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Ok! so let me get this straight.

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Michael Cratar Fenrir's Wolves Zero-Day 268	Posted - 2013.12.02 22:11:00 - [1] - Quote The whole point of the game atm is to improve your merc. Right? So why is it frowned apon to use prototype equipment when the whole point of the game atm is to get said equipment. If you are tired of getting owned by someone. Why not, oh I dont know, get better at the game? I have proto gear. It wont stop you from getting owned. Id much rather be "PWOTOW STAWMPED" then be in a match with people who barely know how to walk forward without getting stuck on a wall let alone know how to shoot a gun. This is AS BAD a cod. Seriously. Rant over The question is not if I can or can not, but who is going to stop me? Beta Vet
Luna Angelo We Who Walk Alone 252	Posted - 2013.12.02 22:14:00 - [2] - Quote Michael Cratar wrote: The whole point of the game atm is to improve your merc. Right? So why is it frowned apon to use prototype equipment when the whole point of the game atm is to get said equipment. If you are tired of getting owned by someone. Why not, oh I dont know, get better at the game? I have proto gear. It wont stop you from getting owned. Id much rather be "PWOTOW STAWMPED" then be in a match with people who barely know how to walk forward without getting stuck on a wall let alone know how to shoot a gun. This is AS BAD a cod. Seriously. Rant over And how are you supposed to improve your skills when you get killed every 5 seconds. You try something for me. Create an alt, go into Academy, beat them to a bloody pulp, then join a regular Pub match. I tried it. It's vicious. Trust me. Names of playstyles
Cosgar ParagonX 8206	Posted - 2013.12.02 22:16:00 - [3] - Quote People lack foresight on bigger issues like matchmaking and new player experience. Plain and simple. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Luna Angelo We Who Walk Alone 252	Posted - 2013.12.02 22:16:00 - [4] - Quote Cosgar wrote: People lack foresight on bigger issues like matchmaking and new player experience. Plain and simple. And on player retention and the health of the game. Names of playstyles
Michael Cratar Fenrir's Wolves Zero-Day 268	Posted - 2013.12.02 22:19:00 - [5] - Quote Luna Angelo wrote: Michael Cratar wrote: The whole point of the game atm is to improve your merc. Right? So why is it frowned apon to use prototype equipment when the whole point of the game atm is to get said equipment. If you are tired of getting owned by someone. Why not, oh I dont know, get better at the game? I have proto gear. It wont stop you from getting owned. Id much rather be "PWOTOW STAWMPED" then be in a match with people who barely know how to walk forward without getting stuck on a wall let alone know how to shoot a gun. This is AS BAD a cod. Seriously. Rant over And how are you supposed to improve your skills when you get killed every 5 seconds. You try something for me. Create an alt, go into Academy, beat them to a bloody pulp, then join a regular Pub match. I tried it. It's vicious. Trust me. I did. I still do. And its fun a fk. I could be on my alt right now and you would never know. Spooky. The question is not if I can or can not, but who is going to stop me? Beta Vet**
Jammer Jalapeno BIG BAD W0LVES 73	Posted - 2013.12.02 22:20:00 - [6] - Quote Well I believe there is a time and place for Proto gear....if you are playing against a bunch of new berries what is the point of pubstomping them into the ground? You can do just as well in your ADV or STD gear. Hell why not make it challenging and play MLT. Is it so wrong to let them have a few objectives instead of brutally redlining? However, if the other team is bringing out their good gear, I say game on. MmMmMm TanKs....delicious TanKs
Luna Angelo We Who Walk Alone 253	Posted - 2013.12.02 22:21:00 - [7] - Quote Michael Cratar wrote: Luna Angelo wrote: Michael Cratar wrote: The whole point of the game atm is to improve your merc. Right? So why is it frowned apon to use prototype equipment when the whole point of the game atm is to get said equipment. If you are tired of getting owned by someone. Why not, oh I dont know, get better at the game? I have proto gear. It wont stop you from getting owned. Id much rather be "PWOTOW STAWMPED" then be in a match with people who barely know how to walk forward without getting stuck on a wall let alone know how to shoot a gun. This is AS BAD a cod. Seriously. Rant over And how are you supposed to improve your skills when you get killed every 5 seconds. You try something for me. Create an alt, go into Academy, beat them to a bloody pulp, then join a regular Pub match. I tried it. It's vicious. Trust me. I did. I still do. And its fun a f**k. I could be on my alt right now and you would never know. Spooky. Well, I still don't see how stomping newbies is good for the game. Keep that frelling stuff in PC/FW. Names of playstyles
Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 93	Posted - 2013.12.02 22:23:00 - [8] - Quote Luna Angelo wrote: And how are you supposed to improve your skills when you get killed every 5 seconds. You try something for me. Create an alt, go into Academy, beat them to a bloody pulp, then join a regular Pub match. I tried it. It's vicious. Trust me. Failure of a student to recognize the lesson is not entirely the teacher''s fault. In this hell-ish environment one needs to not only be good at the gameplay, but be good enough that they can do it without requiring a lot of thought to do it. This opens up that extra "thought-time" to worry about how to overcome and adapt to how the enemy is acting and what they are doing on the battlefield. Only then will you win. Here is a good link for what I'm talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop When you are able to observe and react to the enemy's play-style faster than they are to you, then you win. Trying to do the same thing over and over again and again unsuccessfully is dumb and gets you no where. It's like the saying where only an insane person thinks that doing the exact same thing over and over again could possibly get a different result.
Michael Cratar Fenrir's Wolves Zero-Day 268	Posted - 2013.12.02 22:23:00 - [9] - Quote Luna Angelo wrote: Michael Cratar wrote: Luna Angelo wrote: Michael Cratar wrote: The whole point of the game atm is to improve your merc. Right? So why is it frowned apon to use prototype equipment when the whole point of the game atm is to get said equipment. If you are tired of getting owned by someone. Why not, oh I dont know, get better at the game? I have proto gear. It wont stop you from getting owned. Id much rather be "PWOTOW STAWMPED" then be in a match with people who barely know how to walk forward without getting stuck on a wall let alone know how to shoot a gun. This is AS BAD a cod. Seriously. Rant over And how are you supposed to improve your skills when you get killed every 5 seconds. You try something for me. Create an alt, go into Academy, beat them to a bloody pulp, then join a regular Pub match. I tried it. It's vicious. Trust me. I did. I still do. And its fun a fk. I could be on my alt right now and you would never know. Spooky. Well, I still don't see how stomping newbies is good for the game. Keep that frelling stuff in PC/FW. I never said stomping newberries was the fun part. Skilling into nothing but nanohives and grenades is the fun part. The question is not if I can or can not, but who is going to stop me? Beta Vet**
jenza aranda BetaMax. 2300	Posted - 2013.12.02 22:23:00 - [10] - Quote WELL, some people believe that because there is no matchmaking in pub games, that people shouldnt be allowed to use proto. While I understand this mentality it wont stop me from using my proto gear because if i have it, I will use it. Dust 514 101 // Dust 514 Wiki

Luna Angelo We Who Walk Alone 253	Posted - 2013.12.02 22:25:00 - [11] - Quote Michael Cratar wrote: Luna Angelo wrote: Michael Cratar wrote: Luna Angelo wrote: Michael Cratar wrote: The whole point of the game atm is to improve your merc. Right? So why is it frowned apon to use prototype equipment when the whole point of the game atm is to get said equipment. If you are tired of getting owned by someone. Why not, oh I dont know, get better at the game? I have proto gear. It wont stop you from getting owned. Id much rather be "PWOTOW STAWMPED" then be in a match with people who barely know how to walk forward without getting stuck on a wall let alone know how to shoot a gun. This is AS BAD a cod. Seriously. Rant over And how are you supposed to improve your skills when you get killed every 5 seconds. You try something for me. Create an alt, go into Academy, beat them to a bloody pulp, then join a regular Pub match. I tried it. It's vicious. Trust me. I did. I still do. And its fun a f**k. I could be on my alt right now and you would never know. Spooky. Well, I still don't see how stomping newbies is good for the game. Keep that frelling stuff in PC/FW. I never said stomping newberries was the fun part. Skilling into nothing but nanohives and grenades is the fun part. ....Ugh. My point is, it's bad for the game. And Jenza, as a CPM, you should be setting an example, not destroying the fun. IT'S A GAME!!!! WE HAVE PC AND FW FOR LO-SEC!!!! Pubs are HI-SEC. Names of playstyles
Michael Cratar Fenrir's Wolves Zero-Day 268	Posted - 2013.12.02 22:28:00 - [12] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: WELL, some people believe that because there is no matchmaking in pub games, that people shouldnt be allowed to use proto. While I understand this mentality it wont stop me from using my proto gear because if i have it, I will use it. WHAT? A CPM IN THE FORUMS! I must over react to everything you say and then bash the game with my bias opinions While ignoring everyone els! Note: You make a good point, and I agree. +1 The question is not if I can or can not, but who is going to stop me? Beta Vet
Gorra Snell The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 284	Posted - 2013.12.02 22:29:00 - [13] - Quote Michael Cratar wrote: The whole point of the game atm is to improve your merc. Right? Nope - the point is to have fun. If improving your merc is your idea of fun, then that's what it is for you. Could be different things for other people...making bad/cheap fits work, socializing, making ISKies, maxing K/D, maxing WP/D, etc. While a game solely focused on K/D is something of a zero-sum game in terms of 'success', the fact that CCP provides us with a variety of metrics which we can choose to pursue, makes it possible for players with different values to come away from a match thinking they both 'won', despite feeling like their opponents lost. For example, player A is just after the ISK, player B is just after a high KDR...A runs MLT, goes 3/9 but makes 100k ISK, B goes 17/2 in PRO gear and breaks even on ISK...both feel successful. I'm more of a player A in this equation...sounds like you're more of a B. There's room for both of us. RDVs are a failed experiment - can't we just remove them from the game?
Wolfica Fatal Absolution 367	Posted - 2013.12.02 22:30:00 - [14] - Quote My turn. I love my proto gear and wont stop using it. my suits cost 200k a piece and guess what. that's all I run. I haven't ran a starter suit in weeks. even though I have a proto cal logi and a shitton of proto gear I cant fit all of it. my proto cal logi fit consists of 4 damage mods a duvoll, M1 nades, and 4 complex armor plates. Ive got 225 shield 700 armor. its that or I run with all proto equip shield extenders a damage mod and cpu/pg upgrades in my low slots because I cant fit everything without them. So do I run my cheaper suit that is almost impossible to kill 1v1. or even 1v7 which has happened before. or do I run my 233k isk suit that can be 2 shotted by a scout shotty. or dropped in 10 rounds from a new bro and his gek. maybe even 1 shotted by the all powerfull imperial scrambler. the other day I turned of my ps3 after going 9/3 in a 50 clone amb. why because I just got 9 out of 11 kills on my team. this game is not cod and that's why I play it. like EVE it favors those who have played longer. so people need to stop complaining about people like me who run proto in every match because guess what some day if you can get through the first few months like the rest of us did you too will be in proto gear. but thanks to you it may be absolutely useless. so if you want to play a game were the goal is to see how many times you can reset your skills then go play cod where no one has an advantage. more rants to come I reject you reality and substitute my own.
