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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
801
   |
Posted - 2013.11.10 01:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:Atiim wrote:True Adamance wrote:AV= too easy right now
I like the proposed changes because that way we will see more vehicles on the maps. And tanks are difficult? Aside from redline AV and 2 idiots on high towers with IAFGs (who QQ about them simultaneously), tanks are quite possibly the easiest thing in the game right now. they are the hardest class to use in the game, if they were as easy as you say they are, 100% of dust would be using them you ******* idiot
- Infinite Ammo
- Near complete immunity to all but 3 infantry weapons in the entire game (REs don't count as weapons)
- Ability to fulfill multiple roles at the exact same time
- Requires an entire class to deal with.
The only reason why all of DUST doesn't use them is because of how expensive they are in comparison to dropsuits. The SP sink problem is a joke, It doesn't even take that much SP to get them running complete non-militia garbage.
Well that, and some people find more excitement in doing things besides driving inside a giant steel box firing infinite rounds at enemies.
Which is why I can't wait for the finite ammo system to come in, I'll finally have a reason to destroy Supply Depots in Matri/Caldari FW.
There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry
You'll still be useful in my eyes
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Benjamin Ciscko
The Generals
EoN.
182
|
Posted - 2013.11.10 02:38:00 -
[32] - Quote
My best fit tank (a little more than 1.4mil) can just barely take six proto swarms than a STD flaylock could rip me to pieces, something that costs much less than my tank both SP and ISK wise can easily kill me. AV nades just lol those things are way too over powered get the proto ones and get close to a tank and spam, don't complain that you can't kill a top tier tank w/ out damage mods using STD AV nades. You clearly have not driven tanks before because I have used AV and I know both sides off the story.
I have taken out expensive tanks using only STD gear, I took an AE tanker out this way. It is really simple get a STD min logi fit 1 proxy 1 RE and a nanohive. Determine the tanks route and where he's likely to go and place 4 tight proxies and 3 RE's than lie in wait. When the tank rolls by detonate the RE's and you will do 7,500 base damage factor in armor damage and you will do upwards of 10,000 damage and say he does survive 3 AV's and 3 SL volley's will surely kill him, want to kill a tank do it right. Just because you're a scrub and we are pro's does not mean we should get nerfed
Use team work don't complain you can't solo an expensive well built tank with low grade gear. Next patch LLAV's are being removed so they are literally nerfing our teamwork they haven't nerfed yours.
Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........
Tanker/Logi
Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have
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Benjamin Ciscko
The Generals
EoN.
182
|
Posted - 2013.11.10 02:54:00 -
[33] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Void Echo wrote:Atiim wrote:True Adamance wrote:AV= too easy right now
I like the proposed changes because that way we will see more vehicles on the maps. And tanks are difficult? Aside from redline AV and 2 idiots on high towers with IAFGs (who QQ about them simultaneously), tanks are quite possibly the easiest thing in the game right now. they are the hardest class to use in the game, if they were as easy as you say they are, 100% of dust would be using them you ******* idiot
- Infinite Ammo
- Near complete immunity to all but 3 infantry weapons in the entire game (REs don't count as weapons)
- Ability to fulfill multiple roles at the exact same time
- Requires an entire class to deal with.
The only reason why all of DUST doesn't use them is because of how expensive they are in comparison to dropsuits. The SP sink problem is a joke, It doesn't even take that much SP to get them running complete non-militia garbage. Well that, and some people find more excitement in doing things besides driving inside a giant steel box firing infinite rounds at enemies. Which is why I can't wait for the finite ammo system to come in, I'll finally have a reason to destroy Supply Depots in Matri/Caldari FW.
What good is unlimited ammo when you can't see the swarms or the swarmer let alone hit him.
FG's obliterate tanks SL's obliterate tanks PLC needs a buff and it's a weapon if it can be used to kill tanks.
by design
Common sense/ by design, you can also use a tank of your own to kill it fulfilling multiple rolls (BTW I can waffle stomp at least five of your best fit tanks at the same time)
Your complaining you can't take something out that costs more SP than you put in the counter. It doesn't take Much SP to run proto lets see IA FG 650k SP prof. V 342k ADV heavy roughly 1mil SP complex DMG mods roughly 1mil sp so for only about 3m SP you can destroy some who has invested millions more SP. Also those DMG mods will help out your HMG heavy and other suits your ADV suit will as well the mill I have in Large hybrid turrets doesn't apply any where else nor the SP in HAV command, armor adaptation, armor upgrades, repping, plates and the list goes on.
Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........
Tanker/Logi
Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have
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Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
1468
|
Posted - 2013.11.10 03:30:00 -
[34] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:What in the actual **** is wrong with you......... Truth hurts doesn't it?
You didn't get what I meant by that, did you?
'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!
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Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
1468
|
Posted - 2013.11.10 03:41:00 -
[35] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Woka II wrote:Traitor, you owe us tankers for some of your wins and if my gunloggi wasn't there that madruger woulda ripped your suit to shreds. And btw keep in mind swarm = LIGHT av weapon their damage should not be on par or greater than the forge gun ( forge gun = HEAVY av weapon). This is like saying a 40mm grenade launcher should deal the same destruction as a 120mm howitzer ( not literally) . Tell you what why don't you get a madruger or a gunloggi and see what happen when you have 3 guys even with standard swarms team up on you. You know why tankers are unhappy? We have to deal with dropships, enemy installations, rooftop forge gunners, enemy tanks, orbitals ( we basically have a bullseye on our tanks) and infantrymen who aren't gonna be happy until they solo a tank with militia swarm, like you said " they're tanks for heaven's sake" and a "tank" should not be crippled by a single soldier. Welcome to New Eden, where technology has evolved to allow Forge Guns to be equal to Swarm Launchers. By that same logi, we should re-do drop uplinks, as a PRO drop uplink shouldn't have the same capabilities as a CRU. My end goal is complete balance between the two. Problem is there are some tankers who want AV to be useless. I bet my life that no-one on this entire forum heck even CPMs and DEVs could post a link to a thread where I've said that I want vehicles removed from the game completely. A forge gun should be equal to a swarm launcher, that's called balance. And BTW, you owe AV for some of those win because if we didn't destroy those tanks, you would have gone pop! (Like most crappy tankers who think that simply driving a Madrugar should grant you god-like power and the ability to lock entire squads out of combat),
1: There will always be someone who thinks that vehicles should be useless as well. We should always ignore them.
