(Ok I'm fed up with this, please stop using excess line breaks in your posts.)

Really? I thought the mass diversity and the fact that everyone isn't a tryhard KD/R scrub is what kept this from becoming a CoD clone. You give yourself way too much credit.

And it's AV that prevents this from becoming TANK 514. And I expect a new release of "Wirykomi" 514 in the next update.

So while the grizzled veteran with 20k+ SP in tanks alone

And tanks are difficult?

Aside from redline AV and 2 idiots on high towers with IAFGs (who QQ about them simultaneously), tanks are quite possibly the easiest thing in the game right now.

Lets ignore that everything you listed infantry players have to worry about as well in addition to every other weapon in the game
Lets ignore that there are many real world single man portable weapons capable of destroying a MBT since this is a game
But lets focus on "One person should not be able to destroy a tank"
Tell me why you think that, "Because its a tank" is not an answer
Is it because of the SP investment? How about the fact that getting a weapon, modules, core skills and a frame to carry all that has a comparable cost but with more empty SP sinks with no benefit
Is it the ISK cost? If so then please explain to me why you support pay to win

Im all ears

Tell that to the nova knife scout and pretty much everyone not running ar.
I mean I took a miltia tank and killed a DS and its crew, within 3mins, the reason most people don't do tanks is because they haven't skilled, but it sure as hell is not the hardest class in the game!

Not the hardest class. They just take a lot of skill points (too many), and are too expensive.

The invisible swarms is a glitch that can only be fixed by CCP. And it is a glitch so you can't blame the user for it. I'm not gonna fire a warning shot at you to see whether or not my swarms are invisible.

You make a lot of assumptions. And yeah It takes way more than 650k to get any weapon at level 5/prof 5. try again. The Grenadier skill, the core skills it takes to even have enough CPU/PG to run the gear and have room for complex damage mods, the range amplifiers, the skill for a dropsuit itself is a decent SP sink within itself.

Complaining about not being able to destroy tanks? Almost all of my corp members carry PRO AV, so not destroying a tank is something that rarely happens.

I currently have around an equal amount of SP invested into AV and Tanks, and that SP was so easy to gain. (If 2 weeks could be considered easy).

Won't help on anything else? I find that hilarious because my armor regeneration, transporting, shield boosters and shield transporters also work on my Limbus and soon to be dropship. All vehicles share the exact same core skills (save for a few maybe). The skills can be useful for more than one thing, it's just that many tankers only use it on one thing.

I have no problem with getting WP for "scaring off" a tank. Just as long as it is given properly as opposed to "You chased of a tank, here's 5 WP."

Currently it's winner takes all, leading to the "You must die at all costs" mentality.

And I personally think that tanks cost way too much to be viable in it's current state, and with the supposed price of ADV and PRO tanks you can bet your @$$ that most of the playerbase will stay them. This game needs to stop catering to rich vets with 2B ISK and focus on the other 90% of it's players. HAVs truly do need a price debuff.

And my strongest AV suit costs 1/2 of the price of my HAV, so I can't really afford to die that much either.

I think 16x less is a bit of an exageration, we know you cost more, but what a lot of tankers forget, you might die once every few matches, but an infantry unit will die a few times every match, now a suit costs about 50,000+50,000+25,000+25,000+(6+ù5,000) ~ 200,000 per suit, there abouts now8w what that means in a public match if we die once, we pull in a profit of about 12,000 isk, but that is unlikely to happen. If we try to be AV for the majority of the match we can expect to die at least a dozen times, and half a dozen when we play as infantry.

I wouldn't consider myself as part of the Anti-Tank crowd, but I'll bite the apple anyway....

When have I ever said I want tanks to be OHKO'd by MLT swarms? When has anyone?

PRO AV is supposed to be super strong. Against PRO AV only the strongest of the the strong tanks should survive. It is PRO.

You assume that everyone here who's AV is bad at their role? You haven't even squared up with all of them (us).

As I've said before, I've never said nor implied that I want vehicles removed from the game. And I challenge anyone to state the contrary.

Don't resort to baseless claims and ad hominem. It just makes your arguments look weak.

Firstly, thank you for your contribution. However, I am never grateful for any allied tanker's assistance. More often than not, you destroy installations which are valuable to me for strategic advantage. You also harvest kills, which leaves fewer enemies for me to engage with (which is kinda the point of playing). And I don't play to win, I don't play for SP and I certainly don't play for K/D.

I play to play.

Also, you're complaints are quite interesting; Tankers have to put up with enemy tanks? I can't even comment on that politely. And you have a massive bullseye printed on you because you have an unbalanced ability to kill everything in sight - we need to get you down as quickly as possible and as you have clearly pointed out - it takes a large number of the opposing team to tackle you. I don't mind that, it inspires team work, but if the guns don't work then we'll need the whole team switching to AV just to kill one player.

