DUST Search - Why can tanks solo, but not AV?

Jason Pearson wrote:

Galvan Nized wrote:

Heathen Bastard wrote:

Galvan Nized wrote:

The Attorney General wrote:

You can solo a tank, it just takes smarts, and patience.

When you develop them, tanks will fall.

Until then, practice.

Show us a vid of how you kill tanks...not using another tank. Not whining, just want to see all these "brilliant" strategies.

It's something in the game that you cannot even deter a charging tank. They throw on hardeners, plow in, lay waste to what they can and then zoom off. Nothing can alpha enough damage to kill them.

SOMETHING should hurt through hardeners. Not saying it needs to be AV in the traditional sense but right now tanks pay too little attention to surroundings. I vote for Proxies because Lord knows those need some help.

tanks hurt through hardeners. seriously. if it's hardeners are up, nothing short of another tank is going to put that bastard in the ground, so save your ammo and get to a better position to fire on it when it stops glowing.

This is an issue...Some kind of AV should wound tanks with hardeners. Meaning not only do ANY damage but do a LEGIT amount. It doesn't have to be FGs, Swarms, or PlCs. But it would be GREAT for proxies as these are a defensive tool and not offensive. Again these suck so would be a great help.

Proxys need a buff sure, but make it strong enough to kill a HAV with actives on and you allow it one shot a LAV no matter what, along with any other vehicles coming out, it also doesn't help with what happens when they bring more air vehicles out.

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Black SlaverX Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2013.12.13 03:41:00 - [1] - Quote ISKIES are NOT a balancing factor. For proof, see titans and supercarriers. So why do tanks require no teamwork at all, but to take the out requires tremendous teamwork?
The Attorney General 1637	Posted - 2013.12.13 03:44:00 - [2] - Quote You can solo a tank, it just takes smarts, and patience. When you develop them, tanks will fall. Until then, practice. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR F.T.U. IMMORTAL REGIME 821	Posted - 2013.12.13 03:46:00 - [3] - Quote good question. but in actuality, isk IS a balancing factor. if the tanks like now, have to be teamed up on with proto AV and they cost less than my proto scout suit, then that's a problem. now if said tank cost 3,000,000 isk, then requiring 3 proto forges to take them down sounds more reasonable, right? Tell me, how exactly DOES a biscuit gain Valor?
KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3082	Posted - 2013.12.13 03:46:00 - [4] - Quote Black SlaverX wrote: ISKIES are NOT a balancing factor. For proof, see titans and supercarriers. So why do tanks require no teamwork at all, but to take the out requires tremendous teamwork? Because tank514 SCR User Since release. Charge shot / Aim to the head / Listen to QQ
KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3082	Posted - 2013.12.13 03:47:00 - [5] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: You can solo a tank with AV, it just takes smarts, and patience unlike driving a tank in 1.7 . fixed* SCR User Since release. Charge shot / Aim to the head / Listen to QQ
The Attorney General 1637	Posted - 2013.12.13 03:48:00 - [6] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: The Attorney General wrote: You can solo a tank with AV, it just takes smarts, and patience unlike driving a tank in 1.7 . fixed* Really, I was trying to be nice and engage in dicussion. This is how you respond. That is what happens when you try and show some pity to a garbage AV'er. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
AetherFall Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2013.12.13 03:58:00 - [7] - Quote TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR wrote: good question. but in actuality, isk IS a balancing factor. if the tanks like now, have to be teamed up on with proto AV and they cost less than my proto scout suit, then that's a problem. now if said tank cost 3,000,000 isk, then requiring 3 proto forges to take them down sounds more reasonable, right? Yup. Another pointing factor is that tanks should be fairly rare. My last match of the night had four enemy tanks and three friendlies. Seven tanks in a single match is ridiculous. I love CCP.... BUT big time fail here guys. Tanks cannot be this cheap. I'm fine with power level.
Cosgar ParagonX 8608	Posted - 2013.12.13 04:04:00 - [8] - Quote AetherFall wrote: TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR wrote: good question. but in actuality, isk IS a balancing factor. if the tanks like now, have to be teamed up on with proto AV and they cost less than my proto scout suit, then that's a problem. now if said tank cost 3,000,000 isk, then requiring 3 proto forges to take them down sounds more reasonable, right? Yup. Another pointing factor is that tanks should be fairly rare. My last match of the night had four enemy tanks and three friendlies. Seven tanks in a single match is ridiculous. I love CCP.... BUT big time fail here guys. Tanks cannot be this cheap. I'm fine with power level. Given that they're squishier than they've ever been thus far, the price is just about right. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 3087	Posted - 2013.12.13 04:07:00 - [9] - Quote Cosgar wrote: AetherFall wrote: TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR wrote: good question. but in actuality, isk IS a balancing factor. if the tanks like now, have to be teamed up on with proto AV and they cost less than my proto scout suit, then that's a problem. now if said tank cost 3,000,000 isk, then requiring 3 proto forges to take them down sounds more reasonable, right? Yup. Another pointing factor is that tanks should be fairly rare. My last match of the night had four enemy tanks and three friendlies. Seven tanks in a single match is ridiculous. I love CCP.... BUT big time fail here guys. Tanks cannot be this cheap. I'm fine with power level. Given that they're squishier than they've ever been thus far, the price is just about right. Indeed, the reason the price doesn't come into play as much as it should is the new bug tanks have acquired, making taking them out a pain. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 3 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 904	Posted - 2013.12.13 04:09:00 - [10] - Quote True, the combination of tanks being hard and their extreme speed makes it bad combination for being able to be solo operated. If they were slow their added vulnerability would justify the solo operation. Feeling the scanner is too simple and off balance? The fix:

Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 372	Posted - 2013.12.13 04:11:00 - [11] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: You can solo a tank, it just takes smarts, and patience. When you develop them, tanks will fall. Until then, practice. Show us a vid of how you kill tanks...not using another tank. Not whining, just want to see all these "brilliant" strategies. It's something in the game that you cannot even deter a charging tank. They throw on hardeners, plow in, lay waste to what they can and then zoom off. Nothing can alpha enough damage to kill them. SOMETHING should hurt through hardeners. Not saying it needs to be AV in the traditional sense but right now tanks pay too little attention to surroundings. I vote for Proxies because Lord knows those need some help.
Cosgar ParagonX 8609	Posted - 2013.12.13 04:14:00 - [12] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Cosgar wrote: AetherFall wrote: TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR wrote: good question. but in actuality, isk IS a balancing factor. if the tanks like now, have to be teamed up on with proto AV and they cost less than my proto scout suit, then that's a problem. now if said tank cost 3,000,000 isk, then requiring 3 proto forges to take them down sounds more reasonable, right? Yup. Another pointing factor is that tanks should be fairly rare. My last match of the night had four enemy tanks and three friendlies. Seven tanks in a single match is ridiculous. I love CCP.... BUT big time fail here guys. Tanks cannot be this cheap. I'm fine with power level. Given that they're squishier than they've ever been thus far, the price is just about right. Indeed, the reason the price doesn't come into play as much as it should is the new bug tanks have acquired, making taking them out a pain. Given CCP's track record for balancing for stuff still on the drawing board, we might be getting stasis webs pretty soon. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Heathen Bastard The Bastard Brigade 740	Posted - 2013.12.13 04:14:00 - [13] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: The Attorney General wrote: You can solo a tank, it just takes smarts, and patience. When you develop them, tanks will fall. Until then, practice. Show us a vid of how you kill tanks...not using another tank. Not whining, just want to see all these "brilliant" strategies. It's something in the game that you cannot even deter a charging tank. They throw on hardeners, plow in, lay waste to what they can and then zoom off. Nothing can alpha enough damage to kill them. SOMETHING should hurt through hardeners. Not saying it needs to be AV in the traditional sense but right now tanks pay too little attention to surroundings. I vote for Proxies because Lord knows those need some help. tanks hurt through hardeners. seriously. if it's hardeners are up, nothing short of another tank is going to put that bastard in the ground, so save your ammo and get to a better position to fire on it when it stops glowing. If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3083	Posted - 2013.12.13 04:16:00 - [14] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: The Attorney General wrote: You can solo a tank with AV, it just takes smarts, and patience unlike driving a tank in 1.7 . fixed* Really, I was trying to be nice and engage in dicussion. This is how you respond. That is what happens when you try and show some pity to a garbage AV'er. You were not showing pity. You were saying : ''you need skill and strategy to be good at AV'' And im being more specific: ''but we tankers dont'' SCR User Since release. Charge shot / Aim to the head / Listen to QQ
loumanchew Ametat Security Amarr Empire 152	Posted - 2013.12.13 04:17:00 - [15] - Quote Because my vehicule fit costs 5 times more than your AVer fit. If you want to kill a dropship without fail, just get a railgun tank, they are the FOTM. Don't want to spend the ISK? Then stfu.
Jason Pearson 3313	Posted - 2013.12.13 04:18:00 - [16] - Quote Because, we can't balance AV and tanks on current **** in game, we need more. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128228&find=unread King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire Laugh at the idiots crying about four BPOs being removed erryday, lul
Ardenis Sthresiut WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 13	Posted - 2013.12.13 04:18:00 - [17] - Quote http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5lIWti4VUw
