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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3009
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Posted - 2014.02.03 23:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
Do you speed tankers believe that 1.8 might kill speed tanking further? The common saying is "Speed tanking is fun but dead". Currently this is due to issues from back in Chromosome with the Keanu Reeves Scouts and hit detection. However speed is definitely useful, for instance escapes.
But that is currently one of the two best uses for speed tanking: Escaping and getting around. Other than that pretty useless given that Kin Cats only effect sprint. On the other side of things, Stealth and health are both good for escaping and attacking/biting back. Seeing as how vehicles offer the best mode of getting around anyways, Speed has the short end of the stick (strictly infantry)
I don't see many speed tanked suits unless they are completely CQC oriented but even then it's a rarity. Seeing as 1.8 CCP plans to make a big push for more Stealth/EWar, while giving bonuses to suits for health/resistance, is it a fair assessment to say that 1.8 will cut out half of speed tanking?
I can see speed tanking in the sense of Codebreakers still viable but other than that will it last in the game of mighty HP and super sleuths? I haven't seen anyone discuss the outcomes of speed in 1.8 and how it will effect the Bottle Users, while obvious buffs in Stealth and Health are made.
I like this game in it's 3 ring approach, stealth health and biotics. But currently even biotics are dwarfed by the other rings and while they still have a use it's slowly being encroached upon by the Stealth and Health rings. Minmatar Scout may be the last bastion of Speed tanking in 1.8 with it's innate code breakers but after that pfft.
I'd like to see speed mean something more in this game. I think the scout community agrees that Stealth > Speed, but to all others do foresee the 1.8 threat to your speed-tanking way of life?
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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Denn Maell
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
141
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Posted - 2014.02.03 23:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
I probably shouldn't be considered a speed tanker, but when I do its usually the mobility and not CQC. With the proximity lag effect its more difficult than it needs to be. For me speed is best used to get into and out of firing positions with a mid to long range weapon.
With speed I can even pop up and flank enemies or stop them moving forward. 1.8 will help with that game style.
The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field:
One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
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Roger Cordill
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
353
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Posted - 2014.02.03 23:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
message from Godin: it makes no sense to speed tank anything other than a light frame, and light frames suck at speed tanking. So no, it's not viable. Also, if you get scanned, no matter how fast you are, you'll be shot. So even for hacking it's pointless. Only reason to use it is to get away. |
Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3009
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Posted - 2014.02.03 23:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Roger Cordill wrote:message from Godin: it makes no sense to speed tank anything other than a light frame, and light frames suck at speed tanking. So no, it's not viable. Also, if you get scanned, no matter how fast you are, you'll be shot. So even for hacking it's pointless. Only reason to use it is to get away.
You've just made my point.
I want speed tanking to be to the point where if you are scanned, it won't matter if they know where you are, because you can be somewhere else lickity split. HP currently works the opposite, seeing as how scanning does not tell you your HP, someone with a lot of health can compete against that. If we make it so that all three rings can offensively and defensively compete against eachother that would be excellent.
Currently I think it's more broken due to FPS versus EVE, where in an FPS speed barely means anything when tracking speed/ sensitivity is so high.
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
406
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Posted - 2014.02.03 23:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Do you speed tankers believe that 1.8 might kill speed tanking further? The common saying is "Speed tanking is fun but dead". Currently this is due to issues from back in Chromosome with the Keanu Reeves Scouts and hit detection. However speed is definitely useful, for instance escapes.
But that is currently one of the two best uses for speed tanking: Escaping and getting around. Other than that pretty useless given that Kin Cats only effect sprint. On the other side of things, Stealth and health are both good for escaping and attacking/biting back. Seeing as how vehicles offer the best mode of getting around anyways, Speed has the short end of the stick (strictly infantry)
I don't see many speed tanked suits unless they are completely CQC oriented but even then it's a rarity. Seeing as 1.8 CCP plans to make a big push for more Stealth/EWar, while giving bonuses to suits for health/resistance, is it a fair assessment to say that 1.8 will cut out half of speed tanking?
I can see speed tanking in the sense of Codebreakers still viable but other than that will it last in the game of mighty HP and super sleuths? I haven't seen anyone discuss the outcomes of speed in 1.8 and how it will effect the Bottle Users, while obvious buffs in Stealth and Health are made.
I like this game in it's 3 ring approach, stealth health and biotics. But currently even biotics are dwarfed by the other rings and while they still have a use it's slowly being encroached upon by the Stealth and Health rings. Minmatar Scout may be the last bastion of Speed tanking in 1.8 with it's innate code breakers but after that pfft.
I'd like to see speed mean something more in this game. I think the scout community agrees that Stealth > Speed, but to all others do foresee the 1.8 threat to your speed-tanking way of life?
Most definitely. Aim assist itself is a direct nerf to speed tanking. I say this- Minmitar scout is THE speed tanker, give them a 5% buff to sprint and move speed, and to help all scouts who stack kin cats make a better calculation for strafe speed, and reduce aim assist by about 50%.
proposed equation= sprint speed+movement speed/ constant k (which will be some number in between 2.5 and 3)
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3012
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Posted - 2014.02.04 01:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:
Most definitely. Aim assist itself is a direct nerf to speed tanking. I say this- Minmitar scout is THE speed tanker, give them a 5% buff to sprint and move speed, and to help all scouts who stack kin cats make a better calculation for strafe speed, and reduce aim assist by about 50%.
proposed equation= sprint speed+movement speed/ constant k (which will be some number in between 2.5 and 3)
Yes but speed tanking should not really be limited to one suit/frame. I mean I've seen some really fast heavies and they are a force not to be reckoned with. Speed tanking a heavy as long as you pack a logi is a pretty solid set up. But not so much viable in other suits where they don't have such high HP to buffer out.
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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pseudosnipre
576
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Posted - 2014.02.04 02:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:
Most definitely. Aim assist itself is a direct nerf to speed tanking. I say this- Minmitar scout is THE speed tanker, give them a 5% buff to sprint and move speed, and to help all scouts who stack kin cats make a better calculation for strafe speed, and reduce aim assist by about 50%.
proposed equation= sprint speed+movement speed/ constant k (which will be some number in between 2.5 and 3)
Yes but speed tanking should not really be limited to one suit/frame. I mean I've seen some really fast heavies and they are a force not to be reckoned with. Speed tanking a heavy as long as you pack a logi is a pretty solid set up. But not so much viable in other suits where they don't have such high HP to buffer out.
Hit detection on gunners and drivers of LAVs works fine now, so why don't they want to turn up the potential for a fully speed tanked suit? I would love to see them remove the stacking penalty.Although, after living through speed-tanked flaylock logi spam I'm hoping they do a better job of making it a sacrifice to fit.
Today is the sort of day where the sun only comes up to humiliate you.
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Heathen Bastard
The Bastard Brigade
845
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Posted - 2014.02.04 02:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
Speed tanking to me is just being able to run from cover to cover while staying nice and high off the ground. Minmatar parkour scouting!
People never look up when they're getting hit. it's so weird. you get hit from a direction and you turn to it, and then they just turn right back around or fire into the wall. or they spin in place, which is just hilarious.
If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
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Lightning xVx
R 0 N 1 N
358
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Posted - 2014.02.04 02:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
I have used NOTHING BUT SPEED, since Closed Beta. Still efficient and deadly, those who say otherwise are honestly doing it wrong. |
Garth Mandra
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
306
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Posted - 2014.02.04 02:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
4 rings of tanking: stealth, health, biotics and damage.
Hopefully one day 5 once speed is returned. |
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3015
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Posted - 2014.02.04 02:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lightning xVx wrote:I have used NOTHING BUT SPEED, since Closed Beta. Still efficient and deadly, those who say otherwise are honestly doing it wrong.
The question is do you think that the Minmatar scout losing the profile reduction bonus will be the killer of the minmatar scout speed tanking, and thus Stealth > Speed, except you do gain a low slot in 1.8. But still the fact that you can't speed tank without stealth says something.
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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Lightning xVx
R 0 N 1 N
358
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Posted - 2014.02.04 03:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Lightning xVx wrote:I have used NOTHING BUT SPEED, since Closed Beta. Still efficient and deadly, those who say otherwise are honestly doing it wrong. The question is do you think that the Minmatar scout losing the profile reduction bonus will be the killer of the minmatar scout speed tanking, and thus Stealth > Speed, except you do gain a low slot in 1.8. But still the fact that you can't speed tank without stealth says something.
I am aware of this but one thing that the majority of people don't know is; is that there is more then "One-Type" of Stealth. It's Speed Stealth. I have taught only taught a handful of Scouts about it and it is ultimately a very convoluted way of the "Fight or Flight" method that fuses both together. |
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
408
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Posted - 2014.02.04 03:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:
Most definitely. Aim assist itself is a direct nerf to speed tanking. I say this- Minmitar scout is THE speed tanker, give them a 5% buff to sprint and move speed, and to help all scouts who stack kin cats make a better calculation for strafe speed, and reduce aim assist by about 50%.
proposed equation= sprint speed+movement speed/ constant k (which will be some number in between 2.5 and 3)
Yes but speed tanking should not really be limited to one suit/frame. I mean I've seen some really fast heavies and they are a force not to be reckoned with. Speed tanking a heavy as long as you pack a logi is a pretty solid set up. But not so much viable in other suits where they don't have such high HP to buffer out.
Agreed, but min scout should be the best speed tanker in the game right? its kinda what they are designed for i believe
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
408
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Posted - 2014.02.04 03:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Lightning xVx wrote:I have used NOTHING BUT SPEED, since Closed Beta. Still efficient and deadly, those who say otherwise are honestly doing it wrong. The question is do you think that the Minmatar scout losing the profile reduction bonus will be the killer of the minmatar scout speed tanking, and thus Stealth > Speed, except you do gain a low slot in 1.8. But still the fact that you can't speed tank without stealth says something.
The gallente scout will be the speed tanker of 1.8, which is kind of sad. They just have to fit and ADV plat, a proto extender, 3 kin cats, and a damage mod, and they are the best suit in the game. They get 4 free low slots, while minmitar only has 2. Fully shield and speed tanked minmitar that can dodge proto scanners is slower and has less HP than a speed tanked gallente than i mentioned above which passively dodges proto scans.
