Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Henchmen21
Planet Express LLC
507
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 03:49:00 -
[61] - Quote
The problem is that it exists in it's current state and CCP Shanghai thought it was a good idea.
Henchmen21: Infantry
Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
|
Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
705
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 04:03:00 -
[62] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Now its a accuracy problem.
You know, quiet as its kept, the truth no one is talking about is player skill involved. The truth no one is talking about is that the CR really trumps. But the common merc doesn't know that.
The running theme? "I don't adapt my playstyle, the game must adapt to me. How could a person actually be good with a RR trump with CQC? That's utterly impossible! I demand a nerf!"
Michael - spot on. +1
No matter the weapon the top factor in lethality is the operator. This is the primary reason that I don't support nerfing any weapon at this point until all weapons, suits, moduels, equipment, and role perks are updated.
Quite a few folks on the forum claim they can pick up any weapon and have a slayfest with it...there are even a few of those folks I actually believe. If you fall into that category then that's great; I honestly want to get skilled enough to have that experience - but for the majority of players the drawbacks of weapons like the RR and SCR work pretty much as intended.
"Third star to the right...straight ahead 'till morning."
|
Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
659
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 04:05:00 -
[63] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Justin Tymes wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Now its a accuracy problem.
You know, quiet as its kept, the truth no one is talking about is player skill involved. The truth no one is talking about is that the CR really trumps. But the common merc doesn't know that.
The running theme? "I don't adapt my playstyle, the game must adapt to me. How could a person actually be good with a RR trump with CQC? That's utterly impossible! I demand a nerf!" Implying that it's hard to win in CQC with the RR compared to Lasers, Assault MDs, and Sniper Rifles. So close quarters combat is trump with lasers, assault MDs and...sniper rifles...compared to the RR? Am I understanding you correctly because honestly that doesn't make sense to me.
I'm saying that the RR isn't bad in CQC. It's possible to win in CQC with the proper skill, even against specialized CQC weapons like the HMGs, while it's next to impossible for these weapons to win in CQC against weapons like AR and forget CQC weapons like the HMG, regardless of skill level. |
Pvt Numnutz
Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising
695
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 04:15:00 -
[64] - Quote
The gallente at is better when fired in bursts, like an actual assault rifle, you cannot cry for a Nerf to a weapon because people want to pray and spray. That said the RR does have disadvantages, the charge time, slow rate of fire, and magazine size. I do see where you are coming from, especially since you are gallente. This weapon was designed to kill armor tanks, much like the scrambler is designed to kill my shield tanked caldari suit. You know what I do when I see a good scrambler rifle user? I run, because I am out matched, as I cannot fight that awesome alpha of a gun designed to kill me.
I don't see the range as an issue, it has the same optimal as the scrambler rife, 78m it's effective is a bit longer, I believe 102m. At about 150m I'm doing about 20% damage, I won't be able to break shields at that damage before I burn through my whole clip. The assault rail is meant for medium to short range, its a variant, but a good gal at user will still beat me cqc.
I don't care if you Nerf the RR, I don't use it because its op, I use it because its caldari. I would like to know how you intend to reduce the dps tho, as I would preferably like to keep it useful. Personally I think all assault rifles should loose 10% damage to encourage specialty weapons. |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
6160
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 04:46:00 -
[65] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:The gallente at is better when fired in bursts, like an actual assault rifle, you cannot cry for a Nerf to a weapon because people want to pray and spray. That said the RR does have disadvantages, the charge time, slow rate of fire, and magazine size. I do see where you are coming from, especially since you are gallente. This weapon was designed to kill armor tanks, much like the scrambler is designed to kill my shield tanked caldari suit. You know what I do when I see a good scrambler rifle user? I run, because I am out matched, as I cannot fight that awesome alpha of a gun designed to kill me.
I don't see the range as an issue, it has the same optimal as the scrambler rife, 78m it's effective is a bit longer, I believe 102m. At about 150m I'm doing about 20% damage, I won't be able to break shields at that damage before I burn through my whole clip. The assault rail is meant for medium to short range, its a variant, but a good gal at user will still beat me cqc.
I don't care if you Nerf the RR, I don't use it because its op, I use it because its caldari. I would like to know how you intend to reduce the dps tho, as I would preferably like to keep it useful. Personally I think all assault rifles should loose 10% damage to encourage specialty weapons. The problem is that it has both range and DPS. Plus it can apply that DPS better than the AR, so even though they both have matching theoretical DPS, the RR has more effective DPS. That's just plain stupid.
