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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
705
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Posted - 2014.02.01 23:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
Marlin Kirby wrote:
I want that ratio too. I think the range at which the AR becomes useless is too short. Or range in general in inherently impossible to balance, but I'm not positive yet.
Marlin - think you on to it. Range is very difficult to work around when balancing things, particulary when the intent is for the 4 basic rifles to be at least functional in all facets.
Couple key points:
1) My suspicion is that the majority of engagements are at ranges that all 4 rifles can compete. Very few players actually make the most of the upper end of the range for the RR. This is mostly due to how the maps are constructed in relation to objective points.
2) Many are complaining about the RR & CR...which sounds strkingly like the complaining about the AR and SCR prior to 1.7 dropping. I haven't noticed any increase in TTK in CQC with all four rifles. The time it takes an AR to shred my proto CalAssault is functionally not that much different than either the CR or RR. The SCR is my nemesis since I shield tank.
3) All 4 rifles could be considered "OP" depending on the skll of the user, SP invested, Suit fit of the opponnet, and Dmg mods of the shooter. ARs and SCRs didn't suddenly stop wrecking house...there are just more options.
4) To you point about range...no easy way to balance that. As we've all seen there is a VERY fine line between tweaking a weapon and making it non-functional.
"Third star to the right...straight ahead 'till morning."
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
705
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 04:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Now its a accuracy problem.
You know, quiet as its kept, the truth no one is talking about is player skill involved. The truth no one is talking about is that the CR really trumps. But the common merc doesn't know that.
The running theme? "I don't adapt my playstyle, the game must adapt to me. How could a person actually be good with a RR trump with CQC? That's utterly impossible! I demand a nerf!"
Michael - spot on. +1
No matter the weapon the top factor in lethality is the operator. This is the primary reason that I don't support nerfing any weapon at this point until all weapons, suits, moduels, equipment, and role perks are updated.
Quite a few folks on the forum claim they can pick up any weapon and have a slayfest with it...there are even a few of those folks I actually believe. If you fall into that category then that's great; I honestly want to get skilled enough to have that experience - but for the majority of players the drawbacks of weapons like the RR and SCR work pretty much as intended.
"Third star to the right...straight ahead 'till morning."
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
709
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Posted - 2014.02.02 15:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:Rail rifle is fine, but it's going to be over nerfed and then everyones gonna switch to combat rifles and nerf that too.
And thus the cycle continues...shame, really. Both need a nerf actually...
Ok...and your primary weapon is what? Something not getting nerfed?
Not trying to poke you, trying to understand where you are coming from on this. I use RR because it's Caldari, I like a mid to long range style and I shield tank (range = survivability) and oh by the way...I've got a pretty average gun game. I get a lot of kills with my SMG simply because it evens out the disadvantages I have with the RR. I totally understand the range overmatch concerns but the weapon needs to be functional across the engagement spectrum.
Nerfs that top end players like you support for some of the weapons are waaay more crippling to the majority of bell curve in the player base.
How's this for middle ground:
1) increase the Spool time to .5sec BUT give RR users an SP sink to bring the spool time down to .2sec at LVL V.
2) decrease RR hip fire accuracy of the RR by 20%
3) increase AR hip fire accuracy by 10%
4). Have a MagSec variant that doesn't have a spool time (assault variant) with slightly decreased range and damage to give the Caldari a one solid CQC weapon.
"Third star to the right...straight ahead 'till morning."
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
712
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Posted - 2014.02.02 19:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Charlotte O'Dell wrote:The RR is a CQC beast, yes, but nerfing accuracy for HF will only make it a better CQC weapon.
Case study:
PRE 1.7: HMG had the accuracy of a laser rifle- this made it almost impossible to use in CQC. By making it LESS accurate, it became a fearsome weapon.
To make the RR a worse CQC weapon, make its accuracy barely less than PERFECT while increasing kick AND increasing charge time to 0.35s
My primary concern is using the charge time as the rheostat for CQC functionality is that it can very easily go one tick too far and it's not useful at all. For me personnally, I'm much more open to tweak options that don't include increasing the charge time without an SP sink to offset disadvantage.
There are no clean ways of balancing things out. The AR, CR, SCR still have major advantages in close range over the RR and frankly are as lethal if not more so than the RR in equally skilled hands. The RR can be very lethal in short range fights in the right hands no question about that...the concern I hear mostly is that they are too good across the spectrum of engagements.
Would increasing the ADS zoom slightly (15%) and make hipfire recoil and dispersion significantly more pronounced work? The thought is to highlight the strength of the weapon and make it more unwieldy in CQC but not useless. This is actually pretty similar to how the physics of larger caliber battle rifles work in other games and real world.
ps...I've been putting more thought into how the rifles work with a full racial suite of weapons. Certain tweaks or nerfs to the RR would be much more palatable if the racial sidearm or alternate weapon perhaps offset some of the critical disadvantages. The MagSec should offer a mid range sidearm with spool time and variant with no spool time but less damage. Consider how the other racial weapon suites work together. When looked at in total there might be some better options than specifcally nerfing or tweaking a single weapon.
"Third star to the right...straight ahead 'till morning."
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