As a min scout who specced into the role for speed tanking, i don't think this is very fair to the minmitar scouts. We get stuck with the lowest base HP, are forced to use an inferior HP source, and have fewer useful slots (lows) than gallente. In addition, gallente get better fittings, so they can fit a cloak on the aforementioned build if they want an shotgun and SMG and stable scanner, however a minmitar scout cannot if they want to run ishnoks and a basic SMG or stable scanner. This is with fitting skills maxed.
The main problem though is the superiority of a dampening bonus compared to a hacking bonus, and the disparity between armor and shields. Click my sig if you wanna know more about what could fix this
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3016
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Posted - 2014.02.04 03:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
Lightning xVx wrote:
I am aware of this but one thing that the majority of people don't know is; is that there is more then "One-Type" of Stealth. It's Speed Stealth. I have taught only taught a handful of Scouts about it and it is ultimately a very convoluted way of the "Fight or Flight" method that fuses both together.
Hit and run
Edit: But that's outside Ewar Stealth, that's optical stealth, disappearing from sight.
But the challenge is having speed compete against Scans when HP can compete against scans and stealth can too. Being scanned while having low HP ceiling is not good at all.
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3016
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Posted - 2014.02.04 03:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:Lightning xVx wrote:I have used NOTHING BUT SPEED, since Closed Beta. Still efficient and deadly, those who say otherwise are honestly doing it wrong. The question is do you think that the Minmatar scout losing the profile reduction bonus will be the killer of the minmatar scout speed tanking, and thus Stealth > Speed, except you do gain a low slot in 1.8. But still the fact that you can't speed tank without stealth says something. The gallente scout will be the speed tanker of 1.8, which is kind of sad. They just have to fit and ADV plat, a proto extender, 3 kin cats, and a damage mod, and they are the best suit in the game. They get 4 free low slots, while minmitar only has 2. Fully shield and speed tanked minmitar that can dodge proto scanners is slower and has less HP than a speed tanked gallente than i mentioned above which passively dodges proto scans. As a min scout who specced into the role for speed tanking, i don't think this is very fair to the minmitar scouts. We get stuck with the lowest base HP, are forced to use an inferior HP source, and have fewer useful slots (lows) than gallente. In addition, gallente get better fittings, so they can fit a cloak on the aforementioned build if they want an shotgun and SMG and stable scanner, however a minmitar scout cannot if they want to run ishnoks and a basic SMG or stable scanner. This is with fitting skills maxed. The main problem though is the superiority of a dampening bonus compared to a hacking bonus, and the disparity between armor and shields. Click my sig if you wanna know more about what could fix this
3, you get 3 in 1.8
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
408
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Posted - 2014.02.04 03:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:Lightning xVx wrote:I have used NOTHING BUT SPEED, since Closed Beta. Still efficient and deadly, those who say otherwise are honestly doing it wrong. The question is do you think that the Minmatar scout losing the profile reduction bonus will be the killer of the minmatar scout speed tanking, and thus Stealth > Speed, except you do gain a low slot in 1.8. But still the fact that you can't speed tank without stealth says something. The gallente scout will be the speed tanker of 1.8, which is kind of sad. They just have to fit and ADV plat, a proto extender, 3 kin cats, and a damage mod, and they are the best suit in the game. They get 4 free low slots, while minmitar only has 2. Fully shield and speed tanked minmitar that can dodge proto scanners is slower and has less HP than a speed tanked gallente than i mentioned above which passively dodges proto scans. As a min scout who specced into the role for speed tanking, i don't think this is very fair to the minmitar scouts. We get stuck with the lowest base HP, are forced to use an inferior HP source, and have fewer useful slots (lows) than gallente. In addition, gallente get better fittings, so they can fit a cloak on the aforementioned build if they want an shotgun and SMG and stable scanner, however a minmitar scout cannot if they want to run ishnoks and a basic SMG or stable scanner. This is with fitting skills maxed. The main problem though is the superiority of a dampening bonus compared to a hacking bonus, and the disparity between armor and shields. Click my sig if you wanna know more about what could fix this 3, you get 3 in 1.8
yes, but you need one for a dampener, while gallente doesn't. Thats the problem
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3017
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Posted - 2014.02.04 03:49:00 -
[18] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:yes, but you need one for a dampener, while gallente doesn't. Thats the problem
let's not try to nerf the galscout now....
and we are back at point A where Stealth > Speed
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
408
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Posted - 2014.02.04 03:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:yes, but you need one for a dampener, while gallente doesn't. Thats the problem let's not try to nerf the galscout now.... and we are back at point A where Stealth > Speed
I never wanted to nerf the gal scout nononono. The problem is, the minmitar is made for hit and run and speed tanking, but doesn't have the fittings to do so, in other words, shields are not good enough, and their minuscule speed bonus over other suits isGǪ wellGǪ.a paltry way to make up for their suits being gimped in every other way. I seriously encourage you to read my sig link btw, its a long read, but if you stick it out, you'll like it
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Lightning xVx
R 0 N 1 N
361
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Posted - 2014.02.04 04:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:yes, but you need one for a dampener, while gallente doesn't. Thats the problem let's not try to nerf the galscout now.... and we are back at point A where Stealth > Speed I never wanted to nerf the gal scout nononono. The problem is, the minmitar is made for hit and run and speed tanking, but doesn't have the fittings to do so, in other words, shields are not good enough, and their minuscule speed bonus over other suits isGǪ wellGǪ.a paltry way to make up for their suits being gimped in every other way. I seriously encourage you to read my sig link btw, its a long read, but if you stick it out, you'll like it
I made this same argument with Gallente Scouts being OVERALL better (speed, stealth and health) and no one cared. Minmatar Scout (IMO) needs speed in every format. (Shield Recharge or Regulators, Speed and Firing) They are meant for speed and power and all we got was a TINY bit of speed boost and 1 extra low slot that can be pretty much be ran on a Gallente better. |
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
408
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Posted - 2014.02.04 04:02:00 -
[21] - Quote
Lightning xVx wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:yes, but you need one for a dampener, while gallente doesn't. Thats the problem let's not try to nerf the galscout now.... and we are back at point A where Stealth > Speed I never wanted to nerf the gal scout nononono. The problem is, the minmitar is made for hit and run and speed tanking, but doesn't have the fittings to do so, in other words, shields are not good enough, and their minuscule speed bonus over other suits isGǪ wellGǪ.a paltry way to make up for their suits being gimped in every other way. I seriously encourage you to read my sig link btw, its a long read, but if you stick it out, you'll like it I made this same argument with Gallente Scouts being OVERALL better (speed, stealth and health) and no one cared. Minmatar Scout (IMO) needs speed in every format. (Shield Recharge or Regulators, Speed and Firing) They are meant for speed and power and all we got was a TINY bit of speed boost and 1 extra low slot that can be pretty much be ran on a Gallente better.
Finally someone who sees the light :)
its very true, and also very unfortunate, and i agree 10000% with you on this
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Lightning xVx
R 0 N 1 N
362
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Posted - 2014.02.04 04:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Lightning xVx wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:yes, but you need one for a dampener, while gallente doesn't. Thats the problem let's not try to nerf the galscout now.... and we are back at point A where Stealth > Speed I never wanted to nerf the gal scout nononono. The problem is, the minmitar is made for hit and run and speed tanking, but doesn't have the fittings to do so, in other words, shields are not good enough, and their minuscule speed bonus over other suits isGǪ wellGǪ.a paltry way to make up for their suits being gimped in every other way. I seriously encourage you to read my sig link btw, its a long read, but if you stick it out, you'll like it I made this same argument with Gallente Scouts being OVERALL better (speed, stealth and health) and no one cared. Minmatar Scout (IMO) needs speed in every format. (Shield Recharge or Regulators, Speed and Firing) They are meant for speed and power and all we got was a TINY bit of speed boost and 1 extra low slot that can be pretty much be ran on a Gallente better. Finally someone who sees the light :) its very true, and also very unfortunate, and i agree 10000% with you on this
Dear Sir, this argument was made long ago in a topic and it faded away as with every other idea I insisted on only to be resurrected again through another person. Perhaps I should be a complete *******? Seems thats the only way to get CCP's attention. Haha it worked when I talked about how **** Shotguns were awhile back. Oh yes I remember that topic title...."CCP WTF DID YOU DO TO MY SHOTGUN!?1" :) |
Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3019
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Posted - 2014.02.04 04:10:00 -
[23] - Quote
Lightning xVx wrote:
I made this same argument with Gallente Scouts being OVERALL better (speed, stealth and health) and no one cared. Minmatar Scout (IMO) needs speed in every format. (Shield Recharge or Regulators, Speed and Firing) They are meant for speed and power and all we got was a TINY bit of speed boost and 1 extra low slot that can be pretty much be ran on a Gallente better.
While those are forms of speed tanking in a sense, I would call those regenerative tanking because I do it on my Galscout with armor reps. I don't I agree with the Minmatar Speed-Freak being so broad. I currently agree with their 1.8 bonus because having that fast of a hack on a scout would make CRU hacking way more viable, especially since all scouts get 1.1 bonus anyways.
I believe all forms of scouts are about speed sort of. Regenerative Caldari, Gallente, and Amarr doing Shield Regen, Armor Regen, stamina regen respectively. While the Minmatar gets the cherry on top with sublime speed and hacking *******. And yes, currently the Gallente Scout is overall more viable but don't hold that against us or anyone really even if you weren't. With only two current scouts one was bound to outshine the other. Now with a variety mix and completely turned on its head the scouts will have to be reevaluated however speed tanking on a whole looks more and more unappealing to me, a stealth/scan "tanker?" in 1.8 because it looks so biased in my favor, especially if CCP wouldn't be reducing all scout profiles.
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
408
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Posted - 2014.02.04 04:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
Lightning xVx wrote:
Dear Sir, this argument was made long ago in a topic and it faded away as with every other idea I insisted on only to be resurrected again through another person. Perhaps I should be a complete *******? Seems thats the only way to get CCP's attention. Haha it worked when I talked about how **** Shotguns were awhile back. Oh yes I remember that topic title...."CCP WTF DID YOU DO TO MY SHOTGUN!?1" :)
Yeup iv made and helped several threads about SG's too.