A few points: The charge time is nearly insignificant, after a match using it I forget it even exists
Slow ROF has it's advantages, like I said it allows you to control your bullets better, and it's also not as wasteful on ammo
[*] A clip unload on the RR takes longer than the AR, so while the absolute clip size is smaller, in reality the AR has a "smaller" clip
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
|
Izlare Lenix
FREE AGENTS LP
123
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 04:54:00 -
[66] - Quote
The ONLY problem with the RR is it is too effective in cqc and it kills fast from 0 meters to 100m. No other weapon can do that. I have no problem with a RR killing me from 50 - 100 meters, that's it's turf. But a RR should not be able to beat my CR or AR at 5 meters. And it happens a lot.
Reducing hip fire accuracy will reduce cqc effectiveness of the RR without harming its long range abilities. Reducing damage or rof will harm both cqc and long range and that shouldn't happen. Reducing its cqc abilities will be good enough.
Gun control is not about guns...it's about control.
The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
|
deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
417
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 05:09:00 -
[67] - Quote
solution increase clip size by x% and charge delay by y% the charge delay increase is to give it a larger opportunity to die in cqc the increase clip size is to make up for the larger delay not gimped at range but gimped in cqc
Proud Christian
one of the most essential parts of eve is left out of dust: freedom, exploration, open-world gameplay.
|
KING CHECKMATE
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
4305
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 05:10:00 -
[68] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:It's too accurate. Due to it's low fire rate (meaning you know when the bullets will fly out of the barrel) and EXTREME hip fire accuracy, it can apply full DPS at any time.
An AR, while accurate, is not as accurate, and unless the target is sitting still or moving RIGHT at you, you will never apply full DPS. Even while aiming down sights, due to it's fire rate if the target is moving you usually can't apply full DPS.
So you have a weapon with the same DPS as the AR, higher range, higher accuracy, better damage application...
RR DPS must be reduced, it's too accurate, has too much range and has too good of a damage application to have this much DPS.
ITs called AA. Now eat your tuna and go to sleep.
AceOfJokers666 [ + ] AimBot / VALOR / MAG | YOU EITHER LOVE BACON OR YOU ARE WRONG
|
Jacques Cayton II
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
578
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 05:11:00 -
[69] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:It's too accurate. Due to it's low fire rate (meaning you know when the bullets will fly out of the barrel) and EXTREME hip fire accuracy, it can apply full DPS at any time.
An AR, while accurate, is not as accurate, and unless the target is sitting still or moving RIGHT at you, you will never apply full DPS. Even while aiming down sights, due to it's fire rate if the target is moving you usually can't apply full DPS.
So you have a weapon with the same DPS as the AR, higher range, higher accuracy, better damage application...
RR DPS must be reduced, it's too accurate, has too much range and has too good of a damage application to have this much DPS. Show me on the doll where the rr touched you and if it's so op why is the cr used more in pc
We fight for the future of the State not our
personal goals
|
Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
659
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 05:23:00 -
[70] - Quote
Jacques Cayton II wrote:Cat Merc wrote:It's too accurate. Due to it's low fire rate (meaning you know when the bullets will fly out of the barrel) and EXTREME hip fire accuracy, it can apply full DPS at any time.
An AR, while accurate, is not as accurate, and unless the target is sitting still or moving RIGHT at you, you will never apply full DPS. Even while aiming down sights, due to it's fire rate if the target is moving you usually can't apply full DPS.
So you have a weapon with the same DPS as the AR, higher range, higher accuracy, better damage application...
RR DPS must be reduced, it's too accurate, has too much range and has too good of a damage application to have this much DPS. Show me on the doll where the rr touched you and if it's so op why is the cr used more in pc
Because the CR is OP too? "X isn't broken because Y exists" is terrible logic. |
|
Henchmen21
Planet Express LLC
507
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 05:28:00 -
[71] - Quote
Jacques Cayton II wrote:Cat Merc wrote:It's too accurate. Due to it's low fire rate (meaning you know when the bullets will fly out of the barrel) and EXTREME hip fire accuracy, it can apply full DPS at any time.
An AR, while accurate, is not as accurate, and unless the target is sitting still or moving RIGHT at you, you will never apply full DPS. Even while aiming down sights, due to it's fire rate if the target is moving you usually can't apply full DPS.
So you have a weapon with the same DPS as the AR, higher range, higher accuracy, better damage application...
