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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
8231
   |
Posted - 2013.12.03 15:38:00 -
[61] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:Karl Marx II wrote:
The players are asking .. and wait for this .. it will blow your mind ... PVE/High sec/low sec where certain levels of gear are restricted OR do SP restricted matches that slightly seperates the players into different bands maybe 500k - 5m sp and 5m sp + get put against each other rather than sticking guys just out of the academy v guys with 30m SP
Anyone remotely new asking for that will deeply regret it if it gets put in. Vets would love it because all their passive skills will make it super easy to stomp on people who can't figure out how your AR does 15% more damage. Gear restrictions favour those with more passive skills. Those people are not the new players.
I personally feel SP based matchmaking with gear based rewards would be the most straight forward solution to this problem. PvE will also help tremendously, but that's still a ways out at best.
ISK / Vids / Stream
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taxi bastard
Minor Trueblood
32
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Posted - 2013.12.03 15:45:00 -
[62] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:taxi bastard wrote:we need gear based battles, then you can proto vs proto and have your fun.
as it stands its shite times for new players. I made an alt, 1 game in academy then into the proto stomp, not fun.
personally I see your attitude as part of the problem, yes it is your right to play that way but its a big problem for new and casual players alike. if you do want to do good then tell CCP that this is perhaps the biggest issue which needs to be tackled next or player retention will suffer.
I have seen some good games die because the developers listen to the vocal few who are not in touch with the majority. I think gear based battles are a horrible idea because they'd be a nightmare to implement, and you'd need all sorts of fits just for different security space. I think gear based rewards are MUCH better, so the militia noob who just killed a proto gets a TON of ISK and WP for that kill, where as the proto who just stomped that noob gets next to nothing for his efforts.
to be honest, even if you get rich being a militia newb and getting 1 or 2 kills a battle its not going to be fun.
you play a game not because your paid - but to relax and enjoy yourself. being farmed in gear far better than you have month after month is not fun so you will quit with a lot of isk to give away.
beyond that atm you have those who can afford to proto 100% of the time because of PC and those who can't because they are not in PC. ATM I kill proto knowing that for 90% the loss probably means nothing to the person who lost it.
I see nothing wrong with being good, proving that your good on a level playing field ( such as what happens in PC) seems to be a luxury for the few. stomping the many by having better stuff/more SPs is a luxury enjoyed by the older players who think they are good.
personally I think many of the old guard are against gear based battles because they fear looking very average when they are in competitive battles. fighting to keep the status quo will allow many of these players to keep telling themselves that they are l33t. |
trraacx
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
32
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Posted - 2013.12.03 15:50:00 -
[63] - Quote
Luna Angelo, you weren't the one showing disrespect.
Luna Angelo wrote:jenza aranda wrote:Luna Angelo wrote:jenza aranda wrote:Luna Angelo wrote:
....Ugh. My point is, it's bad for the game. And Jenza, as a CPM, you should be setting an example, not destroying the fun. IT'S A GAME!!!! WE HAVE PC AND FW FOR LO-SEC!!!! Pubs are HI-SEC.
so according to you i should compromise more fun than I already am by not using the gear i invested SP in so not to ruin other people's fun... No, according to me, you need to be a LEADER. You are a childish, KDR chaser, how you became CPM, I'll never know. BTW, use your gear, keep it out of Hi-Sec, that's all. childish? KDR chaser? why not actually talk to me before making silly assumptions about me. I will play this game how is fun to me an I'm sorry but you have no right to dictate how i play this game. Frankly i dont see using proto in public games as a way of crapping on newbies but rather anticipating the other side bringing in their proto gear and responding in kind. But more than anything, this is a game and i dont get paid to be on the CPM so I will play this game in a way that is fun to me and you really dont have any right to demand i do anything less. Do I think matchmaking is a problem? OF COURSE I DO! Its one of the main thing i have been working for with CCP along side the new player experience. Just dont demand that I fit your mold of morality just because I have a tag next to my name. You want to know why I got CPM? Because I care about this game a lot more than clearly you think I do, I have been playing this game since beta day 1 and I have done so much work for the community, sacrificing my own time, money and in one or two situations, my own health to make this game the best I could. So excuse me when i decide if i want to play this game how i see fit. If you would look up my other posts, I clearly state elsewhere that I don't care if you use proto gear, keep it fout o hi-sec. FW and PC is MADE for proto. I'm sorry I showed disrespect, i just don't respect your decision when you see a problem to add to it, when you should be leading the people. You are our representative, after all.
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
8233
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Posted - 2013.12.03 15:52:00 -
[64] - Quote
Personally I just want a 100% solo option that does not allow people to form squads in the match. Free for all or teams, I don't care, just let me work solo against everyone else working solo and no gear advantage will make up for that.