2: Although I haven't seen you say that (yet), you do seem to lean towards the, "I want them to be pieces of ****" side of the spectrum.
3: Agreed, which is why the FG needs to be nerfed, so every AV'er doesn't just go FG in 1.7, which I'm sure will happen.
4: I'm sure you're not referring to me, as I've taken on more than 1 HAV solo and won.
'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
809
|
Posted - 2013.11.10 03:47:00 -
[36] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:
What good is unlimited ammo when you can't see the swarms or the swarmer let alone hit him.
FG's obliterate tanks SL's obliterate tanks PLC needs a buff and it's a weapon if it can be used to kill tanks.
by design
Common sense/ by design, you can also use a tank of your own to kill it fulfilling multiple rolls (BTW I can waffle stomp at least five of your best fit tanks at the same time)
Your complaining you can't take something out that costs more SP than you put in the counter. It doesn't take Much SP to run proto lets see IA FG 650k SP prof. V 342k ADV heavy roughly 1mil SP complex DMG mods roughly 1mil sp so for only about 3m SP you can destroy some who has invested millions more SP. Also those DMG mods will help out your HMG heavy and other suits your ADV suit will as well the mill I have in Large hybrid turrets doesn't apply any where else nor the SP in HAV command, armor adaptation, armor upgrades, repping, plates and the list goes on.
The invisible swarms is a glitch that can only be fixed by CCP. And it is a glitch so you can't blame the user for it. I'm not gonna fire a warning shot at you to see whether or not my swarms are invisible.
You make a lot of assumptions. And yeah It takes way more than 650k to get any weapon at level 5/prof 5. try again. The Grenadier skill, the core skills it takes to even have enough CPU/PG to run the gear and have room for complex damage mods, the range amplifiers, the skill for a dropsuit itself is a decent SP sink within itself.
Complaining about not being able to destroy tanks? Almost all of my corp members carry PRO AV, so not destroying a tank is something that rarely happens.
I currently have around an equal amount of SP invested into AV and Tanks, and that SP was so easy to gain. (If 2 weeks could be considered easy).
Won't help on anything else? I find that hilarious because my armor regeneration, transporting, shield boosters and shield transporters also work on my Limbus and soon to be dropship. All vehicles share the exact same core skills (save for a few maybe). The skills can be useful for more than one thing, it's just that many tankers only use it on one thing.
There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry
You'll still be useful in my eyes
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Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
1468
|
Posted - 2013.11.10 03:48:00 -
[37] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Atiim wrote:True Adamance wrote:AV= too easy right now
I like the proposed changes because that way we will see more vehicles on the maps. And tanks are difficult? Aside from redline AV and 2 idiots on high towers with IAFGs (who QQ about them simultaneously), tanks are quite possibly the easiest thing in the game right now. Atiim, I am not a fan of tanks, but I think the SL range nerf will be interesting, as for the damage nerf, tanks are being nerfed to, we will have to wait and try out for ourselves! Your right, SLs are getting a range nerf. Not saying that 400m was okay, but at 175m max range any dropship pilot will be invincible to SL users if they fly high enough. Damage nerf is okay, but what about PRO and ADV tanks? What then. I'm not hating or trying to bag on you, but I think that some of the AV nerfs were ridiculously stupid.
Maybe you don't understand this yet. Unlike your little infantry suit, we can't die lots of times and still make ISK. Most of the time, we can't even die once for several matches, or we won't make ISK. So dying is not in our best interests. You want us to get easily popped by AV, and I get that. But when our **** costs this much, it shouldn't happen. And it's not. Anyways, PROTO HAV's will cost a **** load if they ever come out (which I hope they don't), so if we do happen to lose 1, it will hurt. A lot. But if we have the necessary skills, it will take a good while to do so.
Anyways, I do think AV'ers are under rewarded, so damage WP's, and like a "you scared the vehicle off" WP systems for AV weapons only should be given.
'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!
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Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
1468
|
Posted - 2013.11.10 03:51:00 -
[38] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Void Echo wrote:Atiim wrote:True Adamance wrote:AV= too easy right now
I like the proposed changes because that way we will see more vehicles on the maps. And tanks are difficult? Aside from redline AV and 2 idiots on high towers with IAFGs (who QQ about them simultaneously), tanks are quite possibly the easiest thing in the game right now. they are the hardest class to use in the game, if they were as easy as you say they are, 100% of dust would be using them you ******* idiot Tell that to the nova knife scout and pretty much everyone not running ar. I mean I took a miltia tank and killed a DS and its crew, within 3mins, the reason most people don't do tanks is because they haven't skilled, but it sure as hell is not the hardest class in the game!
in terms of making a profit it is
'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!
|
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
809
|
Posted - 2013.11.10 04:02:00 -
[39] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:
Maybe you don't understand this yet. Unlike your little infantry suit, we can't die lots of times and still make ISK. Most of the time, we can't even die once for several matches, or we won't make ISK. So dying is not in our best interests. You want us to get easily popped by AV, and I get that. But when our **** costs this much, it shouldn't happen. And it's not. Anyways, PROTO HAV's will cost a **** load if they ever come out (which I hope they don't), so if we do happen to lose 1, it will hurt. A lot. But if we have the necessary skills, it will take a good while to do so.
