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Black SlaverX
Seykal Expeditionary Group
Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2013.12.13 03:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
ISKIES are NOT a balancing factor. For proof, see titans and supercarriers.
So why do tanks require no teamwork at all, but to take the out requires tremendous teamwork? |
The Attorney General
1637
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Posted - 2013.12.13 03:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
You can solo a tank, it just takes smarts, and patience.
When you develop them, tanks will fall.
Until then, practice.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR
F.T.U.
IMMORTAL REGIME
821
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Posted - 2013.12.13 03:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
good question. but in actuality, isk IS a balancing factor.
if the tanks like now, have to be teamed up on with proto AV and they cost less than my proto scout suit, then that's a problem.
now if said tank cost 3,000,000 isk, then requiring 3 proto forges to take them down sounds more reasonable, right?
Tell me, how exactly DOES a biscuit gain Valor?
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3082
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Posted - 2013.12.13 03:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Black SlaverX wrote:ISKIES are NOT a balancing factor. For proof, see titans and supercarriers.
So why do tanks require no teamwork at all, but to take the out requires tremendous teamwork?
Because tank514
SCR User Since release. Charge shot / Aim to the head / Listen to QQ
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3082
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Posted - 2013.12.13 03:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:You can solo a tank with AV, it just takes smarts, and patience unlike driving a tank in 1.7
.
fixed*
SCR User Since release. Charge shot / Aim to the head / Listen to QQ
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The Attorney General
1637
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Posted - 2013.12.13 03:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:The Attorney General wrote:You can solo a tank with AV, it just takes smarts, and patience unlike driving a tank in 1.7
. fixed*
Really, I was trying to be nice and engage in dicussion. This is how you respond.
That is what happens when you try and show some pity to a garbage AV'er.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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AetherFall
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2013.12.13 03:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR wrote:good question. but in actuality, isk IS a balancing factor.
if the tanks like now, have to be teamed up on with proto AV and they cost less than my proto scout suit, then that's a problem.
now if said tank cost 3,000,000 isk, then requiring 3 proto forges to take them down sounds more reasonable, right?
Yup. Another pointing factor is that tanks should be fairly rare. My last match of the night had four enemy tanks and three friendlies. Seven tanks in a single match is ridiculous.
I love CCP.... BUT big time fail here guys. Tanks cannot be this cheap. I'm fine with power level. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
8608
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 04:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
AetherFall wrote:TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR wrote:good question. but in actuality, isk IS a balancing factor.
if the tanks like now, have to be teamed up on with proto AV and they cost less than my proto scout suit, then that's a problem.
now if said tank cost 3,000,000 isk, then requiring 3 proto forges to take them down sounds more reasonable, right?
Yup. Another pointing factor is that tanks should be fairly rare. My last match of the night had four enemy tanks and three friendlies. Seven tanks in a single match is ridiculous. I love CCP.... BUT big time fail here guys. Tanks cannot be this cheap. I'm fine with power level.
Given that they're squishier than they've ever been thus far, the price is just about right.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
3087
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Posted - 2013.12.13 04:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:AetherFall wrote:TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR wrote:good question. but in actuality, isk IS a balancing factor.
if the tanks like now, have to be teamed up on with proto AV and they cost less than my proto scout suit, then that's a problem.
now if said tank cost 3,000,000 isk, then requiring 3 proto forges to take them down sounds more reasonable, right?
Yup. Another pointing factor is that tanks should be fairly rare. My last match of the night had four enemy tanks and three friendlies. Seven tanks in a single match is ridiculous. I love CCP.... BUT big time fail here guys. Tanks cannot be this cheap. I'm fine with power level. Given that they're squishier than they've ever been thus far, the price is just about right.
Indeed, the reason the price doesn't come into play as much as it should is the new bug tanks have acquired, making taking them out a pain.
Sinboto - The True Blood Minja
Forum Warrior level 3
STB-Infantry (Demolition)
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
904
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Posted - 2013.12.13 04:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
True,
the combination of tanks being hard and their extreme speed makes it bad combination for being able to be solo operated.
If they were slow their added vulnerability would justify the solo operation.
Feeling the scanner is too simple and off balance?
The fix:
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Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
372
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Posted - 2013.12.13 04:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:You can solo a tank, it just takes smarts, and patience.
When you develop them, tanks will fall.
Until then, practice.
Show us a vid of how you kill tanks...not using another tank. Not whining, just want to see all these "brilliant" strategies.
It's something in the game that you cannot even deter a charging tank. They throw on hardeners, plow in, lay waste to what they can and then zoom off. Nothing can alpha enough damage to kill them.
SOMETHING should hurt through hardeners. Not saying it needs to be AV in the traditional sense but right now tanks pay too little attention to surroundings. I vote for Proxies because Lord knows those need some help. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
8609
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 04:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sinboto Simmons wrote:Cosgar wrote:AetherFall wrote:TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR wrote:good question. but in actuality, isk IS a balancing factor.
if the tanks like now, have to be teamed up on with proto AV and they cost less than my proto scout suit, then that's a problem.
now if said tank cost 3,000,000 isk, then requiring 3 proto forges to take them down sounds more reasonable, right?
Yup. Another pointing factor is that tanks should be fairly rare. My last match of the night had four enemy tanks and three friendlies. Seven tanks in a single match is ridiculous. I love CCP.... BUT big time fail here guys. Tanks cannot be this cheap. I'm fine with power level. Given that they're squishier than they've ever been thus far, the price is just about right. Indeed, the reason the price doesn't come into play as much as it should is the new bug tanks have acquired, making taking them out a pain.
Given CCP's track record for balancing for stuff still on the drawing board, we might be getting stasis webs pretty soon.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Heathen Bastard
The Bastard Brigade
740
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Posted - 2013.12.13 04:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Galvan Nized wrote:The Attorney General wrote:You can solo a tank, it just takes smarts, and patience.
When you develop them, tanks will fall.
Until then, practice. Show us a vid of how you kill tanks...not using another tank. Not whining, just want to see all these "brilliant" strategies. It's something in the game that you cannot even deter a charging tank. They throw on hardeners, plow in, lay waste to what they can and then zoom off. Nothing can alpha enough damage to kill them. SOMETHING should hurt through hardeners. Not saying it needs to be AV in the traditional sense but right now tanks pay too little attention to surroundings. I vote for Proxies because Lord knows those need some help.
tanks hurt through hardeners. seriously. if it's hardeners are up, nothing short of another tank is going to put that bastard in the ground, so save your ammo and get to a better position to fire on it when it stops glowing.
If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
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KING CHECKMATE
Scions of Athra
3083
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Posted - 2013.12.13 04:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:The Attorney General wrote:You can solo a tank with AV, it just takes smarts, and patience unlike driving a tank in 1.7
. fixed* Really, I was trying to be nice and engage in dicussion. This is how you respond. That is what happens when you try and show some pity to a garbage AV'er.
You were not showing pity. You were saying :
''you need skill and strategy to be good at AV''
And im being more specific: ''but we tankers dont''
SCR User Since release. Charge shot / Aim to the head / Listen to QQ
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loumanchew
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
152
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Posted - 2013.12.13 04:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
Because my vehicule fit costs 5 times more than your AVer fit. If you want to kill a dropship without fail, just get a railgun tank, they are the FOTM. Don't want to spend the ISK? Then stfu. |
Jason Pearson
3313
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Posted - 2013.12.13 04:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
Because, we can't balance AV and tanks on current **** in game, we need more.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128228&find=unread
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire
Laugh at the idiots crying about four BPOs being removed erryday, lul
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Ardenis Sthresiut
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
13
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Posted - 2013.12.13 04:18:00 -
[17] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5lIWti4VUw |
Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
372
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Posted - 2013.12.13 04:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
Heathen Bastard wrote:Galvan Nized wrote:The Attorney General wrote:You can solo a tank, it just takes smarts, and patience.
When you develop them, tanks will fall.
Until then, practice. Show us a vid of how you kill tanks...not using another tank. Not whining, just want to see all these "brilliant" strategies. It's something in the game that you cannot even deter a charging tank. They throw on hardeners, plow in, lay waste to what they can and then zoom off. Nothing can alpha enough damage to kill them. SOMETHING should hurt through hardeners. Not saying it needs to be AV in the traditional sense but right now tanks pay too little attention to surroundings. I vote for Proxies because Lord knows those need some help. tanks hurt through hardeners. seriously. if it's hardeners are up, nothing short of another tank is going to put that bastard in the ground, so save your ammo and get to a better position to fire on it when it stops glowing.
This is an issue...Some kind of AV should wound tanks with hardeners. Meaning not only do ANY damage but do a LEGIT amount. It doesn't have to be FGs, Swarms, or PlCs. But it would be GREAT for proxies as these are a defensive tool and not offensive. Again these suck so would be a great help.
