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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens League of Infamy
374
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Posted - 2013.11.18 22:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is a real world example of what is being asked for with a "catch up" system that people are asking for.
-I just got hired at a new job but I haven't made the same amount of money as they guy that's been there for twenty years who's made six hundred thousand. I want extra pay so that I can gain at least two hundred thousand in one year so I can "catch up". It's only fair as I haven't been here as long to make the same amount of money.
I say switch to fully passive skilling like the Eve system and no-one will have to worry about the cap ever again. Then the only excuse for not having steady progression is in letting the skill queue run dry.
The forge gun splash radius nerf has not diminished my ability to kill infantry with it. Thank you.
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Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens League of Infamy
376
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Posted - 2013.11.18 23:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
castba wrote:Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: I say switch to fully passive skilling like the Eve system and no-one will have to worry about the cap ever again. Then the only excuse for not having steady progression is in letting the skill queue run dry.
Implementing that now would be very, very interesting as it would mean an SP reset of all players. The problems would be player retention, incentive for jaded players to play and refunding AUR players have spent on boosters. That said, I actually wouldn't mind if this did happen as long as 1. everyone started with ~2mil SP. It would definitely increase the importance of early skill decisions 2. SP generated at 1 every 1.5 per seconds without boosters (it would mean just over 400k SP per week - close to the same as if capping with the current system)
SP reset would be unnecessary though the AUR refund for unused active boosters would be.
As for 400k SP per week, I'd love to finally make that amount of SP weekly. With that kind of boost in passive SP gains no-one would need the extra 1.5 mil starting SP.
The forge gun splash radius nerf has not diminished my ability to kill infantry with it. Thank you.
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Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens League of Infamy
377
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Posted - 2013.11.19 03:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
emtbraincase wrote:But as it stands, a newer player can never catch an established player. This would mean they could. Nothing more.
Newer players can catch up to established players because skill levels are capped at five and there are only a finite number of skills. You're essentially saying that newer players will never get level five in their skills. That's total cr@p. Quit catering to the lazy and the spoiled. Keeping it fair means you don't cheapen the efforts of the players who earned what they have by giving newer, and slower, players the same thing for less effort.
Let's say you work for five years getting two percent raises every six months. Then some new guy comes in and tries to convince the boss to give him five percent raises every three months till he catches up with your pay rate because he feels it's unfair that you make more than he does even though you've been doing the job longer. I doubt you'd support the new guy's case.
The forge gun splash radius nerf has not diminished my ability to kill infantry with it. Thank you.
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Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens League of Infamy
379
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Posted - 2013.11.20 01:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Skullmizer Vulcansu wrote:Sirpidey Adtur wrote:A few options that haven't been mentioned.
I'd like to mention that I have personally never reached cap, and before I can make an informed decision about what is actually best for the playerbase, I'd need to see statistics on how many people actually REACH cap in a week.
More important than fixing the cap though, is removing worthless skills, and empty levels. I am a new player, and I reached the cap in one day. I played 16 hours straight, and was frustrated that I could not continue. All my equipment is still sup-par, and I can hardly compete with anyone. It is discouraging. A roll-over system sounds unhelpful to me. I don't know why there is a cap. It's certainly too tight, though.
The cap is there because the game is about an investment of time and effort and how it will affect the Eve/Dust universe, not the CoD unlock everything in a week KDR ***** ideology.
The forge gun splash radius nerf has not diminished my ability to kill infantry with it. Thank you.
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Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens League of Infamy
380
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Posted - 2013.11.20 22:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nova Knife wrote:Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:
The cap is there because the game is about an investment of time and effort and how it will affect the Eve/Dust universe, not the CoD unlock everything in a week KDR ***** ideology.
Actually no. The cap is here because progression is literally the only content CCP has to offer us right now. Without a cap, people will run out of 'stuff to do' after a few months and then retention will suffer. With actual content, progression becomes secondary and a cap is no longer needed.
Alright then Mister CPM, if I'm wrong, explain how CCP intends to keep to the plan that maxing out a character, once we have all the intended skills, should take about six years. If there is no cap, then there will be people who do nothing but live on Dust maxing out their characters in about six months instead.
As for running out of stuff to do, as you put it, we ran out of "stuff to do" after we played each of the contract types for the first time. I'm still here because it's still fun and I have made friends that I enjoy teaming with.
The forge gun splash radius nerf has not diminished my ability to kill infantry with it. Thank you.
