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The shield nerf is a step towards eliminating brick tanking

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KING CHECKMATE AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 2724	Posted - 2013.12.04 23:46:00 - [91] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: It's a step. You now need to fit regulators in your low slots to have quickly regenerating shields, no more armor plates. Sephirian Fair wrote: OMG. I am a ***** idiot. Holy ... I just reread the patch notes again... Added shield extender penalty - stacking slows down the depleted shield recharge delay. ..........Okay, I take back everything I have said thus far. There isn't going to be any change to the hit and run playstyle that I typically do. The depleted recharge delay isn't even half as important as the normal delay. You are completely correct Cat Marc, this hurts Brick Tankers worse than pure Shield tankers. A pure Shield tanker never lets his shield hit 0, therefore the depleted delay is typically irrelevant Crisis adverted. You had way too much Catnip.** This is NOT a STEP FOWARD ANYTHING. This just consolidates ARMOR tanking even more.As the best way to play this game, if not the ONLY. ARMOR tank + Complex Damage mods (instead of Shield extenders) Are now the only smart way to go. who in their right minds will Have a 450 shield with good delay and recharge over 700 Armor with 12-18 Armor rep? Plus nanohives that recharge armor? NO ONE. Support SCOUTS : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=124408&find=unread
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4342	Posted - 2013.12.04 23:55:00 - [92] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Cat Merc wrote: It's a step. You now need to fit regulators in your low slots to have quickly regenerating shields, no more armor plates. Sephirian Fair wrote: OMG. I am a ***** idiot. Holy ... I just reread the patch notes again... Added shield extender penalty - stacking slows down the depleted shield recharge delay. ..........Okay, I take back everything I have said thus far. There isn't going to be any change to the hit and run playstyle that I typically do. The depleted recharge delay isn't even half as important as the normal delay. You are completely correct Cat Marc, this hurts Brick Tankers worse than pure Shield tankers. A pure Shield tanker never lets his shield hit 0, therefore the depleted delay is typically irrelevant Crisis adverted. You had way too much Catnip.** This is NOT a STEP FOWARD ANYTHING. This just consolidates ARMOR tanking even more.As the best way to play this game, if not the ONLY. ARMOR tank + Complex Damage mods (instead of Shield extenders) Are now the only smart way to go. who in their right minds will Have a 450 shield with good delay and recharge over 700 Armor with 12-18 Armor rep? Plus nanohives that recharge armor? NO ONE. That's logistics checkmate. An Assault can't even DREAM about it. I said it time and time again, logistics are the issue. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cosgar ParagonX 8326	Posted - 2013.12.04 23:58:00 - [93] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Cosgar wrote: ScRs,ARs, and flux grenades don't blamp armor. RR, CR and Core Locus. Two of which aren't even out yet and grenades are stupid OP with little discrimination. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4344	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:00:00 - [94] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Cosgar wrote: ScRs,ARs, and flux grenades don't blamp armor. RR, CR and Core Locus. Two of which aren't even out yet and grenades are stupid OP with little discrimination. Nobody uses Fluxes, grenades are stupid OP as you said. And so what if they aren't out yet? When is the nerf coming out? When the anit armor weapons hit. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
KING CHECKMATE AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 2725	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:03:00 - [95] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Cat Merc wrote: It's a step. You now need to fit regulators in your low slots to have quickly regenerating shields, no more armor plates. Sephirian Fair wrote: OMG. I am a ***** idiot. Holy ... I just reread the patch notes again... Added shield extender penalty - stacking slows down the depleted shield recharge delay. ..........Okay, I take back everything I have said thus far. There isn't going to be any change to the hit and run playstyle that I typically do. The depleted recharge delay isn't even half as important as the normal delay. You are completely correct Cat Marc, this hurts Brick Tankers worse than pure Shield tankers. A pure Shield tanker never lets his shield hit 0, therefore the depleted delay is typically irrelevant Crisis adverted. You had way too much Catnip.