AV was nerfed too much and vehicles are running rampant. No counter but other tanks. Paper, rock, scissors is NOT working. There is absolutely no reason to skill into swarms, AV grenades, and little reason to skill into forge guns.

Why can't people give these things a week to figure out what works before complaining? At the very least give more detailed constructive feedback.

The idea of 1.7 vehicles is that they're supposed to be very powerful when modules are active, and very vulnerable when modules are cooling down. Have you tried waiting to attack when they're in cooldown?
Make sure to use the right kinds of weapons when fighting vehicles. Forge guns and swarm launchers do more armor damage, and less shield damage, so they're best for armor tanks. Plasma cannons do more damage to shields, so they are best on shield tanks.

Keep in mind the militia speed booster modules are bugged, at least that's what I hear.

Let things settle a bit before calling for nerfs.

remotes

Im trying. It sucks though as it DESTROYS your KDR

they actually do their job which is to drive away the tanks. In mass they can be really dangerous as well. As stated by tons of tankers and this scout, no single player should be able to tank down a tank unless its another tank. Its armored support meant to make several people in a squad swap to av. One person "could" drive it away if they dont kill you in a reckless attempt to get another volley of swarms off. But your supposed to be using like 3 or 4 players in tandem.

10. Thou shalt not claim that because a premise is popular, therefore it must be true. (Bandwagon fallacy)

AV stands for anti-vehicle, not annoy vehicle. If one expects it to take three players to take a HAV, then for the sake of balance, it should take three players to operate an HAV, not just one. Otherwise an imbalance is promoted.

By the way, have you ever thought that many HAV pilots might favor their vehicles being an "I win!" button? And you agreeing implies that you sit in one of the secondary gunner seats and soak vehicle assist WPs.

Also, have you ever heard of the FGM-148 Javelin? If you say yes, then you only know it by name and not performance.

Not that it matters. They got their wish and HAVs are the gods of the battlefield... for now.

they actually do their job which is to drive away the tanks. In mass they can be really dangerous as well. As stated by tons of tankers and this scout, no single player should be able to tank down a tank unless its another tank. Its armored support meant to make several people in a squad swap to av. One person "could" drive it away if they dont kill you in a reckless attempt to get another volley of swarms off. But your supposed to be using like 3 or 4 players in tandem.

were you that redberry that was shooting at my python with 60% resists active in a std swarm suit? I only ask because this is the type of rage i would expect from him.

please don't bring in real world examples, it means ****-all when we are talking about tanks with shield generators.

Anti vehicle weapons do indeed have the most punch when it comes to light weapons dealing damage against vehicles. A single swarm launcher is enough to remove the threat from the field, add one more and it becomes a serious threat to the vehicle, three and that vehicle is in serious ****. Especially when all three can hop in an LAV and hunt said vehicle.

Swarms are anti vehicle, giving your squad/team the opportunity to move to a more defensible position or safe area, like forcing a tank/dropship away from your friendlies for mod cool down.
Since you seem to be talking about tanks may i remind you that this is anti vehicle, not anti tank. AV can destroy cars and dropships and tanks, AT can pop tanks (like that thing you mentioned from RL) very efficiently, though it wouldn't be able to touch my dropship at all.
Heavy weapons are different, which is why the forge gun is a much more effective av weapon than a light weapon as it has a much higher alpha because....well....its a heavy weapon. These are effective anti vehicle weapons, i think you will agree shooting at a vehicle with any AR is pretty futile. However they are not as effective as another vehicle, because lets face it, you are holding a weapon powered by your suit, and I'm in a python 5-6x its size.

Ivy Zalinto is speaking plain truth here, av is interesting because it now requires a little bit of coordination, skill, luck, timing, teamwork and thought to get the kill. Which seems to be what some av players are so against. I wonder why that is....
Even though your job is mostly to deny the vehicle its job of killing your team/transporting mercs/drive by scanning etc.

the only reason why HAV's are the "gods of the battlefield" is because of a typo on a militia mod. Ground vehicles wont have this for long, in fact I'm sure this will be patched at down time today. If not more militia truck lols for me till its fixed.