Tricky business this be, I just usually run militia or advanced gear because I'm poor, I like the challenge, and stomping in proto gear is just boring as ****.
ISK / Vids / Stream
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taxi bastard
Minor Trueblood
32
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Posted - 2013.12.03 15:53:00 -
[65] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:Karl Marx II wrote:
The players are asking .. and wait for this .. it will blow your mind ... PVE/High sec/low sec where certain levels of gear are restricted OR do SP restricted matches that slightly seperates the players into different bands maybe 500k - 5m sp and 5m sp + get put against each other rather than sticking guys just out of the academy v guys with 30m SP
Anyone remotely new asking for that will deeply regret it if it gets put in. Vets would love it because all their passive skills will make it super easy to stomp on people who can't figure out how your AR does 15% more damage. Gear restrictions favour those with more passive skills. Those people are not the new players.
passive differences close the gap a huge amount vs passive and gear differences. one is 15-25% the other 50-150% depending on what it is. |
steadyhand amarr
steadyhands independent mercenarys
1998
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 16:10:00 -
[66] - Quote
taxi bastard wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:taxi bastard wrote:we need gear based battles, then you can proto vs proto and have your fun.
as it stands its shite times for new players. I made an alt, 1 game in academy then into the proto stomp, not fun.
personally I see your attitude as part of the problem, yes it is your right to play that way but its a big problem for new and casual players alike. if you do want to do good then tell CCP that this is perhaps the biggest issue which needs to be tackled next or player retention will suffer.
I have seen some good games die because the developers listen to the vocal few who are not in touch with the majority. I think gear based battles are a horrible idea because they'd be a nightmare to implement, and you'd need all sorts of fits just for different security space. I think gear based rewards are MUCH better, so the militia noob who just killed a proto gets a TON of ISK and WP for that kill, where as the proto who just stomped that noob gets next to nothing for his efforts. to be honest, even if you get rich being a militia newb and getting 1 or 2 kills a battle its not going to be fun. you play a game not because your paid - but to relax and enjoy yourself. being farmed in gear far better than you have month after month is not fun so you will quit with a lot of isk to give away. beyond that atm you have those who can afford to proto 100% of the time because of PC and those who can't because they are not in PC. ATM I kill proto knowing that for 90% the loss probably means nothing to the person who lost it. I see nothing wrong with being good, proving that your good on a level playing field ( such as what happens in PC) seems to be a luxury for the few. stomping the many by having better stuff/more SPs is a luxury enjoyed by the older players who think they are good. personally I think many of the old guard are against gear based battles because they fear looking very average when they are in competitive battles. fighting to keep the status quo will allow many of these players to keep telling themselves that they are l33t.
Most the old guard have been screaming for matchmaking thanks we find boring matches boring to. That said dust is a team based shooter want to start playing better get a squad. Ccp needs to educate that point to new players tbh
"i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
96
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 16:13:00 -
[67] - Quote
taxi bastard wrote:we need gear based battles, then you can proto vs proto and have your fun.
as it stands its shite times for new players. I made an alt, 1 game in academy then into the proto stomp, not fun.
personally I see your attitude as part of the problem, yes it is your right to play that way but its a big problem for new and casual players alike. if you do want to do good then tell CCP that this is perhaps the biggest issue which needs to be tackled next or player retention will suffer.
I have seen some good games die because the developers listen to the vocal few who are not in touch with the majority.
First I agree that the new academy experience needs to be revamped so that the "casual player" get the ******* clue early on that this ain't no ******* casual game!
Second, adding in "gear based" matches will KILL THIS GAME! Why? Because it would further divide the limited pool of players even more. It wouldn't fix the problem but make it WORSE. Proto matches would never happen because not enough people and only when arranged for fun by the "lete" alliances. People would play advanced matches and complain about being owned all the time by the "lete" players who should have stayed at the Proto level, but didn't. And finally all your precious newbs would still get WTF OWNED by EVERYONE as EVERYONE would be using you basic/newb level matches to farm for ISK.
Yeah I agree this is an issue, but it isn't one for CCP, it is one for players that still haven't figured out how this game actually works yet.
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
97
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 16:20:00 -
[68] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Personally I just want a 100% solo option that does not allow people to form squads in the match. Free for all or teams, I don't care, just let me work solo against everyone else working solo and no gear advantage will make up for that.
Tricky business this be, I just usually run militia or advanced gear because I'm poor, I like the challenge, and stomping in proto gear is just boring as ****.
This is a dumb idea. First, you are trying to say that solo play is somehow a superior tactic to teamwork and thus should be rewarded by the game? This is an MMO which inherently means that you went online SPECIFICALLY TO PLAY WITH OTHERS! If you want solo, don't go online. Second, you are taking option and choice of play-style away from players by doing this. Why play in a game where you can choose how to fit your suit etc. when you just force people to your conformity anyways? Why not play COD where the "kit" is already defined for your "role" and be happy there? Here there are no real "roles" there are no forced kits. You play how you like it. If you want to not join a squad and play solo, then go for it. Just understand that your opponent doesn't have to like that and will do whatever they want to.