Your "strategic positions" brings more harm to your own teammates than good. "OMG A TURRET I SHOULD HACK IT!!! *2 minutes later* enemy hacks it and shoots down a friendly dropship. ...
...P.S if it takes you an entire team to take down a gunloggi, you deserve to die considering how weak a gunloggi is.

Thank you again.

I was referring to supply depots and CRUs, I already stated that turrets are nigh useless. (And yes it is possible to kill a tank with one, but only if the driver is unaware and inept. - Harpiya)

The debate here truly rises between weak and strong tanks, soka or madrugur.

I do not expect my militia swarm launcher to be able to destroy a Madrugur. I don't want it to. Neither my advanced AV grenades. But a good tank driver will never allow me to get close enough to use AV grenades of any kind. And in real world warfare tanks are heavily supported and in communication with infantrymen, drones or spy satellite. When I sit in a tank turret I spend half the time on the map directing my driver to enemy HAVs and installations. Whenever an uki comes close I hop out and gun him down. If played carefully an HAV can be invincible.

If you don't want to lose it, what is it doing sitting out in the open? Why is it sitting there waiting for another burst of swarm instead of high-tailing it into cover?

But if you're expecting to get away with prowling solo around map deep in enemy lines, soaking in missiles and bouncing off AV grenades then your view of what an FPS MMO with 31 other players in each match is downright selfish and kinda silly.

I want tanks to survive entire matches when they are supported by their team and within their own lines. I do not think the current set up is balanced. I don't believe anyone is getting enough ISK for their efforts on the battlefield. I think if you bring a tank, get 30+ kills and win the match you should get a massive payout, 1m+ ISK.

Changes I would make (with further consideration and debate of course!)

Scan profile of tanks should be vast and they should be visible to a whole team when one merc has sights on them, and it shouldn't disappear for 3 seconds! (I know this is serious and ppl should mic up and comm. but they don't - so this is the solution). HAVS could also be louder - if you were a merc on the field you would know if one was close and which direction - this doesn't come through the tv or headphones well enough.
Turrets should be either last longer, be better placed or have higher ROF.
Destroying a neutral structure should harvest 0 WP.
AV grenades should not home in and perhaps have their own skill tree.
Swarm launchers should have a Heavy version which deals significant damage.
SL target range should not be reduced (except for militia./basic and if pt.SL really are as broken as they say perhaps should not deal as much damage).
Tank flares, counter missiles, EMP bursts or some measure of defense for tanks (which require timing and skill) should be deployed!
More ISK for effort.
Even though we are not talking about dropships they should have flares too (but then they'd be invincible, no?)

NOTE: most of my changes are in support of tanks, I just want them to remain vulnerable.

If tanks are much easier to destroy it will take the fun out of killing them! But the game needs to be balanced: Give them more ISK and let me keep my AV. Then what have they to complain about?

Peace.

(Ok I'm fed up with this, please stop using excess line breaks in your posts.)

Really? I thought the mass diversity and the fact that everyone isn't a tryhard KD/R scrub is what kept this from becoming a CoD clone. You give yourself way too much credit.

And it's AV that prevents this from becoming TANK 514. And I expect a new release of "Wirykomi" 514 in the next update.

I wouldn't consider myself as part of the Anti-Tank crowd, but I'll bite the apple anyway....

When have I ever said I want tanks to be OHKO'd by MLT swarms? When has anyone?

PRO AV is supposed to be super strong. Against PRO AV only the strongest of the the strong tanks should survive. It is PRO.

You assume that everyone here who's AV is bad at their role? You haven't even squared up with all of them (us).

As I've said before, I've never said nor implied that I want vehicles removed from the game. And I challenge anyone to state the contrary.

Don't resort to baseless claims and ad hominem. It just makes your arguments look weak.

And Lo, CCP spake and did say; Blessed are the Tank Drivers, whom from this point will flourish like spring lambs born forth in to the field and go merrily about the battle place reigning His mighty terror on the people, undisturbed by the Swarms and AVs which will fall like light spring rain on their hulls as they are under His protection and cannot be harmed."

OP is wrong

Balance has been achieved

FG is the hard vehicle counter, tank v tank is the main way

Get gud

Says the tank scrub.

But hey, I guess AV weapons should only tickle tanks? Should we be shooting poultry out if our forge guns? it's about as effective as that ATM, that is if you don't die during that increased spool time.

Vehicle vs vehicle counter is not effective, we heard no end to the crying that tower forges could only be countered by other forgers, yet you defend that only tanks should kill tanks? You sire are a hypocrite of the worst sort.

AV= too easy right now

I like the proposed changes because that way we will see more vehicles on the maps.

FG are still very effective

I dunno what you are doing? oh hang on yes i do your trying to solo vehicles again

Vehicle vs vehicle is very effective, i have done it a fair few times

Tower forge controled 100% of the map with just 1 person and did clear all and every vehicle with ease, now vehicles have some teeth and survivabilty they are now classed as UP

Get gud scrub

I kinda agree with you but at the same time I want to slap you in the face and ask "WTF is your problem"?

I hate using both things sometimes.