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A Plea for Mouse/Keyboard Raw Input

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Funkmaster Whale Fatal Absolution 1173	Posted - 2013.11.21 16:34:00 - [1] - Quote The time has come CCP. With every coming patch you've seemingly made mouse controls worse and worse. With the advent of aim assist you simultaneously improved the aim of the DS3 masses (which is fine) and gimped the hell out of mouse controls. Every patch in which mouse controls have been "improved" have only made aiming more and more difficult. In close quarter combat the input-lag of the current "thumbstick emulation" scheme you implemented makes it an absolute nightmare in trying to stay on target. I understand most of you hate us M/KB users with a vengeance because you see us as a plague to the "console games", because somewhere along the way it was decided that thumbsticks are the intended universal input for console games. You've been given aim assist to counter us. DS3 users' aiming went from laughable to impeccable overnight with the advent of AA. We had our moment of glory before in Chromosome when mouse controls were seemingly at their best, and now the mouse controls have gotten so bad that it's impossible to compete in any close-quarter scenario where aim assist is involved. For the sake of us M/KB users, please please give us a reason as to why you can't implement raw input. I'm incredulous as to how with every patch that changed mouse controls my aiming has gotten worse and worse. Have I gotten worse at shooting? Of course I'm but one person and anecdotal evidence is certainly a factor. Alas, there is a positive side to it. The sheer difficulty in trying to stay on target with a mouse in this game has amplified my abilities when I go back to PC games and play with raw input. I guess something to do with playing with constant input delay has honed my abilities as if I were training in a low-oxygen environment that is DUST and going back to breathing regularly when playing other games. For you DS3 users you probably won't understand, but there's no better feeling than going from DUST's crap mouse scheme to raw input and absolutely dominating in any other game (Battlefield 4 and CS:GO in my case). CCP, I emplore you. Please give us raw input. I understand that we won't be able to come to terms on aim assist because you worked so hard to bring it back and AA is just the nature of the beast when it comes to console shooters. At least allow us a balanced way to compete by giving us this one little thing. Let me play you the song of my people!
Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 57	Posted - 2013.11.21 17:06:00 - [2] - Quote Seconded.
Rei Shepard The Rainbow Effect 1062	Posted - 2013.11.21 17:10:00 - [3] - Quote I gave up a long time ago preaching for Raw KBM support.... Idd give my left nut to be able to aim like i ussualy do on PC shooters, but yeah ...its gonna cost a whole lot more then a nut to fix Raw Input... Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!" "Accuracy"
THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD Public Disorder. 326	Posted - 2013.11.21 17:26:00 - [4] - Quote Aiming better doesn't even matter, you guys can already super strafe to the point you're untrackable. No one wants Unreal Tournament 514 ZionTCD Director & Ammar Loyalist Amarr Sentinel \| Amarr Logi \| *Losematar* Scout What is a signature?
Rei Shepard The Rainbow Effect 1063	Posted - 2013.11.21 17:29:00 - [5] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Aiming better doesn't even matter, you guys can already super strafe to the point you're untrackable. No one wants Unreal Tournament 514 Noone is stopping you go out and buy a 300$ Mechanical Keyboard....then find out its not the keyboard... Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!" "Accuracy"
M McManus Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 277	Posted - 2013.11.21 17:31:00 - [6] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Aiming better doesn't even matter, you guys can already super strafe to the point you're untrackable. No one wants Unreal Tournament 514 I can strafe quicker with DS3 all you have to do is wigglee left and right and aim assist does the rest for me... This is coming from someone who has used a kb/m for years. Dust has forced me to use the ds3 because aim assist is easy mode and CCP has royally screwed up mouse aiming. ..
