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IAmDuncanIdaho II
R 0 N 1 N
232
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Posted - 2014.01.19 14:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
MrShooter01 wrote:Crazy idea for amarr scout bonus: reduction to deployed drop uplink scan profile?
At level 5, your drop uplinks would be all but invisible to any type of scan and must be hunted down visually
Have to say I like this sort of creative thinking. Making each racial choice of scout have a specialist ability would be good I think. Only other 1.8 scout suit with this is minmatar's hack speed.
Onto the general discussions here............
I dont think it's as easy as this to say something is or isn't balanced. Just converting suit bonuses into modules might be useful for vague comparisons, but it doesn't paint the whole picture. As an example (and as others have pointed out, and others have flamed), take the Minnie's 25% nova knife bonus at L5. That's *not* the equivalent of a complex sidearm damage module, because it *only* applies to the nova knife. That weapon is incredibly situational, only works for a specific play style, and difficult to use.
I've read some of ppl here's arguments around you can't discount the NK bonus just because it only applies to one weapon, and I agree, but I don't think anybody is trying to discount it. But at the same time you can't also say this bonus is equivalent to x number of y meta-level modules of any other module either. That is just not apples to apples.
Not really sure how to present this point in an easy to understand way. Consider this: what if you got the choice to decide between a 25% bonus to light weapon damage, or a 25% bonus to sidearm weapon damage? Would you say that suit A with the light bonus is better or worse off than suit B with the sidearm bonus? Pretty sure there isn't one answer here. It depends on your preferred fitting and playstyle.
Due to the sheer amount of DPS you get with light weapons versus sidearms, as well as the much larger variation in weapon ranges and the fact the sidearm is *supposed* to be the weaker weapon group of the two, I think we'd be hearing screams if this was happening. So no, you can't just say two suits are balanced if, after converting each suit's bonuses to equivalent modules, the meta-levels add up to the same number.
I think you'd have to figure out a way of weighting different modules to get a better comparison. Take the Amarr's stamina bonus. It's equivalent to a weaker module than complex, *but* that module applies to running and jumping, which a scout does a lot more of than any other suit. It is used more during gameplay, and is far less situational.
I think you're overblowing the minmatar's knife bonuses. The suit may turn out to have more going for it than other suits, but not to the degree some here are suggesting.
TL;DR
Agree with Amarr suit needing a buff, but not sure all the logic behind your comparisons is accurate. Not acknowledging this, or just flaming instead of having a reasonable conversation about how you may or may not be comparing apples to apples, just serves to undermine your methods that bring you to a conclusion I happen to agree with. |
IAmDuncanIdaho II
R 0 N 1 N
239
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Posted - 2014.01.25 12:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:
It is so freaking simple I don't know how to explain it in a simpler way. The bonuses can be directly related to module effects, and as such can be directly related with modules. This way we can count the effectiveness of the bonuses in modules. In other words, if you fit this exact number of modules on a different suit, you would arrive at the same performance level as the suit in question.
Minmatar suit bonuses = 5 modules (4 prototype and 1 basic)
Gallente suit bonuses = 3 modules (1 proto 1 adv 1 basic)
Caldari suit bonuses = 3 modules (1 proto 2 basic)
Amarr suit bonuses = 1 module (less than 1 militia)
Have to disagree with you there - they simply are not directly comparable. If it was that simple, wouldn't balancing be easy? Clearly it is not.
Again first of all, let me say that I agree with the Amarr scout suit needing something better. But your methods you use to try and prove that with numbers are inaccurate.
I refer to an earlier post of mine. Take a complex sidearm damage module, and a complex light weapon damage module. Assume the same bonus for each one. You're saying that, if you put one bonus as a suit skill on suit A, and the other on suit B, then you've achieved perfect balance. But it's simply not true, is it? Would you say that is balanced? I dunno, maybe you would, I certainly wouldn't.
Have you considered how the figures might look if you tried to factor the bonuses a different way? Let's say you broke each one down to it's lowest component, for example, Nova Knife damage bonus, Assault Rifle damage bonus, Nova Knife charge bonus, Assault Rifle kick bonus, etc. etc. - that's a long list. Then you attribute a weighting to each of these based on how powerful you think the effect is.
Then, take all the modules you might want to fit, and break those bonuses down too. So a sidearm damage module would equate to NK bonus + ScrP bonus + Flaylock bonus etc etc. Then do the same for light weapon damage module: AR bonus + Shotgun bonus + Sniper Rifle bonus etc.
Then depending on which weapons you fit, you can calculate the relative power of each suit in a much more accurate way that takes into account your opinion on whether an AR damage mod beats a scrambler pistol damage mod.
Sure that's far harder and a lot more involved, but without weighting equivalent valued bonuses or modules against each other, any proofs you try to show us all without acknowledging their inaccuracies are just gonna make ppl think you're being stubborn and refusing to accept anything other than your way.
Could you give me your counter-argument to this? Say you disagree and why? One of us will learn something :) |
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