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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10958
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Posted - 2013.12.02 19:55:00 -
[91] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:@CPM. Do you think it's possible to get some answers as to why we got a (optional) full respec for these skill tree changes back in May, but we can't get one now? Tbh I fail to see how the changes back in May warranted a full respec when the 1.7 changes don't. They can also do an optional full respec now if they don't like giving everyone a full respec automatically. This means that everyone's vehicle skills will be refunded automatically, but if people would rather get a full respec they can opt in on that by writing to support like back in May.
I know for fact the one in may was a total 2.0 sort of deal in terms of the tree which is probably why we got it then. This one we're chopping off a branch and replacing it. A strength in 2.0 but In my opinion a creative weakness.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Electronics =// Unlocked
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Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1368
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Posted - 2013.12.02 20:04:00 -
[92] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I know for fact the one in may was a total 2.0 sort of deal in terms of the tree which is probably why we got it then. This one we're chopping off a branch and replacing it. A strength in 2.0 but In my opinion a creative weakness.
No. The skill tree was heavily redesigned for Uprising which lead to a full respec for everyone. A few weeks later they made the minor adjustments I linked in my post before, and because of those adjustments they offered an optional full respec to everyone.
Now the skill tree is being redesigned again, or at least a part of it is and considering it's much larger changes than those that warranted that optional respec in May, I just don't understand why there's no (optional) full respec now. Even more so when you look at all the issues in the OP.
So my question remains, why don't the 1.7 changes warrant a full respec when the minor changes in May did?
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
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daishi mk03
BLACK-GUARD
Die Fremdenlegion
459
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Posted - 2013.12.02 20:06:00 -
[93] - Quote
They majority of dust players doesn't want a respec of any kind.
So a partial respec is more than we could ever dream of.
To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin.
The Scriptures,Book of Missions
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Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1368
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Posted - 2013.12.02 20:12:00 -
[94] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:They majority of dust players doesn't want a respec of any kind.
So a partial respec is more than we could ever dream of.
Made up statistics are always fun to see.
However you're likely right, but that is likely only because a lot of the players for respecs have been pushed away from the game.
If you would read the last few posts in this thread though, you will see that I suggested doing an optional full respec so that the players not wanting a respec don't get one.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
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daishi mk03
BLACK-GUARD
Die Fremdenlegion
459
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Posted - 2013.12.02 20:24:00 -
[95] - Quote
It's not like players don't want a respec for themself .. they don't want a respec for anyone. e.g. there is this flaylock guy, killing you day after day, then flaylock gets nerfed because it was b*s* and now this guy should not get the chance to spec into the next b*s*. That's why those people don't want a respec. They don't want any kind of respec.
What I don't understand is what's so bad about no more respec. It's not like you are limited ... you can skill up everything. You don't need a respec, just put your future SP into the skill you want to have.
This statistic is not made up, however, only people who want a respec whargl about it every day ... the others are happy how it is and don't whargl all day.
To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin.
The Scriptures,Book of Missions
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Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1368
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Posted - 2013.12.02 20:34:00 -
[96] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:It's not like players don't want a respec for themself .. they don't want a respec for anyone. e.g. there is this flaylock guy, killing you day after day, then flaylock gets nerfed because it was b*s* and now this guy should not get the chance to spec into the next b*s*. That's why those people don't want a respec. They don't want any kind of respec.
That's all good because this thread has nothing to do with the usual arguments for or against respecs in general. This thread is about unfair treatment and how a full respec is only fair and reasonable.
Pilots can skill out of vehicles, but infantry can't skill into vehicles. That's unfair treatment that will be solved with a full respec. I don't care if you're against respecs in general, it's unfair treatment that should NOT be happening. CCP decided to change (part of) the skill tree and thus have to give a full respec (optional or not), otherwise they're playing favorites and treating the rest of their players like ****.
They were aware of this last time, so I'm not quite sure what's the hold up this time.