** This is NOT a STEP FOWARD ANYTHING. This just consolidates ARMOR tanking even more.As the best way to play this game, if not the ONLY. ARMOR tank + Complex Damage mods (instead of Shield extenders) Are now the only smart way to go. who in their right minds will Have a 450 shield with good delay and recharge over 700 Armor with 12-18 Armor rep? Plus nanohives that recharge armor? NO ONE. That's logistics checkmate. An Assault can't even DREAM about it. I said it time and time again, logistics are the issue. Well after 1.7 IS there any other dropsuit type? Because all i see is my soon to be Amarr Logi Ak..0 .... Support SCOUTS : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=124408&find=unread
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4344	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:05:00 - [96] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Cat Merc wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Cat Merc wrote: It's a step. You now need to fit regulators in your low slots to have quickly regenerating shields, no more armor plates. Sephirian Fair wrote: OMG. I am a ***** idiot. Holy ... I just reread the patch notes again... Added shield extender penalty - stacking slows down the depleted shield recharge delay. ..........Okay, I take back everything I have said thus far. There isn't going to be any change to the hit and run playstyle that I typically do. The depleted recharge delay isn't even half as important as the normal delay. You are completely correct Cat Marc, this hurts Brick Tankers worse than pure Shield tankers. A pure Shield tanker never lets his shield hit 0, therefore the depleted delay is typically irrelevant Crisis adverted. You had way too much Catnip.** This is NOT a STEP FOWARD ANYTHING. This just consolidates ARMOR tanking even more.As the best way to play this game, if not the ONLY. ARMOR tank + Complex Damage mods (instead of Shield extenders) Are now the only smart way to go. who in their right minds will Have a 450 shield with good delay and recharge over 700 Armor with 12-18 Armor rep? Plus nanohives that recharge armor? NO ONE. That's logistics checkmate. An Assault can't even DREAM about it. I said it time and time again, logistics are the issue. Well after 1.7 IS there any other dropsuit type? Because all i see is my soon to be Amarr Logi Ak..0 .... Logistics are a problem bud, don't bring down armor with it. Sniff My poor Gallente Assault is finally useful Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 5795	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:06:00 - [97] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Cat Merc wrote: It's a step. You now need to fit regulators in your low slots to have quickly regenerating shields, no more armor plates. Sephirian Fair wrote: OMG. I am a ***** idiot. Holy ... I just reread the patch notes again... Added shield extender penalty - stacking slows down the depleted shield recharge delay. ..........Okay, I take back everything I have said thus far. There isn't going to be any change to the hit and run playstyle that I typically do. The depleted recharge delay isn't even half as important as the normal delay. You are completely correct Cat Marc, this hurts Brick Tankers worse than pure Shield tankers. A pure Shield tanker never lets his shield hit 0, therefore the depleted delay is typically irrelevant Crisis adverted. You had way too much Catnip.** This is NOT a STEP FOWARD ANYTHING. This just consolidates ARMOR tanking even more.As the best way to play this game, if not the ONLY. ARMOR tank + Complex Damage mods (instead of Shield extenders) Are now the only smart way to go. who in their right minds will Have a 450 shield with good delay and recharge over 700 Armor with 12-18 Armor rep? Plus nanohives that recharge armor? NO ONE. Consider what armour tanking values an assault suit can achieve, then look at the logistics suit. Is armour tanking really the problem? Or is it the logistics suit? Level 5 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Supporter of CCP raRaRa.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 5795	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:08:00 - [98] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Cosgar wrote: ScRs,ARs, and flux grenades don't blamp armor. RR, CR and Core Locus. Two of which aren't even out yet and grenades are stupid OP with little discrimination. Two of which are coming out in less than a week, and one of which is plenty enough to counter armour on its own. And if you're discounting one of those because it's OP, how come you're not discounting the AR and SCR? I've seen dozens of posts from you bitching about the AR being OP. Level 5 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Supporter of CCP raRaRa.