Forums are lagging for me so please ignore any double posts. |
Jason Pearson
3317
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Posted - 2013.12.13 04:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
Galvan Nized wrote:Heathen Bastard wrote:Galvan Nized wrote:The Attorney General wrote:You can solo a tank, it just takes smarts, and patience.
When you develop them, tanks will fall.
Until then, practice. Show us a vid of how you kill tanks...not using another tank. Not whining, just want to see all these "brilliant" strategies. It's something in the game that you cannot even deter a charging tank. They throw on hardeners, plow in, lay waste to what they can and then zoom off. Nothing can alpha enough damage to kill them. SOMETHING should hurt through hardeners. Not saying it needs to be AV in the traditional sense but right now tanks pay too little attention to surroundings. I vote for Proxies because Lord knows those need some help. tanks hurt through hardeners. seriously. if it's hardeners are up, nothing short of another tank is going to put that bastard in the ground, so save your ammo and get to a better position to fire on it when it stops glowing. This is an issue...Some kind of AV should wound tanks with hardeners. Meaning not only do ANY damage but do a LEGIT amount. It doesn't have to be FGs, Swarms, or PlCs. But it would be GREAT for proxies as these are a defensive tool and not offensive. Again these suck so would be a great help.
Proxys need a buff sure, but make it strong enough to kill a HAV with actives on and you allow it one shot a LAV no matter what, along with any other vehicles coming out, it also doesn't help with what happens when they bring more air vehicles out.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire
Laugh at the idiots crying about four BPOs being removed erryday, lul
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Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
372
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Posted - 2013.12.13 04:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Galvan Nized wrote:Heathen Bastard wrote:Galvan Nized wrote:The Attorney General wrote:You can solo a tank, it just takes smarts, and patience.
When you develop them, tanks will fall.
Until then, practice. Show us a vid of how you kill tanks...not using another tank. Not whining, just want to see all these "brilliant" strategies. It's something in the game that you cannot even deter a charging tank. They throw on hardeners, plow in, lay waste to what they can and then zoom off. Nothing can alpha enough damage to kill them. SOMETHING should hurt through hardeners. Not saying it needs to be AV in the traditional sense but right now tanks pay too little attention to surroundings. I vote for Proxies because Lord knows those need some help. tanks hurt through hardeners. seriously. if it's hardeners are up, nothing short of another tank is going to put that bastard in the ground, so save your ammo and get to a better position to fire on it when it stops glowing. This is an issue...Some kind of AV should wound tanks with hardeners. Meaning not only do ANY damage but do a LEGIT amount. It doesn't have to be FGs, Swarms, or PlCs. But it would be GREAT for proxies as these are a defensive tool and not offensive. Again these suck so would be a great help. Proxys need a buff sure, but make it strong enough to kill a HAV with actives on and you allow it one shot a LAV no matter what, along with any other vehicles coming out, it also doesn't help with what happens when they bring more air vehicles out.
One shot? Man 1 Proxy MIGHT break 1000 damage if it's on armor. You literally have to stack these to do anything, and by stack I mean 5+. They are defensive, not like they nail your tank or LAV from 300m. Stay off the congested roads and don't be predictable and you'd never see them.
With proper infantry support you could easily get rid of a few proximity explosives...just can't zoom around the map solo at all times anymore. This helps to make a hard deterrent to tanks, something that takes TEAMWORK to set up AND overcome. |
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ballistic surgeon
killer taxi company
General Tso's Alliance
12
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Posted - 2013.12.13 05:54:00 -
[21] - Quote
I say if a tanker turns on its hardener then speed is reduced (it can still get away from most dropsuits, maybe a scout w/ kin cats can keep up with it) and cannot fire its weapon. It should be a defensive mechanism to get away from an enemy to replenish its sheilds/armor. I think someone else mentioned this as well, the hardeners time limit should decrease faster the more damage it takes. Also if enough damage is dealt to a vehicle (lets say 300 hp left) its acceleration/ top speed/ maneuverability decreases. On the other side of the discussion, I am glad that CCP nerfed av items bcuz I was one of those guys killing tanks by myself way too easily (dren dropsuit, bpo swarm launcher and packed av grenades). |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1480
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 05:55:00 -
[22] - Quote
Black SlaverX wrote:ISKIES are NOT a balancing factor. For proof, see titans and supercarriers.
So why do tanks require no teamwork at all, but to take the out requires tremendous teamwork?
Did you even read any of the threads posted by CCP relating to 1.7?
Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1480
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Posted - 2013.12.13 06:04:00 -
[23] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Black SlaverX wrote:ISKIES are NOT a balancing factor. For proof, see titans and supercarriers.
So why do tanks require no teamwork at all, but to take the out requires tremendous teamwork?
Because tank514
It's the rebuild you and your ilk forced on CCP. If you don't like it, that's too bad.
Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
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True Adamance
Scions of Athra
4864
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Posted - 2013.12.13 06:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
Black SlaverX wrote:ISKIES are NOT a balancing factor. For proof, see titans and supercarriers.
So why do tanks require no teamwork at all, but to take the out requires tremendous teamwork?
ISKIES are a balancing factor, they guys who bring 30 Battleships should always beat the guys who bring 6 cruisers.....
"Shudder. Again another smart idea from an Amarr..."- Forlorn Destrier (11/12/13) LAWL
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Black SlaverX
Seykal Expeditionary Group
Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2013.12.13 06:16:00 -
[25] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Black SlaverX wrote:ISKIES are NOT a balancing factor. For proof, see titans and supercarriers.
So why do tanks require no teamwork at all, but to take the out requires tremendous teamwork? ISKIES are a balancing factor, they guys who bring 30 Battleships should always beat the guys who bring 6 cruisers.....
No, that is a teamwork advantage, those 30 Battleships cost way more than the couple bombers it takes to pop them all.
CCP has always maintained that isk is not a balancing factor. |
Heathen Bastard
The Bastard Brigade
743
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 06:18:00 -
[26] - Quote
Black SlaverX wrote:True Adamance wrote:Black SlaverX wrote:ISKIES are NOT a balancing factor. For proof, see titans and supercarriers.
So why do tanks require no teamwork at all, but to take the out requires tremendous teamwork? ISKIES are a balancing factor, they guys who bring 30 Battleships should always beat the guys who bring 6 cruisers..... No, that is a teamwork advantage, those 30 Battleships cost way more than the couple bombers it takes to pop them all. CCP has always maintained that isk is not a balancing factor.
then why was the isk cost of tanking reduced by so much? Isk is a balancing factor, deal with it.
If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
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Justicar Karnellia
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement
Caldari State
237
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Posted - 2013.12.13 06:19:00 -
[27] - Quote
Two arguments we end up reading constantly are "Tanks are expensive, so should be hard to take down" and "tanks should require teamwork to take down". First of all, ISK is never a factor - a proto suit can be killed by infantry and tanks, and they can be horrendously expensive too. Are they indestructible - far from it.
Now the "teamwork" argument. There are so many things wrong with this argument, but I already made a previous thread about turning it into a zero-sum game. AV is ineffective now - and I don't mean the guy just carrying AV grenades. I mean a dedicated fit, who's only role and only purpose is to destroy vehicles - it has no anti-infantry capacity at all. That role is now ineffective against the class it was designed to counter. What people have realised is that the tank is the best counter to another tank, which is a problem - if your tank can wipe out infantry AND other thanks, then it's the ideal choice, every time. So as predicted you now try to pull out as many tanks as you can, as quickly as you can. I saw my first 7 tank deployment yesterday - only 2 nights after the patch. People are spamming tanks. They are immune to infantry, and only countered by other tanks, and they know this. I don't think this was intended, but I think once CCP fix this ridiculous speed they have, things might start to change - until then just bring out your tank - it's a no brainer. |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1480
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 06:26:00 -
[28] - Quote
Galvan Nized wrote:The Attorney General wrote:You can solo a tank, it just takes smarts, and patience.
When you develop them, tanks will fall.
Until then, practice. Show us a vid of how you kill tanks...not using another tank. Not whining, just want to see all these "brilliant" strategies. It's something in the game that you cannot even deter a charging tank. They throw on hardeners, plow in, lay waste to what they can and then zoom off. Nothing can alpha enough damage to kill them. SOMETHING should hurt through hardeners. Not saying it needs to be AV in the traditional sense but right now tanks pay too little attention to surroundings. I vote for Proxies because Lord knows those need some help.
Why are all of you dedicated infantry so angry that now the best way to take out a tank is with another tank?
Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
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Crimson Cerberes
Hammer Of Light
Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance
126
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Posted - 2013.12.13 06:42:00 -
[29] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Galvan Nized wrote:The Attorney General wrote:You can solo a tank, it just takes smarts, and patience.
