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The shield nerf is a step towards eliminating brick tanking

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Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4319	Posted - 2013.12.04 20:01:00 - [1] - Quote It's a step. You now need to fit regulators in your low slots to have quickly regenerating shields, no more armor plates. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4321	Posted - 2013.12.04 20:38:00 - [2] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Move damage mods to low slots and armor/shield will be balanced then. How exactly will it be balanced? Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4321	Posted - 2013.12.04 20:39:00 - [3] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Because Minmatar assaults and scouts are doing a lot of brick tanking. They were hit wrongly. Which is why I think they need a reduced base recharge delay. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4321	Posted - 2013.12.04 20:41:00 - [4] - Quote Parson Atreides wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Cat Merc wrote: It's a step. You now need to fit regulators in your low slots to have quickly regenerating shields, no more armor plates. I can see your point, but aren't even the caldari now using armor plates because of lol TTK? ^This. Shield Regulators are so pathetically bad compared to adding more health with an armor plate that it's pointless to bother with them. The penalty to the delay better be incredibly low considering the small penalty you get for adding armor (which gives a lot more HP than shield extenders). You are comparing speed to recharge delay. These can't be directly compared. Now, yes plates give more HP, but armor doesn't have a base recharge and needs to fit armor repairers. One complex repairer is **** slow. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4321	Posted - 2013.12.04 20:43:00 - [5] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Because Minmatar assaults and scouts are doing a lot of brick tanking. They were hit wrongly. Which is why I think they need a reduced base recharge delay. Don't scouts already HAVE that? I thought that was one of their (few) bonuses? Was talking more about Minmatar assaults. However, scouts will need it too, just less so. (Because of the way % work) Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4321	Posted - 2013.12.04 20:48:00 - [6] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Parson Atreides wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Cat Merc wrote: It's a step. You now need to fit regulators in your low slots to have quickly regenerating shields, no more armor plates. I can see your point, but aren't even the caldari now using armor plates because of lol TTK? ^This. Shield Regulators are so pathetically bad compared to adding more health with an armor plate that it's pointless to bother with them. The penalty to the delay better be incredibly low considering the small penalty you get for adding armor (which gives a lot more HP than shield extenders). You are comparing speed to recharge delay. These can't be directly compared. Now, yes plates give more HP, but armor doesn't have a base recharge and needs to fit armor repairers. One complex repairer is **** slow. Local Armor reps are actually meant more for Shield Tankers, so they can patch up the small amount of damage that might leak through when they're abit too slow on getting to cover. Any Armor Tanker relying on Armor Reppers is either a dead man or one not on the front lines. Armor Tankers NEED Logistics support, or need to be the Logi themselves, who wouldn't get shot as much if they are doing their job. Yes tell that to my Gallente Assault. Yeah it's worse than my Caldari Assault, but it's doing it's job. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4321	Posted - 2013.12.04 20:49:00 - [7] - Quote Sephirian Fair wrote: Stopping brick tanking? This hits the pure Shield tankers far more than the dual tanks. I've been running pure Shield Extenders and Regulators since the start of Chromosome. My primary fit doesn't even use a proto weapon so I can fit 4 Shield Extenders and 3 Regulators because it is my favorite style of play. If the penalty is even as high as 5%, CCP just completely fucks over the ones actually using Shields to their initial design as hit and run skirmishers. The Brick tankers don't give a damn about a small added delay. They survive their encounter based on eHP, which isn't changed and just take a little longer to get back to full health. If regulators aren't buffed in conjunction to this, CCP just again proves how poor at balancing they are. The same mistakes are constantly made with no signs of them ever learning. Actually, my Caldari Assault has a recharge delay of 2 seconds. Considering there is a bug that allows shields to recharge in fire for one pulse every time the delay has passed, it basically recharges more /s than my Gallente Assault with two complex armor reps, while having near exact same HP. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4321	Posted - 2013.12.04 20:52:00 - [8] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Local Armor reps are actually meant more for Shield Tankers, so they can patch up the small amount of damage that might leak through when they're abit too slow on getting to cover. Any Armor Tanker relying on Armor Reppers is either a dead man or one not on the front lines. Armor Tankers NEED Logistics support, or need to be the Logi themselves, who wouldn't get shot as much if they are doing their job. Yes tell that to my Gallente Assault. Yeah it's worse than my Caldari Assault, but it's doing it's job. You can cap out your local armor reps at 15-22 per second, but then you've just turned yourself into a Shield Tank with no til death HP buffer because we have no 'hull' HP. If I understand what you are implying anyway. And even then, your now much smaller HP bar getting healed by a half-a-bullet every second isn't nearly as solid as a Logi-supported platewall. I have around 500 armor, and 217 shields. I regen at around 10hp/s. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4321	Posted - 2013.12.04 20:55:00 - [9] - Quote Sephirian Fair wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Sephirian Fair wrote: Stopping brick tanking? This hits the pure Shield tankers far more than the dual tanks. I've been running pure Shield Extenders and Regulators since the start of Chromosome. My primary fit doesn't even use a proto weapon so I can fit 4 Shield Extenders and 3 Regulators because it is my favorite style of play. If the penalty is even as high as 5%, CCP just completely fucks over the ones actually using Shields to their initial design as hit and run skirmishers. The Brick tankers don't give a damn about a small added delay. They survive their encounter based on eHP, which isn't changed and just take a little longer to get back to full health. If regulators aren't buffed in conjunction to this, CCP just again proves how poor at balancing they are. The same mistakes are constantly made with no signs of them ever learning. Actually, my Caldari Assault has a recharge delay of 2 seconds. Considering there is a bug that allows shields to recharge in fire for one pulse every time the delay has passed, it basically recharges more /s than my Gallente Assault with two complex armor reps. And you're running 3 regulators on it. That's how you get 2 seconds, or it is technically 1.9 seconds. 2 regulators is 2.6-2.7 range. A 5% penalty will remove an Enhanced Regulator's worth when using all Shield Extenders. And that's not a bug, that is people missing. If they miss for that 1.9 seconds, you get a pulse of health from it. Unless there is a legitimate bug where the pulsing doesn't stop, then that would need to be reported and dealt with. It pulses, then it waits until the delay has passed, and pulses again. It doesn't care if there is damage. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4321	Posted - 2013.12.04 20:57:00 - [10] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Cosgar wrote: Move damage mods to low slots and armor/shield will be balanced then. How exactly will it be balanced? Why should armor get the highest HP ceiling and access to damage mods too? The only reason armor suits use damage mods is because there isn't any thing else worth putting in those high slots. CEILING. No armor tanker worth a damn runs with more than 600 armor HP. My armor tanker suit without logistics support: 500 armor. My armor tanker suit WITH logistics support: 600 armor. If I completely forget about armor reps, don't have any equipment, and use an advanced weapon, I can get 800 HP. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.

Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4321	Posted - 2013.12.04 20:58:00 - [11] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Why would an armor tanker care about having no inherent regen when a logi will gladly rep them for 40-175 HP/sec to farm WP? Or when multiple beams make them unkillable by anything except except cores, a forge gun direct hit, a vehicle hit, or an OB, all the while acting as a source of WP for their team? Why would an armor tanker care about lower movement speed when they are tethered to a logi by a repair tool beam, or to one spot by the radius of their triage nanohive? But that's exactly it, it means armor is doing it's job. It's moving slowly with logistics support behind it. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4324	Posted - 2013.12.04 21:03:00 - [12] - Quote Cosgar wrote: How about we stop telling each other how to fit our suits? This is why we have the problems we have now. And this is coming from a logi that uses proto equipment, despite any incentive to do so. Also? Who had a better release? BF4 or Uprising. "How about we stop telling each other how to fit our suits?" A shield tanker named Cosgar keeps saying that armor suits run with stacked plates. A armor tanker named Cat Merc keeps saying that it isn't viable without logi support, which means team work, which should be more powerful. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4324	Posted - 2013.12.04 21:04:00 - [13] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Cosgar wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Cosgar wrote: Move damage mods to low slots and armor/shield will be balanced then. How exactly will it be balanced? Why should armor get the highest HP ceiling and access to damage mods too? The only reason armor suits use damage mods is because there isn't any thing else worth putting in those high slots. CEILING. No armor tanker worth a damn runs with more than 600 armor HP. My armor tanker suit without logistics support: 500 armor. My armor tanker suit WITH logistics support: 600 armor. If I completely forget about armor reps, don't have any equipment, and use an advanced weapon, I can get 800 HP. Sounds like a first world problem. Considering the stats on my Caldari Assault, not at all. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4324	Posted - 2013.12.04 21:04:00 - [14] - Quote Sephirian Fair wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Sephirian Fair wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Sephirian Fair wrote: Stopping brick tanking? This hits the pure Shield tankers far more than the dual tanks. I've been running pure Shield Extenders and Regulators since the start of Chromosome. My primary fit doesn't even use a proto weapon so I can fit 4 Shield Extenders and 3 Regulators because it is my favorite style of play. If the penalty is even as high as 5%, CCP just completely fucks over the ones actually using Shields to their initial design as hit and run skirmishers. The Brick tankers don't give a damn about a small added delay. They survive their encounter based on eHP, which isn't changed and just take a little longer to get back to full health. If regulators aren't buffed in conjunction to this, CCP just again proves how poor at balancing they are. The same mistakes are constantly made with no signs of them ever learning. Actually, my Caldari Assault has a recharge delay of 2 seconds. Considering there is a bug that allows shields to recharge in fire for one pulse every time the delay has passed, it basically recharges more /s than my Gallente Assault with two complex armor reps. And you're running 3 regulators on it. That's how you get 2 seconds, or it is technically 1.9 seconds. 2 regulators is 2.6-2.7 range. A 5% penalty will remove an Enhanced Regulator's worth when using all Shield Extenders. And that's not a bug, that is people missing. If they miss for that 1.9 seconds, you get a pulse of health from it. Unless there is a legitimate bug where the pulsing doesn't stop, then that would need to be reported and dealt with. It pulses, then it waits until the delay has passed, and pulses again. It doesn't care if there is damage. Then report the bug, probably with less vagueness than you are doing here. Nerfing the play style because of the bug doesn't make any sense anyways. The two classes of defense have been fairly equal since armor's last buff and CCP's decision to nerf one class compared to making the distinct playstyle of it more appealing just continues to show how amateurish that are when it comes to balancing their game. This doesn't stop brick tankers. I don't know what about this even comes close. All it does is hurt the pure shield mercs and nearly forces them to brick tank. I did. It existed for months now without any confirmation that it's going to be fixed. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4330	Posted - 2013.12.04 21:22:00 - [15] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Cosgar wrote: How about we stop telling each other how to fit our suits? This is why we have the problems we have now. And this is coming from a logi that uses proto equipment, despite any incentive to do so. Also? Who had a better release? BF4 or Uprising. "How about we stop telling each other how to fit our suits?" A shield tanker named Cosgar keeps saying that armor suits run with stacked plates. A armor tanker named Cat Merc keeps saying that it isn't viable without logi support, which means team work, which should be more powerful. Personally, I'm glad neither one of us are devs for this **** game. That we can agree on. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4330	Posted - 2013.12.04 21:46:00 - [16] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Hey, Cat Merc is back. What up? And yeah I agree this is ultimately a good think as right now all Dust 514 consists of is brick tanking. Penalizing only makes other combinations more viable. Plus it is only for the depleted shield delay, not normal shield delay. If you are going to stack extra shield, try not to get depleted. Meow Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4334	Posted - 2013.12.04 21:49:00 - [17] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: The problem with shields and armor balance right now is that armor with squad support is not just powerful, it can be impossible to defeat in the right circumstances (proto logis with dual beams locked onto proto armor tankers with huge buffer and damage mods). THAT is a problem. Dual beams should be heavily nerfed IMHO. But the rest seems fine to me. I could always beat it if I target the logi. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4335	Posted - 2013.12.04 22:00:00 - [18] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Hey, Cat Merc is back. What up? And yeah I agree this is ultimately a good think as right now all Dust 514 consists of is brick tanking. Penalizing only makes other combinations more viable. Plus it is only for the depleted shield delay, not normal shield delay. If you are going to stack extra shield, try not to get depleted. As a shield tanker I spend more time depleted, in armor and hiding than with full shields in combat. If I'm seen I'm dead. This is the case with both my assault and my scout. Saying "try not to get depleted" is easy enough but shields go down way too fast. 2 bullets per complex extender on top of a base 10 second deplete delay on my assault. Sorry but I'm dead in a second even with my highs filled with extenders. My scout suit has 80 armor and less than 300 shields. All of these changes are minor debuffs to other other suits but Minmatar suits will feel this the absolute worse and we can't even dual tank well. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1563772#post1563772 Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4335	Posted - 2013.12.04 22:03:00 - [19] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Hey, Cat Merc is back. What up? And yeah I agree this is ultimately a good think as right now all Dust 514 consists of is brick tanking. Penalizing only makes other combinations more viable. Plus it is only for the depleted shield delay, not normal shield delay. If you are going to stack extra shield, try not to get depleted. As a shield tanker I spend more time depleted, in armor and hiding than with full shields in combat. If I'm seen I'm dead. This is the case with both my assault and my scout. Saying "try not to get depleted" is easy enough but shields go down way too fast. 2 bullets per complex extender on top of a base 10 second deplete delay on my assault. Sorry but I'm dead in a second even with my highs filled with extenders. My scout suit has 80 armor and less than 300 shields. All of these changes are minor debuffs to other other suits but Minmatar suits will feel this the absolute worse and we can't even dual tank well. Especially since a complex extender barely survives 2 AR bullets. Both tanking types need to be looked into. A lot of changes came in before hit detection was fixed and Ina game balanced around bad hit detection, it's time to update. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1563772#post1563772 Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4335	Posted - 2013.12.04 22:04:00 - [20] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Hey, Cat Merc is back. What up? And yeah I agree this is ultimately a good think as right now all Dust 514 consists of is brick tanking. Penalizing only makes other combinations more viable. Plus it is only for the depleted shield delay, not normal shield delay. If you are going to stack extra shield, try not to get depleted. As a shield tanker I spend more time depleted, in armor and hiding than with full shields in combat. If I'm seen I'm dead. This is the case with both my assault and my scout. Saying "try not to get depleted" is easy enough but shields go down way too fast. 2 bullets per complex extender on top of a base 10 second deplete delay on my assault. Sorry but I'm dead in a second even with my highs filled with extenders. My scout suit has 80 armor and less than 300 shields. All of these changes are minor debuffs to other other suits but Minmatar suits will feel this the absolute worse and we can't even dual tank well. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1563772#post1563772 Are you telling me to spec into gallente or caldari? I'm telling you that after the nerf, both are an equally good option. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.

Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4335	Posted - 2013.12.04 22:07:00 - [21] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Cosgar wrote: Especially since a complex extender barely survives 2 AR bullets. Both tanking types need to be looked into. A lot of changes came in before hit detection was fixed and Ina game balanced around bad hit detection, it's time to update. Completely agree and I am all in favor or buffing HP values for suits and modules in recognition of the improved hit detection. I agree with that. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4338	Posted - 2013.12.04 22:13:00 - [22] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Cosgar wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Hey, Cat Merc is back. What up? And yeah I agree this is ultimately a good think as right now all Dust 514 consists of is brick tanking. Penalizing only makes other combinations more viable. Plus it is only for the depleted shield delay, not normal shield delay. If you are going to stack extra shield, try not to get depleted. As a shield tanker I spend more time depleted, in armor and hiding than with full shields in combat. If I'm seen I'm dead. This is the case with both my assault and my scout. Saying "try not to get depleted" is easy enough but shields go down way too fast. 2 bullets per complex extender on top of a base 10 second deplete delay on my assault. Sorry but I'm dead in a second even with my highs filled with extenders. My scout suit has 80 armor and less than 300 shields. All of these changes are minor debuffs to other other suits but Minmatar suits will feel this the absolute worse and we can't even dual tank well. Especially since a complex extender barely survives 2 AR bullets. Both tanking types need to be looked into. A lot of changes came in before hit detection was fixed and Ina game balanced around bad hit detection, it's time to update. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1563772#post1563772 Try that with a Mk.0 and get back to me. That's a general suit problem. If it will be a problem in 1.7 it was a problem before 1.7. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4339	Posted - 2013.12.04 22:27:00 - [23] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Cat Merc wrote: If it will be a problem in 1.7 it was a problem before 1.7. Will you finally agree that shields were only better than armor because armor made them look better? Well... That kinda contradicts itself. When someone says shields are better, he means better than armor. When someone says armor is better, he means better than shields. Tanking in general needs a rework, infact I say rebuild infantry from scratch like they have with vehicles. Strip down everything and bring it back to the core, suits, weapons, modules, etc'. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4341	Posted - 2013.12.04 23:18:00 - [24] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Cosgar wrote: Cat Merc wrote: If it will be a problem in 1.7 it was a problem before 1.7. Will you finally agree that shields were only better than armor because armor made them look better? Well... That kinda contradicts itself. When someone says shields are better, he means better than armor. When someone says armor is better, he means better than shields. Tanking in general needs a rework, infact I say rebuild infantry from scratch like they have with vehicles. Strip down everything and bring it back to the core, suits, weapons, modules, etc'. You're thinking of Chromosome when skills affect your character over their fitting. There was a disparity between shields and armor but they tried to balance it based on SP by giving shields higher modifiers. You had to have sufficient levels in recharging and (I think) extenders before you could even think about increasing your max shields. Armor was only a 1x modifier that you could max in a day when you made a new character. But armor didn't have the crazy prerequisites that shields had. When Uprising came out, both skills had the same modifier and prerequisites. I admit plates underperformed, but recharge/regulation underperformed as well. Suits don't have a low enough recharge delay/depletion to work well with the hit and run tactics everyone thinks they have. They're self sustainable with shorter downtimes than self armor repair at best, but not snout to ever make a Caldari assault/logi or Minmatar assault use rechargers/energizers over simply stacking extenders and plates. This advantage you say shields have isn't there, it never was plainly because plates weren't good enough at the time. 2.8 seconds while maintaining very similar eHP to the Gallente suit isn't enough? Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4342	Posted - 2013.12.04 23:31:00 - [25] - Quote Cosgar wrote: ScRs,ARs, and flux grenades don't blamp armor. RR, CR and Core Locus. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4342	Posted - 2013.12.04 23:55:00 - [26] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Cat Merc wrote: It's a step. You now need to fit regulators in your low slots to have quickly regenerating shields, no more armor plates. Sephirian Fair wrote: OMG. I am a ***** idiot. Holy ... I just reread the patch notes again... Added shield extender penalty - stacking slows down the depleted shield recharge delay. ..........Okay, I take back everything I have said thus far. There isn't going to be any change to the hit and run playstyle that I typically do. The depleted recharge delay isn't even half as important as the normal delay. You are completely correct Cat Marc, this hurts Brick Tankers worse than pure Shield tankers. A pure Shield tanker never lets his shield hit 0, therefore the depleted delay is typically irrelevant Crisis adverted. You had way too much Catnip.** This is NOT a STEP FOWARD ANYTHING. This just consolidates ARMOR tanking even more.As the best way to play this game, if not the ONLY. ARMOR tank + Complex Damage mods (instead of Shield extenders) Are now the only smart way to go. who in their right minds will Have a 450 shield with good delay and recharge over 700 Armor with 12-18 Armor rep? Plus nanohives that recharge armor? NO ONE. That's logistics checkmate. An Assault can't even DREAM about it. I said it time and time again, logistics are the issue. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4344	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:00:00 - [27] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Cosgar wrote: ScRs,ARs, and flux grenades don't blamp armor. RR, CR and Core Locus. Two of which aren't even out yet and grenades are stupid OP with little discrimination. Nobody uses Fluxes, grenades are stupid OP as you said. And so what if they aren't out yet? When is the nerf coming out? When the anit armor weapons hit. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4344	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:05:00 - [28] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Cat Merc wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Cat Merc wrote: It's a step. You now need to fit regulators in your low slots to have quickly regenerating shields, no more armor plates. Sephirian Fair wrote: OMG. I am a ***** idiot. Holy ... I just reread the patch notes again... Added shield extender penalty - stacking slows down the depleted shield recharge delay. ..........Okay, I take back everything I have said thus far. There isn't going to be any change to the hit and run playstyle that I typically do. The depleted recharge delay isn't even half as important as the normal delay. You are completely correct Cat Marc, this hurts Brick Tankers worse than pure Shield tankers. A pure Shield tanker never lets his shield hit 0, therefore the depleted delay is typically irrelevant Crisis adverted. You had way too much Catnip.** This is NOT a STEP FOWARD ANYTHING. This just consolidates ARMOR tanking even more.As the best way to play this game, if not the ONLY. ARMOR tank + Complex Damage mods (instead of Shield extenders) Are now the only smart way to go. who in their right minds will Have a 450 shield with good delay and recharge over 700 Armor with 12-18 Armor rep? Plus nanohives that recharge armor? NO ONE. That's logistics checkmate. An Assault can't even DREAM about it. I said it time and time again, logistics are the issue. Well after 1.7 IS there any other dropsuit type? Because all i see is my soon to be Amarr Logi Ak..0 .... Logistics are a problem bud, don't bring down armor with it. Sniff My poor Gallente Assault is finally useful Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4344	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:12:00 - [29] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Cosgar wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Cosgar wrote: ScRs,ARs, and flux grenades don't blamp armor. RR, CR and Core Locus. Two of which aren't even out yet and grenades are stupid OP with little discrimination. Nobody uses Fluxes, grenades are stupid OP as you said. And so what if they aren't out yet? When is the nerf coming out? When the anit armor weapons hit. Going to be hard to tell a difference when everyone just armor tanks. At least my core breach MD will have a field day. I doubt everyone will armor tank when everyone I see in PC matches right now shield tanks. Literally, everyone. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4344	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:15:00 - [30] - Quote Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: I keep hoping this is a joke. Giving us the shield stacking penalty we needed back when shield tanked Cal's ruled the battlefield but now almost totally useless. Still incomplete line up of racial suits I love the new rifles and the FW looks great but its not the huge event it was gearing up for. Honestly the only conceivable way I can see this working is if the shields available in the LP store will have no stacking penalty. Or there's more stuff but CCP wants to surprise us. What stacking penalty? There is a stacking penalty to the downside, so each time the downside removes less recharge rate. But there is no stacking penalty to the shields. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.

Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4344	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:23:00 - [31] - Quote Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: I keep hoping this is a joke. Giving us the shield stacking penalty we needed back when shield tanked Cal's ruled the battlefield but now almost totally useless. Still incomplete line up of racial suits I love the new rifles and the FW looks great but its not the huge event it was gearing up for. Honestly the only conceivable way I can see this working is if the shields available in the LP store will have no stacking penalty. Or there's more stuff but CCP wants to surprise us. What stacking penalty? There is a stacking penalty to the downside, so each time the downside removes less recharge rate. But there is no stacking penalty to the shields. CCP Logibro wrote: Added shield extender penalty - stacking slows down the depleted shield recharge delay. You're reading it wrong. It just means that the more shield extenders you put on, the higher your recharge delay is. It doesn't have a negative stacking penalty like with damage mods, where the effect becomes weaker each time. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4344	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:27:00 - [32] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Cenex Langly wrote: Cosgar wrote: Move damage mods to low slots and armor/shield will be balanced then. They are on the low slots in EVE. But I agree. Either do a crazy tank or crazy damage. Not both. Having those mods on low slots will make shields/armor balanced for sure. Exactly! This is why we need some modules shifted and active EWAR debuff/buff modules in high slots. Like I said earlier armor tankers use damage mods because there's nothing else to put there. There's a catch Cosgar. Armor tankers don't actually stack plates like shield users stack extenders. Unless behind logi support, it simply isn't viable, your suit will get decimated after your first engagement. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4344	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:33:00 - [33] - Quote Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: Look I'll level with you. I'm tired and my dyslexia is acting up. I understand it as the more shields you stack, the longer it takes for the shields to start to come back. Its cumulative. Not exponential. That is what I'm saying To be fair it's nearly 3AM for me, so I unerstand you. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4344	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:45:00 - [34] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Cosgar wrote: Cenex Langly wrote: Cosgar wrote: Move damage mods to low slots and armor/shield will be balanced then. They are on the low slots in EVE. But I agree. Either do a crazy tank or crazy damage. Not both. Having those mods on low slots will make shields/armor balanced for sure. Exactly! This is why we need some modules shifted and active EWAR debuff/buff modules in high slots. Like I said earlier armor tankers use damage mods because there's nothing else to put there. There's a catch Cosgar. Armor tankers don't actually stack plates like shield users stack extenders. Unless behind logi support, it simply isn't viable, your suit will get decimated after your first engagement. And shields don't have the HP ceiling or recharge/regulator module rates for hit and run tactics. Like I said, both suck right now, even after the armor buff. 500 shields isn't enough? That's how much HP I rock on my Gallente Assault and I do great. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4349	Posted - 2013.12.05 02:39:00 - [35] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: One basic armor plate is not only easier to fit than a complex regulator for a shield tanker, but it is twice as effective. In this build, I'd still have that opinion even if the Complex Regulator was buffed to 85%. I think everyone knows how ridiculous basic plates are. I agree with that actually. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.

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