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 761	Posted - 2013.12.02 22:30:00 - [15] - Quote Michael Cratar wrote: The whole point of the game atm is to improve your merc. Right? So why is it frowned apon to use prototype equipment when the whole point of the game atm is to get said equipment. If you are tired of getting owned by someone. Why not, oh I dont know, get better at the game? I have proto gear. It wont stop you from getting owned. Id much rather be "PWOTOW STAWMPED" then be in a match with people who barely know how to walk forward without getting stuck on a wall let alone know how to shoot a gun. This is AS BAD a cod. Seriously. Rant over Using protogear is not the problem. It is the matchmaking of premade protostomping corps squads against non premade protostomping corps. Match the tryhards in full win win gear with others of their ilk. Match the casual or new gamers with other casual or new gamers. "It's made with bits of real Gallente. So you know it's good." -GÇö Brian Fantana paraphrased
Michael Cratar Fenrir's Wolves Zero-Day 268	Posted - 2013.12.02 22:32:00 - [16] - Quote Luna Angelo wrote: ....Ugh. My point is, it's bad for the game. And Jenza, as a CPM, you should be setting an example, not destroying the fun. IT'S A GAME!!!! WE HAVE PC AND FW FOR LO-SEC!!!! Pubs are HI-SEC. So, its bad for a game to have fun with the equipment I earned? I have the freedom to use it whenever and where ever I please. This is supposed to be a sand box game right? Right? The question is not if I can or can not, but who is going to stop me? Beta Vet
Karl Marx II Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 209	Posted - 2013.12.02 22:33:00 - [17] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: WELL, some people believe that because there is no matchmaking in pub games, that people shouldnt be allowed to use proto. While I understand this mentality it wont stop me from using my proto gear because if i have it, I will use it. HUH ? Where in the hell did you come to that conclusion ?? No wonder the matchmaking system is awful if the CPM's supposed to be pressing for issues to be fixed don't see it as a problem it'll never get fixed !!! The players are asking .. and wait for this .. it will blow your mind ... PVE/High sec/low sec where certain levels of gear are restricted OR do SP restricted matches that slightly seperates the players into different bands maybe 500k - 5m sp and 5m sp + get put against each other rather than sticking guys just out of the academy v guys with 30m SP Why don't you stop stomping new players and turning them away from the game and go and push this matter to CCP so they can actually do something about it and maybe .. attract some new players instead ?? This is why I think you are an awful CPM and should step down from the position, you're clueless and useless My Theme
Wolfica Fatal Absolution 367	Posted - 2013.12.02 22:33:00 - [18] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: WELL, some people believe that because there is no matchmaking in pub games, that people shouldnt be allowed to use proto. While I understand this mentality it wont stop me from using my proto gear because if i have it, I will use it. this just made me smile... well said. I reject you reality and substitute my own.
Michael Cratar Fenrir's Wolves Zero-Day 268	Posted - 2013.12.02 22:35:00 - [19] - Quote Gorra Snell wrote: Michael Cratar wrote: The whole point of the game atm is to improve your merc. Right? Nope - the point is to have fun. If improving your merc is your idea of fun, then that's what it is for you. Could be different things for other people...making bad/cheap fits work, socializing, making ISKies, maxing K/D, maxing WP/D, etc. While a game solely focused on K/D is something of a zero-sum game in terms of 'success', the fact that CCP provides us with a variety of metrics which we can choose to pursue, makes it possible for players with different values to come away from a match thinking they both 'won', despite feeling like their opponents lost. For example, player A is just after the ISK, player B is just after a high KDR...A runs MLT, goes 3/9 but makes 100k ISK, B goes 17/2 in PRO gear and breaks even on ISK...both feel successful. I'm more of a player A in this equation...sounds like you're more of a B. There's room for both of us. Thank you. Proper feedback at its finest. You also pointed out a flaw in my argument. +1 The question is not if I can or can not, but who is going to stop me? Beta Vet
mini rehak The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 142	Posted - 2013.12.02 22:45:00 - [20] - Quote This is New Eden, it's not fair. I spent my SP to get proto gear and you bet your ass i'm going to use it use. Running a proto fit does NOT make people god it just means you can't fight stupid when you see them. Yeah a guy running a proto suit MIGHT seem OP if you run at them going full ******. Think a bit before you shoot people. HTFU! Know that you mean nothing to me,Nor the lies that seep from your teeth. Won't piss on you if you're on fire.

Karl Marx II Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 209	Posted - 2013.12.02 22:45:00 - [21] - Quote Wolfica wrote: My turn. I love my proto gear and wont stop using it. my suits cost 200k a piece and guess what. that's all I run. I haven't ran a starter suit in weeks. even though I have a proto cal logi and a shitton of proto gear I cant fit all of it. my proto cal logi fit consists of 4 damage mods a duvoll, M1 nades, and 4 complex armor plates. Ive got 225 shield 700 armor. its that or I run with all proto equip shield extenders a damage mod and cpu/pg upgrades in my low slots because I cant fit everything without them. So do I run my cheaper suit that is almost impossible to kill 1v1. or even 1v7 which has happened before. or do I run my 233k isk suit that can be 2 shotted by a scout shotty. or dropped in 10 rounds from a new bro and his gek. maybe even 1 shotted by the all powerfull imperial scrambler. the other day I turned of my ps3 after going 9/3 in a 50 clone amb. why because I just got 9 out of 11 kills on my team. this game is not cod and that's why I play it. like EVE it favors those who have played longer. so people need to stop complaining about people like me who run proto in every match because guess what some day if you can get through the first few months like the rest of us did you too will be in proto gear. but thanks to you it may be absolutely useless. so if you want to play a game were the goal is to see how many times you can reset your skills then go play cod where no one has an advantage. more rants to come New players need a gamemode or something to do other than getting protostomped constantly ... if you can't see that problem then it is pointless talking with you My Theme
jenza aranda BetaMax. 2300	Posted - 2013.12.02 22:50:00 - [22] - Quote Karl Marx II wrote: jenza aranda wrote: WELL, some people believe that because there is no matchmaking in pub games, that people shouldnt be allowed to use proto. While I understand this mentality it wont stop me from using my proto gear because if i have it, I will use it. HUH ? Where in the hell did you come to that conclusion ?? No wonder the matchmaking system is awful if the CPM's supposed to be pressing for issues to be fixed don't see it as a problem it'll never get fixed !!! The players are asking .. and wait for this .. it will blow your mind ... PVE/High sec/low sec where certain levels of gear are restricted OR do SP restricted matches that slightly seperates the players into different bands maybe 500k - 5m sp and 5m sp + get put against each other rather than sticking guys just out of the academy v guys with 30m SP Why don't you stop stomping new players and turning them away from the game and go and push this matter to CCP so they can actually do something about it and maybe .. attract some new players instead ?? This is why I think you are an awful CPM and should step down from the position, you're clueless and useless sweetie, I NEVER said matchmaking wasnt a problem, of COURSE its a problem. I was just identifying what i think people who are against pub proto are thinking right now. I know you have some strange vendetta against me but please stop embarrassing yourself. Dust 514 101 // Dust 514 Wiki
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8207	Posted - 2013.12.02 22:52:00 - [23] - Quote I basically got proto gear just so I could never use it ISK / Vids / Stream
Tch Tch Red Shirts Away Team 22	Posted - 2013.12.02 22:53:00 - [24] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: WELL, some people believe that because there is no matchmaking in pub games, that people shouldnt be allowed to use proto. While I understand this mentality it wont stop me from using my proto gear because if i have it, I will use it. So CCPs official position it is ok in hi sec space to stomp. It's ok to redline snipe into the spawn points. Better yet do it with a tank. Fine to take on newberries with 3 tanks in a 6 vs 6 ambush because the squad can afford it. It's ok to bring in ADV and better scanners into high Sec and camp the single objective and spam scan every 5 seconds. Almost need a seizure warning with all the flashing between you've been scanned / now you havn't. I thought it was because Scotty was broken that I've been in matches with 16 newberries vs 16 proto squads. Maybe the issue is not the tools but those who can't see how to grow a player base. FYI in Eve there is Concord in the highsec and always ways to even things up. Sure it is harsh but at least you can look at the map for hot spots. Here you have no Intel and have to put up with a broken matchmaker with people who are fine exploiting it to the max. Enjoying DUST, would enjoy it more with more players. Not worried about dying I'm a meat shield. Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.
jenza aranda BetaMax. 2300	Posted - 2013.12.02 22:57:00 - [25] - Quote Luna Angelo wrote: ....Ugh. My point is, it's bad for the game. And Jenza, as a CPM, you should be setting an example, not destroying the fun. IT'S A GAME!!!! WE HAVE PC AND FW FOR LO-SEC!!!! Pubs are HI-SEC. so according to you i should compromise more fun than I already am by not using the gear i invested SP in so not to ruin other people's fun... Dust 514 101 // Dust 514 Wiki
jenza aranda BetaMax. 2300	Posted - 2013.12.02 22:59:00 - [26] - Quote Tch Tch wrote: jenza aranda wrote: WELL, some people believe that because there is no matchmaking in pub games, that people shouldnt be allowed to use proto. While I understand this mentality it wont stop me from using my proto gear because if i have it, I will use it. So CCPs official position it is ok in hi sec space to stomp. It's ok to redline snipe into the spawn points. Better yet do it with a tank. Fine to take on newberries with 3 tanks in a 6 vs 6 ambush because the squad can afford it. It's ok to bring in ADV and better scanners into high Sec and camp the single objective and spam scan every 5 seconds. Almost need a seizure warning with all the flashing between you've been scanned / now you havn't. I thought it was because Scotty was broken that I've been in matches with 16 newberries vs 16 proto squads. Maybe the issue is not the tools but those who can't see how to grow a player base. FYI in Eve there is Concord in the highsec and always ways to even things up. Sure it is harsh but at least you can look at the map for hot spots. Here you have no Intel and have to put up with a broken matchmaker with people who are fine exploiting it to the max. Enjoying DUST, would enjoy it more with more players. Not worried about dying I'm a meat shield. Me Gëá CCP. And i never said pubstomping was good. I just said i wasnt not going to do it while i have it. I am actually working quite hard to find ways to improve the NPE because pubstomping is certainly part of it. Dust 514 101 // Dust 514 Wiki
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1106	Posted - 2013.12.02 23:07:00 - [27] - Quote You see protostomping only occurs because of the kind of matchmaking that we have. Its a connection based matchmaker that pairs younwith people where you will get the best performance. Which is lovely, it works brilliantly, with exception to PC, I always get 30fps, the longest time to find a match so far has been 12 seconds. But there is a problem. We need a performance based matchmaking layer ABOVE that, this will eliminate the PROTOSTOMPING phenomenon. For those of you are unware of how this works. Each match the computer logs your KDR, WPM, PROFIT and pretty much any other worthwhile stat and compiles it into a meta score. Effectively a score of your performance (for the duration of this explanation I will refer to it as your notoriety). Your notoriety won't include things like the meta level of your gear, if you spent most of your time in a tank, or if only ever use sidearms. The matchmaker will then group people together based on their notoriety. The more notorious you the harder your enemies will be. Unlike a meta based matchmaking system, this will produce much more evenly based matches, eliminate multi tier stomping and generally improve the game. The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
J0LLY R0G3R Unkn0wn Killers Renegade Alliance 226	Posted - 2013.12.02 23:32:00 - [28] - Quote Michael Cratar wrote: The whole point of the game atm is to improve your merc. Right? So why is it frowned apon to use prototype equipment when the whole point of the game atm is to get said equipment. If you are tired of getting owned by someone. Why not, oh I dont know, get better at the game? I have proto gear. It wont stop you from getting owned. Id much rather be "PWOTOW STAWMPED" then be in a match with people who barely know how to walk forward without getting stuck on a wall let alone know how to shoot a gun. This is AS BAD a cod. Seriously. Rant over EDIT: Read Gorra Snell's post. He/she makes a very good point! If she falls for it being a "game" u have a keeper. XD Indeed, chase me friend XD
Michael Cratar Fenrir's Wolves Zero-Day 268	Posted - 2013.12.02 23:46:00 - [29] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I basically got proto gear just so I could never use it You are a saint. The question is not if I can or can not, but who is going to stop me? Beta Vet
Kaughst 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 61	Posted - 2013.12.02 23:48:00 - [30] - Quote Tch Tch wrote: jenza aranda wrote: WELL, some people believe that because there is no matchmaking in pub games, that people shouldnt be allowed to use proto. While I understand this mentality it wont stop me from using my proto gear because if i have it, I will use it. So CCPs official position it is ok in hi sec space to stomp. It's ok to redline snipe into the spawn points. Better yet do it with a tank. Fine to take on newberries with 3 tanks in a 6 vs 6 ambush because the squad can afford it. It's ok to bring in ADV and better scanners into high Sec and camp the single objective and spam scan every 5 seconds. Almost need a seizure warning with all the flashing between you've been scanned / now you havn't. I thought it was because Scotty was broken that I've been in matches with 16 newberries vs 16 proto squads. Maybe the issue is not the tools but those who can't see how to grow a player base. FYI in Eve there is Concord in the highsec and always ways to even things up. Sure it is harsh but at least you can look at the map for hot spots. Here you have no Intel and have to put up with a broken matchmaker with people who are fine exploiting it to the max. Enjoying DUST, would enjoy it more with more players. Not worried about dying I'm a meat shield. Yes. The ice interdictions from the goons, and RVB taking up alot of highsec POCOs shows that large alliances and corporations can go around high sec space causing havoc. Even if you did have a way to relegate new players to a area that does not stop old players from making new accounts, squading up and using their knowledge of weapons,maps and basic fittings to go out and dominating, maybe there is a equal footing in gear but not experience. I remember when the battle academy was drawn out longer that people I knew would start new characters just to get easy kills. Still, PVP is not a good way to start off playing Dust and having PVE in the future the beginning point will go a long way to easing people into New Eden much like Eve. What it comes down to is the NPE and making SP accrual easier to manage. I also do know CCP has in the past made STD, ADV and PRO less of a reach apart by making the stats closer between meta levels. Step 1: Take Districts Step 2: ??? Step 3: Profit Cow for Kaughst

Michael Cratar Fenrir's Wolves Zero-Day 268	Posted - 2013.12.02 23:48:00 - [31] - Quote mini rehak wrote: This is New Eden, it's not fair. I spent my SP to get proto gear and you bet your ass i'm going to use it use. Running a proto fit does NOT make people god it just means you can't fight stupid when you see them. Yeah a guy running a proto suit MIGHT seem OP if you run at them going full ****. Think a bit before you shoot people. HTFU! ^^^ Knows what he is talking about. The question is not if I can or can not, but who is going to stop me? Beta Vet**
Cpt Merdock The Exemplars Top Men. 138	Posted - 2013.12.02 23:51:00 - [32] - Quote Michael Cratar wrote: The whole point of the game atm is to improve your merc. Right? So why is it frowned apon to use prototype equipment when the whole point of the game atm is to get said equipment. If you are tired of getting owned by someone. Why not, oh I dont know, get better at the game? I have proto gear. It wont stop you from getting owned. Id much rather be "PWOTOW STAWMPED" then be in a match with people who barely know how to walk forward without getting stuck on a wall let alone know how to shoot a gun. This is AS BAD a cod. Seriously. Rant over EDIT: Read Gorra Snell's post. He/she makes a very good point! Hard to simply get good at the game when people dont have access to proto yet bud. Getting killed by nothing but proto slows that down as well. Although I agree, I earned it and should be able to use it. I dont blame proto users for using it, but there needs to be something done in game where you can play against your own gear level. Maybe match making done based on SP.
