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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4319
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Posted - 2013.12.04 20:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
It's a step.
You now need to fit regulators in your low slots to have quickly regenerating shields, no more armor plates.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Kal Kronos
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
132
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Posted - 2013.12.04 20:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
You must not run that calogi much any more if you post that garbage, o wait callogi has **** ton of low slots...
Dedicated redline sniper, tower forger, nade spammer, protostomper, and mass driver.
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General John Ripper
Pradox One
Proficiency V.
5652
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Posted - 2013.12.04 20:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:It's a step.
You now need to fit regulators in your low slots to have quickly regenerating shields, no more armor plates.
Yup +1 to variety in gameplay.
Yes, It was me.
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Magnus Amadeuss
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
258
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Posted - 2013.12.04 20:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:It's a step.
You now need to fit regulators in your low slots to have quickly regenerating shields, no more armor plates.
I can see your point, but aren't even the caldari now using armor plates because of lol TTK?
an easy fix to Matchmaking
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Cosgar
ParagonX
8305
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Posted - 2013.12.04 20:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Move damage mods to low slots and armor/shield will be balanced then.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
524
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
ARs melting brick tanking suits in less than 1 second, eliminating those suits makes Dust a bad twitch shooter, instead of a mediocre one. |
Cyrius Li-Moody
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
1894
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
Because Minmatar assaults and scouts are doing a lot of brick tanking.
Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
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Soldiersaint
Deepspace Digital
603
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:It's a step.
You now need to fit regulators in your low slots to have quickly regenerating shields, no more armor plates.
Ha thats what you think. Defensive players wont have any problems with this at all. The only people who are going to suffer are you run n gun rambo guys who think every one should always be out in the open. Battle brothers like me who actually have a brain will make sure to stay by cover and have other battle brothers nearby to back them up. |
Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
Top Men.
338
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Posted - 2013.12.04 20:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
I, as a shield tanker, completely agree. Dual tanking now has a penalty...it's a real shot to pure shield tankers but the brick tanker is hit by the scattershot.
This leaves a nice doorway to buffing shields in next patch or whenever.
Going to be a rough month+ for shield tankers though. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
8306
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Because Minmatar assaults and scouts are doing a lot of brick tanking.
I instantly thought of you when I saw the shield nerf. Didn't you just now get your scout Mk.0?
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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GET ATMESON
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
184
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Posted - 2013.12.04 20:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Move damage mods to low slots and armor/shield will be balanced then.
Wont ever happen. Even armor tanking in EvE damage mods are a low. You put damage mods as a low and armor loses the its advantage on shields. Shields are still useful but everyone is going to switch to armor and the MD will kill most armor tankers.
Heavys only have 2 heavy guns. Please dont turn the NERF bat on them. Give heavys more suits or guns please :D
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Cyrius Li-Moody
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
1902
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Posted - 2013.12.04 20:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Because Minmatar assaults and scouts are doing a lot of brick tanking. I instantly thought of you when I saw the shield nerf. Didn't you just now get your scout Mk.0?
Dual specced Minnie Assault mk.0 and Scout mk.0.
Loving that choice. ::puts head down. drags feet.::
Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2147
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
Galvan Nized wrote:I, as a shield tanker, completely agree. Dual tanking now has a penalty...it's a real shot to pure shield tankers but the brick tanker is hit by the scattershot.
This leaves a nice doorway to buffing shields in next patch or whenever.
Going to be a rough month+ for shield tankers though.
I can't even come up with words...
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
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Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
848
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Cat Merc wrote:It's a step.
You now need to fit regulators in your low slots to have quickly regenerating shields, no more armor plates. I can see your point, but aren't even the caldari now using armor plates because of lol TTK?
^This. Shield Regulators are so pathetically bad compared to adding more health with an armor plate that it's pointless to bother with them.
The penalty to the delay better be incredibly low considering the small penalty you get for adding armor (which gives a lot more HP).
"The unexamined life is not worth living."
RNDclan.com
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2147
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Posted - 2013.12.04 20:18:00 -
[15] - Quote
One basic armor plate is not only easier to fit than a complex regulator for a shield tanker, but it is twice as effective.
In this build, I'd still have that opinion even if the Complex Regulator was buffed to 85%.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
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Karl Marx II
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
283
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:21:00 -
[16] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:It's a step.
You now need to fit regulators in your low slots to have quickly regenerating shields, no more armor plates.
Yeh deal with brick tanking by making shield tanking even worse ..
Genius
I guess it's armour tanking only from now on then .. why waste time with shield extenders when you can run armor plates and damage mods ?
My Theme
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Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
2171
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Because Minmatar assaults and scouts are doing a lot of brick tanking.
We don't even know how much the penalty is yet, but if it's significant, then everyone else is probably going to cease stacking extenders, meaning light frames and shot gunners have a greater capacity to OHKO their targets. Furthermore, I play light frames very cautiously, taking up to a minute on occasion to reposition myself behind the enemy lines, plenty of it me to regenerate shields. A simple adaptation of your play style from diving into enemies head first and weaving around them in a fast paced, frantic dance to a slower, more tactical pace, could benefit you and your team even more than Rambo-ing. Who knows, though, really. None of us have even played a game yet, but here we are, theorycraffting.
"When nothing is going your way, go out of your way to do nothing."
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Your Absolut End
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
279
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Posted - 2013.12.04 20:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Move damage mods to low slots and armor/shield will be balanced then.
what about NO?
another one bites the Dust...
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Justice Prevails
128
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Posted - 2013.12.04 20:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
Don't get it. Why do people care so much about how someone else uses their modules and suits? The name of the game is make your character the way you want him/her to be. Whether I brick tank or load up on damage mods should be of no concern to anyone else. Please explain. Does it have something to do with balance? Some miniscule numbers that I am not seeing?
Great job, team. Head back to the MCC for debriefing and cocktails.
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Magnus Amadeuss
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
259
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Posted - 2013.12.04 20:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
After thinking about it some, here is the choice for shield tankers.
Shave ~1 second off of depleted shield recharge
Add 94 HP at the cost of 1% speed, 10 CPU and 1 PG.
With 500 shield HP not even lasting 1 second under AR fire, what would you choose?
an easy fix to Matchmaking
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4321
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Posted - 2013.12.04 20:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Move damage mods to low slots and armor/shield will be balanced then.
How exactly will it be balanced?
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
1307
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
Came to this Postclusion juuuuuuuuust before you Mister Cat :3
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1563272#post1563272
Shields as Weapons
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4321
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Because Minmatar assaults and scouts are doing a lot of brick tanking.
They were hit wrongly.
Which is why I think they need a reduced base recharge delay.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
783
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Posted - 2013.12.04 20:40:00 -
[24] - Quote
This is another proof that CCP is totally disconnected with their own game.
KDR > ALL
ME > KDR
ME > ALL
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Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
1307
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Move damage mods to low slots and armor/shield will be balanced then. How exactly will it be balanced?
It won't be. It will leave armor tankers only able to Dual Tank because that will be all that is left in High, killing the point of the 'nerf' in the first place. Meanwhile, it will give Shield Tanekrs access to everything. That isn't balanced, its a firing squad lined up across armor.
Shields as Weapons
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4321
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:41:00 -
[26] - Quote
Parson Atreides wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Cat Merc wrote:It's a step.
You now need to fit regulators in your low slots to have quickly regenerating shields, no more armor plates. I can see your point, but aren't even the caldari now using armor plates because of lol TTK? ^This. Shield Regulators are so pathetically bad compared to adding more health with an armor plate that it's pointless to bother with them. The penalty to the delay better be incredibly low considering the small penalty you get for adding armor (which gives a lot more HP than shield extenders).
You are comparing speed to recharge delay.
These can't be directly compared.
Now, yes plates give more HP, but armor doesn't have a base recharge and needs to fit armor repairers.
One complex repairer is **** slow.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
1307
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Because Minmatar assaults and scouts are doing a lot of brick tanking. They were hit wrongly. Which is why I think they need a reduced base recharge delay.
Don't scouts already HAVE that? I thought that was one of their (few) bonuses?
Shields as Weapons
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Cyrius Li-Moody
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
1909
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Posted - 2013.12.04 20:43:00 -
[28] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Because Minmatar assaults and scouts are doing a lot of brick tanking. They were hit wrongly. Which is why I think they need a reduced base recharge delay. Don't scouts already HAVE that? I thought that was one of their (few) bonuses?
Mmmm... Scout HP recharge is 10hp more than assault. Deplete is around 4 seconds. Seems fast but to put things in perspective... I have less than 350 hp total. Fully tanked.
Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
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Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
1307
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Parson Atreides wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Cat Merc wrote:It's a step.
You now need to fit regulators in your low slots to have quickly regenerating shields, no more armor plates. I can see your point, but aren't even the caldari now using armor plates because of lol TTK? ^This. Shield Regulators are so pathetically bad compared to adding more health with an armor plate that it's pointless to bother with them. The penalty to the delay better be incredibly low considering the small penalty you get for adding armor (which gives a lot more HP than shield extenders). You are comparing speed to recharge delay. These can't be directly compared. Now, yes plates give more HP, but armor doesn't have a base recharge and needs to fit armor repairers. One complex repairer is **** slow.
Local Armor reps are actually meant more for Shield Tankers, so they can patch up the small amount of damage that might leak through when they're abit too slow on getting to cover. Any Armor Tanker relying on Armor Reppers is either a dead man or one not on the front lines. Armor Tankers NEED Logistics support, or need to be the Logi themselves, who wouldn't get shot as much if they are doing their job.
