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Announcement:Changes to Planetary Conquest

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CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 133430	Posted - 2013.10.16 21:50:00 - [1] - Quote Hey guys, With tomorrows (October 17th) downtime we will be making some changes to the price clones in planetary conquest. The changes are as follows: Clone sell price changed from 150,000 ISK to 110,000 ISK. Biomass price of clones (clones killed in battle) changed from 150,000 ISK to 100,000 ISK. I owe you all an apology for the incredibly late notice on this. It is my fault and I take responsibility for that. With that being said we are also looking at changing these numbers again next week in a fairly dramatic fashion. The current numbers favor players selling the clones they have instead of using them for fighting. What we would like to do next week is change the numbers to the following: Clone sell price changed to 60,000 ISK. Biomass price of clones (clones killed in battle) to 160,000 ISK. Those changes would make it so that you make far more money by attacking. Before making a huge change like that however we would like to get some feedback. TL;DR: Clone prices in planetary conquest are going down slightly tomorrow. Discussion happening here about making big change to clone prices. Game Designer // Team True Grit http://twitter.com/regnerba

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 9489	Posted - 2013.10.16 21:54:00 - [2] - Quote Good temporary measure to hold over a bit.
RECON BY FIRE Internal Rebellion 279	Posted - 2013.10.16 21:56:00 - [3] - Quote Honestly, why not just change it to 60k and 160k tomorrow? With Corp taxes now in effect, Corps can just raise the tax if theyre running low on funds. Seems a lot better than nerfing individuals ISK payout and then buffing it higher than it was to start with a week later.

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 133430	Posted - 2013.10.16 21:59:00 - [4] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Honestly, why not just change it to 60k and 160k tomorrow? With Corp taxes now in effect, Corps can just raise the tax if theyre running low on funds. Seems a lot better than nerfing individuals ISK payout and then buffing it higher than it was to start with a week later. Honestly, because it a far more dramatic change and I wanted to be sure the community had time to respond and provide feedback on that change. Game Designer // Team True Grit http://twitter.com/regnerba

Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws 1324	Posted - 2013.10.16 22:00:00 - [5] - Quote Nerf dem farmers.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1153	Posted - 2013.10.16 22:03:00 - [6] - Quote Personally I wouldn't mind seeing the passive ISK go away completely. I guess I'll have to settle with a decrease to 60k per clone. That's 4.8m daily per district, or 6m with a Production Facility SI.
RECON BY FIRE Internal Rebellion 279	Posted - 2013.10.16 22:05:00 - [7] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Honestly, why not just change it to 60k and 160k tomorrow? With Corp taxes now in effect, Corps can just raise the tax if theyre running low on funds. Seems a lot better than nerfing individuals ISK payout and then buffing it higher than it was to start with a week later. Honestly, because it a far more dramatic change and I wanted to be sure the community had time to respond and provide feedback on that change. So its less dramatic to nerf individual payouts by 50k than it is to buff it by 10k? I can see how its less dramatic for the clone sell on the corp end, but if the goal is to get people fighting then the proposed change that will happen next week is what you want. Right now youre planning on hardcore nerfing individual payouts and nerfing the corp payout to a lesser degree. Therefore, that is LESS incentive to fight. Why fight and lose clones when you can not fight and gain more isk overall by selling those clones? So once again, just do the 60k and 160k tomorrow. Im usually a SocksFan, but Im not following you on this one.
N1ck Comeau Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 1512	Posted - 2013.10.16 22:08:00 - [8] - Quote there needs to be a fix to corps attacking themselves with an alt corp just to lock districts.

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 133433	Posted - 2013.10.16 22:13:00 - [9] - Quote N1ck Comeau wrote: there needs to be a fix to corps attacking themselves with an alt corp just to lock districts. Tomorrows change makes it so that doing so will have to be done at a loss of ISK. Game Designer // Team True Grit http://twitter.com/regnerba


CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 133433	Posted - 2013.10.16 22:15:00 - [10] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Honestly, why not just change it to 60k and 160k tomorrow? With Corp taxes now in effect, Corps can just raise the tax if theyre running low on funds. Seems a lot better than nerfing individuals ISK payout and then buffing it higher than it was to start with a week later. Honestly, because it a far more dramatic change and I wanted to be sure the community had time to respond and provide feedback on that change. So its less dramatic to nerf individual payouts by 50k than it is to buff it by 10k? I can see how its less dramatic for the clone sell on the corp end, but if the goal is to get people fighting then the proposed change that will happen next week is what you want. Right now youre planning on hardcore nerfing individual payouts and nerfing the corp payout to a lesser degree. Therefore, that is LESS incentive to fight. Why fight and lose clones when you can not fight and gain more isk overall by selling those clones? So once again, just do the 60k and 160k tomorrow. Im usually a SocksFan, but Im not following you on this one. The dramatic part is shifting the main money making over to having to be in a battle killing clones. Hell I even thought about just setting clone sell value to 0 ISK. >.< To be honest, you and I may just disagree on which change is more dramatic. Not much I can do about that. I am more sad that it has taken me this long to get around to looking at and changing these numbers. Kind of kicking myself in the ass about that. Can't do anything about the past though. Game Designer // Team True Grit http://twitter.com/regnerba


N1ck Comeau Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 1513	Posted - 2013.10.16 22:16:00 - [11] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: N1ck Comeau wrote: there needs to be a fix to corps attacking themselves with an alt corp just to lock districts. Tomorrows change makes it so that doing so will have to be done at a loss of ISK. oh. Well my excuse is i'm lazy and didn't read it good. thanks for clearing that up
Egypt Musk A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 25	Posted - 2013.10.16 22:16:00 - [12] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Hey guys, With tomorrows (October 17th) downtime we will be making some changes to the price clones in planetary conquest. The changes are as follows: Clone sell price changed from 150,000 ISK to 110,000 ISK. Biomass price of clones (clones killed in battle) changed from 150,000 ISK to 100,000 ISK. I owe you all an apology for the incredibly late notice on this. It is my fault and I take responsibility for that. With that being said we are also looking at changing these numbers again next week in a fairly dramatic fashion. The current numbers favor players selling the clones they have instead of using them for fighting. What we would like to do next week is change the numbers to the following: Clone sell price changed to 60,000 ISK. Biomass price of clones (clones killed in battle) to 160,000 ISK. Those changes would make it so that you make far more money by attacking. Before making a huge change like that however we would like to get some feedback. TL;DR: Clone prices in planetary conquest are going down slightly tomorrow. Discussion happening here about making big change to clone prices. This Is Kinda BS for the corps that are taking districts and successfully defending ... Expect tickets evey day from my corp and all of our officers ( myself included) if you go through with this... It took us months to get where were at today and now your going to nerf are income. When eon was making hundreds of millions a day nothing was changed... WHERES MY CPM I WANT A MEATING ASAP!
Z3R0 GR4VITY Red Star. EoN. 291	Posted - 2013.10.16 22:19:00 - [13] - Quote Only a 10k increase to clone kill reward is too low. It should be another 20k or so higher for better incentive to promote attacking.
Rogatien Merc Red Star. EoN. 1455	Posted - 2013.10.16 22:20:00 - [14] - Quote N1ck Comeau wrote: there needs to be a fix to corps attacking themselves with an alt corp just to *now make more money than if they did nothing with the clones by suiciding blank militia fit alts in alt corps*. fixed
RECON BY FIRE Internal Rebellion 279	Posted - 2013.10.16 22:20:00 - [15] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Hell I even thought about just setting clone sell value to 0 ISK. >.< Do it, DO IT! You wont do it, no balls.
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws 1325	Posted - 2013.10.16 22:21:00 - [16] - Quote Rogatien Merc wrote: N1ck Comeau wrote: there needs to be a fix to corps attacking themselves with an alt corp just to *now make more money than if they did nothing with the clones by suiciding blank militia fit alts in alt corps*. fixed This is my thought. The money is still there, it's now just goes to the players instead of directly to the corp.

