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Bendtner92
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Posted - 2013.11.21 08:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
If the CPM hasn't and still are letting CCP know that the respec coming in 1.7 is completely unfair and has several problems, I urge you to tell CCP and try to get the respec changed.
I summed it up in a small post here, but people have also added other problems later in that thread, so I'll just go through all the problems I can think of here as well.
For starters it's completely and utter bs that CCP is giving people (vehicle pilots) the option to skill out of vehicles, but people (infantry) can't skill into them. There's several problems with this.
1. CCP is giving a certain amount of the playerbase (vehicle pilots) the freedom to do what they want with their SP, while the rest of the playerbase have to live with their choices, even though the game will be radically changed in 1.7. This gives an unfair advantage to vehicle pilots, and it's something CCP should NOT be doing.
2. As the vehicle pilots won't be forced to put the refunded SP back into vehicles, but can use it where ever they want, CCP is doing an exception to certain players in regards to the often used "choices have consequences" phrase. They give vehicle pilots the option to skill out of their chosen role, which means their choices won't have consequences, while the rest of the playerbase are forced to stick with their choices. Again, this is completely unfair.
3. I personally don't really think this is a huge problem, but it was mentioned in the thread linked above. As vehicle pilots get a respec they can then also skill into the FOTM, while the rest of the playerbase can't. Again, this is an unfair advantage to vehicle pilots.
Another reason as to why a vehicle only respec is utter bs is that vehicles aren't the only thing being radically changed in 1.7. AV, and especially the Swarm Launcher is being changed so much (nerfed to the ground in my opinion) that it's completely unfair to use the "choices have consequences" phrase. As it looks like a tank will be the best AV option in 1.7 (maybe the Forge Gun as well), the dedicated AV (Swarm Launcher especially) users would likely have skilled into tanks instead. Without a respec they can't, and in this situation it's very unfair to just tell them that their choices have consequences, more so when the vehicle pilots' choices won't have consequences.
In the thread linked above I also saw some vehicle pilots saying they would like their infantry SP refunded as well, so they instead could put it into vehicles. With only a refund of the SP used in the vehicle tree they can't do this.
Because of these issues I urge the CPM to tell CCP to change the respec coming in 1.7. A couple of ideas as to how it can be handled instead:
1. CCP can allow the refunded vehicle SP to only be put back into vehicles. This would mean that the vehicle pilots' choices will have consequences, and it won't give them an unfair advantage over infantry. Personally I don't like this option very much as it still leaves the dedicated AV users in a bad situation and I'm not even sure it's possible to do this.
2. CCP can give everyone a full respec. This would solve all the issues I listed above, and in my opinion this is the most fair respec to happen. The game will be radically changed in 1.7 and I think it's only fair to give everyone a respec, as it's hard to tell people that their choices have conseqeunces, when these choices were made with a totally different knowledge.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
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Bendtner92
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Posted - 2013.11.21 20:16:00 -
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Spkr4theDead wrote:Are they overhauling everything about infantry? No. Are they adding SP sinks to infantry? No. The reason infantry complains about respects is to take their SP out of the current flavor of the month to skill into the next one. Caldari logi nerfed? Respec. Flaylock nerfed? Respec. Tac rifles nerfed? Respec.
As I've said, they're changing literally everything about vehicles. A respec is only right in this case.
Read my post again as you litterally failed to counter any of my points.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
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Bendtner92
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Posted - 2013.11.23 14:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nova Knife wrote:You actually posted this while we were in a meeting, and the topic of respecs came up around the tail end of it. Most of the CPM agrees with you completely that they should do a full rspec, and I took the opportunity to plug this thread.
We cited that while we dont know if CCP intends to enable respecs in the future as a feature, but we know they are considering it. If they are, then they should abaolutely offer a full respec this time, as the feature is not ready yet. Once players can do it on their own.... the fear of "we want a respec everytime something is nerfed/buffed" is no longer applicable.
Using my phone ti post this, so i'll add more when i have a real keyboard in front of me
Thank you for pushing this as there are serious flaws with the planned vehicle only respec.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
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Bendtner92
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Posted - 2013.11.24 15:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I just want to avoid the free candy addiction syndrome for the time being. Maybe when all the suits come out a free respec then. Id be pretty upset if we have a respec a month.
It's either that or the refunded SP can only be spent in the same role as it came from.
Otherwise CCP is playing favorites and giving certain players an advantage by letting them skill out of their chosen role etc (as listed in the OP).
CCP have known for months that a vehicle respec would be unavoidable, so if they didn't want to do a full respec they should've worked out a way to only allow the refunded SP to be spent in the same role. Since they didn't, a full respec is the only option.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
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Bendtner92
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Posted - 2013.11.26 10:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Why no CCP statement?
Yes, I know I'm impatient, but 1.7 is coming up soon and this is a serious issue.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
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Bendtner92
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Posted - 2013.11.28 10:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
CCP and a part of the CPM is completely missing the point. This has nothing to do with being for or against respecs in general.
The vehicle skill tree is being radically changed, so much that a refund of all the SP invested into it is required. That is all fine, no full respec required for this.
However, when this refunded SP can be spent anywhere, outside the vehicle skill tree as well, CCP is treating their playerbase unfairly by giving vehicle pilots with SP invested in the vehicle skill tree an unfair advantage over infantry with no/little SP invested in the vehicle skill tree.