Shields as Weapons
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4321
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:43:00 -
[30] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Because Minmatar assaults and scouts are doing a lot of brick tanking. They were hit wrongly. Which is why I think they need a reduced base recharge delay. Don't scouts already HAVE that? I thought that was one of their (few) bonuses?
Was talking more about Minmatar assaults.
However, scouts will need it too, just less so. (Because of the way % work)
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Cosgar
ParagonX
8311
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Posted - 2013.12.04 20:44:00 -
[31] - Quote
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Cosgar wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Because Minmatar assaults and scouts are doing a lot of brick tanking. I instantly thought of you when I saw the shield nerf. Didn't you just now get your scout Mk.0? Dual specced Minnie Assault mk.0 and Scout mk.0. Loving that choice. ::puts head down. drags feet.::
Logi isn't that much better since you almost need to dual tank.
**** it! Back to BF4. Tired of waiting for this game to get good.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
1307
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:45:00 -
[32] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Because Minmatar assaults and scouts are doing a lot of brick tanking. They were hit wrongly. Which is why I think they need a reduced base recharge delay. Don't scouts already HAVE that? I thought that was one of their (few) bonuses? Was talking more about Minmatar assaults. However, scouts will need it too, just less so. (Because of the way % work)
Oh I know they will need more, but because it is there in the first place it gives you a leg up to ask for it to be increased. Just wanted to affirm my knowledge there. For example, asking the Heavy to be faster would get you laughed out of a discussion, but asking for him to be tankier... get what I'm saying?
Shields as Weapons
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Cyrius Li-Moody
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
1909
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:45:00 -
[33] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Because Minmatar assaults and scouts are doing a lot of brick tanking. They were hit wrongly. Which is why I think they need a reduced base recharge delay. Don't scouts already HAVE that? I thought that was one of their (few) bonuses? Was talking more about Minmatar assaults. However, scouts will need it too, just less so. (Because of the way % work)
If minnie assaults had 3 lows it wouldn't be bad.
But we don't.
Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
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Sephirian Fair
0uter.heaven
Proficiency V.
144
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:46:00 -
[34] - Quote
Stopping brick tanking? This hits the pure Shield tankers far more than the dual tanks. I've been running pure Shield Extenders and Regulators since the start of Chromosome. My primary fit doesn't even use a proto weapon so I can fit 4 Shield Extenders and 3 Regulators because it is my favorite style of play. If the penalty is even as high as 5%, CCP just completely fucks over the ones actually using Shields to their initial design as hit and run skirmishers. The Brick tankers don't give a damn about a small added delay. They survive their encounter based on eHP, which isn't changed and just take a little longer to get back to full health.
If regulators aren't buffed in conjunction to this, CCP just again proves how poor at balancing they are. The same mistakes are constantly made with no signs of them ever learning. |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4321
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:48:00 -
[35] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Parson Atreides wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Cat Merc wrote:It's a step.
You now need to fit regulators in your low slots to have quickly regenerating shields, no more armor plates. I can see your point, but aren't even the caldari now using armor plates because of lol TTK? ^This. Shield Regulators are so pathetically bad compared to adding more health with an armor plate that it's pointless to bother with them. The penalty to the delay better be incredibly low considering the small penalty you get for adding armor (which gives a lot more HP than shield extenders). You are comparing speed to recharge delay. These can't be directly compared. Now, yes plates give more HP, but armor doesn't have a base recharge and needs to fit armor repairers. One complex repairer is **** slow. Local Armor reps are actually meant more for Shield Tankers, so they can patch up the small amount of damage that might leak through when they're abit too slow on getting to cover. Any Armor Tanker relying on Armor Reppers is either a dead man or one not on the front lines. Armor Tankers NEED Logistics support, or need to be the Logi themselves, who wouldn't get shot as much if they are doing their job.
Yes tell that to my Gallente Assault.
Yeah it's worse than my Caldari Assault, but it's doing it's job.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
1307
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:48:00 -
[36] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Cosgar wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Because Minmatar assaults and scouts are doing a lot of brick tanking. I instantly thought of you when I saw the shield nerf. Didn't you just now get your scout Mk.0? Dual specced Minnie Assault mk.0 and Scout mk.0. Loving that choice. ::puts head down. drags feet.:: Logi isn't that much better since you almost need to dual tank. **** it! Back to BF4. Tired of waiting for this game to get good.
Not trying to flame, but wasn't BF4 full of bugs, glitches, and a poor micro-transaction system that sold power? Jim Sterling even made a full two videos on its 'paywall'.
And Logi does not need to dual tank. Play it as the support role it is intended to be and you will be surprised how much less HP you need out of it.
Shields as Weapons
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4321
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:49:00 -
[37] - Quote
Sephirian Fair wrote:Stopping brick tanking? This hits the pure Shield tankers far more than the dual tanks. I've been running pure Shield Extenders and Regulators since the start of Chromosome. My primary fit doesn't even use a proto weapon so I can fit 4 Shield Extenders and 3 Regulators because it is my favorite style of play. If the penalty is even as high as 5%, CCP just completely fucks over the ones actually using Shields to their initial design as hit and run skirmishers. The Brick tankers don't give a damn about a small added delay. They survive their encounter based on eHP, which isn't changed and just take a little longer to get back to full health.
If regulators aren't buffed in conjunction to this, CCP just again proves how poor at balancing they are. The same mistakes are constantly made with no signs of them ever learning.
Actually, my Caldari Assault has a recharge delay of 2 seconds.
Considering there is a bug that allows shields to recharge in fire for one pulse every time the delay has passed, it basically recharges more /s than my Gallente Assault with two complex armor reps, while having near exact same HP.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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R'adeh Hunt
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
501
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:50:00 -
[38] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Move damage mods to low slots and armor/shield will be balanced then.
THIS!!
Armor tanking is clearly the superior way to tank now...so it would only fair to make it easier for shield tankers to fit damage mods and at least make up for it a bit. Especially since the stupid aim assist made speed tanking totally unviable.
In EVE (which uses similar "fitting" techniques), damage mods are low slot modules. I never understood why that's different in Dust.
Before the introduction of aim assist, you could have made the argument that shield tankers can make up for their inferior tank by speed tanking...but that's impossible now! |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
1307
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:51:00 -
[39] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:
Local Armor reps are actually meant more for Shield Tankers, so they can patch up the small amount of damage that might leak through when they're abit too slow on getting to cover. Any Armor Tanker relying on Armor Reppers is either a dead man or one not on the front lines. Armor Tankers NEED Logistics support, or need to be the Logi themselves, who wouldn't get shot as much if they are doing their job.
Yes tell that to my Gallente Assault. Yeah it's worse than my Caldari Assault, but it's doing it's job.
You can cap out your local armor reps at 15-22 per second, but then you've just turned yourself into a Shield Tank with no til death HP buffer because we have no 'hull' HP. If I understand what you are implying anyway. And even then, your now much smaller HP bar getting healed by a half-a-bullet every second isn't nearly as solid as a Logi-supported platewall.
Shields as Weapons
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4321
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:52:00 -
[40] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:
Local Armor reps are actually meant more for Shield Tankers, so they can patch up the small amount of damage that might leak through when they're abit too slow on getting to cover. Any Armor Tanker relying on Armor Reppers is either a dead man or one not on the front lines. Armor Tankers NEED Logistics support, or need to be the Logi themselves, who wouldn't get shot as much if they are doing their job.
Yes tell that to my Gallente Assault. Yeah it's worse than my Caldari Assault, but it's doing it's job. You can cap out your local armor reps at 15-22 per second, but then you've just turned yourself into a Shield Tank with no til death HP buffer because we have no 'hull' HP. If I understand what you are implying anyway. And even then, your now much smaller HP bar getting healed by a half-a-bullet every second isn't nearly as solid as a Logi-supported platewall.
I have around 500 armor, and 217 shields.
I regen at around 10hp/s.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Sephirian Fair
0uter.heaven
Proficiency V.
144
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Posted - 2013.12.04 20:52:00 -
[41] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Sephirian Fair wrote:Stopping brick tanking? This hits the pure Shield tankers far more than the dual tanks. I've been running pure Shield Extenders and Regulators since the start of Chromosome. My primary fit doesn't even use a proto weapon so I can fit 4 Shield Extenders and 3 Regulators because it is my favorite style of play. If the penalty is even as high as 5%, CCP just completely fucks over the ones actually using Shields to their initial design as hit and run skirmishers. The Brick tankers don't give a damn about a small added delay. They survive their encounter based on eHP, which isn't changed and just take a little longer to get back to full health.
If regulators aren't buffed in conjunction to this, CCP just again proves how poor at balancing they are. The same mistakes are constantly made with no signs of them ever learning. Actually, my Caldari Assault has a recharge delay of 2 seconds. Considering there is a bug that allows shields to recharge in fire for one pulse every time the delay has passed, it basically recharges more /s than my Gallente Assault with two complex armor reps.
And you're running 3 regulators on it. That's how you get 2 seconds, or it is technically 1.9 seconds. 2 regulators is 2.6-2.7 range. A 5% penalty will remove an Enhanced Regulator's worth when using all Shield Extenders.
And that's not a bug, that is people missing. If they miss for that 1.9 seconds, you get a pulse of health from it. Unless there is a legitimate bug where the pulsing doesn't stop, then that would need to be reported and dealt with. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
8315
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:53:00 -
[42] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Move damage mods to low slots and armor/shield will be balanced then. How exactly will it be balanced?
