Actually no.

The cap is here because progression is literally the only content CCP has to offer us right now. Without a cap, people will run out of 'stuff to do' after a few months and then retention will suffer.


With actual content, progression becomes secondary and a cap is no longer needed.

Alright then Mister CPM, if I'm wrong, explain how CCP intends to keep to the plan that maxing out a character, once we have all the intended skills, should take about six years. If there is no cap, then there will be people who do nothing but live on Dust maxing out their characters in about six months instead.

As for running out of stuff to do, as you put it, we ran out of "stuff to do" after we played each of the contract types for the first time. I'm still here because it's still fun and I have made friends that I enjoy teaming with.

Part of building a game like Dust is continuation of the release new stuff.

November 19, 2013 marked the release of several new items in Eve Online. The Mobile Tractor Unit for Salvagers that pulls wrecks to the module and loots them into a common container to be picked up after salvaging a site or complex.

The SOE frigates and cruisers which happen to be the only T1 hulls in game that are able to use Covert Ops Cloaking devices as well as Covert Ops (may just be the regular type) Cynosural Field Generators.

There are also several more items that have been added for lots of cool things to do and new ways to exploit other players.

There are lots of ways to increase the number of skills needed to play the game, all it takes is adding a new module needing X new skill to use. For a new weapon we need new skills for a new dropsuit we need a new skill for a new vehicle type we need a new skill.

This concept of a game as a service involves constant development, constant testing and an ever changing gameplay surface that will be (should-be) constantly filled with fresh game play styles and new ways to have fun and destroy other players and their assets as well as cheat them, ruin them and get rich or die trying! Welcome to New Eden.

That's all well and good and I understand that... New content is always good and I won't argue with you about that. But this isn't about content.

It has still not been explained as to how CCP could keep to their plan that maxing out a character, once we have all the intended skills, should take about six years.

Yes, Eve gets a few new skills over ten years, but not many Most new modules/ships use already existing skills. If we go by a "no SP cap" model that many people are clamoring for, Dust will have to have thousands of skills to support such a system with an intended six year plan to fully master all skills.

a topic i started about new player experience
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1514164#post1514164

as for what has already been discussed. Increasing the SP cap isnt going to change much, Ill still sit in the MCC and gather 5sp/sec of in game time.

For me to play the game and get wrecked by proto players over and over again I need to see a big increase in WP gained in battle. Currently I struggle to get 700WP which is a drop in the bucket compared to the 400k I get per week through passives/logging on and being in battle.

As is I have no interest in joining battle as outlined in my topic. Not for 700wp. If on the other hand players below a certain SP level were given a big boost to their WP that could change. Its very difficult to kill anyone as a new player. Im talking like 200wp for a kill and 100 for hacking turrets and such. Otherwise the aggravation of battle is too high compared to the reward.

All this talk of detail is bassackwards.

Before we design a new system we should first specify what the goals are.
We can then determine if any of the goals are incompatable and their relative ranking.

Then we can judge the merits of each proposal by how well it accomplishes the goals.

Starting with the details obscures several different goals.

So what are the goals? Here's my impression:

1) Remove the pressure to grind the points or lose them
2) Remove the disincentive to continue playing
3) Allow new players to quickly attain competativeness
4) Pace SP accrual to prevent some players from gaining every skill available
5) Encourage paid SP boosting as a revenue stream

I think you're misunderstanding the six (I thought they said seven) year plan. They don't want anyone to ever max out. They picked six years because it's beyond our ability to reach for a long time. I fully expect more SP sinks to come over the years so that it's never mathematically possible to have it all.

The above is probably the most important post in here. These are the goals for the system. I have an idea that I think hits all of these. Hear me out.

Players currently earn Passive SP every second at (wrong, but for sake of simplicity lets say) 1 SP per second. If they have a Passive Booster they then earn 50% more Passive SP making their rate 1.5 SP per second. This ticks upwards throughout the day and we all like it.