Meeko Fent Commando Perkone Caldari State 1703	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:09:00 - [99] - Quote I have zero issues with a penalty for extenders. What I DO have an issue with, is that now we need to fit regs, therefore no plates, therefore a slight HP buff should be given. 10 HP seems not OP. Refunding a few AUR militia Blueprints pertaining to vehicles because their respective modules will not exist anymore
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 5797	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:11:00 - [100] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: I have zero issues with a penalty for extenders. What I DO have an issue with, is that now we need to fit regs, therefore no plates, therefore a slight HP buff should be given. 10 HP seems not OP. You don't need to fit regulators. You don't even know how much the penalty is yet - and it's only for depleted shields. Level 5 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Supporter of CCP raRaRa.

Cosgar ParagonX 8327	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:11:00 - [101] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Cosgar wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Cosgar wrote: ScRs,ARs, and flux grenades don't blamp armor. RR, CR and Core Locus. Two of which aren't even out yet and grenades are stupid OP with little discrimination. Nobody uses Fluxes, grenades are stupid OP as you said. And so what if they aren't out yet? When is the nerf coming out? When the anit armor weapons hit. Going to be hard to tell a difference when everyone just armor tanks. At least my core breach MD will have a field day. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4344	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:12:00 - [102] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Cosgar wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Cosgar wrote: ScRs,ARs, and flux grenades don't blamp armor. RR, CR and Core Locus. Two of which aren't even out yet and grenades are stupid OP with little discrimination. Nobody uses Fluxes, grenades are stupid OP as you said. And so what if they aren't out yet? When is the nerf coming out? When the anit armor weapons hit. Going to be hard to tell a difference when everyone just armor tanks. At least my core breach MD will have a field day. I doubt everyone will armor tank when everyone I see in PC matches right now shield tanks. Literally, everyone. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Broonfondle Majikthies Bannana Boat Corp Relentless Heroes Alliance 552	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:13:00 - [103] - Quote I keep hoping this is a joke. Giving us the shield stacking penalty we needed back when shield tanked Cal's ruled the battlefield but now almost totally useless. Still incomplete line up of racial suits I love the new rifles and the FW looks great but its not the huge event it was gearing up for. Honestly the only conceivable way I can see this working is if the shields available in the LP store will have no stacking penalty. Or there's more stuff but CCP wants to surprise us. "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4344	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:15:00 - [104] - Quote Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: I keep hoping this is a joke. Giving us the shield stacking penalty we needed back when shield tanked Cal's ruled the battlefield but now almost totally useless. Still incomplete line up of racial suits I love the new rifles and the FW looks great but its not the huge event it was gearing up for. Honestly the only conceivable way I can see this working is if the shields available in the LP store will have no stacking penalty. Or there's more stuff but CCP wants to surprise us. What stacking penalty? There is a stacking penalty to the downside, so each time the downside removes less recharge rate. But there is no stacking penalty to the shields. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Meeko Fent Commando Perkone Caldari State 1703	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:16:00 - [105] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: I have zero issues with a penalty for extenders. What I DO have an issue with, is that now we need to fit regs, therefore no plates, therefore a slight HP buff should be given. 10 HP seems not OP. You don't need to fit regulators. You don't even know how much the penalty is yet - and it's only for depleted shields. How often has 300-350 HP last you through a firefight? It hurts standard suits quite a bit. Refunding a few AUR militia Blueprints pertaining to vehicles because their respective modules will not exist anymore
Cenex Langly 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 457	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:19:00 - [106] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Move damage mods to low slots and armor/shield will be balanced then. They are on the low slots in EVE. But I agree. Either do a crazy tank or crazy damage. Not both. Having those mods on low slots will make shields/armor balanced for sure. Newb