Why should armor get the highest HP ceiling and access to damage mods too? The only reason armor suits use damage mods is because there isn't any thing else worth putting in those high slots.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Tectonic Fusion
648
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:53:00 -
[43] - Quote
Soldiersaint wrote:Cat Merc wrote:It's a step.
You now need to fit regulators in your low slots to have quickly regenerating shields, no more armor plates. Ha thats what you think. Defensive players wont have any problems with this at all. The only people who are going to suffer are you run n gun rambo guys who think every one should always be out in the open. Battle brothers like me who actually have a brain will make sure to stay by cover and have other battle brothers nearby to back them up.
Yeah. That's how I play when I'm Caldari Assault. TACAR For the wi-oh yeah... that's right...it got nerfed so...
RAIL RIFLE FTW!!!
Solo Player
Squad status: Locked
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Eldest Dragon
0uter.heaven
Proficiency V.
387
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Posted - 2013.12.04 20:54:00 -
[44] - Quote
Its also a step towards eliminating ppl using shields at all. 
When your playing dust and your frustrated...if all else fails...turn off the ps3. Works every time.
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4321
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Posted - 2013.12.04 20:55:00 -
[45] - Quote
Sephirian Fair wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Sephirian Fair wrote:Stopping brick tanking? This hits the pure Shield tankers far more than the dual tanks. I've been running pure Shield Extenders and Regulators since the start of Chromosome. My primary fit doesn't even use a proto weapon so I can fit 4 Shield Extenders and 3 Regulators because it is my favorite style of play. If the penalty is even as high as 5%, CCP just completely fucks over the ones actually using Shields to their initial design as hit and run skirmishers. The Brick tankers don't give a damn about a small added delay. They survive their encounter based on eHP, which isn't changed and just take a little longer to get back to full health.
If regulators aren't buffed in conjunction to this, CCP just again proves how poor at balancing they are. The same mistakes are constantly made with no signs of them ever learning. Actually, my Caldari Assault has a recharge delay of 2 seconds. Considering there is a bug that allows shields to recharge in fire for one pulse every time the delay has passed, it basically recharges more /s than my Gallente Assault with two complex armor reps. And you're running 3 regulators on it. That's how you get 2 seconds, or it is technically 1.9 seconds. 2 regulators is 2.6-2.7 range. A 5% penalty will remove an Enhanced Regulator's worth when using all Shield Extenders. And that's not a bug, that is people missing. If they miss for that 1.9 seconds, you get a pulse of health from it. Unless there is a legitimate bug where the pulsing doesn't stop, then that would need to be reported and dealt with.
It pulses, then it waits until the delay has passed, and pulses again.
It doesn't care if there is damage.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
|
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
462
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:55:00 -
[46] - Quote
Why would an armor tanker care about having no inherent regen when a logi will gladly rep them for 40-175 HP/sec to farm WP? Or when multiple beams make them unkillable by anything except except cores, a forge gun direct hit, a vehicle hit, or an OB, all the while acting as a source of WP for their team?
Why would an armor tanker care about lower movement speed when they are tethered to a logi by a repair tool beam, or to one spot by the radius of their triage nanohive?
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4321
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:57:00 -
[47] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Move damage mods to low slots and armor/shield will be balanced then. How exactly will it be balanced? Why should armor get the highest HP ceiling and access to damage mods too? The only reason armor suits use damage mods is because there isn't any thing else worth putting in those high slots.
CEILING.
No armor tanker worth a damn runs with more than 600 armor HP.
My armor tanker suit without logistics support: 500 armor.
My armor tanker suit WITH logistics support: 600 armor.
If I completely forget about armor reps, don't have any equipment, and use an advanced weapon, I can get 800 HP.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
5778
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:57:00 -
[48] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Why would an armor tanker care about having no inherent regen when a logi will gladly rep them for 40-175 HP/sec to farm WP? Or when multiple beams make them unkillable by anything except except cores, a forge gun direct hit, a vehicle hit, or an OB, all the while acting as a source of WP for their team?
So, people using teamwork against people too stupid to shoot the logi?
Level 5 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Supporter of CCP raRaRa.
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4321
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:58:00 -
[49] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Why would an armor tanker care about having no inherent regen when a logi will gladly rep them for 40-175 HP/sec to farm WP? Or when multiple beams make them unkillable by anything except except cores, a forge gun direct hit, a vehicle hit, or an OB, all the while acting as a source of WP for their team?
Why would an armor tanker care about lower movement speed when they are tethered to a logi by a repair tool beam, or to one spot by the radius of their triage nanohive?
But that's exactly it, it means armor is doing it's job.
It's moving slowly with logistics support behind it.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
|
Cosgar
ParagonX
8315
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:59:00 -
[50] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Cosgar wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Cosgar wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Because Minmatar assaults and scouts are doing a lot of brick tanking. I instantly thought of you when I saw the shield nerf. Didn't you just now get your scout Mk.0? Dual specced Minnie Assault mk.0 and Scout mk.0. Loving that choice. ::puts head down. drags feet.:: Logi isn't that much better since you almost need to dual tank. **** it! Back to BF4. Tired of waiting for this game to get good. Not trying to flame, but wasn't BF4 full of bugs, glitches, and a poor micro-transaction system that sold power? Jim Sterling even made a full two videos on its 'paywall'. And Logi does not need to dual tank. Play it as the support role it is intended to be and you will be surprised how much less HP you need out of it.
How about we stop telling each other how to fit our suits? This is why we have the problems we have now. And this is coming from a logi that uses proto equipment, despite any incentive to do so.
Also? Who had a better release? BF4 or Uprising.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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|
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
462
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:00:00 -
[51] - Quote
Logi can be in cover. Logi can be up to 31 meters away if they are using the Lai Dai flux repair tool, perhaps pushing them out of your optimal. And it's harder to shoot and kill the target that's farther away when the closer guy is killing you whenever your head pops into the open. |
Slag Emberforge
Immortal Retribution
191
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:01:00 -
[52] - Quote
Save your tears and wait for the numbers people.
It could be 1/3/5% penalty just like the 1/3/5 for movement speed on plates. Or 2/4/6..
Or 20/40/60%.
The numbers are what determine whether its game breaking or not, and none of you know them. So shut up about it already. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
8315
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:02:00 -
[53] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Move damage mods to low slots and armor/shield will be balanced then. How exactly will it be balanced? Why should armor get the highest HP ceiling and access to damage mods too? The only reason armor suits use damage mods is because there isn't any thing else worth putting in those high slots. CEILING. No armor tanker worth a damn runs with more than 600 armor HP. My armor tanker suit without logistics support: 500 armor. My armor tanker suit WITH logistics support: 600 armor. If I completely forget about armor reps, don't have any equipment, and use an advanced weapon, I can get 800 HP.
Sounds like a first world problem.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4324
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:03:00 -
[54] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:
How about we stop telling each other how to fit our suits? This is why we have the problems we have now. And this is coming from a logi that uses proto equipment, despite any incentive to do so.
Also? Who had a better release? BF4 or Uprising.
"How about we stop telling each other how to fit our suits?"
A shield tanker named Cosgar keeps saying that armor suits run with stacked plates.
A armor tanker named Cat Merc keeps saying that it isn't viable without logi support, which means team work, which should be more powerful.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
|
Sephirian Fair
0uter.heaven
Proficiency V.
145
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:03:00 -
[55] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Sephirian Fair wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Sephirian Fair wrote:Stopping brick tanking? This hits the pure Shield tankers far more than the dual tanks. I've been running pure Shield Extenders and Regulators since the start of Chromosome. My primary fit doesn't even use a proto weapon so I can fit 4 Shield Extenders and 3 Regulators because it is my favorite style of play. If the penalty is even as high as 5%, CCP just completely fucks over the ones actually using Shields to their initial design as hit and run skirmishers. The Brick tankers don't give a damn about a small added delay. They survive their encounter based on eHP, which isn't changed and just take a little longer to get back to full health.
If regulators aren't buffed in conjunction to this, CCP just again proves how poor at balancing they are. The same mistakes are constantly made with no signs of them ever learning. Actually, my Caldari Assault has a recharge delay of 2 seconds. Considering there is a bug that allows shields to recharge in fire for one pulse every time the delay has passed, it basically recharges more /s than my Gallente Assault with two complex armor reps. And you're running 3 regulators on it. That's how you get 2 seconds, or it is technically 1.9 seconds. 2 regulators is 2.6-2.7 range. A 5% penalty will remove an Enhanced Regulator's worth when using all Shield Extenders. And that's not a bug, that is people missing. If they miss for that 1.9 seconds, you get a pulse of health from it. Unless there is a legitimate bug where the pulsing doesn't stop, then that would need to be reported and dealt with. It pulses, then it waits until the delay has passed, and pulses again. It doesn't care if there is damage.
Then report the bug, probably with less vagueness than you are doing here. Nerfing the play style because of the bug doesn't make any sense anyways. The two classes of defense have been fairly equal since armor's last buff and CCP's decision to nerf one class compared to making the distinct playstyle of it more appealing just continues to show how amateurish that are when it comes to balancing their game.
This doesn't stop brick tankers. I don't know what about this even comes close. All it does is hurt the pure shield mercs and nearly forces them to brick tank. |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4324
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:04:00 -
[56] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Move damage mods to low slots and armor/shield will be balanced then. How exactly will it be balanced? Why should armor get the highest HP ceiling and access to damage mods too? The only reason armor suits use damage mods is because there isn't any thing else worth putting in those high slots. CEILING. No armor tanker worth a damn runs with more than 600 armor HP. My armor tanker suit without logistics support: 500 armor. My armor tanker suit WITH logistics support: 600 armor. If I completely forget about armor reps, don't have any equipment, and use an advanced weapon, I can get 800 HP. Sounds like a first world problem.
