DUST Search - "The HAVs and the HAV-nots." HAV, Tank, AV grenade, Swarm launcher dis...

Atiim wrote:

Woka II wrote:

Traitor, you owe us tankers for some of your wins and if my gunloggi wasn't there that madruger woulda ripped your suit to shreds. And btw keep in mind swarm = LIGHT av weapon their damage should not be on par or greater than the forge gun ( forge gun = HEAVY av weapon). This is like saying a 40mm grenade launcher should deal the same destruction as a 120mm howitzer ( not literally) . Tell you what why don't you get a madruger or a gunloggi and see what happen when you have 3 guys even with standard swarms team up on you. You know why tankers are unhappy? We have to deal with dropships, enemy installations, rooftop forge gunners, enemy tanks, orbitals ( we basically have a bullseye on our tanks) and infantrymen who aren't gonna be happy until they solo a tank with militia swarm, like you said " they're tanks for heaven's sake" and a "tank" should not be crippled by a single soldier.

Welcome to New Eden, where technology has evolved to allow Forge Guns to be equal to Swarm Launchers. By that same logi, we should re-do drop uplinks, as a PRO drop uplink shouldn't have the same capabilities as a CRU.

My end goal is complete balance between the two. Problem is there are some tankers who want AV to be useless. I bet my life that no-one on this entire forum heck even CPMs and DEVs could post a link to a thread where I've said that I want vehicles removed from the game completely.

A forge gun should be equal to a swarm launcher, that's called balance.

And BTW, you owe AV for some of those win because if we didn't destroy those tanks, you would have gone pop! (Like most crappy tankers who think that simply driving a Madrugar should grant you god-like power and the ability to lock entire squads out of combat),

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Canis Ferox Ultramarine Corp 1	Posted - 2013.11.09 22:27:00 - [1] - Quote Gentlemen. Let's get this all out in the open so we can look at the arguments clearly. I want everyone here to openly express how they feel about possessing an Heavy Attack Vehicle (HAV, tank) or being endlessly owned by tanks. About being stung by lazily flung AV grenades and about watching your swarm launcher missiles ping like popping candy off the armour of a seething enemy juggernaut. And brothers, let me make clear my bias, please: I hate tanks. - I love watching them burn. I love to stand on a dark night out in the wastes with a smoking SL in my hand, listening to enemy clones fizz and crackle while they slow-roast in the pouring black, oily smoke of a tank's carcass; - a warm glow on my face and a cheer in my heart. And why shouldn't I? I'm an infantryman, they mess my game up. I don't really mind them being there, it's just EveryThing I have to kill them is ineffective. Let's start with turrets. Noone ever talks about turrets vs tanks, but they are there, on the battlefield. The only purpose I've seen them put to is collecting war points; which, by the way, should be cut out immediately. Swarm Launchers (SL), bounce. They should lock on to heavies because at least they'd be worth using. I know that prototype (pt.) SL do actually kill tanks and tear apart dropships, but we're not talking about dropships (understand?). Anti Vehicle (AV) grenades are effective against Baby tanks. But Mummy tanks just get angry and Daddy tanks..* (YEs I am taking this analogy all the way!) ...Daddy tanks just laugh in the face of a combined AV, swarm launcher assault, turn around and stomp you! [Here I am referring to Militia HAV.. Such as an armour-tanked Gunnlogi with arma-rep'er] HAVs are not OP. High SP, super ISK tanks should not deal any less damage. They shouldnGÇÖt have less armour, I donGÇÖt think, they are tanks for heavenGÇÖs sake. But hereGÇÖs the point I am making: Anti Vehicle grenades and Swarm Launchers are ANTI-Tank. So they should be able to destroy tanks or do significant damage. IF YOUR argument as an inexperience tank driver (I donGÇÖt hear any pros complaining, do you?) is that GÇ£Anti VehicleGÇ¥ weapons, which force the user to abandon hopes at attacking or defending himself against other infantry, which highlight that players position and weaponry choice gloriously, which waste so much time in changing fits, avoiding enemies and chasing fast tanks around the map on foot and abandoned LAVsGÇª then your argument is plainly wrong sir and you should face the facts that proposed v1.7 nerfing of AV will certainly result in a surge of tank-filled matches and the total inability of anyone to deal with even the lowest tank drivers - who are the ones lobbying to turn Dust into one of those hacked matches HALO combat evolved that only drunk people played!* *I am describing an idiot and if youGÇÖre wondering whether or not thatGÇÖs you then I canGÇÖt tell you that it is. Discuss.