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 3830	Posted - 2013.11.21 17:35:00 - [7] - Quote If there was raw input, there would be no stopping M/K players. I'm saying that as someone who spent the first YEARS of his FPS life playing counter strike. The accuracy I can get with a DS3 + Aim assist is still no way near ot what I can get with a M/K. So no to raw input, unless DS3 had auto aim to the head, because that's basically what I would do to you Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
pseudosnipre DUST University Ivy League 347	Posted - 2013.11.21 17:40:00 - [8] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: If there was raw input, there would be no stopping M/K players. I'm saying that as someone who spent the first YEARS of his FPS life playing counter strike. The accuracy I can get with a DS3 + Aim assist is still no way near ot what I can get with a M/K. So no to raw input, unless DS3 had auto aim to the head, because that's basically what I would do to you Only applicable to elite players. For newbs aa ds3 > raw kbm. Also AK CS headshots don't really translate directly here, especially if ttk buff.
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 658	Posted - 2013.11.21 17:46:00 - [9] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: If there was raw input, there would be no stopping M/K players. I'm saying that as someone who spent the first YEARS of his FPS life playing counter strike. The accuracy I can get with a DS3 + Aim assist is still no way near ot what I can get with a M/K. So no to raw input, unless DS3 had auto aim to the head, because that's basically what I would do to you Catmerc, we bassicly had raw input in chromosome and mouse users didn't excell over ds3, - per the leader boards- how do you explain that ? I get better accuracy with aim assist because my iron site barley moves away from the target even while straffing because of aim assist... Raw input is only fair vs the current aim assist in fact the same can be said for AA.. Since AA has been implemented nothing is stopng DS3 users from walking all over mouse user just a flick of the thumb and its instant headshot. . I'm not saying remove AA leave it the way it is but give mouse users chromosome/raw input back..
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 3831	Posted - 2013.11.21 17:48:00 - [10] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: Cat Merc wrote: If there was raw input, there would be no stopping M/K players. I'm saying that as someone who spent the first YEARS of his FPS life playing counter strike. The accuracy I can get with a DS3 + Aim assist is still no way near ot what I can get with a M/K. So no to raw input, unless DS3 had auto aim to the head, because that's basically what I would do to you Catmerc, we bassicly had raw input in chromosome and mouse users didn't excell over ds3, - per the leader boards- how do you explain that ? I get better accuracy with aim assist because my iron site barley moves away from the target even while straffing because of aim assist... Raw input is only fair vs the current aim assist in fact the same can be said for AA.. Since AA has been implemented nothing is stopng DS3 users from walking all over mouse user just a flick of the thumb and its instant headshot. . I'm not saying remove AA leave it the way it is but give mouse users chromosome/raw input back.. I tried M/K in chromo. That was no where near a PC, I can tell you that for a fact. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.

IceStormers Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 85	Posted - 2013.11.21 17:54:00 - [11] - Quote M McManus wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Aiming better doesn't even matter, you guys can already super strafe to the point you're untrackable. No one wants Unreal Tournament 514 I can strafe quicker with DS3 all you have to do is wigglee left and right and aim assist does the rest for me... This is coming from someone who has used a kb/m for years. Dust has forced me to use the ds3 because aim assist is easy mode and CCP has royally screwed up mouse aiming. .. So they finally broke you, it hurts to be sat uses your DS3 while dreaming of using your mouse again i have now started playing other games, my time on Dust has dropped alot since i gave up on kb/m support in Dust I Support SP Rollover
Eversor Beercase Beer For Evil Mercs 106	Posted - 2013.11.21 17:56:00 - [12] - Quote KBM raw input would be great, but then it would become OP in the eyes of DS3 players. From what I've seen of the squad cup clips the overall tracking of players is, how should I put it nicely ... casual at best?