Considering the stats on my Caldari Assault, not at all.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4324
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:04:00 -
[57] - Quote
Sephirian Fair wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Sephirian Fair wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Sephirian Fair wrote:Stopping brick tanking? This hits the pure Shield tankers far more than the dual tanks. I've been running pure Shield Extenders and Regulators since the start of Chromosome. My primary fit doesn't even use a proto weapon so I can fit 4 Shield Extenders and 3 Regulators because it is my favorite style of play. If the penalty is even as high as 5%, CCP just completely fucks over the ones actually using Shields to their initial design as hit and run skirmishers. The Brick tankers don't give a damn about a small added delay. They survive their encounter based on eHP, which isn't changed and just take a little longer to get back to full health.
If regulators aren't buffed in conjunction to this, CCP just again proves how poor at balancing they are. The same mistakes are constantly made with no signs of them ever learning. Actually, my Caldari Assault has a recharge delay of 2 seconds. Considering there is a bug that allows shields to recharge in fire for one pulse every time the delay has passed, it basically recharges more /s than my Gallente Assault with two complex armor reps. And you're running 3 regulators on it. That's how you get 2 seconds, or it is technically 1.9 seconds. 2 regulators is 2.6-2.7 range. A 5% penalty will remove an Enhanced Regulator's worth when using all Shield Extenders. And that's not a bug, that is people missing. If they miss for that 1.9 seconds, you get a pulse of health from it. Unless there is a legitimate bug where the pulsing doesn't stop, then that would need to be reported and dealt with. It pulses, then it waits until the delay has passed, and pulses again. It doesn't care if there is damage. Then report the bug, probably with less vagueness than you are doing here. Nerfing the play style because of the bug doesn't make any sense anyways. The two classes of defense have been fairly equal since armor's last buff and CCP's decision to nerf one class compared to making the distinct playstyle of it more appealing just continues to show how amateurish that are when it comes to balancing their game. This doesn't stop brick tankers. I don't know what about this even comes close. All it does is hurt the pure shield mercs and nearly forces them to brick tank.
I did.
It existed for months now without any confirmation that it's going to be fixed.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
|
Cosgar
ParagonX
8315
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:07:00 -
[58] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:
How about we stop telling each other how to fit our suits? This is why we have the problems we have now. And this is coming from a logi that uses proto equipment, despite any incentive to do so.
Also? Who had a better release? BF4 or Uprising.
"How about we stop telling each other how to fit our suits?" A shield tanker named Cosgar keeps saying that armor suits run with stacked plates. A armor tanker named Cat Merc keeps saying that it isn't viable without logi support, which means team work, which should be more powerful.
Personally, I'm glad neither one of us are devs for this **** game.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Sephirian Fair
0uter.heaven
Proficiency V.
145
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:08:00 -
[59] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:
I did.
It existed for months now without any confirmation that it's going to be fixed.
Do you have any recording devices? Or maybe a corp mate has one? It really seems like video evidence is practically needed for CCP to get their head out of their ass to fix stuff.  |
Sephirian Fair
0uter.heaven
Proficiency V.
145
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:13:00 -
[60] - Quote
OMG. I am a ******* idiot. Holy ****... I just reread the patch notes again...
Added shield extender penalty - stacking slows down the depleted shield recharge delay.
..........Okay, I take back everything I have said thus far. There isn't going to be any change to the hit and run playstyle that I typically do. The depleted recharge delay isn't even half as important as the normal delay. You are completely correct Cat Marc, this hurts Brick Tankers worse than pure Shield tankers. A pure Shield tanker never lets his shield hit 0, therefore the depleted delay is typically irrelevant
Crisis adverted. |
|
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4330
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:22:00 -
[61] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:
How about we stop telling each other how to fit our suits? This is why we have the problems we have now. And this is coming from a logi that uses proto equipment, despite any incentive to do so.
Also? Who had a better release? BF4 or Uprising.
"How about we stop telling each other how to fit our suits?" A shield tanker named Cosgar keeps saying that armor suits run with stacked plates. A armor tanker named Cat Merc keeps saying that it isn't viable without logi support, which means team work, which should be more powerful. Personally, I'm glad neither one of us are devs for this **** game.
That we can agree on.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Cosgar
ParagonX
8318
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:40:00 -
[62] - Quote
Sephirian Fair wrote:OMG. I am a ******* idiot. Holy ****... I just reread the patch notes again...
Added shield extender penalty - stacking slows down the depleted shield recharge delay.
..........Okay, I take back everything I have said thus far. There isn't going to be any change to the hit and run playstyle that I typically do. The depleted recharge delay isn't even half as important as the normal delay. You are completely correct Cat Marc, this hurts Brick Tankers worse than pure Shield tankers. A pure Shield tanker never lets his shield hit 0, therefore the depleted delay is typically irrelevant
Crisis adverted.
Don't worry, just an oversight. They'll make sure it applies to recharge delay too with a hot fix.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
|
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
3688
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:44:00 -
[63] - Quote
Hey, Cat Merc is back. What up?
And yeah I agree this is ultimately a good think as right now all Dust 514 consists of is brick tanking. Penalizing only makes other combinations more viable. Plus it is only for the depleted shield delay, not normal shield delay. If you are going to stack extra shield, try not to get depleted.
Amarr faithful, join PIE Inc, the oldest EVE/Dust Amarr loyal corporation!
Amarr Victor!
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4330
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:46:00 -
[64] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Hey, Cat Merc is back. What up?
And yeah I agree this is ultimately a good think as right now all Dust 514 consists of is brick tanking. Penalizing only makes other combinations more viable. Plus it is only for the depleted shield delay, not normal shield delay. If you are going to stack extra shield, try not to get depleted.
Meow
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
463
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:49:00 -
[65] - Quote
The problem with shields and armor balance right now is that armor with squad support is not just powerful, it can be impossible to defeat in the right circumstances (proto logis with dual beams locked onto proto armor tankers with huge buffer and damage mods).
Aside from covering fire and presenting additional targets, shield tankers get little in terms of squad support that actually helps increase their HP. |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4334
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:49:00 -
[66] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:The problem with shields and armor balance right now is that armor with squad support is not just powerful, it can be impossible to defeat in the right circumstances (proto logis with dual beams locked onto proto armor tankers with huge buffer and damage mods).
THAT is a problem.
Dual beams should be heavily nerfed IMHO.
But the rest seems fine to me.
I could always beat it if I target the logi.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Cyrius Li-Moody
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
1914
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:55:00 -
[67] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Hey, Cat Merc is back. What up?
And yeah I agree this is ultimately a good think as right now all Dust 514 consists of is brick tanking. Penalizing only makes other combinations more viable. Plus it is only for the depleted shield delay, not normal shield delay. If you are going to stack extra shield, try not to get depleted.
As a shield tanker I spend more time depleted, in armor and hiding than with full shields in combat. If I'm seen I'm dead. This is the case with both my assault and my scout.
Saying "try not to get depleted" is easy enough but shields go down way too fast. 2 bullets per complex extender on top of a base 10 second deplete delay on my assault. Sorry but I'm dead in a second even with my highs filled with extenders. My scout suit has 80 armor and less than 300 shields.
All of these changes are minor debuffs to other other suits but Minmatar suits will feel this the absolute worse and we can't even dual tank well.
Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4335
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 22:00:00 -
[68] - Quote
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Hey, Cat Merc is back. What up?
And yeah I agree this is ultimately a good think as right now all Dust 514 consists of is brick tanking. Penalizing only makes other combinations more viable. Plus it is only for the depleted shield delay, not normal shield delay. If you are going to stack extra shield, try not to get depleted. As a shield tanker I spend more time depleted, in armor and hiding than with full shields in combat. If I'm seen I'm dead. This is the case with both my assault and my scout. Saying "try not to get depleted" is easy enough but shields go down way too fast. 2 bullets per complex extender on top of a base 10 second deplete delay on my assault. Sorry but I'm dead in a second even with my highs filled with extenders. My scout suit has 80 armor and less than 300 shields. All of these changes are minor debuffs to other other suits but Minmatar suits will feel this the absolute worse and we can't even dual tank well.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1563772#post1563772
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
|
Cosgar
ParagonX
8319
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 22:02:00 -
[69] - Quote
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Hey, Cat Merc is back. What up?
And yeah I agree this is ultimately a good think as right now all Dust 514 consists of is brick tanking. Penalizing only makes other combinations more viable. Plus it is only for the depleted shield delay, not normal shield delay. If you are going to stack extra shield, try not to get depleted. As a shield tanker I spend more time depleted, in armor and hiding than with full shields in combat. If I'm seen I'm dead. This is the case with both my assault and my scout. Saying "try not to get depleted" is easy enough but shields go down way too fast. 2 bullets per complex extender on top of a base 10 second deplete delay on my assault. Sorry but I'm dead in a second even with my highs filled with extenders. My scout suit has 80 armor and less than 300 shields. All of these changes are minor debuffs to other other suits but Minmatar suits will feel this the absolute worse and we can't even dual tank well.
Especially since a complex extender barely survives 2 AR bullets. Both tanking types need to be looked into. A lot of changes came in before hit detection was fixed and Ina game balanced around bad hit detection, it's time to update.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4335
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 22:03:00 -
[70] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Hey, Cat Merc is back. What up?