My proposed fixes are +2 pellets at ADV, +4 at proto, increase spread by a little, increase effective range by 5 meters, optimal by 2-3 meters
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
408
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Posted - 2014.02.04 04:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Lightning xVx wrote:
I made this same argument with Gallente Scouts being OVERALL better (speed, stealth and health) and no one cared. Minmatar Scout (IMO) needs speed in every format. (Shield Recharge or Regulators, Speed and Firing) They are meant for speed and power and all we got was a TINY bit of speed boost and 1 extra low slot that can be pretty much be ran on a Gallente better.
While those are forms of speed tanking in a sense, I would call those regenerative tanking because I do it on my Galscout with armor reps. I don't I agree with the Minmatar Speed-Freak being so broad. I currently agree with their 1.8 bonus because having that fast of a hack on a scout would make CRU hacking way more viable, especially since all scouts get 1.1 bonus anyways. I believe all forms of scouts are about speed sort of. Regenerative Caldari, Gallente, and Amarr doing Shield Regen, Armor Regen, stamina regen respectively. While the Minmatar gets the cherry on top with sublime speed and hacking *******. And yes, currently the Gallente Scout is overall more viable but don't hold that against us or anyone really even if you weren't. With only two current scouts one was bound to outshine the other. Now with a variety mix and completely turned on its head the scouts will have to be reevaluated however speed tanking on a whole looks more and more unappealing to me, a stealth/scan "tanker?" in 1.8 because it looks so biased in my favor, especially if CCP wouldn't be reducing all scout profiles.
Gallente everything will be FoTM come 1.8, i can guarantee it. I just hope for your sake that nyan san doesn't decode to start running gk.0 scouts with 4x adv plates, and 2x damage mods with rail rifles and cloaks. However, this does seem like what will happen
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3019
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Posted - 2014.02.04 04:16:00 -
[26] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:
Gallente everything will be FoTM come 1.8, i can guarantee it. I just hope for your sake that nyan san doesn't decode to start running gk.0 scouts with 4x adv plates, and 2x damage mods with rail rifles and cloaks. However, this does seem like what will happen
Actually Caldari Scout will be FOTM
4 Shield Extenders, Shield Regulators, <2 seconds shield delay with the highest shield regen on a dropsuit.
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
408
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Posted - 2014.02.04 04:18:00 -
[27] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:
Gallente everything will be FoTM come 1.8, i can guarantee it. I just hope for your sake that nyan san doesn't decode to start running gk.0 scouts with 4x adv plates, and 2x damage mods with rail rifles and cloaks. However, this does seem like what will happen
Actually Caldari Scout will be FOTM 4 Shield Extenders, Shield Regulators, <2 seconds shield delay with the highest shield regen on a dropsuit.
and they will be one shotted by a scrambler rifle on an amarr commando
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3019
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Posted - 2014.02.04 04:24:00 -
[28] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:
Gallente everything will be FoTM come 1.8, i can guarantee it. I just hope for your sake that nyan san doesn't decode to start running gk.0 scouts with 4x adv plates, and 2x damage mods with rail rifles and cloaks. However, this does seem like what will happen
Actually Caldari Scout will be FOTM 4 Shield Extenders, Shield Regulators, <2 seconds shield delay with the highest shield regen on a dropsuit. and they will be one shotted by a scrambler rifle on an amarr commando. Shields are not good enough to be FoTM but a cal scout with 1x PD, 1x range, 2x precision, and 2x extenders with a proto cloak will be really good IMO
Hell I get charge sniper OHK'd right now anyways and I have run 4 enhanced plates on a scout before and really was nothing very FOTM appealing. Really it goes toe to toe but coming across any CR, HMG, railgun in the open pretty much negates it.
That's a point where speed does come in handy, like previously mentioned, escape. But stealth will do in a snap if you are in the cities.
I'm trying to look out for the sake of speed tanking in 1.8 Lightning and in your honest opinion, simple yes/no, do you think it will be viable in 1.8 without much mixing into HP or Stealth.
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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Denn Maell
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
144
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Posted - 2014.02.04 04:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:
Gallente everything will be FoTM come 1.8, i can guarantee it. I just hope for your sake that nyan san doesn't decode to start running gk.0 scouts with 4x adv plates, and 2x damage mods with rail rifles and cloaks. However, this does seem like what will happen
Actually Caldari Scout will be FOTM 4 Shield Extenders, Shield Regulators, <2 seconds shield delay with the highest shield regen on a dropsuit.
One thing that has my attention peaked is CalScout's scan range and Precision (proposed)bonus. In a world where all scouts are being 'encouraged' to cloak they will essentially have the best chance of seeing the enemy even while invisible. Nothing about Caldari indicates to me that they won't be FotM in 1.8
The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field:
One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
408
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Posted - 2014.02.04 04:42:00 -
[30] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:
Gallente everything will be FoTM come 1.8, i can guarantee it. I just hope for your sake that nyan san doesn't decode to start running gk.0 scouts with 4x adv plates, and 2x damage mods with rail rifles and cloaks. However, this does seem like what will happen
Actually Caldari Scout will be FOTM 4 Shield Extenders, Shield Regulators, <2 seconds shield delay with the highest shield regen on a dropsuit. and they will be one shotted by a scrambler rifle on an amarr commando. Shields are not good enough to be FoTM but a cal scout with 1x PD, 1x range, 2x precision, and 2x extenders with a proto cloak will be really good IMO Hell I get charge sniper OHK'd right now anyways and I have run 4 enhanced plates on a scout before and really was nothing very FOTM appealing. Really it goes toe to toe but coming across any CR, HMG, railgun in the open pretty much negates it. That's a point where speed does come in handy, like previously mentioned, escape. But stealth will do in a snap if you are in the cities. I'm trying to look out for the sake of speed tanking in 1.8 Lightning and in your honest opinion, simple yes/no, do you think it will be viable in 1.8 without much mixing into HP or Stealth.
no except for the very few like lighting and a few others, and even then it won't be as good as stealth
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Marston VC
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
1545
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Posted - 2014.02.04 04:44:00 -
[31] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Do you speed tankers believe that 1.8 might kill speed tanking further? The common saying is "Speed tanking is fun but dead". Currently this is due to issues from back in Chromosome with the Keanu Reeves Scouts and hit detection. However speed is definitely useful, for instance escapes.
But that is currently one of the two best uses for speed tanking: Escaping and getting around. Other than that pretty useless given that Kin Cats only effect sprint. On the other side of things, Stealth and health are both good for escaping and attacking/biting back. Seeing as how vehicles offer the best mode of getting around anyways, Speed has the short end of the stick (strictly infantry)
I don't see many speed tanked suits unless they are completely CQC oriented but even then it's a rarity. Seeing as 1.8 CCP plans to make a big push for more Stealth/EWar, while giving bonuses to suits for health/resistance, is it a fair assessment to say that 1.8 will cut out half of speed tanking?
I can see speed tanking in the sense of Codebreakers still viable but other than that will it last in the game of mighty HP and super sleuths? I haven't seen anyone discuss the outcomes of speed in 1.8 and how it will effect the Bottle Users, while obvious buffs in Stealth and Health are made.
I like this game in it's 3 ring approach, stealth health and biotics. But currently even biotics are dwarfed by the other rings and while they still have a use it's slowly being encroached upon by the Stealth and Health rings. Minmatar Scout may be the last bastion of Speed tanking in 1.8 with it's innate code breakers but after that pfft.
I'd like to see speed mean something more in this game. I think the scout community agrees that Stealth > Speed, but to all others do foresee the 1.8 threat to your speed-tanking way of life?
BTW I don't speed tank I'm stealth / passive scanning
Does my 9.28 m/s minmatar logi count? Its kind of...... fragile. But I like to look at it as a scout with twice as much health and four times as much equipment ;)
Marston VC, STB Director
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Lightning xVx
R 0 N 1 N
362
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Posted - 2014.02.04 04:51:00 -
[32] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:
Gallente everything will be FoTM come 1.8, i can guarantee it. I just hope for your sake that nyan san doesn't decode to start running gk.0 scouts with 4x adv plates, and 2x damage mods with rail rifles and cloaks. However, this does seem like what will happen
Actually Caldari Scout will be FOTM 4 Shield Extenders, Shield Regulators, <2 seconds shield delay with the highest shield regen on a dropsuit. and they will be one shotted by a scrambler rifle on an amarr commando. Shields are not good enough to be FoTM but a cal scout with 1x PD, 1x range, 2x precision, and 2x extenders with a proto cloak will be really good IMO Hell I get charge sniper OHK'd right now anyways and I have run 4 enhanced plates on a scout before and really was nothing very FOTM appealing. Really it goes toe to toe but coming across any CR, HMG, railgun in the open pretty much negates it. That's a point where speed does come in handy, like previously mentioned, escape. But stealth will do in a snap if you are in the cities. I'm trying to look out for the sake of speed tanking in 1.8 Lightning and in your honest opinion, simple yes/no, do you think it will be viable in 1.8 without much mixing into HP or Stealth.
Honestly, I run shields and speed; that's all about what I have on me. Do I think Speed will be viable in 1.8? Speculation for ME (IMO) yes. Because that is what I know, have done and always WILL DO in DUST 514. (or anything for that matter it's my nature) as for others.....I can't say. |
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
408
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Posted - 2014.02.04 04:57:00 -
[33] - Quote
i just want a bump to min speed and reduce the pg cost of shields (its ludicrous)
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Fiddlestaxp
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
369
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Posted - 2014.02.04 05:06:00 -
[34] - Quote
Speed tanking is indeed dead. If they make it any worse, it will still be dead. Time to kill is too low for it to be effective and scanners have made it so that sneaking around is virtually impossible unless you load up on damps.... which you cant do if you are loaded up on Kin Cats and Cardiac Regulators. And then you have to try to fit a decent shield tank on top of that (Which will undoubtedly only amount to two complex shield extenders) And then fit a weapon...
Oh and the reason why you speed tank is to act as a forward scout, to destroy uplinks and place your own... Only real choice is to have a scanner or uplinks as equipment -- preferably both.
Speed tanking was VERY good at counter-uplink play. Now it is good at dying 15+ times a match. |
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
408
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Posted - 2014.02.04 05:08:00 -
[35] - Quote
unless we get reduced aim assist and a bump to minmitar scout speed and reduced fitting costs of shield extenders, it will be a dying and dead breed
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Kharga Lum
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Northern Army.