Players can still be against respecs in general, I have no problem with that, but CCP is giving some players (pilots) a full respec, so they have to give everyone else the same treatment.
daishi mk03 wrote:This statistic is not made up, however, only people who want a respec whargl about it every day ... the others are happy how it is and don't whargl all day.
It is made up. If it isn't link your source.
I don't care though. It's not relevant to the discussion anyway.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
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daishi mk03
BLACK-GUARD
Die Fremdenlegion
460
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Posted - 2013.12.02 20:38:00 -
[97] - Quote
CCP is not giving some players (pilots) a full respec. They refund SP spent into certain skills for all players.
A pilot without SP into vehicles will get nothing. An infantry man with 2m SP into vehicles will get 2m SP, an infantry guy with 20m SP into vehicles will get 20m SP, a pilot with 5m SP into vehicles will get 5m SP.
To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin.
The Scriptures,Book of Missions
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Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1368
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Posted - 2013.12.02 20:44:00 -
[98] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:CCP is not giving some players (pilots) a full respec. They refund SP spent into certain skills for all players.
A pilot without SP into vehicles will get nothing. An infantry man with 2m SP into vehicles will get 2m SP, an infantry guy with 20m SP into vehicles will get 20m SP, a pilot with 5m SP into vehicles will get 5m SP.
Yes, and that is the problem.
Player A with 10 million SP in vehicles can then put those 10 million SP into infantry (and thus skill out of vehicles).
Player B with 10 million SP in infantry can't take that SP and put it into vehicles (and thus skill into vehicles).
That is the problem CCP should be fixing by giving everyone the same treatment (a full respec).
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
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daishi mk03
BLACK-GUARD
Die Fremdenlegion
460
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Posted - 2013.12.02 20:56:00 -
[99] - Quote
A full respec for everybody is not the same treatment for everybody, following the same arguments you field.
The vet will be able to reallocate 30m SP.
The new player will be able to reallocate his 1m SP.
Not fair.
To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin.
The Scriptures,Book of Missions
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Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1368
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Posted - 2013.12.02 20:59:00 -
[100] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:A full respec for everybody is not the same treatment for everybody, following the same arguments you field.
The vet will be able to reallocate 30m SP.
The new player will be able to reallocate his 1m SP.
Not fair.
Facepalm.
I'm not even going to take this debate as it's utterly pointless.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
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Karl Marx II
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
209
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Posted - 2013.12.02 21:29:00 -
[101] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:My vehicle sp is going right back where it belongs, in vehicles. They had to give a respect because they have changed the entire skill tree and it wouldn't translate with current skills.
Even if vehicle users put their sp into flavor of the month suits they will have to live with that choice. They can't put it all back into vehicles. There will probably be a respect for infantry too when more stuff is released and skills change.
They are adding the rest off the racial AR variants and Infantry aren;t getting a respec .. why would CCP suddenly give infantry a respec when they add the racial variants of scout suits .. or heavy suits .. or heavy weapons ... Swarm Launchers are being completely reworked yet no respec for them either ...
Every single argument on this thread points to a partial respec being a terrible idea, if vehicle users aren't restricted to putting that SP back into vehicles only then it's wrong and everyone should be given a full respec
My Theme
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Patrick57
Fatal Absolution
1860
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Posted - 2013.12.02 23:03:00 -
[102] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:It's not like players don't want a respec for themself .. they don't want a respec for anyone. e.g. there is this flaylock guy, killing you day after day, then flaylock gets nerfed because it was b*s* and now this guy should not get the chance to spec into the next b*s*. That's why those people don't want a respec. They don't want any kind of respec.
What I don't understand is what's so bad about no more respec. It's not like you are limited ... you can skill up everything. You don't need a respec, just put your future SP into the skill you want to have.
This statistic is not made up, however, only people who want a respec whargl about it every day ... the others are happy how it is and don't whargl all day.