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 133434	Posted - 2013.10.16 22:24:00 - [17] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Rogatien Merc wrote: N1ck Comeau wrote: there needs to be a fix to corps attacking themselves with an alt corp just to *now make more money than if they did nothing with the clones by suiciding blank militia fit alts in alt corps*. fixed This is my thought. The money is still there, it's now just goes to the players instead of directly to the corp. This is why I am against reducing the sell value straight to 0. Corps would mandate their players do that and crazy stuff. Game Designer // Team True Grit http://twitter.com/regnerba

Egypt Musk A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 27	Posted - 2013.10.16 22:29:00 - [18] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Rogatien Merc wrote: N1ck Comeau wrote: there needs to be a fix to corps attacking themselves with an alt corp just to *now make more money than if they did nothing with the clones by suiciding blank militia fit alts in alt corps*. fixed This is my thought. The money is still there, it's now just goes to the players instead of directly to the corp. This is why I am against reducing the sell value straight to 0. Corps would mandate their players do that and crazy stuff. Seriously this is the fluff you reply to what is your problem sir ...
Robert JD Niewiadomski NULLIMPEX INC 623	Posted - 2013.10.16 22:31:00 - [19] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: N1ck Comeau wrote: there needs to be a fix to corps attacking themselves with an alt corp just to lock districts. Tomorrows change makes it so that doing so will have to be done at a loss of ISK. How does it cost any money if biomass money is laundered back to the owner corp wallets through the alt corp members wallets? Help me to understand...
Earl Crushinator Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 158	Posted - 2013.10.16 22:34:00 - [20] - Quote Thanksgiving threw you off as well, eh?


CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 133444	Posted - 2013.10.16 22:37:00 - [21] - Quote Egypt Musk wrote: This Is Kinda BS for the corps that are taking districts and successfully defending ... Expect tickets evey day from my corp and all of our officers ( myself included) if you go through with this... It took us months to get where were at today and now your going to nerf are income. When eon was making hundreds of millions a day nothing was changed... WHERES MY CPM I WANT A MEATING ASAP! You need to find a better way to deal with the corps locking districts for profit and not penalize those that are not locking their districts.... Your a tool SoxFour Egypt Musk wrote: Seriously this is the fluff you reply to what is your problem sir ... But I am just a tool... tools don't have self control. We just hit our head against walls. :( More seriously: I am not sure how much of a long story vs short story to make this so I am going to go more with short story. Short story: We had plans for planetary conquest that relied on other things. Those other things ended up getting shelved/delayed/dropped/just not delivered. We are working on the design for planetary conquest 2.0 that does a lot of things very differently. We are in no way shape or form ready to talk about those designs yet. Right now we need to do more work on the designs and then decide: Do we just sort of tweak numbers for the current planetary conquest and wait until 2.0 comes along for the complete revamp? Or is 2.0 going to take to long and we need to spend development time on fixing 1.0. Not so serious: You said you wanted a meeting with the CPM, called me a tool, and sort of threatened to make lots of petitions if we went through with these changes. You didn't try to have a conversation or anything like that. I am not sure what kind of response to make... Game Designer // Team True Grit http://twitter.com/regnerba

howard sanchez expert intervention Caldari State 776	Posted - 2013.10.16 22:40:00 - [22] - Quote Egypt Musk wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Rogatien Merc wrote: N1ck Comeau wrote: there needs to be a fix to corps attacking themselves with an alt corp just to *now make more money than if they did nothing with the clones by suiciding blank militia fit alts in alt corps*. fixed This is my thought. The money is still there, it's now just goes to the players instead of directly to the corp. This is why I am against reducing the sell value straight to 0. Corps would mandate their players do that and crazy stuff. Seriously this is the fluff you reply to what is your problem sir ... Because his Troll Ignore Proficiency skill is 4 whereas mine is only 1
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws 1327	Posted - 2013.10.16 22:43:00 - [23] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Short story: We had plans for planetary conquest that relied on other things. Those other things ended up getting shelved/delayed/dropped/just not delivered. We are working on the design for planetary conquest 2.0 that does a lot of things very differently. We are in no way shape or form ready to talk about those designs yet. Right now we need to do more work on the designs and then decide: Do we just sort of tweak numbers for the current planetary conquest and wait until 2.0 comes along for the complete revamp? Or is 2.0 going to take to long and we need to spend development time on fixing 1.0. I think this part should have been in the OP.

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 133444	Posted - 2013.10.16 22:45:00 - [24] - Quote Robert JD Niewiadomski wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: N1ck Comeau wrote: there needs to be a fix to corps attacking themselves with an alt corp just to lock districts. Tomorrows change makes it so that doing so will have to be done at a loss of ISK. How does it cost any money if biomass money is laundered back to the owner corp wallets through the alt corp members wallets? Help me to understand... Sure, let me break it down for you. I am going to break it down to how it looks after tomorrows changes, you can adjust the math for the proposed changes next week if you like. Actually, since I am lazy and don't feel like formating it to fit in a forum post, let me make a quick image for you: Hopefully that helps. Game Designer // Team True Grit http://twitter.com/regnerba


CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 133444	Posted - 2013.10.16 22:46:00 - [25] - Quote howard sanchez wrote: Egypt Musk wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Rogatien Merc wrote: N1ck Comeau wrote: there needs to be a fix to corps attacking themselves with an alt corp just to *now make more money than if they did nothing with the clones by suiciding blank militia fit alts in alt corps*. fixed This is my thought. The money is still there, it's now just goes to the players instead of directly to the corp. This is why I am against reducing the sell value straight to 0. Corps would mandate their players do that and crazy stuff. Seriously this is the fluff you reply to what is your problem sir ... Because his Troll Ignore Proficiency skill is 4 whereas mine is only 1 I may have had a lapse in that skill, possibly from a death and my clone not being fully upgraded (see above your recent post). Regranting myself all skills now. Game Designer // Team True Grit http://twitter.com/regnerba