Harpyja Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 750	Posted - 2013.11.09 22:39:00 - [2] - Quote I just want to point out that turrets are not useless in the right hands. I've been able to take out many HAVs using blaster and railgun turret installations. And not all of them were militia either. And almost all of the turrets I used were nowhere near the redlines and gave the enemy HAV a fighting chance of killing me. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 1466	Posted - 2013.11.09 22:48:00 - [3] - Quote What in the actual **** is wrong with you......... 'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 796	Posted - 2013.11.09 22:53:00 - [4] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: What in the actual **** is wrong with you......... Truth hurts doesn't it? There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 2326	Posted - 2013.11.09 22:53:00 - [5] - Quote Theres some actual sense buried in that rambling Now we wait to hear tankers defend pay to win Im not drunk, the planet just happens to be especially wobbly today.
Robocop Junior The Surrogates Of War 328	Posted - 2013.11.09 22:54:00 - [6] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: What in the actual **** is wrong with you......... Lol thread wasn't worth reading til that part thanks.
Beld Errmon The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1099	Posted - 2013.11.09 22:54:00 - [7] - Quote Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 796	Posted - 2013.11.09 22:56:00 - [8] - Quote I kinda agree with you but at the same time I want to slap you in the face and ask "WTF is your problem"? I hate using both things sometimes. There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes
Void Echo 2127	Posted - 2013.11.09 23:02:00 - [9] - Quote Atiim wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: What in the actual **** is wrong with you......... Truth hurts doesn't it? pilots are still the only thing keeping you from turning this game into another call of duty. Youtube Closed Beta Vet Level 2.1 Forum Warrior
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 943	Posted - 2013.11.09 23:06:00 - [10] - Quote A tank discussion? Sure, I'll give you my view! I know there people who don't agree with it, who misconstrued it, and those who outright hate it, lookimg at you spike. I believe that no vehicle, no matter it be a LAV, MAV, HAV, LAAV, MAAV or HAAV should as a standalone unit, should not be worth any more than its equivalent infantry unit! To be clear 1tank without support should not be worth more than 1 heavy without support! This is best seen in the LDS, a dropship is primarily a troop transport and infantry/vehicle support! Now a LDS not either repping a tank, transporting troops or supportting troops on the ground, is pretty useless, its weaponry isn't much help on a battlefield! But if a dropship works with a squad, that squad has rapid transport, the squad can be in more places when they need to be, making them mkre effective. Vehicles should make your infantry better, it should not be a standalone elite unit! The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both

Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 796	Posted - 2013.11.09 23:07:00 - [11] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Atiim wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: What in the actual **** is wrong with you......... Truth hurts doesn't it? pilots are still the only thing keeping you from turning this game into another call of duty. (Ok I'm fed up with this, please stop using excess line breaks in your posts.) Really? I thought the mass diversity and the fact that everyone isn't a tryhard KD/R scrub is what kept this from becoming a CoD clone. You give yourself way too much credit. And it's AV that prevents this from becoming TANK 514. And I expect a new release of "Wirykomi" 514 in the next update. There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4033	Posted - 2013.11.09 23:07:00 - [12] - Quote AV= too easy right now I like the proposed changes because that way we will see more vehicles on the maps. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Fist Groinpunch Goonfeet Top Men. 140	Posted - 2013.11.09 23:10:00 - [13] - Quote My problem with tanks is that they are a force multiplier for the one person driving them only. It's the same as with a dropsuit. A highly skilled player in a starter fit is one thing. That same highly skilled player in a pimped out proto suit is quite another. A highly skilled player in a tank? Downright invincible. But CCP seems set on having tanks needing several players to take out. So while the tank driver is in full control of his entire tank, and will be even more in control once vehicle locks are in, AV players will have to rely on each other in order to take out the tank. So while the grizzled veteran with 20k+ SP in tanks alone trundles along blowing up one red after another, completely effective and self-reliant and in full control of his death machine, AV players will have to somehow band together and coordinate to take him out. It's one thing when there are organized squads facing the tank driver. But it's totally another when it's a mishmash of NPC corp pubbies that don't squad up and only have that AV starter fit. I remember tank drivers complaining about dumb pubbies in their turrets. Pubbies that would spend the entire round shooting at the MCC with the secondary turret, etc. Well, guess what, CCP says that these are the same pubbies I have to rely on when trying to take out a tank with my swarm launcher. That limits my ability to blow up the tank. I may be the best swarms operator in the game, but if none of my teammates choose to engage the tank, I won't be able to win. The tank driver doesn't have that problem. He is always effective. it's frustrating. Not looking forward to 1.7