Anyways, I do think AV'ers are under rewarded, so damage WP's, and like a "you scared the vehicle off" WP systems for AV weapons only should be given.
I have no problem with getting WP for "scaring off" a tank. Just as long as it is given properly as opposed to "You chased of a tank, here's 5 WP."
Currently it's winner takes all, leading to the "You must die at all costs" mentality.
And I personally think that tanks cost way too much to be viable in it's current state, and with the supposed price of ADV and PRO tanks you can bet your @$$ that most of the playerbase will stay them. This game needs to stop catering to rich vets with 2B ISK and focus on the other 90% of it's players. HAVs truly do need a price debuff.
And my strongest AV suit costs 1/2 of the price of my HAV, so I can't really afford to die that much either.
There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry
You'll still be useful in my eyes
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Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
1468
|
Posted - 2013.11.10 04:16:00 -
[40] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:
Maybe you don't understand this yet. Unlike your little infantry suit, we can't die lots of times and still make ISK. Most of the time, we can't even die once for several matches, or we won't make ISK. So dying is not in our best interests. You want us to get easily popped by AV, and I get that. But when our **** costs this much, it shouldn't happen. And it's not. Anyways, PROTO HAV's will cost a **** load if they ever come out (which I hope they don't), so if we do happen to lose 1, it will hurt. A lot. But if we have the necessary skills, it will take a good while to do so.
Anyways, I do think AV'ers are under rewarded, so damage WP's, and like a "you scared the vehicle off" WP systems for AV weapons only should be given.
I have no problem with getting WP for "scaring off" a tank. Just as long as it is given properly as opposed to "You chased of a tank, here's 5 WP." Currently it's winner takes all, leading to the "You must die at all costs" mentality. And I personally think that tanks cost way too much to be viable in it's current state, and with the supposed price of ADV and PRO tanks you can bet your @$$ that most of the playerbase will stay them. This game needs to stop catering to rich vets with 2B ISK and focus on the other 90% of it's players. HAVs truly do need a price debuff. And my strongest AV suit costs 1/2 of the price of my HAV, so I can't really afford to die that much either.
1: 5 wp's would be too low. It should be based off of how much WP's per hull size, and should give wp's based on that hull.
ex. you do 750-1000 damage to a HAV. You get 15-25 wp's. You do 250-500 damage to a LAV, you get 5-15 wp's
And you should be able to get a reward for it for at least 4 times before it hit a cap for a minute. Also, for the scaring away vehicle WP's if you damage a vehicle, for the damage WP's, and the pilot either recalls or doesn't get any WP's for a minute, you get whatever the hull's damage WP's is. That caps out for 2 minutes for that pilot
ex. You fire at a HAV, and damage it. you get 15-25 WP's. It retreats and recalls. You get a extra 15-25 WP's. He calls it back, and you fire at it again, same scenario happens, but this time, you don't get the scaring away WP's.
2: That must be a cheap and weak HAV. My proto Av suit costs 4-16x less than my HAV's.
'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!
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Monkey MAC
killer taxi company
General Tso's Alliance
948
|
Posted - 2013.11.10 12:12:00 -
[41] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Atiim wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:
Maybe you don't understand this yet. Unlike your little infantry suit, we can't die lots of times and still make ISK. Most of the time, we can't even die once for several matches, or we won't make ISK. So dying is not in our best interests. You want us to get easily popped by AV, and I get that. But when our **** costs this much, it shouldn't happen. And it's not. Anyways, PROTO HAV's will cost a **** load if they ever come out (which I hope they don't), so if we do happen to lose 1, it will hurt. A lot. But if we have the necessary skills, it will take a good while to do so.
Anyways, I do think AV'ers are under rewarded, so damage WP's, and like a "you scared the vehicle off" WP systems for AV weapons only should be given.
I have no problem with getting WP for "scaring off" a tank. Just as long as it is given properly as opposed to "You chased of a tank, here's 5 WP." Currently it's winner takes all, leading to the "You must die at all costs" mentality. And I personally think that tanks cost way too much to be viable in it's current state, and with the supposed price of ADV and PRO tanks you can bet your @$$ that most of the playerbase will stay them. This game needs to stop catering to rich vets with 2B ISK and focus on the other 90% of it's players. HAVs truly do need a price debuff. And my strongest AV suit costs 1/2 of the price of my HAV, so I can't really afford to die that much either. 1: 5 wp's would be too low. It should be based off of how much WP's per hull size, and should give wp's based on that hull. ex. you do 750-1000 damage to a HAV. You get 15-25 wp's. You do 250-500 damage to a LAV, you get 5-15 wp's And you should be able to get a reward for it for at least 4 times before it hit a cap for a minute. Also, for the scaring away vehicle WP's if you damage a vehicle, for the damage WP's, and the pilot either recalls or doesn't get any WP's for a minute, you get whatever the hull's damage WP's is. That caps out for 2 minutes for that pilot ex. You fire at a HAV, and damage it. you get 15-25 WP's. It retreats and recalls. You get a extra 15-25 WP's. He calls it back, and you fire at it again, same scenario happens, but this time, you don't get the scaring away WP's. 2: That must be a cheap and weak HAV. My proto Av suit costs 4-16x less than my HAV's.
I think 16x less is a bit of an exageration, we know you cost more, but what a lot of tankers forget, you might die once every few matches, but an infantry unit will die a few times every match, now a suit costs about 50,000+50,000+25,000+25,000+(6+ù5,000) ~ 200,000 per suit, there abouts now8w what that means in a public match if we die once, we pull in a profit of about 12,000 isk, but that is unlikely to happen. If we try to be AV for the majority of the match we can expect to die at least a dozen times, and half a dozen when we play as infantry.
The pen is mightier than the sword
The gun is mightier than both
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Benjamin Ciscko
The Generals
EoN.