Zelorian Dexter snr 8thDivision 95	Posted - 2013.12.03 00:04:00 - [33] - Quote Ok were mercs. Were paid to do a job. That job is to attack or defend districts. Be it either Corp owned or npc. Now I dont see it as pubstomping. I see it as aggressive suppression of a enfeebled enemy. Also this has been going on forever and will continue until the end of time
danthrax martin Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2013.12.03 00:22:00 - [34] - Quote I got more creative and suicidal. Dual swarm commando for those tanks and trucks that make it to our initial spawn after 15 seconds of play. And a logi racing around doing drop uplinks past the front lines so my team can get out of the frikken hills. I also have a sacrifitial sentinel to distract and take fire so the berries can take their shots. Otherwise i do basic assault and frontline fit when it seems "mellow". Maybe i listen to too much maiden... The Trooper... Yeah... I suck First to die, and i dont cry, even after the thale sends my brain spray to the sky, before the orbital makes me pie!
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1829	Posted - 2013.12.03 00:34:00 - [35] - Quote I know I can't use Smartbombs in High-sec with out being turned into pulp, so Why can't CCP disallow proto gear in pubs (Could use it in FW or PC just not pubs) Level 1 Forum Warrior I'm a bittervet, if I seem like a douche it's because of your stupidity
Tch Tch Red Shirts Away Team 22	Posted - 2013.12.03 00:46:00 - [36] - Quote Michael Cratar wrote: mini rehak wrote: This is New Eden, it's not fair. I spent my SP to get proto gear and you bet your ass i'm going to use it use. Running a proto fit does NOT make people god it just means you can't fight stupid when you see them. Yeah a guy running a proto suit MIGHT seem OP if you run at them going full ******. Think a bit before you shoot people. HTFU! ^^^ Knows what he is talking about. Really? What is the counter to scan spam? Consider the amount of points it costs compared to how many a new player has. How can you not come straight at an opponent if you are lit up like a Xmas tree? New players do not have level 5 scout and a complex dampener but they are facing ADV and better scanners in a majority of pub matches. So how can a noob do anything if all flanking does mean that you are by yourself. Scanners with no draw back mean that the noobs cannot counter better equipment with good tactics. Scanners mean that it reduces it to who can put the most gear and peeps at the point of conflict. No chance for a noob to get the jump on a better equipped player. Might as well attach bells to our shoes. Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.
Badonk Adonk Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 73	Posted - 2013.12.03 00:47:00 - [37] - Quote Lol jenza you are a condescending beach, maybe you are related to Iron Wolf Sabre?
Kane Fyea 2306	Posted - 2013.12.03 00:49:00 - [38] - Quote Michael Cratar wrote: Luna Angelo wrote: Michael Cratar wrote: The whole point of the game atm is to improve your merc. Right? So why is it frowned apon to use prototype equipment when the whole point of the game atm is to get said equipment. If you are tired of getting owned by someone. Why not, oh I dont know, get better at the game? I have proto gear. It wont stop you from getting owned. Id much rather be "PWOTOW STAWMPED" then be in a match with people who barely know how to walk forward without getting stuck on a wall let alone know how to shoot a gun. This is AS BAD a cod. Seriously. Rant over And how are you supposed to improve your skills when you get killed every 5 seconds. You try something for me. Create an alt, go into Academy, beat them to a bloody pulp, then join a regular Pub match. I tried it. It's vicious. Trust me. I did. I still do. And its fun a f**k. I could be on my alt right now and you would never know. Spooky. Do you brick tank your amarr assault/logi? If so I think I went against you yesterday or the day before and all I gotta say is that was a great match. All I know is that the person had Michael in his name.
Luna Angelo We Who Walk Alone 260	Posted - 2013.12.03 01:07:00 - [39] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: Luna Angelo wrote: ....Ugh. My point is, it's bad for the game. And Jenza, as a CPM, you should be setting an example, not destroying the fun. IT'S A GAME!!!! WE HAVE PC AND FW FOR LO-SEC!!!! Pubs are HI-SEC. so according to you i should compromise more fun than I already am by not using the gear i invested SP in so not to ruin other people's fun... No, according to me, you need to be a LEADER. You are a childish, KDR chaser, how you became CPM, I'll never know. BTW, use your gear, keep it out of Hi-Sec, that's all. Names of playstyles
Lason Rift Dark Praetorian Order 3	Posted - 2013.12.03 01:08:00 - [40] - Quote Cpt Merdock wrote: Michael Cratar wrote: OP Hard to simply get good at the game when people dont have access to proto yet bud. Getting killed by nothing but proto slows that down as well. Although I agree, I earned it and should be able to use it. I dont blame proto users for using it, but there needs to be something done in game where you can play against your own gear level. Maybe match making done based on SP. Matchmaking based on SP probably isn't a good option either. High SP could equal high versatility, not necessarily focused ability. In order for an SP based MM system to work, it'd have to compare tree by tree, or at least category by category and you'd never get a full match. Plus you'd have to weight some trees heavier than others because AR specialized players going up against AV specialized players would be a wash even with equivalent SP. Nope, match making needs to be based on the player's performance stats. I think something like Monkey Mac's system above would be a good way to go about match making. That way terrible players like me get matched up with other terrible players, and good players get matched up with good players, the way it's supposed to be.

Tch Tch Red Shirts Away Team 22	Posted - 2013.12.03 01:44:00 - [41] - Quote Should there be a weighted WP game arena mode. 50 WP for a Proto suit or weapon 5 WP per proto slot 30 for ADV suit or weapon 3 per ADV slot 10 for STD/MLT suit or weapon 1 per slot used So its no points for standing still, red zone for all. Not the first team to lose all the clones but the first to 5000 WP. So it becomes a case of you want to play it go for it, but you are worth more points to the opposition. Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.
mini rehak The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 145	Posted - 2013.12.03 03:59:00 - [42] - Quote Tch Tch wrote: Michael Cratar wrote: mini rehak wrote: This is New Eden, it's not fair. I spent my SP to get proto gear and you bet your ass i'm going to use it use. Running a proto fit does NOT make people god it just means you can't fight stupid when you see them. Yeah a guy running a proto suit MIGHT seem OP if you run at them going full ******. Think a bit before you shoot people. HTFU! ^^^ Knows what he is talking about. Really? What is the counter to scan spam? Consider the amount of points it costs compared to how many a new player has. How can you not come straight at an opponent if you are lit up like a Xmas tree? New players do not have level 5 scout and a complex dampener but they are facing ADV and better scanners in a majority of pub matches. So how can a noob do anything if all flanking does mean that you are by yourself. Scanners with no draw back mean that the noobs cannot counter better equipment with good tactics. Scanners mean that it reduces it to who can put the most gear and peeps at the point of conflict. No chance for a noob to get the jump on a better equipped player. Might as well attach bells to our shoes. What does that have to do with Proto suits? Just because you have a scanner does NOT mean you will win every firefight. There are ways to counter a Scan Spam you just have to be smart enough to figure it out. And besides scanners are broken, CCP needs to give them A good tweaking Know that you mean nothing to me,Nor the lies that seep from your teeth. Won't piss on you if you're on fire.