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Michael Cratar
Fenrir's Wolves
Zero-Day
276
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 16:58:00 -
[69] - Quote
knight of 6 wrote:Michael Cratar wrote:knight of 6 wrote:this just in the point of eve online is to get a titan! I think this belongs in the eve forums. Just saying.  I'm not sure you got the joke... saying the point of dust is to get proto is like saying the point of eve it to get a titan. neither game has a point an I am deriving humor from drawing that comparison. the point of dust and eve is unique to the player, some want a vast interstellar empire, others will settle for a nice tank and some close friends, neither game has an "end game" except the one the player designs for themself. you see?
I did. That's why I liked your status. 
The question is not if I can or can not, but who is going to stop me?
Closed Beta Vet
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
372
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 17:12:00 -
[70] - Quote
Luna Angelo wrote:Michael Cratar wrote:The whole point of the game *atm* is to improve your merc. Right?
So why is it frowned apon to use prototype equipment when the whole point of the game *atm* is to get said equipment.
If you are tired of getting owned by someone. Why not, oh I dont know, get better at the game?
I have proto gear. It wont stop you from getting owned.
Id much rather be "PWOTOW STAWMPED" then be in a match with people who barely know how to walk forward without getting stuck on a wall let alone know how to shoot a gun.
This is AS BAD a cod.
Seriously.
*Rant over* And how are you supposed to improve your skills when you get killed every 5 seconds. You try something for me. Create an alt, go into Academy, beat them to a bloody pulp, then join a regular Pub match. I tried it. It's vicious. Trust me.
This is the main problem, people have played MMO's for a good chunk of their gammng history, and understand when you play one you can't come in as a level 20 and murder a level 90.
The FPS players who have played that genre more exclusively don't comprehend that concept well. They think when you join a game with two people and gun's their should be some "even" playing field between the two. That's where alot of the problem stem's with attitude...
No MMO player would expect someone to wear noob gear on a level 90 so the level 20 could have a chance... it would be laughable.
When I started this game i knew this as fact, There will be people with much better skill's and suit's then I and i will have to play differently to compete with them. If you highly specialize into something you max out somewhat quickly and can catch up or gain competitive footing fairly quick.
But the assumption that you should directly compete with Prototype 20m SP players when your right out of Training grounds.. is.. deflating peoples spirit at the general ability to grasp a true MMOFPS concept. |
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
8241
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 17:14:00 -
[71] - Quote
Jadd Hatchen wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Personally I just want a 100% solo option that does not allow people to form squads in the match. Free for all or teams, I don't care, just let me work solo against everyone else working solo and no gear advantage will make up for that.
Tricky business this be, I just usually run militia or advanced gear because I'm poor, I like the challenge, and stomping in proto gear is just boring as ****. This is a dumb idea. First, you are trying to say that solo play is somehow a superior tactic to teamwork and thus should be rewarded by the game? This is an MMO which inherently means that you went online SPECIFICALLY TO PLAY WITH OTHERS! If you want solo, don't go online. Second, you are taking option and choice of play-style away from players by doing this. Why play in a game where you can choose how to fit your suit etc. when you just force people to your conformity anyways? Why not play COD where the "kit" is already defined for your "role" and be happy there? Here there are no real "roles" there are no forced kits. You play how you like it. If you want to not join a squad and play solo, then go for it. Just understand that your opponent doesn't have to like that and will do whatever they want to.
Why would you queue up for a solo match if you're afraid of playing solo? No one took away your Ambush, Skirmish, Domination, FW and PC
I also said absolutely nothing about gear restriction, I'm not sure where you pulled that from.
ISK / Vids / Stream
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Michael Cratar
Fenrir's Wolves
Zero-Day
277
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 17:19:00 -
[72] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Luna Angelo wrote:Michael Cratar wrote:The whole point of the game *atm* is to improve your merc. Right?
So why is it frowned apon to use prototype equipment when the whole point of the game *atm* is to get said equipment.
If you are tired of getting owned by someone. Why not, oh I dont know, get better at the game?
I have proto gear. It wont stop you from getting owned.
Id much rather be "PWOTOW STAWMPED" then be in a match with people who barely know how to walk forward without getting stuck on a wall let alone know how to shoot a gun.
This is AS BAD a cod.
Seriously.
*Rant over* And how are you supposed to improve your skills when you get killed every 5 seconds. You try something for me. Create an alt, go into Academy, beat them to a bloody pulp, then join a regular Pub match. I tried it. It's vicious. Trust me. This is the main problem, people have played MMO's for a good chunk of their gammng history, and understand when you play one you can't come in as a level 20 and murder a level 90. The FPS players who have played that genre more exclusively don't comprehend that concept well. They think when you join a game with two people and gun's their should be some "even" playing field between the two. That's where alot of the problem stem's with attitude... No MMO player would expect someone to wear noob gear on a level 90 so the level 20 could have a chance... it would be laughable. When I started this game i knew this as fact, There will be people with much better skill's and suit's then I and i will have to play differently to compete with them. If you highly specialize into something you max out somewhat quickly and can catch up or gain competitive footing fairly quick. But the assumption that you should directly compete with Prototype 20m SP players when your right out of Training grounds.. is.. deflating peoples spirit at the general ability to grasp a true MMOFPS concept.
Thank you. This sums up how I feel about this pretty well.
The question is not if I can or can not, but who is going to stop me?
Closed Beta Vet
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taxi bastard
Minor Trueblood
32
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 17:19:00 -
[73] - Quote
Jadd Hatchen wrote:taxi bastard wrote:we need gear based battles, then you can proto vs proto and have your fun.
as it stands its shite times for new players. I made an alt, 1 game in academy then into the proto stomp, not fun.
personally I see your attitude as part of the problem, yes it is your right to play that way but its a big problem for new and casual players alike. if you do want to do good then tell CCP that this is perhaps the biggest issue which needs to be tackled next or player retention will suffer.
I have seen some good games die because the developers listen to the vocal few who are not in touch with the majority. First I agree that the new academy experience needs to be revamped so that the "casual player" get the ******* clue early on that this ain't no ******* casual game! Second, adding in "gear based" matches will KILL THIS GAME! Why? Because it would further divide the limited pool of players even more. It wouldn't fix the problem but make it WORSE. Proto matches would never happen because not enough people and only when arranged for fun by the "lete" alliances. People would play advanced matches and complain about being owned all the time by the "lete" players who should have stayed at the Proto level, but didn't. And finally all your precious newbs would still get WTF OWNED by EVERYONE as EVERYONE would be using you basic/newb level matches to farm for ISK. Yeah I agree this is an issue, but it isn't one for CCP, it is one for players that still haven't figured out how this game actually works yet.
the pool of players will only get smaller with the current system.
if people are shite, they are shite nothing can be done about that, but at least its a bit more balanced and would help grow the game.
if the game grows then there will be more people for every level. you talk about limited player base being an issue, this is because many leave dust not long after academy because of feeling of uselessness because of the current huge imbalance between players in battles.
your views on everyone farming basic matches as a worst case scenario ........ is a lot better than the current system where newbs are farmed without mercy by proto gear. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
8244
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 17:20:00 -
[74] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:
This is the main problem, people have played MMO's for a good chunk of their gammng history, and understand when you play one you can't come in as a level 20 and murder a level 90.
The FPS players who have played that genre more exclusively don't comprehend that concept well. They think when you join a game with two people and gun's their should be some "even" playing field between the two. That's where alot of the problem stem's with attitude...
No MMO player would expect someone to wear noob gear on a level 90 so the level 20 could have a chance... it would be laughable.
When I started this game i knew this as fact, There will be people with much better skill's and suit's then I and i will have to play differently to compete with them. If you highly specialize into something you max out somewhat quickly and can catch up or gain competitive footing fairly quick.
But the assumption that you should directly compete with Prototype 20m SP players when your right out of Training grounds.. is.. deflating peoples spirit at the general ability to grasp a true MMOFPS concept.
No MMO player would expect someone wearing noob gear to be dropped into a level 90 zone....
ISK / Vids / Stream
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Michael Cratar
Fenrir's Wolves
Zero-Day
277
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 17:28:00 -
[75] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:
No MMO player would expect someone wearing noob gear to be dropped into a level 90 zone....
I would love a game that dose that so much.
I feel that games hold your hand too much nowdays.
The question is not if I can or can not, but who is going to stop me?
Closed Beta Vet
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
372
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 17:34:00 -
[76] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Bethhy wrote:
This is the main problem, people have played MMO's for a good chunk of their gammng history, and understand when you play one you can't come in as a level 20 and murder a level 90.
The FPS players who have played that genre more exclusively don't comprehend that concept well. They think when you join a game with two people and gun's their should be some "even" playing field between the two. That's where alot of the problem stem's with attitude...
No MMO player would expect someone to wear noob gear on a level 90 so the level 20 could have a chance... it would be laughable.
When I started this game i knew this as fact, There will be people with much better skill's and suit's then I and i will have to play differently to compete with them. If you highly specialize into something you max out somewhat quickly and can catch up or gain competitive footing fairly quick.
But the assumption that you should directly compete with Prototype 20m SP players when your right out of Training grounds.. is.. deflating peoples spirit at the general ability to grasp a true MMOFPS concept.