And yeah I agree this is ultimately a good think as right now all Dust 514 consists of is brick tanking. Penalizing only makes other combinations more viable. Plus it is only for the depleted shield delay, not normal shield delay. If you are going to stack extra shield, try not to get depleted. As a shield tanker I spend more time depleted, in armor and hiding than with full shields in combat. If I'm seen I'm dead. This is the case with both my assault and my scout. Saying "try not to get depleted" is easy enough but shields go down way too fast. 2 bullets per complex extender on top of a base 10 second deplete delay on my assault. Sorry but I'm dead in a second even with my highs filled with extenders. My scout suit has 80 armor and less than 300 shields. All of these changes are minor debuffs to other other suits but Minmatar suits will feel this the absolute worse and we can't even dual tank well. Especially since a complex extender barely survives 2 AR bullets. Both tanking types need to be looked into. A lot of changes came in before hit detection was fixed and Ina game balanced around bad hit detection, it's time to update.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1563772#post1563772
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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|
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Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
3689
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 22:03:00 -
[71] - Quote
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Hey, Cat Merc is back. What up?
And yeah I agree this is ultimately a good think as right now all Dust 514 consists of is brick tanking. Penalizing only makes other combinations more viable. Plus it is only for the depleted shield delay, not normal shield delay. If you are going to stack extra shield, try not to get depleted. As a shield tanker I spend more time depleted, in armor and hiding than with full shields in combat. If I'm seen I'm dead. This is the case with both my assault and my scout. Saying "try not to get depleted" is easy enough but shields go down way too fast. 2 bullets per complex extender on top of a base 10 second deplete delay on my assault. Sorry but I'm dead in a second even with my highs filled with extenders. My scout suit has 80 armor and less than 300 shields. All of these changes are minor debuffs to other other suits but Minmatar suits will feel this the absolute worse and we can't even dual tank well.
We'll see how it changes when everyone stops using scramblers with 120% effectiveness verse shields and move onto the new rifles which are both armor oriented. Also a lot of it is playstyles with the two hp types. Armor tanking is for full frontal assaults where you stand and take it, where as shields are more of a hit and run style approach. I sense a lot of shield tankers want to play like armor tankers, and in that case the shield depleted delay penalty will be very bad for them. Shield tankers will need to adapt their playstyle or switch tanking styles.
Not saying you are wrong, this penalty may be overboard, but I don't believe there is enough of an argument to quickly change it back at this moment. Let's let the update roll out and see how things go and adjust from there.
Amarr faithful, join PIE Inc, the oldest EVE/Dust Amarr loyal corporation!
Amarr Victor!
|
Cyrius Li-Moody
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
1918
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 22:03:00 -
[72] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Hey, Cat Merc is back. What up?
And yeah I agree this is ultimately a good think as right now all Dust 514 consists of is brick tanking. Penalizing only makes other combinations more viable. Plus it is only for the depleted shield delay, not normal shield delay. If you are going to stack extra shield, try not to get depleted. As a shield tanker I spend more time depleted, in armor and hiding than with full shields in combat. If I'm seen I'm dead. This is the case with both my assault and my scout. Saying "try not to get depleted" is easy enough but shields go down way too fast. 2 bullets per complex extender on top of a base 10 second deplete delay on my assault. Sorry but I'm dead in a second even with my highs filled with extenders. My scout suit has 80 armor and less than 300 shields. All of these changes are minor debuffs to other other suits but Minmatar suits will feel this the absolute worse and we can't even dual tank well. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1563772#post1563772
Are you telling me to spec into gallente or caldari? 
Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
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Kane Fyea
2316
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 22:03:00 -
[73] - Quote
This is a small nerf to my Amarr Assault. |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4335
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 22:04:00 -
[74] - Quote
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Hey, Cat Merc is back. What up?
And yeah I agree this is ultimately a good think as right now all Dust 514 consists of is brick tanking. Penalizing only makes other combinations more viable. Plus it is only for the depleted shield delay, not normal shield delay. If you are going to stack extra shield, try not to get depleted. As a shield tanker I spend more time depleted, in armor and hiding than with full shields in combat. If I'm seen I'm dead. This is the case with both my assault and my scout. Saying "try not to get depleted" is easy enough but shields go down way too fast. 2 bullets per complex extender on top of a base 10 second deplete delay on my assault. Sorry but I'm dead in a second even with my highs filled with extenders. My scout suit has 80 armor and less than 300 shields. All of these changes are minor debuffs to other other suits but Minmatar suits will feel this the absolute worse and we can't even dual tank well. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1563772#post1563772 Are you telling me to spec into gallente or caldari?
I'm telling you that after the nerf, both are an equally good option.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
|
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
3689
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 22:04:00 -
[75] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:
Especially since a complex extender barely survives 2 AR bullets. Both tanking types need to be looked into. A lot of changes came in before hit detection was fixed and Ina game balanced around bad hit detection, it's time to update.
Completely agree and I am all in favor or buffing HP values for suits and modules in recognition of the improved hit detection.
Amarr faithful, join PIE Inc, the oldest EVE/Dust Amarr loyal corporation!
Amarr Victor!
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4335
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 22:07:00 -
[76] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Cosgar wrote:
Especially since a complex extender barely survives 2 AR bullets. Both tanking types need to be looked into. A lot of changes came in before hit detection was fixed and Ina game balanced around bad hit detection, it's time to update.
Completely agree and I am all in favor or buffing HP values for suits and modules in recognition of the improved hit detection.
I agree with that.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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BMSTUBBY
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
419
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Posted - 2013.12.04 22:09:00 -
[77] - Quote
Soldiersaint wrote:Cat Merc wrote:It's a step.
You now need to fit regulators in your low slots to have quickly regenerating shields, no more armor plates. Ha thats what you think. Defensive players wont have any problems with this at all. The only people who are going to suffer are you run n gun rambo guys who think every one should always be out in the open. Battle brothers like me who actually have a brain will make sure to stay by cover and have other battle brothers nearby to back them up.
Off topic.
When you talk about the other people that you pew pew with in a video game saying things like "Battle brothers" just sounds so..............well you know.
Just some advice how bout drop the weekend video game warrior words like "Battle brothers".
Okay sorry bout that not carry on with the whole OMG CCP has F*cked up this game blah, blah, blah, stuff.
Dusters - MMO WhenGäó ?
CCP - MMO SoonGäó .
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Cosgar
ParagonX
8319
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 22:09:00 -
[78] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Hey, Cat Merc is back. What up?
And yeah I agree this is ultimately a good think as right now all Dust 514 consists of is brick tanking. Penalizing only makes other combinations more viable. Plus it is only for the depleted shield delay, not normal shield delay. If you are going to stack extra shield, try not to get depleted. As a shield tanker I spend more time depleted, in armor and hiding than with full shields in combat. If I'm seen I'm dead. This is the case with both my assault and my scout. Saying "try not to get depleted" is easy enough but shields go down way too fast. 2 bullets per complex extender on top of a base 10 second deplete delay on my assault. Sorry but I'm dead in a second even with my highs filled with extenders. My scout suit has 80 armor and less than 300 shields. All of these changes are minor debuffs to other other suits but Minmatar suits will feel this the absolute worse and we can't even dual tank well. Especially since a complex extender barely survives 2 AR bullets. Both tanking types need to be looked into. A lot of changes came in before hit detection was fixed and Ina game balanced around bad hit detection, it's time to update. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1563772#post1563772
Try that with a Mk.0 and get back to me.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4338
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 22:13:00 -
[79] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Hey, Cat Merc is back. What up?
And yeah I agree this is ultimately a good think as right now all Dust 514 consists of is brick tanking. Penalizing only makes other combinations more viable. Plus it is only for the depleted shield delay, not normal shield delay. If you are going to stack extra shield, try not to get depleted. As a shield tanker I spend more time depleted, in armor and hiding than with full shields in combat. If I'm seen I'm dead. This is the case with both my assault and my scout. Saying "try not to get depleted" is easy enough but shields go down way too fast. 2 bullets per complex extender on top of a base 10 second deplete delay on my assault. Sorry but I'm dead in a second even with my highs filled with extenders. My scout suit has 80 armor and less than 300 shields. All of these changes are minor debuffs to other other suits but Minmatar suits will feel this the absolute worse and we can't even dual tank well. Especially since a complex extender barely survives 2 AR bullets. Both tanking types need to be looked into. A lot of changes came in before hit detection was fixed and Ina game balanced around bad hit detection, it's time to update. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1563772#post1563772 Try that with a Mk.0 and get back to me.
That's a general suit problem.
If it will be a problem in 1.7 it was a problem before 1.7.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Cosgar
ParagonX
8319
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 22:18:00 -
[80] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Cosgar wrote:
Especially since a complex extender barely survives 2 AR bullets. Both tanking types need to be looked into. A lot of changes came in before hit detection was fixed and Ina game balanced around bad hit detection, it's time to update.
Completely agree and I am all in favor of buffing HP values for suits and modules in recognition of the improved hit detection.
That only band-aids the issue. We need to rethink damage profiles and the falloff system. Just thinking about the falloff, I would say give plasma/EM a hard cap, but the ability to deal consistent damage until the cap while rail/kinetics keep the current system with a more drastic falloff than we have now. Not sure how to adjust damage profiles, but for starters we need to fix armor tanking's lack of incentive to equip anything in their high slots other than damage mods, reinforce burst and passive tanking for shields and kick/dispersion for weapons. Everything right now is pretty broken.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cosgar
ParagonX
8320
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 22:22:00 -
[81] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:If it will be a problem in 1.7 it was a problem before 1.7.
