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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3009
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Posted - 2014.02.03 23:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
Do you speed tankers believe that 1.8 might kill speed tanking further? The common saying is "Speed tanking is fun but dead". Currently this is due to issues from back in Chromosome with the Keanu Reeves Scouts and hit detection. However speed is definitely useful, for instance escapes.
But that is currently one of the two best uses for speed tanking: Escaping and getting around. Other than that pretty useless given that Kin Cats only effect sprint. On the other side of things, Stealth and health are both good for escaping and attacking/biting back. Seeing as how vehicles offer the best mode of getting around anyways, Speed has the short end of the stick (strictly infantry)
I don't see many speed tanked suits unless they are completely CQC oriented but even then it's a rarity. Seeing as 1.8 CCP plans to make a big push for more Stealth/EWar, while giving bonuses to suits for health/resistance, is it a fair assessment to say that 1.8 will cut out half of speed tanking?
I can see speed tanking in the sense of Codebreakers still viable but other than that will it last in the game of mighty HP and super sleuths? I haven't seen anyone discuss the outcomes of speed in 1.8 and how it will effect the Bottle Users, while obvious buffs in Stealth and Health are made.
I like this game in it's 3 ring approach, stealth health and biotics. But currently even biotics are dwarfed by the other rings and while they still have a use it's slowly being encroached upon by the Stealth and Health rings. Minmatar Scout may be the last bastion of Speed tanking in 1.8 with it's innate code breakers but after that pfft.
I'd like to see speed mean something more in this game. I think the scout community agrees that Stealth > Speed, but to all others do foresee the 1.8 threat to your speed-tanking way of life?
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3009
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Posted - 2014.02.03 23:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
Roger Cordill wrote:message from Godin: it makes no sense to speed tank anything other than a light frame, and light frames suck at speed tanking. So no, it's not viable. Also, if you get scanned, no matter how fast you are, you'll be shot. So even for hacking it's pointless. Only reason to use it is to get away. You've just made my point.
I want speed tanking to be to the point where if you are scanned, it won't matter if they know where you are, because you can be somewhere else lickity split. HP currently works the opposite, seeing as how scanning does not tell you your HP, someone with a lot of health can compete against that. If we make it so that all three rings can offensively and defensively compete against eachother that would be excellent.
Currently I think it's more broken due to FPS versus EVE, where in an FPS speed barely means anything when tracking speed/ sensitivity is so high.
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3012
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Posted - 2014.02.04 01:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Most definitely. Aim assist itself is a direct nerf to speed tanking. I say this- Minmitar scout is THE speed tanker, give them a 5% buff to sprint and move speed, and to help all scouts who stack kin cats make a better calculation for strafe speed, and reduce aim assist by about 50%.
proposed equation= sprint speed+movement speed/ constant k (which will be some number in between 2.5 and 3)
Yes but speed tanking should not really be limited to one suit/frame. I mean I've seen some really fast heavies and they are a force not to be reckoned with. Speed tanking a heavy as long as you pack a logi is a pretty solid set up. But not so much viable in other suits where they don't have such high HP to buffer out.
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3015
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Posted - 2014.02.04 02:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lightning xVx wrote:I have used NOTHING BUT SPEED, since Closed Beta. Still efficient and deadly, those who say otherwise are honestly doing it wrong. The question is do you think that the Minmatar scout losing the profile reduction bonus will be the killer of the minmatar scout speed tanking, and thus Stealth > Speed, except you do gain a low slot in 1.8. But still the fact that you can't speed tank without stealth says something.
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3016
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Posted - 2014.02.04 03:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lightning xVx wrote:
I am aware of this but one thing that the majority of people don't know is; is that there is more then "One-Type" of Stealth. It's Speed Stealth. I have taught only taught a handful of Scouts about it and it is ultimately a very convoluted way of the "Fight or Flight" method that fuses both together.
Hit and run Edit: But that's outside Ewar Stealth, that's optical stealth, disappearing from sight. But the challenge is having speed compete against Scans when HP can compete against scans and stealth can too. Being scanned while having low HP ceiling is not good at all.
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3016
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Posted - 2014.02.04 03:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:Lightning xVx wrote:I have used NOTHING BUT SPEED, since Closed Beta. Still efficient and deadly, those who say otherwise are honestly doing it wrong. The question is do you think that the Minmatar scout losing the profile reduction bonus will be the killer of the minmatar scout speed tanking, and thus Stealth > Speed, except you do gain a low slot in 1.8. But still the fact that you can't speed tank without stealth says something. The gallente scout will be the speed tanker of 1.8, which is kind of sad. They just have to fit and ADV plat, a proto extender, 3 kin cats, and a damage mod, and they are the best suit in the game. They get 4 free low slots, while minmitar only has 2. Fully shield and speed tanked minmitar that can dodge proto scanners is slower and has less HP than a speed tanked gallente than i mentioned above which passively dodges proto scans. As a min scout who specced into the role for speed tanking, i don't think this is very fair to the minmitar scouts. We get stuck with the lowest base HP, are forced to use an inferior HP source, and have fewer useful slots (lows) than gallente. In addition, gallente get better fittings, so they can fit a cloak on the aforementioned build if they want an shotgun and SMG and stable scanner, however a minmitar scout cannot if they want to run ishnoks and a basic SMG or stable scanner. This is with fitting skills maxed. The main problem though is the superiority of a dampening bonus compared to a hacking bonus, and the disparity between armor and shields. Click my sig if you wanna know more about what could fix this 3, you get 3 in 1.8
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3017
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Posted - 2014.02.04 03:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:yes, but you need one for a dampener, while gallente doesn't. Thats the problem let's not try to nerf the galscout now.... and we are back at point A where Stealth > Speed
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3019
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Posted - 2014.02.04 04:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lightning xVx wrote: I made this same argument with Gallente Scouts being OVERALL better (speed, stealth and health) and no one cared. Minmatar Scout (IMO) needs speed in every format. (Shield Recharge or Regulators, Speed and Firing) They are meant for speed and power and all we got was a TINY bit of speed boost and 1 extra low slot that can be pretty much be ran on a Gallente better.
