DUST Search - Amarr scout racial bonus parity problem

Maken Tosch wrote:

I noticed the following stats.

Source:
http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/news.control/65556/1/dropsuitsuprising18.jpg
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=136370&find=unread/

[Race] [Max Stamina] [Stamina Rech. Rate]
Caldari, 200/30
Gallente, 200/30
Minmatar, 210/35
Amarr, 225/40

Now lets compare this to the other classes.
The best Commando suit (listed in the spreadsheet linked above) with the highest stamina and recharge rate is the Amarr Commando at 180/25.

The Assault suit (currently) with the best stamina and recharge is the Minmatar Mk.0 with 175/15.

The Logistics suit (currently) with the best stamina and recharge is the Logistics Ak.0 with 140/15.

The Amarr scout, without fittings, is technically the best scout suit with the most maximum stamina and recover of any suit in any class. It also has 2H and 4L. Compared to other suit classes, this makes the Amarr Scout favorable to those who prefer endurance across long distances.

Of course, the bonus only means that the effect will equal to one STD stamina mod compared to the bonuses that other suits in the same class get, but when taking into account the stamina amount and recovery of the Amarr Scout, this is not so bad.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Ruthless Lee The Eliminators 300	Posted - 2014.01.17 15:35:00 - [31] - Quote +1 I'm with ya, Aero...
MrShooter01 Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 443	Posted - 2014.01.17 17:36:00 - [32] - Quote Crazy idea for amarr scout bonus: reduction to deployed drop uplink scan profile? At level 5, your drop uplinks would be all but invisible to any type of scan and must be hunted down visually
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6478	Posted - 2014.01.17 17:38:00 - [33] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: I noticed the following stats. Source: http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/news.control/65556/1/dropsuitsuprising18.jpg https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=136370&find=unread/ [Race] [Max Stamina] [Stamina Rech. Rate] Caldari, 200/30 Gallente, 200/30 Minmatar, 210/35 Amarr, 225/40 Now lets compare this to the other classes. The best Commando suit (listed in the spreadsheet linked above) with the highest stamina and recharge rate is the Amarr Commando at 180/25. The Assault suit (currently) with the best stamina and recharge is the Minmatar Mk.0 with 175/15. The Logistics suit (currently) with the best stamina and recharge is the Logistics Ak.0 with 140/15. The Amarr scout, without fittings, is technically the best scout suit with the most maximum stamina and recover of any suit in any class. It also has 2H and 4L. Compared to other suit classes, this makes the Amarr Scout favorable to those who prefer endurance across long distances. Of course, the bonus only means that the effect will equal to one STD stamina mod compared to the bonuses that other suits in the same class get, but when taking into account the stamina amount and recovery of the Amarr Scout, this is not so bad. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Viktor Hadah Jr Critical-Impact 1935	Posted - 2014.01.17 17:39:00 - [34] - Quote Good find, hope CCP sees this thread. Selling Templar BPO 300Mil Earn 50Mil+ ISK in Dust
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1972	Posted - 2014.01.17 17:39:00 - [35] - Quote What if the Amarr bonus is equal to a complex Regulator and a standard kin cat? I think the Empire would have a bunch of expendable soldiers stuffed with biotics. Either way we shouldn't forget that the Gal scout has a free adv repper too. Try to kill it all you want CCP, I still <3 my laser.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2649	Posted - 2014.01.17 18:04:00 - [36] - Quote Good point made by the OP. +1 Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 337	Posted - 2014.01.17 18:05:00 - [37] - Quote Signed: Also, the minmatar scout is downright ridiculous. Minmatar get : 31.5 bonus to hacking speed (suit bonus and higher base suit value) 25% extra damage This is equivalent to more than 3 complex damage mods along with 1 free complex code-breaker and 1 free basic code breaker. Yep, *5 FREE MODULES* While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5327	Posted - 2014.01.17 20:12:00 - [38] - Quote Dirks Macker wrote: The Amarr suit has more survivability when you and the enemy are shooting at one another. You get either a free basic or enhanced ferroscale plate depending on which suit you are comparing it to. You can also stack armor, decloak, and survive much longer than the Minmatar and Caldari scout. You could be close with the Gallente, but why even cloak with the signature damp? That eliminates armor tanking if you go sans cloak. If you want to go the argument that Amarr get a extra armor then I'll counter you with the fact that all the other scouts get extra speed. There is already a balance in place for this, it does not need to transcend further down to the racial bonuses. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Kato Ymmij The Exemplars Top Men. 34	Posted - 2014.01.17 20:35:00 - [39] - Quote Would it be better if the amarr scout keeps its current stamina bonus (increase stamina recovery to 10%), but also gets a 5% damage bonus to scrambler pistols?
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5334	Posted - 2014.01.17 20:38:00 - [40] - Quote Kato Ymmij wrote: Would it be better if the amarr scout keeps its current stamina bonus (increase stamina recovery to 10%), but also gets a 5% damage bonus to scrambler pistols? per level? That sounds like too much for the scrambler pistol, also I'd rather have a bonus that is less direclty offensive in nature, but that is just my opinion. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open