When you develop them, tanks will fall.
Until then, practice. Show us a vid of how you kill tanks...not using another tank. Not whining, just want to see all these "brilliant" strategies. It's something in the game that you cannot even deter a charging tank. They throw on hardeners, plow in, lay waste to what they can and then zoom off. Nothing can alpha enough damage to kill them. SOMETHING should hurt through hardeners. Not saying it needs to be AV in the traditional sense but right now tanks pay too little attention to surroundings. I vote for Proxies because Lord knows those need some help. Why are all of you dedicated infantry so angry that now the best way to take out a tank is with another tank?
Ok, even though this has been covered to death, i will go over it again.
Because there is no viable counter for infantry to deploy against tanks, and since tanks are IMMUNE to normal infantry, this means in ALL scenarios a tank is the best tool for the job.
Need to kill a tank? Use a tank, or maybe, just maybe your entire squad of AV will take it out.
Need to kill infantry? Use a tank.
Need to kill dropships? Use a tank.
Need to kill infantry in an enclosed area? Use a missile tank to bottle them up, they are trapped and dying from splash damage.
Need to clear an objective? Use a tank.
Need to get across the field in an instant? Use a tank.
Need to soak up some damage? LOL tanks are immune to over half of the weapons in the game!
See the problem?
CCP builds games around teamwork, tanks OWN and require no teamwork, but require teamwork to kill. |
Flix Keptick
Red Star.
EoN.
1573
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 06:44:00 -
[30] - Quote
WP for damaging vehicles with AV weapons: BOOM, PROBLEM SOLVED (more Info in my signature)
Making AV an actual role
GÿåTank DriverGÿå
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Jarod Garamonde Jr
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
5
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Posted - 2013.12.13 06:46:00 -
[31] - Quote
I can see that I will need to bring this to the DUST forums, as well.... for those of you who know me, on EVE......
*headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk*
*headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk*
*headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk*
*headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk*
*headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk*
That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...
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The Attorney General
1646
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Posted - 2013.12.13 07:41:00 -
[32] - Quote
Crimson Cerberes wrote:
Ok, even though this has been covered to death, i will go over it again.
Because there is no viable counter for infantry to deploy against tanks, and since tanks are IMMUNE to normal infantry, this means in ALL scenarios a tank is the best tool for the job.
No viable counter?
So there is no FG, no swarms, no AV grenades, no flux grenades, no PLC.
No dropship or LAV either.
There are a bunch of viable counters, and a couple not so viable.
Then there is the best option, which is another tank.
I have yet to see a reasonable argument for why infantry based AV has to be the BEST option for taking out vehicles. I doubt I will ever hear one, but oh am I hoping that you will be the one to provide it.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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Crimson Cerberes
Hammer Of Light
Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance
126
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Posted - 2013.12.13 07:47:00 -
[33] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:Crimson Cerberes wrote:
Ok, even though this has been covered to death, i will go over it again.
Because there is no viable counter for infantry to deploy against tanks, and since tanks are IMMUNE to normal infantry, this means in ALL scenarios a tank is the best tool for the job.
No viable counter? So there is no FG, no swarms, no AV grenades, no flux grenades, no PLC. No dropship or LAV either. There are a bunch of viable counters, and a couple not so viable. Then there is the best option, which is another tank. I have yet to see a reasonable argument for why infantry based AV has to be the BEST option for taking out vehicles. I doubt I will ever hear one, but oh am I hoping that you will be the one to provide it.
Everything in this game should have a counter. Thats how you get varied gameplay.
Now any 5 year old would correctly answer this.... but if the only counter to something is itself, does it have a counter?
Hint: no
So what is the counter to vehicles? Oh right, more vehicles.
You know what... nevermind. Have fun playing World of Tanks.
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The Attorney General
1647
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Posted - 2013.12.13 07:50:00 -
[34] - Quote
Crimson Cerberes wrote:
Everything in this game should have a counter. Thats how you get varied gameplay.
Now any 5 year old would correctly answer this.... but if the only counter to something is itself, does it have a counter?
Hint: no
So what is the counter to vehicles? Oh right, more vehicles.
You know what... nevermind. Have fun playing World of Tanks.
I gave you a list of counters and you reply that there are no counters.
You sir, have no sense.
I play World of Tanks, it is a great game. Thanks for being concerned about my gaming habits.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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Vitharr Foebane
Blood Money Mercenaries
372
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Posted - 2013.12.13 08:08:00 -
[35] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:Crimson Cerberes wrote:
Everything in this game should have a counter. Thats how you get varied gameplay.
Now any 5 year old would correctly answer this.... but if the only counter to something is itself, does it have a counter?
Hint: no
So what is the counter to vehicles? Oh right, more vehicles.
You know what... nevermind. Have fun playing World of Tanks.
I gave you a list of counters and you reply that there are no counters. You sir, have no sense. I play World of Tanks, it is a great game. Thanks for being concerned about my gaming habits.
They WOULD be counters if it weren't for the fact that the "wave of opportunity" to counter a tanks is so tiny due to the fact that tanks are fast as **** right now. The problem with AV is that it's an all or nothing deal. I'm doing between 50-60 thousand damage a game with AV but I get nothing for my efforts because no kill no WP. If they brought back WP for damage it would ease things abit. Since you play WOT what would your thoughts be on module damage?
PS What tiers are you at? Personally, I rock an OBJ 704 and a Bat Chat 155 58 
TBA IS NOT A NAME!
At least give the heavy laser a name so we know you MIGHT be working on it.
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
336
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Posted - 2013.12.13 10:11:00 -
[36] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:You can solo a tank, it just takes smarts, and patience.
When you develop them, tanks will fall.
Until then, practice.
The only solid way to solo a tank right now is with a suicide LAV and this won't work in FW as this will most probably get you banned.
Other than that evry tank that went down was a combined effort of multiple (proto) Swarms, forges and RE's and stupid redberries that let this amount of AV take care of that tank uncontestet.
Other than that I have only seen tanks destroying tanks. |
Omareth Nasadra
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
167
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 10:24:00 -
[37] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Black SlaverX wrote:ISKIES are NOT a balancing factor. For proof, see titans and supercarriers.
So why do tanks require no teamwork at all, but to take the out requires tremendous teamwork? ISKIES are a balancing factor, they guys who bring 30 Battleships should always beat the guys who bring 6 cruisers.....
isk means nothing, it's all about tactics, i once took out a fleet of 89 zealot armor HAC with my alt in a devoter and 3 smartbomb typhoon fitted with appropriate resist that greet them on the edge of the bubbles, theres always a way to win fights , hey we lost 2 BS and most of the loot, but laugh our ass of and received priceless hatemails
Minmatar, In rust we trust!!!
Omareth Nasadra/Erynyes
|
4447
Resolution XIII
935
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 10:42:00 -
[38] - Quote
There's no reward in AVing.
Troll, For lifeGǪ But maybe a dragon, uh a bigger dragon.
|
NOAMIzzzzz
Pradox One
Proficiency V.
70
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 10:42:00 -
[39] - Quote
Tank514.jpg |
The Attorney General
1663
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 10:51:00 -
[40] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:They WOULD be counters if it weren't for the fact that the "wave of opportunity" to counter a tanks is so tiny due to the fact that tanks are fast as **** right now. The problem with AV is that it's an all or nothing deal. I'm doing between 50-60 thousand damage a game with AV but I get nothing for my efforts because no kill no WP. If they brought back WP for damage it would ease things abit. Since you play WOT what would your thoughts be on module damage? PS What tiers are you at? Personally, I rock an OBJ 704 and a Bat Chat 155 58
That depends on fit. Someone who fits their tank just for fighting infantry and then running will be good at that, but absolutely horrible at fighting a tank.
Similarly, you never see the anti tank tanker, because he doesn't have weapons that are effective against you.
I am not saying that things are fine, but stating that all AV is invalid is an overreach in my opinion. Swarms will need some adjusting, the PLC needs a buff, and the forge needs more time to see where it is at. Grenades are fine toned down as they are, because nuclear baseballs are bad for gameplay.
I think more regular AV players need to get themselves an LAV with a Nitrous. You won't be too worried about speeding tanks escaping. Then you will have entered into the anti vehicle tankers wheelhouse, and you will see what the anti infantry tankers have to deal with. It is not pretty. My Gunny can one shot most LAV's provided I get both damage mods activated. So you better be aware of your surroundings before you start driving around all carefree.
CCP did make a post saying they are checking to see if WP for vehicle damage can be hot fixed in, if not they are trying to get it in for 1.8. So at least you guys will get points for driving tanks off, instead of being forced to chase them down.