You may want to revisit your own tactics, as i have seen some incredibly stupid av players trying to fight me with std gear in a complex fit python when i clearly have the advantage. If you cannot find your window of engagement then most vehicle pilots are better than you already, and you wont have cheap mechanics to hide behind, no you must actually be skillful now in your job.

they actually do their job which is to drive away the tanks. In mass they can be really dangerous as well. As stated by tons of tankers and this scout, no single player should be able to tank down a tank unless its another tank. Its armored support meant to make several people in a squad swap to av. One person "could" drive it away if they dont kill you in a reckless attempt to get another volley of swarms off. But your supposed to be using like 3 or 4 players in tandem.

you Mad, The only weapon that can destroy a tank is a tank so put your ass in a sica and you destroy a madrugar :)

were you that redberry that was shooting at my python with 60% resists active in a std swarm suit? I only ask because this is the type of rage i would expect from him.

please don't bring in real world examples, it means ****-all when we are talking about tanks with shield generators.

Anti vehicle weapons do indeed have the most punch when it comes to light weapons dealing damage against vehicles. A single swarm launcher is enough to remove the threat from the field, add one more and it becomes a serious threat to the vehicle, three and that vehicle is in serious ****. Especially when all three can hop in an LAV and hunt said vehicle.

Swarms are anti vehicle, giving your squad/team the opportunity to move to a more defensible position or safe area, like forcing a tank/dropship away from your friendlies for mod cool down.
Since you seem to be talking about tanks may i remind you that this is anti vehicle, not anti tank. AV can destroy cars and dropships and tanks, AT can pop tanks (like that thing you mentioned from RL) very efficiently, though it wouldn't be able to touch my dropship at all.
Heavy weapons are different, which is why the forge gun is a much more effective av weapon than a light weapon as it has a much higher alpha because....well....its a heavy weapon. These are effective anti vehicle weapons, i think you will agree shooting at a vehicle with any AR is pretty futile. However they are not as effective as another vehicle, because lets face it, you are holding a weapon powered by your suit, and I'm in a python 5-6x its size.

Ivy Zalinto is speaking plain truth here, av is interesting because it now requires a little bit of coordination, skill, luck, timing, teamwork and thought to get the kill. Which seems to be what some av players are so against. I wonder why that is....
Even though your job is mostly to deny the vehicle its job of killing your team/transporting mercs/drive by scanning etc.

the only reason why HAV's are the "gods of the battlefield" is because of a typo on a militia mod. Ground vehicles wont have this for long, in fact I'm sure this will be patched at down time today. If not more militia truck lols for me till its fixed.

You may want to revisit your own tactics, as i have seen some incredibly stupid av players trying to fight me with std gear in a complex fit python when i clearly have the advantage. If you cannot find your window of engagement then most vehicle pilots are better than you already, and you wont have cheap mechanics to hide behind, no you must actually be skillful now in your job.

AV was nerfed too much and vehicles are running rampant. No counter but other tanks. Paper, rock, scissors is NOT working. There is absolutely no reason to skill into swarms, AV grenades, and little reason to skill into forge guns.

AV was nerfed too much and vehicles are running rampant. No counter but other tanks. Paper, rock, scissors is NOT working. There is absolutely no reason to skill into swarms, AV grenades, and little reason to skill into forge guns.

AV was nerfed too much and vehicles are running rampant. No counter but other tanks. Paper, rock, scissors is NOT working. There is absolutely no reason to skill into swarms, AV grenades, and little reason to skill into forge guns.

That's cute you think I use SWARMS or that I'd keep firing at a vehicle while the hardeners are on.

So you're justifying that an HAV has a right to require less skill, effort, and be nearly indestructible when confronted with infantry based AV weapons because it's an HAV? That's a pretty hypocritical stand.

As you want to get technical with wording... I can't seem to find tanks on the market, only HAVs. The "V" stands for vehicle.

As for earning kills... I hope you realize that if we get zero kills because players like you feel that AV is supposed to stand for "annoy vehicle" we get no ISK or SP beyond the base for being there. We might as well AFK if that's going to be the case.