RR DPS must be reduced, it's too accurate, has too much range and has too good of a damage application to have this much DPS. Show me on the doll where the rr touched you and if it's so op why is the cr used more in pc
I'd wager that much like high sec vs null sec in EVE more people just pub it then play PC, so what happens in isk faucet land really shouldn't be the main factor in balancing anything.
Henchmen21: Infantry
Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
|
Michael Arck
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu
2994
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 05:34:00 -
[72] - Quote
Justin Tymes wrote:
I'm saying that the RR isn't bad in CQC. It's possible to win in CQC with the proper skill, even against specialized CQC weapons like the HMGs, while it's next to impossible for these weapons to win in CQC against weapons like AR and forget CQC weapons like the HMG, regardless of skill level.
Thanks for clarification. System rebooted.
Jacques Cayton II wrote: if it's so op why is the cr used more in pc
*morpheus voice*
yessssss!
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
For the State!!
[email protected]
|
Michael Arck
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu
2994
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 05:35:00 -
[73] - Quote
Justin Tymes wrote:Jacques Cayton II wrote:Cat Merc wrote:It's too accurate. Due to it's low fire rate (meaning you know when the bullets will fly out of the barrel) and EXTREME hip fire accuracy, it can apply full DPS at any time.
An AR, while accurate, is not as accurate, and unless the target is sitting still or moving RIGHT at you, you will never apply full DPS. Even while aiming down sights, due to it's fire rate if the target is moving you usually can't apply full DPS.
So you have a weapon with the same DPS as the AR, higher range, higher accuracy, better damage application...
RR DPS must be reduced, it's too accurate, has too much range and has too good of a damage application to have this much DPS. Show me on the doll where the rr touched you and if it's so op why is the cr used more in pc Because the CR is OP too? "X isn't broken because Y exists" is terrible logic.
But consider the implication...it's spot on.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
For the State!!
[email protected]
|
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1797
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 08:24:00 -
[74] - Quote
Izlare Lenix wrote:The ONLY problem with the RR is it is too effective in cqc and it kills fast from 0 meters to 100m. No other weapon can do that. I have no problem with a RR killing me from 50 - 100 meters, that's it's turf. But a RR should not be able to beat my CR or AR at 5 meters. And it happens a lot.
Reducing hip fire accuracy will reduce cqc effectiveness of the RR without harming its long range abilities. Reducing damage or rof will harm both cqc and long range and that shouldn't happen. Reducing its cqc abilities will be good enough.
Reducing the damage would break the weapon but reducing the rof would not. (Reducing damage and giving it better accurscy would work to) That's because it's long range and high alpha would ensure that good distance and a good position gives you the edge in long range combat. Hell even a 50% dps reduction only brings its TTK to roughly 4 seconds, but 50 is to much, 30 is the highest, and perfect number, the dps reduction should go. Although now if a AR does get the drop on you you are screwed but in this case you can pull out the pocketAR (Magsec SMG) and be matched vs the AR.
Armor and Shields are not the same!
|
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1797
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 08:27:00 -
[75] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Justin Tymes wrote:Jacques Cayton II wrote:Cat Merc wrote:It's too accurate. Due to it's low fire rate (meaning you know when the bullets will fly out of the barrel) and EXTREME hip fire accuracy, it can apply full DPS at any time.
An AR, while accurate, is not as accurate, and unless the target is sitting still or moving RIGHT at you, you will never apply full DPS. Even while aiming down sights, due to it's fire rate if the target is moving you usually can't apply full DPS.
So you have a weapon with the same DPS as the AR, higher range, higher accuracy, better damage application...
RR DPS must be reduced, it's too accurate, has too much range and has too good of a damage application to have this much DPS. Show me on the doll where the rr touched you and if it's so op why is the cr used more in pc Because the CR is OP too? "X isn't broken because Y exists" is terrible logic. But consider the implication...it's spot on.
The CR is probably the worst weapon to use in PC once framerate drops it's DPS drops with it. Unless you mean the ACR the CR is not the weapon to go with if you are in PC. Although the best explainable reason for using the CR in PC is its higher DPS output and ease of use. Even though the SCR has a higher damage output it is harder to use, if the SCR didn't kill itself with overheat that would be the go to gun.