I run German tanks in WoT. I try to stick to tanks that actually had a combat record, so my current favs are my Ferdinand and my Tiger II. 30k XP away from the Jagdtiger and E-75 though. Got two three skill crews ready to go. I won't go tier X on the German tree except for the Leopard. Was playing with it on the test server, and it may be soft, but damn it moves and that gun! Oh lord what a gun on that tank.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
|
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Avallo Kantor
Scions of Athra
249
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 10:52:00 -
[41] - Quote
If Anti-Tank Tanks were ineffective against Infantry, or it was made nearly impossible to shoot them then you'd have more of an argument of having tanks counter tanks, because bringing an AV tank means that it would be largely useless against infantry (making it easy to be taken out by AV) but would be able to counter Anti Infantry tanks (who's guns become similarly ineffective against other vehicles)
These Anti Infantry vehicles would be easily able to engage most infantry (and thus infantry AV) but would be vulnerable to AV tanks.
If that was the case, then yes, Tanking would be more of a choice of which to bring in, (or which to fit for)
As it stands now Tanks are anti tank, infantry, installation, and AV. The only they can't do is cap. |
HowDidThatTaste
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4179
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 11:07:00 -
[42] - Quote
Avallo Kantor wrote:If Anti-Tank Tanks were ineffective against Infantry, or it was made nearly impossible to shoot them then you'd have more of an argument of having tanks counter tanks, because bringing an AV tank means that it would be largely useless against infantry (making it easy to be taken out by AV) but would be able to counter Anti Infantry tanks (who's guns become similarly ineffective against other vehicles)
These Anti Infantry vehicles would be easily able to engage most infantry (and thus infantry AV) but would be vulnerable to AV tanks.
If that was the case, then yes, Tanking would be more of a choice of which to bring in, (or which to fit for)
As it stands now Tanks are anti tank, infantry, installation, and AV. The only they can't do is cap.
This is interesting. T take it a two further make the tanks that are effective against infantry ineffective against other tanks.
Similar to infantry that want use AV.
Then a tank has to decide if he wants to AV all match or hunt infantry all match. Take away the recall function and then we may be on to something. |
The Attorney General
1663
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 11:11:00 -
[43] - Quote
HowDidThatTaste wrote:
This is interesting. T take it a two further make the tanks that are effective against infantry ineffective against other tanks.
Similar to infantry that want use AV.
Then a tank has to decide if he wants to AV all match or hunt infantry all match. Take away the recall function and then we may be on to something.
Tankers already do this. That is why you see so many tank pairs now. One for AV one for AI.
Running a blaster and expecting to go toe to toe with a AT tank is not going to turn out well. Equally, taking a railgun into a city socket and trying to mop up infantry will not serve you very well.
Why take away recall? So we can be stuck in one tank until someone destroys it? To what end? To make AV players feel good?
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
HowDidThatTaste
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4179
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 11:20:00 -
[44] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:HowDidThatTaste wrote:
This is interesting. T take it a two further make the tanks that are effective against infantry ineffective against other tanks.
Similar to infantry that want use AV.
Then a tank has to decide if he wants to AV all match or hunt infantry all match. Take away the recall function and then we may be on to something.
Tankers already do this. That is why you see so many tank pairs now. One for AV one for AI. Running a blaster and expecting to go toe to toe with a AT tank is not going to turn out well. Equally, taking a railgun into a city socket and trying to mop up infantry will not serve you very well. Why take away recall? So we can be stuck in one tank until someone destroys it? To what end? To make AV players feel good?
I'm not even sure why tanks get a free recall why shouldnt you have to go to a supply depot like the rest of us? And an instant recall with no real invunlreabilty. Come on you can't see how cheap a tactict that is? An av guy does his job to the point you don't think you can recover so you run behind cover hop out and recall it? Really? Its a huge safety net for tanks that they dont need.
Its kinda like getting beat while playing kickball and you decide since your getting beat you are just gonna take your kickball and go home so now no one can play. |
The Attorney General
1663
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 11:27:00 -
[45] - Quote
HowDidThatTaste wrote:
I'm not even sure why tanks get a free recall why shouldnt you have to go to a supply depot like the rest of us? And an instant recall with no real invunlreabilty. Come on you can't see how cheap a tactict that is? An av guy does his job to the point you don't think you can recover so you run behind cover hop out and recall it? Really? Its a huge safety net for tanks that they dont need.
Its kinda like getting beat while playing kickball and you decide since your getting beat you are just gonna take your kickball and go home so now no one can play.
I thought you meant removing recall completely. I don't recall in combat out of principle, but I can see how that would get people upset. Nothing worse than putting the work in to watch your target dematerialize in front of you.
I have no problem with a timed recall where the vehicle can get popped, like an RDV pickup, or a supply depot swap out. I always wondered why the vehicle option was even there in the supply menu, but it could be made to work.
However, I also think I should be able to scuttle my tank and deny you the WP. If I can't recall it or save it, you best believe I am not giving you the WP for it if I can help it.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
HowDidThatTaste
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4179
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 11:31:00 -
[46] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:HowDidThatTaste wrote:
I'm not even sure why tanks get a free recall why shouldnt you have to go to a supply depot like the rest of us? And an instant recall with no real invunlreabilty. Come on you can't see how cheap a tactict that is? An av guy does his job to the point you don't think you can recover so you run behind cover hop out and recall it? Really? Its a huge safety net for tanks that they dont need.
Its kinda like getting beat while playing kickball and you decide since your getting beat you are just gonna take your kickball and go home so now no one can play.
I thought you meant removing recall completely. I don't recall in combat out of principle, but I can see how that would get people upset. Nothing worse than putting the work in to watch your target dematerialize in front of you. I have no problem with a timed recall where the vehicle can get popped, like an RDV pickup, or a supply depot swap out. I always wondered why the vehicle option was even there in the supply menu, but it could be made to work. However, I also think I should be able to scuttle my tank and deny you the WP. If I can't recall it or save it, you best believe I am not giving you the WP for it if I can help it.
Scuttle away that should be possible as long as the damn thing goes ca-blooey I don't care. |
The Attorney General
1664
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 11:39:00 -
[47] - Quote
HowDidThatTaste wrote:
Scuttle away that should be possible as long as the damn thing goes ca-blooey I don't care.
All the infantry in the world joined hands and sung together in a spirit of harmony and peace while all the tanks burn.
Merry Christmas!
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
Reign Omega
BurgezzE.T.F
Public Disorder.
59
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 11:39:00 -
[48] - Quote
Skipped right to the end of this discussion as it is the 1000th thread I have seen on this subject since 1.7. Just want to make a small point in favor of the anti-tank argument (From a dedicated AVer and Part time tanker). One thing people fail to acknowledge with the "Just wait until..." debate is this, the match keeps going while you run around with your useless AV out for 30 seconds or 45 seconds depending on what sort of tank it is, 2X that if they run dual hardeners. Meanwhile you're getting shot, stabbed, blow up, herded away from objectives or hiding...depending on however many of the team is on AV, thats a serious dent in manpower for a few minutes, not to mention tanks running off and coming back when they're cooled down again. It really does affect the flow of the match, which I understand is intentional, after all it is a tank, but the volume and ridiculousness of a handful of even MLT tanks on the field with no AV is borderline absurd. Nascar drivers driving daewoo hatchbacks, hogging up the roadway for the majority of the match in so many words. Some of the newer map and socket configs have decent buildings to just....hide in to avoid getting shot, but some maps are just tank sausage fests waiting to happen. I am enjoying my tanker however entirely in jest, I went 30-0 today and felt like I was back in Chromosome. And I will be the first to say how awful I am behind the wheel.... |
Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
376
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 11:43:00 -
[49] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Galvan Nized wrote:The Attorney General wrote:You can solo a tank, it just takes smarts, and patience.
When you develop them, tanks will fall.
Until then, practice. Show us a vid of how you kill tanks...not using another tank. Not whining, just want to see all these "brilliant" strategies. It's something in the game that you cannot even deter a charging tank. They throw on hardeners, plow in, lay waste to what they can and then zoom off. Nothing can alpha enough damage to kill them. SOMETHING should hurt through hardeners. Not saying it needs to be AV in the traditional sense but right now tanks pay too little attention to surroundings. I vote for Proxies because Lord knows those need some help. Why are all of you dedicated infantry so angry that now the best way to take out a tank is with another tank?
1. I was responding to the guy who said AV can solo tanks with "smarts." Again so me a vid of all these "strategies"...They don't work against a non idiot tank.
2. Because then it becomes who has the most tanks with infantry having little they can do to even DETER a tank.
3. If it stays like this you just killed an entire playstyle...namely AV.
4. Right now the best answer for all situations is...use a tank.
Listen we need to change AV, I get that. Make more defensive AV..like the proxies MUCH stronger. Offensive AV can probably stay where it's at. But add better AV, like webifiers and emp that affects mod length/delay.