184
|
Posted - 2013.11.10 16:30:00 -
[42] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Benjamin Ciscko wrote:
What good is unlimited ammo when you can't see the swarms or the swarmer let alone hit him.
FG's obliterate tanks SL's obliterate tanks PLC needs a buff and it's a weapon if it can be used to kill tanks.
by design
Common sense/ by design, you can also use a tank of your own to kill it fulfilling multiple rolls (BTW I can waffle stomp at least five of your best fit tanks at the same time)
Your complaining you can't take something out that costs more SP than you put in the counter. It doesn't take Much SP to run proto lets see IA FG 650k SP prof. V 342k ADV heavy roughly 1mil SP complex DMG mods roughly 1mil sp so for only about 3m SP you can destroy some who has invested millions more SP. Also those DMG mods will help out your HMG heavy and other suits your ADV suit will as well the mill I have in Large hybrid turrets doesn't apply any where else nor the SP in HAV command, armor adaptation, armor upgrades, repping, plates and the list goes on.
The invisible swarms is a glitch that can only be fixed by CCP. And it is a glitch so you can't blame the user for it. I'm not gonna fire a warning shot at you to see whether or not my swarms are invisible. You make a lot of assumptions. And yeah It takes way more than 650k to get any weapon at level 5/prof 5. try again. The Grenadier skill, the core skills it takes to even have enough CPU/PG to run the gear and have room for complex damage mods, the range amplifiers, the skill for a dropsuit itself is a decent SP sink within itself. Complaining about not being able to destroy tanks? Almost all of my corp members carry PRO AV, so not destroying a tank is something that rarely happens. I currently have around an equal amount of SP invested into AV and Tanks, and that SP was so easy to gain. (If 2 weeks could be considered easy). Won't help on anything else? I find that hilarious because my armor regeneration, transporting, shield boosters and shield transporters also work on my Limbus and soon to be dropship. All vehicles share the exact same core skills (save for a few maybe). The skills can be useful for more than one thing, it's just that many tankers only use it on one thing.
prof. V was a typo I meant prof. III, I'm almost certain you could drop some armor or a secondary or a grenade to fit the DMG mod, range amplifiers you have incredible range to begin with.
If your corp can easily destroy tanks why are you complaining?
Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........
Tanker/Logi
Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have
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Lorhak Gannarsein
572
|
Posted - 2013.11.10 16:48:00 -
[43] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:Woka II wrote:Traitor, you owe us tankers for some of your wins and if my gunloggi wasn't there that madruger woulda ripped your suit to shreds. And btw keep in mind swarm = LIGHT av weapon their damage should not be on par or greater than the forge gun ( forge gun = HEAVY av weapon). This is like saying a 40mm grenade launcher should deal the same destruction as a 120mm howitzer ( not literally) . Tell you what why don't you get a madruger or a gunloggi and see what happen when you have 3 guys even with standard swarms team up on you. You know why tankers are unhappy? We have to deal with dropships, enemy installations, rooftop forge gunners, enemy tanks, orbitals ( we basically have a bullseye on our tanks) and infantrymen who aren't gonna be happy until they solo a tank with militia swarm, like you said " they're tanks for heaven's sake" and a "tank" should not be crippled by a single soldier. Lets ignore that everything you listed infantry players have to worry about as well in addition to every other weapon in the game Lets ignore that there are many real world single man portable weapons capable of destroying a MBT since this is a game But lets focus on "One person should not be able to destroy a tank" Tell me why you think that, "Because its a tank" is not an answer Is it because of the SP investment? How about the fact that getting a weapon, modules, core skills and a frame to carry all that has a comparable cost but with more empty SP sinks with no benefit Is it the ISK cost? If so then please explain to me why you support pay to win Im all ears
Okay, too tired to read the rest, only care about the last sentence.
I think you misunderstand; most tankers run them cos it's fun. Not because it's a win button or whatever. I'd love to be in one all day long; it's my favourite thing to do in this game.
I can't, cos it's super expensive and consequently nigh-impossible to run a profit. Or even break even.
I would have been overjoyed at a buff to tank durability to bring it in line with cost (which is to say, possible to run a profit in) or alternatively, a series of nerfs and price drops that make it easy for AV to solo a tank, and cutting the price massively at the same time.
Ain't no pay-to-win except what you're putting in people's mouths.
But while I'm shelling out 700k just to play my preferred role (which translates to three matches or an hour, incidentally), I bloody well expect to be able to rip sh*t up.
Too busy clicking cookies to play DUST...
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CharCharOdell
1501
|
Posted - 2013.11.10 17:05:00 -
[44] - Quote
You're wrong. AV grenades and swarm launchers are LIGHT weapons and therefore, should be there for destroying LIGHT vehicles; NOT HAVS. THat is why we have a forge gun. If a forge gun kills a tank, then whatevs, it is a heavy weapon and the guy using it is a big, slow target who spent a lot more isk and sp to kill havs than the SL guy with yolo nades did.
Any lock on weapon should just be god awful, by comparison. They need this nerf.
Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ
Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó
Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
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Benjamin Ciscko
The Generals
EoN.
184
|
Posted - 2013.11.10 18:24:00 -
[45] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:Woka II wrote:Traitor, you owe us tankers for some of your wins and if my gunloggi wasn't there that madruger woulda ripped your suit to shreds. And btw keep in mind swarm = LIGHT av weapon their damage should not be on par or greater than the forge gun ( forge gun = HEAVY av weapon). This is like saying a 40mm grenade launcher should deal the same destruction as a 120mm howitzer ( not literally) . Tell you what why don't you get a madruger or a gunloggi and see what happen when you have 3 guys even with standard swarms team up on you. You know why tankers are unhappy? We have to deal with dropships, enemy installations, rooftop forge gunners, enemy tanks, orbitals ( we basically have a bullseye on our tanks) and infantrymen who aren't gonna be happy until they solo a tank with militia swarm, like you said " they're tanks for heaven's sake" and a "tank" should not be crippled by a single soldier. Lets ignore that everything you listed infantry players have to worry about as well in addition to every other weapon in the game Lets ignore that there are many real world single man portable weapons capable of destroying a MBT since this is a game But lets focus on "One person should not be able to destroy a tank" Tell me why you think that, "Because its a tank" is not an answer Is it because of the SP investment? How about the fact that getting a weapon, modules, core skills and a frame to carry all that has a comparable cost but with more empty SP sinks with no benefit Is it the ISK cost? If so then please explain to me why you support pay to win Im all ears
There are tanks that can shake off multiple RPG shots because the RPG is a light weapon and tanks are heavy vehicles.