Will you finally agree that shields were only better than armor because armor made them look better?
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4339
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 22:27:00 -
[82] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:If it will be a problem in 1.7 it was a problem before 1.7. Will you finally agree that shields were only better than armor because armor made them look better?
Well...
That kinda contradicts itself.
When someone says shields are better, he means better than armor.
When someone says armor is better, he means better than shields.
Tanking in general needs a rework, infact I say rebuild infantry from scratch like they have with vehicles.
Strip down everything and bring it back to the core, suits, weapons, modules, etc'.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Rei Shepard
The Rainbow Effect
1277
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 22:49:00 -
[83] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Move damage mods to low slots and armor/shield will be balanced then.
Not really...it would just be moving the problem around, damage mods need to be on the gun, not the suit.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
"Accuracy"
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Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
2745
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 22:52:00 -
[84] - Quote
I almost never use armor plates and I see the problem, even now the shield regs are under preforming.
Sinboto - The True Blood Minja
Forum Warrior level 2
STB-Infantry (Demolition)
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Cosgar
ParagonX
8324
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 23:14:00 -
[85] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:If it will be a problem in 1.7 it was a problem before 1.7. Will you finally agree that shields were only better than armor because armor made them look better? Well... That kinda contradicts itself. When someone says shields are better, he means better than armor. When someone says armor is better, he means better than shields. Tanking in general needs a rework, infact I say rebuild infantry from scratch like they have with vehicles. Strip down everything and bring it back to the core, suits, weapons, modules, etc'.
You're thinking of Chromosome when skills affect your character over their fitting. There was a disparity between shields and armor but they tried to balance it based on SP by giving shields higher modifiers. You had to have sufficient levels in recharging and (I think) extenders before you could even think about increasing your max shields. Armor was only a 1x modifier that you could max in a day when you made a new character. But armor didn't have the crazy prerequisites that shields had.
When Uprising came out, both skills had the same modifier and prerequisites. I admit plates underperformed, but recharge/regulation underperformed as well. Suits don't have a low enough recharge delay/depletion to work well with the hit and run tactics everyone thinks they have. They're self sustainable with shorter downtimes than self armor repair at best, but not snout to ever make a Caldari assault/logi or Minmatar assault use rechargers/energizers over simply stacking extenders and plates. This advantage you say shields have isn't there, it never was plainly because plates weren't good enough at the time.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Keri Starlight
0uter.Heaven
Proficiency V.
1734
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 23:18:00 -
[86] - Quote
LOLOL, for me it's the exact opposite!
Why should I waste a module slot to get back what I have right now when I can just tank HP? Armor and Shields are no longer different, both are slow as hell, but at least you can sit on a nanohive!
Just tank as much HP as you can, regeneration is now even more useless!
Welcome omni-tanking!
HP Tank 514!
"I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4341
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 23:18:00 -
[87] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:If it will be a problem in 1.7 it was a problem before 1.7. Will you finally agree that shields were only better than armor because armor made them look better? Well... That kinda contradicts itself. When someone says shields are better, he means better than armor. When someone says armor is better, he means better than shields. Tanking in general needs a rework, infact I say rebuild infantry from scratch like they have with vehicles. Strip down everything and bring it back to the core, suits, weapons, modules, etc'. You're thinking of Chromosome when skills affect your character over their fitting. There was a disparity between shields and armor but they tried to balance it based on SP by giving shields higher modifiers. You had to have sufficient levels in recharging and (I think) extenders before you could even think about increasing your max shields. Armor was only a 1x modifier that you could max in a day when you made a new character. But armor didn't have the crazy prerequisites that shields had. When Uprising came out, both skills had the same modifier and prerequisites. I admit plates underperformed, but recharge/regulation underperformed as well. Suits don't have a low enough recharge delay/depletion to work well with the hit and run tactics everyone thinks they have. They're self sustainable with shorter downtimes than self armor repair at best, but not snout to ever make a Caldari assault/logi or Minmatar assault use rechargers/energizers over simply stacking extenders and plates. This advantage you say shields have isn't there, it never was plainly because plates weren't good enough at the time.
2.8 seconds while maintaining very similar eHP to the Gallente suit isn't enough?
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Cosgar
ParagonX
8324
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 23:26:00 -
[88] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:If it will be a problem in 1.7 it was a problem before 1.7. Will you finally agree that shields were only better than armor because armor made them look better? Well... That kinda contradicts itself. When someone says shields are better, he means better than armor. When someone says armor is better, he means better than shields. Tanking in general needs a rework, infact I say rebuild infantry from scratch like they have with vehicles. Strip down everything and bring it back to the core, suits, weapons, modules, etc'. You're thinking of Chromosome when skills affect your character over their fitting. There was a disparity between shields and armor but they tried to balance it based on SP by giving shields higher modifiers. You had to have sufficient levels in recharging and (I think) extenders before you could even think about increasing your max shields. Armor was only a 1x modifier that you could max in a day when you made a new character. But armor didn't have the crazy prerequisites that shields had. When Uprising came out, both skills had the same modifier and prerequisites. I admit plates underperformed, but recharge/regulation underperformed as well. Suits don't have a low enough recharge delay/depletion to work well with the hit and run tactics everyone thinks they have. They're self sustainable with shorter downtimes than self armor repair at best, but not snout to ever make a Caldari assault/logi or Minmatar assault use rechargers/energizers over simply stacking extenders and plates. This advantage you say shields have isn't there, it never was plainly because plates weren't good enough at the time. 2.8 seconds while maintaining very similar eHP to the Gallente suit isn't enough?
ScRs,ARs, and flux grenades don't blamp armor.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4342
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 23:31:00 -
[89] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:
ScRs,ARs, and flux grenades don't blamp armor.
RR, CR and Core Locus.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Boot Booter
Omega Elite Mercs INC.
195
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 23:42:00 -
[90] - Quote
Sephirian Fair wrote:Stopping brick tanking? This hits the pure Shield tankers far more than the dual tanks. I've been running pure Shield Extenders and Regulators since the start of Chromosome. My primary fit doesn't even use a proto weapon so I can fit 4 Shield Extenders and 3 Regulators because it is my favorite style of play. If the penalty is even as high as 5%, CCP just completely fucks over the ones actually using Shields to their initial design as hit and run skirmishers. The Brick tankers don't give a damn about a small added delay. They survive their encounter based on eHP, which isn't changed and just take a little longer to get back to full health.
If regulators aren't buffed in conjunction to this, CCP just again proves how poor at balancing they are. The same mistakes are constantly made with no signs of them ever learning.
Yup now how would you feel if I said the Caldari assault doesn't get a bonus to shield extenders efficiency, gets a much lower natural shield recharge, delay, and depleted delay. Oh and one more thing the Caldari gets the lowest base HP in exchange for a miniscule speed increase. Yeah and for fun let's tack on a penalty for shield extender stacking.
Welcome to the world of minmatar assault.
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2724
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 23:46:00 -
[91] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:It's a step. You now need to fit regulators in your low slots to have quickly regenerating shields, no more armor plates. Sephirian Fair wrote:OMG. I am a ******* idiot. Holy ****... I just reread the patch notes again...
Added shield extender penalty - stacking slows down the depleted shield recharge delay.
..........Okay, I take back everything I have said thus far. There isn't going to be any change to the hit and run playstyle that I typically do. The depleted recharge delay isn't even half as important as the normal delay. You are completely correct Cat Marc, this hurts Brick Tankers worse than pure Shield tankers. A pure Shield tanker never lets his shield hit 0, therefore the depleted delay is typically irrelevant
Crisis adverted.
You had way too much Catnip.
This is NOT a STEP FOWARD ANYTHING.
This just consolidates ARMOR tanking even more.As the best way to play this game, if not the ONLY.
ARMOR tank + Complex Damage mods (instead of Shield extenders) Are now the only smart way to go.
who in their right minds will Have a 450 shield with good delay and recharge over 700 Armor with 12-18 Armor rep? Plus nanohives that recharge armor?
NO ONE.
Support SCOUTS : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=124408&find=unread
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4342
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 23:55:00 -
[92] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Cat Merc wrote:It's a step. You now need to fit regulators in your low slots to have quickly regenerating shields, no more armor plates. Sephirian Fair wrote:OMG. I am a ******* idiot. Holy ****... I just reread the patch notes again...
Added shield extender penalty - stacking slows down the depleted shield recharge delay.
..........Okay, I take back everything I have said thus far. There isn't going to be any change to the hit and run playstyle that I typically do. The depleted recharge delay isn't even half as important as the normal delay. You are completely correct Cat Marc, this hurts Brick Tankers worse than pure Shield tankers. A pure Shield tanker never lets his shield hit 0, therefore the depleted delay is typically irrelevant
Crisis adverted. You had way too much Catnip.This is NOT a STEP FOWARD ANYTHING.This just consolidates ARMOR tanking even more.As the best way to play this game, if not the ONLY. ARMOR tank + Complex Damage mods (instead of Shield extenders) Are now the only smart way to go. who in their right minds will Have a 450 shield with good delay and recharge over 700 Armor with 12-18 Armor rep? Plus nanohives that recharge armor? NO ONE.
That's logistics checkmate.
An Assault can't even DREAM about it.
I said it time and time again, logistics are the issue.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Cosgar
ParagonX
8326
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 23:58:00 -
[93] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:
ScRs,ARs, and flux grenades don't blamp armor.
RR, CR and Core Locus.