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IraqiFriendshipExplosive
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
52
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 11:50:00 -
[50] - Quote
Its very very easy to solo a tank - strap lots of remote explosives to a cheap LAV - Drive straight into enemy tank - BOOM!
Unless the tanker is VERY aware of his surroundings or has a fit specifically to counter RE "Jihad jeeps" (I.E plates and hardeners) he will go down like a sack of poo.
I speak from experience. |
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The Attorney General
1664
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 12:05:00 -
[51] - Quote
Galvan Nized wrote:
1. I was responding to the guy who said AV can solo tanks with "smarts." Again so me a vid of all these "strategies"...They don't work against a non idiot tank.
2. Because then it becomes who has the most tanks with infantry having little they can do to even DETER a tank.
3. If it stays like this you just killed an entire playstyle...namely AV.
4. Right now the best answer for all situations is...use a tank.
Listen we need to change AV, I get that. Make more defensive AV..like the proxies MUCH stronger. Offensive AV can probably stay where it's at. But add better AV, like webifiers and emp that affects mod length/delay.
If you really want, send me a mail, I'll get in touch with you on my heavy alt and give you a primer on how I roll on tankers.
There is too much info to be contained in a forum post.
But please, let us avoid the histrionics, AV is not dead, just weaker than before. We are at the start of the vehicle balance pass, not the end, so lets all give it some time.
Points 2, 3 and 4 I don't agree with, but if you are having a hard time tackling tanks I can see how you would feel that way.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
11244
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 12:07:00 -
[52] - Quote
I solo'ed about.... 24 tanks today?
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Rail and Combat Rifle =// Unlocked
|
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
337
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 12:20:00 -
[53] - Quote
IraqiFriendshipExplosive wrote:Its very very easy to solo a tank - strap lots of remote explosives to a cheap LAV - Drive straight into enemy tank - BOOM!
Unless the tanker is VERY aware of his surroundings or has a fit specifically to counter RE "Jihad jeeps" (I.E plates and hardeners) he will go down like a sack of poo.
I speak from experience.
This gets you instantly banned from FW so not a very smart move in FW |
Phazoid
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
134
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 12:29:00 -
[54] - Quote
what we need is simple, first nerf the lamborghini veneno lvl of spped on the tanks, and then add something like an EMP, a mine or a grenade or a projectile, deals 0 dmg to armor but it stops a tank and its hardeners for a short time, by stop i mean defenseless, not even able to shoot, but for like 4.5 seg, and also deals some dmg to shield, the real problem now is that they are cheap and frankly they can compete on F1, veyron-engine tanks need a nerf
Ib'tuur jatne tuur ash'ad kyr'amur (Today is a good day for someone else to die).
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WeapondigitX V7
The Exemplars
Top Men.
130
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 12:30:00 -
[55] - Quote
tanking usually does require team work now unfortunately.
the good news: the enemy tank be trying to kill your team mates thus distracting him while you get behind him stealthily. REs now stick to walls and vehicles (stationary vehicles and slow moving vehicles (just started moving or slowing down to stop, like 2m per sec speed))
Use a militia scout suit, basic REs, plasma cannon, basic packed AV grenades, basic SMG. Tanks are usually stationary when killing infantry. Get behind the tank, plant 3 REs on it, detonate, throw 1 or 2 AV grenades at it. That should always blow it up.
Disclaimer: only works if you surprise the tanker and he has not activated his hardeners.
Luckily tanks rarely activate hardeners against infantry unless they see AV infantry firing at them.
I have tested this and it has worked many times for me.
only costs me 7000 ISK per suit.
Only large risk is being spotted by other infantry. |
Phazoid
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
134
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 12:31:00 -
[56] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I solo'ed about.... 24 tanks today?
sure, and i have an assault rifle that fires warbarge strikes...
Ib'tuur jatne tuur ash'ad kyr'amur (Today is a good day for someone else to die).
|
Mortedeamor
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
984
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 12:35:00 -
[57] - Quote
Black SlaverX wrote:ISKIES are NOT a balancing factor. For proof, see titans and supercarriers.
So why do tanks require no teamwork at all, but to take the out requires tremendous teamwork?
u can only solo run a tank vs morons |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
337
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 12:37:00 -
[58] - Quote
WeapondigitX V7 wrote:tanking usually does require team work now unfortunately.
the good news: the enemy tank be trying to kill your team mates thus distracting him while you get behind him stealthily. REs now stick to walls and vehicles (stationary vehicles and slow moving vehicles (just started moving or slowing down to stop, like 2m per sec speed))
Use a militia scout suit, basic REs, plasma cannon, basic packed AV grenades, basic SMG. Tanks are usually stationary when killing infantry. Get behind the tank, plant 3 REs on it, detonate, throw 1 or 2 AV grenades at it. That should always blow it up.
Disclaimer: only works if you surprise the tanker and he has not activated his hardeners.
Luckily tanks rarely activate hardeners against infantry unless they see AV infantry firing at them.
I have tested this and it has worked many times for me.
only costs me 7000 ISK per suit.
Only large risk is being spotted by other infantry.
Does not work in FW very well there is a high chance you get banned for destroying your own RE's (yeah its a bug I know). And this solution is more situational |
Jack McReady
DUST University
Ivy League
921
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 12:40:00 -
[59] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:You can solo a tank, it just takes smarts, and patience.
When you develop them, tanks will fall.
Until then, practice.
it takes smarts and patience if you try to solo a scrub tank driver.
a non scrub tank driver is already over the hill shortly before his modules are about to run out even without a nitro booster and with the modules active a tank is practically immune to infantry. it is a fact that the best way to kill a tank is another tank which can be fielded for 100k and a starter fit which is free. in this 100k tank you dont have to care about infantry unlike the suit. a suit to even bother a tank costs alot more and has to take care of infantry and the tank. the risk vs balance is out of proportion here.
Heathen Bastard wrote:
tanks hurt through hardeners. seriously. if it's hardeners are up, nothing short of another tank is going to put that bastard in the ground, so save your ammo and get to a better position to fire on it when it stops glowing.
does not work against tank drivers with skill. a skilled tank drivers runs for cover shortly before modules are down and you know what he does there? he hops out for a second to place an uplink for even more WP. why do you bother to post when you dont even know how to drive a tank properly? |
The Attorney General
1664
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 12:44:00 -
[60] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:
why do you even bother to post when you dont even know how to drive a tank properly?
Says the guy who has never tanked.
If they are so OP even your scrub self could get a 20 and 0 against anyone right?
I'll pay for the tanks and get you into a PC where we can all have a good laugh as you get ripped to pieces.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
|
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Jack McReady
DUST University
Ivy League
921
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 12:48:00 -
[61] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:Jack McReady wrote:
why do you even bother to post when you dont even know how to drive a tank properly?
Says the guy who has never tanked. If they are so OP even your scrub self could get a 20 and 0 against anyone right? I'll pay for the tanks and get you into a PC where we can all have a good laugh as you get ripped to pieces.
why do you post, when all your posts make you look even more stupid?
I used tanks plenty of time after the patch, my fit costs 100k and I lost it only twice because I was not paying attention and crushed into a wall at high speed  I recall it as soon as the other teams brings out a railtank and it is literally printing me money.
and yeah lets play PC aka slideshow514, this is obviously is the answer to everything right? thx for highlighting your lack of credibility. |
Stinker Butt
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
180
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 12:48:00 -
[62] - Quote
Attorney General, I can't believe that you of all people would argue that tanks aren't broken.
The fact that it's literally raining tanks out on the field and every noob with a mil sp is driving them means something is seriously out of whack. The same thing happened with lavs a few builds back, and we all new they were OP. You can argue until you're blue in the face but the fact is something is seriously wrong. If CCP thinks that this is the way it should be, then they will inevitably lose a large amount of their population. |
The Attorney General
1665
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 12:58:00 -
[63] - Quote
Stinker Butt wrote:Attorney General, I can't believe that you of all people would argue that tanks aren't broken.
The fact that it's literally raining tanks out on the field and every noob with a mil sp is driving them means something is seriously out of whack. The same thing happened with lavs a few builds back, and we all new they were OP. You can argue until you're blue in the face but the fact is something is seriously wrong. If CCP thinks that this is the way it should be, then they will inevitably lose a large amount of their population.
Broken? I don't think so.
But I am also aware that this is just the start of the vehicle rebalance, not the end. We are at the start of the process, and either we can try and find solutions that are profitable for the whole community or we can engage in nerf wars.