No MMO player would expect someone wearing noob gear to be dropped into a level 90 zone....
Yes matchmaking is interesting as you could see in my edit of that post.
At the same time it has happened all the time in MMO's just has been made so the level 90 feel's grimey being in the kiddie pool and picking on the kid's.
But completely agree. For whatever benefit's might be present in a new player being pitted against say (generously to CCP matchmaking system) 8 Vet's on each side...
The new players may see what the end game of DUST looks like more, but for the disadvantages in game-play for the new player AND the veteran's it makes the experience for both parties very poor. And for what?
If you have a prospect new player you have recruited into your Corporation and are bringing them into those games in your veteran squad and essentially "carrying" them then those new players will get a huge advantage... Otherwise it's.. a joke.
And the bore of shooting people that are still lost on the map in the face 6 times in a match.. as a Vet.. makes the experience equally as poor..
There is no situation where throwing a bunch of vet's and new players together randomly in a MMOFPS.. is beneficial to both parties. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
8246
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 17:36:00 -
[77] - Quote
Michael Cratar wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:
No MMO player would expect someone wearing noob gear to be dropped into a level 90 zone....
I would love a game that dose that so much. I feel that games hold your hand too much nowdays.
So you would love joining an MMO and never being able to progress because the enemies are statistically superior to you in such a way that you couldn't compete regardless of skill?
I think we have differing opinions on what makes a good MMO....
ISK / Vids / Stream
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Meeko Fent
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
1701
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 17:39:00 -
[78] - Quote
Proof why this game will eventualy die.
Listen, come close...
NOBODY ******* WANTS TO FIGHT PROTO WITH MILITIA GEAR.
Its COMPLETELY onesided, and kills any chance of ANYBODY new coming in.
Gawd.
*Grabs keyboard*
Now is the time to sign the forum resignation I suppose.
Refunding a few AUR militia Blueprints pertaining to vehicles because their respective modules will not exist anymore
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Ivy Zalinto
Bobbit's Hangmen
70
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 17:44:00 -
[79] - Quote
Michael Cratar wrote:The whole point of the game *atm* is to improve your merc. Right?
So why is it frowned apon to use prototype equipment when the whole point of the game *atm* is to get said equipment.
If you are tired of getting owned by someone. Why not, oh I dont know, get better at the game?
I have proto gear. It wont stop you from getting owned.
Id much rather be "PWOTOW STAWMPED" then be in a match with people who barely know how to walk forward without getting stuck on a wall let alone know how to shoot a gun.
This is AS BAD a cod.
Seriously.
*Rant over*
EDIT: Read Gorra Snell's post. He/she makes a very good point!
Proto stomping is more of an issue than people think. Its not that bad from their end, or even the receiving end if you have similarly built suits, but for new players that have 3 armor upgrade and 3 shield upgrade and thats it, its kinda terrible. Im a seasoned player and the time to kill for my suit is less than half a second of solid hits. Granted I play scout, but my scout suit has more ehp and survability than other suits do; especially starting fits. The issue isnt proto's at all in regular matches, its that newer players get no good experiences in the majority of the matches they join. I do my best to recruit people into the game and teach them, but some of them have such a bad time due to matchmaking luck of the draw and their newness to the game that they dont come back to the game at all. Itd be fine if it was one in ten matches, but just last night I played at least 10 matches and 6 of them were proto stomps.
Dedicated scout.
Caldari loyalist.
Pistol supremacy.
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Michael Cratar
Fenrir's Wolves
Zero-Day
278
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 17:50:00 -
[80] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Michael Cratar wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:
No MMO player would expect someone wearing noob gear to be dropped into a level 90 zone....
I would love a game that dose that so much. I feel that games hold your hand too much nowdays. So you would love joining an MMO and never being able to progress because the enemies are statistically superior to you in such a way that you couldn't compete regardless of skill? I think we have differing opinions on what makes a good MMO....
No one said you had to stay and get owned. Why not just leave to go to a lower level zone?
AKA Picking you fights?
There is an old game called S.T.A.L.K.E.R that dose this perfectly. *especially with the Misery mod*
If anything, CCP should tell newberries what they are getting them selves into. That way they will know the game is supposed to be hard. *propper balancing of weapons could help with this as well.*
The question is not if I can or can not, but who is going to stop me?