jenza aranda BetaMax. 2304	Posted - 2013.12.03 09:19:00 - [43] - Quote Luna Angelo wrote: jenza aranda wrote: Luna Angelo wrote: ....Ugh. My point is, it's bad for the game. And Jenza, as a CPM, you should be setting an example, not destroying the fun. IT'S A GAME!!!! WE HAVE PC AND FW FOR LO-SEC!!!! Pubs are HI-SEC. so according to you i should compromise more fun than I already am by not using the gear i invested SP in so not to ruin other people's fun... No, according to me, you need to be a LEADER. You are a childish, KDR chaser, how you became CPM, I'll never know. BTW, use your gear, keep it out of Hi-Sec, that's all. childish? KDR chaser? why not actually talk to me before making silly assumptions about me. I will play this game how is fun to me an I'm sorry but you have no right to dictate how i play this game. Frankly i dont see using proto in public games as a way of crapping on newbies but rather anticipating the other side bringing in their proto gear and responding in kind. But more than anything, this is a game and i dont get paid to be on the CPM so I will play this game in a way that is fun to me and you really dont have any right to demand i do anything less. Do I think matchmaking is a problem? OF COURSE I DO! Its one of the main thing i have been working for with CCP along side the new player experience. Just dont demand that I fit your mold of morality just because I have a tag next to my name. You want to know why I got CPM? Because I care about this game a lot more than clearly you think I do, I have been playing this game since beta day 1 and I have done so much work for the community, sacrificing my own time, money and in one or two situations, my own health to make this game the best I could. So excuse me when i decide if i want to play this game how i see fit. Dust 514 101 // Dust 514 Wiki
Luna Angelo We Who Walk Alone 271	Posted - 2013.12.03 09:23:00 - [44] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: Luna Angelo wrote: jenza aranda wrote: Luna Angelo wrote: ....Ugh. My point is, it's bad for the game. And Jenza, as a CPM, you should be setting an example, not destroying the fun. IT'S A GAME!!!! WE HAVE PC AND FW FOR LO-SEC!!!! Pubs are HI-SEC. so according to you i should compromise more fun than I already am by not using the gear i invested SP in so not to ruin other people's fun... No, according to me, you need to be a LEADER. You are a childish, KDR chaser, how you became CPM, I'll never know. BTW, use your gear, keep it out of Hi-Sec, that's all. childish? KDR chaser? why not actually talk to me before making silly assumptions about me. I will play this game how is fun to me an I'm sorry but you have no right to dictate how i play this game. Frankly i dont see using proto in public games as a way of crapping on newbies but rather anticipating the other side bringing in their proto gear and responding in kind. But more than anything, this is a game and i dont get paid to be on the CPM so I will play this game in a way that is fun to me and you really dont have any right to demand i do anything less. Do I think matchmaking is a problem? OF COURSE I DO! Its one of the main thing i have been working for with CCP along side the new player experience. Just dont demand that I fit your mold of morality just because I have a tag next to my name. You want to know why I got CPM? Because I care about this game a lot more than clearly you think I do, I have been playing this game since beta day 1 and I have done so much work for the community, sacrificing my own time, money and in one or two situations, my own health to make this game the best I could. So excuse me when i decide if i want to play this game how i see fit. If you would look up my other posts, I clearly state elsewhere that I don't care if you use proto gear, keep it fout o hi-sec. FW and PC is MADE for proto. I'm sorry I showed disrespect, i just don't respect your decision when you see a problem to add to it, when you should be leading the people. You are our representative, after all. Names of playstyles
8213 BIG BAD W0LVES 924	Posted - 2013.12.03 09:24:00 - [45] - Quote Michael Cratar wrote: The whole point of the game atm is to improve your merc. Right? So why is it frowned apon to use prototype equipment when the whole point of the game atm is to get said equipment. If you are tired of getting owned by someone. Why not, oh I dont know, get better at the game? I have proto gear. It wont stop you from getting owned. Id much rather be "PWOTOW STAWMPED" then be in a match with people who barely know how to walk forward without getting stuck on a wall let alone know how to shoot a gun. This is AS BAD a cod. Seriously. Rant over EDIT: Read Gorra Snell's post. He/she makes a very good point! I PROMISE that if you started this game today, you'd see it in a different light. Getting gear is indeed a purpose in this game. Giving new players a safe haven from being destroyed by it is another. When was the last time a Militia Starter fit killed you in a 1v1 gunfight? Because i can't remember the last time it's happened to me. They may get a kill on me when it's 2,3,4,5,6,or 7 on 1, but never in a 1v1. If you want to beat your chest and claim kingship over the pub matches full of starter fit noobs while using your proto, be my guest. But when you come up against real competition, don't btch when you get your a* handed to you.
Cenex Langly 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 453	Posted - 2013.12.03 09:48:00 - [46] - Quote Cosgar wrote: People lack foresight on bigger issues like matchmaking and new player experience. Plain and simple. People are simply acting defensive and trying not to die themselves. It's a survival instinct. They are not supposed to worry about the new player experience. That is the job of the developers. Players will do what they can to be the best, as they should. They should not shoulder the burdens of the community when the developers should be working to resolve these issues. Just look at EON and TeamPlayerz and how they failed miserably to "fix" PC with their planet fight club. What a joke... Now they are wiped out of existence for trying to control the game. Newb
Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES 690	Posted - 2013.12.03 09:58:00 - [47] - Quote Cenex Langly wrote: Cosgar wrote: People lack foresight on bigger issues like matchmaking and new player experience. Plain and simple. People are simply acting defensive and trying not to die themselves. It's a survival instinct. They are not supposed to worry about the new player experience. That is the job of the developers. Players will do what they can to be the best, as they should. They should not shoulder the burdens of the community when the developers should be working to resolve these issues. Just look at EON and TeamPlayerz and how they failed miserably to "fix" PC with their planet fight club. What a joke... Now they are wiped out of existence for trying to control the game. this is bullshit. It takes no effort to pull your guys back. If your so tough, you could easily retake the objective. Ifind if I leave the enemy at least one objective I get more points anyway. Who wants to run in and out of the redline killing snipers for the last half of battle. the result is the red berries get some points and a bit of experience. They also think they accomplished something. Every one has a good fight.
Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 95	Posted - 2013.12.03 14:47:00 - [48] - Quote Luna Angelo wrote: ....Ugh. My point is, it's bad for the game. And Jenza, as a CPM, you should be setting an example, not destroying the fun. IT'S A GAME!!!! WE HAVE PC AND FW FOR LO-SEC!!!! Pubs are HI-SEC. And our point is that you are making the game too simple and easy-mode for all the QQ's who haven't REALLY understood the point of the game. Stop trying to turn the game into a carebear, superfriends, children's themepark! It's one hell of a difficult game on purpose. Just like EVE is. What needs to be fixed is the mentality of the players, not the difficulty of the game. Players need to have a better academy where they learn early on that teaming up is better than solo. They need to understand that this isn't some pansy ass themepark MMO that wants them to win all the time. People need to learn that for every winner that has to be many losses and losers on the way to that goal. Deal with the losses and overcome and win in your own time. Because the harder fought victories are more fun and memorable than the easy ones. Null-sec, low-sec, or hi-sec - It's all still EVE Universe where nothing is guaranteed and nothing is ever fair as it is in other games. It's emergent gameplay. It's like playing any other game on insanity mode. I agree having PVE would satisfy the QQ's that want to have a mode where they can have fun, but that would take away from the numbers of players available for the other matches right now and kill the game even worse. Get players to understand what this game really IS and how difficult it is and why that makes it better than the mamby pamby Barney-land play games that everyone else is used to. You want hard-core? Come play DUST see if you are up for the challenge!
trraacx Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 30	Posted - 2013.12.03 15:00:00 - [49] - Quote This is why CEOpyrex is right in his quest to not have the CPM. Having someone on the CPM start a reponse with "Sweetie" clarifies that the CPM isn't there for the average player's interest, he is there for his own. I didn't read past "Sweetie", maybe he had something valid to say. I'm guessing he didn't acknowledge the valid points raised by the post he was responding to. All of these pubstomping threads are pointless. Those against them are right in their view that it has to hurt new player retention. The pubstompers are correct in that they shouldn't have to care about that. This guy on the CPM and CCP are wrong because they don't seem to understand it is a problem that CCP should address. jenza aranda wrote: Karl Marx II wrote: jenza aranda wrote: WELL, some people believe that because there is no matchmaking in pub games, that people shouldnt be allowed to use proto. While I understand this mentality it wont stop me from using my proto gear because if i have it, I will use it. HUH ? Where in the hell did you come to that conclusion ?? No wonder the matchmaking system is awful if the CPM's supposed to be pressing for issues to be fixed don't see it as a problem it'll never get fixed !!! The players are asking .. and wait for this .. it will blow your mind ... PVE/High sec/low sec where certain levels of gear are restricted OR do SP restricted matches that slightly seperates the players into different bands maybe 500k - 5m sp and 5m sp + get put against each other rather than sticking guys just out of the academy v guys with 30m SP Why don't you stop stomping new players and turning them away from the game and go and push this matter to CCP so they can actually do something about it and maybe .. attract some new players instead ?? This is why I think you are an awful CPM and should step down from the position, you're clueless and useless sweetie, I NEVER said matchmaking wasnt a problem, of COURSE its a problem. I was just identifying what i think people who are against pub proto are thinking right now. I know you have some strange vendetta against me but please stop embarrassing yourself.
Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 95	Posted - 2013.12.03 15:03:00 - [50] - Quote Luna Angelo wrote: If you would look up my other posts, I clearly state elsewhere that I don't care if you use proto gear, keep it fout o hi-sec. FW and PC is MADE for proto. I'm sorry I showed disrespect, i just don't respect your decision when you see a problem to add to it, when you should be leading the people. You are our representative, after all. Where does this stupid attitude that certain things are "designed" for certain purposes come from? I can use officer gear in public matches if I wanted to. There is nothing in this game stopping me from doing it. It is an option and something that I can choose to do and risk if I want to take that risk. Similarly there is nothing that says I cannot go and use an AR to shoot at a tank. it's kinda pointless, but I might not be doing it to destroy the tank, i may be a distraction. So why take that option away from me just because you wouldn't do it? This game is about a "sandbox" where we are given the tools to play with any which way we can come up with. I may not wanna play with the toy dump truck like you do - haul the dirt away. I may instead decide that it makes a better shovel and use it to dig a bigger hole than the toy backhoe does. Similarly instead of sniping with a sniper rifle, I may decide to snipe with a forge gun. The devs have no real clue as to what the best or optimum way to use something in the game really is. They have their theories when the created the stuff, but one they put it into play that is the real crucible where WE the players make the tools do what WE want them to. Why do you want them to take that ability from you? I suppose next you want the government to take away all your freedoms and tell you where to work, what to eat, when to sleep because it's for the good of society after all. That is the same argument you are making here, that the rest of us should play the way you want us to for the "good of the game." I believe that the freedom to play the game the way I want to play it or the way that another wants to play it IS what will ultimately make this game better than any other. This is ultimately what people are misunderstanding about the "big picture" of this game.

low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 945	Posted - 2013.12.03 15:03:00 - [51] - Quote because it's poor mathematics to use prototype gear when your maximum payout is 500k isk.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 945	Posted - 2013.12.03 15:04:00 - [52] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: Luna Angelo wrote: jenza aranda wrote: Luna Angelo wrote: ....Ugh. My point is, it's bad for the game. And Jenza, as a CPM, you should be setting an example, not destroying the fun. IT'S A GAME!!!! WE HAVE PC AND FW FOR LO-SEC!!!! Pubs are HI-SEC. so according to you i should compromise more fun than I already am by not using the gear i invested SP in so not to ruin other people's fun... No, according to me, you need to be a LEADER. You are a childish, KDR chaser, how you became CPM, I'll never know. BTW, use your gear, keep it out of Hi-Sec, that's all. childish? KDR chaser? why not actually talk to me before making silly assumptions about me. I will play this game how is fun to me an I'm sorry but you have no right to dictate how i play this game. Frankly i dont see using proto in public games as a way of crapping on newbies but rather anticipating the other side bringing in their proto gear and responding in kind. But more than anything, this is a game and i dont get paid to be on the CPM so I will play this game in a way that is fun to me and you really dont have any right to demand i do anything less. Do I think matchmaking is a problem? OF COURSE I DO! Its one of the main thing i have been working for with CCP along side the new player experience. Just dont demand that I fit your mold of morality just because I have a tag next to my name. You want to know why I got CPM? Because I care about this game a lot more than clearly you think I do, I have been playing this game since beta day 1 and I have done so much work for the community, sacrificing my own time, money and in one or two situations, my own health to make this game the best I could. So excuse me when i decide if i want to play this game how i see fit. you're a carebear in eve. it's no wonder you're proto-stomping noobs in dust.