So, if everyone has their SP reallocated, they could spec into the FoTM themselves. I see no problem if they can spec into it just as well as the people they're complaining about can.
What you're saying is that people whine because they don't want to keep getting killed.
And if you can skill up everything, then why are people worried about others skilling into the next FoTM if they could skill into it as well without a respec?
So many holes....
When I'm depressed, I cut myself......A BIG SLICE OF CHOCOLATE CAKE!
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Terra Thesis
HDYLTA
Defiant Legacy
370
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Posted - 2013.12.03 00:24:00 -
[103] - Quote
i won't go as far as to say i DESERRRRRRRRRVE a respec but I'm a minmatar player and I bought into the gallente AR because that was the only game in town at the time. i would be super happy to move that into the new minnie rifle. if i don't get to, i guess that's ok. i'll just have to wait a bit longer for proficiency.
i know CCP doesn't want to give out too many respecs because choices are more meaningful when you have to commit to them, but... i didn't really have a choice back then.
HDYLTA - Freedom Delivered
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IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
377
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Posted - 2013.12.03 15:39:00 -
[104] - Quote
Karl Marx II wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:My vehicle sp is going right back where it belongs, in vehicles. They had to give a respect because they have changed the entire skill tree and it wouldn't translate with current skills.
Even if vehicle users put their sp into flavor of the month suits they will have to live with that choice. They can't put it all back into vehicles. There will probably be a respect for infantry too when more stuff is released and skills change. They are adding the rest off the racial AR variants and Infantry aren;t getting a respec .. why would CCP suddenly give infantry a respec when they add the racial variants of scout suits .. or heavy suits .. or heavy weapons ... Swarm Launchers are being completely reworked yet no respec for them either ... Every single argument on this thread points to a partial respec being a terrible idea, if vehicle users aren't restricted to putting that SP back into vehicles only then it's wrong and everyone should be given a full respec
There is a difference between adding new skills and creating an entirely different skill tree. Every single skill in the vehicle tree has changed. So skills people already have SP into has changed. Thats the difference. CCP will continue to add new skills, we shouldnt be getting a respec every time they introduce a new set of skills or racial variants, thats just absurd.
The amount of SP is also changing in each skill, so thats what I feel is the majority of the reason for a SP reset on them. Which is exactly why I advocate for no SP respec on vehicle related skills. Pilots would be waaaay better off without a reset. The only vehicle users who want a reset are those getting out of vehicles.
PHI Recruitment
or PHIsh Tank in game
Twitch
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Jungian
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
265
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Posted - 2013.12.03 18:18:00 -
[105] - Quote
Its such a shame. DUST 514 is still in alpha/beta stage considering so many things. And a lot of SP has been wasted over the past months since "official" release. Seeing how CCP is continuing to treat the game and dwindling playerbase they are soon at their goal: DUST to DUST. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
2146
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Posted - 2013.12.04 04:56:00 -
[106] - Quote
No reason why we don't get a respec......although, makes no difference to me as I will put my sp right back to where they are now anyway.
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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Rifter7
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
295
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Posted - 2013.12.04 19:57:00 -
[107] - Quote
"choices have consequences".. yeah okay EVERY CHOICE IS THE WRONG ONE IN BETA514
like playing the god damned lottery.. we need some consistency if we're going to be able to make choices. dont blame the players for this glitchforce beta.
seriously this is this game in a nutshell
person 1: yeah hey i want a bicycle.
person 2:sure here you go
..rethinks it...
actually we're taking the front wheel. its a unicycle now, cool right?
person 1: wtf is this?
person 2: CHOICES HAS CONSEQUENSSSE
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daishi mk03
BLACK-GUARD
Die Fremdenlegion
479
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Posted - 2013.12.04 20:48:00 -
[108] - Quote
Rifter7 wrote:"choices have consequences".. yeah okay EVERY CHOICE IS THE WRONG ONE IN BETA514
like playing the god damned lottery.. we need some consistency if we're going to be able to make choices. dont blame the players for this glitchforce beta.
seriously this is this game in a nutshell
person 1: yeah hey i want a bicycle.
person 2:sure here you go
..rethinks it...
actually we're taking the front wheel. its a unicycle now, cool right?
person 1: wtf is this?
person 2: CHOICES HAS CONSEQUENSSSE
I laughed, +1!