A full respec is required in this situation. CCP has to correct this mistake.
If CCP refuses to correct this mistake it's just another of the continued decisions full of fail that have driven so many players away from this game and lately myself as well, and I was a fairly big fanboy back in closed beta.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
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Bendtner92
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Posted - 2013.11.28 19:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
I've yet to see a reasonable response to why pilots should be able to skill out of vehicles if they don't like the changes, but infantry shouldn't be able to skill into vehicles if they like the changes.
That is so backwards and should warrant a respec by itself. Then you also add in all the other factors, like pilots being able to skill into FOTM while the rest of the playerbase can't, pilots maybe needing SP from infantry skills due to higher vehicle SP sinks, AV (Swarm Launcher at least) specialists maybe wanting to skill out of a now fairly useless weapon and into a proper AV weapon in the forms of a Forge Gun or Railgun HAV, and I just can't believe that CCP is doing a vehicle respec only.
A vehicle skill tree change isn't just affecting pilots, but the entire playerbase, so of course non-plilots would need a respec as well.
Good for me it's been a long time since I threw money at CCP because with decisions like this there's not a chance I would ever throw more at them.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
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Bendtner92
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Posted - 2013.12.01 08:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
I still can't believe this is how CCP chooses to treat their players.
Thanks for trying to talk sense into CCP, but I see it's a lost cause.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
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Bendtner92
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Posted - 2013.12.02 17:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
@CPM.
Do you think it's possible to get some answers as to why we got a (optional) full respec for these skill tree changes back in May, but we can't get one now?
Tbh I fail to see how the changes back in May warranted a full respec when the 1.7 changes don't.
They can also do an optional full respec now if they don't like giving everyone a full respec automatically. This means that everyone's vehicle skills will be refunded automatically, but if people would rather get a full respec they can opt in on that by writing to support like back in May.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
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Bendtner92
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Posted - 2013.12.02 20:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I know for fact the one in may was a total 2.0 sort of deal in terms of the tree which is probably why we got it then. This one we're chopping off a branch and replacing it. A strength in 2.0 but In my opinion a creative weakness.
No. The skill tree was heavily redesigned for Uprising which lead to a full respec for everyone. A few weeks later they made the minor adjustments I linked in my post before, and because of those adjustments they offered an optional full respec to everyone.
Now the skill tree is being redesigned again, or at least a part of it is and considering it's much larger changes than those that warranted that optional respec in May, I just don't understand why there's no (optional) full respec now. Even more so when you look at all the issues in the OP.
So my question remains, why don't the 1.7 changes warrant a full respec when the minor changes in May did?
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
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Bendtner92
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Posted - 2013.12.02 20:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:They majority of dust players doesn't want a respec of any kind.
So a partial respec is more than we could ever dream of.
Made up statistics are always fun to see.
However you're likely right, but that is likely only because a lot of the players for respecs have been pushed away from the game.
If you would read the last few posts in this thread though, you will see that I suggested doing an optional full respec so that the players not wanting a respec don't get one.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
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Bendtner92
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Posted - 2013.12.02 20:34:00 -
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daishi mk03 wrote:It's not like players don't want a respec for themself .. they don't want a respec for anyone. e.g. there is this flaylock guy, killing you day after day, then flaylock gets nerfed because it was b*s* and now this guy should not get the chance to spec into the next b*s*. That's why those people don't want a respec. They don't want any kind of respec.
That's all good because this thread has nothing to do with the usual arguments for or against respecs in general. This thread is about unfair treatment and how a full respec is only fair and reasonable.
Pilots can skill out of vehicles, but infantry can't skill into vehicles. That's unfair treatment that will be solved with a full respec. I don't care if you're against respecs in general, it's unfair treatment that should NOT be happening. CCP decided to change (part of) the skill tree and thus have to give a full respec (optional or not), otherwise they're playing favorites and treating the rest of their players like ****.
They were aware of this last time, so I'm not quite sure what's the hold up this time.
Players can still be against respecs in general, I have no problem with that, but CCP is giving some players (pilots) a full respec, so they have to give everyone else the same treatment.
daishi mk03 wrote:This statistic is not made up, however, only people who want a respec whargl about it every day ... the others are happy how it is and don't whargl all day.
It is made up. If it isn't link your source.
I don't care though. It's not relevant to the discussion anyway.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
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Bendtner92
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Posted - 2013.12.02 20:44:00 -
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daishi mk03 wrote:CCP is not giving some players (pilots) a full respec. They refund SP spent into certain skills for all players.
A pilot without SP into vehicles will get nothing. An infantry man with 2m SP into vehicles will get 2m SP, an infantry guy with 20m SP into vehicles will get 20m SP, a pilot with 5m SP into vehicles will get 5m SP.
Yes, and that is the problem.
Player A with 10 million SP in vehicles can then put those 10 million SP into infantry (and thus skill out of vehicles).
Player B with 10 million SP in infantry can't take that SP and put it into vehicles (and thus skill into vehicles).
That is the problem CCP should be fixing by giving everyone the same treatment (a full respec).
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
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Bendtner92
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Posted - 2013.12.02 20:59:00 -
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daishi mk03 wrote:A full respec for everybody is not the same treatment for everybody, following the same arguments you field.
The vet will be able to reallocate 30m SP.
The new player will be able to reallocate his 1m SP.
Not fair.
Facepalm.
I'm not even going to take this debate as it's utterly pointless.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
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