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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
316
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Posted - 2013.12.11 14:51:00 -
[91] - Quote
Lazy Scumbag wrote:All they needed to change was the pricing. Tanks were already invincible versus infantry, and helpless against AV. Thought that was the point. Now we have purpose built weapons at proto level that are at best, a minor annoyance to HAVs. The problem was that the loss of an HAV required too much time grinding to replace it.
You are right pricing was one great issue but it seems balancing for CCP is an all or nothing attempt. If they nerf they nerf pretty hard and if they buff they buff very hard. In the case of AV vs Vehicles they did both buffed Vehicles and nerfed AV thats why we have the current mess.
But at least RE's are an alternative to some degree... |
Justicar Karnellia
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement
Caldari State
228
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Posted - 2013.12.11 15:04:00 -
[92] - Quote
Slag Emberforge wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Slag Emberforge wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:OP is wrong
Balance has been achieved
FG is the hard vehicle counter, tank v tank is the main way
Get gud Says the tank scrub. But hey, I guess AV weapons should only tickle tanks? Should we be shooting poultry out if our forge guns? it's about as effective as that ATM, that is if you don't die during that increased spool time. Vehicle vs vehicle counter is not effective, we heard no end to the crying that tower forges could only be countered by other forgers, yet you defend that only tanks should kill tanks? You sire are a hypocrite of the worst sort. FG are still very effective I dunno what you are doing? oh hang on yes i do your trying to solo vehicles again Vehicle vs vehicle is very effective, i have done it a fair few times Tower forge controled 100% of the map with just 1 person and did clear all and every vehicle with ease, now vehicles have some teeth and survivabilty they are now classed as UP Get gud scrub 1. FG have the capacity to take out HAVs that does not mean they are effective or efficient. 2. V vs AV. Has to be 1 to 1 or you generate an empirical advantage similar to having more players on one side than the other, this is not balance. ...
Exactly... it's not really hard to understand. If the only hard counter to a tank is another tank OR you need a numerical AV advantage, then the people with the most Tanks win - simple. It changes the dynamics of the game. I can guarantee you CCP don't want their game turning into Tanks 514. If they did, they'd remove the vehicle limit. If they let things stand the way they are, you can guarantee everyone will be speccing into Tanks. I'm sure some people are thinking about it right now after being steamrolled. |
pegasis prime
BIG BAD W0LVES
1409
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Posted - 2013.12.11 15:24:00 -
[93] - Quote
ill give my feed back on gunlogis as when 1.7 hit I maxed everything shield wise and turret wise so my feed back will only come from the high end hav perspective.
first off the modules
shield hardners - I only run complex for their active time and lower turn over cycle. now I think the 60% damage reduction is fine at complex level but feel the damage reduction should be lessened for the lower mods say 55% at adv and 50% at std. keeping all cooldowns in place this would balance the modules out. Now shield hardeners might seem op if you are engaging a tank while they are active but the max they will run for is about 42 seconds and cool down for 45 seconds so you have plenty of opportunity to destroy the hav when it reaches cool down and having a slightly less active time balances this out.
Shield boosters - Absolutely fantastic they give just enough hp over the right time period for burst tanking, any less they'd be useless any more they'd be op. over all they give just a little more hp than pre 1.7 but over a much shorter period.
shield extenders- Shield extenders in particular the heavy ones are nice for buffering fire while you make your cool down run but once your hardeners are on it doesn't matter if you have 2000 shields or 4000 shields as the damage is absorbed by the hardeners but youll be thankfull of them when your on cooldown.
damage mods- wow really pack a punch, no really they do
Ammo cashe- works as intended gives you that little bit more staying power before you need to resupply.
pg upgrades - work as intended
Turrets
Large missile - brilliant weapon with excellent burst damage capabilities but with the long reload times it really is a hit and run turret.
Large blasters - Work quite similarly to pre1.7 with better hit detection and
Rails- love them but their anti infantry power has been severely reduced unless you have higher ground.
now tanks have been through a major over haul and well see a lot of different fits on the field . tank battles now no longer have 2 tanks roll up and just shoot until the other is dead it takes allot to out tank another tank now but it can be done. AV vrs tanks ive found forge guns still pack a punch and will cut through shield hardners as will plasma cannons surprisingly enough , swarms wont even dent your shields when your hardeners are active but will destroy you quicker than a forge once your on cool down. over all tank combat has been awesome and I have lost a few tanks to av but more tanks to other tanks I hope the fights iv been having over the past day carry on.
Its gone from suck .....to blow
level 1 forum warrior
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Tac Com
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
82
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Posted - 2013.12.11 18:22:00 -
[94] - Quote
To add to what pegasis wrote, there is a big component that is being overlooked which our squad employed to great effectiveness. That is the use of teamwork with the tanks. HAVs are mostly being used as solo machines but last night we had a 2-3 guys (including myself) which proceeded to clean house.