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 796	Posted - 2013.11.09 23:12:00 - [14] - Quote True Adamance wrote: AV= too easy right now I like the proposed changes because that way we will see more vehicles on the maps. And tanks are difficult? Aside from redline AV and 2 idiots on high towers with IAFGs (who QQ about them simultaneously), tanks are quite possibly the easiest thing in the game right now. There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes
Woka II Ultramarine Corp 2	Posted - 2013.11.09 23:13:00 - [15] - Quote Traitor, you owe us tankers for some of your wins and if my gunloggi wasn't there that madruger woulda ripped your suit to shreds. And btw keep in mind swarm = LIGHT av weapon their damage should not be on par or greater than the forge gun ( forge gun = HEAVY av weapon). This is like saying a 40mm grenade launcher should deal the same destruction as a 120mm howitzer ( not literally) . Tell you what why don't you get a madruger or a gunloggi and see what happen when you have 3 guys even with standard swarms team up on you. You know why tankers are unhappy? We have to deal with dropships, enemy installations, rooftop forge gunners, enemy tanks, orbitals ( we basically have a bullseye on our tanks) and infantrymen who aren't gonna be happy until they solo a tank with militia swarm, like you said " they're tanks for heaven's sake" and a "tank" should not be crippled by a single soldier.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 943	Posted - 2013.11.09 23:24:00 - [16] - Quote Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: AV= too easy right now I like the proposed changes because that way we will see more vehicles on the maps. And tanks are difficult? Aside from redline AV and 2 idiots on high towers with IAFGs (who QQ about them simultaneously), tanks are quite possibly the easiest thing in the game right now. Atiim, I am not a fan of tanks, but I think the SL range nerf will be interesting, as for the damage nerf, tanks are being nerfed to, we will have to wait and try out for ourselves! The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 2329	Posted - 2013.11.09 23:24:00 - [17] - Quote Woka II wrote: Traitor, you owe us tankers for some of your wins and if my gunloggi wasn't there that madruger woulda ripped your suit to shreds. And btw keep in mind swarm = LIGHT av weapon their damage should not be on par or greater than the forge gun ( forge gun = HEAVY av weapon). This is like saying a 40mm grenade launcher should deal the same destruction as a 120mm howitzer ( not literally) . Tell you what why don't you get a madruger or a gunloggi and see what happen when you have 3 guys even with standard swarms team up on you. You know why tankers are unhappy? We have to deal with dropships, enemy installations, rooftop forge gunners, enemy tanks, orbitals ( we basically have a bullseye on our tanks) and infantrymen who aren't gonna be happy until they solo a tank with militia swarm, like you said " they're tanks for heaven's sake" and a "tank" should not be crippled by a single soldier. Lets ignore that everything you listed infantry players have to worry about as well in addition to every other weapon in the game Lets ignore that there are many real world single man portable weapons capable of destroying a MBT since this is a game But lets focus on "One person should not be able to destroy a tank" Tell me why you think that, "Because its a tank" is not an answer Is it because of the SP investment? How about the fact that getting a weapon, modules, core skills and a frame to carry all that has a comparable cost but with more empty SP sinks with no benefit Is it the ISK cost? If so then please explain to me why you support pay to win Im all ears Im not drunk, the planet just happens to be especially wobbly today.