaps like they should due to their design, whereas the Black Ops can scan cloak itself. Perhaps not against dedicated scanners but against most passive and basic scanners. That's what I was thinking, like titans being immune to e warfare. Black ops hav immune to scanning. So I can lay in wait like a German tank destroyer. Only visual cloaking im okay with is If we ever get a graphics update let tanks blend into their surroundings like mgs4 A passive adaptive camouflage as an alternative to the full on invisibility cloak. Stop moving for a few seconds and the outer most parts of the tank change color like a chameleon Well frankly speaking the Enforcer would, under this model, be better designed for that... " ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters" - Malleus Malificorum
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1913	Posted - 2014.03.11 00:00:00 - [52] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I disagree, we need to rid ourselves of tiers all together. Tiericide is the way of the future. Don't kid yourself, even in EvE there are T2 and T3 ships, on top of skills giving massive bonuses. Vets will still dominate simply because we've been around longer, tericide won't stop that. I simply don't like the idea that someone relies on better gear to supplement their skill. It's New Eden, an MMO, improving yourself to get an upper hand is the name of the game, that's why squads exsist in Dust, it's why fleets exists in EvE, It's why we have the racial suits, and why fleet issue ships are flown. No fight is fair in New Eden and if it looks like it is, it's a ******* trap. I'm not against diversity among the types of gear used. I'am against how useful gear is by tier. In Dus, higher tiers are better in every single way vs lower tiers, while in EVE higher tiers merely mean the access of more variations. I like the idea of diversity, but detest the idea of gear which is simply better in every form to those that came before it. It is the bonus system, the bonus in EvE comes from the ship per level of x but int DUST the bonus comes from the skill. The reason tiericide helped EvE was because to fly a frigate with a different bonus a pilot had to up the skill level. Now all t1 ships can be flow with only one level of skill x. In DUST the prototype is just more of the same and in EVE the specialization is reflected by the bonus on the ship. Put the bonuses on the suit and offer multiple suits per tier and have each tier become more progressively specialized but a waste of ISK doing about anything else. I would like to see a suit progression like this and vehicles should follow the same type of progression. "You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." Raoul Duke
Hecarim Van Hohen Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 593	Posted - 2014.03.11 00:06:00 - [53] - Quote I'd like to see rest of the racial vehicles (LAV's, DS' and HAV's), turrets and possibly rest of the AV options introduced before we start ***** with vehicle and av balance just for the sole reason of missing half of the content that should be there before any balancing attempts happen BANGO SKANK WAS HERE** 1.7 best match (HMG): 40/9/9 (K/A/D)
SgtDoughnut DUST University Ivy League 461	Posted - 2014.03.11 00:12:00 - [54] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I disagree, we need to rid ourselves of tiers all together. Tiericide is the way of the future. Don't kid yourself, even in EvE there are T2 and T3 ships, on top of skills giving massive bonuses. Vets will still dominate simply because we've been around longer, tericide won't stop that. You do know t2 ships are just specialized versions of t1 ships? Teiricide is where they removed the internal tiers in tier 1. Before tiericide frigs had a defined progression path, such as you would go from condor to kestral/merlin for combat as a caldari. Now the condor is the tackler and the merlin and the kestrel are heavy combat ships. Instead of each ship serving the same role just better than the last each ship now serves its own role.