Egypt Musk A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 27	Posted - 2013.10.16 22:49:00 - [26] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Egypt Musk wrote: This Is Kinda BS for the corps that are taking districts and successfully defending ... Expect tickets evey day from my corp and all of our officers ( myself included) if you go through with this... It took us months to get where were at today and now your going to nerf are income. When eon was making hundreds of millions a day nothing was changed... WHERES MY CPM I WANT A MEATING ASAP! You need to find a better way to deal with the corps locking districts for profit and not penalize those that are not locking their districts.... Your a tool SoxFour Egypt Musk wrote: Seriously this is the fluff you reply to what is your problem sir ... But I am just a tool... tools don't have self control. We just hit our head against walls. :( More seriously: I am not sure how much of a long story vs short story to make this so I am going to go more with short story. Short story: We had plans for planetary conquest that relied on other things. Those other things ended up getting shelved/delayed/dropped/just not delivered. We are working on the design for planetary conquest 2.0 that does a lot of things very differently. We are in no way shape or form ready to talk about those designs yet. Right now we need to do more work on the designs and then decide: Do we just sort of tweak numbers for the current planetary conquest and wait until 2.0 comes along for the complete revamp? Or is 2.0 going to take to long and we need to spend development time on fixing 1.0. Not so serious: You said you wanted a meeting with the CPM, called me a tool, and sort of threatened to make lots of petitions if we went through with these changes. You didn't try to have a conversation or anything like that. I am not sure what kind of response to make... Your plans are to make these changes with less than twelve hours notice you sir have left no time for a proper conversation or discussion on the topic before implementation and to be more realistic knowing how you work you would implement this anyways. So yes I do think deep inside your a tool and yes I do plan to launch a wave of tickets. I will stand down until my corps PR rep gets on but this is not over soxs
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 2153	Posted - 2013.10.16 22:54:00 - [27] - Quote Egypt Musk wrote: Your plans are to make these changes with less than twelve hours notice you sir have left no time for a proper conversation or discussion on the topic before implementation and to be more realistic knowing how you work you would implement this anyways. So yes I do think deep inside your a tool and yes I do plan to launch a wave of tickets. I will stand down until my corps PR rep gets on but this is not over soxs and we wonder why devs won't come on here and talk... :facepalm:
Robert JD Niewiadomski NULLIMPEX INC 624	Posted - 2013.10.16 23:05:00 - [28] - Quote OK, i get it. But wouldn't it become even more profitable after next week adjustments if the district ownership will shuttle between "the main corp" and "the alt corp"? Assuming members donating all biomass money back to corp wallets... Or do i talk bilge?
CEOPyrex CloneA The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 289	Posted - 2013.10.16 23:06:00 - [29] - Quote Egypt Musk wrote: I will stand down until my corps PR rep gets on but this is not over soxs Ahahahhah jesus, seriously?
Leither Yiltron KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 738	Posted - 2013.10.16 23:21:00 - [30] - Quote These changes will have little impact on day-to-day PC operations. ISK hasn't been a limiting factor in PC for a very, very long time. Even clone packs are more about the debilitating clone disadvantage than they are about ISK cost. You're not going to see the 3 alliances left in MH surge into action just because they could get like 20mil more per day or something. The underlying mechanics suck too much to promote much more activity than is already happening.

Rogatien Merc Red Star. EoN. 1457	Posted - 2013.10.16 23:23:00 - [31] - Quote howard sanchez wrote: edit: quote quota... Because his Troll Ignore Proficiency skill is 4 whereas mine is only 1 My post wasn't trollish in the slightest... it was a witty (er... for the forum...) way to point out an issue.

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 133487	Posted - 2013.10.16 23:29:00 - [32] - Quote Rogatien Merc wrote: howard sanchez wrote: edit: quote quota... Because his Troll Ignore Proficiency skill is 4 whereas mine is only 1 My post wasn't trollish in the slightest... it was a witty (er... for the forum...) way to point out an issue. Pretty sure he was talking to Egypt Musk not you. :) Game Designer // Team True Grit http://twitter.com/regnerba

Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 578	Posted - 2013.10.16 23:29:00 - [33] - Quote Some are not going to happy about these changes because we've had a long period where a small number of corps have had a long time ISK farming and now they've pulled out and earned their money they are going to still have that greater financial clout already banked over those that come after them. I understand that they might be upset but in the long run its going to be an irrelevance once the player market comes in and that ISK is redistributed by market forces. Also the money that will come into the game via Eve eventually will DWARF that already earned in Dust. So for that reason I'm not unduly concerned. I can see definite pluses for this from the standpoint of the mercs that fight in PC, in so much as they will receive a greater proportion of ISK payout from the biomass directly from the payout mechanism of the game and not as payment from a corp wallet. Also less work to do for an accountant role user having to pay them from that wallet. If a corp is worried about the financial hit they will get from the lower sale value of Clones to Genolution, they can simply raise the tax level. This however also brings in a certain level of risk as their best players may go another corp willing to tax them less. I'm in favour of a CEO, speaking as one, to have to take this into account in his/her decision as it brings with it consequence, which is what gaming in a single shard universe should be all about. In terms of the Uni's current plans in PC I think it will be a positive for us in the long term. Our ambition has always been to help players to train in all aspects of the game, including PC. To that end we own 5 Districts and invite other corps to attack us in a pre arranged way so as that newer players can have a crack at PC without the stress of fighting for and possibly lose a district. Win or lose, the attacking corp agree's to not perform a follow on attack until our clone count is replenished on that district. This minimises the likelihood that we get cloned out of the ownership of a district. We also set in place rules of engagement for these battles so as to allow those players not highly skilled to play with cheap fits, again benefiting all. This new higher payment mechanic means that it will hopefully encourage other corps to participate in our programme as It will allow their players to get a regular higher cheque once in a while without having to worry about the usual PC stresses that I mentioned earlier. But as FoxFour mentioned in the OP, this work is necessary for the continued iteration of PC, a mechanic which from the outset, I personally had misgivings about. I'm looking forward very much as to the details of PC 2.0 once they are made known and how they pertain to the evolution of Faction Warfare in Dust, which I'm very much of the opinion is where the future of the Eve/Dust link lies. Nearly all those involved in PC for any length of time know that there are problems with the mechanic as it allows a pretty much guaranteed ISK tap for those willing to specialise in it and make it easy to defend that tap without too much difficulty. It needs to be fixed and made ready for the inevitable expansion beyond Molden Heath into null-sec which in its current iteration isn't going to be possible.