Armor and Shields are not the same!
|
Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance
125
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 08:53:00 -
[76] - Quote
Rail rifle is fine, but it's going to be over nerfed and then everyones gonna switch to combat rifles and nerf that too.
|
Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance
127
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 09:01:00 -
[77] - Quote
Izlare Lenix wrote:The ONLY problem with the RR is it is too effective in cqc and it kills fast from 0 meters to 100m. No other weapon can do that. I have no problem with a RR killing me from 50 - 100 meters, that's it's turf. But a RR should not be able to beat my CR or AR at 5 meters. And it happens a lot.
Reducing hip fire accuracy will reduce cqc effectiveness of the RR without harming its long range abilities. Reducing damage or rof will harm both cqc and long range and that shouldn't happen. Reducing its cqc abilities will be good enough.
Optimal range on an ar and cr aren't 5m. If ar or cr had a hip fire box like rr with their rof this forum would meltdown like Chernobyl. It's more balanced to have a low rof weapon with tight hip fire than a high rof. Assault combat rifles kill at close range way more than rrs.
Fewer bullets, more precise More bullets, less precise
You can't have both lol
|
Michael Arck
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu
3006
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 09:01:00 -
[78] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:Rail rifle is fine, but it's going to be over nerfed and then everyones gonna switch to combat rifles and nerf that too.
And thus the cycle continues...shame, really.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
For the State!!
[email protected]
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
6165
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 09:08:00 -
[79] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:Rail rifle is fine, but it's going to be over nerfed and then everyones gonna switch to combat rifles and nerf that too.
And thus the cycle continues...shame, really. Both need a nerf actually...
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
|
George Moros
Area 514
301
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 09:27:00 -
[80] - Quote
Just to confirm that Cat Merc is not a bad player, and that RR is too good at close range. When you start seeing heavies using RRs instead of HMGs on a regular basis, you know something is wrong.
RR should be the king of long range, but that advantage should come with a price.
Pulvereus ergo queritor.
|
|
Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division Top Men.
642
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 09:46:00 -
[81] - Quote
Heh, i was in a PFC match today, and i was going up against armor tankers/heavies. Guess which weapon i brought out? Not my prof II CR. DpC is too damn low. RR with it's 3k DpC fits just fine as a heavy slicer. Cr barely breaks 2k at proto+prof2 +2 cx damage mods.
Edit: op3 RR and it was the Rings map. Defending the AV nade towers.
Under 28db
Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14)
Selling SP: 10k SP per 100k ISK.
|
Kira Takizawa
2Shitz 1Giggle
130
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 09:58:00 -
[82] - Quote
OliX PRZESMIEWCA wrote:Generally 100 % bullshit.
Try to fire RR while strafe, when your opponent is on the move.
How many same topics you will start over and over?
I have and you sir are stupid |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
561
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 11:43:00 -
[83] - Quote
Fire of Prometheus wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Fire of Prometheus wrote:The rr does +Dmg to armour.
90%* of the players stack armour.
Do I need to explain more?
*numbers are just a place holder to help you understand my point Irrelevant. In its optimal range the AR should be consistently besting the RR and CR, which are not designed for such close range (although the CR should be much more competitive than the RR at those ranges), while the ScR is clearly intended as a massive-alpha, low DoT weapon, and its low usage rate relative to the other rifles speaks volumes. I see more GEKs than CRWs, even now. It's 10% higher than normalised damage, incidentally. True, but he rr is the "racial equivalent" of the breach ar from pre 1.7. So logically, it should be high damage (as most breach weapons are) and slower ROF with a better hip spread (as most breach weapons are)....
..and lower range and lower dps compared to the assault variant.. |
Jastad
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
467
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 12:26:00 -
[84] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote: The CR is probably the worst weapon to use in PC once framerate drops it's DPS drops with it. Unless you mean the ACR the CR is not the weapon to go with if you are in PC. Although the best explainable reason for using the CR in PC is its higher DPS output and ease of use. Even though the SCR has a higher damage output it is harder to use, if the SCR didn't kill itself with overheat that would be the go to gun.
Sorry but i see only CR and ACR in PC. Rail are really few in numbers.
And if i have to choose a weapon that need to be looked i'd like to say CR/ACR. the rail has a little and ridicule recoil, but it has some at least.
Getting practically istantkilled while you're wearing a heavy suit with 600Shield and 1018 Armor docent seem right to me.
BTW the main problem are always DMG mod.
@ RR Balance solution: Cut the ROF, keep the range. Give heavy something to fight at some range, AND LOCK THE ******* LIGHT WEAPON ON HEAVY FRAME.