While those are forms of speed tanking in a sense, I would call those regenerative tanking because I do it on my Galscout with armor reps. I don't I agree with the Minmatar Speed-Freak being so broad. I currently agree with their 1.8 bonus because having that fast of a hack on a scout would make CRU hacking way more viable, especially since all scouts get 1.1 bonus anyways.
I believe all forms of scouts are about speed sort of. Regenerative Caldari, Gallente, and Amarr doing Shield Regen, Armor Regen, stamina regen respectively. While the Minmatar gets the cherry on top with sublime speed and hacking *******. And yes, currently the Gallente Scout is overall more viable but don't hold that against us or anyone really even if you weren't. With only two current scouts one was bound to outshine the other. Now with a variety mix and completely turned on its head the scouts will have to be reevaluated however speed tanking on a whole looks more and more unappealing to me, a stealth/scan "tanker?" in 1.8 because it looks so biased in my favor, especially if CCP wouldn't be reducing all scout profiles.
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3019
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Posted - 2014.02.04 04:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Gallente everything will be FoTM come 1.8, i can guarantee it. I just hope for your sake that nyan san doesn't decode to start running gk.0 scouts with 4x adv plates, and 2x damage mods with rail rifles and cloaks. However, this does seem like what will happen
Actually Caldari Scout will be FOTM 4 Shield Extenders, Shield Regulators, <2 seconds shield delay with the highest shield regen on a dropsuit.
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3019
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Posted - 2014.02.04 04:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Gallente everything will be FoTM come 1.8, i can guarantee it. I just hope for your sake that nyan san doesn't decode to start running gk.0 scouts with 4x adv plates, and 2x damage mods with rail rifles and cloaks. However, this does seem like what will happen
Actually Caldari Scout will be FOTM 4 Shield Extenders, Shield Regulators, <2 seconds shield delay with the highest shield regen on a dropsuit. and they will be one shotted by a scrambler rifle on an amarr commando. Shields are not good enough to be FoTM but a cal scout with 1x PD, 1x range, 2x precision, and 2x extenders with a proto cloak will be really good IMO Hell I get charge sniper OHK'd right now anyways and I have run 4 enhanced plates on a scout before and really was nothing very FOTM appealing. Really it goes toe to toe but coming across any CR, HMG, railgun in the open pretty much negates it.
That's a point where speed does come in handy, like previously mentioned, escape. But stealth will do in a snap if you are in the cities.
I'm trying to look out for the sake of speed tanking in 1.8 Lightning and in your honest opinion, simple yes/no, do you think it will be viable in 1.8 without much mixing into HP or Stealth.
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3042
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Posted - 2014.02.05 07:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ares 514 wrote: Profile dampening will not be as essential after 1.8 except maybe vs gal logis with dual scanners. Try scanning without the 360 spin and then also factor in the cool down changes. No gal scout will have more then one profile dampener MAX. The cal scout will have a great slot layout for some play styles.
And this effects speed tanking by _________..... Stay on track now, you have half a relative argument, just throw on the part about speed tanking......
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3048
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Posted - 2014.02.05 22:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
OK so I'm receiving that yall be broadcasting that because every scout is getting an innate stealth dampen buff, speed tanking will for sure live on in the Minmatar scout.
However what about the other frames? Stealth is not so out of reach of medium frames as you would think nor is speed. Do you think that a one-or-the other tanker on medium frames will fare well?
For instance, currently there are Caldari Assaults and Minassaults who use their lows with profile dampeners. Honestly it puts them at better odds against a scout and against lower tier scanners/vehicle scanners. However not a lot of speed tanked medium frames live on in 1.7. There were certainly some (and some who used it to take advantage of melee glitch) I have seen but not a whole lot and really I would need the opinion of a KinCat using medium frame (or green bottle) to weigh in here as well since all scouts are pretty much innately faster I think that speed tanking nerfs are mitigated on their end and speed tank buffs are increased on their end.
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3058
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Posted - 2014.02.06 02:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
Texs Red wrote:
Did you even read my post? I suggested making base precision 35 and having profile damps and precision mods scale evenly. Your point is moot. Read please.
I also think shield modules should get their PG reduced and the HP increased at STD and ADV levels to aid shield tankers. I also suggested that speed on minmatar scout suits should go up slight which, with trading shield regen stats with the Caldari, with be able to do lightning quick hits on your opponents then regen quickly. Personally I don't see speed tanking as a primary form of defense because if you achieve it you become pretty much untouchable. The minmatar focus on skimish warfare, speed is to get them in, rain down a hail of bullets to kill, and regen shield tanking allows them to quickly recover when they leave. Those aspects combined make up the minmatar combat ideology, not speed tanking alone.
I don't care about your hypothetical scenario, we are talking about what CCP posted not what you want no offense.
So you don't believe the speed tanking is viable alone, although it is one of the hardest modules to sink into? You believe that multiple regenerative modules should have to be applied as well to make up it's wake which would although add to the SP makes sense, though not to those who choose the path of speed tanking themselves perhaps.
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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