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 658	Posted - 2013.11.21 17:57:00 - [13] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: bolsh lee wrote: Cat Merc wrote: If there was raw input, there would be no stopping M/K players. I'm saying that as someone who spent the first YEARS of his FPS life playing counter strike. The accuracy I can get with a DS3 + Aim assist is still no way near ot what I can get with a M/K. So no to raw input, unless DS3 had auto aim to the head, because that's basically what I would do to you Catmerc, we bassicly had raw input in chromosome and mouse users didn't excell over ds3, - per the leader boards- how do you explain that ? I get better accuracy with aim assist because my iron site barley moves away from the target even while straffing because of aim assist... Raw input is only fair vs the current aim assist in fact the same can be said for AA.. Since AA has been implemented nothing is stopng DS3 users from walking all over mouse user just a flick of the thumb and its instant headshot. . I'm not saying remove AA leave it the way it is but give mouse users chromosome/raw input back.. I tried M/K in chromo. That was no where near a PC, I can tell you that for a fact. It wasn't raw input, if it was I would tell. You must not be as good as you think with a kb/m then because I was surgical with the AR in chromosome.. Not to mention many others said the same thing about chromosome "It felt like damn near raw input"..
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1795	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:00:00 - [14] - Quote So by raw input you mean, "turn 360 degrees in a split second?"
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 658	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:00:00 - [15] - Quote Eversor Beercase wrote: KBM raw input would be great, but then it would become OP in the eyes of DS3 players. From what I've seen of the squad cup clips the overall tracking of players is, how should I put it nicely ... casual at best? I hear this argument a lot and how could they complain when they have auto tracking aim assist.. I'm sure they will, but wouldn't the response be you have aim assist we don't ?
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 658	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:02:00 - [16] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: So by raw input you mean, "turn 360 degrees in a split second?" Nope not at all because I can do that right now with a high DPI mouse. CCP's hadicap to kb/m only hurt precision aiming while implementation of Aim Assist improved DS3 fine aiming..
Funkmaster Whale Fatal Absolution 1183	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:05:00 - [17] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: So by raw input you mean, "turn 360 degrees in a split second?" I can already do that. That's not the issue here. Mouse controls in this game are dictated by a "thumbstick emulation" scheme where the mouse acts like your thumb moving a joystick. This presents several problems: it makes aiming difficult because of input lag and extremely inconsistent sensitivity. In PC when framerate becomes unbearable it's especially noticeable because there's at least a 100-300 ms delay between mouse movement and camera movement. That may not sound like a lot but in terms of competitive play it's about as good as playing with your elbows. Let me play you the song of my people!
Rei Shepard The Rainbow Effect 1065	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:07:00 - [18] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: So by raw input you mean, "turn 360 degrees in a split second?" False Assumption to think every Mouse User plays at 6500 DPI with sensetivity at 100%, trust me, youll not be hitting anything. My Mouse is set at 1400 DPI, this allows me to fine track anything in front of me, whatever gets behind me my own fault, well that was the "us" thinking back when counterstrike was a hot deal. But not everyone can play on low sense either, so everyone is better with their own settings. I am a low sense type of Mouse Player and require full use of my 30*30cm mousemat to turn 180 degrees...hence i cant use vehicle turrets in this game at all. Turret moves about 2 cm for every full mousemat stroke, but get in front of me and well, your head is gone. Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!" "Accuracy"
M McManus Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 278	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:24:00 - [19] - Quote I have a thread floating around here somewhere 12or so pages and no response from CCP... I guess they feel they can afford to lose us kb/m players because this has gone to long ignore.. I'm done if 1.7 doesn't do something for the mouse controls ..