The first was using a tank combination which very much mimics the old infantry combo of a sniper spotter and your ground forces. So we had a tank (blaster or missile) which did the close engagements, but a rail tank up high to spot targets and cover the other tank. This extra firepower typically resulted in both our tanks surviving the match while getting multiple tank kills.
The other which is even more overlooked now due to turrets being removable, is having someone in a small turret. With a blaster tank, we preferred to have a small rail on the top turret only. This small turret does a respectable amount of DPS and helps to provide some long range cover to an otherwise short range tank. Again, playing in this configuration, we went 12/1 in tank K/D over 2 matches.
The role of AV though has clearly shifted. To kill any tank, whether it's TvT or IvT, you need multiple people to reliably kill the tank. That said though, you need only one to reliably deny the tank area presence. We've had to back out of many fights due to a well placed swarm or forge user as continuing to press on would have resulted in our deaths. This left our squad without vehicle support and other tank at the time did clean them up. In many ways, even if you don't kill the tank, keeping the tank out of the fight is also a big win for your team and doesn't take a lot of people to do.
I'll be testing more stuff out tonight. Until then... |
Jacques Cayton II
Providence Guard
Templis Dragonaors
264
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Posted - 2013.12.11 18:34:00 -
[95] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:What in the actual **** is wrong with you.........
Tanks were balanced but they were only STANDARD FRAMES you guys still have ADV & PROTO now it's just poop imagine a surya or a sagaris now
We fight for the future of the State not our
personal goals
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Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division
Top Men.
329
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Posted - 2013.12.11 19:08:00 -
[96] - Quote
I call a buff to soma turning speed, and make the sica's base shield recharge delay higher.
Rails on a sica is fun as hell, and the ability to take a forge hit and say 'holy **** activate hardener and roll out!' Is beter than 'oh shi-'
Hp wise i love it. Mobility moght be too high ATM though.
Under 28db
Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14)
I haz knife. Me get steak?
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8213
BIG BAD W0LVES
1031
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Posted - 2013.12.12 03:18:00 -
[97] - Quote
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand Tanks and their counterpart AV have become broken even more... ... ...
"You're 47,000 ISK Swarm shouldn't be able to take down my tank. My tank costs the price of 5 of your AV dropsuit fittings!"
Well now tankers know what it's like to rule the map in a tank that costs less than a dropsuit fitting.
Tankers wanted their investment protect. Now they have no investment and insane protection...
Good job tanks, you got what you wanted. Now we should all enjoy it until its gets nerfed to the ground so hard, you'll be begging for your 1.6 HAV settings to come back (which were more than adequate btw) and still not getting the core mechanics fixed... |
chase rowland
The Enclave Syndicate
Dark Taboo
112
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Posted - 2013.12.12 14:09:00 -
[98] - Quote
8213 wrote:Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand Tanks and their counterpart AV have become broken even more... ... ...
"You're 47,000 ISK Swarm shouldn't be able to take down my tank. My tank costs the price of 5 of your AV dropsuit fittings!"
Well now tankers know what it's like to rule the map in a tank that costs less than a dropsuit fitting.
Tankers wanted their investment protect. Now they have no investment and insane protection...
Good job tanks, you got what you wanted. Now we should all enjoy it until its gets nerfed to the ground so hard, you'll be begging for your 1.6 HAV settings to come back (which were more than adequate btw) and still not getting the core mechanics fixed...
hmm so its either have a tank that's near useless and cost a fortune or have a tank that's actually viable and costs as much as a derpsuit.... I wonder what to pick? really dude? how about we nerf everything you got to uselessness for a year? asshol3 |
Slag Emberforge
Immortal Retribution
261
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Posted - 2013.12.12 14:26:00 -
[99] - Quote
chase rowland wrote:8213 wrote:Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand Tanks and their counterpart AV have become broken even more... ... ...
"You're 47,000 ISK Swarm shouldn't be able to take down my tank. My tank costs the price of 5 of your AV dropsuit fittings!"
Well now tankers know what it's like to rule the map in a tank that costs less than a dropsuit fitting.
Tankers wanted their investment protect. Now they have no investment and insane protection...
Good job tanks, you got what you wanted. Now we should all enjoy it until its gets nerfed to the ground so hard, you'll be begging for your 1.6 HAV settings to come back (which were more than adequate btw) and still not getting the core mechanics fixed... hmm so its either have a tank that's near useless and cost a fortune or have a tank that's actually viable and costs as much as a derpsuit.... I wonder what to pick? really dude? how about we nerf everything you got to uselessness for a year? asshol3
If tanks were useless for you in 1.6 you are a scrub, serious tankers had no problem being competitive and good tankers rarely died unless there were multiple AV on the other side, or the tanker had gotten careless.
It was mostly militia scrubs that I blew up every match, admittedly I have destroyed many tanks, but they still had the ability to kill me as well. It was COMPETITIVE. Not like this completely one sided bullshit it is now.
Also please stifle your allegations, heavies have been mistreated and nerfed since chromosome. |
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