279
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Posted - 2014.02.04 05:24:00 -
[36] - Quote
Speed is crippled by damage. Taking damage slows you. Being slow makes it easier for you to take damage keeping you slow. |
Lightning xVx
R 0 N 1 N
362
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Posted - 2014.02.04 05:28:00 -
[37] - Quote
Well I guess I am the ONLY dedicated Speed Tanking Scout then. |
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2144
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Posted - 2014.02.04 09:54:00 -
[38] - Quote
Aim assist and bullet magnetism in 1.4
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Appia Vibbia
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
921
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Posted - 2014.02.04 10:22:00 -
[39] - Quote
Lightning xVx wrote:I have used NOTHING BUT SPEED, since Closed Beta. Still efficient and deadly, those who say otherwise are honestly doing it wrong.
Says the guy that quit the game when Aim Assist was at its strongest
Appia Vibbia for CPM1
[email protected] (checked every Monday morning)
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Appia Vibbia
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
923
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Posted - 2014.02.04 11:39:00 -
[40] - Quote
I have 2 speed suits. 2 reds, a green, and a codebreaker or 3 reds and a green. Flux uplinks to go with them. The suit has 1 job, to get to the uncapped points at the start of a skirmish. I'll hack the nearest objective, switch to a speed suit with gauged uplinks, and never use it again.
The first big hit to speed tanking was the change of a 1 second delay to stamina regen from sprinting, the second was aim assist, and now hit-detection is at its most effective ever. 5 rail rifle bullets or 2 bursts from a combat rifle kill my suits, all hit with enhanced accuracy.
The cloak will do well to bring back speed tanking. regardless of "shimmer" it is 30/60/80 seconds of electronic cloak without taking up a low slot for a dampener. Rumors of reduction to weapon damage, if proven true, will give everyone more time find cover if spotted. And fixing the scanners to work as originally intended, having a "snapshot" effect, will reduce the scan spam.
What I think will be a great incentive for me, though, is the return of the 6th slot of proto scouts. I've had the utmost level of hate for the Minmatar Scout since May. It is just such a bad suit. 1.8 makes me take back all my hate because it has become my lovely Scout Vk.0 again.
lol Gal Scout with 2 complex shield extenders will have 232 shields, 162 armor and 4 kincats bring it to 11.11m/s
Min scout with 3 complex shield extenders will have 354 shields and 87 armor, and 3 kincats bring it to 11.11m/s
So max sprint will be the same while the Min scout gets 47 more HP. though change a red for a green and speeds drop to 10.37 and 10.72 respectively. Though unless you're using an Allotek Plasma Cannon and Core Flaylock pistol you won't be able to fit proto weapons or EQ other than a nanohive with an ADV cloak.
Appia Vibbia for CPM1
[email protected] (checked every Monday morning)
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
416
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Posted - 2014.02.04 12:22:00 -
[41] - Quote
Lightning xVx wrote:Well I guess I am the ONLY dedicated Speed Tanking Scout then. And average deaths and kills normally DO NOT exceed over 15+ deaths. (For me) I have killed even numerous enemies IN WIDE OPEN spaces. And have succeeded, is Speed Tanking dead? NO. Is it poorly used? YES. While CCP should buff it with suits and just in general, it takes a different mindset when doing it.
Im not saying its useless, i regularly go 15-3, 15-5, 25-4, etc with my basic minmitar scout suit speed tanking, however, its not as effective as it should be. By dead, i mean that no one will use it because of how much skill and practice it takes
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
416
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Posted - 2014.02.04 12:24:00 -
[42] - Quote
Appia Vibbia wrote:I have 2 speed suits. 2 reds, a green, and a codebreaker or 3 reds and a green. Flux uplinks to go with them. The suit has 1 job, to get to the uncapped points at the start of a skirmish. I'll hack the nearest objective, switch to a speed suit with gauged uplinks, and never use it again.
The first big hit to speed tanking was the change of a 1 second delay to stamina regen from sprinting, the second was aim assist, and now hit-detection is at its most effective ever. 5 rail rifle bullets or 2 bursts from a combat rifle kill my suits, all hit with enhanced accuracy.
The cloak will do well to bring back speed tanking. regardless of "shimmer" it is 30/60/80 seconds of electronic cloak without taking up a low slot for a dampener. Rumors of reduction to weapon damage, if proven true, will give everyone more time find cover if spotted. And fixing the scanners to work as originally intended, having a "snapshot" effect, will reduce the scan spam.
What I think will be a great incentive for me, though, is the return of the 6th slot of proto scouts. I've had the utmost level of hate for the Minmatar Scout since May. It is just such a bad suit. 1.8 makes me take back all my hate because it has become my lovely Scout Vk.0 again.
lol Gal Scout with 2 complex shield extenders will have 232 shields, 162 armor and 4 kincats bring it to 11.11m/s
Min scout with 3 complex shield extenders will have 354 shields and 87 armor, and 3 kincats bring it to 11.11m/s
So max sprint will be the same while the Min scout gets 47 more HP. though change a red for a green and speeds drop to 10.37 and 10.72 respectively. Though unless you're using an Allotek Plasma Cannon and Core Flaylock pistol you won't be able to fit proto weapons or EQ other than a nanohive with an ADV cloak.
thats the problem right there
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Rei Shepard
The Rainbow Effect
1568
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Posted - 2014.02.04 12:35:00 -
[43] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Do you speed tankers believe that 1.8 might kill speed tanking further? The common saying is "Speed tanking is fun but dead". Currently this is due to issues from back in Chromosome with the Keanu Reeves Scouts and hit detection. However speed is definitely useful, for instance escapes.
But that is currently one of the two best uses for speed tanking: Escaping and getting around. Other than that pretty useless given that Kin Cats only effect sprint. On the other side of things, Stealth and health are both good for escaping and attacking/biting back. Seeing as how vehicles offer the best mode of getting around anyways, Speed has the short end of the stick (strictly infantry)
I don't see many speed tanked suits unless they are completely CQC oriented but even then it's a rarity. Seeing as 1.8 CCP plans to make a big push for more Stealth/EWar, while giving bonuses to suits for health/resistance, is it a fair assessment to say that 1.8 will cut out half of speed tanking?
I can see speed tanking in the sense of Codebreakers still viable but other than that will it last in the game of mighty HP and super sleuths? I haven't seen anyone discuss the outcomes of speed in 1.8 and how it will effect the Bottle Users, while obvious buffs in Stealth and Health are made.
I like this game in it's 3 ring approach, stealth health and biotics. But currently even biotics are dwarfed by the other rings and while they still have a use it's slowly being encroached upon by the Stealth and Health rings. Minmatar Scout may be the last bastion of Speed tanking in 1.8 with it's innate code breakers but after that pfft.
I'd like to see speed mean something more in this game. I think the scout community agrees that Stealth > Speed, but to all others do foresee the 1.8 threat to your speed-tanking way of life?
BTW I don't speed tank I'm stealth / passive scanning
Most of my suits since 1.7 are speed suits in a sense that they don't make my movement speed slower then that Armor platers can make me, while stacking Ferro plates, but before that i ran Complex plates.
The slight movement strafe speed i keep up to, allows me to get out of the LOCKONS that happen with the new aim assist, with 2 plex plates i strafe too slow to get out of a lock at times and the 121 extra armor doesnt do a whole lot when yer locked onto.
But to use cats, thats a waste of a slot.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
"Accuracy"
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DTOracle
BlackWater Liquidations
INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
209
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Posted - 2014.02.04 13:12:00 -
[44] - Quote
With the 3rd low slot on my Min scout, I will definitely be speed tanking in 1.8. But whether it will be more viable than stealth, only time will tell. Though I doubt it personally. |
Lightning xVx
R 0 N 1 N
363
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Posted - 2014.02.04 14:57:00 -
[45] - Quote
Appia Vibbia wrote:Lightning xVx wrote:I have used NOTHING BUT SPEED, since Closed Beta. Still efficient and deadly, those who say otherwise are honestly doing it wrong. Says the guy that quit the game when Aim Assist was at its strongest
I quit, because I was fed up with CCP's direction. Especially after talking with Jenza when she randomly joined a squad I was in. I asked her a few questions and her response to Scouts was unsatisfying. And Aim Assist is still a problem but I still almost always come first in every game. |
Lightning xVx
R 0 N 1 N
363
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Posted - 2014.02.04 15:07:00 -
[46] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Lightning xVx wrote:Well I guess I am the ONLY dedicated Speed Tanking Scout then. And average deaths and kills normally DO NOT exceed over 15+ deaths. (For me) I have killed even numerous enemies IN WIDE OPEN spaces. And have succeeded, is Speed Tanking dead? NO. Is it poorly used? YES. While CCP should buff it with suits and just in general, it takes a different mindset when doing it. Im not saying its useless, i regularly go 15-3, 15-5, 25-4, etc with my basic minmitar scout suit speed tanking, however, its not as effective as it should be. By dead, i mean that no one will use it because of how much skill and practice it takes
Your, absolutely right in regards to no one even remotely using it past the first objective. It doesn't make sense to me as to why people skill up into Kin Cats and then not even use it anymore. Scouts lately have become too dependent on E-war/Armor and not anymore on their natural instincts and Speed. Will 1.8 possibly have an influx on Scouts? Probably. But when it does I will be there in the same speed set up I am in now. |
Master Smurf
Nos Nothi
79
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Posted - 2014.02.04 15:09:00 -
[47] - Quote
Fiddlestaxp wrote:Speed tanking is indeed dead. If they make it any worse, it will still be dead. Time to kill is too low for it to be effective and scanners have made it so that sneaking around is virtually impossible unless you load up on damps.... which you cant do if you are loaded up on Kin Cats and Cardiac Regulators. And then you have to try to fit a decent shield tank on top of that (Which will undoubtedly only amount to two complex shield extenders) And then fit a weapon...
Oh and the reason why you speed tank is to act as a forward scout, to destroy uplinks and place your own... Only real choice is to have a scanner or uplinks as equipment -- preferably both.
Speed tanking was VERY good at counter-uplink play. Now it is good at dying 15+ times a match.
Edit: My experience is with a minmitar Logi. Which was the best scout suit because of versatility. It preformed the scout role better than scouts. Now it is great at getting gibbed.