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 206	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:32:00 - [20] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: So by raw input you mean, "turn 360 degrees in a split second?" I can already do that. That's not the issue here. Mouse controls in this game are dictated by a "thumbstick emulation" scheme where the mouse acts like your thumb moving a joystick. This presents several problems: it makes aiming difficult because of input lag and extremely inconsistent sensitivity. In PC when framerate becomes unbearable it's especially noticeable because there's at least a 100-300 ms delay between mouse movement and camera movement. That may not sound like a lot but in terms of competitive play it's about as good as playing with your elbows. I am not sure where this lie started but it needs to end. Thumbsticks work on acceleration. This means that as you move the stick to the right or left you accelerate in that direction and then you decelerate as you release the thumbstick. The mouse, even in this game, works on precision. You move the mouse by a certain amount and it pertains to an amount of pixels that your camera moves. If the mouse in this game worked based off of acceleration you would need to continually move the mouse in order to rotate. an easy fix to Matchmaking

Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 2432	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:41:00 - [21] - Quote Bump for KBM love. HellsGÇáorm, Director Bringing the Wrath of God down on the Matari since YC114
M McManus Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 278	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:52:00 - [22] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Funkmaster Whale wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: So by raw input you mean, "turn 360 degrees in a split second?" I can already do that. That's not the issue here. Mouse controls in this game are dictated by a "thumbstick emulation" scheme where the mouse acts like your thumb moving a joystick. This presents several problems: it makes aiming difficult because of input lag and extremely inconsistent sensitivity. In PC when framerate becomes unbearable it's especially noticeable because there's at least a 100-300 ms delay between mouse movement and camera movement. That may not sound like a lot but in terms of competitive play it's about as good as playing with your elbows. I am not sure where this lie started but it needs to end. Thumbsticks work on acceleration. This means that as you move the stick to the right or left you accelerate in that direction and then you decelerate as you release the thumbstick. The mouse, even in this game, works on precision. You move the mouse by a certain amount and it pertains to an amount of pixels that your camera moves. If the mouse in this game worked based off of acceleration you would need to continually move the mouse in order to rotate. Go look up eagle eye, frag fx or any DS3 to mouse conversion kit.. It still emulates the DS3 with out the acceleration not to mention since CCP has handicapped the mouse you have these third party devices that do a better job along with allowing mouse users to utilize the OP aim assist...
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 3835	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:07:00 - [23] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: Cat Merc wrote: bolsh lee wrote: Cat Merc wrote: If there was raw input, there would be no stopping M/K players. I'm saying that as someone who spent the first YEARS of his FPS life playing counter strike. The accuracy I can get with a DS3 + Aim assist is still no way near ot what I can get with a M/K. So no to raw input, unless DS3 had auto aim to the head, because that's basically what I would do to you Catmerc, we bassicly had raw input in chromosome and mouse users didn't excell over ds3, - per the leader boards- how do you explain that ? I get better accuracy with aim assist because my iron site barley moves away from the target even while straffing because of aim assist... Raw input is only fair vs the current aim assist in fact the same can be said for AA.. Since AA has been implemented nothing is stopng DS3 users from walking all over mouse user just a flick of the thumb and its instant headshot. . I'm not saying remove AA leave it the way it is but give mouse users chromosome/raw input back.. I tried M/K in chromo. That was no where near a PC, I can tell you that for a fact. It wasn't raw input, if it was I would tell. You must not be as good as you think with a kb/m then because I was surgical with the AR in chromosome.. Not to mention many others said the same thing about chromosome "It felt like damn near raw input".. But it wasn't. It was damn near. I was good with it don't get me wrong. But it was not 1:1. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 3835	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:08:00 - [24] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: Eversor Beercase wrote: KBM raw input would be great, but then it would become OP in the eyes of DS3 players. From what I've seen of the squad cup clips the overall tracking of players is, how should I put it nicely ... casual at best? I hear this argument a lot and how could they complain when they have auto tracking aim assist.. I'm sure they will, but wouldn't the response be you have aim assist we don't ? Because you're the minority. Like it or not, this is a console shooter, if DS3 is the weakest way to control this game is fail. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 206	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:21:00 - [25] - Quote M McManus wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Funkmaster Whale wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: So by raw input you mean, "turn 360 degrees in a split second?" I can already do that. That's not the issue here. Mouse controls in this game are dictated by a "thumbstick emulation" scheme where the mouse acts like your thumb moving a joystick. This presents several problems: it makes aiming difficult because of input lag and extremely inconsistent sensitivity. In PC when framerate becomes unbearable it's especially noticeable because there's at least a 100-300 ms delay between mouse movement and camera movement. That may not sound like a lot but in terms of competitive play it's about as good as playing with your elbows. I am not sure where this lie started but it needs to end. Thumbsticks work on acceleration. This means that as you move the stick to the right or left you accelerate in that direction and then you decelerate as you release the thumbstick. The mouse, even in this game, works on precision. You move the mouse by a certain amount and it pertains to an amount of pixels that your camera moves. If the mouse in this game worked based off of acceleration you would need to continually move the mouse in order to rotate. Go look up eagle eye, frag fx or any DS3 to mouse conversion kit.. It still emulates the DS3 with out the acceleration not to mention since CCP has handicapped the mouse you have these third party devices that do a better job along with allowing mouse users to utilize the OP aim assist... Wow.... I had not seen those devices before. It is so freaking sad how people will do anything for a advantage (i.e. cheat) in a damn video game. How in the world can you have a competitive game when they very basis of it, they method of input, is not equal from player to player? I mean there is a reason why they ban steroids in any sport worth anything. TBH I don't have an answer for attempting to balance a mouse versus a controller. Since they operate on completely different principles (acceleration versus precision), I do not see a way to make them equal without seriously gimping one or the other. Turn speed limits and momentum definitely make sense from a realism standpoint.... but then you make mouse and keyboard users unhappy because they like the unrealistic behavior they are used too (turn 180 degrees in a split second with a 100 kg weapon). Then you have aim assist which to counteract the precision of a mouse and keyboard need to artificially increase the skill of the user. I mean if you were to do raw input mouse versus a controller I am sure aim assist would have to be to be turn so high that as long as you were facing your target you would be hitting it. So what is the right answer? Gimp the mouse or make the controllers half man half AI? an easy fix to Matchmaking
SteelDark Knight Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 155	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:41:00 - [26] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: M McManus wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Funkmaster Whale wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: So by raw input you mean, "turn 360 degrees in a split second?" I can already do that. That's not the issue here. Mouse controls in this game are dictated by a "thumbstick emulation" scheme where the mouse acts like your thumb moving a joystick. This presents several problems: it makes aiming difficult because of input lag and extremely inconsistent sensitivity. In PC when framerate becomes unbearable it's especially noticeable because there's at least a 100-300 ms delay between mouse movement and camera movement. That may not sound like a lot but in terms of competitive play it's about as good as playing with your elbows. I am not sure where this lie started but it needs to end. Thumbsticks work on acceleration. This means that as you move the stick to the right or left you accelerate in that direction and then you decelerate as you release the thumbstick. The mouse, even in this game, works on precision. You move the mouse by a certain amount and it pertains to an amount of pixels that your camera moves. If the mouse in this game worked based off of acceleration you would need to continually move the mouse in order to rotate. Go look up eagle eye, frag fx or any DS3 to mouse conversion kit.. It still emulates the DS3 with out the acceleration not to mention since CCP has handicapped the mouse you have these third party devices that do a better job along with allowing mouse users to utilize the OP aim assist... Wow.... I had not seen those devices before. It is so freaking sad how people will do anything for a advantage (i.e. cheat) in a damn video game. How in the world can you have a competitive game when they very basis of it, they method of input, is not equal from player to player? I mean there is a reason why they ban steroids in any sport worth anything. TBH I don't have an answer for attempting to balance a mouse versus a controller. Since they operate on completely different principles (acceleration versus precision), I do not see a way to make them equal without seriously gimping one or the other. Turn speed limits and momentum definitely make sense from a realism standpoint.... but then you make mouse and keyboard users unhappy because they like the unrealistic behavior they are used too (turn 180 degrees in a split second with a 100 kg weapon). Then you have aim assist which to counteract the precision of a mouse and keyboard need to artificially increase the skill of the user. I mean if you were to do raw input mouse versus a controller I am sure aim assist would have to be to be turn so high that as long as you were facing your target you would be hitting it. So what is the right answer? Gimp the mouse or make the controllers half man half AI? This is why most developers have not even attempted to offer dual compatibility. Your never going to get to a happy medium were both sides are satisfied. Either one side is disenfranchised or everyone is.
Funkmaster Whale Fatal Absolution 1188	Posted - 2013.11.21 20:10:00 - [27] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: So what is the right answer? Gimp the mouse or make the controllers half man half AI? Well considering they've done both of those pretty successfully it's pretty evident they already have their answer. Aim assist completely and utterly beats my own tracking skills (in CQC specifically where things get hectic), which I would be totally fine with if it weren't for the fact that my own input felt like it was 2 tenths of a second behind me. The input delay compounded with framerate lag is really what makes me so frustrated. Aim assist works beyond those aspects because it'll help you stick to the target despite framerate or input lag, where as we don't get that and simply have to cope for those extra factors. Individually it's occasionally manageable but when it all comes together this game becomes more frustration than fun. Let me play you the song of my people!
Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 61	Posted - 2013.11.21 20:27:00 - [28] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Wow.... I had not seen those devices before. It is so freaking sad how people will do anything for a advantage (i.e. cheat) in a damn video game. How in the world can you have a competitive game when they very basis of it, they method of input, is not equal from player to player? I mean there is a reason why they ban steroids in any sport worth anything. TBH I don't have an answer for attempting to balance a mouse versus a controller. Since they operate on completely different principles (acceleration versus precision), I do not see a way to make them equal without seriously gimping one or the other. Turn speed limits and momentum definitely make sense from a realism standpoint.... but then you make mouse and keyboard users unhappy because they like the unrealistic behavior they are used too (turn 180 degrees in a split second with a 100 kg weapon). Then you have aim assist which to counteract the precision of a mouse and keyboard need to artificially increase the skill of the user. I mean if you were to do raw input mouse versus a controller I am sure aim assist would have to be to be turn so high that as long as you were facing your target you would be hitting it. So what is the right answer? Gimp the mouse or make the controllers half man half AI? How is that "cheating?" Anyone can go out and buy a different controller or control mechanism. Hell I would hope that many do because the ones that come with the PS3 suck as they are designed for a child's hands! What about people that are physically disabled in some way? Are you gonna deny them some kind of different input device because you believe it to be cheating? They are not providing preferential treatment or and are not catering to one or the other or saying you must buy this to win. Only you guys are saying this. I too use a KBM, however after the last fix to hit detection plus the AA addition, I've had to switch back to using a controller while waiting for the fragfx shark I ordered from splitfish to come in: http://www.splitfish.com/index.php/en/products/fragfx-shark-ps3-v2013 Oh noes... that's pay to win! No it's not. By doing this it no way guarantees that I'll win anything. It only provides my hands with some of the ergonomic comfort that I'm seeking while still taking advantage of the AA benefits that CCP has coded into the game for EVERYONE to be able to use.
Eskel Bondfree DUST University Ivy League 173	Posted - 2013.11.21 20:42:00 - [29] - Quote I like to think that the main reason for why mouse aiming feels so bad in Dust is that this game has a pisspoor, and completely laughable performance. When I play an ambush match on the reasearch outpost, I swear it feels like the game is running at 20 frames per second all the time. I would urge everyone who hasn't done it yet and thinks raw input automatically fixes the sluggish mouse aiming to try the following: force your PS3 into 540p mode, and turn off crap like edge smothing or full range rgb. Then start Dust, play an ambush match and feel the difference. Sure the game makes your eyes bleed now, but it actually feels smooth, and imo there are worlds between this and playing Dust in 720p. Not claiming raw input wouldn't make a difference, but imo framerate is the real problem with kb/m currently. On the subject of aim assist I want to say the following: for me, being a kb/m player, it ruined the game pretty thourougly and might be enough to make me finally leave for good, after staying with Dust and CCP, hoping for better times to come, for almost 18 months. I've been a PC player for over 15 years, and I claim to be a decent FPS player. And yet, when I jump solo into an ambush match with my basic suit nowadays, I don't stand much of a chance anymore against the average joe coming at me with an aim assisted controller. I never have played any game (let alone an FPS) with a controller in my time. But everyone obliterating me with aim assist made me pick up the damn thing myself, knowing I completely suck with it, and I was doing about as good as with kb/m in an average game. What the hell, this can't be right. So here's a suggestion that I know would help at least me to get some fun again out of this game: reduce the time it takes to kill someone, and give everyone a lot more HP. This would give an average kb/m player exaclty what they need to compete against people shooting self guided bullets: time to react and get their aim on target. Because how am I supposed to make use of my 'super precise' aiming if I am dead within a second? I don't understand why so many people think that just because someone is using a mouse, they automatically are a god like FPS player. There are those that are pro and can pull off headshots en masse, and then there's the average gamer (like me). You know, just about everyone else. Those that are, by definition, not exceptional, but average. These people would like to have fun, too, be it with a controller, with a mouse or the ps move. And so CCP has to continue to find the point where they strike a balance that is acceptable for the biggest number of players possible. To end this wall of text with some nostalgia: Dust was playing pretty uniquely during closed beta, because it was not possible to kill someone in a split second like many players are used to from games like Battlefield. For me it felt weird at first, but I soon liked it because it gave Dust a special flavor and distinctiveness, something it is lacking now.
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 208	Posted - 2013.11.21 20:45:00 - [30] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Wow.... I had not seen those devices before. It is so freaking sad how people will do anything for a advantage (i.e. cheat) in a damn video game. How in the world can you have a competitive game when they very basis of it, they method of input, is not equal from player to player? I mean there is a reason why they ban steroids in any sport worth anything. TBH I don't have an answer for attempting to balance a mouse versus a controller. Since they operate on completely different principles (acceleration versus precision), I do not see a way to make them equal without seriously gimping one or the other. Turn speed limits and momentum definitely make sense from a realism standpoint.... but then you make mouse and keyboard users unhappy because they like the unrealistic behavior they are used too (turn 180 degrees in a split second with a 100 kg weapon). Then you have aim assist which to counteract the precision of a mouse and keyboard need to artificially increase the skill of the user. I mean if you were to do raw input mouse versus a controller I am sure aim assist would have to be to be turn so high that as long as you were facing your target you would be hitting it. So what is the right answer? Gimp the mouse or make the controllers half man half AI? How is that "cheating?" Anyone can go out and buy a different controller or control mechanism. Hell I would hope that many do because the ones that come with the PS3 suck as they are designed for a child's hands! What about people that are physically disabled in some way? Are you gonna deny them some kind of different input device because you believe it to be cheating? They are not providing preferential treatment or and are not catering to one or the other or saying you must buy this to win. Only you guys are saying this. I too use a KBM, however after the last fix to hit detection plus the AA addition, I've had to switch back to using a controller while waiting for the fragfx shark I ordered from splitfish to come in: http://www.splitfish.com/index.php/en/products/fragfx-shark-ps3-v2013 Oh noes... that's pay to win! No it's not. By doing this it no way guarantees that I'll win anything. It only provides my hands with some of the ergonomic comfort that I'm seeking while still taking advantage of the AA benefits that CCP has coded into the game for EVERYONE to be able to use. Wow, chill out there man, you don't have to get so defensive. You also completely missed my point. In order to have competetive gameplay, certain standards must be adhered to. By knowingly order the fragFX in order to utilize third party software (well firmware in the dongle) in conjunction with aim assits, you are in fact cheating. You are using specific hardware meant to circumvent restrictions made by CCP in order to game the system. How is this not cheating? Aim assist (which is not that strong[see battlefield or COD]) is meant to allow acceleration based controllers to compete with precision controllers. What you are doing is bypassing CCP's balancing attempts by using a precision based controller with aim assist. I love that "anyone can buy it" argument, it is so disingenuous. Allow me a corollary: anyone can go out and buy steroids, therefor all athletes should be able to use them. an easy fix to Matchmaking



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