Closed Beta Vet
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Michael Cratar
Fenrir's Wolves
Zero-Day
278
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Posted - 2013.12.03 17:54:00 -
[81] - Quote
Ivy Zalinto wrote:
Proto stomping is more of an issue than people think. Its not that bad from their end, or even the receiving end if you have similarly built suits, but for new players that have 3 armor upgrade and 3 shield upgrade and thats it, its kinda terrible. Im a seasoned player and the time to kill for my suit is less than half a second of solid hits. Granted I play scout, but my scout suit has more ehp and survability than other suits do; especially starting fits. The issue isnt proto's at all in regular matches, its that newer players get no good experiences in the majority of the matches they join. I do my best to recruit people into the game and teach them, but some of them have such a bad time due to matchmaking luck of the draw and their newness to the game that they dont come back to the game at all. Itd be fine if it was one in ten matches, but just last night I played at least 10 matches and 6 of them were proto stomps.
Wow, a counter argument that proves a good point.
Honestly, I agree.
Proper balancing of weapons, frames, and mods will help with this.
The question is not if I can or can not, but who is going to stop me?
Closed Beta Vet
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Tek Hound
Death In Xcess Corporation
152
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 17:56:00 -
[82] - Quote
I have no problem with people using proto.I find It very dumb to look down on a proto user.what are you spending sp on if not to get upgrade?Last time I checked proto was the top and reason to skill up.Now what I do have a problem with is noibs being feed to the sharks . It's not the players fault for using proto(you put the sp in use it)but the game design that throws noobberries at their feet. |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
373
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 17:58:00 -
[83] - Quote
Michael Cratar wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Michael Cratar wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:
No MMO player would expect someone wearing noob gear to be dropped into a level 90 zone....
I would love a game that dose that so much. I feel that games hold your hand too much nowdays. So you would love joining an MMO and never being able to progress because the enemies are statistically superior to you in such a way that you couldn't compete regardless of skill? I think we have differing opinions on what makes a good MMO.... No one said you had to stay and get owned. Why not just leave to go to a lower level zone? AKA Picking you fights? There is an old game called S.T.A.L.K.E.R that dose this perfectly. *especially with the Misery mod* If anything, CCP should tell newberries what they are getting them selves into. That way they will know the game is supposed to be hard. *propper balancing of weapons could help with this as well.*
It's been said more times then i can count build a sandbox matchmaking system.
Public Match Risk Versus Reward System
High Security Space - Limited to Militia Gear, AA full strength, Limited Skill Point/ISK rewards.
Low Security Space - Limited to Advanced Gear, AA strength significantly reduced, Increased Skill Point/ISK rewards.
Null Security Space - No Gear Limitations, No AA, Maxed out Skill Point and ISK rewards. |
Tch Tch
Red Shirts Away Team
27
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 21:20:00 -
[84] - Quote
mini rehak wrote:Tch Tch wrote:Michael Cratar wrote:mini rehak wrote:This is New Eden, it's not fair. I spent my SP to get proto gear and you bet your ass i'm going to use it use. Running a proto fit does NOT make people god it just means you can't fight stupid when you see them. Yeah a guy running a proto suit MIGHT seem OP if you run at them going full ******. Think a bit before you shoot people.
HTFU! ^^^ Knows what he is talking about. Really? What is the counter to scan spam? Consider the amount of points it costs compared to how many a new player has. How can you not come straight at an opponent if you are lit up like a Xmas tree? New players do not have level 5 scout and a complex dampener but they are facing ADV and better scanners in a majority of pub matches. So how can a noob do anything if all flanking does mean that you are by yourself. Scanners with no draw back mean that the noobs cannot counter better equipment with good tactics. Scanners mean that it reduces it to who can put the most gear and peeps at the point of conflict. No chance for a noob to get the jump on a better equipped player. Might as well attach bells to our shoes. What does that have to do with Proto suits? Just because you have a scanner does NOT mean you will win every firefight. There are ways to counter a Scan Spam you just have to be smart enough to figure it out. And besides scanners are broken, CCP needs to give them A good tweaking
I out fit MLT/Basic Dampeners on all my main fits. The only other counter to scan spam is to stay out of range which is really difficult if you want to take an objective or in an ambush. You can do this by deep redline sniping but that isn't a preference.
My main which is a noob account too only has 2 million SP in a balanced manner. I have ADV Dampener(s) on a few of those. And even then im fluctuating between scan / not scanned as mulitple scanners cycle through. The life span on my MLT triple ADV scanner is short but does surprise the crap out of some players, when i have the SP for shotgun it will be interesting. But as a new player that is an expensive isk and SP option.
So again its not about proto equipment or squad tactics. It's about players who already have an advantage in SP, equipment, isk etc then going easy mode and using the scanner to remove any tactical component of the game.
Also from an SP perspective why invest in increased precision and/or range. Level five increased range will get you 225 square meters of coverage at your innate scanning level on a medium suit. Compared with 10,000 square meters with a 100m scanner doing ballerina twirls. Whilst passive is always on, actives other pro is it provides better precision than the precision skill. So one skill trumps two specialist skills.
Add to that active isn't lighting up the user. Our suits are all fairly stealthy and submarine tactics go a long way. It is strange to have an active ping that does not identify the end user. Even a redline sniper leaves a trail, why the heck not this electronic fog horn?
Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.
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Dbukalski
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2013.12.03 23:29:00 -
[85] - Quote
im an eve 4 years player so i understand sandbox, ruthless unfair eve
In bf4 i have 2.5 k/d. 88% win, 1300spm for those who play so i understand team/squad tactics. How to integrate vehicles.
I have 4.5mil sp in dust with 60mil in the bank. Week one i played and hated it. Going 2-18, getting 600wp for all my efforts out of 400k u get per week for not playing. If i used anything but free starter fits i basically made no money.
Week two i started sniping with charge sniper rifle and some damage mods. It takes 4 charged shots to kill many of the suits out there. 1 to kill other newbs. Which was the only way for me to get positive kill/death about 12-3 per match. I have to stay far from battle because my suit costs 60k so 2 or 3 deaths is all i can handle to break even. But at least i was finally offering a positive return for my teams clone count. Killing 10 more vs losing 15 more was a 35 clone swing in my performance. Which is probably more useful than failing to take control points.
Week 3 i stopped playing at all. Who wants to get murdered 3-18 for months on end or camp in boring hill getting 600wp extra per battle when u can just AFK in the mcc and farm 400k sp a week and profit 100k isk per battle. So now my team cam shoot at my head while i watch tv when im not playing a better game. One of these days ill have the gear to enjoy the game if i havent fully quit by then. As more ps4 games come out if this game doesnt transition with better graphics and gameplay ill never get past the camping stage. Who knows maybe in 10 yrs this game will still be puttering aling and ill jave 300mill sp to pub stump with and all the stuff will be fixed.with the game...i doubt it.
The new player dust experience is complete garbage. Let me do some more explaining....
The vets who say toughen up werent exposed to the same environment as new players now.
How can i use tactics when ur scan abilities keep u off my radar but show me without fail on urs. Ive learned thru the forum that scan skills and explosice skills is how a new player can possibly contribute. But a new player isnt going to know that. He will put his sp into pistols, shotguns, armor. None of which matter because hes still 50% weaker dps, 300% less ehp and opponent knows his every move while being himself invisible. How can u compete with a player that has a 1.5 dps x 3 ehp = 4.5 killing advantage and has scan perfect knowledge of ur movement so no sneaking/flanking.
U cant learn the game when ur being destroyed constantly staring at deployment screen then running across the map only to die instantly as soon as u get into battle
Im willing to spend hours reading the forum and afk farming sp but thats crazy and not normal for a game as unrewarding as this when there are beautiful awesome fps games like bf4 to play.
Dust graphics suck. The terrain is boring and glitched. U cant enjoy it as an fps competition game because ur completely outclassed. I dont even want to spend my sp. When i first started reading the forums all i read was shield caldari is the best
I studied the stats and saw that armor logi was way better. Now ive been reading how everyone wants it nerfed. Make them sidearm only or whatnot. For a game that is so slow to skill up and permanent when u do. To have the skills u spend become useless or change.completely from how they first worked is not appealing at all
When i get proto thats all im gonna use. Why play a level up game like this if not to use the better gear? But u cant have pub stomping. In mmos lvl20 warrior isnt going to pvp a lvl90 unless he goes to the wrong area by mistake or he wants too. Samething with eve. I can pve, im safe in high sec or deep in corp territory. When im ready i can pvp but i can basically choose my targets. And in general big ships arent much better than small because the big ships cant hit the small. Most battles between big corps happen with mid to small sized ships based.on ability and cost
In dust i have no control. My militia gear will be shoved into a small room with proto players. Ill be blindfolded, given a stick wearing pajamas against their crowbars and riot gear.
There is no pve to enjoy. Theres no newb areas(academy lasted like 2 battles). Its me and other randoms vs proto squad. And the promise that in 6 mos ill almost have that gear and can finally play the game.
There should be militia/basic gear only matches. U can use proto in all the other game modes. If there arent enough new players to make this happen then the games already dead because no new person in their right mind would play this game. Its just u vets dwindling away and creating new accounts.
When im ready and want a taste of the big leagues i can jump into other game modes and be in awe of the awesome power on display. Just like titans are awe insipring in eve. Then i can go back to basic only matches and continue grinding towards my goal. If there are vets in there with better passives thats fine i can deal with that.
On the flip side w hen ur playing battles against other protos only and u no longer have militia scrubs to feed on u may realize that proto isnt the sweet spot for gear based on cost/power. Just like eve wars are fought with med/small ships and only occasionally scaling to titans supers. When everyones running proto then average k/d in a proto will be a solid 1 kd. How do u like idea of going 10 kills 10 deaths in a proto suite? How would that change ur design choices when u know u will actually doe in ur 230k isk suite. New tactics will arise and the scanners will finally get nerfed.