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 2404	Posted - 2014.03.11 00:18:00 - [55] - Quote No because proto AV barely can scratch militia tanks. I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle United Brotherhood Alliance 344	Posted - 2014.03.11 00:25:00 - [56] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I disagree, we need to rid ourselves of tiers all together. Tiericide is the way of the future. Don't kid yourself, even in EvE there are T2 and T3 ships, on top of skills giving massive bonuses. Vets will still dominate simply because we've been around longer, tericide won't stop that. T2 is TECH LEVEL TWO not tier 2. If you didn't know that I'm sorry for you. Tiericide in is the removal of the idea that certain ships should be wildly better than others in the same category that were unlocked by the same skill.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8090	Posted - 2014.03.11 00:31:00 - [57] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I disagree, we need to rid ourselves of tiers all together. Tiericide is the way of the future. Don't kid yourself, even in EvE there are T2 and T3 ships, on top of skills giving massive bonuses. Vets will still dominate simply because we've been around longer, tericide won't stop that. T2 is TECH LEVEL TWO not tier 2. If you didn't know that I'm sorry for you. Tiericide in is the removal of the idea that certain ships should be wildly better than others in the same category that were unlocked by the same skill. It certainly is a step up from t1 gear though. " ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters" - Malleus Malificorum
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8090	Posted - 2014.03.11 00:39:00 - [58] - Quote SgtDoughnut wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I disagree, we need to rid ourselves of tiers all together. Tiericide is the way of the future. Don't kid yourself, even in EvE there are T2 and T3 ships, on top of skills giving massive bonuses. Vets will still dominate simply because we've been around longer, tericide won't stop that. You do know t2 ships are just specialized versions of t1 ships? Teiricide is where they removed the internal tiers in tier 1. Before tiericide frigs had a defined progression path, such as you would go from condor to kestral/merlin for combat as a caldari. Now the condor is the tackler and the merlin and the kestrel are heavy combat ships. Instead of each ship serving the same role just better than the last each ship now serves its own role. Its not just T2 ships its T2 turrets which also have superior damage models over T1. Much like our own Prototype vs Standard Model. " ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters" - Malleus Malificorum
Chesyre Armundsen Thanes Of Dust 455	Posted - 2014.03.11 01:03:00 - [59] - Quote I agree that there should in no way be a Mlt HAV that requires 0 skill to operate. On topic tho I agree that there should be Adv and Proto vehicles, but that the HAV doesn't need to be beefed up much more than it is. Also there should be a major increase to the price of all HAV's. I'm sure it'll show up in some build, but i'm looking at current numbers. Higher level vehicles requiring more SP and Isk that bring incentives to usability like additional resources and specialized roles would offer a reward for specializing and worth the sticker price. I love playing AV infantry and I think the current tier system would work well if the disparity between lack of AV damage and the incredible low cost of a well fitted HAV, along with design issues on the HAV turret system was addressed. Angle of attack on the Gunnlogi turret has been cited, along with other issues regarding turret balancing and yadda yadda... Frankly I'm looking forward to adapting my tactics to work against higher "level" future vehicles, and I think that greater variety for the appropriate investments will be a boon to the game. What I see currently in the RPG element is that inexpensive and limited vehicle selection is tipping the balance. No one has to work for their "level 1 Maddy". Very threatening vehicles should be like that amazing armour/weapon/magical item that you can only purchase or find after a long campaign of hours, sweat and tears. Mihi gravato Deus - "Let God lay the burden on me!"
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 409	Posted - 2014.03.11 01:10:00 - [60] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: True Adamance wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: True Adamance wrote: I wouldn't remind removing the HAV MLT tier. It'd certainly reduce the spam of Maddy's and Gunlogi, if the more powerful HAV required more ISK, not too much more, and another SP sink. MLT HAV- Gone STD HAV- Sica + Soma ADV HAV- Madrugar and Gunlogi PRO HAV- We have 3 types each representing an aspect or two of the 3 aspects of modern tank design. Enforcer- Fire Power, Mobility Black Ops- Mobility, Armour Marauder- Armour, Fire Power Each with a weakness in their respect field. Enforcer= Fast and powerful but the lightest armoured HAV, Marauder= Armoured and with good firepower, but slowest and least mobile, Black Ops= Fastest, well armoured, but lacking any real fire power assets. Does black ops get some form of stealth to ambush other tanks? I was thinking this...but visual cloaking would be ridiculous..... I would prefer a mini map cloaking. Making sure all other HAV appear on the minimaps like they should due to their design, whereas the Black Ops can scan cloak itself. Perhaps not against dedicated scanners but against most passive and basic scanners. That's what I was thinking, like titans being immune to e warfare. Black ops hav immune to scanning. So I can lay in wait like a German tank destroyer. Only visual cloaking im okay with is If we ever get a graphics update let tanks blend into their surroundings like mgs4 A passive adaptive camouflage as an alternative to the full on invisibility cloak. Stop moving for a few seconds and the outer most parts of the tank change color like a chameleon Well frankly speaking the Enforcer would, under this model, be better designed for that... If you mean because of the fire power to be a tank buster. I was just thinking of stealth stuff that isn't unfair. I always saw tank destroyers as medium vehicles. Smaller multi wheeled with av turets, Aa minigun, laser, automatic swarm launcher, somthing for gallente. The mav concept art already looks like this I don't think we should have a proto tank until we have mediums. It doesn't have to be the black ops hav that does tank ambush

Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 3021	Posted - 2014.03.11 01:23:00 - [61] - Quote Can anyone outline how RPG tiers can be balanced in a low player count FPS? I'm not trolling here, I simply can't see how it can be accomplished.
