DUST Search - Amarr scout racial bonus parity problem

Ghost Kaisar wrote:

Zeylon Rho wrote:

Ghost Kaisar wrote:

Okay Aero, I did some theorycrafting at work, and some number crunching at home.

I saw in another thread that you guys wanted a reduction to Movement and Speed penalty to armor plates, but as I thought about it, that was a terrible idea. Every assault ever would take the suit and stack it to 700+ armor with no penalties. Combine with passive dampening, and the suit will be better than the assault.

How about a bonus to ferroscale plates? This gives them a decent abiltiy to armor tank without sacrificing speed.

Ferro's give 83 hp at proto. If they give the amarr 5% bonus per level they can get 101 armor out of a Complex Ferro.

They can then fit the following:

2x Complex Ferro
1x Complex Rep
1x Complex Damp

1x Complex Shield
1x Complex L Damage mod

This gives them 414 Armor and 148 shields for approximately 268 CPU and 59 PG. They also get 6hp/s armor rep and all of this at NO speed penalty. That's 562 eHP. That's a ton for a scout. AND they have a shield buffer and rep to go with it. The most combat scout of the 4.

That leaves them around 30 PG and 157 CPU to fit their weapons and equipment. Sound good?

I am open to feedback.

How many EHP can a Minmatar assault fit at proto? With just passive bonuses (Armor and Shield upgrades), they have 356.25 ehp. Add 3 Complex Shield Extenders (with bonus) and you have 574 ehp. That's more than the scout and the Minny Assault still has 4 slots open (2H, 2L). The Minmatar Assault is faster than the Amarr Scout as well.

Trying to make the scout tanky is a bad idea, its lack of speed advantage means the Minmatar Assault is better in every way.

Well I certainly hope that the Min Assault will be tougher and faster than the Amarr scout. How else will the assault do it's job?

My question is this. Can the Min Assault dodge scanners?

Nope. Not by a longshot.

The profile dampener is probably the biggest difference in your comparison. The min assault will be faster and tougher, but lack the ability to remain hidden.

I'm not sure about you, but when it comes down to scouting, I'll take less eHP and speed for dampening EVERY DAY.

The Amarr scout will be both tough and hard to detect, while retaining it's natural mobility. Those will be the biggest pluses to this suit.

This build gives it a huge advantage over other scouts in the combat area.