I have already openly called for:
A PLC Buff
Reducing the charge time on the FG
Beyond that, CCP has already said they are testing reduced speed and reduced boost.
So if we get tanks that are slower, with a less insane boost, how bad are things then?
If we added to that my hoped for buffs to the PLC and FG, is it still broken to you?
What I think is at play is both experimentation with new toys, and also people who had vehicle skills and enforcers getting a fat check. That and all the people crying on the forums. Seriously, if people were not crying up such a storm, you wouldn't see near as many tanks. Not that I mind, most of them are driven by simpletons who couldn't survive a tank fight under optimal conditions.
People freaking out like this is how tanks are going to stay are foolish, and need to calm down.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
Slag Emberforge
Immortal Retribution
267
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 13:01:00 -
[64] - Quote
WeapondigitX V7 wrote:tanking usually does require team work now unfortunately.
the good news: the enemy tank be trying to kill your team mates thus distracting him while you get behind him stealthily. REs now stick to walls and vehicles (stationary vehicles and slow moving vehicles (just started moving or slowing down to stop, like 2m per sec speed))
Use a militia scout suit, basic REs, plasma cannon, basic packed AV grenades, basic SMG. Tanks are usually stationary when killing infantry. Get behind the tank, plant 3 REs on it, detonate, throw 1 or 2 AV grenades at it. That should always blow it up.
Disclaimer: only works if you surprise the tanker and he has not activated his hardeners.
Luckily tanks rarely activate hardeners against infantry unless they see AV infantry firing at them.
I have tested this and it has worked many times for me.
only costs me 7000 ISK per suit.
Only large risk is being spotted by other infantry.
This is not a fix its a cop out, saying hey you can perform the role of AV, provided you didn't spec into forged/swarms beforehand, because that was just a SP sink!
Lolwut. What if I told you ARs, ScRs, subs, SRs were all made ineffective against infantry and you were told, hey if you want to kill infantry you have to spec into the nova knife. But it's ok all your SP is invalid, because there is still a way to kill infantry.
Wut. |
The Attorney General
1665
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 13:04:00 -
[65] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:why do you post, when all your posts make you look even more stupid? I used tanks plenty of time after the patch, my fit costs 100k and I lost it only twice because I was not paying attention and crushed into a wall at high speed I recall it as soon as the other teams brings out a railtank and it is literally printing me money. and yeah lets play PC aka slideshow514, this is obviously is the answer to everything right? thx for highlighting your lack of credibility.
So you roll an infantry only tank, and you ***** out as soon as someone shows up to give you a fight.
LOL you sad little scrub.
You couldn't hack it in PC, and I wouldn't waste the ISK on you.
However, if you can find someone to sponsor your tanks, I will gladly show up and solo you until you learn that it is not as bad for AV as you pretend, just that you suck.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
337
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 13:06:00 -
[66] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:Stinker Butt wrote:Attorney General, I can't believe that you of all people would argue that tanks aren't broken.
The fact that it's literally raining tanks out on the field and every noob with a mil sp is driving them means something is seriously out of whack. The same thing happened with lavs a few builds back, and we all new they were OP. You can argue until you're blue in the face but the fact is something is seriously wrong. If CCP thinks that this is the way it should be, then they will inevitably lose a large amount of their population. Broken? I don't think so. But I am also aware that this is just the start of the vehicle rebalance, not the end. We are at the start of the process, and either we can try and find solutions that are profitable for the whole community or we can engage in nerf wars. I have already openly called for: A PLC Buff Reducing the charge time on the FG Beyond that, CCP has already said they are testing reduced speed and reduced boost. So if we get tanks that are slower, with a less insane boost, how bad are things then? If we added to that my hoped for buffs to the PLC and FG, is it still broken to you? What I think is at play is both experimentation with new toys, and also people who had vehicle skills and enforcers getting a fat check. That and all the people crying on the forums. Seriously, if people were not crying up such a storm, you wouldn't see near as many tanks. Not that I mind, most of them are driven by simpletons who couldn't survive a tank fight under optimal conditions. People freaking out like this is how tanks are going to stay are foolish, and need to calm down.
I totally get your point but that changes nothing about the current situation. IMHO HAVs ARE broken at the moment this may change in a further balancing pass no question. But I guess than we will discuss all this again as HAVs all of a sudden are not easymode any longer.
We could have avoid all of this if CCP would be a bit more cautious with changes instead of making wild experiments with extreme solutions.
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The Attorney General
1665
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 13:08:00 -
[67] - Quote
Slag Emberforge wrote:
This is not a fix its a cop out, saying hey you can perform the role of AV, provided you didn't spec into forged/swarms beforehand, because that was just a SP sink!
Lolwut. What if I told you ARs, ScRs, subs, SRs were all made ineffective against infantry and you were told, hey if you want to kill infantry you have to spec into the nova knife. But it's ok all your SP is invalid, because there is still a way to kill infantry.
Wut.
The forge gun is still effective against tanks.
Swarms less so, but they are still useable.
AV grenades were always scrubby and should never have been as strong as they were.
You want to pop tanks, get a forge. Otherwise, you are a deterrent instead of a killer, unless the enemy tank gets reckless and refuses to back off.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
The Attorney General
1665
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 13:10:00 -
[68] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:
I totally get your point but that changes nothing about the current situation. IMHO HAVs ARE broken at the moment this may change in a further balancing pass no question. But I guess than we will discuss all this again as HAVs all of a sudden are not easymode any longer.
We could have avoid all of this if CCP would be a bit more cautious with changes instead of making wild experiments with extreme solutions.
So then what is broken about tanks?
eHP levels, which went sort of sideways with 1.7?
Turret damage, which got nerfed?
Speed, which is more than likely getting nerfed next month?
Module timings?
What exactly makes tanks broken?
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
Jack McReady
DUST University
Ivy League
921
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 13:11:00 -
[69] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:Jack McReady wrote:why do you post, when all your posts make you look even more stupid? I used tanks plenty of time after the patch, my fit costs 100k and I lost it only twice because I was not paying attention and crushed into a wall at high speed I recall it as soon as the other teams brings out a railtank and it is literally printing me money. and yeah lets play PC aka slideshow514, this is obviously is the answer to everything right? thx for highlighting your lack of credibility. So you roll an infantry only tank, and you ***** out as soon as someone shows up to give you a fight. LOL you sad little scrub. You couldn't hack it in PC, and I wouldn't waste the ISK on you. However, if you can find someone to sponsor your tanks, I will gladly show up and solo you until you learn that it is not as bad for AV as you pretend, just that you suck.
why should I risk my tank against another tank which is the only real counter it. it is like playing rock paper scissor with the difference that rock can only be killed by rock. if you dont understand why this is an issue then dont post, your credibility is already down the toilet. |
The Attorney General
1665
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 13:20:00 -
[70] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:
why should I risk my tank against another tank which is the only real counter it. it is like playing rock paper scissor with the difference that rock can only be killed by rock. if you dont understand why this is an issue then dont post, your credibility is already down the toilet.
I'll bring my proto heavy with a FG.
And wreck you all day long.
See this is where you f'd up.
I do play on the ground, I have a heavy alt, and I wreck tanks on the ground all day like it is going out of style.
You guys are just bad at it.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
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Stinker Butt
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
180
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 13:30:00 -
[71] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:So if we get tanks that are slower, with a less insane boost, how bad are things then?
If we added to that my hoped for buffs to the PLC and FG, is it still broken to you?
Whether you're buffing AV or nerfing tanks, it's relatively the same. I don't know what will work, but the only proof I need is what I can see for myself on the battlefield. Currently it is definitely broken.
As a good tanker, I can see why this current state would be appealing to you. But you are in a minority, and in the end, this is a business for CCP. I personally love all of the QQ threads on the topic. Those of us veterans know that this is how CCP works.
"The squeaky wheel gets the oil" |
The Attorney General
1666
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 13:37:00 -
[72] - Quote
Stinker Butt wrote:The Attorney General wrote:So if we get tanks that are slower, with a less insane boost, how bad are things then?
If we added to that my hoped for buffs to the PLC and FG, is it still broken to you? Whether you're buffing AV or nerfing tanks, it's relatively the same. I don't know what will work, but the only proof I need is what I can see for myself on the battlefield. Currently it is definitely broken. As a good tanker, I can see why this current state would be appealing to you. But you are in a minority, and in the end, this is a business for CCP. I personally love all of the QQ threads on the topic. Those of us veterans know that this is how CCP works. "The squeaky wheel gets the oil"
Of course they will get nerfed. Nothing new. But AV got nerfed along the way, so I can deal with it. Heck I was going around at the start of Uprising saying tanks were not as bad as some people were making them out to be. It took me a month or more before I came around to the whole swarms are OP, AV nades are OP understanding.