I saw a duo doing this a few weeks ago in a LAV - a scout or logi can do this by themselves in a LAV
I always thought that vehicles deploy way too quickly and dont allow fast suits enough time to reach anywhere significant before them. As a scout I can usually reach the first objective but only if there is no hiccups with my deploy.
On the question.
I think Speed will be ok for moving between hotspots during matches for any suits with 3 low slots. Its why the Min Scout Pro is looking better to me to use sometimes. Most scouts should be fine however now even without using 3 slots. The increased stamina regen which I pleaded for in every scout thread will make twin kin cats more appealing as you wont have to plan out each sprint so not to be twiddling thumbs at the end of said sprint.
In combat however there will be no real change unless aim assist is lessened, more cover is introduced and terrain traversal is sorted out
"Shine bright like a diamond"
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Drapedup Drippedout
0uter.Heaven
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
300
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 15:11:00 -
[48] - Quote
With TTK increasing, and base speeds increasing...I think its safe to assume that you will see speed tanking make a significant comeback. (To the skilled, it never left). |
Master Smurf
Nos Nothi
79
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Posted - 2014.02.04 15:24:00 -
[49] - Quote
Lightning xVx wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Lightning xVx wrote:Well I guess I am the ONLY dedicated Speed Tanking Scout then. And average deaths and kills normally DO NOT exceed over 15+ deaths. (For me) I have killed even numerous enemies IN WIDE OPEN spaces. And have succeeded, is Speed Tanking dead? NO. Is it poorly used? YES. While CCP should buff it with suits and just in general, it takes a different mindset when doing it. Im not saying its useless, i regularly go 15-3, 15-5, 25-4, etc with my basic minmitar scout suit speed tanking, however, its not as effective as it should be. By dead, i mean that no one will use it because of how much skill and practice it takes Your, absolutely right in regards to no one even remotely using it past the first objective. It doesn't make sense to me as to why people skill up into Kin Cats and then not even use it anymore. Scouts lately have become too dependent on E-war/Armor and not anymore on their natural instincts and Speed. Will 1.8 possibly have an influx on Scouts? Probably. But when it does I will be there in the same speed set up I am in now.
You cant blame them much when you see someone, turn to escape and you are gunned down by a few bullets. The speed difference is not great enough for most to consider. AA, weapon ranges, vehicles, LoS all make it easy to counter so people will stack HP and DMG to win the arms race.
People will continue to move to what is most effective - from speed to shields and then to armor and damage mods. I see 1.8 as a rise in stealth. Not only because of cloak but more so the nerf of the scanner. Speed used in conjunction will make those users very scary because cloak will (or should) trump LoS with respect to tac net.
"Shine bright like a diamond"
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Appia Vibbia
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
936
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Posted - 2014.02.04 15:44:00 -
[50] - Quote
Lightning xVx wrote:Appia Vibbia wrote:Lightning xVx wrote:I have used NOTHING BUT SPEED, since Closed Beta. Still efficient and deadly, those who say otherwise are honestly doing it wrong. Says the guy that quit the game when Aim Assist was at its strongest I quit, because I was fed up with CCP's direction. Especially after talking with Jenza when she randomly joined a squad I was in. I asked her a few questions and her response to Scouts was unsatisfying. And Aim Assist is still a problem but I still almost always come first in every game. The point was not that you took a hiatus, but when you took it. I'd like to see how your speed tank fared then. But you're also confusing personal skill with viability. I can regularly get a 3.50+KDR with a plasma cannon and flaylock pistol on a C-1 Assault. Does that make it viable? No, it means that either I am a good play or that the other people are bad players.DTOracle wrote:With the 3rd low slot on my Min scout, I will definitely be speed tanking in 1.8. But whether it will be more viable than stealth, only time will tell. Though I doubt it personally. I'm telling you, 40 cpu and 9 pg is a cheap price to pay for 30 seconds of electronic invisibility to proto scanners. the cloak is going to be a great active dampener.
Appia Vibbia for CPM1
[email protected] (checked every Monday morning)
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Lightning xVx
R 0 N 1 N
363
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Posted - 2014.02.04 16:02:00 -
[51] - Quote
Appia Vibbia wrote:Lightning xVx wrote:Appia Vibbia wrote:Lightning xVx wrote:I have used NOTHING BUT SPEED, since Closed Beta. Still efficient and deadly, those who say otherwise are honestly doing it wrong. Says the guy that quit the game when Aim Assist was at its strongest I quit, because I was fed up with CCP's direction. Especially after talking with Jenza when she randomly joined a squad I was in. I asked her a few questions and her response to Scouts was unsatisfying. And Aim Assist is still a problem but I still almost always come first in every game. The point was not that you took a hiatus, but when you took it. I'd like to see how your speed tank fared then. But you're also confusing personal skill with viability. I can regularly get a 3.50+KDR with a plasma cannon and flaylock pistol on a C-1 Assault. Does that make it viable? No, it means that either I am a good play or that the other people are bad players. DTOracle wrote:With the 3rd low slot on my Min scout, I will definitely be speed tanking in 1.8. But whether it will be more viable than stealth, only time will tell. Though I doubt it personally. I'm telling you, 40 cpu and 9 pg is a cheap price to pay for 30 seconds of electronic invisibility to proto scanners. the cloak is going to be a great active dampener.
My speed tanking had gone just the same as every other game when I returned, nothing had really changed. But a lot was going on during the time before I had left but as I stated that final conversation with Jenza was ultimately the main reason. It felt like I was investing my time into a game/developer that only catered to the Mass. (Assault Vehicles/ Logi/ Heavy) And the Kin Cats (stated again IMO) are viable it's just that the mass amount of people do not know how to properly use it. (Which could be good or bad) Could it be improved? YES absolutely, but remember it still takes a different kind of mindset/player to use it. And what fears me about "New" Stealth (i.e. Cloak/Dampners) is that Scout will be SPAMMING it and it will get out of hand with: CAMPING. |
Master Smurf
Nos Nothi
79
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Posted - 2014.02.04 16:15:00 -
[52] - Quote
How is the right way to use kin cats ?
You cant run away from people if they are even half decent at shooting.
Any other instance you are already using stealth even though it isnt a module. Many have determined that they already can do that with much more tank and even more firepower. You claiming some knowledge that so many others dont possess is...
Please just tell us so veteran players can agree or shoot it down.
My take is you are just a good FPS player who uses their smarts and gun game to excel. The same thing other good players have done with the scout suit through different methods.
"Shine bright like a diamond"
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
1167
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Posted - 2014.02.04 16:25:00 -
[53] - Quote
If TTK is tuned up... Only If TTK is tuned up.
Then we will see commandos running at 7 m/s.
Prepare for 1.8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPhISgw3I2w
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4426
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Posted - 2014.02.04 16:30:00 -
[54] - Quote
As long as Aim Assist exists, speed tanking will always be UP.
I believe that removing AA, allowing Kinetic Catalyzers to affect strafing speed, and increasing TTK will bring speed tanking to a better place.
Want to know how to make a strike-through?
[s[Example[/s]
Now go my Forum Warriors. Use this new weapon for glory!
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ugg reset
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
474
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Posted - 2014.02.04 17:01:00 -
[55] - Quote
can we please leave speed tanking in EVEGäó where it belongs? It makes since that it's hard to hit a ship the size of a small house moving at 6000 mph from 30 miles away. But Dust doesn't scale down anywhere near that.
Thr33 is the magic number.
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
418
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Posted - 2014.02.04 17:13:00 -
[56] - Quote
Atiim wrote:As long as Aim Assist exists, speed tanking will always be UP.
I believe that removing AA, allowing Kinetic Catalyzers to affect strafing speed, and increasing TTK will bring speed tanking to a better place.
Great ideas :)
Thats what I've been advocating for for a while
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
418
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Posted - 2014.02.04 17:17:00 -
[57] - Quote
Appia Vibbia wrote:Lightning xVx wrote:Appia Vibbia wrote:Lightning xVx wrote:I have used NOTHING BUT SPEED, since Closed Beta. Still efficient and deadly, those who say otherwise are honestly doing it wrong. Says the guy that quit the game when Aim Assist was at its strongest I quit, because I was fed up with CCP's direction. Especially after talking with Jenza when she randomly joined a squad I was in. I asked her a few questions and her response to Scouts was unsatisfying. And Aim Assist is still a problem but I still almost always come first in every game. The point was not that you took a hiatus, but when you took it. I'd like to see how your speed tank fared then. But you're also confusing personal skill with viability. I can regularly get a 3.50+KDR with a plasma cannon and flaylock pistol on a C-1 Assault. Does that make it viable? No, it means that either I am a good play or that the other people are bad players. DTOracle wrote:With the 3rd low slot on my Min scout, I will definitely be speed tanking in 1.8. But whether it will be more viable than stealth, only time will tell. Though I doubt it personally. I'm telling you, 40 cpu and 9 pg is a cheap price to pay for 30 seconds of electronic invisibility to proto scanners. the cloak is going to be a great active dampener.
You won't be able to fit it with 3x kin cats and 3x shields. not enough pg on minmitar. Go gallente if you want to be able to cloak and sprint fast
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Fiddlestaxp
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
370
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Posted - 2014.02.04 17:20:00 -
[58] - Quote
Best fix would be to lower HMG and AR/CR/SCR/RR damage. Would bring them more into line with other weapons AND help bring back previously viable play styles. |
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
421
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Posted - 2014.02.04 17:23:00 -
[59] - Quote
buff minmitar speed PLEASE. That is all i ask for, along with lower pg for shield extenders so that i can use kin cats and have more than 200 shield, and fit a cloak
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Master Smurf
Nos Nothi
81
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Posted - 2014.02.04 17:27:00 -
[60] - Quote
Fiddlestaxp wrote:Best fix would be to lower HMG and AR/CR/SCR/RR damage. Would bring them more into line with other weapons AND help bring back previously viable play styles.
