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Catching up: Proposals surrounding the SP cap.

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Severus Smith Caldari State 421	Posted - 2013.11.14 15:38:00 - [1] - Quote dustwaffle wrote: The only problem I see with complete removal of active SP, and only leaving passive SP is: In EVE, SP gain is monetized by having to pay a subscription to the game so keep gaining SP over time. In Dust, no subscription is required to play. In this case, this would bring about: 1. Players who think, I can never catch up to the vets in SP, so why bother? This is similar to how a lot of people mistakenly believe this in EVE. However, the difference between both games is that player skill and knowledge does not give you as much of an advantage in a first person shooter. 2. Players just signing up, creating an alt and leaving it to accrue SP over a long period, finally coming back to the game and having the same amounts of SP as someone who started at the same time. As it is, the game already suffers from a low player count, this would, IMO, compound the problem. 3. Players who think there are no rewards for playing apart from ISK gain. See point 2. In any case, this would reduce a revenue stream in the form of active boosters, and we have no way of knowing if passive booster sales would increase, though in all likelihood they probably wouldn't. While some people play for fun (I hardly cap and genuinely enjoy playing Dust), for a lot of gamers today, it's all about the carrot and stick. All passive SP would not be a large enough carrot to entice them to play, as they hold the mentality that they should be rewarded some way or another just for participating. My 0.02 ISK Create a Booster that costs the same as a monthly EVE subscription that sets your Active SP accrual to 0% and your passive to 400% (or whatever number that equals you hitting your active cap every day). BAM! No more SP grind. It is now all passive and I don't have to grind every damn day to play this game. All problems solved and CCP gets money.
Severus Smith Caldari State 427	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:10:00 - [2] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: I understand disliking the passive SP in fight entirely. Trust me. I spammed the forum back in the day when it was announced by CCP about the fact it would make people passively farm in the MCC. And it happened, and lasted for month (year ?) I wouldnt be saddened if it were to completely disappear at some point, far from that. I just tried offering a valid system using the established components. But yeah there is definitely a system, somewhere, in someone's mind, that would offer a much more valid and balance system regarding SP progression. Yet, the way it helps players and specific roles to still be in track SP wise seems to me like a decent enough idea. I know it has many downside. But to be fair, players being passive, or playing it safe isnt tied to passive SP in my opinion. In every FPS, you'll see people not taking chances, and hiding if the wind doesnt blow in their favor. Redlines, cowardness etcc arent a dust only thing. So i wouldnt pin that on the passive SP. Though i would agree that the current protection against AFK farming are way too weak and need to be addressed. No passive SP\WP gain while in the redline would already be a good first step for example. All i know is that the current system is not good enough. i'd rather get a better yet still not perfect system that allows for many things that arent possible now (rollover\New player experience and sp progression) than the perfect one in a year even though ultimately i'd agree with you regarding passive SP in battle. WP to SP only system sounds perfect on paper. And tbh before the beta was released, i always thought the active SP part of battles would be just that and that the off battle passive part of the SP earnings would be the main SP income source for everybody. In a way, it would be just the same but very different at the same time. What if you had WP = SP but the exchange value changes depending on how many Active SP you've gained over a period of time. Basically, supply side economics. - No more 1 second = 5 WP - No more weekly cap - 1 WP = 1 SP * exchange rate - The exchange rate is based on how many SP you have gained over the last 7 days. The more SP you've accumulated the lower the exchange rate. It would work similar to EVE LP. Where when the market gets over-saturated with Caldari LP the value of Caldari LP plummets and is worth less. So when a Veteran player plays 20 matches in a row and gains 3000 WP each, his SP to WP exchange rate decreases. You could start with a high exchange rate. 1 WP = 10 SP. So to new players it is exciting because your first match with 500 WP gets you 5000 SP. Then as you play more and your "supply" of SP increases the exchange rate falls. So the exchange rate drops from 10 to 9, then 8, then 7, etc... until eventually its at 1 or 0.5. Make it like 250,000 active SP over the last 7 days. As you approach this number the exchange rate decreases. There should be a floor, so really active players could pass the 250,000 number, but it would be really low like 0.5 or 0.25 exchange rate. This makes the game exciting to new players, keeps casual players involved without it being too grindy, and allows dedicated players to catch up since there is no "cap", only a progressively smaller exchange rate. It also completely kills AFK farming, and with CCP's new WP farming limit it's pretty hard to farm them actively. Ideas?