taxi bastard Minor Trueblood 32	Posted - 2013.12.03 15:14:00 - [53] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: Luna Angelo wrote: jenza aranda wrote: Luna Angelo wrote: ....Ugh. My point is, it's bad for the game. And Jenza, as a CPM, you should be setting an example, not destroying the fun. IT'S A GAME!!!! WE HAVE PC AND FW FOR LO-SEC!!!! Pubs are HI-SEC. so according to you i should compromise more fun than I already am by not using the gear i invested SP in so not to ruin other people's fun... No, according to me, you need to be a LEADER. You are a childish, KDR chaser, how you became CPM, I'll never know. BTW, use your gear, keep it out of Hi-Sec, that's all. childish? KDR chaser? why not actually talk to me before making silly assumptions about me. I will play this game how is fun to me an I'm sorry but you have no right to dictate how i play this game. Frankly i dont see using proto in public games as a way of crapping on newbies but rather anticipating the other side bringing in their proto gear and responding in kind. But more than anything, this is a game and i dont get paid to be on the CPM so I will play this game in a way that is fun to me and you really dont have any right to demand i do anything less. Do I think matchmaking is a problem? OF COURSE I DO! Its one of the main thing i have been working for with CCP along side the new player experience. Just dont demand that I fit your mold of morality just because I have a tag next to my name. You want to know why I got CPM? Because I care about this game a lot more than clearly you think I do, I have been playing this game since beta day 1 and I have done so much work for the community, sacrificing my own time, money and in one or two situations, my own health to make this game the best I could. So excuse me when i decide if i want to play this game how i see fit. we need gear based battles, then you can proto vs proto and have your fun. as it stands its shite times for new players. I made an alt, 1 game in academy then into the proto stomp, not fun. personally I see your attitude as part of the problem, yes it is your right to play that way but its a big problem for new and casual players alike. if you do want to do good then tell CCP that this is perhaps the biggest issue which needs to be tackled next or player retention will suffer. I have seen some good games die because the developers listen to the vocal few who are not in touch with the majority.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8229	Posted - 2013.12.03 15:20:00 - [54] - Quote taxi bastard wrote: we need gear based battles, then you can proto vs proto and have your fun. as it stands its shite times for new players. I made an alt, 1 game in academy then into the proto stomp, not fun. personally I see your attitude as part of the problem, yes it is your right to play that way but its a big problem for new and casual players alike. if you do want to do good then tell CCP that this is perhaps the biggest issue which needs to be tackled next or player retention will suffer. I have seen some good games die because the developers listen to the vocal few who are not in touch with the majority. I think gear based battles are a horrible idea because they'd be a nightmare to implement, and you'd need all sorts of fits just for different security space. I think gear based rewards are MUCH better, so the militia noob who just killed a proto gets a TON of ISK and WP for that kill, where as the proto who just stomped that noob gets next to nothing for his efforts. ISK / Vids / Stream
Michael Cratar Fenrir's Wolves Zero-Day 275	Posted - 2013.12.03 15:21:00 - [55] - Quote 8213 wrote: Michael Cratar wrote: The whole point of the game atm is to improve your merc. Right? So why is it frowned apon to use prototype equipment when the whole point of the game atm is to get said equipment. If you are tired of getting owned by someone. Why not, oh I dont know, get better at the game? I have proto gear. It wont stop you from getting owned. Id much rather be "PWOTOW STAWMPED" then be in a match with people who barely know how to walk forward without getting stuck on a wall let alone know how to shoot a gun. This is AS BAD a cod. Seriously. Rant over EDIT: Read Gorra Snell's post. He/she makes a very good point! I PROMISE that if you started this game today, you'd see it in a different light. Getting gear is indeed a purpose in this game. Giving new players a safe haven from being destroyed by it is another. When was the last time a Militia Starter fit killed you in a 1v1 gunfight? Because i can't remember the last time it's happened to me. They may get a kill on me when it's 2,3,4,5,6,or 7 on 1, but never in a 1v1. If you want to beat your chest and claim kingship over the pub matches full of starter fit noobs while using your proto, be my guest. But when you come up against real competition, don't btch when you get your a* handed to you. I play a lot of games. Mainly MMOs or other FPS. When I get killed by someone with better gear I TRY TO GET BETTER GEAR. It motivates me to play and get better. If you want a game where everything is balanced somewhat and you don't need to improve in any way besides walking forward while holding L1 WITHOUT hitting walls constantly. Go play cod. Its so easy it hurts my head. And trust me, I'v been on the losing team countless times. I did not lose because they had prototype gear. They won because they were BETTER. And yes, I have lost 1v1 battles with militia gear. Probably because I'm an idiot, but my point still stands. The question is not if I can or can not, but who is going to stop me? Beta Vet
Michael Cratar Fenrir's Wolves Zero-Day 275	Posted - 2013.12.03 15:22:00 - [56] - Quote Tch Tch wrote: Michael Cratar wrote: mini rehak wrote: This is New Eden, it's not fair. I spent my SP to get proto gear and you bet your ass i'm going to use it use. Running a proto fit does NOT make people god it just means you can't fight stupid when you see them. Yeah a guy running a proto suit MIGHT seem OP if you run at them going full ****. Think a bit before you shoot people. HTFU! ^^^ Knows what he is talking about. Really? What is the counter to scan spam? Consider the amount of points it costs compared to how many a new player has. How can you not come straight at an opponent if you are lit up like a Xmas tree? New players do not have level 5 scout and a complex dampener but they are facing ADV and better scanners in a majority of pub matches. So how can a noob do anything if all flanking does mean that you are by yourself. Scanners with no draw back mean that the noobs cannot counter better equipment with good tactics. Scanners mean that it reduces it to who can put the most gear and peeps at the point of conflict. No chance for a noob to get the jump on a better equipped player. Might as well attach bells to our shoes. PRO TIP: Shooting people that have scanners makes them die! EDIT: Took out all of those pesky long quotes. The question is not if I can or can not, but who is going to stop me? Beta Vet**
knight of 6 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 753	Posted - 2013.12.03 15:26:00 - [57] - Quote this just in the point of eve online is to get a titan! "God favors the side with the best artillery" ~ Napoleon Ko6, scout, tanker. CLOSED BETA VET
Michael Cratar Fenrir's Wolves Zero-Day 275	Posted - 2013.12.03 15:28:00 - [58] - Quote knight of 6 wrote: this just in the point of eve online is to get a titan! I think this belongs in the eve forums. Just saying. The question is not if I can or can not, but who is going to stop me? Beta Vet
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1492	Posted - 2013.12.03 15:36:00 - [59] - Quote Karl Marx II wrote: The players are asking .. and wait for this .. it will blow your mind ... PVE/High sec/low sec where certain levels of gear are restricted OR do SP restricted matches that slightly seperates the players into different bands maybe 500k - 5m sp and 5m sp + get put against each other rather than sticking guys just out of the academy v guys with 30m SP Anyone remotely new asking for that will deeply regret it if it gets put in. Vets would love it because all their passive skills will make it super easy to stomp on people who can't figure out how your AR does 15% more damage. Gear restrictions favour those with more passive skills. Those people are not the new players. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
knight of 6 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 754	Posted - 2013.12.03 15:38:00 - [60] - Quote Michael Cratar wrote: knight of 6 wrote: this just in the point of eve online is to get a titan! I think this belongs in the eve forums. Just saying. I'm not sure you got the joke... saying the point of dust is to get proto is like saying the point of eve it to get a titan. neither game has a point an I am deriving humor from drawing that comparison. the point of dust and eve is unique to the player, some want a vast interstellar empire, others will settle for a nice tank and some close friends, neither game has an "end game" except the one the player designs for themself. you see? "God favors the side with the best artillery" ~ Napoleon Ko6, scout, tanker. CLOSED BETA VET

DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8231	Posted - 2013.12.03 15:38:00 - [61] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Karl Marx II wrote: The players are asking .. and wait for this .. it will blow your mind ... PVE/High sec/low sec where certain levels of gear are restricted OR do SP restricted matches that slightly seperates the players into different bands maybe 500k - 5m sp and 5m sp + get put against each other rather than sticking guys just out of the academy v guys with 30m SP Anyone remotely new asking for that will deeply regret it if it gets put in. Vets would love it because all their passive skills will make it super easy to stomp on people who can't figure out how your AR does 15% more damage. Gear restrictions favour those with more passive skills. Those people are not the new players. I personally feel SP based matchmaking with gear based rewards would be the most straight forward solution to this problem. PvE will also help tremendously, but that's still a ways out at best. ISK / Vids / Stream
taxi bastard Minor Trueblood 32	Posted - 2013.12.03 15:45:00 - [62] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: taxi bastard wrote: we need gear based battles, then you can proto vs proto and have your fun. as it stands its shite times for new players. I made an alt, 1 game in academy then into the proto stomp, not fun. personally I see your attitude as part of the problem, yes it is your right to play that way but its a big problem for new and casual players alike. if you do want to do good then tell CCP that this is perhaps the biggest issue which needs to be tackled next or player retention will suffer. I have seen some good games die because the developers listen to the vocal few who are not in touch with the majority. I think gear based battles are a horrible idea because they'd be a nightmare to implement, and you'd need all sorts of fits just for different security space. I think gear based rewards are MUCH better, so the militia noob who just killed a proto gets a TON of ISK and WP for that kill, where as the proto who just stomped that noob gets next to nothing for his efforts. to be honest, even if you get rich being a militia newb and getting 1 or 2 kills a battle its not going to be fun. you play a game not because your paid - but to relax and enjoy yourself. being farmed in gear far better than you have month after month is not fun so you will quit with a lot of isk to give away. beyond that atm you have those who can afford to proto 100% of the time because of PC and those who can't because they are not in PC. ATM I kill proto knowing that for 90% the loss probably means nothing to the person who lost it. I see nothing wrong with being good, proving that your good on a level playing field ( such as what happens in PC) seems to be a luxury for the few. stomping the many by having better stuff/more SPs is a luxury enjoyed by the older players who think they are good. personally I think many of the old guard are against gear based battles because they fear looking very average when they are in competitive battles. fighting to keep the status quo will allow many of these players to keep telling themselves that they are l33t.
trraacx Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 32	Posted - 2013.12.03 15:50:00 - [63] - Quote Luna Angelo, you weren't the one showing disrespect. Luna Angelo wrote: jenza aranda wrote: Luna Angelo wrote: jenza aranda wrote: Luna Angelo wrote: ....Ugh. My point is, it's bad for the game. And Jenza, as a CPM, you should be setting an example, not destroying the fun. IT'S A GAME!!!! WE HAVE PC AND FW FOR LO-SEC!!!! Pubs are HI-SEC. so according to you i should compromise more fun than I already am by not using the gear i invested SP in so not to ruin other people's fun... No, according to me, you need to be a LEADER. You are a childish, KDR chaser, how you became CPM, I'll never know. BTW, use your gear, keep it out of Hi-Sec, that's all. childish? KDR chaser? why not actually talk to me before making silly assumptions about me. I will play this game how is fun to me an I'm sorry but you have no right to dictate how i play this game. Frankly i dont see using proto in public games as a way of crapping on newbies but rather anticipating the other side bringing in their proto gear and responding in kind. But more than anything, this is a game and i dont get paid to be on the CPM so I will play this game in a way that is fun to me and you really dont have any right to demand i do anything less. Do I think matchmaking is a problem? OF COURSE I DO! Its one of the main thing i have been working for with CCP along side the new player experience. Just dont demand that I fit your mold of morality just because I have a tag next to my name. You want to know why I got CPM? Because I care about this game a lot more than clearly you think I do, I have been playing this game since beta day 1 and I have done so much work for the community, sacrificing my own time, money and in one or two situations, my own health to make this game the best I could. So excuse me when i decide if i want to play this game how i see fit. If you would look up my other posts, I clearly state elsewhere that I don't care if you use proto gear, keep it fout o hi-sec. FW and PC is MADE for proto. I'm sorry I showed disrespect, i just don't respect your decision when you see a problem to add to it, when you should be leading the people. You are our representative, after all.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8233	Posted - 2013.12.03 15:52:00 - [64] - Quote Personally I just want a 100% solo option that does not allow people to form squads in the match. Free for all or teams, I don't care, just let me work solo against everyone else working solo and no gear advantage will make up for that. Tricky business this be, I just usually run militia or advanced gear because I'm poor, I like the challenge, and stomping in proto gear is just boring as ****. ISK / Vids / Stream
taxi bastard Minor Trueblood 32	Posted - 2013.12.03 15:53:00 - [65] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Karl Marx II wrote: The players are asking .. and wait for this .. it will blow your mind ... PVE/High sec/low sec where certain levels of gear are restricted OR do SP restricted matches that slightly seperates the players into different bands maybe 500k - 5m sp and 5m sp + get put against each other rather than sticking guys just out of the academy v guys with 30m SP Anyone remotely new asking for that will deeply regret it if it gets put in. Vets would love it because all their passive skills will make it super easy to stomp on people who can't figure out how your AR does 15% more damage. Gear restrictions favour those with more passive skills. Those people are not the new players. passive differences close the gap a huge amount vs passive and gear differences. one is 15-25% the other 50-150% depending on what it is.