Expand that. Create a new pool named "Unclaimed Active SP" and have it gain SP at a rate of 1 SP per second. If the player has an Active Booster then this rate is increased by 50% to 1.5 SP per second. This is your cap. No more X max SP per day or Y max SP per week. If you finish a match and deplete this pool then by the time you finish your next 15 minute match it'll have ticked slowly back up to 900 SP (1350 if you're boosted). Leave for an hour and come back and now your "Unclaimed SP" is at 3600. No more hitting a cap and getting zero rewards for the rest of your matches.

Expand that further. Add a new Booster called an Active Multiplier. It doesn't increase your "Unclaimed SP" rate it instead multiplies the SP you make at the end of the match. So if you have 40,000 "Unclaimed" SP and a x10 Multiplier on then at the end of the match your usual 2K SP reward becomes 20K. This allows people who leave for awhile to come back and pay to quickly empty their "Unclaimed SP" pool - thus reducing the grind.

This system hits all of the above goals.

1) Remove the pressure to grind the points or lose them
You never lose Active SP as it is always added to your "Unclaimed SP" pool every second. To reduce the grind you can purchase "Multiplier" Boosters to claim the SP from your "Unclaimed" pool faster.

2) Remove the disincentive to continue playing
You will always get SP for playing a match since your "Unclaimed" pool is always increasing. So if you deplete your "Unclaimed" pool then start another match, in the 10 minutes it takes you to finish your pool will have increased to 600 SP (900 boosted) thus netting you 600 SP at the end of your match.

3) Allow new players to quickly attain competativeness
This system doesn't directly help new players. But if all new players started with an "Unclaimed" pool of 5 million SP and a 10 day x10 Booster then they'd catch up pretty quick. (Different discussion but the system facilitates the goal)

4) Pace SP accrual to prevent some players from gaining every skill available
This system paces player SP accrual. A player still has a cap, it is just increasing every second at a small rate rather than limiting them to X amount a week.

5) Encourage paid SP boosting as a revenue stream
All players would want to purchase Boosters as they increase the total SP they could make by 50%. More casual players would be incentivized to purchase Multipliers as it allows them to quickly empty their "Unclaimed" pool without having to play hundreds of matches.

TL/DR: Please read it all, thank you very much.

I'm good with everything but number three.

I'd like to link to my suggestion for a large, constantly regenerating pool of SP: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=462915#post462915



Active boosters simply increase the rate at which the pool refills (and increases the max pool size).

Just remove the cap and thats it. There is average 21-25 million sp difference between vets and newbies. Vets wont get much overpowered - they are already there. On the other hand vets will have opportunity to be versatile and enjoy new suits and roles and newbies will have there chance to catch up.

This morning we had a meeting with CCP, and during this meeting we were essentially given some homework. One of the things we railed pretty hard on was an emphatic urging that the old promise of a rollover system was sorely needed, The cap puts us in a bad spot, and we wanted people to have a way to rip down the barriers of segregation the cap creates between new and old players.

So, the purpose of this thread is to collect player thoughts and proposals about how to rework the system. What is the best way to introduce a "catch up" mechanic? SP Rollover, No cap until X SP, No cap at all? Something else?

The ball is in our court as players to propose to CCP the best way to move forward with this, so the CPM is coming to you guys in order to decide our play.

If linking another thread : Please summarize (Or quote the OP) to allow for reasonable discussion and/or easy linking to CCP in future to say "In X post Y player said Z, and people liked/disliked it"

1. SP roller over. I started in June it would be nice if i can earn the SP which i miss out on before i started playing the game.

This may actually help sell boosters imo.


2. After Capping SP earned should equal wp earned in battle.

OR : Remove Cap completely and have SP earned equal to WP earned. This also fixes AFK issue as if no wp is earned no SP will be earned. People with boosters still get the extra 50% so i dont think it would hurt booster sales.