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Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens League of Infamy
380
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Posted - 2013.11.21 02:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:Nova Knife wrote:Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:
The cap is there because the game is about an investment of time and effort and how it will affect the Eve/Dust universe, not the CoD unlock everything in a week KDR ***** ideology.
Actually no. The cap is here because progression is literally the only content CCP has to offer us right now. Without a cap, people will run out of 'stuff to do' after a few months and then retention will suffer. With actual content, progression becomes secondary and a cap is no longer needed. Alright then Mister CPM, if I'm wrong, explain how CCP intends to keep to the plan that maxing out a character, once we have all the intended skills, should take about six years. If there is no cap, then there will be people who do nothing but live on Dust maxing out their characters in about six months instead. As for running out of stuff to do, as you put it, we ran out of "stuff to do" after we played each of the contract types for the first time. I'm still here because it's still fun and I have made friends that I enjoy teaming with. Part of building a game like Dust is continuation of the release new stuff. November 19, 2013 marked the release of several new items in Eve Online. The Mobile Tractor Unit for Salvagers that pulls wrecks to the module and loots them into a common container to be picked up after salvaging a site or complex. The SOE frigates and cruisers which happen to be the only T1 hulls in game that are able to use Covert Ops Cloaking devices as well as Covert Ops (may just be the regular type) Cynosural Field Generators. There are also several more items that have been added for lots of cool things to do and new ways to exploit other players. There are lots of ways to increase the number of skills needed to play the game, all it takes is adding a new module needing X new skill to use. For a new weapon we need new skills for a new dropsuit we need a new skill for a new vehicle type we need a new skill. This concept of a game as a service involves constant development, constant testing and an ever changing gameplay surface that will be (should-be) constantly filled with fresh game play styles and new ways to have fun and destroy other players and their assets as well as cheat them, ruin them and get rich or die trying! Welcome to New Eden.
That's all well and good and I understand that... New content is always good and I won't argue with you about that. But this isn't about content.
It has still not been explained as to how CCP could keep to their plan that maxing out a character, once we have all the intended skills, should take about six years.
Yes, Eve gets a few new skills over ten years, but not many Most new modules/ships use already existing skills. If we go by a "no SP cap" model that many people are clamoring for, Dust will have to have thousands of skills to support such a system with an intended six year plan to fully master all skills.
The forge gun splash radius nerf has not diminished my ability to kill infantry with it. Thank you.
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Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens League of Infamy
380
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Posted - 2013.11.22 04:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:
Part of building a game like Dust is continuation of the release new stuff.
November 19, 2013 marked the release of several new items in Eve Online. The Mobile Tractor Unit for Salvagers that pulls wrecks to the module and loots them into a common container to be picked up after salvaging a site or complex.
The SOE frigates and cruisers which happen to be the only T1 hulls in game that are able to use Covert Ops Cloaking devices as well as Covert Ops (may just be the regular type) Cynosural Field Generators.
There are also several more items that have been added for lots of cool things to do and new ways to exploit other players.
There are lots of ways to increase the number of skills needed to play the game, all it takes is adding a new module needing X new skill to use. For a new weapon we need new skills for a new dropsuit we need a new skill for a new vehicle type we need a new skill.
This concept of a game as a service involves constant development, constant testing and an ever changing gameplay surface that will be (should-be) constantly filled with fresh game play styles and new ways to have fun and destroy other players and their assets as well as cheat them, ruin them and get rich or die trying! Welcome to New Eden.
That's all well and good and I understand that... New content is always good and I won't argue with you about that. But this isn't about content. It has still not been explained as to how CCP could keep to their plan that maxing out a character, once we have all the intended skills, should take about six years. Yes, Eve gets a few new skills over ten years, but not many Most new modules/ships use already existing skills. If we go by a "no SP cap" model that many people are clamoring for, Dust will have to have thousands of skills to support such a system with an intended six year plan to fully master all skills. I think you're misunderstanding the six (I thought they said seven) year plan. They don't want anyone to ever max out. They picked six years because it's beyond our ability to reach for a long time. I fully expect more SP sinks to come over the years so that it's never mathematically possible to have it all.
Ok. Seven year plan then, but that would still be ruined by the current SP system if it didn't have a cap.
I still believe a Eve style queue system would be the most beneficial, or completely eliminate active SP gains and adjust passive gains to enable the skill progression speed CCP intends.