Because it's a ******* video game and we are talking about balance and yes because it's also a tank.
It takes much more SP in tanks than it does AV 3mil AV is greater than 6mil+ tank
200k swarm suit is greater than 1.4mil tank.
Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........
Tanker/Logi
Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have
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pegasis prime
BIG BAD W0LVES
1255
|
Posted - 2013.11.10 18:40:00 -
[46] - Quote
do you know what I love about all the anti tank brigade. when they all proclaim to not really like vehicular combat or like vehicles being in a shooter .
Did any of these folks watch even 1 add that ccp released most if not all display a heaver vehicle presence than infantry. if they did watch these adds and see all these vehicles did they think oh my another game for me to go cry about ........ or did they watch it and think wow that looks f'cking awesome with tanks, drop ships and lavs all battling it out with infantry scattered between fighting on the front together.
if you watch any of the interwebs adds about dust they ALL have a heavy vehicular presence so its clear that ccp wanted them to be prominent on the field.... just my 0.2 isk
Its gone from suck .....to blow
level 1 forum warrior
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MUDFLAPS McGILLICUTTY
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
98
|
Posted - 2013.11.10 19:07:00 -
[47] - Quote
Canis Ferox wrote:
Anti Vehicle (AV) grenades are effective against Baby tanks*. But Mummy tanks just get angry and Daddy tanks..** (YEs I am taking this analogy all the way!) ...Daddy tanks just laugh in the face of a combined AV, swarm launcher assault, turn around and stomp you!
Discuss.
The "daddy" analogy is creepy.
Strong tanks require strong AV. It's as simple as that...
A high-end tank isn't going to splat instantly because some guy is shooting a Militia Swarm Launcher and throwing base AV nades.
However, Lai Dai packed AV + Wyrakomi Swarms will shred any current tank fit in seconds.
Considering AV grenades aren't their own specific tree and swarm launchers require very little SP to spec into, I really don't see what the problem is? I invested 15 million SP into vehicles, I don't understand how unskilled infantryman expect to be able to instantly counter that with little to nothing invested in AV? The way it is currently, one proto AV on a rooftop = GG for ALL vehicles. Seriously, AV grenades and swarm launchers are the only weapons in this game that you literally don't even need to be able to aim to use. Just get someone near on-target and the homing systems do the rest for you.
I seriously doubt 1.7 will become a tankfest. I consider 1.7 to be a huge nerf to tanks - look at the slots lost, ammo requirements, etc. They haven't even fixed the basic issues (distance rendering for drivers, invisible swarms, hit detection shield glitch) etc... Not to mention half of the new maps have supply depots that are either underground or on a roof - meaning you're just going to constantly have to recall and call in a new tank as you run out of ammo.
Which, all-in-all, doesn't really sound like much fun to me. |
Harpyja
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
754
|
Posted - 2013.11.10 19:19:00 -
[48] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Okay, too tired to read the rest, only care about the last sentence. I think you misunderstand; most tankers run them cos it's fun. Not because it's a win button or whatever. I'd love to be in one all day long; it's my favourite thing to do in this game. I can't, cos it's super expensive and consequently nigh-impossible to run a profit. Or even break even. I would have been overjoyed at a buff to tank durability to bring it in line with cost (which is to say, possible to run a profit in) or alternatively, a series of nerfs and price drops that make it easy for AV to solo a tank, and cutting the price massively at the same time. Ain't no pay-to-win except what you're putting in people's mouths. But while I'm shelling out 700k just to play my preferred role (which translates to three matches or an hour, incidentally), I bloody well expect to be able to rip sh*t up.
I'm just the same way. I don't use vehicles because I want them to be I-win buttons. I use vehicles because they are fun.
I enjoy flying my Python because it's fun and I like flying in FPS games like Dust, even though I may get 10-15 kills max while assaults on the ground get more. But it isn't fun when people shoot me down, not because I am a larger threat than any infantryman, but because of "Hey look, WPs." I've lost very few Pythons because I'm a rather decent pilot, but it's still hard to run positive due to their cost of nearly 1mil ISK and being rewarded up to 250k ISK, if not much less.
I also enjoyed flying my Eryx, simply because I am a mobile spawn point. I enjoyed hovering over objectives and have people spawn and drop and capture objectives. But, the problems of getting very low ISK rewards and blueberries that don't jump out forced me to stop flying my Eryx.
I enjoy roaming around in my missile Gunnlogi. I like to install fear into my enemy when I round a corner and fire my missiles at them. I don't want it to be an I-win button. However, I don't want it to be destroyed by one person with proto AV before I can even pull out. I want people to fear me like they did in the old days of Chromosome, and smile when good teamwork brought me down. Now I'm just a pinata full of ISK and WPs, waiting to get popped by a couple of assault suits with ARs, a nanohive, and some Lai Dai AV 'nades. Yes, AV 'nades hurt shield tanks as well, because our shield regen is terrible.