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2687	Posted - 2014.01.20 19:44:00 - [181] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Trying to make the scout tanky is a bad idea, its lack of speed advantage means the Minmatar Assault is better in every way. The scout has a smaller hit box, the ability to efficiently fit a cloak, a higher shield recharge rate, two equipment slots and more stamina. So, not every way. // Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3265	Posted - 2014.01.20 20:01:00 - [182] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: Trying to make the scout tanky is a bad idea, its lack of speed advantage means the Minmatar Assault is better in every way. The scout has a smaller hit box, the ability to efficiently fit a cloak, a higher shield recharge rate, two equipment slots and more stamina. So, not every way. The Amarr Scout is limited in being able to take advantage of the shield recharge rate. They have the lowest shield value of any of the scouts (60 base). With two highs at proto, this means they have the lowest possible max shield value of any proto suit in the game. It isn't that much of a strength. Their shield recharge rate is better than the Minmatar's, but compared to assaults in general it's not that great (Caldari standing at 25 hp/s base). The Shield recharge rate bonus on Assaults generally makes it higher too, putting a PRO Caldari above them in shield recharge, etc. The scout changes moved the dampened profile bonus to the base suit stat for all scouts, so they're all effectively dampened. The Assault might see a similar suit change as well, moving the shield recharge bonus to the base suit stats. The stamina and cloak wouldn't be about tanking, rather, that's about either avoiding a fight or starting an engagement on your terms. Your suit hp aren't a factor there. The two equipment slots also cease to be advantage when you factor in the cloak, if you count that - the scout only has one free slot. I'd prefer the Amarr scout were just faster than the assaults to begin with, but failing that.. trying to be a tank seems ill-advised. Join my cult.
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 2106	Posted - 2014.01.20 20:12:00 - [183] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Okay Aero, I did some theorycrafting at work, and some number crunching at home. I saw in another thread that you guys wanted a reduction to Movement and Speed penalty to armor plates, but as I thought about it, that was a terrible idea. Every assault ever would take the suit and stack it to 700+ armor with no penalties. Combine with passive dampening, and the suit will be better than the assault. How about a bonus to ferroscale plates? This gives them a decent abiltiy to armor tank without sacrificing speed. Ferro's give 83 hp at proto. If they give the amarr 5% bonus per level they can get 101 armor out of a Complex Ferro. They can then fit the following: 2x Complex Ferro 1x Complex Rep 1x Complex Damp 1x Complex Shield 1x Complex L Damage mod This gives them 414 Armor and 148 shields for approximately 268 CPU and 59 PG. They also get 6hp/s armor rep and all of this at NO speed penalty. That's 562 eHP. That's a ton for a scout. AND they have a shield buffer and rep to go with it. The most combat scout of the 4. That leaves them around 30 PG and 157 CPU to fit their weapons and equipment. Sound good? I am open to feedback. How many EHP can a Minmatar assault fit at proto? With just passive bonuses (Armor and Shield upgrades), they have 356.25 ehp. Add 3 Complex Shield Extenders (with bonus) and you have 574 ehp. That's more than the scout and the Minny Assault still has 4 slots open (2H, 2L). The Minmatar Assault is faster than the Amarr Scout as well. Trying to make the scout tanky is a bad idea, its lack of speed advantage means the Minmatar Assault is better in every way. Well I certainly hope that the Min Assault will be tougher and faster than the Amarr scout. How else will the assault do it's job? My question is this. Can the Min Assault dodge scanners? Nope. Not by a longshot. The profile dampener is probably the biggest difference in your comparison. The min assault will be faster and tougher, but lack the ability to remain hidden. I'm not sure about you, but when it comes down to scouting, I'll take less eHP and speed for dampening EVERY DAY. The Amarr scout will be both tough and hard to detect, while retaining it's natural mobility. Those will be the biggest pluses to this suit. This build gives it a huge advantage over other scouts in the combat area. Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face. Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 2106	Posted - 2014.01.20 20:16:00 - [184] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: Trying to make the scout tanky is a bad idea, its lack of speed advantage means the Minmatar Assault is better in every way. The scout has a smaller hit box, the ability to efficiently fit a cloak, a higher shield recharge rate, two equipment slots and more stamina. So, not every way. I'd prefer the Amarr scout were just faster than the assaults to begin with, but failing that.. trying to be a tank seems ill-advised. People need to stop comparing scout's tanking to assault tanking. THE ASSAULT WILL ALWAYS TANK BETTER. Look at how well they eHP tank compared to the OTHER SCOUTS. My current MK.0 build has 350 eHP. That's it. I have excellent regen and speed, but my eHP is CRAP. The Gallente can get as much eHP as the amarr scout, but they lose their biggest strengths (their dampeners and natural speed) Caldari scout can get 450 shields, but it loses it's ability to have insane counter-scout abilities (Scan precision and range) The Amarr scout can tank reliably, and will destroy any other scout in a head to head battle. Pair up an Amarr scout with a Cal scout and go to town on the other scouts. You will wreck them, I guarantee it. Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face. Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3265	Posted - 2014.01.20 21:29:00 - [185] - Quote A tank vs. scout scenario seems too fringe. I wouldn't want a bonus that makes the best tank... against other scouts. That's way too specific. Give me a means to make me a better SCOUT. Besides, even without a ferroscale bonus, the Amarr already has a hp edge (tiny though it may be) on other scouts. Taking a bonus in that direction would just give you a slightly better advantage... against scouts. You still wouldn't compete with assaults. As far as scanners, I believe you'd be sacrificing most of your low slots to avoid the focused proto scanner anyway, which would negate the usefulness of a ferroscale bonus. It's also "possible" that an assault could use a cloak, though we don't know the stats on those yet... or the new assault stats for that matter. Join my cult.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 193	Posted - 2014.01.21 09:48:00 - [186] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: A tank vs. scout scenario seems too fringe. I wouldn't want a bonus that makes the best tank... against other scouts. That's way too specific. Give me a means to make me a better SCOUT. Besides, even without a ferroscale bonus, the Amarr already has a hp edge (tiny though it may be) on other scouts. Taking a bonus in that direction would just give you a slightly better advantage... against scouts. You still wouldn't compete with assaults. As far as scanners, I believe you'd be sacrificing most of your low slots to avoid the focused proto scanner anyway, which would negate the usefulness of a ferroscale bonus. It's also "possible" that an assault could use a cloak, though we don't know the stats on those yet... or the new assault stats for that matter. This. The Amarr favor armor and laser damage. That's a general theme. It doesn't mean everything Amarr needs to be "assault" themed. "The Tank Logi." "The Tank Scout" "The Tank Tank" That just gets silly. They do actually have differentiated roles in EVE. Their logistics, interceptor, ewar, etc. ships are all geared to achieve those roles, not some half-assed hybrid of that role. If they did they'd wind up the one race with a totally useless interceptor because they decided it needed 5 extra tons of armor instead of speed, or a logistics ship with no reppers. The biggest issue with the Amarr Scout (crap bonus aside) is that it doesn't actually have any speed advantage over assault suits. As long as there's an assault suit that's faster than the Amarr scout, it means that paradigm of the scout being the "faster" suit is gone. The speed is supposed to be part of a scout's protection. If you don't have any edge on a large chunk of the assault population, then that's an issue. That's something that needs to be addressed I think. Bonus-wise... anything tank-y is stupid and doesn't fit the role anymore than dampening would on a heavy. You'd be sacrificing what could be a useful actual "scout" bonus for to be a bad-tank with a marginal advantage over other scouts (not a speed one at all) and no real advantage on anything else.
Ronan Elsword Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 124	Posted - 2014.01.21 09:54:00 - [187] - Quote I don't plan on going Amarr scout, but they have easily the worst racial bonus. "Nice House you have here Gallente, you can just feel the Freedom." -Looks in Closet- "Dear God"
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3278	Posted - 2014.01.21 18:01:00 - [188] - Quote I'd like to see the Amarr scout faster too, but I don't see them kicking up the speed on every scout to compensate. Join my cult.