To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin.
The Scriptures,Book of Missions
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
785
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Posted - 2013.12.04 21:06:00 -
[109] - Quote
Rifter7 wrote:"choices have consequences".. yeah okay EVERY CHOICE IS THE WRONG ONE IN BETA514
like playing the god damned lottery.. we need some consistency if we're going to be able to make choices. dont blame the players for this glitchforce beta.
seriously this is this game in a nutshell
person 1: yeah hey i want a bicycle.
person 2:sure here you go
..rethinks it...
actually we're taking the front wheel. its a unicycle now, cool right?
person 1: wtf is this?
person 2: CHOICES HAS CONSEQUENSSSE
So true.
KDR > ALL
ME > KDR
ME > ALL
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Dalmont Legrand
Nemesis Ad Astra
RUST415
108
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Posted - 2013.12.05 15:00:00 -
[110] - Quote
Rifter7 wrote:"choices have consequences".. yeah okay EVERY CHOICE IS THE WRONG ONE IN BETA514
like playing the god damned lottery.. we need some consistency if we're going to be able to make choices. dont blame the players for this glitchforce beta.
seriously this is this game in a nutshell
person 1: yeah hey i want a bicycle.
person 2:sure here you go
..rethinks it...
actually we're taking the front wheel. its a unicycle now, cool right?
person 1: wtf is this?
person 2: CHOICES HAS CONSEQUENSSSE
Person 1: Are you kidding me?
Person 2: HTFU kid.
   
Of something nothing is everything.
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Karl Marx II
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
320
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Posted - 2013.12.06 05:17:00 -
[111] - Quote
Feedback please CPM's ... under a week to go and nothing ... do your dam job
My Theme
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Faunher
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
13
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Posted - 2013.12.07 21:53:00 -
[112] - Quote
In my opinion, if there is a new feature being added in there should always be a partial sp refund for the skills similar to the new content being added (such as AR respec for new racial rifles). In the case of an entire skill tree revamp, a full SP respec is necessary. The FOTM argument can be made, but you should also keep in mind that some people made their choice of spec due to a lack of any other choices. I believe the vehicle respec is just, but a light weapon respec would be as well since racial variants are being introduced, and to a lesser degree, the AV nerf. |
mojo blaze
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.12.09 17:53:00 -
[113] - Quote
Been reading the forums ( more than playing really) and it hit me , call it an epiphany. It's been right in my face but I just couldn't quite place it and than like a nerfed sniper shot ( well 4-5 to get a kill , but never mind that) I realized why these forums are full of bitching and suggestions and calls for respec... It is you dear player that needs to respec, it is you that needs to adjust to DUST . Say it out loud, it's ok you're alone say the words....made in china.
Taste them, let it roll of your tongue, think walmart. The rough edges like getting stuck on a stairs, hit detection that's not all there, the excuses that don't quite make sense , as in war academy and it's many many different incarnations . Bought AUR got a new shiny toy... now out of stock now nerfed now a different color not as advertised? Do you see it?
Suddenly futuristic weapons with iron sights make sense, bullets that drop off after a 100 yards are expected, not really being able to control that fuc..ked flying tube of a transport is very reasonable even the color palate of DUST can be explained.. they used lead in the color scheme.
On paper this game should have been pretty close to a winner, it certainly got me playing, heck I even paid for stuff ...long ago.
When you can say the words, when you can understand what they mean you will have the ultimate respec, enlightenment .
