Takahiro is mad, because he has skilled into heavy suits and has to run with a duvolle now.
Vehicle respec yay, full respec NO.
Also, he is a Minmatar spie.

Validating the fact that the soon to be implemented vehicle skill trees increased SP values are ridiculous, Yes hes blowing off what their saying, but hes trying to discuss JUST the respec whereas as hes already mentioned and you should be aware of the vehicle skill trees issues cant simply be fixed with a full respec and would require a full redesign of the vehicle skill tree WHICH IS WHY he is refusing to discuss it any further, while your opinions and points are valid could we please just focus on the SP reset and/or ideas for a different method?

I don't get what you trying to say but you can spec a tank easily for 20m next patch 1.7 and you will get a respec, because you tanker and you are mad and you can also go infantry and you are Minmatar spy

edit: execuse my english, its not language of my mother

No

I use all vehicles

LAV/DS/HAV

We are losing 6 vehicles in 1.7 and some skills/mods so we should have less skills but we dont

The sink has been added to turrets and also a few other skills which no longer offer anything such as the CPU skill

Depending on what i want 20mil may suffice for a basic user of vehicles, but i like to be able to use all vehicles and have a range of turrets to fit on them with decent if not perfect support skills so i get the most out of my vehicles

If the core skills are missing then really there is no point to using that 1.7mil HAV since you will not get the best out of it

Right now 20mil gives you everything including core skills, next patch it wont

Next patch you may be able to access everything but you will have to cut down on something where as i can take that SP out and put it into infantry which is much cheaper SP wise and i get access to proto everything

Infantry cannot go vehicles unless they save up about a years worth of SP, no respec for them

Vehicle requireing more SP is fine. Right now you need more than 10x more SP to spec into all infantry roles than into all vehicles. So it is good, that in the future vehicle drivers have to specialize like infantry has to. This is really unfair right now! 20m SP gives you all vehicles maxed OR a logi suit maxed. See? It's unfair now and it's fair afterwards.

Infantry isn't into vehicles right now, why should they be able to go from 0 to 100 into vehicles? They are at 0 now, they will be at 0 in the future. A infantry guy who wants to spec into vehicles now will also need 20m SP for everything (=1 year of SP). Nothing changes there.

I can fit you milito soma if you want to need help to need help fit you i will to fit you help you fit soma.

If the CPM hasn't and still are letting CCP know that the respec coming in 1.7 is completely unfair and has several problems, I urge you to tell CCP and try to get the respec changed.

I summed it up in a small post here, but people have also added other problems later in that thread, so I'll just go through all the problems I can think of here as well.

For starters it's completely and utter bs that CCP is giving people (vehicle pilots) the option to skill out of vehicles, but people (infantry) can't skill into them. There's several problems with this.

1. CCP is giving a certain amount of the playerbase (vehicle pilots) the freedom to do what they want with their SP, while the rest of the playerbase have to live with their choices, even though the game will be radically changed in 1.7. This gives an unfair advantage to vehicle pilots, and it's something CCP should NOT be doing.

2. As the vehicle pilots won't be forced to put the refunded SP back into vehicles, but can use it where ever they want, CCP is doing an exception to certain players in regards to the often used "choices have consequences" phrase. They give vehicle pilots the option to skill out of their chosen role, which means their choices won't have consequences, while the rest of the playerbase are forced to stick with their choices. Again, this is completely unfair.

3. I personally don't really think this is a huge problem, but it was mentioned in the thread linked above. As vehicle pilots get a respec they can then also skill into the FOTM, while the rest of the playerbase can't. Again, this is an unfair advantage to vehicle pilots.

Another reason as to why a vehicle only respec is utter bs is that vehicles aren't the only thing being radically changed in 1.7. AV, and especially the Swarm Launcher is being changed so much (nerfed to the ground in my opinion) that it's completely unfair to use the "choices have consequences" phrase. As it looks like a tank will be the best AV option in 1.7 (maybe the Forge Gun as well), the dedicated AV (Swarm Launcher especially) users would likely have skilled into tanks instead. Without a respec they can't, and in this situation it's very unfair to just tell them that their choices have consequences, more so when the vehicle pilots' choices won't have consequences.

In the thread linked above I also saw some vehicle pilots saying they would like their infantry SP refunded as well, so they instead could put it into vehicles. With only a refund of the SP used in the vehicle tree they can't do this.


Because of these issues I urge the CPM to tell CCP to change the respec coming in 1.7. A couple of ideas as to how it can be handled instead:

1. CCP can allow the refunded vehicle SP to only be put back into vehicles. This would mean that the vehicle pilots' choices will have consequences, and it won't give them an unfair advantage over infantry. Personally I don't like this option very much as it still leaves the dedicated AV users in a bad situation and I'm not even sure it's possible to do this.