Dust, what a stupid failure sigh |
Dbukalski
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 23:47:00 -
[86] - Quote
Or maybe the player base is still big enough but ccp is listening to stupid cpms who think u can grow...or even save whats left by telling newbs to toughen up. Stick with it for a few months and we promise it will stop sucking. Because right now it sucks to be.new |
KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
920
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 23:53:00 -
[87] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:People lack foresight on bigger issues like matchmaking and new player experience. Plain and simple. People? You mean CCP/Shanghai correct?
Because this is no matchmaking in DUST. The Newb Academy is the only thing that has happened thus far.
Never has been.
Never will be.
With the possible exception if CCP puts someone in charge that understands balanced play. Considering the HTFU attitude of CCP/Mothership that would seem ... laughable. |
Malek McRoland
DUST University
Ivy League
90
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 23:57:00 -
[88] - Quote
Luna Angelo wrote:Michael Cratar wrote:Luna Angelo wrote:Michael Cratar wrote:The whole point of the game *atm* is to improve your merc. Right?
So why is it frowned apon to use prototype equipment when the whole point of the game *atm* is to get said equipment.
If you are tired of getting owned by someone. Why not, oh I dont know, get better at the game?
I have proto gear. It wont stop you from getting owned.
Id much rather be "PWOTOW STAWMPED" then be in a match with people who barely know how to walk forward without getting stuck on a wall let alone know how to shoot a gun.
This is AS BAD a cod.
Seriously.
*Rant over* And how are you supposed to improve your skills when you get killed every 5 seconds. You try something for me. Create an alt, go into Academy, beat them to a bloody pulp, then join a regular Pub match. I tried it. It's vicious. Trust me. I did. I still do. And its fun a f**k. I could be on my alt right now and you would never know. Spooky. Well, I still don't see how stomping newbies is good for the game. Keep that FRELLING stuff in PC/FW.
Awesome Farscape reference btw
Demolitions Instructor
Event and Calendar Manager-Department of Education (D-UNI)
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KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
920
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 00:11:00 -
[89] - Quote
Dbukalski wrote:im an eve 4 years player so i understand sandbox, ruthless unfair eve -- snip possibly the best treatise thus far on how messed up this game is, except for of mine  -- On the flip side when ur playing battles against other protos only and u no longer have militia scrubs to feed on u may realize that proto isnt the sweet spot for gear based on cost/power. Just like eve wars are fought with med/small ships and only occasionally scaling to titans supers. When everyones running proto then average k/d in a proto will be a solid 1 kd. How do u like idea of going 10 kills 10 deaths in a proto suite? How would that change ur design choices when u know u will actually die in ur 230k isk suit. New tactics will arise and the scanners will finally get nerfed. -- snip common attitude -- When I forge gun as a Heavy my go to weapon is the Ishukoni Assault. It is a great weapon. I use it everywhere I can. It makes forge gunning fun. When it isn't enough I run the Gaston FG. That is a GREAT weapon, six rounds in the clip and 21 total. With Ammo additions I will have four full clips and many things will fall before it. So far I have lost ... one. Which means I still have ~50. Lost count.
Running tanks means you will lose a tank. The math is just like Proto gear only writ large. Lose one tank and you have to not lose a tank for COST/average ISK per battle. For my favorite tank that is 4 matches. Considering that I can go six or more on most days tanks will make me money.
With Forge Gunning the cost ratio is reversed Cost of Gear/ISK. The best advice is to learn how to make ISK. If I make money for six matches in a row and then lose four 100K suits in a match, I am still ahead for the day. Running a Proto weapon, although not suits most often.
So yes the entire purpose, as I see it, is to run good gear. Gear that works, is fun to use and gets results.
What DUST doesn't have is even the pretense of matchmaking. Or the promised PvE to allow grinding. Fun grinding, that is.
Even the system we had during Game Show Events was better than this. At least you knew there were 32 queues and you could try to get into a half full one or enter an empty one and hope it fills up.
Silly software, ruby is for kids. |
Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
120
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 15:43:00 -
[90] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Personally I just want a 100% solo option that does not allow people to form squads in the match. Free for all or teams, I don't care, just let me work solo against everyone else working solo and no gear advantage will make up for that.
Tricky business this be, I just usually run militia or advanced gear because I'm poor, I like the challenge, and stomping in proto gear is just boring as ****.
Ok, so you will still get stomped... Why? Because everyone in a corp will be on corp voice and q-sync for those matches. Not all will make it into the same match, but a lot will and then they will just group up together again. Trying to discourage teamwork in a multi-player game is couter-productive. Instead come up with ways to use team work to your advantage and as a mechanism to help balance the equations. Instead of having matches where you ban squads, instead have matches that require them for example. This will make newbs understand that they need to work together to get anywhere.
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