Kato Ymmij The Exemplars Top Men. 34	Posted - 2014.01.17 20:44:00 - [41] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Kato Ymmij wrote: Would it be better if the amarr scout keeps its current stamina bonus (increase stamina recovery to 10%), but also gets a 5% damage bonus to scrambler pistols? per level? That sounds like too much for the scrambler pistol, also I'd rather have a bonus that is less direclty offensive in nature, but that is just my opinion. 2-3% per level, to keep the amarr scout bonus in line with the other scout bonuses (1 basic mod/1complex mod). I think it would be awesome to see some dual pistol scouts causing mayhem on the field.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5337	Posted - 2014.01.17 20:48:00 - [42] - Quote Kato Ymmij wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Kato Ymmij wrote: Would it be better if the amarr scout keeps its current stamina bonus (increase stamina recovery to 10%), but also gets a 5% damage bonus to scrambler pistols? per level? That sounds like too much for the scrambler pistol, also I'd rather have a bonus that is less direclty offensive in nature, but that is just my opinion. 2-3% per level, to keep the amarr scout bonus in line with the other scout bonuses (1 basic mod/1complex mod). I think it would be awesome to see some dual pistol scouts causing mayhem on the field. Well if we are actually going to make sense and make the Amarr scout bonuses like every other race with one basic module and one complex, I would agree that the stamina should be the standard module. Also then this would also mirror the Minmatar scout (weapon damage) much like the Gallente and Caldari mirror each other (dampening vs precision). I'll add this to the OP ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 338	Posted - 2014.01.17 20:52:00 - [43] - Quote Kato Ymmij wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Kato Ymmij wrote: Would it be better if the amarr scout keeps its current stamina bonus (increase stamina recovery to 10%), but also gets a 5% damage bonus to scrambler pistols? per level? That sounds like too much for the scrambler pistol, also I'd rather have a bonus that is less direclty offensive in nature, but that is just my opinion. 2-3% per level, to keep the amarr scout bonus in line with the other scout bonuses (1 basic mod/1complex mod). I think it would be awesome to see some dual pistol scouts causing mayhem on the field. Actually the bonuses (module wise) are all over the place: Effectively free modules through bonuses and passive suit bonus stats (like 3 hp/sec armor rep, or +5% hack speed); Minmatar : 5 (4 proto 1 basic) Gallente: 3 (1 proto, 1 adv, 1 basic) Caldari : 3 (1 proto, 2 basic) Amarr:: 1 (1 militia) While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
Kato Ymmij The Exemplars Top Men. 34	Posted - 2014.01.17 21:11:00 - [44] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Kato Ymmij wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Kato Ymmij wrote: Would it be better if the amarr scout keeps its current stamina bonus (increase stamina recovery to 10%), but also gets a 5% damage bonus to scrambler pistols? per level? That sounds like too much for the scrambler pistol, also I'd rather have a bonus that is less direclty offensive in nature, but that is just my opinion. 2-3% per level, to keep the amarr scout bonus in line with the other scout bonuses (1 basic mod/1complex mod). I think it would be awesome to see some dual pistol scouts causing mayhem on the field. Actually the bonuses (module wise) are all over the place: Effectively free modules through bonuses and passive suit bonus stats (like 3 hp/sec armor rep, or +5% hack speed); Minmatar : 5 (4 proto 1 basic) Gallente: 3 (1 proto, 1 adv, 1 basic) Caldari : 3 (1 proto, 2 basic) Amarr:: 1 (1 militia) I'm still not sure why CCP thought the minmatar scout needed to have a higher base hacking speed than the other scouts. The amarr scout still has more hp, stamina/recovery, and cpu/pg than the other scouts.