Flyingconejo KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 550	Posted - 2014.03.11 01:26:00 - [62] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: if we said no to proto dropsuits, there would be uproar and mass quittings on the forums and the world would end while CCP has to sticky suicide helpline numbers to GD To be honest, I would be clapping if CCP did that, but they don't have what it takes. On topic, if for proto vehicles you mean things like the Falchion, Vayu, Chakkram, etc... then yes. If you mean Surya and Sagaris, then no. More options, less power creep.
Chesyre Armundsen Thanes Of Dust 455	Posted - 2014.03.11 01:37:00 - [63] - Quote Skihids wrote: Can anyone outline how RPG tiers can be balanced in a low player count FPS? I'm not trolling here, I simply can't see how it can be accomplished. Only viable solution I can see is a smaller disparity between levels. Small changes to stats, or skill bonuses. I think only having an increased variety of fit options and vehicles isn't enough to keep DUST fresh and different. We all like that being here longer, or putting in more time reflects in the development of your character. Its the joy of having a "higher level" character. Mihi gravato Deus - "Let God lay the burden on me!"
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 4996	Posted - 2014.03.11 10:52:00 - [64] - Quote discussion is good for you. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 4 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2178	Posted - 2014.03.11 11:08:00 - [65] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Bad Idea, 1) If you don't have Proto your *** 2) If your team doesn't have Proto AV when your enemy has Proto tanks your ** 3) If your enemy has Proto AV the your mlt tank ain't ** So you end up with no more tankers being created, because they don't bother getting passed mlt, AVers complain because they only ever come across Proto Tankers. Sounds terrible. Remove Adv and Proto AV Change Mlt and Std to proto damage levels, give mlt a lower mag and max ammo count. As long as those mlt and std AV cost as much as current proto AV. mlt would be a little cheaper but yes, it should cost about as much as proto AV does now. The thing is with HAVs or even just vehicles in general, if we gave the same amount of survivability as their tiered dropsuits Proto tanks would be pure indestructible. If we gave tiered vehicles less survivability than their equivalent dropsuits tankers would whine. Quite rightly that there not getting a fair deal. But for the problems I stated in my previous post we can have tiered vehicles. If you want vehicles to cheap, cheerful and rather common like they should be you then can't give them 10mil indestructible powerhouses. Vehicles need to be cheap to start in an require 0 skill, just like any other role in this game. Those who say there should be no mlt tanks don't forsee the problems with trying to encourage new tankers. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Sam Tektzby Better Hide R Die 339	Posted - 2014.03.11 11:14:00 - [66] - Quote If there will be possibility to take it down even like infantry, why not. If it will be more pain in "somewhere", nope..we already have unbalanced gameplay with what we already have. Support - Tactician/Support Deteis - Orator BHD since MAG
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2910	Posted - 2014.03.11 11:17:00 - [67] - Quote Flyingconejo wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: if we said no to proto dropsuits, there would be uproar and mass quittings on the forums and the world would end while CCP has to sticky suicide helpline numbers to GD To be honest, I would be clapping if CCP did that, but they don't have what it takes. On topic, if for proto vehicles you mean things like the Falchion, Vayu, Chakkram, etc... then yes. If you mean Surya and Sagaris, then no. More options, less power creep. You already got power creep with proto dropsuits, extra slots which = extra hp/dmg and pg/cpu to fit it while passive skills enhance the dropsuit more Surya and Sagaris were our adv tanks which had more slots and cpu/pg but with no skill for each level Intelligence is OP
Flyingconejo KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 558	Posted - 2014.03.11 12:00:00 - [68] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: You already got power creep with proto dropsuits, extra slots which = extra hp/dmg and pg/cpu to fit it while passive skills enhance the dropsuit more I agree. That's the reason I said I would be clapping if CCP removed current proto suits. They are a problem. Introducing the Surya and Sagaris would mean compounding that problem, not resolving it. Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Surya and Sagaris were our adv tanks which had more slots and cpu/pg but with no skill for each level Most of the qq in the tank vs AV threads come from people complaining that either AV is either too powerful or too weak against standard vehicles. But balancing different tiers of basic/advanced/proto AV vs basic/advanced/proto tanks is impossible. As people have said before in this thread, something is always going to give, with the consequent QQ. What people should be asking for is for the removal of tiers in AV. Right now we have a basic Forge Gun at level 1, an advanced Forge Gun at level 3 that is better at everything than the basic one, and a proto Forge Gun at level 5 that is better at everything than the previous two. No one uses lesser tiered AV unless they are short on money. There is no point. But if we removed the tiers in AV, we could have the Breach FG variant at level 1, the regular Forge Gun at level 3, and the Assault FG at level 5. Just an example. Each of those balanced against the standard vehicles. Then we could have the standard HAV at level 1, a variant like the Falchion/Vayu at level 3, and another variant (not upgrade) at level 5. Since they are variants and not upgrades, the level 3 and 5 tanks would still be balanced against the AV. Easier to balance, all variants would have a use, no power creep. But CCP does not agree with me, so whatever.