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 797	Posted - 2013.11.09 23:26:00 - [18] - Quote Woka II wrote: Traitor, you owe us tankers for some of your wins and if my gunloggi wasn't there that madruger woulda ripped your suit to shreds. And btw keep in mind swarm = LIGHT av weapon their damage should not be on par or greater than the forge gun ( forge gun = HEAVY av weapon). This is like saying a 40mm grenade launcher should deal the same destruction as a 120mm howitzer ( not literally) . Tell you what why don't you get a madruger or a gunloggi and see what happen when you have 3 guys even with standard swarms team up on you. You know why tankers are unhappy? We have to deal with dropships, enemy installations, rooftop forge gunners, enemy tanks, orbitals ( we basically have a bullseye on our tanks) and infantrymen who aren't gonna be happy until they solo a tank with militia swarm, like you said " they're tanks for heaven's sake" and a "tank" should not be crippled by a single soldier. Welcome to New Eden, where technology has evolved to allow Forge Guns to be equal to Swarm Launchers. By that same logi, we should re-do drop uplinks, as a PRO drop uplink shouldn't have the same capabilities as a CRU. My end goal is complete balance between the two. Problem is there are some tankers who want AV to be useless. I bet my life that no-one on this entire forum heck even CPMs and DEVs could post a link to a thread where I've said that I want vehicles removed from the game completely. A forge gun should be equal to a swarm launcher, that's called balance. And BTW, you owe AV for some of those win because if we didn't destroy those tanks, you would have gone pop! (Like most crappy tankers who think that simply driving a Madrugar should grant you god-like power and the ability to lock entire squads out of combat), There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 797	Posted - 2013.11.09 23:30:00 - [19] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: AV= too easy right now I like the proposed changes because that way we will see more vehicles on the maps. And tanks are difficult? Aside from redline AV and 2 idiots on high towers with IAFGs (who QQ about them simultaneously), tanks are quite possibly the easiest thing in the game right now. Atiim, I am not a fan of tanks, but I think the SL range nerf will be interesting, as for the damage nerf, tanks are being nerfed to, we will have to wait and try out for ourselves! Your right, SLs are getting a range nerf. Not saying that 400m was okay, but at 175m max range any dropship pilot will be invincible to SL users if they fly high enough. Damage nerf is okay, but what about PRO and ADV tanks? What then. I'm not hating or trying to bag on you, but I think that some of the AV nerfs were ridiculously stupid. There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes
Cosgar ParagonX 7542	Posted - 2013.11.09 23:34:00 - [20] - Quote Vehicles have been through a lot over several builds. HAV a heart man. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 945	Posted - 2013.11.09 23:37:00 - [21] - Quote Atiim wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: AV= too easy right now I like the proposed changes because that way we will see more vehicles on the maps. And tanks are difficult? Aside from redline AV and 2 idiots on high towers with IAFGs (who QQ about them simultaneously), tanks are quite possibly the easiest thing in the game right now. Atiim, I am not a fan of tanks, but I think the SL range nerf will be interesting, as for the damage nerf, tanks are being nerfed to, we will have to wait and try out for ourselves! Your right, SLs are getting a range nerf. Not saying that 400m was okay, but at 175m max range any dropship pilot will be invincible to SL users if they fly high enough. Damage nerf is okay, but what about PRO and ADV tanks? What then. I'm not hating or trying to bag on you, but I think that some of the AV nerfs were ridiculously stupid. Well you see I never saw the SL as much of an AA weapon, considering the dropships inability to dodge, counteract or even retort, it seemed a bit unfair, but no the swarm launcher is now an immediate theatre av weapon. So weaker tanks don't have to worry about every crevice. What you will see is more commando units in squads to deal with immediate av threats, while FG units will Rock up at vehicle chokepoints gorilla warfare style! This rework is going to cause a monumental shift in how infantry react to vehicles, and vice versa, I just hope its for the better of REAL tankers and infantry! The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both
Woka II Ultramarine Corp 2	Posted - 2013.11.09 23:42:00 - [22] - Quote Atiim wrote: Woka II wrote: Traitor, you owe us tankers for some of your wins and if my gunloggi wasn't there that madruger woulda ripped your suit to shreds. And btw keep in mind swarm = LIGHT av weapon their damage should not be on par or greater than the forge gun ( forge gun = HEAVY av weapon). This is like saying a 40mm grenade launcher should deal the same destruction as a 120mm howitzer ( not literally) . Tell you what why don't you get a madruger or a gunloggi and see what happen when you have 3 guys even with standard swarms team up on you. You know why tankers are unhappy? We have to deal with dropships, enemy installations, rooftop forge gunners, enemy tanks, orbitals ( we basically have a bullseye on our tanks) and infantrymen who aren't gonna be happy until they solo a tank with militia swarm, like you said " they're tanks for heaven's sake" and a "tank" should not be crippled by a single soldier. Welcome to New Eden, where technology has evolved to allow Forge Guns to be equal to Swarm Launchers. By that same logi, we should re-do drop uplinks, as a PRO drop uplink shouldn't have the same capabilities