2. CCP can give everyone a full respec. This would solve all the issues I listed above, and in my opinion this is the most fair respec to happen. The game will be radically changed in 1.7 and I think it's only fair to give everyone a respec, as it's hard to tell people that their choices have conseqeunces, when these choices were made with a totally different knowledge.

2 proto suits with 2 proto weapons and core skills is FAR away from everything. 20m SP now grants you all, ALL vehicles.
I think it will be more fair in 1.7.

you can skill 1 turret (usage), both available tank hulls (at once) and core skill, maybe a dropship. it's fair, trust me, trust me, it's fair, trust me.

I can fit you milito somo tanker fit you help you railgun militio somo tank

2 proto suits with 2 proto weapons and core skills is FAR away from everything. 20m SP now grants you all, ALL vehicles.
I think it will be more fair in 1.7.

you can skill 1 turret (usage), both available tank hulls (at once) and core skill, maybe a dropship. it's fair, trust me, trust me, it's fair, trust me.

I can fit you milito somo tanker fit you help you railgun militio somo tank

I wish you good luck! I hope you will get what you want!

If you need help I can fit you two good militio somo yolo tank somo railgung militio tank

You see, it's like in the real world. No matter which way you choose, some people will like it and some people will not.

Seriously, there needs to be a full respec. This isn't about jumping into the next FoTM.

-Pilots can go full infantry, yet infantry cannot.
-Pilots have to use more SP to build a good Vehicle, so they would most likely need their SP that they put into infantry back to put into Vehicles (Ken mentioned this while I was squadded with him).
-AV is getting drastically changed.


How is it fair to allow Pilots to completely change course of their character and skills but not allow others to change theirs?

P.S. Sorry if these were already mentioned

Nope, you summed up the points that were made here for a full respec in 1.7, rather than the partial one to vehicles. Still, I believe the plans are set in stone, and have been for a while. Maybe we got's some content in the future.

It's either that or the refunded SP can only be spent in the same role as it came from.

Otherwise CCP is playing favorites and giving certain players an advantage by letting them skill out of their chosen role etc (as listed in the OP).

CCP have known for months that a vehicle respec would be unavoidable, so if they didn't want to do a full respec they should've worked out a way to only allow the refunded SP to be spent in the same role. Since they didn't, a full respec is the only option.

WWWHHAAATTTT???? Are u crazy????? i've 15KK sp in vehicle and u think that i use my sp for the vehicle that i don't like it???? absolutely no!!! i want back my sp for infantry??? it's normal!!! for me the respec for vehicle is correct and it's an error a respec for everyone.....

"Potentially get free SP." I understand you're saying this goes on in EVE however speaking for a majority of the people I play with on DUST ....what is considered common place there generally has little to no bearing in DUST, not saying I don't value you're point but I have not seen it hinted at or said that in place of a respec we could be given "free sp" which could potentially be a good alternative but a few questions come to mind seeing as how EVE sp accumulation works and DUST sp accumulation works I cant really wrap my head around how getting free SP in eve works and how it could be implemented into DUST.

1. isn't SP just a value tacked onto your character (increasing values the higher the skill your training) that when added up add to the value of your character should you ever choose to sell it and also forces you to purchase higher quality clones to add another element of risk to the game, being the loss of trained skills if you do not have a high enough quality clone to retain your total SP?

2. if the latter is true then how does giving "free sp" to EVE players translate to DUST, I couldn't see giving mercs millions of SP to mercs a good thing(the SP events aside), only worsening the gap between newer players and vets. (raising the bar for vets in pc making it more difficult for newer players to reach the total SP they need for a corp to feel comfortable putting them into a pc)

3.I agree there will and always has been a certain magnetism to FOTM whether in the endgame aspect (PC) or simply wanting to PUB stomp more efficiently and giving respecs to people with 10s of millions of SP only to allow us to better allocate it and enhance our already favorite builds is unfair to those people with just the minimum SP required to get the gear they need to compete who even after a respec must either pull away from the endgame scene to put points into what they consider fun and grind away for months until they have it perfected enough to compete with the latest FOTM or put everything they have into the newest FOTM and deal with the hate that goes hand in hand with it.

3(Addendum). and tbh I wanted to make a point of how a respec would benefit people who invested SP into the new content simply to have something new to use but this falls under the "For" section IWS brought up earlier that being "players who are bored with their current fits." but it seems to me a better idea would be to add another group to that section, those being the competitive scene (endgame,pc, whatever.) vehicle users who (may not have happened to some but I had first hand experience with this) were urged by their corpmates and CEOs/directors to invest points into an infantry suit in order to cut costs in PC and add more versatility to their repertoire