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2910	Posted - 2014.03.11 12:40:00 - [69] - Quote Flyingconejo wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: You already got power creep with proto dropsuits, extra slots which = extra hp/dmg and pg/cpu to fit it while passive skills enhance the dropsuit more I agree. That's the reason I said I would be clapping if CCP removed current proto suits. They are a problem. Introducing the Surya and Sagaris would mean compounding that problem, not resolving it. Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Surya and Sagaris were our adv tanks which had more slots and cpu/pg but with no skill for each level Most of the qq in the tank vs AV threads come from people complaining that either AV is either too powerful or too weak against standard vehicles. But balancing different tiers of basic/advanced/proto AV vs basic/advanced/proto tanks is impossible. As people have said before in this thread, something is always going to give, with the consequent QQ. What people should be asking for is for the removal of tiers in AV. Right now we have a basic Forge Gun at level 1, an advanced Forge Gun at level 3 that is better at everything than the basic one, and a proto Forge Gun at level 5 that is better at everything than the previous two. No one uses lesser tiered AV unless they are short on money. There is no point. But if we removed the tiers in AV, we could have the Breach FG variant at level 1, the regular Forge Gun at level 3, and the Assault FG at level 5. Just an example. Each of those balanced against the standard vehicles. Then we could have the standard HAV at level 1, a variant like the Falchion/Vayu at level 3, and another variant (not upgrade) at level 5. Since they are variants and not upgrades, the level 3 and 5 tanks would still be balanced against the AV. Easier to balance, all variants would have a use, no power creep. But CCP does not agree with me, so whatever. Removal of tiers means less choice I have proto FG, i use them because they get the job done and im also rich enough to use them consistantly till the end of time, if we had matchmaking by gear i would have to use basic FG in a basic room but i wouldnt be against proto everyone would be on an equal footing If you balance proto AV with proto vehicles then balance is achieved and it can be done for adv/basic aswell With adv being a bit easier to take out basic and proto being even easier to take out basic and basic being harder to take out proto etc Also the basic/adv/proto tiers are needed to an extent, you play because you enjoy the game but also so that you can unlock your fave suit and gun which will help out at even basic levels, i still play because im waiting for pilot suits and proto hulls and also specalized vehicles because it gives me something to work for I have the option with infantry with working towards logi 5 for example but i dont have it with vehicles, hell we only have basic vehicles apart from the ADS which have no bonus skills attached to the vehicle, logi LAV/scout LAV and LOGI DS/ENFORCERS did The power creep was worse back in closed beta, my proto suit had more base hp than the adv/basic suits and tbh i didnt mind that, it gave me a reason to skill up but also it was expenisve with the suit i think costing about 300k with nothing on it so in todays terms 1 death means im in the red instantly with no weapon or mods on it but i did like it, sure it made it hard for basic to kill me but we got warbarge strikes now and working tanks If infantry has tiers so should vehicles Intelligence is OP
Flyingconejo KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 558	Posted - 2014.03.11 13:48:00 - [70] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Removal of tiers means less choice I have proto FG, i use them because they get the job done and im also rich enough to use them consistantly till the end of time, if we had matchmaking by gear i would have to use basic FG in a basic room but i wouldnt be against proto everyone would be on an equal footing Why less choice? You have said yourself that you would use the proto FG all the time, unless other factors like matchmaking by gear, or lack of isk, forced you to pick up a standard/basic FG. In the example I made, all the variants (regular, breach, assault) would still exist. I would only remove the FG that you are not going to use unless forced anyway (basic and advanced tiers). So the choices you would have would still be the same. Quote: Also the basic/adv/proto tiers are needed to an extent, you play because you enjoy the game but also so that you can unlock your fave suit and gun which will help out at even basic levels, i still play because