Severus Smith Caldari State 430	Posted - 2013.11.21 21:40:00 - [3] - Quote Skihids wrote: All this talk of detail is bassackwards. Before we design a new system we should first specify what the goals are. We can then determine if any of the goals are incompatable and their relative ranking. Then we can judge the merits of each proposal by how well it accomplishes the goals. Starting with the details obscures several different goals. So what are the goals? Here's my impression: 1) Remove the pressure to grind the points or lose them 2) Remove the disincentive to continue playing 3) Allow new players to quickly attain competativeness 4) Pace SP accrual to prevent some players from gaining every skill available 5) Encourage paid SP boosting as a revenue stream The above is probably the most important post in here. These are the goals for the system. I have an idea that I think hits all of these. Hear me out. Players currently earn Passive SP every second at (wrong, but for sake of simplicity lets say) 1 SP per second. If they have a Passive Booster they then earn 50% more Passive SP making their rate 1.5 SP per second. This ticks upwards throughout the day and we all like it. Expand that. Create a new pool named "Unclaimed Active SP" and have it gain SP at a rate of 1 SP per second. If the player has an Active Booster then this rate is increased by 50% to 1.5 SP per second. This is your cap. No more X max SP per day or Y max SP per week. If you finish a match and deplete this pool then by the time you finish your next 15 minute match it'll have ticked slowly back up to 900 SP (1350 if you're boosted). Leave for an hour and come back and now your "Unclaimed SP" is at 3600. No more hitting a cap and getting zero rewards for the rest of your matches. Expand that further. Add a new Booster called an Active Multiplier. It doesn't increase your "Unclaimed SP" rate it instead multiplies the SP you make at the end of the match. So if you have 40,000 "Unclaimed" SP and a x10 Multiplier on then at the end of the match your usual 2K SP reward becomes 20K. This allows people who leave for awhile to come back and pay to quickly empty their "Unclaimed SP" pool - thus reducing the grind. This system hits all of the above goals. 1) Remove the pressure to grind the points or lose them You never lose Active SP as it is always added to your "Unclaimed SP" pool every second. To reduce the grind you can purchase "Multiplier" Boosters to claim the SP from your "Unclaimed" pool faster. 2) Remove the disincentive to continue playing You will always get SP for playing a match since your "Unclaimed" pool is always increasing. So if you deplete your "Unclaimed" pool then start another match, in the 10 minutes it takes you to finish your pool will have increased to 600 SP (900 boosted) thus netting you 600 SP at the end of your match. 3) Allow new players to quickly attain competativeness This system doesn't directly help new players. But if all new players started with an "Unclaimed" pool of 5 million SP and a 10 day x10 Booster then they'd catch up pretty quick. (Different discussion but the system facilitates the goal) 4) Pace SP accrual to prevent some players from gaining every skill available This system paces player SP accrual. A player still has a cap, it is just increasing every second at a small rate rather than limiting them to X amount a week. 5) Encourage paid SP boosting as a revenue stream All players would want to purchase Boosters as they increase the total SP they could make by 50%. More casual players would be incentivized to purchase Multipliers as it allows them to quickly empty their "Unclaimed" pool without having to play hundreds of matches. TL/DR: Please read it all, thank you very much.
Severus Smith Caldari State 430	Posted - 2013.11.22 16:06:00 - [4] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: Severus Smith wrote: Skihids wrote: All this talk of detail is bassackwards. Before we design a new system we should first specify what the goals are. We can then determine if any of the goals are incompatable and their relative ranking. Then we can judge the merits of each proposal by how well it accomplishes the goals. Starting with the details obscures several different goals. So what are the goals? Here's my impression: 1) Remove the pressure to grind the points or lose them 2) Remove the disincentive to continue playing 3) Allow new players to quickly attain competativeness 4) Pace SP accrual to prevent some players from gaining every skill available 5) Encourage paid SP boosting as a revenue stream The above is probably the most important post in here. These are the goals for the system. I have an idea that I think hits all of these. Hear me out. Players currently earn Passive SP every second at (wrong, but for sake of simplicity lets say) 1 SP per second. If they have a Passive Booster they then earn 50% more Passive SP making their rate 1.5 SP per second. This ticks upwards throughout the day and we all like it. Expand that. Create a new pool named "Unclaimed Active SP" and have it gain SP at a rate of 1 SP per second. If the player has an Active Booster then this rate is increased by 50% to 1.5 SP per second. This is your cap. No more X max SP per day or Y max SP per week. If you finish a match and deplete this pool then by the time you finish your next 15 minute match it'll have ticked slowly back up to 900 SP (1350 if you're boosted). Leave for an hour and come back and now your "Unclaimed SP" is at 3600. No more hitting a cap and getting zero rewards for the rest of your matches. Expand that further. Add a new Booster called an Active Multiplier. It doesn't increase your "Unclaimed SP" rate it instead multiplies the SP you make at the end of the match. So if you have 40,000 "Unclaimed" SP and a x10 Multiplier on then at the end of the match your usual 2K SP reward becomes 20K. This allows people who leave for awhile to come back and pay to quickly empty their "Unclaimed SP" pool - thus reducing the grind. This system hits all of the above goals. 1) Remove the pressure to grind the points or lose them You never lose Active SP as it is always added to your "Unclaimed SP" pool every second. To reduce the grind you can purchase "Multiplier" Boosters to claim the SP from your "Unclaimed" pool faster. 2) Remove the disincentive to continue playing You will always get SP for playing a match since your "Unclaimed" pool is always increasing. So if you deplete your "Unclaimed" pool then start another match, in the 10 minutes it takes you to finish your pool will have increased to 600 SP (900 boosted) thus netting you 600 SP at the end of your match. 3) Allow new players to quickly attain competativeness This system doesn't directly help new players. But if all new players started with an "Unclaimed" pool of 5 million SP and a 10 day x10 Booster then they'd catch up pretty quick. (Different discussion but the system facilitates the goal) 4) Pace SP accrual to prevent some players from gaining every skill available This system paces player SP accrual. A player still has a cap, it is just increasing every second at a small rate rather than limiting them to X amount a week. 5) Encourage paid SP boosting as a revenue stream All players would want to purchase Boosters as they increase the total SP they could make by 50%. More casual players would be incentivized to purchase Multipliers as it allows them to quickly empty their "Unclaimed" pool without having to play hundreds of matches. TL/DR: Please read it all, thank you very much. I'm good with everything but number three. Yeah, the 5 mil + 10x booster was meant more as sarcasm (impossible to capture in text, sorry). Either way, new players gaining competitiveness can be facilitated with the system. That was my point.

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