Broonfondle Majikthies Bannana Boat Corp Relentless Heroes Alliance 552	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:20:00 - [107] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: I keep hoping this is a joke. Giving us the shield stacking penalty we needed back when shield tanked Cal's ruled the battlefield but now almost totally useless. Still incomplete line up of racial suits I love the new rifles and the FW looks great but its not the huge event it was gearing up for. Honestly the only conceivable way I can see this working is if the shields available in the LP store will have no stacking penalty. Or there's more stuff but CCP wants to surprise us. What stacking penalty? There is a stacking penalty to the downside, so each time the downside removes less recharge rate. But there is no stacking penalty to the shields. CCP Logibro wrote: Added shield extender penalty - stacking slows down the depleted shield recharge delay. "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4344	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:23:00 - [108] - Quote Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: I keep hoping this is a joke. Giving us the shield stacking penalty we needed back when shield tanked Cal's ruled the battlefield but now almost totally useless. Still incomplete line up of racial suits I love the new rifles and the FW looks great but its not the huge event it was gearing up for. Honestly the only conceivable way I can see this working is if the shields available in the LP store will have no stacking penalty. Or there's more stuff but CCP wants to surprise us. What stacking penalty? There is a stacking penalty to the downside, so each time the downside removes less recharge rate. But there is no stacking penalty to the shields. CCP Logibro wrote: Added shield extender penalty - stacking slows down the depleted shield recharge delay. You're reading it wrong. It just means that the more shield extenders you put on, the higher your recharge delay is. It doesn't have a negative stacking penalty like with damage mods, where the effect becomes weaker each time. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cosgar ParagonX 8327	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:25:00 - [109] - Quote Cenex Langly wrote: Cosgar wrote: Move damage mods to low slots and armor/shield will be balanced then. They are on the low slots in EVE. But I agree. Either do a crazy tank or crazy damage. Not both. Having those mods on low slots will make shields/armor balanced for sure. Exactly! This is why we need some modules shifted and active EWAR debuff/buff modules in high slots. Like I said earlier armor tankers use damage mods because there's nothing else to put there. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4344	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:27:00 - [110] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Cenex Langly wrote: Cosgar wrote: Move damage mods to low slots and armor/shield will be balanced then. They are on the low slots in EVE. But I agree. Either do a crazy tank or crazy damage. Not both. Having those mods on low slots will make shields/armor balanced for sure. Exactly! This is why we need some modules shifted and active EWAR debuff/buff modules in high slots. Like I said earlier armor tankers use damage mods because there's nothing else to put there. There's a catch Cosgar. Armor tankers don't actually stack plates like shield users stack extenders. Unless behind logi support, it simply isn't viable, your suit will get decimated after your first engagement. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.

Broonfondle Majikthies Bannana Boat Corp Relentless Heroes Alliance 552	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:29:00 - [111] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: I keep hoping this is a joke. Giving us the shield stacking penalty we needed back when shield tanked Cal's ruled the battlefield but now almost totally useless. Still incomplete line up of racial suits I love the new rifles and the FW looks great but its not the huge event it was gearing up for. Honestly the only conceivable way I can see this working is if the shields available in the LP store will have no stacking penalty. Or there's more stuff but CCP wants to surprise us. What stacking penalty? There is a stacking penalty to the downside, so each time the downside removes less recharge rate. But there is no stacking penalty to the shields. CCP Logibro wrote: Added shield extender penalty - stacking slows down the depleted shield recharge delay. You're reading it wrong. It just means that the more shield extenders you put on, the higher your recharge delay is. It doesn't have a negative stacking penalty like with damage mods, where the effect becomes weaker each time. Look I'll level with you. I'm tired and my dyslexia is acting up. I understand it as the more shields you stack, the longer it takes for the shields to start to come back. Its cumulative. Not exponential. That is what I'm saying "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4344	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:33:00 - [112] - Quote Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: Look I'll level with you. I'm tired and my dyslexia is acting up. I understand it as the more shields you stack, the longer it takes for the shields to start to come back. Its cumulative. Not exponential. That is what I'm saying To be fair it's nearly 3AM for me, so I unerstand you. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cosgar ParagonX 8329	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:42:00 - [113] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Cosgar wrote: Cenex Langly wrote: Cosgar wrote: Move damage mods to low slots and armor/shield will be balanced then. They are on the low slots in EVE. But I agree. Either do a crazy tank or crazy damage. Not both. Having those mods on low slots will make shields/armor balanced for sure. Exactly! This is why we need some modules shifted and active EWAR debuff/buff modules in high slots. Like I said earlier armor tankers use damage mods because there's nothing else to put there. There's a catch Cosgar. Armor tankers don't actually stack plates like shield users stack extenders. Unless behind logi support, it simply isn't viable, your suit will get decimated after your first engagement. And shields don't have the HP ceiling or recharge/regulator module rates for hit and run tactics. Like I said, both suck right now, even after the armor buff. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4344	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:45:00 - [114] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Cosgar wrote: Cenex Langly wrote: Cosgar wrote: Move damage mods to low slots and armor/shield will be balanced then. They are on the low slots in EVE. But I agree. Either do a crazy tank or crazy damage. Not both. Having those mods on low slots will make shields/armor balanced for sure. Exactly! This is why we need some modules shifted and active EWAR debuff/buff modules in high slots. Like I said earlier armor tankers use damage mods because there's nothing else to put there. There's a catch Cosgar. Armor tankers don't actually stack plates like shield users stack extenders. Unless behind logi support, it simply isn't viable, your suit will get decimated after your first engagement. And shields don't have the HP ceiling or recharge/regulator module rates for hit and run tactics. Like I said, both suck right now, even after the armor buff. 500 shields isn't enough? That's how much HP I rock on my Gallente Assault and I do great. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
KING CHECKMATE AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 2727	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:50:00 - [115] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Logistics are a problem bud, don't bring down armor with it. Sniff My poor Gallente Assault is finally useful *Your Gallente Assault being crp compared to logis does not mean armor is Balanced.** Talking Armor vs Shields specificly, Armor is Broken and OP. Same as your GAl assault, many other Assaults are underpowered, but balance means thinking what EVERY suit might do with certain module.And ATM Logis are abusing it, to an extent where the least i've ever seen a Proto Logi is 350 Armors, on a minmatar logi. (Because even Cal Logi packs 400+) So your Gal Assault sucks ? Well its it a regular dropsuit, and it needs a buff in order to compete with logi suits. But armor plates need FIX.Either nerf to previous Speed Penalties, or a Buff to shields. Support SCOUTS : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=124408&find=unread
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1578	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:54:00 - [116] - Quote Sounds like armor versus shields is fine, it's the logis that need tweaking... Always goes back to logis... Closed Beta Vet Reading the forums detracts from overall enjoyment of the game
ReGnYuM Vindictive State 1431	Posted - 2013.12.05 00:58:00 - [117] - Quote LoL I am one of the few players who still uses regulators, and there is reason why people switched to armour. If you never heard of ReGnYuM, you're neither Good or Relevant in Dust 514. KDR>ALL Sig Move: Minmatar Crub Stomp
Cosgar ParagonX 8329	Posted - 2013.12.05 01:07:00 - [118] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: Sounds like armor versus shields is fine, it's the logis that need tweaking... Always goes back to logis... It's core mechanics, stop straw manning the issue. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Zahle Undt Unkn0wn Killers Renegade Alliance 497	Posted - 2013.12.05 01:17:00 - [119] - Quote For ****'s sake I'm already putting 2 enhanced armor plates on my proto minmatar assault because TTK is so much lower in this game and now shields are taking another hit? I know for all of beta shields were better than armor, but why does CCP now have to swing so far in the other direction?
KING CHECKMATE AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 2729	Posted - 2013.12.05 01:34:00 - [120] - Quote Im actually considering Using An Assault Ak.0 With only Armor plates and REpair Hives now to avoid using shield Extenders.... Support SCOUTS : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=124408&find=unread



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