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 133487	Posted - 2013.10.16 23:34:00 - [34] - Quote Keep the feedback coming guys. I am going to focus some more on this FW document I am working on, then go home to get some sleep, and should be back looking over further feedback tomorrow. :) Game Designer // Team True Grit http://twitter.com/regnerba

SILENTSAM 69 SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 568	Posted - 2013.10.16 23:37:00 - [35] - Quote Thanks for the good work. Oh, and man are gamers feeling entitled these days...
Rogatien Merc Red Star. EoN. 1457	Posted - 2013.10.16 23:39:00 - [36] - Quote Robert JD Niewiadomski wrote: OK, i get it. But wouldn't it become even more profitable after next week adjustments if the district ownership will shuttle between "the main corp" and "the alt corp"? Assuming members donating all biomass money back to corp wallets... Or do i talk bilge? 'worst case scenario' math whereby two allied corps just chain attack each other's across all districts every couple days using clones from districts = pure profit. Literally takes 10 guys each in two corps... 1 per to sit and defend a district and 10 per to hop on alts and suicide militia fits 30x each. My concern is that this has now complicated ISK generation, not reduced ISK generation, while reducing enjoyment of the PC mechanic. Given the current fundamental mechanics of clone generation, clone packs, 24+hr attack timers, and selling clones for ISK I fail to see the possibility for an unexploitable mechanic that will achieve the goal of make legit attacks more profitable / likely than farming. Turn off the ISK faucet. De-couple district ISK generation from clone generation and drastically reduce the price of clone packs.
Rogatien Merc Red Star. EoN. 1457	Posted - 2013.10.16 23:43:00 - [37] - Quote By which I mean in a KISS kinda way... 1) Owning a district generates 5,000,000 ISK per 24 hours. Attack timers remain based on current mechanics. 2) A district will generate clones at current rates until the district is full (production facilities allow smaller attacks, but more frequently... cargo hubs allow larger attacks but take longer to charge up). 3) Let the games begin. CCP FoxFour wrote: Pretty sure he was talking to Egypt Musk not you. :) ... embarrassing
crazy space 1 Unkn0wn Killers 1845	Posted - 2013.10.16 23:52:00 - [38] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Honestly, why not just change it to 60k and 160k tomorrow? With Corp taxes now in effect, Corps can just raise the tax if theyre running low on funds. Seems a lot better than nerfing individuals ISK payout and then buffing it higher than it was to start with a week later. Honestly, because it a far more dramatic change and I wanted to be sure the community had time to respond and provide feedback on that change. Yes! Good call : ) Also good plan
String3 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 7	Posted - 2013.10.16 23:57:00 - [39] - Quote honestly fox4 I would rather you guys fix game play and pc lagginess than worry about clone sales.focus on pc 2.0 and leave this one as is for now to help expidite ew pc plan.just my opinion.
Rogatien Merc Red Star. EoN. 1457	Posted - 2013.10.17 00:04:00 - [40] - Quote crazy space 1 wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Honestly, why not just change it to 60k and 160k tomorrow? With Corp taxes now in effect, Corps can just raise the tax if theyre running low on funds. Seems a lot better than nerfing individuals ISK payout and then buffing it higher than it was to start with a week later. Honestly, because it a far more dramatic change and I wanted to be sure the community had time to respond and provide feedback on that change. So why not just tie the delivery of ClonePacks to a planet for invasion in the hands of eve online players? Once the warbarge is deployed it's just invisible, but it creates some conflict in space and the new warp changes blockades could be very fun and effective. We should be able to put up contracts as well. So you can put out an open call, someone deliver this clone pack between this window of attack. So they aren't expecting a neutral or a blue. The longer the number of jumps the more danger your clones are in. And if a dust corp wants to fight on it's own it needs a district on the planet to generate clones and create a more RISK board game type mechanic. Or something I don't know. Because "just" doing that is years of man hours to impliment... you ask for the Moon on a platter my friend. Also tying key game mechanics to the whims of EvE pilots is something we that is going to have to be eased into over a long, long time to ensure the 'system' remains stable.