Once you try "HMG-FAT" you never get back...
|
OliX PRZESMIEWCA
Bezimienni...
6
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 13:34:00 -
[85] - Quote
Kira Takizawa wrote:OliX PRZESMIEWCA wrote:Generally 100 % bullshit.
Try to fire RR while strafe, when your opponent is on the move.
How many same topics you will start over and over? I have and you sir are stupid
Sorry but I can't understand japan to english translation :)
What You have?? Stupidity ?? Or Fukushima melt something else than reactor??? |
Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
709
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 15:51:00 -
[86] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:Rail rifle is fine, but it's going to be over nerfed and then everyones gonna switch to combat rifles and nerf that too.
And thus the cycle continues...shame, really. Both need a nerf actually...
Ok...and your primary weapon is what? Something not getting nerfed?
Not trying to poke you, trying to understand where you are coming from on this. I use RR because it's Caldari, I like a mid to long range style and I shield tank (range = survivability) and oh by the way...I've got a pretty average gun game. I get a lot of kills with my SMG simply because it evens out the disadvantages I have with the RR. I totally understand the range overmatch concerns but the weapon needs to be functional across the engagement spectrum.
Nerfs that top end players like you support for some of the weapons are waaay more crippling to the majority of bell curve in the player base.
How's this for middle ground: 1) increase the Spool time to .5sec BUT give RR users an SP sink to bring the spool time down to .2sec at LVL V. 2) decrease RR hip fire accuracy of the RR by 20% 3) increase AR hip fire accuracy by 10% 4). Have a MagSec variant that doesn't have a spool time (assault variant) with slightly decreased range and damage to give the Caldari a one solid CQC weapon.
"Third star to the right...straight ahead 'till morning."
|
Morathi III
Policeman of the Federation
119
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 16:02:00 -
[87] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:It's too accurate. Due to it's low fire rate (meaning you know when the bullets will fly out of the barrel) and EXTREME hip fire accuracy, it can apply full DPS at any time.
An AR, while accurate, is not as accurate, and unless the target is sitting still or moving RIGHT at you, you will never apply full DPS. Even while aiming down sights, due to it's fire rate if the target is moving you usually can't apply full DPS.
So you have a weapon with the same DPS as the AR, higher range, higher accuracy, better damage application...
RR DPS must be reduced, it's too accurate, has too much range and has too good of a damage application to have this much DPS. really not, you play with a gallente with dmg mod live with it, now you have a counter stop whinning you appear to never played an MMO |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
6173
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 16:10:00 -
[88] - Quote
Morathi III wrote:Cat Merc wrote:It's too accurate. Due to it's low fire rate (meaning you know when the bullets will fly out of the barrel) and EXTREME hip fire accuracy, it can apply full DPS at any time.
An AR, while accurate, is not as accurate, and unless the target is sitting still or moving RIGHT at you, you will never apply full DPS. Even while aiming down sights, due to it's fire rate if the target is moving you usually can't apply full DPS.
So you have a weapon with the same DPS as the AR, higher range, higher accuracy, better damage application...
RR DPS must be reduced, it's too accurate, has too much range and has too good of a damage application to have this much DPS. really not, you play with a gallente with dmg mod live with it, now you have a counter stop whinning you appear to never played an MMO So... What stops me from putting on an RR and making those damage mods even better?
You appear to have no logic.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
|
Morathi III
Policeman of the Federation
119
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 16:25:00 -
[89] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Morathi III wrote:Cat Merc wrote:It's too accurate. Due to it's low fire rate (meaning you know when the bullets will fly out of the barrel) and EXTREME hip fire accuracy, it can apply full DPS at any time.
An AR, while accurate, is not as accurate, and unless the target is sitting still or moving RIGHT at you, you will never apply full DPS. Even while aiming down sights, due to it's fire rate if the target is moving you usually can't apply full DPS.
So you have a weapon with the same DPS as the AR, higher range, higher accuracy, better damage application...
RR DPS must be reduced, it's too accurate, has too much range and has too good of a damage application to have this much DPS. really not, you play with a gallente with dmg mod live with it, now you have a counter stop whinning you appear to never played an MMO So... What stops me from putting on an RR and making those damage mods even better? You appear to have no logic. i did far better with my CR, insta kill even faster, better against caldari soldier |
Morathi III
Policeman of the Federation
119
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 16:26:00 -
[90] - Quote
and cat, i dont see you complaining about the SCR, that instakill a proto caldari..... |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |