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1.7 respec

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Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1298	Posted - 2013.11.21 08:12:00 - [1] - Quote If the CPM hasn't and still are letting CCP know that the respec coming in 1.7 is completely unfair and has several problems, I urge you to tell CCP and try to get the respec changed. I summed it up in a small post here, but people have also added other problems later in that thread, so I'll just go through all the problems I can think of here as well. For starters it's completely and utter bs that CCP is giving people (vehicle pilots) the option to skill out of vehicles, but people (infantry) can't skill into them. There's several problems with this. 1. CCP is giving a certain amount of the playerbase (vehicle pilots) the freedom to do what they want with their SP, while the rest of the playerbase have to live with their choices, even though the game will be radically changed in 1.7. This gives an unfair advantage to vehicle pilots, and it's something CCP should NOT be doing. 2. As the vehicle pilots won't be forced to put the refunded SP back into vehicles, but can use it where ever they want, CCP is doing an exception to certain players in regards to the often used "choices have consequences" phrase. They give vehicle pilots the option to skill out of their chosen role, which means their choices won't have consequences, while the rest of the playerbase are forced to stick with their choices. Again, this is completely unfair. 3. I personally don't really think this is a huge problem, but it was mentioned in the thread linked above. As vehicle pilots get a respec they can then also skill into the FOTM, while the rest of the playerbase can't. Again, this is an unfair advantage to vehicle pilots. Another reason as to why a vehicle only respec is utter bs is that vehicles aren't the only thing being radically changed in 1.7. AV, and especially the Swarm Launcher is being changed so much (nerfed to the ground in my opinion) that it's completely unfair to use the "choices have consequences" phrase. As it looks like a tank will be the best AV option in 1.7 (maybe the Forge Gun as well), the dedicated AV (Swarm Launcher especially) users would likely have skilled into tanks instead. Without a respec they can't, and in this situation it's very unfair to just tell them that their choices have consequences, more so when the vehicle pilots' choices won't have consequences. In the thread linked above I also saw some vehicle pilots saying they would like their infantry SP refunded as well, so they instead could put it into vehicles. With only a refund of the SP used in the vehicle tree they can't do this. Because of these issues I urge the CPM to tell CCP to change the respec coming in 1.7. A couple of ideas as to how it can be handled instead: 1. CCP can allow the refunded vehicle SP to only be put back into vehicles. This would mean that the vehicle pilots' choices will have consequences, and it won't give them an unfair advantage over infantry. Personally I don't like this option very much as it still leaves the dedicated AV users in a bad situation and I'm not even sure it's possible to do this. 2. CCP can give everyone a full respec. This would solve all the issues I listed above, and in my opinion this is the most fair respec to happen. The game will be radically changed in 1.7 and I think it's only fair to give everyone a respec, as it's hard to tell people that their choices have conseqeunces, when these choices were made with a totally different knowledge. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers!
Sigberct Amni Goonfeet Top Men. 209	Posted - 2013.11.21 15:08:00 - [2] - Quote I can't imagine a way CCP could easily make vehicle SP remain in vehicles. If they can, fine. Problem mostly solved other than AV users being stuck. A full respec is undesirable because it's just more sliding down the never ending slope of respec every time they rehaul something. Then again if this game wasn't changing significantly every other month, we wouldn't be in this situation. Another case of HTFU?
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1729	Posted - 2013.11.21 15:12:00 - [3] - Quote I back you but dont expect anything
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1300	Posted - 2013.11.21 20:14:00 - [4] - Quote Are they overhauling everything about infantry? No. Are they adding SP sinks to infantry? No. The reason infantry complains about respects is to take their SP out of the current flavor of the month to skill into the next one. Caldari logi nerfed? Respec. Flaylock nerfed? Respec. Tac rifles nerfed? Respec. As I've said, they're changing literally everything about vehicles. A respec is only right in this case. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1306	Posted - 2013.11.21 20:16:00 - [5] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Are they overhauling everything about infantry? No. Are they adding SP sinks to infantry? No. The reason infantry complains about respects is to take their SP out of the current flavor of the month to skill into the next one. Caldari logi nerfed? Respec. Flaylock nerfed? Respec. Tac rifles nerfed? Respec. As I've said, they're changing literally everything about vehicles. A respec is only right in this case. Read my post again as you litterally failed to counter any of my points. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers!
Dante Kretschmer D3LTA ACADEMY 90	Posted - 2013.11.21 20:26:00 - [6] - Quote I fail to see the point of the OP, completely. People have SP, they decided to spend it on Vehicles instead of infantry, some used it more wisely than others, so what? Let them put the SP wherever they want to. I, and I guess you too, chose infantry. We had an advantage over them in that field. Let them do what they want now. It's not comparable to flaylock nerfs, vehicles have been redone completely, so a respec is in order. And I can imagine that the vast majority of users playing vehicles will stick to their revamped role They earned their SP and invested it into what they wanted, what they wanted is not close to what is going to be now, so they get the right to respec that portion of their SP. The motto you argue with is great, but common sense first. At any rate the Council's forum is not for this kind of threads: "TL,DR: The Council's Chamber is for discussing the Council itself, not for raising all the concerns you want to discuss with the council about the game. If you have a thread you want a response in, the best way to do this is to send us an email, tweet, or Skype message with a link to the thread you want a comment on. "
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 2136	Posted - 2013.11.21 20:35:00 - [7] - Quote You actually posted this while we were in a meeting, and the topic of respecs came up around the tail end of it. Most of the CPM agrees with you completely that they should do a full rspec, and I took the opportunity to plug this thread. We cited that while we dont know if CCP intends to enable respecs in the future as a feature, but we know they are considering it. If they are, then they should abaolutely offer a full respec this time, as the feature is not ready yet. Once players can do it on their own.... the fear of "we want a respec everytime something is nerfed/buffed" is no longer applicable. Using my phone ti post this, so i'll add more when i have a real keyboard in front of me
Haerr Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 102	Posted - 2013.11.21 23:27:00 - [8] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: snip You are right. +1 Nova Knife wrote: snip Thank you guys for pushing this. Bitter, butthurt and trying to HTFU.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1302	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:41:00 - [9] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Are they overhauling everything about infantry? No. Are they adding SP sinks to infantry? No. The reason infantry complains about respects is to take their SP out of the current flavor of the month to skill into the next one. Caldari logi nerfed? Respec. Flaylock nerfed? Respec. Tac rifles nerfed? Respec. As I've said, they're changing literally everything about vehicles. A respec is only right in this case. Read my post again as you litterally failed to counter any of my points. I didn't bother reading your post. What now? Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Z3R0 GR4VITY The Rainbow Effect 311	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:51:00 - [10] - Quote I personally believe a full respec is a bad idea. I can understand partial respecs when things get changed so much that it becomes necessary. I'd still keep it a partial respec, but maybe include AV weaponry alongside vehicles. "Oh yeah, well where did you buy your clothes, the toilet store?"

Floyd20 Azizora L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 1	Posted - 2013.11.22 12:53:00 - [11] - Quote i would suggest that a full respec should be saved for when we get the racial heavy and light suits. otherwise people will just want they points back again for them when they come out (seems likely for 1.8 or 1.9).
Justicar Karnellia Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 143	Posted - 2013.11.22 14:44:00 - [12] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: You actually posted this while we were in a meeting, and the topic of respecs came up around the tail end of it. Most of the CPM agrees with you completely that they should do a full rspec, and I took the opportunity to plug this thread. We cited that while we dont know if CCP intends to enable respecs in the future as a feature, but we know they are considering it. If they are, then they should abaolutely offer a full respec this time, as the feature is not ready yet. Once players can do it on their own.... the fear of "we want a respec everytime something is nerfed/buffed" is no longer applicable. Using my phone ti post this, so i'll add more when i have a real keyboard in front of me Pretty much spot on. I think once they have a respec mechanic , either a 3 per year (similar to the EVE skill respect) or by Aurum then all these "I want respec" threads will die. Of course, having a half-finished game doesn't help, I imagine we'll see this again when they deliver us extra vehicles, the remaining light and heavy dropsuits plus the remaining weapons, and then some....
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1749	Posted - 2013.11.22 14:49:00 - [13] - Quote Z3R0 GR4VITY wrote: I personally believe a full respec is a bad idea. I can understand partial respecs when things get changed so much that it becomes necessary. I'd still keep it a partial respec, but maybe include AV weaponry alongside vehicles. What about the heavy suit The FG is classed to most as AV anyways but it requires the fatsuit and if you dont want the FG now then you may not want the fatsuit I mean with this respec i can go full infantry and **** and totally ignore vehicles, AV cant do that and they dont get the choice Also at around 20mil SP i had everything i wanted in vehicles, i saved 8mil SP for the pilot suits which never arrived and so i spent the SP on infantry so i could forfil another role on the field but the problem is i couldnt have just saved that SP to wait for anymore vehicle changes because they kept getting pushed further and further back Now the SP sink for vehicles has increased by a factor of 3, the 18mil or so i have now in the vehicle tree will not stretch that far in 1.7 I do need every availble SP i have to get back to where i am now in 1.7, that isnt including the racial vehicles and turrets and pilot suits which are yet to arrive
Haerr Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 103	Posted - 2013.11.23 12:20:00 - [14] - Quote Can we have an update about the plans for a full respec on 1.7?
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1314	Posted - 2013.11.23 14:06:00 - [15] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: You actually posted this while we were in a meeting, and the topic of respecs came up around the tail end of it. Most of the CPM agrees with you completely that they should do a full rspec, and I took the opportunity to plug this thread. We cited that while we dont know if CCP intends to enable respecs in the future as a feature, but we know they are considering it. If they are, then they should abaolutely offer a full respec this time, as the feature is not ready yet. Once players can do it on their own.... the fear of "we want a respec everytime something is nerfed/buffed" is no longer applicable. Using my phone ti post this, so i'll add more when i have a real keyboard in front of me Thank you for pushing this as there are serious flaws with the planned vehicle only respec. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers!
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 328	Posted - 2013.11.23 18:58:00 - [16] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: You actually posted this while we were in a meeting, and the topic of respecs came up around the tail end of it. Most of the CPM agrees with you completely that they should do a full rspec, and I took the opportunity to plug this thread. We cited that while we dont know if CCP intends to enable respecs in the future as a feature, but we know they are considering it. If they are, then they should abaolutely offer a full respec this time, as the feature is not ready yet. Once players can do it on their own.... the fear of "we want a respec everytime something is nerfed/buffed" is no longer applicable. Using my phone ti post this, so i'll add more when i have a real keyboard in front of me Guys...I understand the calls for respecs and good points are benign made on both camps (I'm somewhat ambivalent about it personally). Let me offer this...you should be ok with waiting a couple months because there is a high probability that some additional racial suits and dropsuit roles will be coming out. A respec now is not going to get that helpful...and certainly you can't expect them to drop another full respec in a couple months. This is purely to refresh those that are directly effected by the massive changes in the vehicle system. I actually think that there will be an infantry centric respec around 1.8 or 1.9 based on the projected content adds....why not wait it out?
Patrick57 Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 1687	Posted - 2013.11.23 23:48:00 - [17] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Nova Knife wrote: You actually posted this while we were in a meeting, and the topic of respecs came up around the tail end of it. Most of the CPM agrees with you completely that they should do a full rspec, and I took the opportunity to plug this thread. We cited that while we dont know if CCP intends to enable respecs in the future as a feature, but we know they are considering it. If they are, then they should abaolutely offer a full respec this time, as the feature is not ready yet. Once players can do it on their own.... the fear of "we want a respec everytime something is nerfed/buffed" is no longer applicable. Using my phone ti post this, so i'll add more when i have a real keyboard in front of me Guys...I understand the calls for respecs and good points are benign made on both camps (I'm somewhat ambivalent about it personally). Let me offer this...you should be ok with waiting a couple months because there is a high probability that some additional racial suits and dropsuit roles will be coming out. A respec now is not going to get that helpful...and certainly you can't expect them to drop another full respec in a couple months. This is purely to refresh those that are directly effected by the massive changes in the vehicle system. I actually think that there will be an infantry centric respec around 1.8 or 1.9 based on the projected content adds....why not wait it out? Because not just the vehicles are changing, but AV is going to be completely nerfed into oblivion. How about those people that put every Skill Point they have into destroying tanks? Well, tanks are the new AV (in the case that Forge Guns are not equally effective). Content drops are different from content changes, no? When I'm depressed, I cut myself......A BIG SLICE OF CHOCOLATE CAKE!
DeadlyAztec11 Gallente Federation 2229	Posted - 2013.11.24 08:31:00 - [18] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: You actually posted this while we were in a meeting, and the topic of respecs came up around the tail end of it. Most of the CPM agrees with you completely that they should do a full rspec, and I took the opportunity to plug this thread. We cited that while we dont know if CCP intends to enable respecs in the future as a feature, but we know they are considering it. If they are, then they should abaolutely offer a full respec this time, as the feature is not ready yet. Once players can do it on their own.... the fear of "we want a respec everytime something is nerfed/buffed" is no longer applicable. Using my phone ti post this, so i'll add more when i have a real keyboard in front of me This is why I love Nova Knife. He is short, sweet and to the point, no need for any poetic, ring around the daisy, BS. Thank you, Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10610	Posted - 2013.11.24 11:08:00 - [19] - Quote I just want to avoid the free candy addiction syndrome for the time being. Maybe when all the suits come out a free respec then. Id be pretty upset if we have a respec a month. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
Haerr 104	Posted - 2013.11.24 14:38:00 - [20] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I just want to avoid the free candy addiction syndrome for the time being. Maybe when all the suits come out a free respec then. Id be pretty upset if we have a respec a month. I'd be pretty upset if I had to eat pancakes every day. Since when was a respec every month an option or even discussed?

Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1318	Posted - 2013.11.24 15:04:00 - [21] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I just want to avoid the free candy addiction syndrome for the time being. Maybe when all the suits come out a free respec then. Id be pretty upset if we have a respec a month. It's either that or the refunded SP can only be spent in the same role as it came from. Otherwise CCP is playing favorites and giving certain players an advantage by letting them skill out of their chosen role etc (as listed in the OP). CCP have known for months that a vehicle respec would be unavoidable, so if they didn't want to do a full respec they should've worked out a way to only allow the refunded SP to be spent in the same role. Since they didn't, a full respec is the only option. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers!
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1773	Posted - 2013.11.24 15:37:00 - [22] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I just want to avoid the free candy addiction syndrome for the time being. Maybe when all the suits come out a free respec then. Id be pretty upset if we have a respec a month. It's either that or the refunded SP can only be spent in the same role as it came from. Otherwise CCP is playing favorites and giving certain players an advantage by letting them skill out of their chosen role etc (as listed in the OP). CCP have known for months that a vehicle respec would be unavoidable, so if they didn't want to do a full respec they should've worked out a way to only allow the refunded SP to be spent in the same role. Since they didn't, a full respec is the only option. Spent in the same role but doesnt go as anywhere as far as in 1.6 Frankly CCP knew they were making the SP sink bigger by a factor of 3, players did not know unless you wanted to hold onto your SP for the next year and half I skilled into a secondary role in infantry to help out for PC but since the SP sink for vehicles has been increased by a factor of 3 it means i need all my SP out of infantry Likewise if someone wants to go all vehicles they need every SP they have A full respec is the logical choice and outweighs all negatives and can only give positives When will another total rebalance of any part of the skill tree happen again? frankly it wont and the vehicle tree changes are the biggest to hit and the last to be changed in a long time, all infantry and infantry weapons/mods were balanced long ago with only small changes now n again but this is a 1st for vehicles
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1328	Posted - 2013.11.24 22:20:00 - [23] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Are they overhauling everything about infantry? No. Are they adding SP sinks to infantry? No. The reason infantry complains about respects is to take their SP out of the current flavor of the month to skill into the next one. Caldari logi nerfed? Respec. Flaylock nerfed? Respec. Tac rifles nerfed? Respec. As I've said, they're changing literally everything about vehicles. A respec is only right in this case. Read my post again as you litterally failed to counter any of my points. You don't have any good points anyway. "It's unfair that pilots can skill out of vehicles." Are they changing everything about infantry? Are they expanding the SP necessary to max out everything for vehicles by a factor of 3? Are they reducing the amount of infantry fits you'll be able to work out? Are they removing weapon variants? Are they removing dropsuit modules? I don't know how many times I have to say this. Everything about vehicles is being changed. These aren't any changes we've asked for. This is the culmination of nerfs infantry has been crying for through various builds. In a brilliant twist, AV is getting nerfed too, for the very first time. This isn't some flavor of the month issue. One team can't deploy 16 tanks. This isn't something we did by accident while drunk or high. This is a complete overhaul being done by CCP, and if us pilots don't like the changes, why should we be stuck with the consequences of CCP's actions? Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1328	Posted - 2013.11.24 22:27:00 - [24] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I just want to avoid the free candy addiction syndrome for the time being. Maybe when all the suits come out a free respec then. Id be pretty upset if we have a respec a month. It's either that or the refunded SP can only be spent in the same role as it came from. Otherwise CCP is playing favorites and giving certain players an advantage by letting them skill out of their chosen role etc (as listed in the OP). CCP have known for months that a vehicle respec would be unavoidable, so if they didn't want to do a full respec they should've worked out a way to only allow the refunded SP to be spent in the same role. Since they didn't, a full respec is the only option. Spent in the same role but doesnt go as anywhere as far as in 1.6 Frankly CCP knew they were making the SP sink bigger by a factor of 3, players did not know unless you wanted to hold onto your SP for the next year and half I skilled into a secondary role in infantry to help out for PC but since the SP sink for vehicles has been increased by a factor of 3 it means i need all my SP out of infantry Likewise if someone wants to go all vehicles they need every SP they have A full respec is the logical choice and outweighs all negatives and can only give positives When will another total rebalance of any part of the skill tree happen again? frankly it wont and the vehicle tree changes are the biggest to hit and the last to be changed in a long time, all infantry and infantry weapons/mods were balanced long ago with only small changes now n again but this is a 1st for vehicles You can't present a logical argument to someone that probably wants to say that we should lose the SP for skills they're removing from the skill tree. You know full well infantry has an unfounded, almost cult-like hatred for vehicles. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
pa ck G.L.O.R.Y 1	Posted - 2013.11.24 23:10:00 - [25] - Quote CCP should at least respec us this time. Not just the people spec into vehicle because i might want to spec into vehicles myself but all my sp is in my dropsuits . So please CCP respec us all. Texas
DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 111	Posted - 2013.11.25 08:14:00 - [26] - Quote Justicar Karnellia wrote: Pretty much spot on. I think once they have a respec mechanic , either a 3 per year (similar to the EVE skill respect) or by Aurum then all these "I want respec" threads will die. Just to clarify - EVE doesn't have a respec mechanic. You only can remap your characters primary attributes, not skills.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1777	Posted - 2013.11.25 12:27:00 - [27] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I just want to avoid the free candy addiction syndrome for the time being. Maybe when all the suits come out a free respec then. Id be pretty upset if we have a respec a month. It's either that or the refunded SP can only be spent in the same role as it came from. Otherwise CCP is playing favorites and giving certain players an advantage by letting them skill out of their chosen role etc (as listed in the OP). CCP have known for months that a vehicle respec would be unavoidable, so if they didn't want to do a full respec they should've worked out a way to only allow the refunded SP to be spent in the same role. Since they didn't, a full respec is the only option. Spent in the same role but doesnt go as anywhere as far as in 1.6 Frankly CCP knew they were making the SP sink bigger by a factor of 3, players did not know unless you wanted to hold onto your SP for the next year and half I skilled into a secondary role in infantry to help out for PC but since the SP sink for vehicles has been increased by a factor of 3 it means i need all my SP out of infantry Likewise if someone wants to go all vehicles they need every SP they have A full respec is the logical choice and outweighs all negatives and can only give positives When will another total rebalance of any part of the skill tree happen again? frankly it wont and the vehicle tree changes are the biggest to hit and the last to be changed in a long time, all infantry and infantry weapons/mods were balanced long ago with only small changes now n again but this is a 1st for vehicles You can't present a logical argument to someone that probably wants to say that we should lose the SP for skills they're removing from the skill tree. You know full well infantry has an unfounded, almost cult-like hatred for vehicles. The only thing i agree with the OP is on a full respec Its needed anyways espc for vehicle pilots since we now have to put in 3 times the SP needed when 1.7 drops A partial respec will not work when the number of SP needed has been increased by a factor of 3 A partial respec which forces vehicles pilots to put it all back into vehicles will not work when the number of SP needed has been increased by a factor of 3 so your current SP into vehicles will not stretch as far and get you anywhere near what you need Since i skilled into vehicles i have access to all vehicles/mods and turrets at around 18mil, that 18mil in 1.7 will get me access to vehicles and some mods/turrets but i have to pick and choose wisely and the kicker is in 1.7 i have less vehicles and mods/turrets/skills to skill into because they are removing some mods/skills/turrets The amount of SP will also increase when the other racial vehicles are added along with more racial turrets and MAV/jets/speeders and pilot suits and any mods that may arrive with it As for the 'FOTM arguments' the FOTM players will always skill into FOTM things and it will not change, everytime something is released and its better then ther current thing then they will class it as OP and thus skill into it
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1323	Posted - 2013.11.26 10:28:00 - [28] - Quote Why no CCP statement? Yes, I know I'm impatient, but 1.7 is coming up soon and this is a serious issue. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers!
Haerr 104	Posted - 2013.11.26 11:53:00 - [29] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: Why no CCP statement? Yes, I know I'm impatient, but 1.7 is coming up soon and this is a serious issue. Wondering about this as well.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1325	Posted - 2013.11.28 10:13:00 - [30] - Quote CCP and a part of the CPM is completely missing the point. This has nothing to do with being for or against respecs in general. The vehicle skill tree is being radically changed, so much that a refund of all the SP invested into it is required. That is all fine, no full respec required for this. However, when this refunded SP can be spent anywhere, outside the vehicle skill tree as well, CCP is treating their playerbase unfairly by giving vehicle pilots with SP invested in the vehicle skill tree an unfair advantage over infantry with no/little SP invested in the vehicle skill tree. A full respec is required in this situation. CCP has to correct this mistake. If CCP refuses to correct this mistake it's just another of the continued decisions full of fail that have driven so many players away from this game and lately myself as well, and I was a fairly big fanboy back in closed beta. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers!

Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 669	Posted - 2013.11.28 10:25:00 - [31] - Quote I support the OP, and I am waiting for a DEV response. KDR > ALL ME > KDR ME > ALL
KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1443	Posted - 2013.11.28 16:41:00 - [32] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: I support the OP, and I am waiting for a DEV response. http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1328	Posted - 2013.11.28 19:23:00 - [33] - Quote I've yet to see a reasonable response to why pilots should be able to skill out of vehicles if they don't like the changes, but infantry shouldn't be able to skill into vehicles if they like the changes. That is so backwards and should warrant a respec by itself. Then you also add in all the other factors, like pilots being able to skill into FOTM while the rest of the playerbase can't, pilots maybe needing SP from infantry skills due to higher vehicle SP sinks, AV (Swarm Launcher at least) specialists maybe wanting to skill out of a now fairly useless weapon and into a proper AV weapon in the forms of a Forge Gun or Railgun HAV, and I just can't believe that CCP is doing a vehicle respec only. A vehicle skill tree change isn't just affecting pilots, but the entire playerbase, so of course non-plilots would need a respec as well. Good for me it's been a long time since I threw money at CCP because with decisions like this there's not a chance I would ever throw more at them. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers!
Haerr 106	Posted - 2013.11.28 22:18:00 - [34] - Quote CPM members: is this issue still being talked about or is the current 'solution' (only vehicle SP refund) definitive?
Heavy Salvo Fatal Absolution 103	Posted - 2013.11.29 03:14:00 - [35] - Quote Ah well with the new thread posted in regards to what is being removed/compensation for said removed items and how the respec is going to work it looks as though once again the full respec has been shotdown, regardless we do still have time before the vehicle respec is implemented and I for one am all for a full respec, I have both a devoted Vehicle character and this infantry character with AV weaponry (swarms and AV nades) and to be quite frank I do see how a full respec could potentially unbalance things (tons of consistent PCers specing into FOTM and then crying en mass when its nerfed & the few who simply reinvest the points to improve their current setups crying about the huge number of FOTM players) but then again even if you dont do the respec once the FOTM is nerfed the people who put the points into it when it became available or just recently got to the point where they had proto will cry out when its nerfed although in smaller numbers. No matter what you do, they are going to get upset and people are going to leave or simply stop playing religiously, its almost impossible to be a "devoted" DUST fanboy. hmm I guess I didn't really bring up any REAL pros to balance out the cons but there really aren't any... CCP is stuck in between a rock and a hard place but for those of us twiddling our thumbs and sighing in disappointment everytime the newly released gear we speced into gets nerfed to hell, a full respec or the option to buy one would be a godsend. A salute, to all the toy soldiers left to melt in the sun by those who would only dream of conquest.
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 694	Posted - 2013.11.29 08:00:00 - [36] - Quote Bendtner92, I think you have presented two very valid points in this thread regarding the fact that a full respec is necessary for the 1.7 patch: 1. SP Sink for tanks is increased. True vehicle users (that probably speced into infantry to farm ISK due to vehicles being broken) could then put that infantry SP into vehicles. 2. Vehicle users getting a 'full remap' while others do not. But I would also like to add a third, fourth and fifth one: 3. We are bleeding 'top' players from the game due to various reasons. One being that CCP refuses to listen to playerbase. Another being better games appealing to them. Maybe respecs could bring back some old vets that got screwed by previous buffs/nerfs of skills that CCP did not refund SP for. 4. All racial assault rifles will be added into the game. 5. Core mechanics are now in a good place. All players know the game was released prematurely (lol). DEVs know it. The trend now seems to be for game companies to releases of their games prematurely, so I dont blame CCP for doint it also. If we do not get a full respec in 1.7, we should at least get one in the future, at 2014/5/14 (more epic date than 2013/5/14). And a question to DEVs: Why is it so hard to be consistent with refunding SP when you change stats? Isnt the whole point that we should be able to make decisions that matter to us in this game? KDR > ALL ME > KDR ME > ALL
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10850	Posted - 2013.11.29 10:18:00 - [37] - Quote I strongly believe the word sink should be banned from this debate as its hurting the primary argument of fairity between infantry and vehicle operators. Focus folks. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
Haerr 107	Posted - 2013.11.29 11:10:00 - [38] - Quote I guess being able to spec out of vehicles is good enough, at least for me.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1802	Posted - 2013.11.29 18:01:00 - [39] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I strongly believe the word sink should be banned from this debate as its hurting the primary argument of fairity between infantry and vehicle operators. Focus folks. Ban the word sink? Why? Is it because its true? I have around 18mil SP into vehicles and the turrets, i can access and use all mods and all vehicles with all the turrets i need Now i need all my 32+mil SP into vehicles to get even close to where i was and the kicker is we are losing 6 vehicles to boot and various mods and there skills It should be cheaper SP wise but its not The SP needed has gone up by a factor of 3, we have skills that just access mods and nothing else, they dont even give anything per level We have got more SINKS in 1.7 vehicle tree - fact These SINKS were not in from the start when i choose to go into vehicles, they have been added after i have gone into vehicles and not just 1 or 2months later but 6months later when i maxed out my vehicles tree to where i was competitve enough and any more SP added would have been a waste, any SP after i put into infantry because i had no need to put it into vehicles Now i find out i need to SINK more SP into the vehicle tree and i cant do it, i have infantry stuff which i needed, i wasnt going to hang onto millions of SP for a year or more and wait for CCP to add more stuff for vehicles in the middle of AR514 With this partial respec i can go proto in 3 suits, finish of 3 weapons and hit the core skills to max with SP left to spare With the 32mil i can go into all vehicles and a few turrets but still not be finished, also i am not counting the amarr and minmatar vehicles/turrets/mods/skills and all the racial pilots suits and possibly pilot mods which have yet to be added The vehicle skill tree is a SINK in 1.7, it is that much of a SINK it needs all my SP, it needs so much that when on the ground i will be running BPO fits if i get a full respec for years to come
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10856	Posted - 2013.11.29 18:46:00 - [40] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I strongly believe the word sink should be banned from this debate as its hurting the primary argument of fairity between infantry and vehicle operators. Focus folks. Doesn't understand the idea of focus Now this thread is about redesigning the skill tree. Thank you Takahiro for enlightening our ignorance. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Electronics =// Unlocked

Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1804	Posted - 2013.11.29 19:20:00 - [41] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I strongly believe the word sink should be banned from this debate as its hurting the primary argument of fairity between infantry and vehicle operators. Focus folks. Doesn't understand the idea of focus Now this thread is about redesigning the skill tree. Thank you Takahiro for enlightening our ignorance. Keep changing it to suit your needs but its a SINK Vehicle tree in 1.7 is a SINK - fact I wouldnt have mind it being a SINK if it was changed at least 6months ago so i knew how much SP i needed excatly to flesh out the vehicle tree because if i knew 6months ago that the tree would be such a SP SINK i wouldnt have gone into infantry at all or i could have gone all into infantry and had 4 diff proto suits with 4 proto weapons and all core skills by now You can delete all this text again but you cant delete the fact that the SP needed for the vehicle tree has been increased by a factor of 3 Not including missing racial vehicles/turrets/mods/skills/pilot suits/more mods/more skills I did a quick count, i can SINK into the 1.7 vehicle tree about 60mil SP roughly and thats nearly everything at level 5, including all missing things that could be 100mil of SP which is about 3 years worth at least, using boosters for every week, active and passive So how about you focus on the fact that the vehicle tree has been turned into more of a SINK with 3times the SP needed
T8R Raid BIG BAD W0LVES 44	Posted - 2013.11.30 04:49:00 - [42] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: You actually posted this while we were in a meeting, and the topic of respecs came up around the tail end of it. Most of the CPM agrees with you completely that they should do a full rspec, and I took the opportunity to plug this thread. We cited that while we dont know if CCP intends to enable respecs in the future as a feature, but we know they are considering it. If they are, then they should abaolutely offer a full respec this time, as the feature is not ready yet. Once players can do it on their own.... the fear of "we want a respec everytime something is nerfed/buffed" is no longer applicable. Using my phone ti post this, so i'll add more when i have a real keyboard in front of me I believed the CPM was in it for the game until now, the CPM looks like the 'flavor of the month' elitists... great...
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10879	Posted - 2013.11.30 09:57:00 - [43] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I strongly believe the word sink should be banned from this debate as its hurting the primary argument of fairity between infantry and vehicle operators. Focus folks. Doesn't understand the idea of focus Now this thread is about redesigning the skill tree. Thank you Takahiro for enlightening our ignorance. Keep changing it to suit your needs but its a SINK Vehicle tree in 1.7 is a SINK - fact I wouldnt have mind it being a SINK if it was changed at least 6months ago so i knew how much SP i needed excatly to flesh out the vehicle tree because if i knew 6months ago that the tree would be such a SP SINK i wouldnt have gone into infantry at all or i could have gone all into infantry and had 4 diff proto suits with 4 proto weapons and all core skills by now You can delete all this text again but you cant delete the fact that the SP needed for the vehicle tree has been increased by a factor of 3 Not including missing racial vehicles/turrets/mods/skills/pilot suits/more mods/more skills I did a quick count, i can SINK into the 1.7 vehicle tree about 60mil SP roughly and thats nearly everything at level 5, including all missing things that could be 100mil of SP which is about 3 years worth at least, using boosters for every week, active and passive So how about you focus on the fact that the vehicle tree has been turned into more of a SINK with 3times the SP needed Lets double the sink then! CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Electronics =// Unlocked
D3LTA Blitzkrieg II 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 52	Posted - 2013.11.30 11:28:00 - [44] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Keep changing it to suit your needs but its a SINK Vehicle tree in 1.7 is a SINK - fact I wouldnt have mind it being a SINK if it was changed at least 6months ago so i knew how much SP i needed excatly to flesh out the vehicle tree because if i knew 6months ago that the tree would be such a SP SINK i wouldnt have gone into infantry at all or i could have gone all into infantry and had 4 diff proto suits with 4 proto weapons and all core skills by now You can delete all this text again but you cant delete the fact that the SP needed for the vehicle tree has been increased by a factor of 3 Not including missing racial vehicles/turrets/mods/skills/pilot suits/more mods/more skills I did a quick count, i can SINK into the 1.7 vehicle tree about 60mil SP roughly and thats nearly everything at level 5, including all missing things that could be 100mil of SP which is about 3 years worth at least, using boosters for every week, active and passive So how about you focus on the fact that the vehicle tree has been turned into more of a SINK with 3times the SP needed Lets double the sink then! Let us forget about respeccing at all Let us continue to derail this thread by making noise that unfocuses on the subject of respecs at all. still puzzles me how u managed to become cpm O.H Tourney Team: slaying Regnums K.D one PC at a time
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1804	Posted - 2013.11.30 12:20:00 - [45] - Quote D3LTA Blitzkrieg II wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Keep changing it to suit your needs but its a SINK Vehicle tree in 1.7 is a SINK - fact I wouldnt have mind it being a SINK if it was changed at least 6months ago so i knew how much SP i needed excatly to flesh out the vehicle tree because if i knew 6months ago that the tree would be such a SP SINK i wouldnt have gone into infantry at all or i could have gone all into infantry and had 4 diff proto suits with 4 proto weapons and all core skills by now You can delete all this text again but you cant delete the fact that the SP needed for the vehicle tree has been increased by a factor of 3 Not including missing racial vehicles/turrets/mods/skills/pilot suits/more mods/more skills I did a quick count, i can SINK into the 1.7 vehicle tree about 60mil SP roughly and thats nearly everything at level 5, including all missing things that could be 100mil of SP which is about 3 years worth at least, using boosters for every week, active and passive So how about you focus on the fact that the vehicle tree has been turned into more of a SINK with 3times the SP needed Lets double the sink then! Let us forget about respeccing at all Let us continue to derail this thread by making noise that unfocuses on the subject of respecs at all. still puzzles me how u managed to become cpm Its that big of a mystery Sherlock/Columbo or Monk couldnt solve it He says to focus on respecs yet chooses to write 2 pointless replies to this thread about how we shouldnt be asking for a respec a month which frankly hasnt turned up once in this thread and he would realise that if he read the thread and the 2nd pointless post about how we should stop calling it a SINK when it is blatently a SINK If he actually posted about how we should be focusing on the respec part of it then fine and all my posts address that issue since i know alot of vehicle pilots need a full respec to go back to vehicles but trying to explain that to him is like talking to a duck while its listening to white noise and practising yoga
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10884	Posted - 2013.11.30 18:50:00 - [46] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: D3LTA Blitzkrieg II wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Keep changing it to suit your needs but its a SINK Vehicle tree in 1.7 is a SINK - fact I wouldnt have mind it being a SINK if it was changed at least 6months ago so i knew how much SP i needed excatly to flesh out the vehicle tree because if i knew 6months ago that the tree would be such a SP SINK i wouldnt have gone into infantry at all or i could have gone all into infantry and had 4 diff proto suits with 4 proto weapons and all core skills by now You can delete all this text again but you cant delete the fact that the SP needed for the vehicle tree has been increased by a factor of 3 Not including missing racial vehicles/turrets/mods/skills/pilot suits/more mods/more skills I did a quick count, i can SINK into the 1.7 vehicle tree about 60mil SP roughly and thats nearly everything at level 5, including all missing things that could be 100mil of SP which is about 3 years worth at least, using boosters for every week, active and passive So how about you focus on the fact that the vehicle tree has been turned into more of a SINK with 3times the SP needed Lets double the sink then! Let us forget about respeccing at all Let us continue to derail this thread by making noise that unfocuses on the subject of respecs at all. still puzzles me how u managed to become cpm Its that big of a mystery Sherlock/Columbo or Monk couldnt solve it He says to focus on respecs yet chooses to write 2 pointless replies to this thread about how we shouldnt be asking for a respec a month which frankly hasnt turned up once in this thread and he would realise that if he read the thread and the 2nd pointless post about how we should stop calling it a SINK when it is blatently a SINK If he actually posted about how we should be focusing on the respec part of it then fine and all my posts address that issue since i know alot of vehicle pilots need a full respec to go back to vehicles but trying to explain that to him is like talking to a duck while its listening to white noise and practising yoga Please continue to derail the conversation. Let us sink plenty of time away into the subject. Let us forego the need to address the respec any further and leave it broken as is. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Electronics =// Unlocked
Heavy Salvo Fatal Absolution 105	Posted - 2013.11.30 20:15:00 - [47] - Quote WELL insofar we have the Vehicle perspective although it seems as though you are quite upset he & the other pilots aren't looking at this from the infantry perspective and I'm assuming also disregarding the "free candy syndrome" you brought up at the beginning of this whole thing. well then let me get your opinion on this,Saber, what exactly do you think is unfair in regards to a full respec in 1.7 from an infantry perspective? A salute, to all the toy soldiers left to melt in the sun by those who would only dream of conquest.
Heavy Salvo Fatal Absolution 105	Posted - 2013.11.30 20:16:00 - [48] - Quote Heavy Salvo wrote: WELL insofar we have the Vehicle perspective although it seems as though you are quite upset he & the other pilots aren't looking at this from the infantry perspective and I'm assuming also disregarding the "free candy syndrome" you brought up at the beginning of this whole thing. well then let me get your opinion on this,Saber, what exactly do you think is unfair in regards to a full respec in 1.7 from an infantry perspective? Seeing as I'd like to know exactly what your opinion is on the matter before you just start blowing off what people have to say. (my bad didnt mean to double post ) A salute, to all the toy soldiers left to melt in the sun by those who would only dream of conquest.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10885	Posted - 2013.11.30 21:22:00 - [49] - Quote Heavy Salvo wrote: WELL insofar we have the Vehicle perspective although it seems as though you are quite upset he & the other pilots aren't looking at this from the infantry perspective and I'm assuming also disregarding the "free candy syndrome" you brought up at the beginning of this whole thing. well then let me get your opinion on this,Saber, what exactly do you think is unfair in regards to a full respec in 1.7 from an infantry perspective? I'm on the fence which is why Takahiro is sort of hurting the entire conversation because he's pushing me away from wanting to side with the respeccers because by his logic it would be far more effective to redesign the tree which I wont also argue but its an entirely seperate issue. For Players are bored with their current fits. Some have made mistakes Players are feeling left out because they may have made the mistake of speccing into infantry when vehicles was their real calling. Against Free Candy Syndrome - the idea of a free respec at the time of anything gets nerfed, this behavior was well established back in beta and there are plenty of people who are very hard at letting go. Future Prospects - In combination with FCS this will hurt any potential to monetize the and automate the system if it ever gets developed on because it was something offered regularly for free and now has to be paid for. Buy 1 get 2 free is now buy 1 get one 1 free type of backlash. Notation See how 0 of these points have to do with the horrible tree design? CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Electronics =// Unlocked
David Spd Caldari State 111	Posted - 2013.11.30 23:22:00 - [50] - Quote In my opinion committing to "no respecs" this early is bad. The main reason is because older players like myself didn't really have a choice when it came to "assault" type races etc. True there was a full respect that I took advantage of but it becomes a problem of: what do people do that came after that respec? Maybe they like heavies but the only option they have right now is Amarr. Or what about Scouts? Nobody can play a Caldari scout right now and maybe they really wanted to? Not only this but the system is in a constant state of flux when it comes to balance. It seems to me CCP isn't really 100% decided on what they want balance to look like, and I feel it's a bit anti-consumer to always push these big changes onto us while backing us into a corner of what kind of content we want to experience due to missing content. One could argue, yes, you could have saved your SP knowing that the game has more to offer for racial variants and whatnot, but I think it's a bit unrealistic to expect, plan for, and ultimately have the patience and tolerance to play the game with no SP invested because you want to invest in something that may or may not be in the game a year later. I know there's the big concern of "Flavor of the Month" and I think it is a real thing, but I also believe that if CCP is doing their job properly then the "FOTM Syndrome" will be less and less drastic as they get the hang of how to initially release or balance things. FOTM may do a bit of damage to the community/economy but I think the rate that people discover and address this problem will help things get fixed faster, and will ultimately be a good thing. Don't misunderstand, I don't believe frequent respecs are good but I do think that until CCP has substantial racial content and can say, "Well we're going to not focus so much on creating racial variants, and we're fairly confident in where our balance is" I think giving respecs to all players after larger patches is a good idea, and will lessen the amount of backlash from players from the initial sweeping balance change. Obviously there are going to be people that feel they're entitled to a respec no matter what the circumstance, and they will find any possible argument to try and convince you otherwise, but if people invest into "FOTM" after sweeping changes only to have it nerfed then I think this is one of the rare times where "HTFU" actually applies. Skill into what you want to play, and if it's UP beg CCP to change it, if it's OP expect a nerf. Vehicles are.. a unique circumstance and I don't blame people for speccing into infantry at all. Better to play the game in SOME capacity, right? It's taken them ages to get this far on vehicles and I would be furious if I was a vehicle pilot. I personally want to see fairly regular respecs (one every six months for as long as these types of changes are happening) but CCP needs to be blunt and VERY open about frequency and when they will and will not be happening. They should also strongly urge people to spec into what they actually want to play (not what they think will make them win) in the event that no other "free respec" happens. Another wall o' text from me. You're welcome. --> I'm a closed beta vet; I just don't post often <-- "Other people just complicate my life." ~Solid Snake

IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 372	Posted - 2013.12.01 02:10:00 - [51] - Quote Honestly you would be better off getting no respec. I reason this because......you should go by the logic "if you can use it now, you should still be able to use it after patch". I never understood why you guys want a respec when you could potentially get free SP. CCP has changed the skill tree in EVE many times, and they always end up giving away millions of free skill points to players. If you get a respec, you give away all those potential skill points. You say the grind will be longer......THAN WHY are you advocating for a respec. Lastly, respec should be monetized the same as boosters. You plug it into a skill you dont want and it lasts for however long you pay for it. Think of it as a negative skill boosters that takes the skill points out of a skill and allocates it back into your pool at the same rate you earn passive SP. I say montoize because there will always be a push and pull of FOTM and the next nerf, it mixes up game play and thats just how the game remains fresh. PHI Recruitment or PHIsh Tank in game Twitch
Heavy Salvo Fatal Absolution 110	Posted - 2013.12.01 04:23:00 - [52] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Honestly you would be better off getting no respec. I reason this because......you should go by the logic "if you can use it now, you should still be able to use it after patch". I never understood why you guys want a respec when you could potentially get free SP. CCP has changed the skill tree in EVE many times, and they always end up giving away millions of free skill points to players. If you get a respec, you give away all those potential skill points. You say the grind will be longer......THAN WHY are you advocating for a respec. Lastly, respec should be monetized the same as boosters. You plug it into a skill you dont want and it lasts for however long you pay for it. Think of it as a negative skill boosters that takes the skill points out of a skill and allocates it back into your pool at the same rate you earn passive SP. I say montoize because there will always be a push and pull of FOTM and the next nerf, it mixes up game play and thats just how the game remains fresh. "Potentially get free SP." I understand you're saying this goes on in EVE however speaking for a majority of the people I play with on DUST ....what is considered common place there generally has little to no bearing in DUST, not saying I don't value you're point but I have not seen it hinted at or said that in place of a respec we could be given "free sp" which could potentially be a good alternative but a few questions come to mind seeing as how EVE sp accumulation works and DUST sp accumulation works I cant really wrap my head around how getting free SP in eve works and how it could be implemented into DUST, 1. isn't SP just a value tacked onto your character (increasing values the higher the skill your training) that when added up add to the value of your character should you ever choose to sell it and also forces you to purchase higher quality clones to add another element of risk to the game, being the loss of trained skills if you do not have a high enough quality clone to retain your total SP? 2. if the latter is true then how does giving "free sp" to EVE players translate to DUST, I couldn't see giving mercs hundreds of thousands or millions of SP to mercs a good thing, only worsening the gap between newer players and vets. (raising the bar for vets in pc making it more difficult for newer players to reach the total SP they need for a corp to feel comfortable putting them into a pc) 3.I agree there will and always has been a certain magnetism to FOTM whether in the endgame aspect (PC) or simply wanting to PUB stomp more efficiently and giving respecs to people with 10s of millions of SP only to allow us to better allocate it and enhance our already favorite builds is unfair to those people with just the minimum SP required to get the gear they need to compete who even after a respec must either pull away from the endgame scene to put points into what they consider fun and grind away for months until they have it perfected enough to compete with the latest FOTM or put everything they have into the newest FOTM and deal with the hate that goes hand in hand with it. 3(Addendum). and tbh I wanted to make a point of how a respec would benefit people who invested SP into the new content simply to have something new to use but this falls under the "For" section IWS brought up earlier that being "players who are bored with their current fits." but it seems to me a better idea would be to add another group to that section, those being the competitive scene (endgame,pc, whatever.) vehicle users who (may not have happened to some but I had first hand experience with this) were urged by their corpmates and CEOs/directors to invest points into an infantry suit in order to cut costs in PC and add more versatility to their repertoire, although personally I had my own tanker and decided that in order for me to fully grasp how to build and run the vehicles provided to us I would have to forego the competitive scene in order to keep from outside influences persuading me to invest SP in places other than my Vehicle tree to benefit the corporation as a whole. Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I'm on the fence which is why Takahiro is sort of hurting the entire conversation because he's pushing me away from wanting to side with the respeccers because by his logic it would be far more effective to redesign the tree which I wont also argue but its an entirely seperate issue. For Players are bored with their current fits. Some have made mistakes Players are feeling left out because they may have made the mistake of speccing into infantry when vehicles was their real calling. Against Free Candy Syndrome - the idea of a free respec at the time of anything gets nerfed, this behavior was well established back in beta and there are plenty of people who are very hard at letting go. Future Prospects - In combination with FCS this will hurt any potential to monetize the and automate the system if it ever gets developed on because it was something offered regularly for free and now has to be paid for. Buy 1 get 2 free is now buy 1 get one 1 free type of backlash. Notation See how 0 of these points have to do with the horrible tree design? First off I'd like to apologize for being so rude in my last post and thank you for still posting regardless of that. After reading through this thread a few times and considering what I already know and how I feel about the respecs I see where the full respec does butt heads with the potential sales of full respecs for AUR and how giving them out was and still is a problem both in how well the respecs are handled ( the incident with people going hundreds of million negative with the last respec) and how once they are given out players expect it to happen again and again and where eventually having it available for sale could result in a negative response from the community (assuming full respecs are--- A salute, to all the toy soldiers left to melt in the sun by those who would only dream of conquest.
Heavy Salvo Fatal Absolution 110	Posted - 2013.12.01 04:39:00 - [53] - Quote jeez this is turning into an essay! (given out on a regular basis before it is given a cash value) so going back to Aura's input in regards to how EVE handles changes to the skill tree is there anyway to use a different method to A.Familiarize the player-base with new content BEFORE they "waste" SP ex.The distribution of the black eagle suits and its BPO weaponry,while it may or may not be considered new content it was a great way to introduce players to a new dropsuit/playstyle concept with no risk to them. B.Find a way to console players already upset at their previous investments getting nerfed only to have their most recent investments also nerfed (FOTM QQers). ex.The SP events, something around this idea at the time of the update or possibly the day of and a few days after in which SP gain is increased dramatically in order to allow access to new content earlier AND inevitably lead to bugs being identified and resolved quicker and feedback on new content coming in earlier and in larger numbers. honestly I think the best way to go about this is to find a new method of cushioning the blow so to speak of nerfs/new content, seeing as continuing on the path of respecs not only hurts the player-base but the developers future plans for the respecs. I understand this is not only going off-topic for my replies but for this thread entirely BUT I do feel it is a step in the right direction albeit one CCP seems to have already made and we(the players) refuse to realize. A salute, to all the toy soldiers left to melt in the sun by those who would only dream of conquest.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1333	Posted - 2013.12.01 08:05:00 - [54] - Quote I still can't believe this is how CCP chooses to treat their players. Thanks for trying to talk sense into CCP, but I see it's a lost cause. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers!
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1807	Posted - 2013.12.01 12:28:00 - [55] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Heavy Salvo wrote: WELL insofar we have the Vehicle perspective although it seems as though you are quite upset he & the other pilots aren't looking at this from the infantry perspective and I'm assuming also disregarding the "free candy syndrome" you brought up at the beginning of this whole thing. well then let me get your opinion on this,Saber, what exactly do you think is unfair in regards to a full respec in 1.7 from an infantry perspective? I'm on the fence which is why Takahiro is sort of hurting the entire conversation because he's pushing me away from wanting to side with the respeccers because by his logic it would be far more effective to redesign the tree which I wont also argue but its an entirely seperate issue. BS Dont pin your indecisiveness on me because you are ***** useless I havnt even mentioned about redesigning the tree, CCP has already done that if you paid attention which you obv *** havnt The vehicle tree has been completely redesigned if you didnt notice and because of that its more of an SP sink which means my 18mil into vehicles now will not go as far as in 1.7 so hence a full respec is needed Anyone else who is skilled into even 1 part of the vehicle tree for just say a ADS might aswell give up not and go into full infantry like a few are doing because its more of an SP sink Why the do i even bother, CPM blames anyone but themselves for being ***** useless
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 241	Posted - 2013.12.01 17:38:00 - [56] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I just want to avoid the free candy addiction syndrome for the time being. Maybe when all the suits come out a free respec then. Id be pretty upset if we have a respec a month. We need one for christmas! Just a free, change of pace. Most people are bored and upset with the current progress. Offering one, until they can get more content out, won't hurt matters! I agree, they shouldn't be handed out like candy. But, in a game like this, respecs will do more good than harm at this point. And it's nearing the end of the year. People are bored, and tired of grinding out SP (most of us I think are). Content is a ways down the road, and a lot of people understand this. 6 months so far, and no new content. Many have made mistakes, and could be more effective if they were allowed to redo some SP. Which in turn equals fewer people complaining about Pub Stomp. ( not to mention the playerbase a respec has the potential to bring back, which will help with the awful matchmaking.) FotM, who cares. This is CCP's problem, for allowing the imbalances to run rampant. People should really quit blaming the players. They did the homework, and went with the strongest choice. To me, the strongest setup, is the smartest setup. Why the hell are you going to play with gimped toys? I feel no love for Fotm haters, their jealousy is becoming ridiculous. I understand, that we do have more weapons coming out with 1.7. But what I find unbalanced, is the fact that you won't be offering anyone a limited respec to go into one of the new rifles, over the AR that I'm so tired of seeing on the field. Why? That would ** me the hell off! All these weapons, that should have been here at the start of the game, now need to be ground out. Ugh. Just so very tired of this beta **. And hardly any progress to boot. You have a wonderful idea, and have poorly executed that idea. So many promises; trailers, blogs, the hype. Not a one of them have been realized. Hell, you completely started over with tanks, because there was too much "noise". Now 3 months later, half the games life, you are releasing the reworked tanks. And they still aren't even finished! Jesus, am I the only one that thinks we took a step backwards?? How many more months fixing the imbalances with just vehicles?? The future, looks bleak. And No, I don't want anymore promises. Results would be nice. Nuff Said
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 241	Posted - 2013.12.01 18:06:00 - [57] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Heavy Salvo wrote: WELL insofar we have the Vehicle perspective although it seems as though you are quite upset he & the other pilots aren't looking at this from the infantry perspective and I'm assuming also disregarding the "free candy syndrome" you brought up at the beginning of this whole thing. well then let me get your opinion on this,Saber, what exactly do you think is unfair in regards to a full respec in 1.7 from an infantry perspective? I'm on the fence which is why Takahiro is sort of hurting the entire conversation because he's pushing me away from wanting to side with the respeccers because by his logic it would be far more effective to redesign the tree which I wont also argue but its an entirely seperate issue. BS Dont pin your indecisiveness on me because you are ***** useless I havnt even mentioned about redesigning the tree, CCP has already done that if you paid attention which you obv *** havnt The vehicle tree has been completely redesigned if you didnt notice and because of that its more of an SP sink which means my 18mil into vehicles now will not go as far as in 1.7 so hence a full respec is needed Anyone else who is skilled into even 1 part of the vehicle tree for just say a ADS might aswell give up not and go into full infantry like a few are doing because its more of an SP sink Why the do i even bother, CPM blames anyone but themselves for being *** useless You make a valid, solid point. They did not inform us that they were making an even bigger SP sink. So now I will be half as effective with a tank as before. Or I can drop those tank points and go full on infantry, and be effective. But what I can't do is drop the infantry (which was a secondary path I took after getting my tanks to where I wanted them) and go full on tank. It's a good point you make Takahiro. I've just read the rest of your posts and I'm right there with you. Vehicle users are getting the short end of the stick, and AV classes, and other infantry are getting beat with that stick. This particular CPM Iron Wolf Saber, has been known to be illogical when something comes up that he can't full grasp. He has berated the community he is supposed to serve with oh wow, you are stupid, that can't work and I won't listen to you anymore rhetoric. Clearly, this fella has yet to reach adulthood. A small child could see the logic in what you were saying. This isn't the first time Iron Wolf Saber has acted the part of a total douche, and it won't be the last time. I for one am sick and tired of this CPM and his trolling. It's clear, that he can't grasp the whole of what people are trying to illustrate. Instead he says, "oh great, now Sink is ruining this conversation", and because you used that word, you must be talking about redoing the skill tree. Tha . Are you really that stupid. You are the one actually taking our ideas (that you can't begin to grasp) to CCP?? It's time you step the hell down buddy. You hurt most conversations you go into. Not the people but you Iron. Then you start threads ridiculing the people who have serious issues because you failed to grasp what was being said. And here you are doing it again. Well buddy, no help from me this time. I was pissed the first time, and held my cool. Now ** it, you clearly are not worth the time. Nuff Said
Heavy Salvo Fatal Absolution 111	Posted - 2013.12.01 18:13:00 - [58] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Heavy Salvo wrote: WELL insofar we have the Vehicle perspective although it seems as though you are quite upset he & the other pilots aren't looking at this from the infantry perspective and I'm assuming also disregarding the "free candy syndrome" you brought up at the beginning of this whole thing. well then let me get your opinion on this,Saber, what exactly do you think is unfair in regards to a full respec in 1.7 from an infantry perspective? I'm on the fence which is why Takahiro is sort of hurting the entire conversation because he's pushing me away from wanting to side with the respeccers because by his logic it would be far more effective to redesign the tree which I wont also argue but its an entirely seperate issue. BS Dont pin your indecisiveness on me because you are ***** useless I havnt even mentioned about redesigning the tree, CCP has already done that if you paid attention which you obv *** havnt The vehicle tree has been completely redesigned if you didnt notice and because of that its more of an SP sink which means my 18mil into vehicles now will not go as far as in 1.7 so hence a full respec is needed Anyone else who is skilled into even 1 part of the vehicle tree for just say a ADS might aswell give up not and go into full infantry like a few are doing because its more of an SP sink Why the do i even bother, CPM blames anyone but themselves for being *** useless You make a valid, solid point. They did not inform us that they were making an even bigger SP sink. So now I will be half as effective with a tank as before. Or I can drop those tank points and go full on infantry, and be effective. But what I can't do is drop the infantry (which was a secondary path I took after getting my tanks to where I wanted them) and go full on tank. It's a good point you make Takahiro. I've just read the rest of your posts and I'm right there with you. Vehicle users are getting the short end of the stick, and AV classes, and other infantry are getting beat with that stick. This particular CPM Iron Wolf Saber, has been known to be illogical when something comes up that he can't full grasp. He has berated the community he is supposed to serve with oh wow, you are stupid, that can't work and I won't listen to you anymore rhetoric. Clearly, this fella has yet to reach adulthood. A small child could see the logic in what you were saying. This isn't the first time Iron Wolf Saber has acted the part of a total douche, and it won't be the last time. I for one am sick and tired of this CPM and his trolling. It's clear, that he can't grasp the whole of what people are trying to illustrate. Instead he says, "oh great, now Sink is ruining this conversation", and because you used that word, you must be talking about redoing the skill tree. Tha . Are you really that stupid. You are the one actually taking our ideas (that you can't begin to grasp) to CCP?? It's time you step the hell down buddy. You hurt most conversations you go into. Not the people but you Iron. Then you start threads ridiculing the people who have serious issues because you failed to grasp what was being said. And here you are doing it again. Well buddy, no help from me this time. I was pissed the first time, and held my cool. Now ** it, you clearly are not worth the time. Validating the fact that the soon to be implemented vehicle skill trees increased SP values are ridiculous, Yes hes blowing off what their saying, but hes trying to discuss JUST the respec whereas as hes already mentioned and you should be aware of the vehicle skill trees issues cant simply be fixed with a full respec and would require a full redesign of the vehicle skill tree WHICH IS WHY he is refusing to discuss it any further, while your opinions and points are valid could we please just focus on the SP reset and/or ideas for a different method? A salute, to all the toy soldiers left to melt in the sun by those who would only dream of conquest.
Dalmont Legrand Nemesis Ad Astra RUST415 91	Posted - 2013.12.01 18:14:00 - [59] - Quote SORRY FOR CAPS CANDY OF RESPEC WILL PERSIST UNTIL OUR WEAPONS WON'T SUFFER MAJOR CHANGES. In eve we don't suffer these changes as game is balanced so many times it is mostly stable. EVEN THE GAME IS RELEASED WE STILL SUFFER CHANGES. Of something nothing is everything.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8176	Posted - 2013.12.01 18:18:00 - [60] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: You actually posted this while we were in a meeting, and the topic of respecs came up around the tail end of it. Most of the CPM agrees with you completely that they should do a full rspec, and I took the opportunity to plug this thread. We cited that while we dont know if CCP intends to enable respecs in the future as a feature, but we know they are considering it. If they are, then they should abaolutely offer a full respec this time, as the feature is not ready yet. Once players can do it on their own.... the fear of "we want a respec everytime something is nerfed/buffed" is no longer applicable. Using my phone ti post this, so i'll add more when i have a real keyboard in front of me This could use its own thread Read / Vid / Stream

daishi mk03 BLACK-GUARD Die Fremdenlegion 443	Posted - 2013.12.01 18:25:00 - [61] - Quote Takahiro is mad, because he has skilled into heavy suits and has to run with a duvolle now. Vehicle respec yay, full respec NO. Also, he is a Minmatar spie. To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin. The Scriptures,Book of Missions
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1809	Posted - 2013.12.01 19:16:00 - [62] - Quote daishi mk03 wrote: Takahiro is mad, because he has skilled into heavy suits and has to run with a duvolle now. Vehicle respec yay, full respec NO. Also, he is a Minmatar spie. I like my heavy suit and duvolle I just dont use em anymore except for my BPO stuff Partial respec is no good to me, i specced out all my vehicles and got everything i needed and trained up a secondary infantry role Now that SP wont go as far Full respec doesnt hurt the game, the game is beta with half the classes unfinished anyways Partial respec tho to only a few means i can go full infantry and pubstomp and if you liked vehicles then tough no respec for you and im not forced to go back into vehicles either
daishi mk03 BLACK-GUARD Die Fremdenlegion 443	Posted - 2013.12.01 19:21:00 - [63] - Quote I don't get what you trying to say but you can spec a tank easily for 20m next patch 1.7 and you will get a respec, because you tanker and you are mad and you can also go infantry and you are Minmatar spy edit: execuse my english, its not language of my mother To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin. The Scriptures,Book of Missions
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 246	Posted - 2013.12.01 19:45:00 - [64] - Quote Heavy Salvo wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Heavy Salvo wrote: WELL insofar we have the Vehicle perspective although it seems as though you are quite upset he & the other pilots aren't looking at this from the infantry perspective and I'm assuming also disregarding the "free candy syndrome" you brought up at the beginning of this whole thing. well then let me get your opinion on this,Saber, what exactly do you think is unfair in regards to a full respec in 1.7 from an infantry perspective? I'm on the fence which is why Takahiro is sort of hurting the entire conversation because he's pushing me away from wanting to side with the respeccers because by his logic it would be far more effective to redesign the tree which I wont also argue but its an entirely seperate issue. BS Dont pin your indecisiveness on me because you are ***** useless I havnt even mentioned about redesigning the tree, CCP has already done that if you paid attention which you obv *** havnt The vehicle tree has been completely redesigned if you didnt notice and because of that its more of an SP sink which means my 18mil into vehicles now will not go as far as in 1.7 so hence a full respec is needed Anyone else who is skilled into even 1 part of the vehicle tree for just say a ADS might aswell give up not and go into full infantry like a few are doing because its more of an SP sink Why the do i even bother, CPM blames anyone but themselves for being *** useless You make a valid, solid point. They did not inform us that they were making an even bigger SP sink. So now I will be half as effective with a tank as before. Or I can drop those tank points and go full on infantry, and be effective. But what I can't do is drop the infantry (which was a secondary path I took after getting my tanks to where I wanted them) and go full on tank. It's a good point you make Takahiro. I've just read the rest of your posts and I'm right there with you. Vehicle users are getting the short end of the stick, and AV classes, and other infantry are getting beat with that stick. This particular CPM Iron Wolf Saber, has been known to be illogical when something comes up that he can't full grasp. He has berated the community he is supposed to serve with oh wow, you are stupid, that can't work and I won't listen to you anymore rhetoric. Clearly, this fella has yet to reach adulthood. A small child could see the logic in what you were saying. This isn't the first time Iron Wolf Saber has acted the part of a total douche, and it won't be the last time. I for one am sick and tired of this CPM and his trolling. It's clear, that he can't grasp the whole of what people are trying to illustrate. Instead he says, "oh great, now Sink is ruining this conversation", and because you used that word, you must be talking about redoing the skill tree. Tha . Are you really that stupid. You are the one actually taking our ideas (that you can't begin to grasp) to CCP?? It's time you step the hell down buddy. You hurt most conversations you go into. Not the people but you Iron. Then you start threads ridiculing the people who have serious issues because you failed to grasp what was being said. And here you are doing it again. Well buddy, no help from me this time. I was pissed the first time, and held my cool. Now it, you clearly are not worth the time. Validating the fact that the soon to be implemented vehicle skill trees increased SP values are ridiculous, Yes hes blowing off what their saying, but hes trying to discuss JUST the respec whereas as hes already mentioned and you should be aware of the vehicle skill trees issues cant simply be fixed with a full respec and would require a full redesign of the vehicle skill tree WHICH IS WHY he is refusing to discuss it any further, while your opinions and points are valid could we please just focus on the SP reset and/or ideas for a different method? One, I don't understand why a full respec requires a full redesign of the vehicle skill tree (which is what CCP has done right?? Sp reset?? The Op was talking about vehicle respecs, and how this seems unfair to infantry. As tankers will easily be able to put their points into infantry, effectively changing their role as a full respec would. How is the tankers view off topic? What the ** are you trying to discuss? Infantry is upset, because tankers get a respec (if you were fully dedicated to vehicles, it's like a full respec!) Then on the other side, tankers are upset because the sink has been dramatically increased, something we were unaware of and are fully unprepared for. Some of us put points into infantry, but now would prefer those points spent into tanks, WHERE THEY ARE NOW NEEDED. The topic was not respecs in general, it was the upcomin 1.7 respec to tankers that this thread started out with. Who's off topic again? Nuff Said
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1810	Posted - 2013.12.01 19:48:00 - [65] - Quote daishi mk03 wrote: I don't get what you trying to say but you can spec a tank easily for 20m next patch 1.7 and you will get a respec, because you tanker and you are mad and you can also go infantry and you are Minmatar spy edit: execuse my english, its not language of my mother No I use all vehicles LAV/DS/HAV We are losing 6 vehicles in 1.7 and some skills/mods so we should have less skills but we dont The sink has been added to turrets and also a few other skills which no longer offer anything such as the CPU skill Depending on what i want 20mil may suffice for a basic user of vehicles, but i like to be able to use all vehicles and have a range of turrets to fit on them with decent if not perfect support skills so i get the most out of my vehicles If the core skills are missing then really there is no point to using that 1.7mil HAV since you will not get the best out of it Right now 20mil gives you everything including core skills, next patch it wont Next patch you may be able to access everything but you will have to cut down on something where as i can take that SP out and put it into infantry which is much cheaper SP wise and i get access to proto everything Infantry cannot go vehicles unless they save up about a years worth of SP, no respec for them
daishi mk03 BLACK-GUARD Die Fremdenlegion 443	Posted - 2013.12.01 19:49:00 - [66] - Quote There is no tanker respec .. lol Everybody gets a respec of the skills which are removed and replaced by others. Everybody can do what they want with those refunded SP. Everybody gets treated the same. To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin. The Scriptures,Book of Missions
daishi mk03 BLACK-GUARD Die Fremdenlegion 443	Posted - 2013.12.01 19:55:00 - [67] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: daishi mk03 wrote: I don't get what you trying to say but you can spec a tank easily for 20m next patch 1.7 and you will get a respec, because you tanker and you are mad and you can also go infantry and you are Minmatar spy edit: execuse my english, its not language of my mother No I use all vehicles LAV/DS/HAV We are losing 6 vehicles in 1.7 and some skills/mods so we should have less skills but we dont The sink has been added to turrets and also a few other skills which no longer offer anything such as the CPU skill Depending on what i want 20mil may suffice for a basic user of vehicles, but i like to be able to use all vehicles and have a range of turrets to fit on them with decent if not perfect support skills so i get the most out of my vehicles If the core skills are missing then really there is no point to using that 1.7mil HAV since you will not get the best out of it Right now 20mil gives you everything including core skills, next patch it wont Next patch you may be able to access everything but you will have to cut down on something where as i can take that SP out and put it into infantry which is much cheaper SP wise and i get access to proto everything Infantry cannot go vehicles unless they save up about a years worth of SP, no respec for them Vehicle requireing more SP is fine. Right now you need more than 10x more SP to spec into all infantry roles than into all vehicles. So it is good, that in the future vehicle drivers have to specialize like infantry has to. This is really unfair right now! 20m SP gives you all vehicles maxed OR a logi suit maxed. See? It's unfair now and it's fair afterwards. Infantry isn't into vehicles right now, why should they be able to go from 0 to 100 into vehicles? They are at 0 now, they will be at 0 in the future. A infantry guy who wants to spec into vehicles now will also need 20m SP for everything (=1 year of SP). Nothing changes there. I can fit you milito soma if you want to need help to need help fit you i will to fit you help you fit soma. To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin. The Scriptures,Book of Missions
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1810	Posted - 2013.12.01 20:02:00 - [68] - Quote daishi mk03 wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: daishi mk03 wrote: I don't get what you trying to say but you can spec a tank easily for 20m next patch 1.7 and you will get a respec, because you tanker and you are mad and you can also go infantry and you are Minmatar spy edit: execuse my english, its not language of my mother No I use all vehicles LAV/DS/HAV We are losing 6 vehicles in 1.7 and some skills/mods so we should have less skills but we dont The sink has been added to turrets and also a few other skills which no longer offer anything such as the CPU skill Depending on what i want 20mil may suffice for a basic user of vehicles, but i like to be able to use all vehicles and have a range of turrets to fit on them with decent if not perfect support skills so i get the most out of my vehicles If the core skills are missing then really there is no point to using that 1.7mil HAV since you will not get the best out of it Right now 20mil gives you everything including core skills, next patch it wont Next patch you may be able to access everything but you will have to cut down on something where as i can take that SP out and put it into infantry which is much cheaper SP wise and i get access to proto everything Infantry cannot go vehicles unless they save up about a years worth of SP, no respec for them Vehicle requireing more SP is fine. Right now you need more than 10x more SP to spec into all infantry roles than into all vehicles. So it is good, that in the future vehicle drivers have to specialize like infantry has to. This is really unfair right now! 20m SP gives you all vehicles maxed OR a logi suit maxed. See? It's unfair now and it's fair afterwards. Infantry isn't into vehicles right now, why should they be able to go from 0 to 100 into vehicles? They are at 0 now, they will be at 0 in the future. A infantry guy who wants to spec into vehicles now will also need 20m SP for everything (=1 year of SP). Nothing changes there. I can fit you milito soma if you want to need help to need help fit you i will to fit you help you fit soma. Wrong I can spec the core skills for infantry and have 2 proto suits with 2 proto weaopns at least for 20mil Anyways i specced into vehicles, maxed out what i needed then made secondary infantry roles Now CCP decided to change the entire tree so now im ****** either way If i get the partial respec im screwed unless i go infantry, if i want to go vehicles im worse off because i have less to spend This isnt even counting the racial vehicles/turrets/mods and pilot suits which have yet to be added
daishi mk03 BLACK-GUARD Die Fremdenlegion 443	Posted - 2013.12.01 20:07:00 - [69] - Quote 2 proto suits with 2 proto weapons and core skills is FAR away from everything. 20m SP now grants you all, ALL vehicles. I think it will be more fair in 1.7. you can skill 1 turret (usage), both available tank hulls (at once) and core skill, maybe a dropship. it's fair, trust me, trust me, it's fair, trust me. I can fit you milito somo tanker fit you help you railgun militio somo tank To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin. The Scriptures,Book of Missions
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1387	Posted - 2013.12.01 20:11:00 - [70] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: If the CPM hasn't and still are letting CCP know that the respec coming in 1.7 is completely unfair and has several problems, I urge you to tell CCP and try to get the respec changed. I summed it up in a small post here, but people have also added other problems later in that thread, so I'll just go through all the problems I can think of here as well. For starters it's completely and utter bs that CCP is giving people (vehicle pilots) the option to skill out of vehicles, but people (infantry) can't skill into them. There's several problems with this. 1. CCP is giving a certain amount of the playerbase (vehicle pilots) the freedom to do what they want with their SP, while the rest of the playerbase have to live with their choices, even though the game will be radically changed in 1.7. This gives an unfair advantage to vehicle pilots, and it's something CCP should NOT be doing. 2. As the vehicle pilots won't be forced to put the refunded SP back into vehicles, but can use it where ever they want, CCP is doing an exception to certain players in regards to the often used "choices have consequences" phrase. They give vehicle pilots the option to skill out of their chosen role, which means their choices won't have consequences, while the rest of the playerbase are forced to stick with their choices. Again, this is completely unfair. 3. I personally don't really think this is a huge problem, but it was mentioned in the thread linked above. As vehicle pilots get a respec they can then also skill into the FOTM, while the rest of the playerbase can't. Again, this is an unfair advantage to vehicle pilots. Another reason as to why a vehicle only respec is utter bs is that vehicles aren't the only thing being radically changed in 1.7. AV, and especially the Swarm Launcher is being changed so much (nerfed to the ground in my opinion) that it's completely unfair to use the "choices have consequences" phrase. As it looks like a tank will be the best AV option in 1.7 (maybe the Forge Gun as well), the dedicated AV (Swarm Launcher especially) users would likely have skilled into tanks instead. Without a respec they can't, and in this situation it's very unfair to just tell them that their choices have consequences, more so when the vehicle pilots' choices won't have consequences. In the thread linked above I also saw some vehicle pilots saying they would like their infantry SP refunded as well, so they instead could put it into vehicles. With only a refund of the SP used in the vehicle tree they can't do this. Because of these issues I urge the CPM to tell CCP to change the respec coming in 1.7. A couple of ideas as to how it can be handled instead: 1. CCP can allow the refunded vehicle SP to only be put back into vehicles. This would mean that the vehicle pilots' choices will have consequences, and it won't give them an unfair advantage over infantry. Personally I don't like this option very much as it still leaves the dedicated AV users in a bad situation and I'm not even sure it's possible to do this. 2. CCP can give everyone a full respec. This would solve all the issues I listed above, and in my opinion this is the most fair respec to happen. The game will be radically changed in 1.7 and I think it's only fair to give everyone a respec, as it's hard to tell people that their choices have conseqeunces, when these choices were made with a totally different knowledge. But you still don't get it. We found our role. We filled out our role. We went for another, cheaper role, because tanking is expensive and causes a lot of aggravation. We weren't getting the pilot suits, so there was no reason to hold on to the SP. The whole reason you don't want any of us to get a full respec is because infantry is scared to death of smart, unkillable tankers. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.

daishi mk03 BLACK-GUARD Die Fremdenlegion 443	Posted - 2013.12.01 20:17:00 - [71] - Quote He is promoting a full respec and you flame him, because you want a full respec. THE ***? To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin.* The Scriptures,Book of Missions
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1810	Posted - 2013.12.01 20:23:00 - [72] - Quote daishi mk03 wrote: 2 proto suits with 2 proto weapons and core skills is FAR away from everything. 20m SP now grants you all, ALL vehicles. I think it will be more fair in 1.7. you can skill 1 turret (usage), both available tank hulls (at once) and core skill, maybe a dropship. it's fair, trust me, trust me, it's fair, trust me. I can fit you milito somo tanker fit you help you railgun militio somo tank You say its fair Whats fair about changing it 6months later when the majority of pilots have specced out the tree to where they want it and then have now gone into a secondary role Lets just say you spec all infantry for 20mil and then they went into vehicles, but then they changed all infantry skills and made it a bigger sink but this was after you had made your choices 6months ago, forums would go into a rage I made my choice I specced out the vehicle tree and got everything i needed I finished the tree and then worked on a secondary role Now the vehicle tree needs alot more SP, ergo i need a full respec If i knew about this before i skilled my secondary like a good 6months ago i wouldnt have gone infantry at all and worked on my vehicle tree even more Partial respec means nothing, all it means is that i can go full infantry
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 249	Posted - 2013.12.01 20:25:00 - [73] - Quote daishi mk03 wrote: 2 proto suits with 2 proto weapons and core skills is FAR away from everything. 20m SP now grants you all, ALL vehicles. I think it will be more fair in 1.7. you can skill 1 turret (usage), both available tank hulls (at once) and core skill, maybe a dropship. it's fair, trust me, trust me, it's fair, trust me. I can fit you milito somo tanker fit you help you railgun militio somo tank You may get both vehicles, but when it comes to core, you need to pick shield or armor. His case, he does have a big chunk. But currently, picking one tank, then the skills to go with it, and a turret, will only cost you 10 mil. Which is about what I have in tanks. Though in 1.7, that won't be enough. So basically, I won't have a proto role anymore after 1.7. Nuff Said
daishi mk03 BLACK-GUARD Die Fremdenlegion 443	Posted - 2013.12.01 20:31:00 - [74] - Quote I wish you good luck! I hope you will get what you want! If you need help I can fit you two good militio somo yolo tank somo railgung militio tank To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin. The Scriptures,Book of Missions
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 249	Posted - 2013.12.01 20:40:00 - [75] - Quote daishi mk03 wrote: I wish you good luck! I hope you will get what you want! If you need help I can fit you two good militio somo yolo tank somo railgung militio tank Lol, not about getting what we want. Full respec's WON'T be coming out in 1.7. Discussing the ways a partial respec affects the community as a whole, is the idea I thought. Infantry and Tanks. That's how I view these sorts of debates. This isn't like playing the game, you don't win anything. Free and open discussion has no winners. Nuff Said
daishi mk03 BLACK-GUARD Die Fremdenlegion 443	Posted - 2013.12.01 20:46:00 - [76] - Quote You see, it's like in the real world. No matter which way you choose, some people will like it and some people will not. To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin. The Scriptures,Book of Missions
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 250	Posted - 2013.12.01 20:53:00 - [77] - Quote daishi mk03 wrote: You see, it's like in the real world. No matter which way you choose, some people will like it and some people will not. And it never hurts to discover why people like or dislike it. This helps with future decisions, and sometimes reveals that your current decision may not have been the best one. Nope, not everyone will like it. Never hurts to discover why though! Nuff Said
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 370	Posted - 2013.12.01 21:49:00 - [78] - Quote My vehicle sp is going right back where it belongs, in vehicles. They had to give a respect because they have changed the entire skill tree and it wouldn't translate with current skills. Even if vehicle users put their sp into flavor of the month suits they will have to live with that choice. They can't put it all back into vehicles. There will probably be a respect for infantry too when more stuff is released and skills change.
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 170	Posted - 2013.12.01 23:23:00 - [79] - Quote There's a CouncilGÇÖs Chamber channel?
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10917	Posted - 2013.12.02 00:08:00 - [80] - Quote In game? not as far as I am aware. I wouldn't be able to hang out there most of the day. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Electronics =// Unlocked

loumanchew Ametat Security Amarr Empire 151	Posted - 2013.12.02 01:55:00 - [81] - Quote I support a full respec. I also support a doubling of points spent into scouts and dropships over the past year on grounds of lack of enjoyability and unfairness over other classes as well as a few 100 million isk as a token of gratitude for flying overpriced flying coffins with no rewards. I did HTFU, now pay me. You know I'm right.
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution 1840	Posted - 2013.12.02 02:02:00 - [82] - Quote Seriously, there needs to be a full respec. This isn't about jumping into the next FoTM. -Pilots can go full infantry, yet infantry cannot. -Pilots have to use more SP to build a good Vehicle, so they would most likely need their SP that they put into infantry back to put into Vehicles (Ken mentioned this while I was squadded with him). -AV is getting drastically changed. How is it fair to allow Pilots to completely change course of their character and skills but not allow others to change theirs? P.S. Sorry if these were already mentioned When I'm depressed, I cut myself......A BIG SLICE OF CHOCOLATE CAKE!
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 257	Posted - 2013.12.02 02:06:00 - [83] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Seriously, there needs to be a full respec. This isn't about jumping into the next FoTM. -Pilots can go full infantry, yet infantry cannot. -Pilots have to use more SP to build a good Vehicle, so they would most likely need their SP that they put into infantry back to put into Vehicles (Ken mentioned this while I was squadded with him). -AV is getting drastically changed. How is it fair to allow Pilots to completely change course of their character and skills but not allow others to change theirs? P.S. Sorry if these were already mentioned Nope, you summed up the points that were made here for a full respec in 1.7, rather than the partial one to vehicles. Still, I believe the plans are set in stone, and have been for a while. Maybe we got's some content in the future. Nuff Said
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution 1843	Posted - 2013.12.02 02:09:00 - [84] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Patrick57 wrote: NEVERMIND Nope, you summed up the points that were made here for a full respec in 1.7, rather than the partial one to vehicles. Still, I believe the plans are set in stone, and have been for a while. Maybe we got's some content in the future. Dammit Now I feel so late and stupid..... If you could please edit your post so it's like I never said anything When I'm depressed, I cut myself......A BIG SLICE OF CHOCOLATE CAKE!
raex001 Eliters RUST415 41	Posted - 2013.12.02 09:00:00 - [85] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I just want to avoid the free candy addiction syndrome for the time being. Maybe when all the suits come out a free respec then. Id be pretty upset if we have a respec a month. It's either that or the refunded SP can only be spent in the same role as it came from. Otherwise CCP is playing favorites and giving certain players an advantage by letting them skill out of their chosen role etc (as listed in the OP). CCP have known for months that a vehicle respec would be unavoidable, so if they didn't want to do a full respec they should've worked out a way to only allow the refunded SP to be spent in the same role. Since they didn't, a full respec is the only option. WWWHHAAATTTT???? Are u crazy????? i've 15KK sp in vehicle and u think that i use my sp for the vehicle that i don't like it???? absolutely no!!! i want back my sp for infantry??? it's normal!!! for me the respec for vehicle is correct and it's an error a respec for everyone.....
Dalmont Legrand Nemesis Ad Astra RUST415 99	Posted - 2013.12.02 14:34:00 - [86] - Quote raex001 wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I just want to avoid the free candy addiction syndrome for the time being. Maybe when all the suits come out a free respec then. Id be pretty upset if we have a respec a month. It's either that or the refunded SP can only be spent in the same role as it came from. Otherwise CCP is playing favorites and giving certain players an advantage by letting them skill out of their chosen role etc (as listed in the OP). CCP have known for months that a vehicle respec would be unavoidable, so if they didn't want to do a full respec they should've worked out a way to only allow the refunded SP to be spent in the same role. Since they didn't, a full respec is the only option. WWWHHAAATTTT???? Are u crazy????? i've 15KK sp in vehicle and u think that i use my sp for the vehicle that i don't like it???? absolutely no!!! i want back my sp for infantry??? it's normal!!! for me the respec for vehicle is correct and it's an error a respec for everyone..... Raex be nice boy and relax. The respec is going to happen. Justice is what everyone desires. Of something nothing is everything.
Freshticles DIOS EX. Top Men. 301	Posted - 2013.12.02 15:28:00 - [87] - Quote I'm afraid CCP's logic is flawed on this one. The route chosen does exactly the opposite of what they're trying to avoid. Level 9001 Forum Wizard
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1367	Posted - 2013.12.02 17:27:00 - [88] - Quote @CPM. Do you think it's possible to get some answers as to why we got a (optional) full respec for these skill tree changes back in May, but we can't get one now? Tbh I fail to see how the changes back in May warranted a full respec when the 1.7 changes don't. They can also do an optional full respec now if they don't like giving everyone a full respec automatically. This means that everyone's vehicle skills will be refunded automatically, but if people would rather get a full respec they can opt in on that by writing to support like back in May. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers!
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 375	Posted - 2013.12.02 18:21:00 - [89] - Quote Heavy Salvo wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Honestly you would be better off getting no respec. I reason this because......you should go by the logic "if you can use it now, you should still be able to use it after patch". I never understood why you guys want a respec when you could potentially get free SP. CCP has changed the skill tree in EVE many times, and they always end up giving away millions of free skill points to players. If you get a respec, you give away all those potential skill points. You say the grind will be longer......THAN WHY are you advocating for a respec. Lastly, respec should be monetized the same as boosters. You plug it into a skill you dont want and it lasts for however long you pay for it. Think of it as a negative skill boosters that takes the skill points out of a skill and allocates it back into your pool at the same rate you earn passive SP. I say montoize because there will always be a push and pull of FOTM and the next nerf, it mixes up game play and thats just how the game remains fresh. "Potentially get free SP." I understand you're saying this goes on in EVE however speaking for a majority of the people I play with on DUST ....what is considered common place there generally has little to no bearing in DUST, not saying I don't value you're point but I have not seen it hinted at or said that in place of a respec we could be given "free sp" which could potentially be a good alternative but a few questions come to mind seeing as how EVE sp accumulation works and DUST sp accumulation works I cant really wrap my head around how getting free SP in eve works and how it could be implemented into DUST. I will answer each point below Heavy Salvo wrote: 1. isn't SP just a value tacked onto your character (increasing values the higher the skill your training) that when added up add to the value of your character should you ever choose to sell it and also forces you to purchase higher quality clones to add another element of risk to the game, being the loss of trained skills if you do not have a high enough quality clone to retain your total SP? You are somewhat correct. However, if those skills are wasted your character still isnt going to be worth as much as a dedicated character that has a purpose. "wasted skill points" being a major factor here. If someone has wasted 5mil sp into vehicles, basically unlocking stuff but not really providing much benefit those 1mil SP could have been used better somewhere else. Heavy Salvo wrote: 2. if the latter is true then how does giving "free sp" to EVE players translate to DUST, I couldn't see giving mercs millions of SP to mercs a good thing(the SP events aside), only worsening the gap between newer players and vets. (raising the bar for vets in pc making it more difficult for newer players to reach the total SP they need for a corp to feel comfortable putting them into a pc) Giving free SP to players would only be into the skills they already have trained. So for example if it takes 5 million sp currently to get an advanced blaster turret and in the new 1.7 system it takes 8 million sp. The merc would get 3 million extra SP, but it would already be allocated into the skills. This would just "inflate" the sp of the character, but give them no more advantage than what they had earlier. However, this raises the barrier of entry for new folks. But that is happening regardless with the new tree. This also gives consequence to your actions. Heavy Salvo wrote: 3.I agree there will and always has been a certain magnetism to FOTM whether in the endgame aspect (PC) or simply wanting to PUB stomp more efficiently and giving respecs to people with 10s of millions of SP only to allow us to better allocate it and enhance our already favorite builds is unfair to those people with just the minimum SP required to get the gear they need to compete who even after a respec must either pull away from the endgame scene to put points into what they consider fun and grind away for months until they have it perfected enough to compete with the latest FOTM or put everything they have into the newest FOTM and deal with the hate that goes hand in hand with it. 3(Addendum). and tbh I wanted to make a point of how a respec would benefit people who invested SP into the new content simply to have something new to use but this falls under the "For" section IWS brought up earlier that being "players who are bored with their current fits." but it seems to me a better idea would be to add another group to that section, those being the competitive scene (endgame,pc, whatever.) vehicle users who (may not have happened to some but I had first hand experience with this) were urged by their corpmates and CEOs/directors to invest points into an infantry suit in order to cut costs in PC and add more versatility to their repertoire Not to go terribly off topic but point 3 is just going to show how bad the current skill tree is designed. It shouldnt take a month to skill into a new weapon or suit. So I will leave it at that. Giving people a respec just to keep the game "fresh" is a poor way of managing that problem. TL;DR, the reason for the philosophy "if you can use it now, you can use it after patch" is because it keeps the game stable. There will always be changes to weapon systems and the nerf bat will always be looming. Giving mercs the option of removing all their SP quickly from a nerfed item does nothing but break the game. Just because someone has 50million sp shouldn't make them any more capable in battle, just more versatile. Right now SP is king, cause the grind is immense. PHI Recruitment or PHIsh Tank in game Twitch
Morathi III Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2013.12.02 18:36:00 - [90] - Quote Hope they never give a full respec, you wanted to use Call logi, TAC ar, flaylock, MD... Fine you used the flavour of the month... Now stay with it

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10958	Posted - 2013.12.02 19:55:00 - [91] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: @CPM. Do you think it's possible to get some answers as to why we got a (optional) full respec for these skill tree changes back in May, but we can't get one now? Tbh I fail to see how the changes back in May warranted a full respec when the 1.7 changes don't. They can also do an optional full respec now if they don't like giving everyone a full respec automatically. This means that everyone's vehicle skills will be refunded automatically, but if people would rather get a full respec they can opt in on that by writing to support like back in May. I know for fact the one in may was a total 2.0 sort of deal in terms of the tree which is probably why we got it then. This one we're chopping off a branch and replacing it. A strength in 2.0 but In my opinion a creative weakness. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Electronics =// Unlocked
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1368	Posted - 2013.12.02 20:04:00 - [92] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I know for fact the one in may was a total 2.0 sort of deal in terms of the tree which is probably why we got it then. This one we're chopping off a branch and replacing it. A strength in 2.0 but In my opinion a creative weakness. No. The skill tree was heavily redesigned for Uprising which lead to a full respec for everyone. A few weeks later they made the minor adjustments I linked in my post before, and because of those adjustments they offered an optional full respec to everyone. Now the skill tree is being redesigned again, or at least a part of it is and considering it's much larger changes than those that warranted that optional respec in May, I just don't understand why there's no (optional) full respec now. Even more so when you look at all the issues in the OP. So my question remains, why don't the 1.7 changes warrant a full respec when the minor changes in May did? Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers!
daishi mk03 BLACK-GUARD Die Fremdenlegion 459	Posted - 2013.12.02 20:06:00 - [93] - Quote They majority of dust players doesn't want a respec of any kind. So a partial respec is more than we could ever dream of. To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin. The Scriptures,Book of Missions
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1368	Posted - 2013.12.02 20:12:00 - [94] - Quote daishi mk03 wrote: They majority of dust players doesn't want a respec of any kind. So a partial respec is more than we could ever dream of. Made up statistics are always fun to see. However you're likely right, but that is likely only because a lot of the players for respecs have been pushed away from the game. If you would read the last few posts in this thread though, you will see that I suggested doing an optional full respec so that the players not wanting a respec don't get one. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers!
daishi mk03 BLACK-GUARD Die Fremdenlegion 459	Posted - 2013.12.02 20:24:00 - [95] - Quote It's not like players don't want a respec for themself .. they don't want a respec for anyone. e.g. there is this flaylock guy, killing you day after day, then flaylock gets nerfed because it was bs and now this guy should not get the chance to spec into the next bs. That's why those people don't want a respec. They don't want any kind of respec. What I don't understand is what's so bad about no more respec. It's not like you are limited ... you can skill up everything. You don't need a respec, just put your future SP into the skill you want to have. This statistic is not made up, however, only people who want a respec whargl about it every day ... the others are happy how it is and don't whargl all day. To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin. The Scriptures,Book of Missions
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1368	Posted - 2013.12.02 20:34:00 - [96] - Quote daishi mk03 wrote: It's not like players don't want a respec for themself .. they don't want a respec for anyone. e.g. there is this flaylock guy, killing you day after day, then flaylock gets nerfed because it was bs and now this guy should not get the chance to spec into the next bs. That's why those people don't want a respec. They don't want any kind of respec. That's all good because this thread has nothing to do with the usual arguments for or against respecs in general. This thread is about unfair treatment and how a full respec is only fair and reasonable. Pilots can skill out of vehicles, but infantry can't skill into vehicles. That's unfair treatment that will be solved with a full respec. I don't care if you're against respecs in general, it's unfair treatment that should NOT be happening. CCP decided to change (part of) the skill tree and thus have to give a full respec (optional or not), otherwise they're playing favorites and treating the rest of their players like **. They were aware of this last time, so I'm not quite sure what's the hold up this time. Players can still be against respecs in general, I have no problem with that, but CCP is giving some players (pilots) a full respec, so they have to give everyone else the same treatment. daishi mk03 wrote:** This statistic is not made up, however, only people who want a respec whargl about it every day ... the others are happy how it is and don't whargl all day. It is made up. If it isn't link your source. I don't care though. It's not relevant to the discussion anyway. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers!
daishi mk03 BLACK-GUARD Die Fremdenlegion 460	Posted - 2013.12.02 20:38:00 - [97] - Quote CCP is not giving some players (pilots) a full respec. They refund SP spent into certain skills for all players. A pilot without SP into vehicles will get nothing. An infantry man with 2m SP into vehicles will get 2m SP, an infantry guy with 20m SP into vehicles will get 20m SP, a pilot with 5m SP into vehicles will get 5m SP. To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin. The Scriptures,Book of Missions
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1368	Posted - 2013.12.02 20:44:00 - [98] - Quote daishi mk03 wrote: CCP is not giving some players (pilots) a full respec. They refund SP spent into certain skills for all players. A pilot without SP into vehicles will get nothing. An infantry man with 2m SP into vehicles will get 2m SP, an infantry guy with 20m SP into vehicles will get 20m SP, a pilot with 5m SP into vehicles will get 5m SP. Yes, and that is the problem. Player A with 10 million SP in vehicles can then put those 10 million SP into infantry (and thus skill out of vehicles). Player B with 10 million SP in infantry can't take that SP and put it into vehicles (and thus skill into vehicles). That is the problem CCP should be fixing by giving everyone the same treatment (a full respec). Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers!
daishi mk03 BLACK-GUARD Die Fremdenlegion 460	Posted - 2013.12.02 20:56:00 - [99] - Quote A full respec for everybody is not the same treatment for everybody, following the same arguments you field. The vet will be able to reallocate 30m SP. The new player will be able to reallocate his 1m SP. Not fair. To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin. The Scriptures,Book of Missions
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1368	Posted - 2013.12.02 20:59:00 - [100] - Quote daishi mk03 wrote: A full respec for everybody is not the same treatment for everybody, following the same arguments you field. The vet will be able to reallocate 30m SP. The new player will be able to reallocate his 1m SP. Not fair. Facepalm. I'm not even going to take this debate as it's utterly pointless. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers!