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 339	Posted - 2014.01.17 21:17:00 - [45] - Quote Kato Ymmij wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Kato Ymmij wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Kato Ymmij wrote: Would it be better if the amarr scout keeps its current stamina bonus (increase stamina recovery to 10%), but also gets a 5% damage bonus to scrambler pistols? per level? That sounds like too much for the scrambler pistol, also I'd rather have a bonus that is less direclty offensive in nature, but that is just my opinion. 2-3% per level, to keep the amarr scout bonus in line with the other scout bonuses (1 basic mod/1complex mod). I think it would be awesome to see some dual pistol scouts causing mayhem on the field. Actually the bonuses (module wise) are all over the place: Effectively free modules through bonuses and passive suit bonus stats (like 3 hp/sec armor rep, or +5% hack speed); Minmatar : 5 (4 proto 1 basic) Gallente: 3 (1 proto, 1 adv, 1 basic) Caldari : 3 (1 proto, 2 basic) Amarr:: 1 (1 militia) I'm still not sure why CCP thought the minmatar scout needed to have a higher base hacking speed than the other scouts. The amarr scout still has more hp, stamina/recovery, and cpu/pg than the other scouts. Nope, the amarrian scout will have the second lowest CPU, and the second most PG. ALL amarrian suits get extra hp and stamina for being the slowest suits in-game (in this case the amarrian scout will be SLOWER than the minmatar assault and base suits). While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
KING CHECKMATE Ametat Security Amarr Empire 3692	Posted - 2014.01.17 21:17:00 - [46] - Quote +1 and i'll leave this here since its related: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1732894#post1732894 GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1612	Posted - 2014.01.17 21:22:00 - [47] - Quote Kato Ymmij wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Kato Ymmij wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Kato Ymmij wrote: Would it be better if the amarr scout keeps its current stamina bonus (increase stamina recovery to 10%), but also gets a 5% damage bonus to scrambler pistols? per level? That sounds like too much for the scrambler pistol, also I'd rather have a bonus that is less direclty offensive in nature, but that is just my opinion. 2-3% per level, to keep the amarr scout bonus in line with the other scout bonuses (1 basic mod/1complex mod). I think it would be awesome to see some dual pistol scouts causing mayhem on the field. Actually the bonuses (module wise) are all over the place: Effectively free modules through bonuses and passive suit bonus stats (like 3 hp/sec armor rep, or +5% hack speed); Minmatar : 5 (4 proto 1 basic) Gallente: 3 (1 proto, 1 adv, 1 basic) Caldari : 3 (1 proto, 2 basic) Amarr:: 1 (1 militia) I'm still not sure why CCP thought the minmatar scout needed to have a higher base hacking speed than the other scouts. The amarr scout still has more hp, stamina/recovery, and cpu/pg than the other scouts. The hacking one is easy, that's compensation for the loss of that bonus to the Minnie logi. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor! Forum Warrior lv.1
Kato Ymmij The Exemplars Top Men. 34	Posted - 2014.01.17 21:26:00 - [48] - Quote The hacking one is easy, that's compensation for the loss of that bonus to the Minnie logi. [/quote] Just checked again and you're right about the cpu/pg. I was talking about the base hack speed the min scout has and not the bonus that it is also receiving.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2623	Posted - 2014.01.17 21:28:00 - [49] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Effectively free modules through bonuses and passive suit bonus stats (like 3 hp/sec armor rep, or +5% hack speed); Minmatar : 5 (4 proto 1 basic) Gallente: 3 (1 proto, 1 adv, 1 basic) Caldari : 3 (1 proto, 2 basic) Amarr:: 1 (1 militia) Actually, the damage bonus for the Minmatar is 2 x complex and 1 x enhanced but that's not my point here. The Minmatar Scout has the lowest buffer and will need 1 x enhanced shield extender to compete with the Gallente and Caldari or 1 x complex to compete with the Amarr. The Amarr has the best defensive buffer so I'd suggest adding one innate module for them and subtracting one from the Minmatar. In the end the Amarr suit is still somewhat lacking in capability and the Minmatar has the most capability if it can survive long enough to do its mission. // Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 341	Posted - 2014.01.17 21:29:00 - [50] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: The hacking one is easy, that's compensation for the loss of that bonus to the Minnie logi. I have read this like 5 times but I can't make any sense of it. Are you claiming that since the hacking speed bonus got moved from the min logi to min scout, that they also deserved an extra 5% hacking speed over the other scouts on top of it? While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.

Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 341	Posted - 2014.01.17 21:33:00 - [51] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Effectively free modules through bonuses and passive suit bonus stats (like 3 hp/sec armor rep, or +5% hack speed); Minmatar : 5 (4 proto 1 basic) Gallente: 3 (1 proto, 1 adv, 1 basic) Caldari : 3 (1 proto, 2 basic) Amarr:: 1 (1 militia) Actually, the damage bonus for the Minmatar is 2 x complex and 1 x enhanced but that's not my point here. The Minmatar Scout has the lowest buffer and will need 1 x enhanced shield extender to compete with the Gallente and Caldari or 1 x complex to compete with the Amarr. The Amarr has the best defensive buffer so I'd suggest adding one innate module for them and subtracting one from the Minmatar. In the end the Amarr suit is still somewhat lacking in capability and the Minmatar has the most capability if it can survive long enough to do its mission. dmg mods (with stacking penalties) 1 = 10% 2 = 18.7% 3 = 24.4% Yes, a 25% bonus to damage is equivalent to 3 prototype damge mods. Oh and minmatar trade HP for speed, an amarrian suit would need a complex kin-cat just to match the sprint speed of the minnies(it is impossible for an amarrian suit to strafe as fast as a minmatar suit), so your HP claim is moot. Anyway my assertion stands. Minmatar scouts are pretty OP right now. While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12274	Posted - 2014.01.17 21:37:00 - [52] - Quote /This has been tagged by Kane CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2623	Posted - 2014.01.17 21:38:00 - [53] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: dmg mods (with stacking penalties) 1 = 10% 2 = 18.7% 3 = 24.4% Yes, a 25% bonus to damage is equivalent to 3 prototype damge mods. Oh and minmatar trade HP for speed, an amarrian suit would need a complex kin-cat just to match the sprint speed of the minnies(it is impossible for an amarrian suit to strafe as fast as a minmatar suit), so your HP claim is moot. Anyway my assertion stands. Minmatar scouts are pretty OP right now. Right, stacking penalty, but it is only at arm's length but cloaking should make that easier to apply. I wish the speed bonus meant more. Strafing doesn't do much right now. Other than defenses I do agree the Minmatar has the strongest benefits right now and the Amarr has the weakest. // Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2623	Posted - 2014.01.17 21:39:00 - [54] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: /This has been tagged by Kane Meaning it'll be presented by the CPM to be reviewed for further changes by CCP? // Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 341	Posted - 2014.01.17 21:41:00 - [55] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: dmg mods (with stacking penalties) 1 = 10% 2 = 18.7% 3 = 24.4% Yes, a 25% bonus to damage is equivalent to 3 prototype damge mods. Oh and minmatar trade HP for speed, an amarrian suit would need a complex kin-cat just to match the sprint speed of the minnies(it is impossible for an amarrian suit to strafe as fast as a minmatar suit), so your HP claim is moot. Anyway my assertion stands. Minmatar scouts are pretty OP right now. Right, stacking penalty, but it is only at arm's length but cloaking should make that easier to apply. I wish the speed bonus meant more. Strafing doesn't do much right now. Other than defenses I do agree the Minmatar has the strongest benefits right now and the Amarr has the weakest. I wrote a bunch more in an edit above. You should read it, then you can easily see that the amarrian scout is just horribly outmatched by the minmatar suit in every possible way. While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 678	Posted - 2014.01.17 21:49:00 - [56] - Quote I'd swap you the stamina and stamina regen for the knife bonus In your blind spot CPM, Remnant, Wolfman - Respect ~
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 678	Posted - 2014.01.17 21:52:00 - [57] - Quote Also please drop this Minmatar complex damage bonus argument - its tied to one weapon. If that was the only sidearm in the game then you might have a point. - For knifers its great for the rest, not so much. In your blind spot CPM, Remnant, Wolfman - Respect ~
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 342	Posted - 2014.01.17 22:00:00 - [58] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Also please drop this Minmatar complex damage bonus argument - its tied to one weapon. If that was the only sidearm in the game then you might have a point. - For knifers its great for the rest, not so much. Thats nonsense. You can't discount a bonus like that. The amarrian assault's old bonus and the future amarrian commando bonus will only apply to two weapons (scrambler/laser rifles), should we discount them as well? It doesn't change the fact that it is a bonus that is equivalent to 3 complex damage mods. While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5343	Posted - 2014.01.17 22:05:00 - [59] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Also please drop this Minmatar complex damage bonus argument - its tied to one weapon. If that was the only sidearm in the game then you might have a point. - For knifers its great for the rest, not so much. But nonetheless if you equip the knives than that is exactly what you are getting. I'm not saying it is too much or not though. Would would you say if Amarr scout also got a scrambler pistol bonus? 2-3% damage per level, in addition to it's current bonus? That would make it like the Minmatar bonus with a damage mod to a specific sidearm. I'm still not convinced on this thought, but it is quite interesting and I'd love to hear more opinions. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12276	Posted - 2014.01.17 22:10:00 - [60] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: /This has been tagged by Kane Meaning it'll be presented by the CPM to be reviewed for further changes by CCP? Tagged past tense, its been brought to my attention as well so incase of laspe Ill pick up for him. My thoughts. Overall the Minmatar is bonus is not that overblown, reason being I can shove a pistol on it and get no benefit, only the knives do So we're talking about a module that is going to only have 1/7th of the module's active effectiveness. Also all scouts have innate hacking bonuses preinstalled, just minmatar are going to be the most obvious. However do remember they are looking into nerfing the way damage mods work from outright reduction in percentages and further reducing the overall proficiency gains. NKs are likely to be least disturbed as they are a '5th' damage type that deals 100a/100s damage As for amarr disparity it is a decent point to bring up, it may be grounds for a percent more or so, also there is no stacking penalty against this bonus, so the first module adds an unadulterated bonus. Where as the gallente trying to match would lose out on total effectiveness. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked



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