For those that still want more SP faster, do what other players do and buy a booster. A "catch up" system is for slow, entitled, and/or lazy players who don't want to put the time and effort in to play and should never exist.
And before anyone calls me a no-lifer booster buyer, I bought a 24 hour booster once in closed beta, My average weekly playtime is less than ten hours, and I've only ever hit the cap once in my entire time of playing.
The forge gun splash radius nerf has not diminished my ability to kill infantry with it. Thank you.
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Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens League of Infamy
380
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Posted - 2013.11.22 04:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Severus Smith wrote:Skihids wrote:All this talk of detail is bassackwards.
Before we design a new system we should first specify what the goals are. We can then determine if any of the goals are incompatable and their relative ranking.
Then we can judge the merits of each proposal by how well it accomplishes the goals.
Starting with the details obscures several different goals.
So what are the goals? Here's my impression:
1) Remove the pressure to grind the points or lose them 2) Remove the disincentive to continue playing 3) Allow new players to quickly attain competativeness 4) Pace SP accrual to prevent some players from gaining every skill available 5) Encourage paid SP boosting as a revenue stream The above is probably the most important post in here. These are the goals for the system. I have an idea that I think hits all of these. Hear me out. Players currently earn Passive SP every second at (wrong, but for sake of simplicity lets say) 1 SP per second. If they have a Passive Booster they then earn 50% more Passive SP making their rate 1.5 SP per second. This ticks upwards throughout the day and we all like it. Expand that. Create a new pool named "Unclaimed Active SP" and have it gain SP at a rate of 1 SP per second. If the player has an Active Booster then this rate is increased by 50% to 1.5 SP per second. This is your cap. No more X max SP per day or Y max SP per week. If you finish a match and deplete this pool then by the time you finish your next 15 minute match it'll have ticked slowly back up to 900 SP (1350 if you're boosted). Leave for an hour and come back and now your "Unclaimed SP" is at 3600. No more hitting a cap and getting zero rewards for the rest of your matches. Expand that further. Add a new Booster called an Active Multiplier. It doesn't increase your "Unclaimed SP" rate it instead multiplies the SP you make at the end of the match. So if you have 40,000 "Unclaimed" SP and a x10 Multiplier on then at the end of the match your usual 2K SP reward becomes 20K. This allows people who leave for awhile to come back and pay to quickly empty their "Unclaimed SP" pool - thus reducing the grind. This system hits all of the above goals. 1) Remove the pressure to grind the points or lose themYou never lose Active SP as it is always added to your "Unclaimed SP" pool every second. To reduce the grind you can purchase "Multiplier" Boosters to claim the SP from your "Unclaimed" pool faster. 2) Remove the disincentive to continue playingYou will always get SP for playing a match since your "Unclaimed" pool is always increasing. So if you deplete your "Unclaimed" pool then start another match, in the 10 minutes it takes you to finish your pool will have increased to 600 SP (900 boosted) thus netting you 600 SP at the end of your match. 3) Allow new players to quickly attain competativenessThis system doesn't directly help new players. But if all new players started with an "Unclaimed" pool of 5 million SP and a 10 day x10 Booster then they'd catch up pretty quick. (Different discussion but the system facilitates the goal) 4) Pace SP accrual to prevent some players from gaining every skill available This system paces player SP accrual. A player still has a cap, it is just increasing every second at a small rate rather than limiting them to X amount a week. 5) Encourage paid SP boosting as a revenue streamAll players would want to purchase Boosters as they increase the total SP they could make by 50%. More casual players would be incentivized to purchase Multipliers as it allows them to quickly empty their "Unclaimed" pool without having to play hundreds of matches. TL/DR: Please read it all, thank you very much.
I'm good with everything but number three.
The forge gun splash radius nerf has not diminished my ability to kill infantry with it. Thank you.
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Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens League of Infamy
381
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Posted - 2013.11.28 20:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
The Shadow Prince wrote:1. SP roller over. I started in June it would be nice if i can earn the SP which i miss out on before i started playing the game.
This may actually help sell boosters imo.
2. After Capping SP earned should equal wp earned in battle.
OR : Remove Cap completely and have SP earned equal to WP earned. This also fixes AFK issue as if no wp is earned no SP will be earned. People with boosters still get the extra 50% so i dont think it would hurt booster sales.
Do you also think you should be given more food because of all the food you missed out on in the last three point six billion years?
The forge gun splash radius nerf has not diminished my ability to kill infantry with it. Thank you.
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