You forgot SMG and the soon to be deployed MagSec
"Shine bright like a diamond"
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Assault Chileanme
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
46
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Posted - 2014.02.04 17:33:00 -
[61] - Quote
So would speed tanking become worth it if scanners produced periodic pings of scanned targets rather than fixed location locks? By that I mean it only refreshes the scanned targets location every 1 second (depending on scanner used and such) so that if you are speed tanked you could still have a decent element of surprise vs scanners? |
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
425
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Posted - 2014.02.04 17:39:00 -
[62] - Quote
Master Smurf wrote:Fiddlestaxp wrote:Best fix would be to lower HMG and AR/CR/SCR/RR damage. Would bring them more into line with other weapons AND help bring back previously viable play styles. You forgot SMG and the soon to be deployed MagSec
The SMG is good DPS wise, given its short range, and its dps is actually really low (about 350, whereas the assault rifle is 420). The MAgsec has more dps than a gek-38 and more range to boot
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
425
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Posted - 2014.02.04 17:41:00 -
[63] - Quote
Assault Chileanme wrote:So would speed tanking become worth it if scanners produced periodic pings of scanned targets rather than fixed location locks? By that I mean it only refreshes the scanned targets location every 1 second (depending on scanner used and such) so that if you are speed tanked you could still have a decent element of surprise vs scanners?
You wouldn't have an element of surprise, they know where you are
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
425
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Posted - 2014.02.04 17:49:00 -
[64] - Quote
Gallente- best at everything compared to other scouts other than scanning
Caldari- a Proto active scanner functioning at all times with best shields in the game
Minmitar-The inferior gallente scout with a bonus to hacking and gimped weaponry
Ammarr-The inferior gallente scout with a bonus to stamina and hp
But don't worry the minmitar scout can speed tank, and the ammar scout's extra health is super useful
The only reason the amarr scout is better than minmitar is because of its better slot load out. Gallente, however, has the best slot load out, the best fitting capabilities, the best stealth abilities, and the best hp and speed ratio.
Currently, all scouts except gallente have -1 low slot because a dampener is necessary for survival. the gallente can now put on an adv plate, and 3x kin cats, whereas the minmitar, the speed tanker, can only put on two. Now the gallente scout is faster than the min scout, and has inherent armor repair. Then, all they need is a shield extender and a damage mod. The gallente scout now has enough cpu and pg to fit a cloak and active scanner (stable). A minmitar scout now trying to catch up to the gallente scouts hp uses 3x complex shield extenders. Now, with maxed out fitting skills, they have 17 pg left, 11 if they want the scanner, whereas the gallente has 26. Now the basic cloak costs 9 pg with maxed out scout skills. The minmitar can now run a basic cloak and a flay lock pistol, and the gallente scout can run a proto specialist shotgun, an SMG, and a cloak.
Does this sound fair?
Amarr scouts at least have a better fitting option compared to minmitar
Had to post it here, for easy reading for the people who think that amarr and minmitar scouts are balanced against caldari and gallente.
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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OZAROW
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
1341
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Posted - 2014.02.04 18:00:00 -
[65] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:Lightning xVx wrote:I have used NOTHING BUT SPEED, since Closed Beta. Still efficient and deadly, those who say otherwise are honestly doing it wrong. The question is do you think that the Minmatar scout losing the profile reduction bonus will be the killer of the minmatar scout speed tanking, and thus Stealth > Speed, except you do gain a low slot in 1.8. But still the fact that you can't speed tank without stealth says something. The gallente scout will be the speed tanker of 1.8, which is kind of sad. They just have to fit and ADV plat, a proto extender, 3 kin cats, and a damage mod, and they are the best suit in the game. They get 4 free low slots, while minmitar only has 2. Fully shield and speed tanked minmitar that can dodge proto scanners is slower and has less HP than a speed tanked gallente than i mentioned above which passively dodges proto scans. As a min scout who specced into the role for speed tanking, i don't think this is very fair to the minmitar scouts. We get stuck with the lowest base HP, are forced to use an inferior HP source, and have fewer useful slots (lows) than gallente. In addition, gallente get better fittings, so they can fit a cloak on the aforementioned build if they want an shotgun and SMG and stable scanner, however a minmitar scout cannot if they want to run ishnoks and a basic SMG or stable scanner. This is with fitting skills maxed. The main problem though is the superiority of a dampening bonus compared to a hacking bonus, and the disparity between armor and shields. Click my sig if you wanna know more about what could fix this
Trust me min scouts are gonna be deadly come 1.8, sure the gal has more lows an it's getting another high slot, but say speed tanking it isn't gonna be as viable as you think, the min got a base movement speed increase which leads one to believe our base sprint will be faster.
So say you want 3x kinetics on a gallente, a regulator an 2x comp shields to make up for the armor that's gonna kill CPU an pg to fit 2 weapons an equip just to run aprox 10.73, the min runs 10.38 now without the base stat change, plus cloak has a 25% reduction to profile, so with skills up an a cloak an three kinetics an stacking penalties it's safe to say you could almost run 11.38? Won't know till we see the full stats but lets just say it does, an you can still fit 3x shields an be under 28 your still gonna have 400+ HP an be fast as hell, sure the gall has more lows an better base stats as far as its range, profile an 3 HP goes, but you gotta use the suit according to its bonuses, now that min is the hacker even if you get scanned you gotta just book if scanned but with a 35 base db an pd to 5 an a cloak it shouldn't be to hard hide.
Personally I ll run armor on mine an 2 speed, still run + ten, 343 shields 180 armor with a cloak re knives an a CR
BUT even in the gal I'd rather hide than be fast, it all depends on if you still die once you turned a corner.
SUPER NOVA KNIFE SAIYAN 4
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
425
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Posted - 2014.02.04 18:03:00 -
[66] - Quote
OZAROW wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:Lightning xVx wrote:I have used NOTHING BUT SPEED, since Closed Beta. Still efficient and deadly, those who say otherwise are honestly doing it wrong. The question is do you think that the Minmatar scout losing the profile reduction bonus will be the killer of the minmatar scout speed tanking, and thus Stealth > Speed, except you do gain a low slot in 1.8. But still the fact that you can't speed tank without stealth says something. The gallente scout will be the speed tanker of 1.8, which is kind of sad. They just have to fit and ADV plat, a proto extender, 3 kin cats, and a damage mod, and they are the best suit in the game. They get 4 free low slots, while minmitar only has 2. Fully shield and speed tanked minmitar that can dodge proto scanners is slower and has less HP than a speed tanked gallente than i mentioned above which passively dodges proto scans. As a min scout who specced into the role for speed tanking, i don't think this is very fair to the minmitar scouts. We get stuck with the lowest base HP, are forced to use an inferior HP source, and have fewer useful slots (lows) than gallente. In addition, gallente get better fittings, so they can fit a cloak on the aforementioned build if they want an shotgun and SMG and stable scanner, however a minmitar scout cannot if they want to run ishnoks and a basic SMG or stable scanner. This is with fitting skills maxed. The main problem though is the superiority of a dampening bonus compared to a hacking bonus, and the disparity between armor and shields. Click my sig if you wanna know more about what could fix this Trust me min scouts are gonna be deadly come 1.8, sure the gal has more lows an it's getting another high slot, but say speed tanking it isn't gonna be as viable as you think, the min got a base movement speed increase which leads one to believe our base sprint will be faster. So say you want 3x kinetics on a gallente, a regulator an 2x comp shields to make up for the armor that's gonna kill CPU an pg to fit 2 weapons an equip just to run aprox 10.73, the min runs 10.38 now without the base stat change, plus cloak has a 25% reduction to profile, so with skills up an a cloak an three kinetics an stacking penalties it's safe to say you could almost run 11.38? Won't know till we see the full stats but lets just say it does, an you can still fit 3x shields an be under 28 your still gonna have 400+ HP an be fast as hell, sure the gall has more lows an better base stats as far as its range, profile an 3 HP goes, but you gotta use the suit according to its bonuses, now that min is the hacker even if you get scanned you gotta just book if scanned but with a 35 base db an pd to 5 an a cloak it shouldn't be to hard hide. Personally I ll run armor on mine an 2 speed, still run + ten, 343 shields 180 armor with a cloak re knives an a CR BUT even in the gal I'd rather hide than be fast, it all depends on if you still die once you turned a corner.
Armor doesn't kill cpu/pg, shields do. armor you can use adv and its more effective and less damaging than a proto extender.
The problem is minmitar can't fit shields and kin cats, gallente can fit more hp and more speed, and a cloak, doesn't need a dampener, and can fit better weapons and a damage mod. Minmitar simply can't match gallente for speed tanking and raw EHP tanking and damage tanking and stealth without seriously killling the build
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
425
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Posted - 2014.02.04 18:07:00 -
[67] - Quote
Gallente fittings and bonus>>>>>minmitar fittings and bonus
The problem isn't just with the suits themselves, its the pg cost on shields making them impossible to use in conjunction with biotics on a scout. The minmitar scout simply becomes an amalgamation of terrible bonuses and even worse fitting capabilities, while gallente can easily get fittings that are superior to Minmitar, and have base bonuses that are useful to being a scout (i.e. dampening and scan range). There is no reason to be minmitar at this point
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Appia Vibbia
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
940
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Posted - 2014.02.04 20:36:00 -
[68] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:You won't be able to fit it with 3x kin cats and 3x shields. not enough pg on minmitar. Go gallente if you want to be able to cloak and sprint fast
You can however fit 3 shields, 2 kincats, and a cardiac regulator.Limited to flaylock and plasma cannon, but still able to fit it.
Appia Vibbia for CPM1
[email protected] (checked every Monday morning)
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
432
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Posted - 2014.02.04 20:36:00 -
[69] - Quote
and thats the problem. Minmitar need their racial bonus adjusted to a 5% bonus to gimped weaponry as the description
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Master Smurf
Nos Nothi
82
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Posted - 2014.02.04 20:44:00 -
[70] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:and thats the problem. Minmitar need their racial bonus adjusted to a 5% bonus to gimped weaponry as the description
You dont need 3 extenders, you dont need 3 catalysers
2 kin cats and a regulator or a kin cat, a reg and whatever can be a much better setup.
A Scout shouldnt be in head on warfare so drop a shield for a lesser damage mod or energizer and put to use the extra CPU you have over some of the other suits.
Also the Combat Rifle and Flaylock have less requirements by design and the basic SMG is fine at only 15/3 iirc.
You also have the possibility of using PG upgrades now that the minnie pro has 3 lows.
Far from doom and gloom
"Shine bright like a diamond"
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Lightning xVx
R 0 N 1 N
367
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Posted - 2014.02.04 20:59:00 -
[71] - Quote
Master Smurf wrote:How is the right way to use kin cats ?
You cant run away from people if they are even half decent at shooting.