Cpt Merdock The Exemplars Top Men. 89	Posted - 2013.10.17 00:13:00 - [41] - Quote Changes need to be made to the quality of the servers in pc weather than changing prices in my opinion, but to comment on this I really don't see it being much of a difference being made to the PC environment.
Leither Yiltron KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 738	Posted - 2013.10.17 00:39:00 - [42] - Quote Rogatien Merc wrote: Given the current fundamental mechanics of clone generation, clone packs, 24+hr attack timers, and selling clones for ISK I fail to see the possibility for an unexploitable mechanic that will achieve the goal of make legit attacks more profitable / likely than farming. Rog gets it, though it goes even deeper than this. Let me open up with this: It shouldn't just be FoxFour's responsibility to inform the player base of changes to PC. Why, when these sorts of changes are getting pushed to the live build, isn't there some person whose job it is to check whether each of the updates getting pushed might demand an announcement? Even so, the entire scenario is a fiasco. There are wars going on right now; if ISK was really any part of the calculus of those, such calculus would be borked on a moment's notice. We need a procedure for these situations, not just one guy against the world. Changing the ISK values on clone sales and biomass sale values isn't going to change the fundamental interactions in PC in a meaningful way. This is because these two ISK values are essentially irrelevant to whether or not anyone chooses to initiate a battle in Molden Heath at the moment. What does matter is the human element of planetary conquest. Whenever I make a decision concerning PC- and mind you I'm ROFL's PC coordinator- the first question on my mind isn't of the form, "If we pick up more districts we would make enough ISK to...", nor does it look like, "I wonder if we'll have enough ISK to...". No, the first and biggest question that comes up is, "Are we going to have FUN doing it?" And really that's the only question that matters. Morale and lack of fun will always become a problem before ISK does in PC's current climate. Losing morale and losing ISK are caused by the same thing- losing matches to mechanical flaws and keystone problems with the game. These are things like SP/gear disparity and map/game mode design which are strategically brain dead. When you're afflicted by these types of issues, frustrations with the game itself mount far quicker than you could ever get to the bottom of your pocket book. So now you should have an insight into why these types of changes are irrelevant to fighting in Molden Heath. We're not going to fight more often. Maintaining correct activity rates is more important to FUN than pushing activity rates really high in order to gain ISK. After all, what are you going to do with the ISK? At best, what it might encourage is destabilization of Hrober V and Oddellulf III, arguably the only saving graces of PC which foster any sense of community at the moment. The only numbers that can be tweaked which will have any positive effect on PC1.0 are the ones that concern clone packs. 120 clones is not enough, and 36 million is too much. Tweaking the other values to align with changes to clone pack numbers would be acceptable, but that's about it. Here's how PC looks to a new corp: (1) Scrounge up 36mil ISK (2) Attack someone (3) Lose because 120 clones isn't enough for anyone, don't care who you are, against a competent opponent; doesn't matter if you're actually better strategically/winning by MCC in spades (4) Scrounge up 100mil (5) Buy a district from an existing corp (6) Lose because existing corps can't justify leaving the district alone when fighting on it represents easy activity, existing corps probably have a team that's much more grizzled than yours (7) Lose especially quickly because attacking mechanics are stupid and allow that experienced corp to take your district in less than 2 hours Do you see how this goes? We can all agree that PC1.0 is fundamentally broken for a variety of reasons. One of the only ways to allow a pool of players bigger than 500 the mechanical ABILITY to have a fun, clean fight somewhere out in Molden Heath is to cut many of the strings that are attached to the logistics of holding districts and loosen restrictions on clone packs even farther. Kevall Longstride wrote: I understand that they might be upset but in the long run its going to be an irrelevance once the player market comes in and that ISK is redistributed by market forces. Also the money that will come into the game via Eve eventually will DWARF that already earned in Dust. So for that reason I'm not unduly concerned. I can see definite pluses for this from the standpoint of the mercs that fight in PC, in so much as they will receive a greater proportion of ISK payout from the biomass directly from the payout mechanism of the game and not as payment from a corp wallet. Also less work to do for an accountant role user having to pay them from that wallet. If a corp is worried about the financial hit they will get from the lower sale value of Clones to Genolution, they can simply raise the tax level. This however also brings in a certain level of risk as their best players may go another corp willing to tax them less. I'm in favour of a CEO, speaking as one, to have to take this into account in his/her decision as it brings with it consequence, which is what gaming in a single shard universe should be all about. The rest of your post had merit as a personal insight, Kevall, but these three paragraphs are silly. Paragraph one is dismissive of the conversation at hand. You provide no good basis for your statement in paragraph two other than speculation. As stated above, it's frankly irrelevant. Paragraph three just doesn't do the math. Maybe D-UNI makes a lot of ISK from taxes already or something, but as a director in the largest corp fighting in PC I can tell you that tax increases generate nothing compared to clone pack costs. Additionally the bigger problem with clone packs, again as above, is the low number of clones. They're not fun to use, which is a bigger issue. My point is ask you not to speculate when you don't engage with particular mechanics.
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 171	Posted - 2013.10.17 00:43:00 - [43] - Quote Egypt Musk wrote: This Is Kinda BS for the corps that are taking districts and successfully defending ... Expect tickets evey day from my corp and all of our officers ( myself included) if you go through with this... It took us months to get where were at today and now your going to nerf are income. When eon was making hundreds of millions a day nothing was changed... WHERES MY CPM I WANT A MEATING ASAP! You need to find a better way to deal with the corps locking districts for profit and not penalize those that are not locking their districts.... Your a tool SoxFour If you're successfully defending your districts wont you make a profit out of the clones you kill anyway? I haven't done PC yet so this doesn't affect me at all but maybe something less drastic like 90k for clone sell prices. I'm sure they'll get plenty of feedback on how this will work once everything takes effect and will adjust accordingly. I did see someone predict that people would use the dummy corps to attack a district and instead of just not showing up they would just kill the alt clones to make their profit which would effectively give people in giant corps even more cash and give people a way to boost their KDR which is probably an attractive option to alot of people. Egypt, I'd like to see some ideas on how to fix the district locking problem instead of ordering people to do their job "better" Personally I just think the real problem is that PC has no purpose outside of making extra cash, therefore people are going to exploit it to make a ton of cash, offering an incentive outside of just more money to get attacked by an actual rival corp would be a better fix, I would say more salvage but from what I hear there's plenty of that, I don't really know what else you could include into PC that would be exclusive to it and not available in a pub match.
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 779	Posted - 2013.10.17 00:51:00 - [44] - Quote We are going to run out of isk :(
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 829	Posted - 2013.10.17 00:59:00 - [45] - Quote Egypt Musk wrote: -- snip QQ and cheese whining about anything that was not done specifically to suit his ego centric satisfaction -- The only solution Fox is to ignore QQ Kittens like EM. Any that threaten first have removed themselves from rational conversation. Any response will just fuel a higher level of the Troll Effect.
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 829	Posted - 2013.10.17 01:01:00 - [46] - Quote Komodo Jones wrote: -- snip -- You ask 'successfully defending' and I see 'with ringers'.
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 218	Posted - 2013.10.17 01:01:00 - [47] - Quote Remove isk reward completely from PC and implement a better way to reward players/corps. Technically I dont even think clone packs should cost any isk whatsoever. The isk is great to start...because you need isk to get involved in PC (36mil for clone pack) and to stay involved in PC you need to generate the revenue to run proto gear. Give isk only for battles and make it a couple mil for each player. But don't give passive isk generation to corps. Removing the ISK parameter from that equation will help to level the field for those ahead who were able to milk the isk from the previous iteration of PC. Rewards you could give instead of isk for districts. additional skill points for all members in that corp (either booster like or more passive) Officer gear given after every day of downtime....or a higher percent chance in pub matches Reduced % cost in market for every district held. Be creative and give us rewards we can't find outside of PC. That will drive conflict.
Deluxe Edition TeamPlayers EoN. 731	Posted - 2013.10.17 01:24:00 - [48] - Quote Here is a suggestion. Give molden heath some resources that would really matter to EvE players, something they would be willing to fight for. Then make it so the only way they can access that resource is to own a certain number of districts on a planet to mine it's moons. then add a contract system so EvE corporations can contract out the defense or an attack of a district to dust players/corporations. With this model you can test out ways to implement Dust into null sec later on, while actually providing a true dust/eve link. dust players win because they don't have to log in everyday to defend timers, and eve players win due to another source of income. The rewards should be the same as holding valuable space in null sec , something that will make the space highly coveted.
HowDidThatTaste Ancient Exiles 3815	Posted - 2013.10.17 01:31:00 - [49] - Quote As someone who plays a lot of PC I really like these changes. Both corps I have been in it was never really our desire to hold districts then you become bogged down with defending stacked timers etc.. What this will finally allow is us to attack at will leaving a path if destruction. No more concern about holding anything. It will make attacking much more fun. However what is the incentive for the defending team to show up? What is the value of holding a district if you don't make much from it? Kinda seems like it will be roaming packs of killers with no reason to hold what you took
Aqua-Regia Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 429	Posted - 2013.10.17 02:28:00 - [50] - Quote i like +1

Hawkin P molon labe. RISE of LEGION 283	Posted - 2013.10.17 04:21:00 - [51] - Quote If you going to do all this and keep clone packs the same ridiculous price no new corp is ever going to get into PC. NTM at the moment it would take a 50 member corp over a month to save up for enough clone pack to take a district without losing. (72 mil, 96 if it's a cargo hub) and they could spend that and lose that last battle. Clone packs need to change or you will lose all interest in PC. NTM they need to be 150 clones. 120 is useless against a good corp.
SILENTSAM 69 SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 569	Posted - 2013.10.17 05:07:00 - [52] - Quote Everyone has their opinions on what is right and wrong about PC it seems. I myself see things differently than most I guess. I think that in an effort to make PC available to small corporations of friends they have instead given power to small elite organizations. In EVE having a lot of people behind you make a big difference, but that does not seem to be the case in DUST. That said I am unsure how to reverse this. Holding a District is rather simple now in my opinion. You do nothing, and make money. Not only would I like to see some kind of management that effects the efficiency at which it generates ISK, or some resource though. I think we really need the ability to walk around the territories we own. Why is it mercs can not sit around, and talk about old battles on the battlefield they have fought for? It gives us a place to meet up outside of a battle and maybe drive an LAV around for fun. That or maybe it gives us the ability to walk through strategies and look at interesting vantage points on the maps we own. As for the changes coming, I see the reason for them, and understand they are a temporary fix until we get to see what you guys have thought up for PC 2.0
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 2016	Posted - 2013.10.17 05:08:00 - [53] - Quote Hawkin P wrote: If you going to do all this and keep clone packs the same ridiculous price no new corp is ever going to get into PC. NTM at the moment it would take a 50 member corp over a month to save up for enough clone pack to take a district without losing. (72 mil, 96 if it's a cargo hub) and they could spend that and lose that last battle. Clone packs need to change or you will lose all interest in PC. NTM they need to be 150 clones. 120 is useless against a good corp. 120 clones really is useless. It should go back up to 150 clones for $80M or $100M ISK. I'm not sure how I feel about the reduction in clone sales. What is the point in holding a district if not to farm ISK?
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 38	Posted - 2013.10.17 05:50:00 - [54] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Remove isk reward completely from PC and implement a better way to reward players/corps. Technically I dont even think clone packs should cost any isk whatsoever. The isk is great to start...because you need isk to get involved in PC (36mil for clone pack) and to stay involved in PC you need to generate the revenue to run proto gear. Give isk only for battles and make it a couple mil for each player. But don't give passive isk generation to corps. Removing the ISK parameter from that equation will help to level the field for those ahead who were able to milk the isk from the previous iteration of PC. Rewards you could give instead of isk for districts. additional skill points for all members in that corp (either booster like or more passive) Officer gear given after every day of downtime....or a higher percent chance in pub matches Reduced % cost in market for every district held. Be creative and give us rewards we can't find outside of PC. That will drive conflict.
Sigberct Amni Goonfeet Top Men. 153	Posted - 2013.10.17 05:51:00 - [55] - Quote Until PC is relevant to eve, why spin the wheels about it? Honestly, no one cares about PC other than those who want to build the shoddy hovel empire that we are allowed to build atm. If holding districts doesn't generate that mad money, then the final group of people (empire builders) will give up as well. I don't really understand the objective? Finally drive off those interested in sandcastle building in a game that already suffers from lack of persistence? ..... why? CCP, I WANT to be interested in this game. Running around zerging districts in PC for temporary isk gains is literally the same thing that happens just by quene'ing up for public matches. Only in PC, there's more lag and more isk involved. e: as stated elsewhere in the thread. Let's have different rewards until such time that the meta-game in dust matters. No one cares about the useless isk rewards you get currently since we have nothing to spend it on.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 579	Posted - 2013.10.17 08:25:00 - [56] - Quote I may have been speculating a little in my earlier post as none of here have any clue as to what PC 2.0 is going to be like. I really hope that it's a complete re-working of it because the current iteration is just a ISK tap that isn't very fun to do anyway. Those we're my original misgivings about the mechanic by the way when it was spoken about at Fanfest. It was obvious that all it would need is a certain level of co-operation between corps and alliances and all of a sudden we have a load of blue generating a load of ISK which couldn't be spent on anything. If player trading had come in before PC did then it would've worked as a market force acting on that player market. But it didn't and all PC has become is a grind which simply provides ISK and nothing to spend it on other than stuff that that is available to all in the market. It also wasn't going to be FUN. For this to be actually worth something it needs a unique reward system, other than just ISK. If it is tied into Faction Warfare in some way, which is looking increasingly likely as being the case, then items such as officer suits and equipment tied to the faction your fighting for should be the reward. These can then be sold on the player market and destroyed in battle causing a fairly large ISK sink. The player base is already starting to use the current PC mechanic as a replacment for the old corporation contract from Chromosome anyway for friendly arranged battles. It's original intended purpose as a war generation mechanic is dead because it offered nothing expect ISK. Any half decent player spending less ISK than they spend per match, can earn 1m+ ISK in an hour of pub play easily (if your not able to do this you really need to look at your spending. I have a video with tips for playing this game at a profit). Most veteran players have 50m+ in their personal wallet, ISK doesn't really provide any form of prestige anymore. Theres loads of it around. But officer suits and gear... if PC was the only way to get them to sell them on a player market or use in battle, then would be something to fight for. Players like the shiney.
Serpiente Quetzaltcoal Talledos Inc 0	Posted - 2013.10.17 08:39:00 - [57] - Quote Just throwing randoms ideas out there: Add PVE/PVP to the mechanics in PC, how? Well, make it so if a district has not been attack in X days, the game will launch an attack, whether you send bots, or pick a team from public matches (without they knowing) and send them to fight in behalf of the game. With this mechanic you will prevent DISTRICTS HOARDING, making it so that if the CORP holding these districts can't attend, they will lose the district to a GAME CORP, so another CORP can conquer it, and so on. Hold what you can defend.
Robert Lanate Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 10	Posted - 2013.10.17 08:54:00 - [58] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: Honestly, why not just change it to 60k and 160k tomorrow? With Corp taxes now in effect, Corps can just raise the tax if theyre running low on funds. Seems a lot better than nerfing individuals ISK payout and then buffing it higher than it was to start with a week later. But a player can change/leave corp if it is exploiting him and he dosnt like that.
Buzzwords Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 484	Posted - 2013.10.17 10:07:00 - [59] - Quote i understand wanting to reduce the passive isk as it really cements momentum on a macro scale, but it does raise the question: what else IS there? if passive isk is removed, then all holding a district does (essentially) is get you cheap clone packs to attempt raids on other peoples districts. but those districts have no value except to feed raids on OTHER districts. that hardly seems worth worrying about defending? TLDR: i don't disagree with removing passive isk, but it needs to be replaced with something else.
Protected Void STRONG-ARMED BANDITS Public Disorder. 155	Posted - 2013.10.17 10:29:00 - [60] - Quote Egypt Musk wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Egypt Musk wrote: This Is Kinda BS for the corps that are taking districts and successfully defending ... Expect tickets evey day from my corp and all of our officers ( myself included) if you go through with this... It took us months to get where were at today and now your going to nerf are income. When eon was making hundreds of millions a day nothing was changed... WHERES MY CPM I WANT A MEATING ASAP! You need to find a better way to deal with the corps locking districts for profit and not penalize those that are not locking their districts.... Your a tool SoxFour Egypt Musk wrote: Seriously this is the fluff you reply to what is your problem sir ... But I am just a tool... tools don't have self control. We just hit our head against walls. :( More seriously: I am not sure how much of a long story vs short story to make this so I am going to go more with short story. Short story: We had plans for planetary conquest that relied on other things. Those other things ended up getting shelved/delayed/dropped/just not delivered. We are working on the design for planetary conquest 2.0 that does a lot of things very differently. We are in no way shape or form ready to talk about those designs yet. Right now we need to do more work on the designs and then decide: Do we just sort of tweak numbers for the current planetary conquest and wait until 2.0 comes along for the complete revamp? Or is 2.0 going to take to long and we need to spend development time on fixing 1.0. Not so serious: You said you wanted a meeting with the CPM, called me a tool, and sort of threatened to make lots of petitions if we went through with these changes. You didn't try to have a conversation or anything like that. I am not sure what kind of response to make... Your plans are to make these changes with less than twelve hours notice you sir have left no time for a proper conversation or discussion on the topic before implementation and to be more realistic knowing how you work you would implement this anyways. So yes I do think deep inside your a tool and yes I do plan to launch a wave of tickets. I will stand down until my corps PR rep gets on but this is not over soxs snort