steadyhand amarr steadyhands independent mercenarys 1998	Posted - 2013.12.03 16:10:00 - [66] - Quote taxi bastard wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: taxi bastard wrote: we need gear based battles, then you can proto vs proto and have your fun. as it stands its shite times for new players. I made an alt, 1 game in academy then into the proto stomp, not fun. personally I see your attitude as part of the problem, yes it is your right to play that way but its a big problem for new and casual players alike. if you do want to do good then tell CCP that this is perhaps the biggest issue which needs to be tackled next or player retention will suffer. I have seen some good games die because the developers listen to the vocal few who are not in touch with the majority. I think gear based battles are a horrible idea because they'd be a nightmare to implement, and you'd need all sorts of fits just for different security space. I think gear based rewards are MUCH better, so the militia noob who just killed a proto gets a TON of ISK and WP for that kill, where as the proto who just stomped that noob gets next to nothing for his efforts. to be honest, even if you get rich being a militia newb and getting 1 or 2 kills a battle its not going to be fun. you play a game not because your paid - but to relax and enjoy yourself. being farmed in gear far better than you have month after month is not fun so you will quit with a lot of isk to give away. beyond that atm you have those who can afford to proto 100% of the time because of PC and those who can't because they are not in PC. ATM I kill proto knowing that for 90% the loss probably means nothing to the person who lost it. I see nothing wrong with being good, proving that your good on a level playing field ( such as what happens in PC) seems to be a luxury for the few. stomping the many by having better stuff/more SPs is a luxury enjoyed by the older players who think they are good. personally I think many of the old guard are against gear based battles because they fear looking very average when they are in competitive battles. fighting to keep the status quo will allow many of these players to keep telling themselves that they are l33t. Most the old guard have been screaming for matchmaking thanks we find boring matches boring to. That said dust is a team based shooter want to start playing better get a squad. Ccp needs to educate that point to new players tbh "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 96	Posted - 2013.12.03 16:13:00 - [67] - Quote taxi bastard wrote: we need gear based battles, then you can proto vs proto and have your fun. as it stands its shite times for new players. I made an alt, 1 game in academy then into the proto stomp, not fun. personally I see your attitude as part of the problem, yes it is your right to play that way but its a big problem for new and casual players alike. if you do want to do good then tell CCP that this is perhaps the biggest issue which needs to be tackled next or player retention will suffer. I have seen some good games die because the developers listen to the vocal few who are not in touch with the majority. First I agree that the new academy experience needs to be revamped so that the "casual player" get the ***** clue early on that this ain't no ***** casual game! Second, adding in "gear based" matches will KILL THIS GAME! Why? Because it would further divide the limited pool of players even more. It wouldn't fix the problem but make it WORSE. Proto matches would never happen because not enough people and only when arranged for fun by the "lete" alliances. People would play advanced matches and complain about being owned all the time by the "lete" players who should have stayed at the Proto level, but didn't. And finally all your precious newbs would still get WTF OWNED by EVERYONE as EVERYONE would be using you basic/newb level matches to farm for ISK. Yeah I agree this is an issue, but it isn't one for CCP, it is one for players that still haven't figured out how this game actually works yet.
Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 97	Posted - 2013.12.03 16:20:00 - [68] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Personally I just want a 100% solo option that does not allow people to form squads in the match. Free for all or teams, I don't care, just let me work solo against everyone else working solo and no gear advantage will make up for that. Tricky business this be, I just usually run militia or advanced gear because I'm poor, I like the challenge, and stomping in proto gear is just boring as ****. This is a dumb idea. First, you are trying to say that solo play is somehow a superior tactic to teamwork and thus should be rewarded by the game? This is an MMO which inherently means that you went online SPECIFICALLY TO PLAY WITH OTHERS! If you want solo, don't go online. Second, you are taking option and choice of play-style away from players by doing this. Why play in a game where you can choose how to fit your suit etc. when you just force people to your conformity anyways? Why not play COD where the "kit" is already defined for your "role" and be happy there? Here there are no real "roles" there are no forced kits. You play how you like it. If you want to not join a squad and play solo, then go for it. Just understand that your opponent doesn't have to like that and will do whatever they want to.
Michael Cratar Fenrir's Wolves Zero-Day 276	Posted - 2013.12.03 16:58:00 - [69] - Quote knight of 6 wrote: Michael Cratar wrote: knight of 6 wrote: this just in the point of eve online is to get a titan! I think this belongs in the eve forums. Just saying. I'm not sure you got the joke... saying the point of dust is to get proto is like saying the point of eve it to get a titan. neither game has a point an I am deriving humor from drawing that comparison. the point of dust and eve is unique to the player, some want a vast interstellar empire, others will settle for a nice tank and some close friends, neither game has an "end game" except the one the player designs for themself. you see? I did. That's why I liked your status. The question is not if I can or can not, but who is going to stop me? Closed Beta Vet
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 372	Posted - 2013.12.03 17:12:00 - [70] - Quote Luna Angelo wrote: Michael Cratar wrote: The whole point of the game atm is to improve your merc. Right? So why is it frowned apon to use prototype equipment when the whole point of the game atm is to get said equipment. If you are tired of getting owned by someone. Why not, oh I dont know, get better at the game? I have proto gear. It wont stop you from getting owned. Id much rather be "PWOTOW STAWMPED" then be in a match with people who barely know how to walk forward without getting stuck on a wall let alone know how to shoot a gun. This is AS BAD a cod. Seriously. Rant over And how are you supposed to improve your skills when you get killed every 5 seconds. You try something for me. Create an alt, go into Academy, beat them to a bloody pulp, then join a regular Pub match. I tried it. It's vicious. Trust me. This is the main problem, people have played MMO's for a good chunk of their gammng history, and understand when you play one you can't come in as a level 20 and murder a level 90. The FPS players who have played that genre more exclusively don't comprehend that concept well. They think when you join a game with two people and gun's their should be some "even" playing field between the two. That's where alot of the problem stem's with attitude... No MMO player would expect someone to wear noob gear on a level 90 so the level 20 could have a chance... it would be laughable. When I started this game i knew this as fact, There will be people with much better skill's and suit's then I and i will have to play differently to compete with them. If you highly specialize into something you max out somewhat quickly and can catch up or gain competitive footing fairly quick. But the assumption that you should directly compete with Prototype 20m SP players when your right out of Training grounds.. is.. deflating peoples spirit at the general ability to grasp a true MMOFPS concept.

DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8241	Posted - 2013.12.03 17:14:00 - [71] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Personally I just want a 100% solo option that does not allow people to form squads in the match. Free for all or teams, I don't care, just let me work solo against everyone else working solo and no gear advantage will make up for that. Tricky business this be, I just usually run militia or advanced gear because I'm poor, I like the challenge, and stomping in proto gear is just boring as ****. This is a dumb idea. First, you are trying to say that solo play is somehow a superior tactic to teamwork and thus should be rewarded by the game? This is an MMO which inherently means that you went online SPECIFICALLY TO PLAY WITH OTHERS! If you want solo, don't go online. Second, you are taking option and choice of play-style away from players by doing this. Why play in a game where you can choose how to fit your suit etc. when you just force people to your conformity anyways? Why not play COD where the "kit" is already defined for your "role" and be happy there? Here there are no real "roles" there are no forced kits. You play how you like it. If you want to not join a squad and play solo, then go for it. Just understand that your opponent doesn't have to like that and will do whatever they want to. Why would you queue up for a solo match if you're afraid of playing solo? No one took away your Ambush, Skirmish, Domination, FW and PC I also said absolutely nothing about gear restriction, I'm not sure where you pulled that from. ISK / Vids / Stream
Michael Cratar Fenrir's Wolves Zero-Day 277	Posted - 2013.12.03 17:19:00 - [72] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Luna Angelo wrote: Michael Cratar wrote: The whole point of the game atm is to improve your merc. Right? So why is it frowned apon to use prototype equipment when the whole point of the game atm is to get said equipment. If you are tired of getting owned by someone. Why not, oh I dont know, get better at the game? I have proto gear. It wont stop you from getting owned. Id much rather be "PWOTOW STAWMPED" then be in a match with people who barely know how to walk forward without getting stuck on a wall let alone know how to shoot a gun. This is AS BAD a cod. Seriously. Rant over And how are you supposed to improve your skills when you get killed every 5 seconds. You try something for me. Create an alt, go into Academy, beat them to a bloody pulp, then join a regular Pub match. I tried it. It's vicious. Trust me. This is the main problem, people have played MMO's for a good chunk of their gammng history, and understand when you play one you can't come in as a level 20 and murder a level 90. The FPS players who have played that genre more exclusively don't comprehend that concept well. They think when you join a game with two people and gun's their should be some "even" playing field between the two. That's where alot of the problem stem's with attitude... No MMO player would expect someone to wear noob gear on a level 90 so the level 20 could have a chance... it would be laughable. When I started this game i knew this as fact, There will be people with much better skill's and suit's then I and i will have to play differently to compete with them. If you highly specialize into something you max out somewhat quickly and can catch up or gain competitive footing fairly quick. But the assumption that you should directly compete with Prototype 20m SP players when your right out of Training grounds.. is.. deflating peoples spirit at the general ability to grasp a true MMOFPS concept. Thank you. This sums up how I feel about this pretty well. The question is not if I can or can not, but who is going to stop me? Closed Beta Vet
taxi bastard Minor Trueblood 32	Posted - 2013.12.03 17:19:00 - [73] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: taxi bastard wrote: we need gear based battles, then you can proto vs proto and have your fun. as it stands its shite times for new players. I made an alt, 1 game in academy then into the proto stomp, not fun. personally I see your attitude as part of the problem, yes it is your right to play that way but its a big problem for new and casual players alike. if you do want to do good then tell CCP that this is perhaps the biggest issue which needs to be tackled next or player retention will suffer. I have seen some good games die because the developers listen to the vocal few who are not in touch with the majority. First I agree that the new academy experience needs to be revamped so that the "casual player" get the ***** clue early on that this ain't no ***** casual game! Second, adding in "gear based" matches will KILL THIS GAME! Why? Because it would further divide the limited pool of players even more. It wouldn't fix the problem but make it WORSE. Proto matches would never happen because not enough people and only when arranged for fun by the "lete" alliances. People would play advanced matches and complain about being owned all the time by the "lete" players who should have stayed at the Proto level, but didn't. And finally all your precious newbs would still get WTF OWNED by EVERYONE as EVERYONE would be using you basic/newb level matches to farm for ISK. Yeah I agree this is an issue, but it isn't one for CCP, it is one for players that still haven't figured out how this game actually works yet. the pool of players will only get smaller with the current system. if people are shite, they are shite nothing can be done about that, but at least its a bit more balanced and would help grow the game. if the game grows then there will be more people for every level. you talk about limited player base being an issue, this is because many leave dust not long after academy because of feeling of uselessness because of the current huge imbalance between players in battles. your views on everyone farming basic matches as a worst case scenario ........ is a lot better than the current system where newbs are farmed without mercy by proto gear.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8244	Posted - 2013.12.03 17:20:00 - [74] - Quote Bethhy wrote: This is the main problem, people have played MMO's for a good chunk of their gammng history, and understand when you play one you can't come in as a level 20 and murder a level 90. The FPS players who have played that genre more exclusively don't comprehend that concept well. They think when you join a game with two people and gun's their should be some "even" playing field between the two. That's where alot of the problem stem's with attitude... No MMO player would expect someone to wear noob gear on a level 90 so the level 20 could have a chance... it would be laughable. When I started this game i knew this as fact, There will be people with much better skill's and suit's then I and i will have to play differently to compete with them. If you highly specialize into something you max out somewhat quickly and can catch up or gain competitive footing fairly quick. But the assumption that you should directly compete with Prototype 20m SP players when your right out of Training grounds.. is.. deflating peoples spirit at the general ability to grasp a true MMOFPS concept. No MMO player would expect someone wearing noob gear to be dropped into a level 90 zone.... ISK / Vids / Stream