Talking about coordination (assuming you mean teaming with other AV players) is ludicrous as long as a single player can be an effective force in an HAV. Keep things fair and balanced with V vs AV, something pilots seem not to give to $hits about lately. If three AVers are needed to take down an HAV, then the HAV should sit completely non functional unless it has three players manning it.

Cute huh? I think that situation outlines a lot of the complaints of av players, why can't I blow up this well fit, very expensive python this skilled pilot brought in by myself?

HAV's require more skill points, and takes just as much effort to use well. To be clear, I am justifying that tanks are the most effective means to kill another tank. Av is still effective just not as effective. Because light and heavy weapons aren't as big, powerful or as much as an investment as a tank. This game is not about kd its about money.

I do want to get technical about this, this thread topic states 'V'hicles are OP. I'm not a tank driver, I am a dropship pilot. Dropships are vehicles too, by saying buff av so one man can take down a tank also affects me. Remember its AV not AT so you are justifying that one man should be able to destroy all vehicles? That's a pretty hypocritical stand.

As for getting kills, I stated before and will again, I'm not saying av shouldn't be able to take a vehicle down, otherwise yes you wouldn't get paid and vehicles would be op. I'm saying it should take skill and coordination, doesn't necessarily mean with other dedicated av, could be two guys with av nades, a tank, a dropship, remote det logis or scouts. Hell even car durkas or a guy sitting on a turret! Even if you don't get the kill you get the assist, there are plenty of cars to pop, turrets to destroy and people to help kill. Your main job as solo infantry av is to deter vehicles from doing their job.

Saying vehicle pilots don't use teamwork is an insult. I have to use teamwork as a dropship pilot. My entire vehicle is based around teamwork. If I fly solo I'm operating at 20% efficiency at best. A forge gunner takes at least 3 people (myself gunners or shock troops) to spot engage and eliminate that one man threat, who before 1.7 would be able to kill me far before I ever knew he was there. Why should av be able to solo vehicles when vehicles do require teamwork? They shouldn't, because that would be imbalanced, however av player have hardly given two $hits about that, now or in the past.
If I'm flying with one gunner two shock troops and a forge gun any tank I find (besides redline rail tank pu$$ys) is dead. So htfu, some people have had to use skill and teamwork even when one man could solo them, its more fun playing with other people anyway.

they actually do their job which is to drive away the tanks. In mass they can be really dangerous as well. As stated by tons of tankers and this scout, no single player should be able to tank down a tank unless its another tank. Its armored support meant to make several people in a squad swap to av. One person "could" drive it away if they dont kill you in a reckless attempt to get another volley of swarms off. But your supposed to be using like 3 or 4 players in tandem.

HAV's require more skill points, and takes just as much effort to use well. To be clear, I am justifying that tanks are the most effective means to kill another tank. Av is still effective just not as effective. Because light and heavy weapons aren't as big, powerful or as much as an investment as a tank. This game is not about kd its about money.

they actually do their job which is to drive away the tanks. In mass they can be really dangerous as well. As stated by tons of tankers and this scout, no single player should be able to tank down a tank unless its another tank. Its armored support meant to make several people in a squad swap to av. One person "could" drive it away if they dont kill you in a reckless attempt to get another volley of swarms off. But your supposed to be using like 3 or 4 players in tandem.

2 complex dmg mods, wyk proto forge, prof 5, takes me 4-6 shells to kill 1 tank......

Just because 1 jackass with proto swarms can't take down a tank anymore (unless the pilot is afk) doesn't mean they're OP, vehicles are in a pretty good spot right now and I actually like where they're at alot.

I don't see why full time AV guys are crying so hard.

My fat suit alt was able to reliably destroy tanks last night, by myself.

It only requires two things:

Intelligence, and patience.

Both of which are in short supply for the people who claim to be AV.

If you plan to solo a tank now, it requires good positioning and good timing. And an LAV.

Still the same old dance as before, except now instead of never knowing when the best time to attack the tank is, now you have handy lite brite shows to tell you when it is green.

Once those modules go to sleep, you can put the tanker to bed too, no problem.

But if you are trying to bring a tank down with its hardeners down, you better get some friends. Lots of them.