CCP Saberwing C C P C C P Alliance 1166	Posted - 2014.01.22 03:46:00 - [189] - Quote Passing this on to the Design guys to have a look at. :) CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager // @kanafchian

Viktor Hadah Jr Critical-Impact 2015	Posted - 2014.01.22 03:50:00 - [190] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Passing this on to the Design guys to have a look at. :) Thank you so much! hugs Selling Templar BPO 250Mil

Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1691	Posted - 2014.01.22 03:52:00 - [191] - Quote Omg omg omg omg he saw this "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
Aqua-Regia 637	Posted - 2014.01.22 04:08:00 - [192] - Quote Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: A tank vs. scout scenario seems too fringe. I wouldn't want a bonus that makes the best tank... against other scouts. That's way too specific. Give me a means to make me a better SCOUT. Besides, even without a ferroscale bonus, the Amarr already has a hp edge (tiny though it may be) on other scouts. Taking a bonus in that direction would just give you a slightly better advantage... against scouts. You still wouldn't compete with assaults. As far as scanners, I believe you'd be sacrificing most of your low slots to avoid the focused proto scanner anyway, which would negate the usefulness of a ferroscale bonus. It's also "possible" that an assault could use a cloak, though we don't know the stats on those yet... or the new assault stats for that matter. This. The Amarr favor armor and laser damage. That's a general theme. It doesn't mean everything Amarr needs to be "assault" themed. "The Tank Logi." "The Tank Scout" "The Tank Tank" That just gets silly. They do actually have differentiated roles in EVE. Their logistics, interceptor, ewar, etc. ships are all geared to achieve those roles, not some half-assed hybrid of that role. If they did they'd wind up the one race with a totally useless interceptor because they decided it needed 5 extra tons of armor instead of speed, or a logistics ship with no reppers. The biggest issue with the Amarr Scout (crap bonus aside) is that it doesn't actually have any speed advantage over assault suits. As long as there's an assault suit that's faster than the Amarr scout, it means that paradigm of the scout being the "faster" suit is gone. The speed is supposed to be part of a scout's protection. If you don't have any edge on a large chunk of the assault population, then that's an issue. That's something that needs to be addressed I think. Bonus-wise... anything tank-y is stupid and doesn't fit the role anymore than dampening would on a heavy. You'd be sacrificing what could be a useful actual "scout" bonus for to be a bad-tank with a marginal advantage over other scouts (not a speed one at all) and no real advantage on anything else. Why make all scout suit do the same crap? Why can't the Amarr scout suit be the black sheep of the scout family? Why do a scout suit need to be just hide an seek. So why can't a Amarr scout suit be a tanker scout than a half ass tanker scout. GòöGòºGòºGòºGòºGòºGòºGòùGöÉGòôBPO / BPC Collector Gòû Gòó *S00NGäó*GòPGò¼GòºGò¬GòñGòñGò¬GòñGòºGòºGòñGò¬GòñGòñGò¬GòñGòºGòºGòíHELLOGòPGûá GòÜGòñGòñGòñGòñGòñGòñGò¥Dust 514 GòPGò¢§GòÆGòúAmarrGòáGòòGòÆGòúRNDGòáGòò
fawkuima juggalo Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 854	Posted - 2014.01.22 04:08:00 - [193] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: The Caldari Scout racial bonus is 5% scan radius per level and 5% scan precision per level. At level 5, this is the equivalent of one free standard range amplifier and one free complex precision enhancer (actually a little more since complex precision enhancers are 20%) The Gallente Scout racial bonus is 5% scan radius per level and 5% profile signature reduction per level At level 5, this is the equivalent of one free standard range amplifier and one free complex profile dampener. The Minmatar Scout racial bonus is 5% hacking speed and nova knife damage per level. At level 5, this is the equivalent of one free complex code breaker and multiple free complex sidearm damage modifiers And now for the fun part, The Amarr Scout racial bonus is 5% stamina recovery and max stamina per level. At level 5, this is the equivalent of less than one basic cardiac regulator, and that's it. A basic cardiac regulator does 25% more stamina and 50% more stamina recovery. So all other races get a free complex module and then some, but Amarr scout gets the short end of the stick here. I think it would be more than fair to bump this bonus to 20% stamina recovery and max stamina per level, which at level 5 would be 100% bonus to each which is the equivalent of one complex cardiac regulator. Amarr Bonus: 25% more stamina and 25% more stamina regen Standard Cardiac Regulator: 25% more stamina and 50% more stamina regen Gallente Bonus: 25% profile dampening (and 25% scan range) Complex Profile dampener: 25% profile dampening Caldari Bonus: 25% scan precision (and 25% scan range) Complex Precision Enhancer: 20% precision Minmatar Bonus: 25% hacking speed (and 25% NK damage) Complex Codebreaker: 25% hacking speed As you can see, every other race is getting a primary bonus that is the same or better than a complex module, and then a secondary bonus as well. Meanwhile, the Amarr only get a bonus that is not even as good as a standard module. Do you honestly think that is right? +1 great post..... but the amarr needs to be hooked up even more then that . if they get 1 std and 1 complex it should be the same for amarr. - LOGI REGISTRY / H.O.F. *NEW SEC ADDED -