Michael Cratar Fenrir's Wolves Zero-Day 277	Posted - 2013.12.03 17:28:00 - [75] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: No MMO player would expect someone wearing noob gear to be dropped into a level 90 zone.... I would love a game that dose that so much. I feel that games hold your hand too much nowdays. The question is not if I can or can not, but who is going to stop me? Closed Beta Vet
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 372	Posted - 2013.12.03 17:34:00 - [76] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Bethhy wrote: This is the main problem, people have played MMO's for a good chunk of their gammng history, and understand when you play one you can't come in as a level 20 and murder a level 90. The FPS players who have played that genre more exclusively don't comprehend that concept well. They think when you join a game with two people and gun's their should be some "even" playing field between the two. That's where alot of the problem stem's with attitude... No MMO player would expect someone to wear noob gear on a level 90 so the level 20 could have a chance... it would be laughable. When I started this game i knew this as fact, There will be people with much better skill's and suit's then I and i will have to play differently to compete with them. If you highly specialize into something you max out somewhat quickly and can catch up or gain competitive footing fairly quick. But the assumption that you should directly compete with Prototype 20m SP players when your right out of Training grounds.. is.. deflating peoples spirit at the general ability to grasp a true MMOFPS concept. No MMO player would expect someone wearing noob gear to be dropped into a level 90 zone.... Yes matchmaking is interesting as you could see in my edit of that post. At the same time it has happened all the time in MMO's just has been made so the level 90 feel's grimey being in the kiddie pool and picking on the kid's. But completely agree. For whatever benefit's might be present in a new player being pitted against say (generously to CCP matchmaking system) 8 Vet's on each side... The new players may see what the end game of DUST looks like more, but for the disadvantages in game-play for the new player AND the veteran's it makes the experience for both parties very poor. And for what? If you have a prospect new player you have recruited into your Corporation and are bringing them into those games in your veteran squad and essentially "carrying" them then those new players will get a huge advantage... Otherwise it's.. a joke. And the bore of shooting people that are still lost on the map in the face 6 times in a match.. as a Vet.. makes the experience equally as poor.. There is no situation where throwing a bunch of vet's and new players together randomly in a MMOFPS.. is beneficial to both parties.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8246	Posted - 2013.12.03 17:36:00 - [77] - Quote Michael Cratar wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: No MMO player would expect someone wearing noob gear to be dropped into a level 90 zone.... I would love a game that dose that so much. I feel that games hold your hand too much nowdays. So you would love joining an MMO and never being able to progress because the enemies are statistically superior to you in such a way that you couldn't compete regardless of skill? I think we have differing opinions on what makes a good MMO.... ISK / Vids / Stream
Meeko Fent Commando Perkone Caldari State 1701	Posted - 2013.12.03 17:39:00 - [78] - Quote Proof why this game will eventualy die. Listen, come close... NOBODY ******* WANTS TO FIGHT PROTO WITH MILITIA GEAR. Its COMPLETELY onesided, and kills any chance of ANYBODY new coming in. Gawd. Grabs keyboard Now is the time to sign the forum resignation I suppose. Refunding a few AUR militia Blueprints pertaining to vehicles because their respective modules will not exist anymore
Ivy Zalinto Bobbit's Hangmen 70	Posted - 2013.12.03 17:44:00 - [79] - Quote Michael Cratar wrote: The whole point of the game atm is to improve your merc. Right? So why is it frowned apon to use prototype equipment when the whole point of the game atm is to get said equipment. If you are tired of getting owned by someone. Why not, oh I dont know, get better at the game? I have proto gear. It wont stop you from getting owned. Id much rather be "PWOTOW STAWMPED" then be in a match with people who barely know how to walk forward without getting stuck on a wall let alone know how to shoot a gun. This is AS BAD a cod. Seriously. Rant over EDIT: Read Gorra Snell's post. He/she makes a very good point! Proto stomping is more of an issue than people think. Its not that bad from their end, or even the receiving end if you have similarly built suits, but for new players that have 3 armor upgrade and 3 shield upgrade and thats it, its kinda terrible. Im a seasoned player and the time to kill for my suit is less than half a second of solid hits. Granted I play scout, but my scout suit has more ehp and survability than other suits do; especially starting fits. The issue isnt proto's at all in regular matches, its that newer players get no good experiences in the majority of the matches they join. I do my best to recruit people into the game and teach them, but some of them have such a bad time due to matchmaking luck of the draw and their newness to the game that they dont come back to the game at all. Itd be fine if it was one in ten matches, but just last night I played at least 10 matches and 6 of them were proto stomps. Dedicated scout. Caldari loyalist. Pistol supremacy.
Michael Cratar Fenrir's Wolves Zero-Day 278	Posted - 2013.12.03 17:50:00 - [80] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Michael Cratar wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: No MMO player would expect someone wearing noob gear to be dropped into a level 90 zone.... I would love a game that dose that so much. I feel that games hold your hand too much nowdays. So you would love joining an MMO and never being able to progress because the enemies are statistically superior to you in such a way that you couldn't compete regardless of skill? I think we have differing opinions on what makes a good MMO.... No one said you had to stay and get owned. Why not just leave to go to a lower level zone? AKA Picking you fights? There is an old game called S.T.A.L.K.E.R that dose this perfectly. especially with the Misery mod If anything, CCP should tell newberries what they are getting them selves into. That way they will know the game is supposed to be hard. propper balancing of weapons could help with this as well. The question is not if I can or can not, but who is going to stop me? Closed Beta Vet

Michael Cratar Fenrir's Wolves Zero-Day 278	Posted - 2013.12.03 17:54:00 - [81] - Quote Ivy Zalinto wrote: Proto stomping is more of an issue than people think. Its not that bad from their end, or even the receiving end if you have similarly built suits, but for new players that have 3 armor upgrade and 3 shield upgrade and thats it, its kinda terrible. Im a seasoned player and the time to kill for my suit is less than half a second of solid hits. Granted I play scout, but my scout suit has more ehp and survability than other suits do; especially starting fits. The issue isnt proto's at all in regular matches, its that newer players get no good experiences in the majority of the matches they join. I do my best to recruit people into the game and teach them, but some of them have such a bad time due to matchmaking luck of the draw and their newness to the game that they dont come back to the game at all. Itd be fine if it was one in ten matches, but just last night I played at least 10 matches and 6 of them were proto stomps. Wow, a counter argument that proves a good point. Honestly, I agree. Proper balancing of weapons, frames, and mods will help with this. The question is not if I can or can not, but who is going to stop me? Closed Beta Vet
Tek Hound Death In Xcess Corporation 152	Posted - 2013.12.03 17:56:00 - [82] - Quote I have no problem with people using proto.I find It very dumb to look down on a proto user.what are you spending sp on if not to get upgrade?Last time I checked proto was the top and reason to skill up.Now what I do have a problem with is noibs being feed to the sharks . It's not the players fault for using proto(you put the sp in use it)but the game design that throws noobberries at their feet.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 373	Posted - 2013.12.03 17:58:00 - [83] - Quote Michael Cratar wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Michael Cratar wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: No MMO player would expect someone wearing noob gear to be dropped into a level 90 zone.... I would love a game that dose that so much. I feel that games hold your hand too much nowdays. So you would love joining an MMO and never being able to progress because the enemies are statistically superior to you in such a way that you couldn't compete regardless of skill? I think we have differing opinions on what makes a good MMO.... No one said you had to stay and get owned. Why not just leave to go to a lower level zone? AKA Picking you fights? There is an old game called S.T.A.L.K.E.R that dose this perfectly. especially with the Misery mod If anything, CCP should tell newberries what they are getting them selves into. That way they will know the game is supposed to be hard. propper balancing of weapons could help with this as well. It's been said more times then i can count build a sandbox matchmaking system. Public Match Risk Versus Reward System High Security Space - Limited to Militia Gear, AA full strength, Limited Skill Point/ISK rewards. Low Security Space - Limited to Advanced Gear, AA strength significantly reduced, Increased Skill Point/ISK rewards. Null Security Space - No Gear Limitations, No AA, Maxed out Skill Point and ISK rewards.
Tch Tch Red Shirts Away Team 27	Posted - 2013.12.03 21:20:00 - [84] - Quote mini rehak wrote: Tch Tch wrote: Michael Cratar wrote: mini rehak wrote: This is New Eden, it's not fair. I spent my SP to get proto gear and you bet your ass i'm going to use it use. Running a proto fit does NOT make people god it just means you can't fight stupid when you see them. Yeah a guy running a proto suit MIGHT seem OP if you run at them going full ******. Think a bit before you shoot people. HTFU! ^^^ Knows what he is talking about. Really? What is the counter to scan spam? Consider the amount of points it costs compared to how many a new player has. How can you not come straight at an opponent if you are lit up like a Xmas tree? New players do not have level 5 scout and a complex dampener but they are facing ADV and better scanners in a majority of pub matches. So how can a noob do anything if all flanking does mean that you are by yourself. Scanners with no draw back mean that the noobs cannot counter better equipment with good tactics. Scanners mean that it reduces it to who can put the most gear and peeps at the point of conflict. No chance for a noob to get the jump on a better equipped player. Might as well attach bells to our shoes. What does that have to do with Proto suits? Just because you have a scanner does NOT mean you will win every firefight. There are ways to counter a Scan Spam you just have to be smart enough to figure it out. And besides scanners are broken, CCP needs to give them A good tweaking I out fit MLT/Basic Dampeners on all my main fits. The only other counter to scan spam is to stay out of range which is really difficult if you want to take an objective or in an ambush. You can do this by deep redline sniping but that isn't a preference. My main which is a noob account too only has 2 million SP in a balanced manner. I have ADV Dampener(s) on a few of those. And even then im fluctuating between scan / not scanned as mulitple scanners cycle through. The life span on my MLT triple ADV scanner is short but does surprise the crap out of some players, when i have the SP for shotgun it will be interesting. But as a new player that is an expensive isk and SP option. So again its not about proto equipment or squad tactics. It's about players who already have an advantage in SP, equipment, isk etc then going easy mode and using the scanner to remove any tactical component of the game. Also from an SP perspective why invest in increased precision and/or range. Level five increased range will get you 225 square meters of coverage at your innate scanning level on a medium suit. Compared with 10,000 square meters with a 100m scanner doing ballerina twirls. Whilst passive is always on, actives other pro is it provides better precision than the precision skill. So one skill trumps two specialist skills. Add to that active isn't lighting up the user. Our suits are all fairly stealthy and submarine tactics go a long way. It is strange to have an active ping that does not identify the end user. Even a redline sniper leaves a trail, why the heck not this electronic fog horn? Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.