See, now are you not impressed with DUST 514?
aww crap just had another thought... what if we're all playing the knock off version? |
calvin b
SCAVENGER'S DAUGHTER
1160
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Posted - 2013.12.11 04:18:00 -
[114] - Quote
Please I would love a respec. I want out of my heavy and HMG and several other areas I would love to critique. If not I will have to spend at least another 3 months of grinding to get the SP needed. Please we need a respec, make it for 1.8 and make us happy.
The evil hidden in the name
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endezeichen grimm
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.12.11 23:44:00 -
[115] - Quote
I would also like the skills to be reset so I can apply my SP better.
I have wasted to much SP because of how confusing the whole skill trees are |
RedBleach LeSanglant
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
491
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Posted - 2013.12.15 21:40:00 -
[116] - Quote
Rifter7 wrote:"choices have consequences".. yeah okay EVERY CHOICE IS THE WRONG ONE IN BETA514
like playing the god damned lottery.. we need some consistency if we're going to be able to make choices. dont blame the players for this glitchforce beta.
seriously this is this game in a nutshell
person 1: yeah hey i want a bicycle.
person 2:sure here you go
..rethinks it...
actually we're taking the front wheel. its a unicycle now, cool right?
person 1: wtf is this?
person 2: CHOICES HAS CONSEQUENSSSE
Perfect analogy for the current situation! |
Drapedup Drippedout
0uter.Heaven
138
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Posted - 2013.12.17 17:26:00 -
[117] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
For
Players are bored with their current fits.
Some have made mistakes
Players are feeling left out because they may have made the mistake of speccing into infantry when vehicles was their real calling.
Against
Free Candy Syndrome - the idea of a free respec at the time of anything gets nerfed, this behavior was well established back in beta and there are plenty of people who are very hard at letting go.
Future Prospects - In combination with FCS this will hurt any potential to monetize the and automate the system if it ever gets developed on because it was something offered regularly for free and now has to be paid for. Buy 1 get 2 free is now buy 1 get one 1 free type of backlash.
Notation
See how 0 of these points have to do with the horrible tree design?
@Iron Wolf....
In regards to your For and Against responses, I understand your concerns and warrant them as valid (I know you were waiting for my approval) but here's what I still can't understand.
You speak of Free Candy Syndrome and that any time something gets nerfed people will QQ and continuously ask for a respec. You are right, but I feel like a lot of people are getting the wool pulled over their eyes with this response.
This free candy is supposed to be in the form of a balanced FPSMMO, NOT in beta. Yet every time a patch comes out there are DRASTIC balance issues and nerfs that completely change a given weapon/module/suit etc, many times for MONTHS (Heavies, scouts, AA, TTK, etc, etc...)
People spec into what they know works, CCP does a HORRIBLE job communicating nerfs/buffs/changes, yet once they swing that nerf bat the playerbase is the one left suffering from SP sinks. Refer to Swarm Launchers in 1.7. Prior to this build they were legitimate AV, now they can barely burn an LAV. We're talking 4 months they were useful and "functioning as intended" then with about 20 days notice we are told "ps swarms are getting nerfed, tanks will be OP, any SP you have in swarms is now useless and if you have a problem with it, go **** yourself then continue to play this game".
At the rate that the Devs change this game and its functionality, respecs have to become an option and have to be available as long as they are tweaking(overhauling) game mechanics.
Their current model of live with the decisions we make for you is the crux of the playerbase issue. FOtM is not a playerbase issue, its a CCP issue. FFS these are the same idiots that had tanks ramping across the map on day 1 of 1.7.
Why is there a FOTM? Because CCP doesn't know what they're doing yet, we get it guys, and we've stuck with you through all of this bullshit. All we are asking is that while you are changing the game, give your players a chance to adapt to the environment you've created. If everyone can respec 3x a year then NO ONE will have a place to complain about making a mistake with SP. It truly doesn't change the game at the top or bottom level. In fact, multiple respecs may make PC much more competitive as if your corp has 20 slayers and 3 logis, some slayers can go tank for an offensive and switch back when needed.
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