Any other instance you are already using stealth even though it isnt a module. Many have determined that they already can do that with much more tank and even more firepower. You claiming some knowledge that so many others dont possess is...
Please just tell us so veteran players can agree or shoot it down.
My take is you are just a good FPS player who uses their smarts and gun game to excel. The same thing other good players have done with the scout suit through different methods.
It's not so much knowledge but the fact that I have been running this type a suit for a long time and I have learned its strengths and weakness. A big thing about Speed that was discussed with Jenza, is the fact that the game CAN'T keep up with a suit running that fast. So sometimes you will get the infamous. "Hit-Scan". And a lot of what I taught at RONIN was certain animal patterns that can sometimes bypass some shots because the frames at the second and the speed implemented within the suit. |
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
450
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Posted - 2014.02.05 04:01:00 -
[72] - Quote
Master Smurf wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:and thats the problem. Minmitar need their racial bonus adjusted to a 5% bonus to gimped weaponry as the description You dont need 3 extenders, you dont need 3 catalysers 2 kin cats and a regulator or a kin cat, a reg and whatever can be a much better setup. A Scout shouldnt be in head on warfare so drop a shield for a lesser damage mod or energizer and put to use the extra CPU you have over some of the other suits. Also the Combat Rifle and Flaylock have less requirements by design and the basic SMG is fine at only 15/3 iirc. You also have the possibility of using PG upgrades now that the minnie pro has 3 lows. Far from doom and gloom
Compare the minmitar scout to the other races and you will soon see the disparity
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
832
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Posted - 2014.02.05 04:06:00 -
[73] - Quote
I never fit a scout suit without one enhanced dampner.
Every other suit besides one has an enhanced kincat. The only one that doesn't is the one that has a basic Codebreaker. Because why not? Lol |
Texs Red
DUST University
Ivy League
153
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Posted - 2014.02.05 04:46:00 -
[74] - Quote
To be honest I don't think most people will run proto scanners in pub matches or even FW. Therefore all scout suits are just find unless you are getting proto stomped, then everybody is toast not just you.
My thoughts:
Move dampeners to high slots
Move scan precision mods to low slots and have them scale evenly with dampener bonuses
Reduce scan dB of all scout suits to 35
Give Minmatar scouts a slight buff to speed and switch shield regen with Caldari
Give the Amarr scout a slight buff (~50) to HP
Results:
Gallente: Has greatest ability to damp itself, unless you are a Caldari scout you will never see it coming.
Caldari: Can choose to either achieve either excellent passive scan range for skirmishing with long range weapons or have the best passive scan dB to deal with super damped Gallente scouts.
Minmatar: While it lacks overall eHP it has the best speed and ability to regen shields. You get it, kill, and get out before people realize what is going on. If you do take damage it has regenerated by the time your opponent manages to reengage with you.
Amarr: Prepare to face the relentless assault of an Amarr scout. It has the more eHP of any scout and the best stamina. It can achieve a tank as good as any medium frame suit and has the stamina to run down anyone who thinks about running away. |
knight guard fury
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
861
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Posted - 2014.02.05 04:52:00 -
[75] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Do you speed tankers believe that 1.8 might kill speed tanking further? The common saying is "Speed tanking is fun but dead". Currently this is due to issues from back in Chromosome with the Keanu Reeves Scouts and hit detection. However speed is definitely useful, for instance escapes.
But that is currently one of the two best uses for speed tanking: Escaping and getting around. Other than that pretty useless given that Kin Cats only effect sprint. On the other side of things, Stealth and health are both good for escaping and attacking/biting back. Seeing as how vehicles offer the best mode of getting around anyways, Speed has the short end of the stick (strictly infantry)
I don't see many speed tanked suits unless they are completely CQC oriented but even then it's a rarity. Seeing as 1.8 CCP plans to make a big push for more Stealth/EWar, while giving bonuses to suits for health/resistance, is it a fair assessment to say that 1.8 will cut out half of speed tanking?
I can see speed tanking in the sense of Codebreakers still viable but other than that will it last in the game of mighty HP and super sleuths? I haven't seen anyone discuss the outcomes of speed in 1.8 and how it will effect the Bottle Users, while obvious buffs in Stealth and Health are made.
I like this game in it's 3 ring approach, stealth health and biotics. But currently even biotics are dwarfed by the other rings and while they still have a use it's slowly being encroached upon by the Stealth and Health rings. Minmatar Scout may be the last bastion of Speed tanking in 1.8 with it's innate code breakers but after that pfft.
I'd like to see speed mean something more in this game. I think the scout community agrees that Stealth > Speed, but to all others do foresee the 1.8 threat to your speed-tanking way of life?
BTW I don't speed tank I'm stealth / passive scanning
speed tank a min scout with a combat rifle and it will be very effective
Trust the rust In Rust We Trust Vhreokor Warrior
jack of all trades winmatar specialist master dual tanker
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Samuel's Furniture
Nos Nothi
90
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Posted - 2014.02.05 06:53:00 -
[76] - Quote
Texs Red wrote:
Results:
Gallente: Has greatest ability to damp itself, unless you are a Caldari scout you will never see it coming.
Caldari: Can choose to either achieve either excellent passive scan range for skirmishing with long range weapons or have the best passive scan dB to deal with super damped Gallente scouts.
.
Two things:
A) Caldari Scout < Gallente Scout. Even with all five comp precision enhancers a caldari scout will never passively scan a gallente scout with two complex profile dampeners...I think there may be even a little wiggle room for a down graded one. Especially since base profile will = 35 and base precision will = 45 so...
Secondly, please relate on how those stealth stats relate against/for speed tanking in 1.8. There can be no derails.
Love, Bojo The Mighty
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
419
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Posted - 2014.02.05 07:04:00 -
[77] - Quote
Samuel's Furniture wrote:Texs Red wrote:
Results:
Gallente: Has greatest ability to damp itself, unless you are a Caldari scout you will never see it coming.
Caldari: Can choose to either achieve either excellent passive scan range for skirmishing with long range weapons or have the best passive scan dB to deal with super damped Gallente scouts.
.
Two things: A) Caldari Scout < Gallente Scout. Even with all five comp precision enhancers a caldari scout will never passively scan a gallente scout with two complex profile dampeners...I think there may be even a little wiggle room for a down graded one. Especially since base profile will = 35 and base precision will = 45 so... Secondly, please relate on how those stealth stats relate against/for speed tanking in 1.8. There can be no derails.
Profile dampening will not be as essential after 1.8 except maybe vs gal logis with dual scanners. Try scanning without the 360 spin and then also factor in the cool down changes. No gal scout will have more then one profile dampener MAX. The cal scout will have a great slot layout for some play styles.
Please fix the mic bubble bug...
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3042
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Posted - 2014.02.05 07:12:00 -
[78] - Quote
Ares 514 wrote:
Profile dampening will not be as essential after 1.8 except maybe vs gal logis with dual scanners. Try scanning without the 360 spin and then also factor in the cool down changes. No gal scout will have more then one profile dampener MAX. The cal scout will have a great slot layout for some play styles.
And this effects speed tanking by _________.....
Stay on track now, you have half a relative argument, just throw on the part about speed tanking......
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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Ghost Kaisar
Titans of Phoenix
Legacy Rising
2696
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Posted - 2014.02.05 07:13:00 -
[79] - Quote
Speed tanking is good for one thing: Closing the distance.
You can surprise people by how fast you advance. Turn a corner, cover that 8m in less than a second, jump and open fire.
People go down before they know what hit them.
Also very useful in city environments. A burst sprint suit can move cover to cover very effectively. Combine with 270 shields and a very good recharge rate, and the suit is great for quickly running between cover, taking the small bit of damage, regen'ing and then moving up.
Cover to cover yo. Basic tactics.
Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face.
Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
453
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Posted - 2014.02.05 12:49:00 -
[80] - Quote
I just started playing yesterday for the first time in a month, and I'm still a little rusty, but what I've noticed is how ineffective actually trying to dodge sprays without sufficient cover. The only thing you can really do is set your sensitivity high and jump over the enemies head, shoot them once in the air, and spin around fast and shoot them again. Its the only way i really started getting kills when speed tanking. Strafing only works in an aim assist free world,and jumping only if you can catch them by surprise when they round a corner
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Texs Red
DUST University
Ivy League
156
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Posted - 2014.02.05 14:17:00 -
[81] - Quote
Samuel's Furniture wrote:Texs Red wrote:
Results:
Gallente: Has greatest ability to damp itself, unless you are a Caldari scout you will never see it coming.
Caldari: Can choose to either achieve either excellent passive scan range for skirmishing with long range weapons or have the best passive scan dB to deal with super damped Gallente scouts.
.
Two things: A) Caldari Scout < Gallente Scout. Even with all five comp precision enhancers a caldari scout will never passively scan a gallente scout with two complex profile dampeners...I think there may be even a little wiggle room for a down graded one. Especially since base profile will = 35 and base precision will = 45 so... Secondly, please relate on how those stealth stats relate against/for speed tanking in 1.8. There can be no derails.
Did you even read my post? I suggested making base precision 35 and having profile damps and precision mods scale evenly. Your point is moot. Read please.
I also think shield modules should get their PG reduced and the HP increased at STD and ADV levels to aid shield tankers. I also suggested that speed on minmatar scout suits should go up slight which, with trading shield regen stats with the Caldari, with be able to do lightning quick hits on your opponents then regen quickly.
Personally I don't see speed tanking as a primary form of defense because if you achieve it you become pretty much untouchable. The minmatar focus on skimish warfare, speed is to get them in, rain down a hail of bullets to kill, and regen shield tanking allows them to quickly recover when they leave. Those aspects combined make up the minmatar combat ideology, not speed tanking alone. |
Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
419
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Posted - 2014.02.05 16:21:00 -
[82] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Ares 514 wrote:
Profile dampening will not be as essential after 1.8 except maybe vs gal logis with dual scanners. Try scanning without the 360 spin and then also factor in the cool down changes. No gal scout will have more then one profile dampener MAX. The cal scout will have a great slot layout for some play styles.
And this effects speed tanking by _________..... Stay on track now, you have half a relative argument, just throw on the part about speed tanking......
True, I was responding mostly to this other guy. However with profile dampening not being as essential more scouts will have an option to put KC in their low slots instead of dampners.
Please fix the mic bubble bug...