Two of which aren't even out yet and grenades are stupid OP with little discrimination.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4344
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 00:00:00 -
[94] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:
ScRs,ARs, and flux grenades don't blamp armor.
RR, CR and Core Locus. Two of which aren't even out yet and grenades are stupid OP with little discrimination.
Nobody uses Fluxes, grenades are stupid OP as you said.
And so what if they aren't out yet?
When is the nerf coming out?
When the anit armor weapons hit.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2725
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 00:03:00 -
[95] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Cat Merc wrote:It's a step. You now need to fit regulators in your low slots to have quickly regenerating shields, no more armor plates. Sephirian Fair wrote:OMG. I am a ******* idiot. Holy ****... I just reread the patch notes again...
Added shield extender penalty - stacking slows down the depleted shield recharge delay.
..........Okay, I take back everything I have said thus far. There isn't going to be any change to the hit and run playstyle that I typically do. The depleted recharge delay isn't even half as important as the normal delay. You are completely correct Cat Marc, this hurts Brick Tankers worse than pure Shield tankers. A pure Shield tanker never lets his shield hit 0, therefore the depleted delay is typically irrelevant
Crisis adverted. You had way too much Catnip.This is NOT a STEP FOWARD ANYTHING.This just consolidates ARMOR tanking even more.As the best way to play this game, if not the ONLY. ARMOR tank + Complex Damage mods (instead of Shield extenders) Are now the only smart way to go. who in their right minds will Have a 450 shield with good delay and recharge over 700 Armor with 12-18 Armor rep? Plus nanohives that recharge armor? NO ONE. That's logistics checkmate. An Assault can't even DREAM about it. I said it time and time again, logistics are the issue.
Well after 1.7 IS there any other dropsuit type?
Because all i see is my soon to be Amarr Logi Ak..0 ....
Support SCOUTS : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=124408&find=unread
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4344
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 00:05:00 -
[96] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Cat Merc wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Cat Merc wrote:It's a step. You now need to fit regulators in your low slots to have quickly regenerating shields, no more armor plates. Sephirian Fair wrote:OMG. I am a ******* idiot. Holy ****... I just reread the patch notes again...
Added shield extender penalty - stacking slows down the depleted shield recharge delay.
..........Okay, I take back everything I have said thus far. There isn't going to be any change to the hit and run playstyle that I typically do. The depleted recharge delay isn't even half as important as the normal delay. You are completely correct Cat Marc, this hurts Brick Tankers worse than pure Shield tankers. A pure Shield tanker never lets his shield hit 0, therefore the depleted delay is typically irrelevant
Crisis adverted. You had way too much Catnip.This is NOT a STEP FOWARD ANYTHING.This just consolidates ARMOR tanking even more.As the best way to play this game, if not the ONLY. ARMOR tank + Complex Damage mods (instead of Shield extenders) Are now the only smart way to go. who in their right minds will Have a 450 shield with good delay and recharge over 700 Armor with 12-18 Armor rep? Plus nanohives that recharge armor? NO ONE. That's logistics checkmate. An Assault can't even DREAM about it. I said it time and time again, logistics are the issue. Well after 1.7 IS there any other dropsuit type? Because all i see is my soon to be Amarr Logi Ak..0 ....
Logistics are a problem bud, don't bring down armor with it.
*Sniff* My poor Gallente Assault is finally useful 
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
5795
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 00:06:00 -
[97] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Cat Merc wrote:It's a step. You now need to fit regulators in your low slots to have quickly regenerating shields, no more armor plates. Sephirian Fair wrote:OMG. I am a ******* idiot. Holy ****... I just reread the patch notes again...
Added shield extender penalty - stacking slows down the depleted shield recharge delay.
..........Okay, I take back everything I have said thus far. There isn't going to be any change to the hit and run playstyle that I typically do. The depleted recharge delay isn't even half as important as the normal delay. You are completely correct Cat Marc, this hurts Brick Tankers worse than pure Shield tankers. A pure Shield tanker never lets his shield hit 0, therefore the depleted delay is typically irrelevant
Crisis adverted. You had way too much Catnip.This is NOT a STEP FOWARD ANYTHING.This just consolidates ARMOR tanking even more.As the best way to play this game, if not the ONLY. ARMOR tank + Complex Damage mods (instead of Shield extenders) Are now the only smart way to go. who in their right minds will Have a 450 shield with good delay and recharge over 700 Armor with 12-18 Armor rep? Plus nanohives that recharge armor? NO ONE.
Consider what armour tanking values an assault suit can achieve, then look at the logistics suit.
Is armour tanking really the problem? Or is it the logistics suit?
Level 5 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Supporter of CCP raRaRa.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
5795
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 00:08:00 -
[98] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:
ScRs,ARs, and flux grenades don't blamp armor.
RR, CR and Core Locus. Two of which aren't even out yet and grenades are stupid OP with little discrimination.
Two of which are coming out in less than a week, and one of which is plenty enough to counter armour on its own.
And if you're discounting one of those because it's OP, how come you're not discounting the AR and SCR? I've seen dozens of posts from you bitching about the AR being OP.
Level 5 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Supporter of CCP raRaRa.
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Meeko Fent
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
1703
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 00:09:00 -
[99] - Quote
I have zero issues with a penalty for extenders.
What I DO have an issue with, is that now we need to fit regs, therefore no plates, therefore a slight HP buff should be given.
10 HP seems not OP.
Refunding a few AUR militia Blueprints pertaining to vehicles because their respective modules will not exist anymore
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
5797
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 00:11:00 -
[100] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:I have zero issues with a penalty for extenders.
What I DO have an issue with, is that now we need to fit regs, therefore no plates, therefore a slight HP buff should be given.
10 HP seems not OP.
You don't need to fit regulators. You don't even know how much the penalty is yet - and it's only for depleted shields.
Level 5 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Supporter of CCP raRaRa.
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Cosgar
ParagonX
8327
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 00:11:00 -
[101] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:
ScRs,ARs, and flux grenades don't blamp armor.
RR, CR and Core Locus. Two of which aren't even out yet and grenades are stupid OP with little discrimination. Nobody uses Fluxes, grenades are stupid OP as you said. And so what if they aren't out yet? When is the nerf coming out? When the anit armor weapons hit.
Going to be hard to tell a difference when everyone just armor tanks. At least my core breach MD will have a field day.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4344
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 00:12:00 -
[102] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:
ScRs,ARs, and flux grenades don't blamp armor.
RR, CR and Core Locus. Two of which aren't even out yet and grenades are stupid OP with little discrimination. Nobody uses Fluxes, grenades are stupid OP as you said. And so what if they aren't out yet? When is the nerf coming out? When the anit armor weapons hit. Going to be hard to tell a difference when everyone just armor tanks. At least my core breach MD will have a field day.
I doubt everyone will armor tank when everyone I see in PC matches right now shield tanks.
Literally, everyone.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Broonfondle Majikthies
Bannana Boat Corp
Relentless Heroes Alliance
552
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 00:13:00 -
[103] - Quote
I keep hoping this is a joke.
Giving us the shield stacking penalty we needed back when shield tanked Cal's ruled the battlefield but now almost totally useless.
Still incomplete line up of racial suits
I love the new rifles and the FW looks great but its not the huge event it was gearing up for.
Honestly the only conceivable way I can see this working is if the shields available in the LP store will have no stacking penalty.
Or there's more stuff but CCP wants to surprise us.
"...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4344
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 00:15:00 -
[104] - Quote
Broonfondle Majikthies wrote:I keep hoping this is a joke.
Giving us the shield stacking penalty we needed back when shield tanked Cal's ruled the battlefield but now almost totally useless.
Still incomplete line up of racial suits
I love the new rifles and the FW looks great but its not the huge event it was gearing up for.
Honestly the only conceivable way I can see this working is if the shields available in the LP store will have no stacking penalty.
Or there's more stuff but CCP wants to surprise us.
What stacking penalty?
There is a stacking penalty to the downside, so each time the downside removes less recharge rate.
But there is no stacking penalty to the shields.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Meeko Fent
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
1703
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 00:16:00 -
[105] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:I have zero issues with a penalty for extenders.
What I DO have an issue with, is that now we need to fit regs, therefore no plates, therefore a slight HP buff should be given.
10 HP seems not OP. You don't need to fit regulators. You don't even know how much the penalty is yet - and it's only for depleted shields.
How often has 300-350 HP last you through a firefight?
It hurts standard suits quite a bit.
Refunding a few AUR militia Blueprints pertaining to vehicles because their respective modules will not exist anymore
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Cenex Langly
0uter.Heaven
Proficiency V.
457
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Posted - 2013.12.05 00:19:00 -
[106] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Move damage mods to low slots and armor/shield will be balanced then.
They are on the low slots in EVE. But I agree. Either do a crazy tank or crazy damage. Not both. Having those mods on low slots will make shields/armor balanced for sure.
Newb
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Broonfondle Majikthies
Bannana Boat Corp
Relentless Heroes Alliance
552
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Posted - 2013.12.05 00:20:00 -
[107] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Broonfondle Majikthies wrote:I keep hoping this is a joke.
Giving us the shield stacking penalty we needed back when shield tanked Cal's ruled the battlefield but now almost totally useless.
Still incomplete line up of racial suits
I love the new rifles and the FW looks great but its not the huge event it was gearing up for.
Honestly the only conceivable way I can see this working is if the shields available in the LP store will have no stacking penalty.
Or there's more stuff but CCP wants to surprise us. What stacking penalty? There is a stacking penalty to the downside, so each time the downside removes less recharge rate. But there is no stacking penalty to the shields.