I don't enjoy sitting on the hills with my railgun Gunnlogi. I don't enjoy sitting near the enemy's red line for an entire match, waiting for an RDV to get called in. But this is what I must do so I can stay positive and run any of my other vehicles for fun.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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pegasis prime
BIG BAD W0LVES
1255
|
Posted - 2013.11.10 20:16:00 -
[49] - Quote
I just thought id come on here and leave these ads . everyone have a good watch at them and then decide what type of combat ccp had in mind did they wand ar 514 or Dust 514 just watch them and decide.
1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN58mesUkkY
2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZRty1OiSsE
3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shtFNDef9Rc
4) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPYY3sHCdXk
these are just some of the adds that are out there and again im going to point out how vehicular they appear to be yes they also include infantry but are heavily focused on vehicular combat.
Every time I see someone getting but hurt because of vehicles I just think wow did they even see any adds or look into what this game is about before coming hear to ruin it for every one. just bloody look at them CCP obviously wanted heavy vehicle presence on the battlefield just as much as infantry any one who watches these ads and signs up to dust only to get but hurt because of vehicles is just plain stupid and you can take that to the f'#cking bank
Its gone from suck .....to blow
level 1 forum warrior
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Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
1473
|
Posted - 2013.11.10 20:24:00 -
[50] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:Atiim wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:
Maybe you don't understand this yet. Unlike your little infantry suit, we can't die lots of times and still make ISK. Most of the time, we can't even die once for several matches, or we won't make ISK. So dying is not in our best interests. You want us to get easily popped by AV, and I get that. But when our **** costs this much, it shouldn't happen. And it's not. Anyways, PROTO HAV's will cost a **** load if they ever come out (which I hope they don't), so if we do happen to lose 1, it will hurt. A lot. But if we have the necessary skills, it will take a good while to do so.
Anyways, I do think AV'ers are under rewarded, so damage WP's, and like a "you scared the vehicle off" WP systems for AV weapons only should be given.
I have no problem with getting WP for "scaring off" a tank. Just as long as it is given properly as opposed to "You chased of a tank, here's 5 WP." Currently it's winner takes all, leading to the "You must die at all costs" mentality. And I personally think that tanks cost way too much to be viable in it's current state, and with the supposed price of ADV and PRO tanks you can bet your @$$ that most of the playerbase will stay them. This game needs to stop catering to rich vets with 2B ISK and focus on the other 90% of it's players. HAVs truly do need a price debuff. And my strongest AV suit costs 1/2 of the price of my HAV, so I can't really afford to die that much either. 1: 5 wp's would be too low. It should be based off of how much WP's per hull size, and should give wp's based on that hull. ex. you do 750-1000 damage to a HAV. You get 15-25 wp's. You do 250-500 damage to a LAV, you get 5-15 wp's And you should be able to get a reward for it for at least 4 times before it hit a cap for a minute. Also, for the scaring away vehicle WP's if you damage a vehicle, for the damage WP's, and the pilot either recalls or doesn't get any WP's for a minute, you get whatever the hull's damage WP's is. That caps out for 2 minutes for that pilot ex. You fire at a HAV, and damage it. you get 15-25 WP's. It retreats and recalls. You get a extra 15-25 WP's. He calls it back, and you fire at it again, same scenario happens, but this time, you don't get the scaring away WP's. 2: That must be a cheap and weak HAV. My proto Av suit costs 4-16x less than my HAV's. I think 16x less is a bit of an exageration, we know you cost more, but what a lot of tankers forget, you might die once every few matches, but an infantry unit will die a few times every match, now a suit costs about 50,000+50,000+25,000+25,000+(6+ù5,000) ~ 200,000 per suit, there abouts now8w what that means in a public match if we die once, we pull in a profit of about 12,000 isk, but that is unlikely to happen. If we try to be AV for the majority of the match we can expect to die at least a dozen times, and half a dozen when we play as infantry.
Nope. times 200k by 16. 1.6 mil ISK per HAV. I kid you not.
'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!
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Beld Errmon
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
1106
|
Posted - 2013.11.10 20:41:00 -
[51] - Quote
Tankers are wasting their breath trying to reason with the anti tank crowd, they've been molested by a tanker in the past and they won't rest till tanks are gone or OHK'd by militia swarms, they are terrible at their role and think its the tanks fault, while in PC i've seen 1 man with protoAV kill or drive off multiple tanks. |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
831
|
Posted - 2013.11.10 20:52:00 -
[52] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:Tankers are wasting their breath trying to reason with the anti tank crowd, they've been molested by a tanker in the past and they won't rest till tanks are gone or OHK'd by militia swarms, they are terrible at their role and think its the tanks fault, while in PC i've seen 1 man with protoAV kill or drive off multiple tanks.
I wouldn't consider myself as part of the Anti-Tank crowd, but I'll bite the apple anyway....
When have I ever said I want tanks to be OHKO'd by MLT swarms? When has anyone?
PRO AV is supposed to be super strong. Against PRO AV only the strongest of the the strong tanks should survive. It is PRO.
You assume that everyone here who's AV is bad at their role? You haven't even squared up with all of them (us).
As I've said before, I've never said nor implied that I want vehicles removed from the game. And I challenge anyone to state the contrary.
Don't resort to baseless claims and ad hominem. It just makes your arguments look weak.
There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry
You'll still be useful in my eyes
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
831
|
Posted - 2013.11.10 21:06:00 -
[53] - Quote
CharCharOdell wrote:You're wrong. AV grenades and swarm launchers are LIGHT weapons and therefore, should be there for destroying LIGHT vehicles; NOT HAVS. THat is why we have a forge gun. If a forge gun kills a tank, then whatevs, it is a heavy weapon and the guy using it is a big, slow target who spent a lot more isk and sp to kill havs than the SL guy with yolo nades did.
Any lock on weapon should just be god awful, by comparison. They need this nerf.
No you are wrong.
Forge Guns = Swarm Launchers is balance. Every class needs to be equal.
Forge Guns have the same SP investments as Swarm Launchers, so there is no greater SP investment for the slow moving target. ISK? IAFGs & iASLs cost the exact same.