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Bormir1r
WarRavens
League of Infamy
19
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:07:00 -
[83] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Do you speed tankers believe that 1.8 might kill speed tanking further? The common saying is "Speed tanking is fun but dead". Currently this is due to issues from back in Chromosome with the Keanu Reeves Scouts and hit detection. However speed is definitely useful, for instance escapes.
But that is currently one of the two best uses for speed tanking: Escaping and getting around. Other than that pretty useless given that Kin Cats only effect sprint. On the other side of things, Stealth and health are both good for escaping and attacking/biting back. Seeing as how vehicles offer the best mode of getting around anyways, Speed has the short end of the stick (strictly infantry)
I don't see many speed tanked suits unless they are completely CQC oriented but even then it's a rarity. Seeing as 1.8 CCP plans to make a big push for more Stealth/EWar, while giving bonuses to suits for health/resistance, is it a fair assessment to say that 1.8 will cut out half of speed tanking?
I can see speed tanking in the sense of Codebreakers still viable but other than that will it last in the game of mighty HP and super sleuths? I haven't seen anyone discuss the outcomes of speed in 1.8 and how it will effect the Bottle Users, while obvious buffs in Stealth and Health are made.
I like this game in it's 3 ring approach, stealth health and biotics. But currently even biotics are dwarfed by the other rings and while they still have a use it's slowly being encroached upon by the Stealth and Health rings. Minmatar Scout may be the last bastion of Speed tanking in 1.8 with it's innate code breakers but after that pfft.
I'd like to see speed mean something more in this game. I think the scout community agrees that Stealth > Speed, but to all others do foresee the 1.8 threat to your speed-tanking way of life?
BTW I don't speed tank I'm stealth / passive scanning
It's definitely true that after 1.8, the Minja will be the only true speed tanker, and I think it's worthy to mention that even though stealth>speed, the proto min scout has 3 LOW POWERED MODS which means the additional slot can be used for either a profile dampner to increase stealth or add a Kin Cat to increase speed (im approx. 3 kin cats on Min scout = 11.4 ish) which is freaking fast. And since scanners are getting a nerf I think the min scouts will be just fine if not awesome. |
Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3048
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Posted - 2014.02.05 22:27:00 -
[84] - Quote
OK so I'm receiving that yall be broadcasting that because every scout is getting an innate stealth dampen buff, speed tanking will for sure live on in the Minmatar scout.
However what about the other frames? Stealth is not so out of reach of medium frames as you would think nor is speed. Do you think that a one-or-the other tanker on medium frames will fare well?
For instance, currently there are Caldari Assaults and Minassaults who use their lows with profile dampeners. Honestly it puts them at better odds against a scout and against lower tier scanners/vehicle scanners. However not a lot of speed tanked medium frames live on in 1.7. There were certainly some (and some who used it to take advantage of melee glitch) I have seen but not a whole lot and really I would need the opinion of a KinCat using medium frame (or green bottle) to weigh in here as well since all scouts are pretty much innately faster I think that speed tanking nerfs are mitigated on their end and speed tank buffs are increased on their end.
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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Dengru
Fatal Absolution
Public Disorder.
404
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Posted - 2014.02.05 22:40:00 -
[85] - Quote
If you fill all the gallente lows with kincats that's barely enough to outrun the tracking of installations. No matter how fast you go people will wave their gun over you and kill you.. Aim assist + overly forgiving hitscan+ unindividuated hitbox sections..
(>^_^)><(^.^<)
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
456
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Posted - 2014.02.06 02:43:00 -
[86] - Quote
too true
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3058
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Posted - 2014.02.06 02:49:00 -
[87] - Quote
Texs Red wrote:
Did you even read my post? I suggested making base precision 35 and having profile damps and precision mods scale evenly. Your point is moot. Read please.
I also think shield modules should get their PG reduced and the HP increased at STD and ADV levels to aid shield tankers. I also suggested that speed on minmatar scout suits should go up slight which, with trading shield regen stats with the Caldari, with be able to do lightning quick hits on your opponents then regen quickly.
Personally I don't see speed tanking as a primary form of defense because if you achieve it you become pretty much untouchable. The minmatar focus on skimish warfare, speed is to get them in, rain down a hail of bullets to kill, and regen shield tanking allows them to quickly recover when they leave. Those aspects combined make up the minmatar combat ideology, not speed tanking alone.
I don't care about your hypothetical scenario, we are talking about what CCP posted not what you want no offense.
So you don't believe the speed tanking is viable alone, although it is one of the hardest modules to sink into? You believe that multiple regenerative modules should have to be applied as well to make up it's wake which would although add to the SP makes sense, though not to those who choose the path of speed tanking themselves perhaps.
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
456
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Posted - 2014.02.06 02:53:00 -
[88] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Texs Red wrote:
Did you even read my post? I suggested making base precision 35 and having profile damps and precision mods scale evenly. Your point is moot. Read please.
I also think shield modules should get their PG reduced and the HP increased at STD and ADV levels to aid shield tankers. I also suggested that speed on minmatar scout suits should go up slight which, with trading shield regen stats with the Caldari, with be able to do lightning quick hits on your opponents then regen quickly.
Personally I don't see speed tanking as a primary form of defense because if you achieve it you become pretty much untouchable. The minmatar focus on skimish warfare, speed is to get them in, rain down a hail of bullets to kill, and regen shield tanking allows them to quickly recover when they leave. Those aspects combined make up the minmatar combat ideology, not speed tanking alone.
I don't care about your hypothetical scenario, we are talking about what CCP posted not what you want no offense. So you don't believe the speed tanking is viable alone, although it is one of the hardest modules to sink into? You believe that multiple regenerative modules should have to be applied as well to make up it's wake which would although add to the SP makes sense, though not to those who choose the path of speed tanking themselves perhaps.
I agree with Texas, but speed tanking should be viable in 1v1 scenarios only, but very viable in those situations. Past that its anyones game, and stealth should be more effective at getting behind and killing from a group of enemies, using tactics to pick off stragglers from the main group would require stealth to get in and speed tanking to survive
Thats how i believe speed tanking should work
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
466
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Posted - 2014.02.07 02:38:00 -
[89] - Quote
aim assist needs to be turned down by like 50% too. It really really messes with rifles and similar weapons against speed tankers
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
431
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Posted - 2014.02.07 02:43:00 -
[90] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:aim assist needs to be turned down by like 50% too. It really really messes with rifles and similar weapons against speed tankers
I really don't think it's aim assist now. They have toned it down a lot from where they initially had it. I think the real issue is the damage output and low TTK. Fix that and I think you'll find the whole game experience much improved.
Please fix the mic bubble bug...
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Scheneighnay McBob
Learning Coalition College
3930
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Posted - 2014.02.07 02:43:00 -
[91] - Quote
The idea of speed tanking as infantry is a joke.
I am your scan error.
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
468
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Posted - 2014.02.07 02:49:00 -
[92] - Quote
Ares 514 wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:aim assist needs to be turned down by like 50% too. It really really messes with rifles and similar weapons against speed tankers I really don't think it's aim assist now. They have toned it down a lot from where they initially had it. I think the real issue is the damage output and low TTK. Fix that and I think you'll find the whole game experience much improved.
I dont think most people realize it, but aim assist is what makes ttk so low. The ability to hipfire with any rifle from 30-50 yards away and hit every shot without aiming is a problem. I agree, its gotten better, but it really does need another bit of improvement. If 50-60% of bullets hit while hipfiring, TTK would be fine. However, bullet magnetism causes slight errors that may result in a miss result in a hit for about 80 damage from a single rail rifle bullet, or 150 from a single CR burst. Add in aim assist automatically seeking the head for certain rifles (scrambler, combat), and you get a nasty combination.
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
468
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Posted - 2014.02.07 02:50:00 -
[93] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:The idea of speed tanking as infantry is a joke.
currently, yes it is. But i really dont think that the situation is very funny
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Master Kail
R 0 N 1 N
25
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Posted - 2014.02.07 02:52:00 -
[94] - Quote
Lightning xVx wrote:I have used NOTHING BUT SPEED, since Closed Beta. Still efficient and deadly, those who say otherwise are honestly doing it wrong.
Same here.
Once AA was turned on.. harshly... I tried some other setups.. But still made it back to speed tanking as the most effective way to play as a Min Scout.
Everything I touch...
Turns Blue
Minmatar Logistics & Minmatar Scout. Soon to become one!
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
468
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Posted - 2014.02.07 02:56:00 -
[95] - Quote
Master Kail wrote:Lightning xVx wrote:I have used NOTHING BUT SPEED, since Closed Beta. Still efficient and deadly, those who say otherwise are honestly doing it wrong. Same here. Once AA was turned on.. harshly... I tried some other setups.. But still made it back to speed tanking as the most effective way to play as a Min Scout.
I speed tank too (you should know, you were squadding with me today lol) but it just doesnt seem as effective as it should be. The skill/luck to reward ratio just seems out of whack to me, especially when compared to armor tankers or any type of brick tanker
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
431
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Posted - 2014.02.07 03:51:00 -
[96] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Ares 514 wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:aim assist needs to be turned down by like 50% too. It really really messes with rifles and similar weapons against speed tankers I really don't think it's aim assist now. They have toned it down a lot from where they initially had it. I think the real issue is the damage output and low TTK. Fix that and I think you'll find the whole game experience much improved. I dont think most people realize it, but aim assist is what makes ttk so low. The ability to hipfire with any rifle from 30-50 yards away and hit every shot without aiming is a problem. I agree, its gotten better, but it really does need another bit of improvement. If 50-60% of bullets hit while hipfiring, TTK would be fine. However, bullet magnetism causes slight errors that may result in a miss result in a hit for about 80 damage from a single rail rifle bullet, or 150 from a single CR burst. Add in aim assist automatically seeking the head for certain rifles (scrambler, combat), and you get a nasty combination.
Actually I disagree. It's the damage output of the weapons along with the damage mods being way OP and stacking them. If you aim down sites you murder people as wel without AA. The damage output was balanced for horrible hit detection. They fixed that which skewed the TTK in a horrible way. Add in the new RR and especially the CR and you end up with the mess it is today.
When your insta killed by a logistics with a proto CR you know he has 3 damage mods, and this is even with my photo cal assault tanked to the max.
Please fix the mic bubble bug...
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