Learning when to disengage is something tankers have had to know to survive for a long time. Welcome to our world.

So here is the truth at last. Tankers don't want to be part of a balanced game, they just want to be untouchable. Any 1 playstyle should have a weakness that can be exploited by another playstyle.

in general
1 AV'er < 1 infantry
1 Infantry < 1 tank
1 tank < 1 nothing

tone down the active resists and damage mods as in cut them in half.
and see how well that might work..

Or you could just wait for the mods to go into cooldown. Tanks have never been this weak. You just have to be smart and use timing.

With the current speed most vehicles have and the subsequent lowering of AV effectiveness, this moment of invariability is too long, either that or they have a too short downtime.

Dropships needed no help.

Someone at CCP pulled a Michael Bolton with the MLT injector and put a decimal in the wrong spot. If you see a tank breaking the sound barrier, that's probably why. Other than that, they really aren't that much faster than before. Torque got a huge buff, but that's about it. All this was probably in preparation for infantry being able to tackle in 1.8.

About people complaining about AV being underpowered... I lose at least a dropship per ambush (btw i don't even bother playing domination or skirmish because of all the red lining tanks), sometimes 2 so that is about 500k-1 mill isk per game and I get paid around 150-200k per game. How much does it cost you to get your little toy out in the wild?!

As a dropship pilot, I can tell you that there is no way in hell that I can stay still with even a single swarm unleashing on me. I have to run, NOW or I am dead. That's not underpowered, it's finally balanced. You guys are complaining because you had it good for a year where you just looked at us and we would die. Now it's time to grow a brain and actually INVEST to kill people that INVESTED.

I am going to ask this as politely as I can.

How the hell did you come by this conclusion?

the purpose of a dropship is to transport infantry - not dominate the skies and crush infantry via air-support.

You are a tanker and do not deserve to talk about AV as I know you would actually AV with a tank because its cheaper and more effective. Thanks though

they actually do their job which is to drive away the tanks. In mass they can be really dangerous as well. As stated by tons of tankers and this scout, no single player should be able to tank down a tank unless its another tank. Its armored support meant to make several people in a squad swap to av. One person "could" drive it away if they dont kill you in a reckless attempt to get another volley of swarms off. But your supposed to be using like 3 or 4 players in tandem.

But your supposed to be using like 3 or 4 players in tandem.

Why can't people give these things a week to figure out what works before complaining? At the very least give more detailed constructive feedback.

The idea of 1.7 vehicles is that they're supposed to be very powerful when modules are active, and very vulnerable when modules are cooling down. Have you tried waiting to attack when they're in cooldown?
Make sure to use the right kinds of weapons when fighting vehicles. Forge guns and swarm launchers do more armor damage, and less shield damage, so they're best for armor tanks. Plasma cannons do more damage to shields, so they are best on shield tanks.

Keep in mind the militia speed booster modules are bugged, at least that's what I hear.

Let things settle a bit before calling for nerfs.

lol....

i like seeing trolls out there. thanks but work harder please to keep up the good name of troll.

maybe they can increase swarm damage to 240/250 but thats it, but then again AV is hitting tanks with hardeners up, they have a 40 sec cooldown, just talking out loaf

AV was nerfed too much and vehicles are running rampant. No counter but other tanks. Paper, rock, scissors is NOT working. There is absolutely no reason to skill into swarms, AV grenades, and little reason to skill into forge guns.

the idea of having tanks in a war is to inflict several damage to the enemy with low losses, storming the enemy with heavy armor. otherwise you would just be paying a lot for a mobile tuna can.

And the idea of having ANTI VEHICLE is to KILL vehicles and therefore your logic is invalid.

Squads should not have to invest 2-4 squad mates to tackle tanks. It defeats the purpose of the game.

If you look back on warfare history in WWII mines and a single man weapon called a bazooka/panzerfaust was used to 1 shot tanks. After WWII the Russians invented a cheap, mobile, and effective weapon called the RPG.

How about introducing a weapon along those lines.

I rather thought the Plasma was a good choice of weapon when it was advertised, after all, it's called a cannon, guess not huh....