im waiting for pilot suits and proto hulls and also specalized vehicles because it gives me something to work for The incentive to unlock new and better things would still be there. Keep the tiers in modules, and don't change the skill system. A vet would still have an advantage over a newer player in the same suit/hull. But instead of unlocking a hull that is better at everything than your old hull (which would make you to never use your old hull unless forced, like above), you would unlock new variants, new bonuses and new/better modules. New ways of playing the game. Quote: I have the option with infantry with working towards logi 5 for example but i dont have it with vehicles, hell we only have basic vehicles apart from the ADS which have no bonus skills attached to the vehicle, logi LAV/scout LAV and LOGI DS/ENFORCERS did I agree with you that we need more variants for the existing vehicles, new vehicles, and the Amarr/Minmatar line of vehicles. And yes, the standard HAV, LAVs and dropships should have a bonus too. And the advanced/proto variants should have a different bonus than the standard version. To make them, you know, more variant. :p But that's a different discussion. Quote: The power creep was worse back in closed beta, my proto suit had more base hp than the adv/basic suits and tbh i didnt mind that, it gave me a reason to skill up but also it was expenisve with the suit i think costing about 300k with nothing on it so in todays terms 1 death means im in the red instantly with no weapon or mods on it but i did like it, sure it made it hard for basic to kill me but we got warbarge strikes now and working tanks I think that distance makes us remember closed beta as something better than it really was. We only had fun because it was new and we still had the illusion that CCP knew what they were doing. But let's be honest here, it sucked. Dust has always been lacking. Closed beta, open beta and now. I understand that you have fun with the game being designed this way. A lot of the people I play with agree with you, and I can see your points. But I can't help but think that everything would be more fun the other way. We will have to agree to disagree, I guess. I don't think you have cause to worry, to be honest. CCP certainly loves tiers.

Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2910	Posted - 2014.03.11 14:32:00 - [71] - Quote Flyingconejo wrote: Why less choice? You have said yourself that you would use the proto FG all the time, unless other factors like matchmaking by gear, or lack of isk, forced you to pick up a standard/basic FG. In the example I made, all the variants (regular, breach, assault) would still exist. I would only remove the FG that you are not going to use unless forced anyway (basic and advanced tiers). So the choices you would have would still be the same. The incentive to unlock new and better things would still be there. Keep the tiers in modules, and don't change the skill system. A vet would still have an advantage over a newer player in the same suit/hull. But instead of unlocking a hull that is better at everything than your old hull (which would make you to never use your old hull unless forced, like above), you would unlock new variants, new bonuses and new/better modules. New ways of playing the game. I agree with you that we need more variants for the existing vehicles, new vehicles, and the Amarr/Minmatar line of vehicles. And yes, the standard HAV, LAVs and dropships should have a bonus too. And the advanced/proto variants should have a different bonus than the standard version. To make them, you know, more variant. :p But that's a different discussion. I think that distance makes us remember closed beta as something better than it really was. We only had fun because it was new and we still had the illusion that CCP knew what they were doing. But let's be honest here, it sucked. Dust has always been lacking. Closed beta, open beta and now. I understand that you have fun with the game being designed this way. A lot of the people I play with agree with you, and I can see your points. But I can't help but think that everything would be more fun the other way. We will have to agree to disagree, I guess. I don't think you have cause to worry, to be honest. CCP certainly loves tiers. Less choice, right now i can run proto because im rich, if i wanted to save ISK i could drop down to basic and use a weaker version but also between basic/adv/proto we have breach std and afg but over diff tiers so breach is proto and basic and afg is proto and adv but std is on all 3 tiers With matchmaking by gear i would be forced to use x version but i would be choosing the match so its still my choice Not really incentive is to try and get better gear, if you have 1 suit then thats it bit meh, x price and thats it where as 3 dropsuits is more choice and you can each one for a diff purpose so basic for pubs adv for fw and proto for pc STD vehicles would get no bonus because they are basic frames, only specalized hulls would get skil bonuses but you still get basic/adv/proto for each vehicle I worked my ass off in closed beta to get that proto gear, was awesome when i had it namly because i was so damn powerful but heavys still hurt and tanks were damn tanks now proto suit is meh and my exile can go through a std heavy in a clip Intelligence is OP


Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.