m twiggz Hollowed Kings 96	Posted - 2013.10.17 10:34:00 - [61] - Quote This may get rid of district locking and farming, finally. It also hurts small indie corps trying to train their members in PC. Yet another step by CCP to remove a broken game mechanic while punishing new players. Thank you.
Spectral Clone The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 243	Posted - 2013.10.17 10:38:00 - [62] - Quote These changes are good. We are mercs that are contracted to win battles, EVE players should do the farming after we are done with our job on the ground. Edit: For the future I would like to see a mechanic where your probability to loose the district increase over time. For example increased attacks per time unit or reduced clone regeneration over time. Would be an awesome mechanic. It does not make sense that every planet has infinite resources. Maybe EVE players need to transport clone goo to the planet or you will be ******.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3356	Posted - 2013.10.17 11:40:00 - [63] - Quote I'd like to make a formal apology on behalf of the corporation as there were some rather heated words thrown about in this thread recently that could have been conveyed with a bit more tact. As a budding corporation in Molden Heath we're directly affected by these changes at a rather ill-conceived time and there has been a bit of eyebrow raising toward it as it seems a bit like controversy to some degree, however small. Having just established a notable foothold this does limit our profits in a negative way and with little time to prepare for it - rather, to ease into it - we're left with a bit of frustration at the ill-timing. While it does seem a little odd that these changes occur after EON announced they'd be pulling out of PC after dominating the majority of the map, I'd like to believe that this is simply tin foil hattery, but it doesn't make me any less wary of it. These changes should have been implemented after receiving feedback from the community (something you, CCP, were -starting- to get better at) and it seems as though the changes were implemented by spontaneous reaction as opposed to legitimate concern for the game's health. What you now have is major power blocs which are wealthy and a change that only increases the disparity between the veterans and new introductions to Planetary Conquest - yet these changes came with an already ailing system, not with a revamped one such as Planetary Conquest 2.0. Needless to say, this is a very bad move to pull so late in the game and so early in the implementation of a new system. This is only going to get worse with 1.7 in which the x100 Falchions rewarded recently, which barely anyone utilized, are going to be removed; this inevitably meaning that there will be a refund of their value and likewise a massive ISK pool given to those that did not use them. I don't need to explain why this, coupled with the Planetary Conquest ISK issue, is going to be very very bad. Consider this a formal appeal on behalf of an entire corporation to reconsider these changes until there is more drive behind them - less you be establishing a poor precedence. Edit: I'd also like to mention that these changes were not made aware of via the Dev Posts tab and can either be considered a blatant attempt to slip it past the community or a careless mishap of neglecting to post very important information that affects a percentage of your player base. Please work to ensure that this does not happen in the future.
Brush Master HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 912	Posted - 2013.10.17 13:14:00 - [64] - Quote Been saying it since it started and most of the damage is down with the isk already generated. the passive isk needs to go to 0, clones and free battles with those clones should be the benefit of a district Make battles worthwhile for the winner Increase number of clones in a pack back to 150 but leave the cost alone If 2.0 is going to be more than 3 months away, get some code in there that the first clone pack used with say 24 hrs is at a much lower rate and each pack you buy in the same time frame increases the pack cost. This is nothing for established corps sitting on billions but big for smaller corps that just want to try out in PC.
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 391	Posted - 2013.10.17 13:46:00 - [65] - Quote Please announce some sort of a PVE on districts mechanism in Vegas. Clone pack prices and clone sales seem to be good with the new numbers.
SteelDark Knight Ancient Exiles 128	Posted - 2013.10.17 14:24:00 - [66] - Quote Rogatien Merc wrote: By which I mean in a KISS kinda way... 1) Owning a district generates 5,000,000 ISK per 24 hours unrelated to clones in any way... just ownership. Attack timers remain based on current mechanics. [Edit: Edit: Removed edit... district has to remain worth attacking which the ISK generation motivates] 2) A district will generate clones at current rates until the district is full (production facilities allow smaller attacks, but more frequently... cargo hubs allow larger attacks but take longer to charge up). 3) Let the games begin. I personally like this idea or perhaps some variant of it. There is a need for income outside of taxes on the corporate level. Corporate income in a properly managed and fair corporation benefits the whole. The new, the poor, the less skilled, or those whom have a needed but high cost role (Vehicles). PC income as stated will only impact the 1% of players whom are active in it and will also have a negative effect on those with high cost roles in PC if there is no benefit for the corp to subsidize those roles.
Pr0phetzReck0ning KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 61	Posted - 2013.10.17 14:46:00 - [67] - Quote I personally think changing things for PC at this stage is seriously unreasonable and honestly you will be breaking it even further. My reasoning-- PC has too many problems with it currently: 1) the lag 2) the lack of territory one can actually claim without picking on a top Corp/Alliance and having them practically wipe you out in an instant and 3) the player base which is slowly but surely losing faith in this game and quitting the game entirely (this is important because if DUST loses players, Corps lose members, and if Corps lose members they lose active players that can assist in attacking/defending Districts) I agree with many of my peers when they say that nerfing the income of the Districts will cripple a Corps main source of income. This will definitely cripple the smaller Corps(indies) which are testing out PC for the first time and manage to get a District but at a much higher cost then what it's worth. I believe, as I'm sure many others do as well, that it is time to open up another region of Space for players to inhabit. We have been enclosed in this one tiny region for far too long and now everyone who is in PC is practically tired and fed up of being shoulder to shoulder with one another. With all the technical difficulties and lack of territory to inhabit, PC is not that rewarding nor, dare I say, FUN. This change would make sense if we had more Space to explore and inhabit, but right now it's just one big messy pissing contest. So let's hold off on these changes shall we?? Best, Pr0phet
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 2044	Posted - 2013.10.17 15:00:00 - [68] - Quote I agree something had to be done to prevent it being profitable to lock your own districts. This should never have been the case yet it was, and is now fixed. HOWEVER, the method in which the duct tape is being applied this time is going to adversely affect a lot more than you think. does it affect those like myself? not in the least. If I want to lock districts I can afford to for many many months, even at a loss. Obviously this would be silly, but just a case in point. Decreasing the payout in matches is going to deter corps from getting into PC even more, and is going to slow down activity in Molden Heath even amongst the current active corps. There are better ways to nerf the economy and to prevent locking of own districts... just requires a hands on approach that we've all seen over and over isn't what CCP wants to do. generating code to simply identify AFK matches (treat all as noshows) simply generates 0 isk. biomass sales and everything are declared 0. so no isk would be generated from an AFK match. if a match is a true noshow, the winning team takes (or holds) the district, no isk generated for either side. DEcreasing biomass across the board is going to put even more of a black eye on PC. those that play it already deal with poor servers, as well as maps that cater to noskillonroof tactics and essentially unilateral gameplay. now add to this that there will be ZERO profit for ANYONE involved... this includes participants, hired mercs will quickly become a thing of the past, and Everyone will be losing isk just from participating now. poorly thought way to address the issue of locking your own districts.
SteelDark Knight Ancient Exiles 128	Posted - 2013.10.17 15:34:00 - [69] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: As someone who plays a lot of PC I really like these changes. Both corps I have been in it was never really our desire to hold districts then you become bogged down with defending stacked timers etc.. What this will finally allow is us to attack at will leaving a path if destruction. No more concern about holding anything. It will make attacking much more fun. However what is the incentive for the defending team to show up? What is the value of holding a district if you don't make much from it? Kinda seems like it will be roaming packs of killers with no reason to hold what you took In the end what I envision is a new type of farming. Simply put the strong corps will farm the weaker corps but stop short of taking the district. Rinse and repeat over and over again. Why hold the district when the benefit is minimal? Why fight anyone that may be difficult other than bragging rights? The strong will get stronger and the weak shall be farmed.
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws 1344	Posted - 2013.10.17 15:35:00 - [70] - Quote SteelDark Knight wrote: The strong will get stronger and the weak shall be farmed. So.... business as usual?