So because it's bigger it should be better? Do you realize that I could use the exact same logic to justify TTK and why Scouts aren't viable right?
A lock isn't that good when the swarms crash into a wall 90% of the time. I honestly would prefer if Swarm Launchers were like predator missiles.
They need this nerf? They need to 99.9999999999% useless against good dropship pilots?
And what happens when the ADV and PRO tanks decide to crash the party? If it takes 3 people to take out a STD tank then how many should it take to destroy a PRO tank? An entire squad?
And the "But they will be super rare because they cost so much" argument is thrown out the window when most people have around 600m-2B ISK.
There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry
You'll still be useful in my eyes
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True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
4039
|
Posted - 2013.11.10 21:15:00 -
[54] - Quote
Atiim wrote:CharCharOdell wrote:You're wrong. AV grenades and swarm launchers are LIGHT weapons and therefore, should be there for destroying LIGHT vehicles; NOT HAVS. THat is why we have a forge gun. If a forge gun kills a tank, then whatevs, it is a heavy weapon and the guy using it is a big, slow target who spent a lot more isk and sp to kill havs than the SL guy with yolo nades did.
Any lock on weapon should just be god awful, by comparison. They need this nerf. No you are wrong. Forge Guns = Swarm Launchers is balance. Every class needs to be equal. Forge Guns have the same SP investments as Swarm Launchers, so there is no greater SP investment for the slow moving target. ISK? IAFGs & iASLs cost the exact same. So because it's bigger it should be better? Do you realize that I could use the exact same logic to justify TTK and why Scouts aren't viable right? A lock isn't that good when the swarms crash into a wall 90% of the time. I honestly would prefer if Swarm Launchers were like predator missiles. They need this nerf? They need to 99.9999999999% useless against good dropship pilots? And what happens when the ADV and PRO tanks decide to crash the party? If it takes 3 people to take out a STD tank then how many should it take to destroy a PRO tank? An entire squad? And the "But they will be super rare because they cost so much" argument is thrown out the window when most people have around 600m-2B ISK.
I don't disagree with you.... but I also don't disagree with Char....who know far more about vehicles than we ever will....
I think he is right though. Swarm launchers should be weapons designed to hit light vehicles hard and destroy them, the fast projectile velocity and homing nature make them idea light vehicle killers.
Just as the forge guns high alpha, long range make it the ideal HAV destroying device.
AS for AV grenades, I have made no attmpts to hide I think they are stupid, don't make sense and are broken as hell. I wish they'd just be removed.
"All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
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Canis Ferox
Ultramarine Corp
4
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Posted - 2013.11.11 08:55:00 -
[55] - Quote
Woka II wrote:You know why tankers are unhappy? We have to deal with dropships, enemy installations, rooftop forge gunners, enemy tanks, orbitals ( we basically have a bullseye on our tanks) and infantrymen who aren't gonna be happy until they solo a tank with militia swarm, like you said " they're tanks for heaven's sake" and a "tank" should not be crippled by a single soldier.
Firstly, thank you for your contribution. However, I am never grateful for any allied tanker's assistance. More often than not, you destroy installations which are valuable to me for strategic advantage. You also harvest kills, which leaves fewer enemies for me to engage with (which is kinda the point of playing). And I don't play to win, I don't play for SP and I certainly don't play for K/D.
I play to play.
Also, you're complaints are quite interesting; Tankers have to put up with enemy tanks? I can't even comment on that politely. And you have a massive bullseye printed on you because you have an unbalanced ability to kill everything in sight - we need to get you down as quickly as possible and as you have clearly pointed out - it takes a large number of the opposing team to tackle you. I don't mind that, it inspires team work, but if the guns don't work then we'll need the whole team switching to AV just to kill one player. |
dogmanpig
black market bank
33
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 08:58:00 -
[56] - Quote
i not going to get dragged into this nerf tanks thread, it only takes one av guy to kill any tank and if you can't then your a scrub.
You hate me, I hate you. Lets keep it that way.
Level 7 1/3 Forum alt.
"Its worth half a penny and a reach around"
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Monkey MAC
killer taxi company
General Tso's Alliance
956
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 10:12:00 -
[57] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:Atiim wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:
Maybe you don't understand this yet. Unlike your little infantry suit, we can't die lots of times and still make ISK. Most of the time, we can't even die once for several matches, or we won't make ISK. So dying is not in our best interests. You want us to get easily popped by AV, and I get that. But when our **** costs this much, it shouldn't happen. And it's not. Anyways, PROTO HAV's will cost a **** load if they ever come out (which I hope they don't), so if we do happen to lose 1, it will hurt. A lot. But if we have the necessary skills, it will take a good while to do so.
Anyways, I do think AV'ers are under rewarded, so damage WP's, and like a "you scared the vehicle off" WP systems for AV weapons only should be given.