as a CRU. My end goal is complete balance between the two. Problem is there are some tankers who want AV to be useless. I bet my life that no-one on this entire forum heck even CPMs and DEVs could post a link to a thread where I've said that I want vehicles removed from the game completely. A forge gun should be equal to a swarm launcher, that's called balance. And BTW, you owe AV for some of those win because if we didn't destroy those tanks, you would have gone pop! (Like most crappy tankers who think that simply driving a Madrugar should grant you god-like power and the ability to lock entire squads out of combat), To my defense I run gunloggis, against armor tanks and av they're pretty easy to get killed in so I don't think it grants me god like power, it just makes me think smarter than the **** madruger drivers ( not saying all madruger drivers are **, there are sone really good ones out there) and that comment about owing is directed at my corp mate, but swarm = forge is not balance a medium frame that can run circles around heavies should not hit as hard and you're right about the pro uplinks
Void Echo 2127	Posted - 2013.11.09 23:46:00 - [23] - Quote Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: AV= too easy right now I like the proposed changes because that way we will see more vehicles on the maps. And tanks are difficult? Aside from redline AV and 2 idiots on high towers with IAFGs (who QQ about them simultaneously), tanks are quite possibly the easiest thing in the game right now. they are the hardest class to use in the game, if they were as easy as you say they are, 100% of dust would be using them you ******* idiot Youtube Closed Beta Vet Level 2.1 Forum Warrior
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 945	Posted - 2013.11.09 23:54:00 - [24] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: AV= too easy right now I like the proposed changes because that way we will see more vehicles on the maps. And tanks are difficult? Aside from redline AV and 2 idiots on high towers with IAFGs (who QQ about them simultaneously), tanks are quite possibly the easiest thing in the game right now. they are the hardest class to use in the game, if they were as easy as you say they are, 100% of dust would be using them you ******* idiot Tell that to the nova knife scout and pretty much everyone not running ar. I mean I took a miltia tank and killed a DS and its crew, within 3mins, the reason most people don't do tanks is because they haven't skilled, but it sure as hell is not the hardest class in the game! The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both
echo47 Minmatar Republic 98	Posted - 2013.11.09 23:55:00 - [25] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: AV= too easy right now I like the proposed changes because that way we will see more vehicles on the maps. And tanks are difficult? Aside from redline AV and 2 idiots on high towers with IAFGs (who QQ about them simultaneously), tanks are quite possibly the easiest thing in the game right now. they are the hardest class to use in the game, if they were as easy as you say they are, 100% of dust would be using them you ******* idiot Not the hardest class. They just take a lot of skill points (too many), and are too expensive.
Void Echo 2127	Posted - 2013.11.10 00:17:00 - [26] - Quote echo47 wrote: Void Echo wrote: Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: AV= too easy right now I like the proposed changes because that way we will see more vehicles on the maps. And tanks are difficult? Aside from redline AV and 2 idiots on high towers with IAFGs (who QQ about them simultaneously), tanks are quite possibly the easiest thing in the game right now. they are the hardest class to use in the game, if they were as easy as you say they are, 100% of dust would be using them you ******* idiot Not the hardest class. They just take a lot of skill points (too many), and are too expensive. better way of wording it, thank you Youtube Closed Beta Vet Level 2.1 Forum Warrior
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 946	Posted - 2013.11.10 00:19:00 - [27] - Quote Void Echo wrote: echo47 wrote: Void Echo wrote: Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: AV= too easy right now I like the proposed changes because that way we will see more vehicles on the maps. And tanks are difficult? Aside from redline AV and 2 idiots on high towers with IAFGs (who QQ about them simultaneously), tanks are quite possibly the easiest thing in the game right now. they are the hardest class to use in the game, if they were as easy as you say they are, 100% of dust would be using them you ******* idiot Not the hardest class. They just take a lot of skill points (too many), and are too expensive. better way of wording it, thank you well rejoice your skill tree will be almost identical to ours soon, yay! The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 801	Posted - 2013.11.10 01:47:00 - [28] - Quote Woka II wrote: To my defense I run gunloggis, against armor tanks and av they're pretty easy to get killed in so I don't think it grants me god like power, it just makes me think smarter than the **** madruger drivers ( not saying all madruger drivers are *, there are sone really good ones out there) and that comment about owing is directed at my corp mate, but swarm = forge is not balance a medium frame that can run circles around heavies should not hit as hard and you're right about the pro uplinks Oh I didn't realize he was in the same corp as you. Swarms = Forge is balanced. Otherwise, you'd have an imbalance between the two. And in terms of capability, the FG is better because it can be used as a super sniper if you put them on a roof. Just ask Tankahiro and Godin, they'll tell you all about it. But yeah a FG has the ability to kill dropsuits, and is free-fire. That means that you don't have to always worry about your swarms crashing into a wall, which is what usually happens. So yeah, in a sense Forge Guns are much better than Swarm Launchers. There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry* You'll still be useful in my eyes
Woka II Ultramarine Corp 2	Posted - 2013.11.10 01:48:00 - [29] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Woka II wrote: Traitor, you owe us tankers for some of your wins and if my gunloggi wasn't there that madruger woulda ripped your suit to shreds. And btw keep in mind swarm = LIGHT av weapon their damage should not be on par or greater than the forge gun ( forge gun = HEAVY av weapon). This is like saying a 40mm grenade launcher should deal the same destruction as a 120mm howitzer ( not literally) . Tell you what why don't you get a madruger or a gunloggi and see what happen when you have 3 guys even with standard swarms team up on you. You know why tankers are unhappy? We have to deal with dropships, enemy installations, rooftop forge gunners, enemy tanks, orbitals ( we basically have a bullseye on our tanks) and infantrymen who aren't gonna be happy until they solo a tank with militia swarm, like you said " they're tanks for heaven's sake" and a "tank" should not be crippled by a single soldier. Lets ignore that everything you listed infantry players have to worry about as well in addition to every other weapon in the game Lets ignore that there are many real world single man portable weapons capable of destroying a MBT since this is a game But lets focus on "One person should not be able to destroy a tank" Tell me why you think that, "Because its a tank" is not an answer Is it because of the SP investment? How about the fact that getting a weapon, modules, core skills and a frame to carry all that has a comparable cost but with more empty SP sinks with no benefit Is it the ISK cost? If so then please explain to me why you support pay to win Im all ears 1. You guy have to worry about other weapons but here's the thing, you don't have a bullseye painted on your back that screams " here I am, shoot me". In my experience they choose to kill my tank over a group of infantry in full or near full proto gear. Ive been singled on manus peak with an orbital when there were atleast 8 guys on A ( domination). We all got scanned. 2. Like you said it's a game. There should be balance, not a single light weapon that allows you to hold a 1 mil tank back. Heavier weapons I can sorta understand. 3. Yes and no, we have to deal with protos while using standard hulls. You guys who have lv 5 engineering and electronics can benefit more from your skills in your proto suits but we can only benefit so much in a standard hull 4. Again, yes and no. I would prefer not to have my 1 mil tank blown up because some guy can hit me from 400m and do the same amount of damage as a forge and i don't support pay to win.
Woka II Ultramarine Corp 2	Posted - 2013.11.10 01:57:00 - [30] - Quote Atiim wrote: Woka II wrote: To my defense I run gunloggis, against armor tanks and av they're pretty easy to get killed in so I don't think it grants me god like power, it just makes me think smarter than the **** madruger drivers ( not saying all madruger drivers are **, there are sone really good ones out there) and that comment about owing is directed at my corp mate, but swarm = forge is not balance a medium frame that can run circles around heavies should not hit as hard and you're right about the pro uplinks Oh I didn't realize he was in the same corp as you. Swarms = Forge is balanced. Otherwise, you'd have an imbalance between the two. And in terms of capability, the FG is better because it can be used as a super sniper if you put them on a roof. Just ask Tankahiro and Godin, they'll tell you all about it. But yeah a FG has the ability to kill dropsuits, and is free-fire. That means that you don't have to always worry about your swarms crashing into a wall, which is what usually happens. So yeah, in a sense Forge Guns are much better than Swarm Launchers. I dont mind forges being powerful, heavy weapons deserve to be powerful considering the horrendous movement speed, giant target and the cost, a light weapon should not be on par with a heavy weapon(damage wise and have more range). I know you can't free fire it but just like being caught with a forge at close range you better have a good backup or chances are you're screwed.



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