kal berlin Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 1	Posted - 2014.01.22 06:27:00 - [194] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Okay Aero, I did some theorycrafting at work, and some number crunching at home. I saw in another thread that you guys wanted a reduction to Movement and Speed penalty to armor plates, but as I thought about it, that was a terrible idea. Every assault ever would take the suit and stack it to 700+ armor with no penalties. Combine with passive dampening, and the suit will be better than the assault. How about a bonus to ferroscale plates? This gives them a decent abiltiy to armor tank without sacrificing speed. Ferro's give 83 hp at proto. If they give the amarr 5% bonus per level they can get 101 armor out of a Complex Ferro. They can then fit the following: 2x Complex Ferro 1x Complex Rep 1x Complex Damp 1x Complex Shield 1x Complex L Damage mod This gives them 414 Armor and 148 shields for approximately 268 CPU and 59 PG. They also get 6hp/s armor rep and all of this at NO speed penalty. That's 562 eHP. That's a ton for a scout. AND they have a shield buffer and rep to go with it. The most combat scout of the 4. That leaves them around 30 PG and 157 CPU to fit their weapons and equipment. Sound good? I am open to feedback. How many EHP can a Minmatar assault fit at proto? With just passive bonuses (Armor and Shield upgrades), they have 356.25 ehp. Add 3 Complex Shield Extenders (with bonus) and you have 574 ehp. That's more than the scout and the Minny Assault still has 4 slots open (2H, 2L). The Minmatar Assault is faster than the Amarr Scout as well. Trying to make the scout tanky is a bad idea, its lack of speed advantage means the Minmatar Assault is better in every way. Well I certainly hope that the Min Assault will be tougher and faster than the Amarr scout. How else will the assault do it's job? My question is this. Can the Min Assault dodge scanners? Nope. Not by a longshot. The profile dampener is probably the biggest difference in your comparison. The min assault will be faster and tougher, but lack the ability to remain hidden. I'm not sure about you, but when it comes down to scouting, I'll take less eHP and speed for dampening EVERY DAY. The Amarr scout will be both tough and hard to detect, while retaining it's natural mobility. Those will be the biggest pluses to this suit. This build gives it a huge advantage over other scouts in the combat area. THIS IS NOT TO BE OVERLOOKED! I agree with OP that it should have a much bigger bonus. now with that out of the way, I would like to point out what makes a scout awesome and what makes a scout a risk. scouts are good at 1. stealth 2 POSITION POSITION POSITIONING! 3 running the $%^&* away 4 intel gathering for the squad 5 Elusiive point defense 6 skirmishing and general destroying the organizations of an enemy team usually in small groups or solo what scouts are Not good at. frontline combat straightup defense like a tanking heavy at a point (upcoming situational analysis assumes that a competent scout is coming up on a well tanked asualt suit from behind) as you can see, the scout is amazing at alot of stuff that will give you advantage in the first 1.5 SECONDS (the time it takes the usual merc to realize whats happened and turn around to face you) of combat, from then on if you haven't killed or maimed your pray it is usually time to make use of speed and stealth again and run away. with that amarr scout build an amarr scout merc will most likely have an amazing 2.5 SECONDS of combat almost completely in his favor due to that extra bit of tank. as a solo scout the number one reason I die is not because I have not used and/or positioning to my advantage it's simply becuase I will sometimes not last long enough to finish the fight began. Therefore, as an advanced gallente scout I realize that this amarr scout build would likely increase my K/D ratio massively even with the pathetic race attribute. This is what I have drawn from my experience as an advanced scout. 1. I know how to use my suit's advantages 2. I know that sometimes even with the perfect positioning I will die due to being paper thin 3. It is not that I am messing something up 4. ADDED STAYING POWER IS WHAT ALL SCOUTERS CRAVE DEEP IN THEIR HEARTS at the moment. (witness the outcry against aim assist by scouts that nerf speed tanking and really all other kinds of tanking for scouts) So I say long live the AMARR ASSUALT SCOUT SUIT cuz thats what it's meant to do! ;)
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1993	Posted - 2014.01.22 18:09:00 - [195] - Quote What will kind of matter will be the distance a scout can travel while cloaked. Right now, assuming we can cloak while sprinting, that range for an ADV cloak is 60s worth of running. Only an amarr scout with a cloak would be able to sprint that whole speed, but it's low base speed means that it will only be about 20m further than any other scouts with complex regulators after 60s or about 450m. With the 80s cloak, they would probably not increase the gap by much at the 550m ish range. My suggestion is that the the sprint speed multiplier for scouts varies beyond just the 1.4 multiplier for everything. Even if you increased the amarr stamina pool to a complex regulator level, that would really help on the regen side of things, because beyond the 60s window you need to either be jumping a ton to notice a difference, or sprinting in circles. At 60s+ you are basically running from red line to red line. I guess the advantage of not having to fit a complex regulator would be the biggest win. Getting a complex regulator bonus and also fitting a complex regulator wouldn't help you do anything but maybe increase your stamina regen rate to the point where you could sprint jump a lot more.