Karl Marx II Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 209	Posted - 2013.12.02 21:29:00 - [101] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: My vehicle sp is going right back where it belongs, in vehicles. They had to give a respect because they have changed the entire skill tree and it wouldn't translate with current skills. Even if vehicle users put their sp into flavor of the month suits they will have to live with that choice. They can't put it all back into vehicles. There will probably be a respect for infantry too when more stuff is released and skills change. They are adding the rest off the racial AR variants and Infantry aren;t getting a respec .. why would CCP suddenly give infantry a respec when they add the racial variants of scout suits .. or heavy suits .. or heavy weapons ... Swarm Launchers are being completely reworked yet no respec for them either ... Every single argument on this thread points to a partial respec being a terrible idea, if vehicle users aren't restricted to putting that SP back into vehicles only then it's wrong and everyone should be given a full respec My Theme
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution 1860	Posted - 2013.12.02 23:03:00 - [102] - Quote daishi mk03 wrote: It's not like players don't want a respec for themself .. they don't want a respec for anyone. e.g. there is this flaylock guy, killing you day after day, then flaylock gets nerfed because it was bs and now this guy should not get the chance to spec into the next bs. That's why those people don't want a respec. They don't want any kind of respec. What I don't understand is what's so bad about no more respec. It's not like you are limited ... you can skill up everything. You don't need a respec, just put your future SP into the skill you want to have. This statistic is not made up, however, only people who want a respec whargl about it every day ... the others are happy how it is and don't whargl all day. So, if everyone has their SP reallocated, they could spec into the FoTM themselves. I see no problem if they can spec into it just as well as the people they're complaining about can. What you're saying is that people whine because they don't want to keep getting killed. And if you can skill up everything, then why are people worried about others skilling into the next FoTM if they could skill into it as well without a respec? So many holes.... When I'm depressed, I cut myself......A BIG SLICE OF CHOCOLATE CAKE!
Terra Thesis HDYLTA Defiant Legacy 370	Posted - 2013.12.03 00:24:00 - [103] - Quote i won't go as far as to say i DESERRRRRRRRRVE a respec but I'm a minmatar player and I bought into the gallente AR because that was the only game in town at the time. i would be super happy to move that into the new minnie rifle. if i don't get to, i guess that's ok. i'll just have to wait a bit longer for proficiency. i know CCP doesn't want to give out too many respecs because choices are more meaningful when you have to commit to them, but... i didn't really have a choice back then. HDYLTA - Freedom Delivered
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 377	Posted - 2013.12.03 15:39:00 - [104] - Quote Karl Marx II wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: My vehicle sp is going right back where it belongs, in vehicles. They had to give a respect because they have changed the entire skill tree and it wouldn't translate with current skills. Even if vehicle users put their sp into flavor of the month suits they will have to live with that choice. They can't put it all back into vehicles. There will probably be a respect for infantry too when more stuff is released and skills change. They are adding the rest off the racial AR variants and Infantry aren;t getting a respec .. why would CCP suddenly give infantry a respec when they add the racial variants of scout suits .. or heavy suits .. or heavy weapons ... Swarm Launchers are being completely reworked yet no respec for them either ... Every single argument on this thread points to a partial respec being a terrible idea, if vehicle users aren't restricted to putting that SP back into vehicles only then it's wrong and everyone should be given a full respec There is a difference between adding new skills and creating an entirely different skill tree. Every single skill in the vehicle tree has changed. So skills people already have SP into has changed. Thats the difference. CCP will continue to add new skills, we shouldnt be getting a respec every time they introduce a new set of skills or racial variants, thats just absurd. The amount of SP is also changing in each skill, so thats what I feel is the majority of the reason for a SP reset on them. Which is exactly why I advocate for no SP respec on vehicle related skills. Pilots would be waaaay better off without a reset. The only vehicle users who want a reset are those getting out of vehicles. PHI Recruitment or PHIsh Tank in game Twitch
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 265	Posted - 2013.12.03 18:18:00 - [105] - Quote Its such a shame. DUST 514 is still in alpha/beta stage considering so many things. And a lot of SP has been wasted over the past months since "official" release. Seeing how CCP is continuing to treat the game and dwindling playerbase they are soon at their goal: DUST to DUST.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 2146	Posted - 2013.12.04 04:56:00 - [106] - Quote No reason why we don't get a respec......although, makes no difference to me as I will put my sp right back to where they are now anyway. weRideNDie2getha since 2010
Rifter7 Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 295	Posted - 2013.12.04 19:57:00 - [107] - Quote "choices have consequences".. yeah okay EVERY CHOICE IS THE WRONG ONE IN BETA514 like playing the god damned lottery.. we need some consistency if we're going to be able to make choices. dont blame the players for this glitchforce beta. seriously this is this game in a nutshell person 1: yeah hey i want a bicycle. person 2:sure here you go ..rethinks it... actually we're taking the front wheel. its a unicycle now, cool right? person 1: wtf is this? person 2: CHOICES HAS CONSEQUENSSSE
daishi mk03 BLACK-GUARD Die Fremdenlegion 479	Posted - 2013.12.04 20:48:00 - [108] - Quote Rifter7 wrote: "choices have consequences".. yeah okay EVERY CHOICE IS THE WRONG ONE IN BETA514 like playing the god damned lottery.. we need some consistency if we're going to be able to make choices. dont blame the players for this glitchforce beta. seriously this is this game in a nutshell person 1: yeah hey i want a bicycle. person 2:sure here you go ..rethinks it... actually we're taking the front wheel. its a unicycle now, cool right? person 1: wtf is this? person 2: CHOICES HAS CONSEQUENSSSE I laughed, +1! To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin. The Scriptures,Book of Missions
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 785	Posted - 2013.12.04 21:06:00 - [109] - Quote Rifter7 wrote: "choices have consequences".. yeah okay EVERY CHOICE IS THE WRONG ONE IN BETA514 like playing the god damned lottery.. we need some consistency if we're going to be able to make choices. dont blame the players for this glitchforce beta. seriously this is this game in a nutshell person 1: yeah hey i want a bicycle. person 2:sure here you go ..rethinks it... actually we're taking the front wheel. its a unicycle now, cool right? person 1: wtf is this? person 2: CHOICES HAS CONSEQUENSSSE So true. KDR > ALL ME > KDR ME > ALL
Dalmont Legrand Nemesis Ad Astra RUST415 108	Posted - 2013.12.05 15:00:00 - [110] - Quote Rifter7 wrote: "choices have consequences".. yeah okay EVERY CHOICE IS THE WRONG ONE IN BETA514 like playing the god damned lottery.. we need some consistency if we're going to be able to make choices. dont blame the players for this glitchforce beta. seriously this is this game in a nutshell person 1: yeah hey i want a bicycle. person 2:sure here you go ..rethinks it... actually we're taking the front wheel. its a unicycle now, cool right? person 1: wtf is this? person 2: CHOICES HAS CONSEQUENSSSE Person 1: Are you kidding me? Person 2: HTFU kid. Of something nothing is everything.

Karl Marx II Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 320	Posted - 2013.12.06 05:17:00 - [111] - Quote Feedback please CPM's ... under a week to go and nothing ... do your dam job My Theme
Faunher The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 13	Posted - 2013.12.07 21:53:00 - [112] - Quote In my opinion, if there is a new feature being added in there should always be a partial sp refund for the skills similar to the new content being added (such as AR respec for new racial rifles). In the case of an entire skill tree revamp, a full SP respec is necessary. The FOTM argument can be made, but you should also keep in mind that some people made their choice of spec due to a lack of any other choices. I believe the vehicle respec is just, but a light weapon respec would be as well since racial variants are being introduced, and to a lesser degree, the AV nerf.
mojo blaze Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.12.09 17:53:00 - [113] - Quote Been reading the forums ( more than playing really) and it hit me , call it an epiphany. It's been right in my face but I just couldn't quite place it and than like a nerfed sniper shot ( well 4-5 to get a kill , but never mind that) I realized why these forums are full of bitching and suggestions and calls for respec... It is you dear player that needs to respec, it is you that needs to adjust to DUST . Say it out loud, it's ok you're alone say the words....made in china. Taste them, let it roll of your tongue, think walmart. The rough edges like getting stuck on a stairs, hit detection that's not all there, the excuses that don't quite make sense , as in war academy and it's many many different incarnations . Bought AUR got a new shiny toy... now out of stock now nerfed now a different color not as advertised? Do you see it? Suddenly futuristic weapons with iron sights make sense, bullets that drop off after a 100 yards are expected, not really being able to control that fuc..ked flying tube of a transport is very reasonable even the color palate of DUST can be explained.. they used lead in the color scheme. On paper this game should have been pretty close to a winner, it certainly got me playing, heck I even paid for stuff ...long ago. When you can say the words, when you can understand what they mean you will have the ultimate respec, enlightenment . See, now are you not impressed with DUST 514? aww crap just had another thought... what if we're all playing the knock off version?
calvin b SCAVENGER'S DAUGHTER 1160	Posted - 2013.12.11 04:18:00 - [114] - Quote Please I would love a respec. I want out of my heavy and HMG and several other areas I would love to critique. If not I will have to spend at least another 3 months of grinding to get the SP needed. Please we need a respec, make it for 1.8 and make us happy. The evil hidden in the name
endezeichen grimm Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.12.11 23:44:00 - [115] - Quote I would also like the skills to be reset so I can apply my SP better. I have wasted to much SP because of how confusing the whole skill trees are
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 491	Posted - 2013.12.15 21:40:00 - [116] - Quote Rifter7 wrote: "choices have consequences".. yeah okay EVERY CHOICE IS THE WRONG ONE IN BETA514 like playing the god damned lottery.. we need some consistency if we're going to be able to make choices. dont blame the players for this glitchforce beta. seriously this is this game in a nutshell person 1: yeah hey i want a bicycle. person 2:sure here you go ..rethinks it... actually we're taking the front wheel. its a unicycle now, cool right? person 1: wtf is this? person 2: CHOICES HAS CONSEQUENSSSE Perfect analogy for the current situation!
Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven 138	Posted - 2013.12.17 17:26:00 - [117] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: For Players are bored with their current fits. Some have made mistakes Players are feeling left out because they may have made the mistake of speccing into infantry when vehicles was their real calling. Against Free Candy Syndrome - the idea of a free respec at the time of anything gets nerfed, this behavior was well established back in beta and there are plenty of people who are very hard at letting go. Future Prospects - In combination with FCS this will hurt any potential to monetize the and automate the system if it ever gets developed on because it was something offered regularly for free and now has to be paid for. Buy 1 get 2 free is now buy 1 get one 1 free type of backlash. Notation See how 0 of these points have to do with the horrible tree design? @Iron Wolf.... In regards to your For and Against responses, I understand your concerns and warrant them as valid (I know you were waiting for my approval) but here's what I still can't understand. You speak of Free Candy Syndrome and that any time something gets nerfed people will QQ and continuously ask for a respec. You are right, but I feel like a lot of people are getting the wool pulled over their eyes with this response. This free candy is supposed to be in the form of a balanced FPSMMO, NOT in beta. Yet every time a patch comes out there are DRASTIC balance issues and nerfs that completely change a given weapon/module/suit etc, many times for MONTHS (Heavies, scouts, AA, TTK, etc, etc...) People spec into what they know works, CCP does a HORRIBLE job communicating nerfs/buffs/changes, yet once they swing that nerf bat the playerbase is the one left suffering from SP sinks. Refer to Swarm Launchers in 1.7. Prior to this build they were legitimate AV, now they can barely burn an LAV. We're talking 4 months they were useful and "functioning as intended" then with about 20 days notice we are told "ps swarms are getting nerfed, tanks will be OP, any SP you have in swarms is now useless and if you have a problem with it, go **** yourself then continue to play this game". At the rate that the Devs change this game and its functionality, respecs have to become an option and have to be available as long as they are tweaking(overhauling) game mechanics. Their current model of live with the decisions we make for you is the crux of the playerbase issue. FOtM is not a playerbase issue, its a CCP issue. FFS these are the same idiots that had tanks ramping across the map on day 1 of 1.7. Why is there a FOTM? Because CCP doesn't know what they're doing yet, we get it guys, and we've stuck with you through all of this bullshit. All we are asking is that while you are changing the game, give your players a chance to adapt to the environment you've created. If everyone can respec 3x a year then NO ONE will have a place to complain about making a mistake with SP. It truly doesn't change the game at the top or bottom level. In fact, multiple respecs may make PC much more competitive as if your corp has 20 slayers and 3 logis, some slayers can go tank for an offensive and switch back when needed.


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