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 372	Posted - 2013.12.13 04:29:00 - [18] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: The Attorney General wrote: You can solo a tank, it just takes smarts, and patience. When you develop them, tanks will fall. Until then, practice. Show us a vid of how you kill tanks...not using another tank. Not whining, just want to see all these "brilliant" strategies. It's something in the game that you cannot even deter a charging tank. They throw on hardeners, plow in, lay waste to what they can and then zoom off. Nothing can alpha enough damage to kill them. SOMETHING should hurt through hardeners. Not saying it needs to be AV in the traditional sense but right now tanks pay too little attention to surroundings. I vote for Proxies because Lord knows those need some help. tanks hurt through hardeners. seriously. if it's hardeners are up, nothing short of another tank is going to put that bastard in the ground, so save your ammo and get to a better position to fire on it when it stops glowing. This is an issue...Some kind of AV should wound tanks with hardeners. Meaning not only do ANY damage but do a LEGIT amount. It doesn't have to be FGs, Swarms, or PlCs. But it would be GREAT for proxies as these are a defensive tool and not offensive. Again these suck so would be a great help. Forums are lagging for me so please ignore any double posts.
Jason Pearson 3317	Posted - 2013.12.13 04:32:00 - [19] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: The Attorney General wrote: You can solo a tank, it just takes smarts, and patience. When you develop them, tanks will fall. Until then, practice. Show us a vid of how you kill tanks...not using another tank. Not whining, just want to see all these "brilliant" strategies. It's something in the game that you cannot even deter a charging tank. They throw on hardeners, plow in, lay waste to what they can and then zoom off. Nothing can alpha enough damage to kill them. SOMETHING should hurt through hardeners. Not saying it needs to be AV in the traditional sense but right now tanks pay too little attention to surroundings. I vote for Proxies because Lord knows those need some help. tanks hurt through hardeners. seriously. if it's hardeners are up, nothing short of another tank is going to put that bastard in the ground, so save your ammo and get to a better position to fire on it when it stops glowing. This is an issue...Some kind of AV should wound tanks with hardeners. Meaning not only do ANY damage but do a LEGIT amount. It doesn't have to be FGs, Swarms, or PlCs. But it would be GREAT for proxies as these are a defensive tool and not offensive. Again these suck so would be a great help. Proxys need a buff sure, but make it strong enough to kill a HAV with actives on and you allow it one shot a LAV no matter what, along with any other vehicles coming out, it also doesn't help with what happens when they bring more air vehicles out. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire Laugh at the idiots crying about four BPOs being removed erryday, lul
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 372	Posted - 2013.12.13 04:42:00 - [20] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: The Attorney General wrote: You can solo a tank, it just takes smarts, and patience. When you develop them, tanks will fall. Until then, practice. Show us a vid of how you kill tanks...not using another tank. Not whining, just want to see all these "brilliant" strategies. It's something in the game that you cannot even deter a charging tank. They throw on hardeners, plow in, lay waste to what they can and then zoom off. Nothing can alpha enough damage to kill them. SOMETHING should hurt through hardeners. Not saying it needs to be AV in the traditional sense but right now tanks pay too little attention to surroundings. I vote for Proxies because Lord knows those need some help. tanks hurt through hardeners. seriously. if it's hardeners are up, nothing short of another tank is going to put that bastard in the ground, so save your ammo and get to a better position to fire on it when it stops glowing. This is an issue...Some kind of AV should wound tanks with hardeners. Meaning not only do ANY damage but do a LEGIT amount. It doesn't have to be FGs, Swarms, or PlCs. But it would be GREAT for proxies as these are a defensive tool and not offensive. Again these suck so would be a great help. Proxys need a buff sure, but make it strong enough to kill a HAV with actives on and you allow it one shot a LAV no matter what, along with any other vehicles coming out, it also doesn't help with what happens when they bring more air vehicles out. One shot? Man 1 Proxy MIGHT break 1000 damage if it's on armor. You literally have to stack these to do anything, and by stack I mean 5+. They are defensive, not like they nail your tank or LAV from 300m. Stay off the congested roads and don't be predictable and you'd never see them. With proper infantry support you could easily get rid of a few proximity explosives...just can't zoom around the map solo at all times anymore. This helps to make a hard deterrent to tanks, something that takes TEAMWORK to set up AND overcome.