Dbukalski Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2013.12.03 23:29:00 - [85] - Quote im an eve 4 years player so i understand sandbox, ruthless unfair eve In bf4 i have 2.5 k/d. 88% win, 1300spm for those who play so i understand team/squad tactics. How to integrate vehicles. I have 4.5mil sp in dust with 60mil in the bank. Week one i played and hated it. Going 2-18, getting 600wp for all my efforts out of 400k u get per week for not playing. If i used anything but free starter fits i basically made no money. Week two i started sniping with charge sniper rifle and some damage mods. It takes 4 charged shots to kill many of the suits out there. 1 to kill other newbs. Which was the only way for me to get positive kill/death about 12-3 per match. I have to stay far from battle because my suit costs 60k so 2 or 3 deaths is all i can handle to break even. But at least i was finally offering a positive return for my teams clone count. Killing 10 more vs losing 15 more was a 35 clone swing in my performance. Which is probably more useful than failing to take control points. Week 3 i stopped playing at all. Who wants to get murdered 3-18 for months on end or camp in boring hill getting 600wp extra per battle when u can just AFK in the mcc and farm 400k sp a week and profit 100k isk per battle. So now my team cam shoot at my head while i watch tv when im not playing a better game. One of these days ill have the gear to enjoy the game if i havent fully quit by then. As more ps4 games come out if this game doesnt transition with better graphics and gameplay ill never get past the camping stage. Who knows maybe in 10 yrs this game will still be puttering aling and ill jave 300mill sp to pub stump with and all the stuff will be fixed.with the game...i doubt it. The new player dust experience is complete garbage. Let me do some more explaining.... The vets who say toughen up werent exposed to the same environment as new players now. How can i use tactics when ur scan abilities keep u off my radar but show me without fail on urs. Ive learned thru the forum that scan skills and explosice skills is how a new player can possibly contribute. But a new player isnt going to know that. He will put his sp into pistols, shotguns, armor. None of which matter because hes still 50% weaker dps, 300% less ehp and opponent knows his every move while being himself invisible. How can u compete with a player that has a 1.5 dps x 3 ehp = 4.5 killing advantage and has scan perfect knowledge of ur movement so no sneaking/flanking. U cant learn the game when ur being destroyed constantly staring at deployment screen then running across the map only to die instantly as soon as u get into battle Im willing to spend hours reading the forum and afk farming sp but thats crazy and not normal for a game as unrewarding as this when there are beautiful awesome fps games like bf4 to play. Dust graphics suck. The terrain is boring and glitched. U cant enjoy it as an fps competition game because ur completely outclassed. I dont even want to spend my sp. When i first started reading the forums all i read was shield caldari is the best I studied the stats and saw that armor logi was way better. Now ive been reading how everyone wants it nerfed. Make them sidearm only or whatnot. For a game that is so slow to skill up and permanent when u do. To have the skills u spend become useless or change.completely from how they first worked is not appealing at all When i get proto thats all im gonna use. Why play a level up game like this if not to use the better gear? But u cant have pub stomping. In mmos lvl20 warrior isnt going to pvp a lvl90 unless he goes to the wrong area by mistake or he wants too. Samething with eve. I can pve, im safe in high sec or deep in corp territory. When im ready i can pvp but i can basically choose my targets. And in general big ships arent much better than small because the big ships cant hit the small. Most battles between big corps happen with mid to small sized ships based.on ability and cost In dust i have no control. My militia gear will be shoved into a small room with proto players. Ill be blindfolded, given a stick wearing pajamas against their crowbars and riot gear. There is no pve to enjoy. Theres no newb areas(academy lasted like 2 battles). Its me and other randoms vs proto squad. And the promise that in 6 mos ill almost have that gear and can finally play the game. There should be militia/basic gear only matches. U can use proto in all the other game modes. If there arent enough new players to make this happen then the games already dead because no new person in their right mind would play this game. Its just u vets dwindling away and creating new accounts. When im ready and want a taste of the big leagues i can jump into other game modes and be in awe of the awesome power on display. Just like titans are awe insipring in eve. Then i can go back to basic only matches and continue grinding towards my goal. If there are vets in there with better passives thats fine i can deal with that. On the flip side w hen ur playing battles against other protos only and u no longer have militia scrubs to feed on u may realize that proto isnt the sweet spot for gear based on cost/power. Just like eve wars are fought with med/small ships and only occasionally scaling to titans supers. When everyones running proto then average k/d in a proto will be a solid 1 kd. How do u like idea of going 10 kills 10 deaths in a proto suite? How would that change ur design choices when u know u will actually doe in ur 230k isk suite. New tactics will arise and the scanners will finally get nerfed. Dust, what a stupid failure sigh
Dbukalski Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2013.12.03 23:47:00 - [86] - Quote Or maybe the player base is still big enough but ccp is listening to stupid cpms who think u can grow...or even save whats left by telling newbs to toughen up. Stick with it for a few months and we promise it will stop sucking. Because right now it sucks to be.new
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 920	Posted - 2013.12.03 23:53:00 - [87] - Quote Cosgar wrote: People lack foresight on bigger issues like matchmaking and new player experience. Plain and simple. People? You mean CCP/Shanghai correct? Because this is no matchmaking in DUST. The Newb Academy is the only thing that has happened thus far. Never has been. Never will be. With the possible exception if CCP puts someone in charge that understands balanced play. Considering the HTFU attitude of CCP/Mothership that would seem ... laughable.
Malek McRoland DUST University Ivy League 90	Posted - 2013.12.03 23:57:00 - [88] - Quote Luna Angelo wrote: Michael Cratar wrote: Luna Angelo wrote: Michael Cratar wrote: The whole point of the game atm is to improve your merc. Right? So why is it frowned apon to use prototype equipment when the whole point of the game atm is to get said equipment. If you are tired of getting owned by someone. Why not, oh I dont know, get better at the game? I have proto gear. It wont stop you from getting owned. Id much rather be "PWOTOW STAWMPED" then be in a match with people who barely know how to walk forward without getting stuck on a wall let alone know how to shoot a gun. This is AS BAD a cod. Seriously. Rant over And how are you supposed to improve your skills when you get killed every 5 seconds. You try something for me. Create an alt, go into Academy, beat them to a bloody pulp, then join a regular Pub match. I tried it. It's vicious. Trust me. I did. I still do. And its fun a f*k. I could be on my alt right now and you would never know. Spooky. Well, I still don't see how stomping newbies is good for the game. Keep thatFRELLING stuff in PC/FW. Awesome Farscape reference btw Demolitions Instructor* Event and Calendar Manager-Department of Education (D-UNI)
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 920	Posted - 2013.12.04 00:11:00 - [89] - Quote Dbukalski wrote: im an eve 4 years player so i understand sandbox, ruthless unfair eve -- snip possibly the best treatise thus far on how messed up this game is, except for of mine -- On the flip side when ur playing battles against other protos only and u no longer have militia scrubs to feed on u may realize that proto isnt the sweet spot for gear based on cost/power. Just like eve wars are fought with med/small ships and only occasionally scaling to titans supers. When everyones running proto then average k/d in a proto will be a solid 1 kd. How do u like idea of going 10 kills 10 deaths in a proto suite? How would that change ur design choices when u know u will actually die in ur 230k isk suit. New tactics will arise and the scanners will finally get nerfed. -- snip common attitude -- When I forge gun as a Heavy my go to weapon is the Ishukoni Assault. It is a great weapon. I use it everywhere I can. It makes forge gunning fun. When it isn't enough I run the Gaston FG. That is a GREAT weapon, six rounds in the clip and 21 total. With Ammo additions I will have four full clips and many things will fall before it. So far I have lost ... one. Which means I still have ~50. Lost count. Running tanks means you will lose a tank. The math is just like Proto gear only writ large. Lose one tank and you have to not lose a tank for COST/average ISK per battle. For my favorite tank that is 4 matches. Considering that I can go six or more on most days tanks will make me money. With Forge Gunning the cost ratio is reversed Cost of Gear/ISK. The best advice is to learn how to make ISK. If I make money for six matches in a row and then lose four 100K suits in a match, I am still ahead for the day. Running a Proto weapon, although not suits most often. So yes the entire purpose, as I see it, is to run good gear. Gear that works, is fun to use and gets results. What DUST doesn't have is even the pretense of matchmaking. Or the promised PvE to allow grinding. Fun grinding, that is. Even the system we had during Game Show Events was better than this. At least you knew there were 32 queues and you could try to get into a half full one or enter an empty one and hope it fills up. Silly software, ruby is for kids.
Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 120	Posted - 2013.12.04 15:43:00 - [90] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Personally I just want a 100% solo option that does not allow people to form squads in the match. Free for all or teams, I don't care, just let me work solo against everyone else working solo and no gear advantage will make up for that. Tricky business this be, I just usually run militia or advanced gear because I'm poor, I like the challenge, and stomping in proto gear is just boring as ****. Ok, so you will still get stomped... Why? Because everyone in a corp will be on corp voice and q-sync for those matches. Not all will make it into the same match, but a lot will and then they will just group up together again. Trying to discourage teamwork in a multi-player game is couter-productive. Instead come up with ways to use team work to your advantage and as a mechanism to help balance the equations. Instead of having matches where you ban squads, instead have matches that require them for example. This will make newbs understand that they need to work together to get anywhere.

Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 120	Posted - 2013.12.04 15:46:00 - [91] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: No MMO player would expect someone wearing noob gear to be dropped into a level 90 zone.... LOL... You weren't around for Everquest when it was first released were you... ;)
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8302	Posted - 2013.12.04 15:47:00 - [92] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Personally I just want a 100% solo option that does not allow people to form squads in the match. Free for all or teams, I don't care, just let me work solo against everyone else working solo and no gear advantage will make up for that. Tricky business this be, I just usually run militia or advanced gear because I'm poor, I like the challenge, and stomping in proto gear is just boring as ****. Ok, so you will still get stomped... Why? Because everyone in a corp will be on corp voice and q-sync for those matches. Not all will make it into the same match, but a lot will and then they will just group up together again. Trying to discourage teamwork in a multi-player game is couter-productive. Instead come up with ways to use team work to your advantage and as a mechanism to help balance the equations. Instead of having matches where you ban squads, instead have matches that require them for example. This will make newbs understand that they need to work together to get anywhere. But you don't have to work together to get anywhere, that's the point. I have what I have from about 90% solo play, and I'm much further ahead than most players. A solo game type wouldn't be introduced till later, and by then I would imagine we would have team deploy for team games, and a system to help randomize how you enter a solo game, thus preventing queue syncing. I don't know why you're so adamant about denying others a game type they might enjoy, when it does literally nothing to harm your own enjoyment. Win ISK / Vids / O7
Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 121	Posted - 2013.12.04 15:57:00 - [93] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: But you don't have to work together to get anywhere, that's the point. I have what I have from about 90% solo play, and I'm much further ahead than most players. A solo game type wouldn't be introduced till later, and by then I would imagine we would have team deploy for team games, and a system to help randomize how you enter a solo game, thus preventing queue syncing. I don't know why you're so adamant about denying others a game type they might enjoy, when it does literally nothing to harm your own enjoyment. i never said that you couldn't join matches solo. I'm only saying that everyone on here that is QQ'ing about being beat all the damn time are trying to fix the symptoms of the problem when they just need to recognize that when they play solo it won't be easy is all. Instead of understanding the difficulties of their CHOICE of play-style, they want to impose their artificially derived play-style onto others. I won''t force you to play in a squad if you don't want to, but don't force me to play solo in an MMO also.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8306	Posted - 2013.12.04 17:35:00 - [94] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: But you don't have to work together to get anywhere, that's the point. I have what I have from about 90% solo play, and I'm much further ahead than most players. A solo game type wouldn't be introduced till later, and by then I would imagine we would have team deploy for team games, and a system to help randomize how you enter a solo game, thus preventing queue syncing. I don't know why you're so adamant about denying others a game type they might enjoy, when it does literally nothing to harm your own enjoyment. i never said that you couldn't join matches solo. I'm only saying that everyone on here that is QQ'ing about being beat all the damn time are trying to fix the symptoms of the problem when they just need to recognize that when they play solo it won't be easy is all. Instead of understanding the difficulties of their CHOICE of play-style, they want to impose their artificially derived play-style onto others. I won''t force you to play in a squad if you don't want to, but don't force me to play solo in an MMO also. How would adding in a solo game type force you to play that game type? Win ISK / Vids / O7
Dbukalski Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 7	Posted - 2013.12.05 04:18:00 - [95] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: No MMO player would expect someone wearing noob gear to be dropped into a level 90 zone.... LOL... You weren't around for Everquest when it was first released were you... ;) I played EQ for 3 years when it first came out. Why do you say people expect lvl20s to be up against lvl 90 players?
CRYPT3C W0LF Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 82	Posted - 2013.12.05 04:22:00 - [96] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: WELL, some people believe that because there is no matchmaking in pub games, that people shouldnt be allowed to use proto. While I understand this mentality it wont stop me from using my proto gear because if i have it, I will use it. Not you too "All Your base Are belong to us"-Dedicated scout Youtube Channel


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