Lets break some of these scrubs free from their ISK and see how long they are willing to keep throwing tanks out there. I don't think the current tank crush will hold.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
1898
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 13:49:00 -
[73] - Quote
I use teamwork in my tank
I run with a group and we watch each others back and point out threats |
Slag Emberforge
Immortal Retribution
267
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 13:52:00 -
[74] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:Jack McReady wrote:
why should I risk my tank against another tank which is the only real counter it. it is like playing rock paper scissor with the difference that rock can only be killed by rock. if you dont understand why this is an issue then dont post, your credibility is already down the toilet.
I'll bring my proto heavy with a FG. And wreck you all day long. See this is where you f'd up. I do play on the ground, I have a heavy alt, and I wreck tanks on the ground all day like it is going out of style. You guys are just bad at it.
I run forge myself, of course usually tier 4 is as high as info in pubs, proto gear should not be required for militia tanks, you have to know that.
You said yourself that tank eHp went "sideways" with this update, what that brings us to:
HAVs
Same eHP
Stronger god-mode modules
Faster base speed
Improved accuracy
Cheaper
Less SP for a decent tank
AV
33% damage nerf across the board
Engagement distance change for swarms
Still same price
Which leads us to our current development:
Tanks on cool down are easily Harder to kill than in the previous patch
Tanks off cool down are lolgodmode
Tanks are far harder to destroy and less rewarding to do so.
Proposal; roll back damage/charge time nerf, increase lock on range to 250m just to give them a change at being useful against dropships.
Or
Make tanks actually vulnerable by giving them increased damage taken when hardeners are on cool down, 20-30%
Or being back 1.6 tank speed and just a 10% debuff while on cool down. |
Stinker Butt
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
180
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 13:55:00 -
[75] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:I use teamwork in my tank
I run with a group and we watch each others back and point out threats
We all do that. That may be all you need if you're in a tank. If you're trying to fight one, teamwork requires a little more than "pointing it out." |
Vitharr Foebane
Blood Money Mercenaries
373
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 14:03:00 -
[76] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:Vitharr Foebane wrote:They WOULD be counters if it weren't for the fact that the "wave of opportunity" to counter a tanks is so tiny due to the fact that tanks are fast as **** right now. The problem with AV is that it's an all or nothing deal. I'm doing between 50-60 thousand damage a game with AV but I get nothing for my efforts because no kill no WP. If they brought back WP for damage it would ease things abit. Since you play WOT what would your thoughts be on module damage? PS What tiers are you at? Personally, I rock an OBJ 704 and a Bat Chat 155 58 That depends on fit. Someone who fits their tank just for fighting infantry and then running will be good at that, but absolutely horrible at fighting a tank. Similarly, you never see the anti tank tanker, because he doesn't have weapons that are effective against you. I am not saying that things are fine, but stating that all AV is invalid is an overreach in my opinion. Swarms will need some adjusting, the PLC needs a buff, and the forge needs more time to see where it is at. Grenades are fine toned down as they are, because nuclear baseballs are bad for gameplay. I think more regular AV players need to get themselves an LAV with a Nitrous. You won't be too worried about speeding tanks escaping. Then you will have entered into the anti vehicle tankers wheelhouse, and you will see what the anti infantry tankers have to deal with. It is not pretty. My Gunny can one shot most LAV's provided I get both damage mods activated. So you better be aware of your surroundings before you start driving around all carefree. CCP did make a post saying they are checking to see if WP for vehicle damage can be hot fixed in, if not they are trying to get it in for 1.8. So at least you guys will get points for driving tanks off, instead of being forced to chase them down. I run German tanks in WoT. I try to stick to tanks that actually had a combat record, so my current favs are my Ferdinand and my Tiger II. 30k XP away from the Jagdtiger and E-75 though. Got two three skill crews ready to go. I won't go tier X on the German tree except for the Leopard. Was playing with it on the test server, and it may be soft, but damn it moves and that gun! Oh lord what a gun on that tank.
Jagdtiger is a great td gotta watch your under glaces though BIG weakspot. Plus that's where your engine is which will burst into flames any chance it gets. Leopard does have speed and that gun but the armor is very meh. I like em because I can dump a whole arty clip(4 shells every 75 sec :3) into them and they die sobbing arty tears. (French tier 10 arty FTW) But on a more related note what would you think of module damage, ie if you take a massive shot to the tracks you get immobilized take a shot to the gun and you cant shoot?
TBA IS NOT A NAME!
At least give the heavy laser a name so we know you MIGHT be working on it.
|
The Attorney General
1669
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 14:05:00 -
[77] - Quote
Slag Emberforge wrote:
I run forge myself, of course usually tier 4 is as high as info in pubs, proto gear should not be required for militia tanks, you have to know that.
I run the proto heavy frame for extra armor. I fight tanks in the danger zone, so I need every available HP I can get. Also, if you want to run proto grenades and a not STD sidearm, you need to go proto.
Slag Emberforge wrote:
You said yourself that tank eHp went "sideways" with this update, what that brings us to:
HAVs
Same eHP
Stronger god-mode modules
Faster base speed
Improved accuracy
Cheaper
Less SP for a decent tank
Tank eHP went sideways because I can no longer run plates and reppers and a hardener, so I have to make choices. Also, since the 180 plates got taken away, I can't even stack up as high.
That reduction in HP is compensated for by the increased resistances on shield tanks. Armor tanks have actually lost resists as well as HP. Running dual carapace hardeners would put you close to 50% resist if your skills were up. Now a single hardeners gives you 40% for 1/3 the time.
Accuracy getting better is debatable. The turret may be more accurate, but the hit detection is still spotty, especially on rails.
The speed will be the first thing changed.
Slag Emberforge wrote:
AV
33% damage nerf across the board
Engagement distance change for swarms
Still same price
FG did not get a 33% nerf.
I don't care about swarms, they should be removed from the game. That is how little I care for swarms and their users.
Slag Emberforge wrote:
Which leads us to our current development:
Tanks on cool down are easily Harder to kill than in the previous patch
Tanks off cool down are lolgodmode
Tanks are far harder to destroy and less rewarding to do so.
Proposal; roll back damage/charge time nerf, increase lock on range to 250m just to give them a change at being useful against dropships.
Or
Make tanks actually vulnerable by giving them increased damage taken when hardeners are on cool down, 20-30%
Or being back 1.6 tank speed and just a 10% debuff while on cool down.
Tanks off cooldown go pop very fast. Much faster than a cooldown 1.6 tank. They just carry so much less HP.
Tanks on actives are very difficult to destroy, this is by design.
Tanks are more difficult to destroy, if you don't find it rewarding to go after the hard targets, playing AV is not for you.
Proposal one is basically a return to 1.6, but with softer tanks. Not fair or reasonable at all.
Tanks on cooldown are already butter soft, there is no need to give them an additional penalty. The speed nerf is coming, but probably not until the next patch.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
1898
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 14:10:00 -
[78] - Quote
Stinker Butt wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:I use teamwork in my tank
I run with a group and we watch each others back and point out threats We all do that. That may be all you need if you're in a tank. If you're trying to fight one, teamwork requires a little more than "pointing it out."
Not if the tanker is smart
Smart tankers are hard to take down, we generally know what fits we are running just by looking at stats and then its all about timing/positioning/what hull and turret they use/what fit you think they have on etc |
The Attorney General
1669
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 14:11:00 -
[79] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:
Jagdtiger is a great td gotta watch your under glaces though BIG weakspot. Plus that's where your engine is which will burst into flames any chance it gets. Leopard does have speed and that gun but the armor is very meh. I like em because I can dump a whole arty clip(4 shells every 75 sec :3) into them and they die sobbing arty tears. (French tier 10 arty FTW) But on a more related note what would you think of module damage, ie if you take a massive shot to the tracks you get immobilized take a shot to the gun and you cant shoot?
All my high tier crews have Preventative Maintenance and Safe Stowage trained. You don't get too far past tier 4 of the German tanks without learning to fear the fire.
Thankfully the weak lower glacis is shared across all the German tanks, so protecting it becomes second nature. I know that the tier X guns can just cut right through that 250mm of casement armor, so I might just buy a Jagdtiger 8.8 to warm up with so I only have to face tier 9s for a little while while I get the crew ready for the Jagdtiger.
The armor on the Leopard might as well not be there, but it is a nice change from the counter sniping German meds, which can get a little boring after a days play.
I love the idea of module damage, but I don't see how you could make it balanced in a game where the defense systems are so wildly different. It would require some lore think about what type of system the Caldari tanks actually shield with, and how they would react to penetrations.
If something like that were to come into play, I would say that only rails(and forges) should be doing those types of damage. Swarms and AV nades shouldn't pack enough of a punch to detrack something that big.