CCP Logibro wrote: Added shield extender penalty - stacking slows down the depleted shield recharge delay.
"...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4344
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Posted - 2013.12.05 00:23:00 -
[108] - Quote
Broonfondle Majikthies wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Broonfondle Majikthies wrote:I keep hoping this is a joke.
Giving us the shield stacking penalty we needed back when shield tanked Cal's ruled the battlefield but now almost totally useless.
Still incomplete line up of racial suits
I love the new rifles and the FW looks great but its not the huge event it was gearing up for.
Honestly the only conceivable way I can see this working is if the shields available in the LP store will have no stacking penalty.
Or there's more stuff but CCP wants to surprise us. What stacking penalty? There is a stacking penalty to the downside, so each time the downside removes less recharge rate. But there is no stacking penalty to the shields. CCP Logibro wrote: Added shield extender penalty - stacking slows down the depleted shield recharge delay.
You're reading it wrong.
It just means that the more shield extenders you put on, the higher your recharge delay is.
It doesn't have a negative stacking penalty like with damage mods, where the effect becomes weaker each time.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Cosgar
ParagonX
8327
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Posted - 2013.12.05 00:25:00 -
[109] - Quote
Cenex Langly wrote:Cosgar wrote:Move damage mods to low slots and armor/shield will be balanced then. They are on the low slots in EVE. But I agree. Either do a crazy tank or crazy damage. Not both. Having those mods on low slots will make shields/armor balanced for sure.
Exactly! This is why we need some modules shifted and active EWAR debuff/buff modules in high slots. Like I said earlier armor tankers use damage mods because there's nothing else to put there.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4344
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Posted - 2013.12.05 00:27:00 -
[110] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Cenex Langly wrote:Cosgar wrote:Move damage mods to low slots and armor/shield will be balanced then. They are on the low slots in EVE. But I agree. Either do a crazy tank or crazy damage. Not both. Having those mods on low slots will make shields/armor balanced for sure. Exactly! This is why we need some modules shifted and active EWAR debuff/buff modules in high slots. Like I said earlier armor tankers use damage mods because there's nothing else to put there.
There's a catch Cosgar.
Armor tankers don't actually stack plates like shield users stack extenders.
Unless behind logi support, it simply isn't viable, your suit will get decimated after your first engagement.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Broonfondle Majikthies
Bannana Boat Corp
Relentless Heroes Alliance
552
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Posted - 2013.12.05 00:29:00 -
[111] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Broonfondle Majikthies wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Broonfondle Majikthies wrote:I keep hoping this is a joke.
Giving us the shield stacking penalty we needed back when shield tanked Cal's ruled the battlefield but now almost totally useless.
Still incomplete line up of racial suits
I love the new rifles and the FW looks great but its not the huge event it was gearing up for.
Honestly the only conceivable way I can see this working is if the shields available in the LP store will have no stacking penalty.
Or there's more stuff but CCP wants to surprise us. What stacking penalty? There is a stacking penalty to the downside, so each time the downside removes less recharge rate. But there is no stacking penalty to the shields. CCP Logibro wrote: Added shield extender penalty - stacking slows down the depleted shield recharge delay. You're reading it wrong. It just means that the more shield extenders you put on, the higher your recharge delay is. It doesn't have a negative stacking penalty like with damage mods, where the effect becomes weaker each time.
Look I'll level with you. I'm tired and my dyslexia is acting up.
I understand it as the more shields you stack, the longer it takes for the shields to start to come back. Its cumulative. Not exponential. That is what I'm saying
"...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4344
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Posted - 2013.12.05 00:33:00 -
[112] - Quote
Broonfondle Majikthies wrote:
Look I'll level with you. I'm tired and my dyslexia is acting up.
I understand it as the more shields you stack, the longer it takes for the shields to start to come back. Its cumulative. Not exponential. That is what I'm saying
To be fair it's nearly 3AM for me, so I unerstand you.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Cosgar
ParagonX
8329
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Posted - 2013.12.05 00:42:00 -
[113] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Cenex Langly wrote:Cosgar wrote:Move damage mods to low slots and armor/shield will be balanced then. They are on the low slots in EVE. But I agree. Either do a crazy tank or crazy damage. Not both. Having those mods on low slots will make shields/armor balanced for sure. Exactly! This is why we need some modules shifted and active EWAR debuff/buff modules in high slots. Like I said earlier armor tankers use damage mods because there's nothing else to put there. There's a catch Cosgar. Armor tankers don't actually stack plates like shield users stack extenders. Unless behind logi support, it simply isn't viable, your suit will get decimated after your first engagement.
And shields don't have the HP ceiling or recharge/regulator module rates for hit and run tactics. Like I said, both suck right now, even after the armor buff.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4344
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Posted - 2013.12.05 00:45:00 -
[114] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Cenex Langly wrote:Cosgar wrote:Move damage mods to low slots and armor/shield will be balanced then. They are on the low slots in EVE. But I agree. Either do a crazy tank or crazy damage. Not both. Having those mods on low slots will make shields/armor balanced for sure. Exactly! This is why we need some modules shifted and active EWAR debuff/buff modules in high slots. Like I said earlier armor tankers use damage mods because there's nothing else to put there. There's a catch Cosgar. Armor tankers don't actually stack plates like shield users stack extenders. Unless behind logi support, it simply isn't viable, your suit will get decimated after your first engagement. And shields don't have the HP ceiling or recharge/regulator module rates for hit and run tactics. Like I said, both suck right now, even after the armor buff.
500 shields isn't enough?
That's how much HP I rock on my Gallente Assault and I do great.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2727
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Posted - 2013.12.05 00:50:00 -
[115] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Logistics are a problem bud, don't bring down armor with it. *Sniff* My poor Gallente Assault is finally useful
Your Gallente Assault being cr*p compared to logis does not mean armor is Balanced.
Talking Armor vs Shields specificly, Armor is Broken and OP.
Same as your GAl assault, many other Assaults are underpowered, but balance means thinking what EVERY suit might do with certain module.And ATM Logis are abusing it, to an extent where the least i've ever seen a Proto Logi is 350 Armors, on a minmatar logi. (Because even Cal Logi packs 400+)
So your Gal Assault sucks ?
Well its it a regular dropsuit, and it needs a buff in order to compete with logi suits.
But armor plates need FIX.Either nerf to previous Speed Penalties, or a Buff to shields.
Support SCOUTS : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=124408&find=unread
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Xocoyol Zaraoul
Superior Genetics
1578
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Posted - 2013.12.05 00:54:00 -
[116] - Quote
Sounds like armor versus shields is fine, it's the logis that need tweaking... Always goes back to logis...
Closed Beta Vet
Reading the forums detracts from overall enjoyment of the game
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ReGnYuM
Vindictive State
1431
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Posted - 2013.12.05 00:58:00 -
[117] - Quote
LoL I am one of the few players who still uses regulators, and there is reason why people switched to armour.
If you never heard of ReGnYuM, you're neither Good or Relevant in Dust 514.
KDR>ALL
Sig Move: Minmatar Crub Stomp
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Cosgar
ParagonX
8329
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Posted - 2013.12.05 01:07:00 -
[118] - Quote
Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:Sounds like armor versus shields is fine, it's the logis that need tweaking... Always goes back to logis...
It's core mechanics, stop straw manning the issue.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Zahle Undt
Unkn0wn Killers
Renegade Alliance
497
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Posted - 2013.12.05 01:17:00 -
[119] - Quote
For ****'s sake I'm already putting 2 enhanced armor plates on my proto minmatar assault because TTK is so much lower in this game and now shields are taking another hit? I know for all of beta shields were better than armor, but why does CCP now have to swing so far in the other direction? |
KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2729
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Posted - 2013.12.05 01:34:00 -
[120] - Quote
Im actually considering Using An Assault Ak.0 With only Armor plates and REpair Hives now to avoid using shield Extenders....
Support SCOUTS : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=124408&find=unread
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2164
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Posted - 2013.12.05 01:38:00 -
[121] - Quote
Sephirian Fair wrote:Stopping brick tanking? This hits the pure Shield tankers far more than the dual tanks. I've been running pure Shield Extenders and Regulators since the start of Chromosome. My primary fit doesn't even use a proto weapon so I can fit 4 Shield Extenders and 3 Regulators because it is my favorite style of play. If the penalty is even as high as 5%, CCP just completely fucks over the ones actually using Shields to their initial design as hit and run skirmishers. The Brick tankers don't give a damn about a small added delay. They survive their encounter based on eHP, which isn't changed and just take a little longer to get back to full health.
If regulators aren't buffed in conjunction to this, CCP just again proves how poor at balancing they are. The same mistakes are constantly made with no signs of them ever learning.
You hit the nail on the head. If this was attempt to rein in brick tankers it'll be as effective as taking 50 CPU from a Calogi in an attempt to make them fit equipment.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
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SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
548
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Posted - 2013.12.05 02:38:00 -
[122] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:One basic armor plate is not only easier to fit than a complex regulator for a shield tanker, but it is twice as effective.
In this build, I'd still have that opinion even if the Complex Regulator was buffed to 85%.
I think everyone knows how ridiculous basic plates are.
"Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)"
GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4349
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Posted - 2013.12.05 02:39:00 -
[123] - Quote
SponkSponkSponk wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:One basic armor plate is not only easier to fit than a complex regulator for a shield tanker, but it is twice as effective.
In this build, I'd still have that opinion even if the Complex Regulator was buffed to 85%.
I think everyone knows how ridiculous basic plates are.
I agree with that actually.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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