ballistic surgeon killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 12	Posted - 2013.12.13 05:54:00 - [21] - Quote I say if a tanker turns on its hardener then speed is reduced (it can still get away from most dropsuits, maybe a scout w/ kin cats can keep up with it) and cannot fire its weapon. It should be a defensive mechanism to get away from an enemy to replenish its sheilds/armor. I think someone else mentioned this as well, the hardeners time limit should decrease faster the more damage it takes. Also if enough damage is dealt to a vehicle (lets say 300 hp left) its acceleration/ top speed/ maneuverability decreases. On the other side of the discussion, I am glad that CCP nerfed av items bcuz I was one of those guys killing tanks by myself way too easily (dren dropsuit, bpo swarm launcher and packed av grenades).
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1480	Posted - 2013.12.13 05:55:00 - [22] - Quote Black SlaverX wrote: ISKIES are NOT a balancing factor. For proof, see titans and supercarriers. So why do tanks require no teamwork at all, but to take the out requires tremendous teamwork? Did you even read any of the threads posted by CCP relating to 1.7? Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1480	Posted - 2013.12.13 06:04:00 - [23] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Black SlaverX wrote: ISKIES are NOT a balancing factor. For proof, see titans and supercarriers. So why do tanks require no teamwork at all, but to take the out requires tremendous teamwork? Because tank514 It's the rebuild you and your ilk forced on CCP. If you don't like it, that's too bad. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
True Adamance Scions of Athra 4864	Posted - 2013.12.13 06:08:00 - [24] - Quote Black SlaverX wrote: ISKIES are NOT a balancing factor. For proof, see titans and supercarriers. So why do tanks require no teamwork at all, but to take the out requires tremendous teamwork? ISKIES are a balancing factor, they guys who bring 30 Battleships should always beat the guys who bring 6 cruisers..... "Shudder. Again another smart idea from an Amarr..."- Forlorn Destrier (11/12/13) LAWL
Black SlaverX Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2013.12.13 06:16:00 - [25] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Black SlaverX wrote: ISKIES are NOT a balancing factor. For proof, see titans and supercarriers. So why do tanks require no teamwork at all, but to take the out requires tremendous teamwork? ISKIES are a balancing factor, they guys who bring 30 Battleships should always beat the guys who bring 6 cruisers..... No, that is a teamwork advantage, those 30 Battleships cost way more than the couple bombers it takes to pop them all. CCP has always maintained that isk is not a balancing factor.
Heathen Bastard The Bastard Brigade 743	Posted - 2013.12.13 06:18:00 - [26] - Quote Black SlaverX wrote: True Adamance wrote: Black SlaverX wrote: ISKIES are NOT a balancing factor. For proof, see titans and supercarriers. So why do tanks require no teamwork at all, but to take the out requires tremendous teamwork? ISKIES are a balancing factor, they guys who bring 30 Battleships should always beat the guys who bring 6 cruisers..... No, that is a teamwork advantage, those 30 Battleships cost way more than the couple bombers it takes to pop them all. CCP has always maintained that isk is not a balancing factor. then why was the isk cost of tanking reduced by so much? Isk is a balancing factor, deal with it. If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