If you could track tanks though, that would really put a boot in the whole, but they get away argument. Just bring a forge and track the sucker, then move in and finish him off.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
4447
Resolution XIII
936
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 14:28:00 -
[80] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I solo'ed about.... 24 tanks today?
Do you want a sticker.
Troll, For lifeGǪ But maybe a dragon, uh a bigger dragon.
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Vitharr Foebane
Blood Money Mercenaries
375
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 14:29:00 -
[81] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:Vitharr Foebane wrote:
Jagdtiger is a great td gotta watch your under glaces though BIG weakspot. Plus that's where your engine is which will burst into flames any chance it gets. Leopard does have speed and that gun but the armor is very meh. I like em because I can dump a whole arty clip(4 shells every 75 sec :3) into them and they die sobbing arty tears. (French tier 10 arty FTW) But on a more related note what would you think of module damage, ie if you take a massive shot to the tracks you get immobilized take a shot to the gun and you cant shoot?
All my high tier crews have Preventative Maintenance and Safe Stowage trained. You don't get too far past tier 4 of the German tanks without learning to fear the fire. Thankfully the weak lower glacis is shared across all the German tanks, so protecting it becomes second nature. I know that the tier X guns can just cut right through that 250mm of casement armor, so I might just buy a Jagdtiger 8.8 to warm up with so I only have to face tier 9s for a little while while I get the crew ready for the Jagdtiger. The armor on the Leopard might as well not be there, but it is a nice change from the counter sniping German meds, which can get a little boring after a days play. I love the idea of module damage, but I don't see how you could make it balanced in a game where the defense systems are so wildly different. It would require some lore think about what type of system the Caldari tanks actually shield with, and how they would react to penetrations. If something like that were to come into play, I would say that only rails(and forges) should be doing those types of damage. Swarms and AV nades shouldn't pack enough of a punch to detrack something that big. If you could track tanks though, that would really put a boot in the whole, but they get away argument. Just bring a forge and track the sucker, then move in and finish him off.
Alternatively, they could make the tracks a weakspot on a tank to promote marksmanship. Not a ridiculously weak spot maybe 110-130ish % As of right now the only weakspots are the bottom of the tanks(lol) and this little port on the back that is the size of a womp rat.
TBA IS NOT A NAME!
At least give the heavy laser a name so we know you MIGHT be working on it.
|
Stinker Butt
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
181
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 14:32:00 -
[82] - Quote
4447 wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I solo'ed about.... 24 tanks today? Do you want a sticker.
keep in mind that he was driving a tank himself. |
Slag Emberforge
Immortal Retribution
267
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 14:39:00 -
[83] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:Slag Emberforge wrote:
I run forge myself, of course usually tier 4 is as high as info in pubs, proto gear should not be required for militia tanks, you have to know that.
I run the proto heavy frame for extra armor. I fight tanks in the danger zone, so I need every available HP I can get. Also, if you want to run proto grenades and a not STD sidearm, you need to go proto. Slag Emberforge wrote:
You said yourself that tank eHp went "sideways" with this update, what that brings us to:
HAVs
Same eHP
Stronger god-mode modules
Faster base speed
Improved accuracy
Cheaper
Less SP for a decent tank
Tank eHP went sideways because I can no longer run plates and reppers and a hardener, so I have to make choices. Also, since the 180 plates got taken away, I can't even stack up as high. That reduction in HP is compensated for by the increased resistances on shield tanks. Armor tanks have actually lost resists as well as HP. Running dual carapace hardeners would put you close to 50% resist if your skills were up. Now a single hardeners gives you 40% for 1/3 the time. Accuracy getting better is debatable. The turret may be more accurate, but the hit detection is still spotty, especially on rails. The speed will be the first thing changed. Slag Emberforge wrote:
AV
33% damage nerf across the board
Engagement distance change for swarms
Still same price
FG did not get a 33% nerf. I don't care about swarms, they should be removed from the game. That is how little I care for swarms and their users. Slag Emberforge wrote:
Which leads us to our current development:
Tanks on cool down are easily Harder to kill than in the previous patch
Tanks off cool down are lolgodmode
Tanks are far harder to destroy and less rewarding to do so.
Proposal; roll back damage/charge time nerf, increase lock on range to 250m just to give them a change at being useful against dropships.
Or
Make tanks actually vulnerable by giving them increased damage taken when hardeners are on cool down, 20-30%
Or being back 1.6 tank speed and just a 10% debuff while on cool down.
Tanks off cooldown go pop very fast. Much faster than a cooldown 1.6 tank. They just carry so much less HP. Tanks on actives are very difficult to destroy, this is by design. Tanks are more difficult to destroy, if you don't find it rewarding to go after the hard targets, playing AV is not for you. Proposal one is basically a return to 1.6, but with softer tanks. Not fair or reasonable at all. Tanks on cooldown are already butter soft, there is no need to give them an additional penalty. The speed nerf is coming, but probably not until the next patch.
FG did get almost the same drop as others
10% reduction in damage
20% increase in charge time
0.9 damage x 0.833 rate of fire = 0.72 dps
28% damage drop
Not to mention by changing charge time they changed all elements of timing shots when engaging the enemy, and although I have already started to adapt, that extra 3/8 or a second between shots makes a very surprising amount of difference.
I ran FG almost exclusively soloing tanks daily, I can't tell you down to the exact number, but I can tell you they are much harder to pop off cool down then they use to be, and while a part of this is speed, it is not the only part.
To be quite honest I'd be ok with getting my old charge time back on the forge and movement rate on tanks fixed, but this would not fix the current environment for swarms. It doesn't matter if you like them or not, they are here to stay. |
HowDidThatTaste
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4179
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 14:40:00 -
[84] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:Slag Emberforge wrote:
This is not a fix its a cop out, saying hey you can perform the role of AV, provided you didn't spec into forged/swarms beforehand, because that was just a SP sink!
Lolwut. What if I told you ARs, ScRs, subs, SRs were all made ineffective against infantry and you were told, hey if you want to kill infantry you have to spec into the nova knife. But it's ok all your SP is invalid, because there is still a way to kill infantry.
Wut.
The forge gun is still effective against tanks. Swarms less so, but they are still useable. AV grenades were always scrubby and should never have been as strong as they were. You want to pop tanks, get a forge. Otherwise, you are a deterrent instead of a killer, unless the enemy tank gets reckless and refuses to back off.
As a life long forger give the thing to a faster suit the heavy suit is not suited for it anymore. I can't tell you how many time I take a shot at a tank and he can drive across the Mao and nearly run me over before I get my third shot out. I understand the speed may be reduce on tanks and this will help but the forge would be of much more use on a mobile suit. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
1898
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 14:40:00 -
[85] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:The Attorney General wrote:Vitharr Foebane wrote:
Jagdtiger is a great td gotta watch your under glaces though BIG weakspot. Plus that's where your engine is which will burst into flames any chance it gets. Leopard does have speed and that gun but the armor is very meh. I like em because I can dump a whole arty clip(4 shells every 75 sec :3) into them and they die sobbing arty tears. (French tier 10 arty FTW) But on a more related note what would you think of module damage, ie if you take a massive shot to the tracks you get immobilized take a shot to the gun and you cant shoot?
All my high tier crews have Preventative Maintenance and Safe Stowage trained. You don't get too far past tier 4 of the German tanks without learning to fear the fire. Thankfully the weak lower glacis is shared across all the German tanks, so protecting it becomes second nature. I know that the tier X guns can just cut right through that 250mm of casement armor, so I might just buy a Jagdtiger 8.8 to warm up with so I only have to face tier 9s for a little while while I get the crew ready for the Jagdtiger. The armor on the Leopard might as well not be there, but it is a nice change from the counter sniping German meds, which can get a little boring after a days play. I love the idea of module damage, but I don't see how you could make it balanced in a game where the defense systems are so wildly different. It would require some lore think about what type of system the Caldari tanks actually shield with, and how they would react to penetrations. If something like that were to come into play, I would say that only rails(and forges) should be doing those types of damage. Swarms and AV nades shouldn't pack enough of a punch to detrack something that big. If you could track tanks though, that would really put a boot in the whole, but they get away argument. Just bring a forge and track the sucker, then move in and finish him off. Alternatively, they could make the tracks a weakspot on a tank to promote marksmanship. Not a ridiculously weak spot maybe 110-130ish % As of right now the only weakspots are the bottom of the tanks(lol) and this little port on the back that is the size of a womp rat.
Cant do it
How do you repair the tracks? how do you damage them to begin with? do they have ther own HP values? are the HP values seperate from the main HP pool? or are they in the main HP pool? how long it take to repair them? do the tracks have a hitbox? could you permanetly detrack em? |
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