I have no problem with getting WP for "scaring off" a tank. Just as long as it is given properly as opposed to "You chased of a tank, here's 5 WP." Currently it's winner takes all, leading to the "You must die at all costs" mentality. And I personally think that tanks cost way too much to be viable in it's current state, and with the supposed price of ADV and PRO tanks you can bet your @$$ that most of the playerbase will stay them. This game needs to stop catering to rich vets with 2B ISK and focus on the other 90% of it's players. HAVs truly do need a price debuff. And my strongest AV suit costs 1/2 of the price of my HAV, so I can't really afford to die that much either. 1: 5 wp's would be too low. It should be based off of how much WP's per hull size, and should give wp's based on that hull. ex. you do 750-1000 damage to a HAV. You get 15-25 wp's. You do 250-500 damage to a LAV, you get 5-15 wp's And you should be able to get a reward for it for at least 4 times before it hit a cap for a minute. Also, for the scaring away vehicle WP's if you damage a vehicle, for the damage WP's, and the pilot either recalls or doesn't get any WP's for a minute, you get whatever the hull's damage WP's is. That caps out for 2 minutes for that pilot ex. You fire at a HAV, and damage it. you get 15-25 WP's. It retreats and recalls. You get a extra 15-25 WP's. He calls it back, and you fire at it again, same scenario happens, but this time, you don't get the scaring away WP's. 2: That must be a cheap and weak HAV. My proto Av suit costs 4-16x less than my HAV's. I think 16x less is a bit of an exageration, we know you cost more, but what a lot of tankers forget, you might die once every few matches, but an infantry unit will die a few times every match, now a suit costs about 50,000+50,000+25,000+25,000+(6+ù5,000) ~ 200,000 per suit, there abouts now8w what that means in a public match if we die once, we pull in a profit of about 12,000 isk, but that is unlikely to happen. If we try to be AV for the majority of the match we can expect to die at least a dozen times, and half a dozen when we play as infantry. Nope. times 200k by 16. 1.6 mil ISK per HAV. I kid you not.
200k x 16 = 3.2mil, might wanna check you maths
200k x 8 = 1.6mil.
So a light aver can die 7 times and still be better of than you, assuming the same av dogs you every match making it his sole goal to kill you.
If he manages to kill you every match without dieing 8 times, then I will hire him for my squad, because he is either the hero unit of av, or he will want a squad to watch his back. Because I guarantee when I go AV in an advanced suit, I have to wait for the tank to come to me, behind my friendly offensive lines.
So please stop whining, the tank is the easiest to make money if you know what you are doing, take a friend in a lav for extra reps, butcher a load of people, take in more money than your infantry counterparts, die less than your infantry counterparts.
You wanna find a way that makes you almost no money, try a 180K proto scout without a scanner, you pull in approx 160K a match and die at least 3 dozen times on a bad day.
The pen is mightier than the sword
The gun is mightier than both
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Monkey MAC
killer taxi company
General Tso's Alliance
956
|
Posted - 2013.11.11 10:14:00 -
[58] - Quote
Canis Ferox wrote:Woka II wrote:You know why tankers are unhappy? We have to deal with dropships, enemy installations, rooftop forge gunners, enemy tanks, orbitals ( we basically have a bullseye on our tanks) and infantrymen who aren't gonna be happy until they solo a tank with militia swarm, like you said " they're tanks for heaven's sake" and a "tank" should not be crippled by a single soldier. Firstly, thank you for your contribution. However, I am never grateful for any allied tanker's assistance. More often than not, you destroy installations which are valuable to me for strategic advantage. You also harvest kills, which leaves fewer enemies for me to engage with (which is kinda the point of playing). And I don't play to win, I don't play for SP and I certainly don't play for K/D. I play to play. Also, you're complaints are quite interesting; Tankers have to put up with enemy tanks? I can't even comment on that politely. And you have a massive bullseye printed on you because you have an unbalanced ability to kill everything in sight - we need to get you down as quickly as possible and as you have clearly pointed out - it takes a large number of the opposing team to tackle you. I don't mind that, it inspires team work, but if the guns don't work then we'll need the whole team switching to AV just to kill one player.
You'll end up with what I have seen so many times already, bring proto av, or go home!
The pen is mightier than the sword
The gun is mightier than both
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Woka II
Ultramarine Corp
3
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 03:31:00 -
[59] - Quote
Canis Ferox wrote:Woka II wrote:You know why tankers are unhappy? We have to deal with dropships, enemy installations, rooftop forge gunners, enemy tanks, orbitals ( we basically have a bullseye on our tanks) and infantrymen who aren't gonna be happy until they solo a tank with militia swarm, like you said " they're tanks for heaven's sake" and a "tank" should not be crippled by a single soldier. Firstly, thank you for your contribution. However, I am never grateful for any allied tanker's assistance. More often than not, you destroy installations which are valuable to me for strategic advantage. You also harvest kills, which leaves fewer enemies for me to engage with (which is kinda the point of playing). And I don't play to win, I don't play for SP and I certainly don't play for K/D. I play to play. Also, you're complaints are quite interesting; Tankers have to put up with enemy tanks? I can't even comment on that politely. And you have a massive bullseye printed on you because you have an unbalanced ability to kill everything in sight - we need to get you down as quickly as possible and as you have clearly pointed out - it takes a large number of the opposing team to tackle you. I don't mind that, it inspires team work, but if the guns don't work then we'll need the whole team switching to AV just to kill one player.
Your "strategic positions" brings more harm to your own teammates than good. "OMG A TURRET I SHOULD HACK IT!!! *2 minutes later* enemy hacks it and shoots down a friendly dropship. And if I don't blow it up, an enemy will, idk bout you but my team's success matters more to me than an enemy's so if I can ill take the 100 wp and add onto an orbital that could change the flow of the battle, ill blast it rather than leave a piece of crap installation that's gonna get targeted by friendlies and enemies. Also unbalanced ability to kill my ass, if you can't take tank out with 3 ppl or less, you suck. Y'all already got tanks nerfed after chromosome because you didn't have the coordination back then and you sure as hell don't have it now ( considering that you claim a piece of useless tin has an unbalanced ability to kill) . And honestly when was the last you saw an installation take down a tank. And yes we have to deal with enemy tanks y'all give up when you can't kill a well fit tank with a militia swarm launcher.
P.S if it takes you an entire team to take down a gunloggi, you deserve to die considering how weak a gunloggi is. |
Canis Ferox
Ultramarine Corp
5
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 10:06:00 -
[60] - Quote
dogmanpig wrote:i not going to get dragged into this nerf tanks thread, it only takes one av guy to kill any tank and if you can't then your a scrub.
Thank you for your heart-felt contribution dogpigman and welcome to the debate at large, the one you're not getting dragged into. Well done.
=] |
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