Justicar Karnellia Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 237	Posted - 2013.12.13 06:19:00 - [27] - Quote Two arguments we end up reading constantly are "Tanks are expensive, so should be hard to take down" and "tanks should require teamwork to take down". First of all, ISK is never a factor - a proto suit can be killed by infantry and tanks, and they can be horrendously expensive too. Are they indestructible - far from it. Now the "teamwork" argument. There are so many things wrong with this argument, but I already made a previous thread about turning it into a zero-sum game. AV is ineffective now - and I don't mean the guy just carrying AV grenades. I mean a dedicated fit, who's only role and only purpose is to destroy vehicles - it has no anti-infantry capacity at all. That role is now ineffective against the class it was designed to counter. What people have realised is that the tank is the best counter to another tank, which is a problem - if your tank can wipe out infantry AND other thanks, then it's the ideal choice, every time. So as predicted you now try to pull out as many tanks as you can, as quickly as you can. I saw my first 7 tank deployment yesterday - only 2 nights after the patch. People are spamming tanks. They are immune to infantry, and only countered by other tanks, and they know this. I don't think this was intended, but I think once CCP fix this ridiculous speed they have, things might start to change - until then just bring out your tank - it's a no brainer.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1480	Posted - 2013.12.13 06:26:00 - [28] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: The Attorney General wrote: You can solo a tank, it just takes smarts, and patience. When you develop them, tanks will fall. Until then, practice. Show us a vid of how you kill tanks...not using another tank. Not whining, just want to see all these "brilliant" strategies. It's something in the game that you cannot even deter a charging tank. They throw on hardeners, plow in, lay waste to what they can and then zoom off. Nothing can alpha enough damage to kill them. SOMETHING should hurt through hardeners. Not saying it needs to be AV in the traditional sense but right now tanks pay too little attention to surroundings. I vote for Proxies because Lord knows those need some help. Why are all of you dedicated infantry so angry that now the best way to take out a tank is with another tank? Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 126	Posted - 2013.12.13 06:42:00 - [29] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: The Attorney General wrote: You can solo a tank, it just takes smarts, and patience. When you develop them, tanks will fall. Until then, practice. Show us a vid of how you kill tanks...not using another tank. Not whining, just want to see all these "brilliant" strategies. It's something in the game that you cannot even deter a charging tank. They throw on hardeners, plow in, lay waste to what they can and then zoom off. Nothing can alpha enough damage to kill them. SOMETHING should hurt through hardeners. Not saying it needs to be AV in the traditional sense but right now tanks pay too little attention to surroundings. I vote for Proxies because Lord knows those need some help. Why are all of you dedicated infantry so angry that now the best way to take out a tank is with another tank? Ok, even though this has been covered to death, i will go over it again. Because there is no viable counter for infantry to deploy against tanks, and since tanks are IMMUNE to normal infantry, this means in ALL scenarios a tank is the best tool for the job. Need to kill a tank? Use a tank, or maybe, just maybe your entire squad of AV will take it out. Need to kill infantry? Use a tank. Need to kill dropships? Use a tank. Need to kill infantry in an enclosed area? Use a missile tank to bottle them up, they are trapped and dying from splash damage. Need to clear an objective? Use a tank. Need to get across the field in an instant? Use a tank. Need to soak up some damage? LOL tanks are immune to over half of the weapons in the game! See the problem? CCP builds games around teamwork, tanks OWN and require no teamwork, but require teamwork to kill.
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 1573	Posted - 2013.12.13 06:44:00 - [30] - Quote WP for damaging vehicles with AV weapons: BOOM, PROBLEM SOLVED (more Info in my signature) Making AV an actual role GÿåTank DriverGÿå



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