Llast 326 An Arkhos 1529	Posted - 2014.01.22 18:41:00 - [196] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: What will kind of matter will be the distance a scout can travel while cloaked. Right now, assuming we can cloak while sprinting, that range for an ADV cloak is 60s worth of running. Only an amarr scout with a cloak would be able to sprint that whole speed, but it's low base speed means that it will only be about 20m further than any other scouts with complex regulators after 60s or about 450m. With the 80s cloak, they would probably not increase the gap by much at the 550m ish range. My suggestion is that the the sprint speed multiplier for scouts varies beyond just the 1.4 multiplier for everything. Even if you increased the amarr stamina pool to a complex regulator level, that would really help on the regen side of things, because beyond the 60s window you need to either be jumping a ton to notice a difference, or sprinting in circles. At 60s+ you are basically running from red line to red line. I guess the advantage of not having to fit a complex regulator would be the biggest win. Getting a complex regulator bonus and also fitting a complex regulator wouldn't help you do anything but maybe increase your stamina regen rate to the point where you could sprint jump a lot more. From what I understand more movement creates more visibility or shimmer with the cloak, so stamina for distance is a benefit, rather than sprint speed. This of course depends on the amount of shimmer to movement ratioGÇª which we don't really know. Increasing the Stamina bonus is essentially eliminating the need to fit a Card, so it saves cpu/pg (which is marginal compared to other mods, not a huge benefit.) potentially saves a lot of sp, as you don't need to skill into biotics (unless you want to of course), and creates a free slot to fill with whatever you want (generally stacking Card is not a thing, unlike Damp, Precision, HP, Range amps, hacking, Damage mods, Kincats, repsGÇª ) KRRROOOOOOM
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1110	Posted - 2014.01.22 19:01:00 - [197] - Quote agreed. bring it in line with the rest of the suits.
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 820	Posted - 2014.01.22 19:05:00 - [198] - Quote Now that we have the cloak info, I'm pretty convinced that I just want the original cloaking bonus (reduced recharge) + a small stamina bonus. Amarr scouts will be terrible without a cloak. They are slow (especially if plated) they aren't bonused against scanners, they will be like weak versions of the Minmatar Assault if not fitting the cloak. The cloak will be the Amarr scout's primary means of defense, and they're the most "technologically advanced" race so a bonus to cloaks makes sense with the lore. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
True Adamance Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 6080	Posted - 2014.01.22 19:14:00 - [199] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Now that we have the cloak info, I'm pretty convinced that I just want the original cloaking bonus (reduced recharge) + a small stamina bonus. Amarr scouts will be terrible without a cloak. They are slow (especially if plated) they aren't bonused against scanners, they will be like weak versions of the Minmatar Assault if not fitting the cloak. The cloak will be the Amarr scout's primary means of defense, and they're the most "technologically advanced" race so a bonus to cloaks makes sense with the lore. However we can't really neglect game balance like that. Let Amarr scouts have cloak bonuses and we become the FoTM of scouts. Let the Gal be the FoTM of scouts. Gal Scout= best assault in the game. "My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 820	Posted - 2014.01.22 19:52:00 - [200] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Vell0cet wrote: Now that we have the cloak info, I'm pretty convinced that I just want the original cloaking bonus (reduced recharge) + a small stamina bonus. Amarr scouts will be terrible without a cloak. They are slow (especially if plated) they aren't bonused against scanners, they will be like weak versions of the Minmatar Assault if not fitting the cloak. The cloak will be the Amarr scout's primary means of defense, and they're the most "technologically advanced" race so a bonus to cloaks makes sense with the lore. However we can't really neglect game balance like that. Let Amarr scouts have cloak bonuses and we become the FoTM of scouts. Let the Gal be the FoTM of scouts. Gal Scout= best assault in the game. I don't think the cloak bonus will make the Amarr scout the FOTM. Other scouts have a TON going for them and shaving a few seconds off of the cloak recharge isn't exactly game-breaking. I think Minjas with Nova Knives are going to be the real threat: they're already very deadly in the right hands now, give them cloaks and they're going to tear people to pieces. Again, our natural racial strengths (plates and HP's) aren't an advantage on the scout suit. Scouts tank via stealth, speed and surprise. The cloak will be our main strength. *Running slowly for a long time is just fcking stupid!** I could hop in an LAV, get where I need to be and then cloak up in much less time. The bonus will only come into play when you've drained your STA pool, unlike bonuses to profile damps which are effective the entire match. Cloak bonus makes sense, it's not OP, but it makes it possible for the Amarr scout to spend more time cloaked in a match (but doesn't increase the duration of the cloak) by having shorter "down time" which will be it's primary defense mechanism. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea

The-Errorist 476	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:43:00 - [201] - Quote This is an OUTRAGE!!
Verek Locusti Storm Ventures For All Mankind 13	Posted - 2014.01.23 09:25:00 - [202] - Quote +1 Think a lot of people are underestimating how useful the stamina is, but the suit's bonus as-is falls far behind the others. Could probably use an additional bonus as well, perhaps a fitting req reduction on scrambler weps or uplinks, or possibly a bonus to rep modules.
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 239	Posted - 2014.01.25 12:30:00 - [203] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: It is so freaking simple I don't know how to explain it in a simpler way. The bonuses can be directly related to module effects, and as such can be directly related with modules. This way we can count the effectiveness of the bonuses in modules. In other words, if you fit this exact number of modules on a different suit, you would arrive at the same performance level as the suit in question. Minmatar suit bonuses = 5 modules (4 prototype and 1 basic) Gallente suit bonuses = 3 modules (1 proto 1 adv 1 basic) Caldari suit bonuses = 3 modules (1 proto 2 basic) Amarr suit bonuses = 1 module (less than 1 militia) Have to disagree with you there - they simply are not directly comparable. If it was that simple, wouldn't balancing be easy? Clearly it is not. Again first of all, let me say that I agree with the Amarr scout suit needing something better. But your methods you use to try and prove that with numbers are inaccurate. I refer to an earlier post of mine. Take a complex sidearm damage module, and a complex light weapon damage module. Assume the same bonus for each one. You're saying that, if you put one bonus as a suit skill on suit A, and the other on suit B, then you've achieved perfect balance. But it's simply not true, is it? Would you say that is balanced? I dunno, maybe you would, I certainly wouldn't. Have you considered how the figures might look if you tried to factor the bonuses a different way? Let's say you broke each one down to it's lowest component, for example, Nova Knife damage bonus, Assault Rifle damage bonus, Nova Knife charge bonus, Assault Rifle kick bonus, etc. etc. - that's a long list. Then you attribute a weighting to each of these based on how powerful you think the effect is. Then, take all the modules you might want to fit, and break those bonuses down too. So a sidearm damage module would equate to NK bonus + ScrP bonus + Flaylock bonus etc etc. Then do the same for light weapon damage module: AR bonus + Shotgun bonus + Sniper Rifle bonus etc. Then depending on which weapons you fit, you can calculate the relative power of each suit in a much more accurate way that takes into account your opinion on whether an AR damage mod beats a scrambler pistol damage mod. Sure that's far harder and a lot more involved, but without weighting equivalent valued bonuses or modules against each other, any proofs you try to show us all without acknowledging their inaccuracies are just gonna make ppl think you're being stubborn and refusing to accept anything other than your way. Could you give me your counter-argument to this? Say you disagree and why? One of us will learn something :)


Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page