Kain Spero MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 2119	Posted - 2013.10.17 15:36:00 - [71] - Quote The long run proposal would actually be an increase in biomass payout (from 150k to 160k).
SteelDark Knight Ancient Exiles 129	Posted - 2013.10.17 15:42:00 - [72] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: SteelDark Knight wrote: The strong will get stronger and the weak shall be farmed. So.... business as usual? Fair point.
XEROO COOL Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 32	Posted - 2013.10.17 15:48:00 - [73] - Quote CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote: DEcreasing biomass across the board is going to put even more of a black eye on PC. those that play it already deal with poor servers, as well as maps that cater to noskillonroof tactics and essentially unilateral gameplay. now add to this that there will be ZERO profit for ANYONE involved... this includes participants, hired mercs will quickly become a thing of the past, and Everyone will be losing isk just from participating now. ^^^^ this.
Andrew Ka Hollowed Kings 33	Posted - 2013.10.17 16:07:00 - [74] - Quote Egypt Musk wrote: Seriously this is the fluff you reply to what is your problem sir ... As opposed to your aggressive and threatening posts? Grow up.
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 1994	Posted - 2013.10.17 16:27:00 - [75] - Quote Hmm...so glancing at this thread, it looks like corps in PC are now going to be rewarded more for fighting than farming? And that farming is now more tedious and less profitable? And people are mad at that? Seems like we're moving in the right direction. However, something needs to be done about the clone pack size! Perhaps modular clone packs could be in order? Allow corps to purchase in blocks of 25 or 50. Want to launch a 225 clone attack? No problem! But it will cost more than if you moved them from your own district.
Hawkin P molon labe. RISE of LEGION 285	Posted - 2013.10.17 17:41:00 - [76] - Quote The more I think about it. The stupider this idea becomes. Using your proposed numbers for next week (60k per clone sold and 160k for clones killed) You are only increasing the amount that players get at the end of battles (by 6.6%) Corps still get nothing from attacking and winning. NTM there is an overall loss of ISK from PC, BC you are decreasing the amount a corp gets from selling clones by 60%. This doesn't encourage a corp to attack because either way a corp will only be losing money by attacking, the only ISK won from a battle would be from the taxes they get from their player's wins.
kiarbanor S.e.V.e.N. 228	Posted - 2013.10.17 17:58:00 - [77] - Quote As stated before, there are more pressing concerns with PC other than isk generation. However, with that being the topic of this thread, here are some of my ideas on how to fix PC: Any corp that is interested in PC should be able to buy a "production facility" type of district. These districts can not be attacked, and you can't make any isk off them. They simply sit in some non-disclosed place, generating a certain amount of clones. It's the "home base" of your corp. Let's say your production facility can hold 500 clones at a time. From there, you can launch attacks on real districts. These real districts do not generate clones, though. They only generate isk. Make it whatever you want; they could produce certain elements or materials that are sold. Whatever, but they don't generate clones. You have to make it worthwhile for corporations to want to own and defend these districts. Each district can only garrison so many clones. The attacking corporation will get a lot of isk for attacking a district and winning the battle. The defending disctrict will get nothing as a reward other than--if they win--they will keep the district and the isk it generates. All the while, you're home base will generate more clones to the max of 500, which you can then use to attack another district. To top this off, a corporation can then "garrison" that real district in order to help with the next attack. However, there are only so many clones each corp can have in Molden Heath at one time. Let's put a maximum of 1500 on the "game board" at one time. This will limit the amount of districts one corp can properly defend. Let's say you have to have at least 250 clones garrisoned on a district in order to "own" it. I haven't thought all this through, but it would give every single corp--that wants to buy a home base in PC--the ability to attack without continuously buying clone packs; also, they would be able to move all 500 clones to take over a district, if they so choose. It would also give a reason to hold and defend districts. Again, haven't thought this all the way through; I'm sure there are big holes in this, but I think this would generate more interest and strategy. Happy Gaming!!!
TheWee BabySeamus Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder. 42	Posted - 2013.10.17 19:37:00 - [78] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Hey guys, With tomorrows (October 17th) downtime we will be making some changes to the price clones in planetary conquest. The changes are as follows: Clone sell price changed from 150,000 ISK to 110,000 ISK. Biomass price of clones (clones killed in battle) changed from 150,000 ISK to 100,000 ISK. I owe you all an apology for the incredibly late notice on this. It is my fault and I take responsibility for that. With that being said we are also looking at changing these numbers again next week in a fairly dramatic fashion. The current numbers favor players selling the clones they have instead of using them for fighting. What we would like to do next week is change the numbers to the following: Clone sell price changed to 60,000 ISK. Biomass price of clones (clones killed in battle) to 160,000 ISK. Those changes would make it so that you make far more money by attacking. Before making a huge change like that however we would like to get some feedback. TL;DR: Clone prices in planetary conquest are going down slightly tomorrow. Discussion happening here about making big change to clone prices. I guess this looks ok, we'll have to see how it actually plays out. But here is an Idea for you SoxFour.......................TALK TO YOUR FELLOW CCP GUYS AND FIX THE LAG IN PC. No offense but no one really will give a **** about these changes or any changes made to PC until the lag problems are sorted out. I have been playing PC matches almost daily since PC was introduced and we are still seeing the same problems. People hard freezing, people lagging out in the WB, 2 frames a second at points in PC, horrid hit detection. FIX THIS THEN YOU CAN MAKE MORE MEANINGFUL CHANGES TO PC THAT PEOPLE WILL ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT. P.S. I know this isn't your department within the game, but I can GUARANTEE that you know who is in charge of this area so talk to your boy. PC is the only thing to do in this game and it is pretty terrible. Just sayin.................................Also ETA on new Racial heavies?!?!?!?!?!
NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 84	Posted - 2013.10.17 21:39:00 - [79] - Quote This is New Eden, It can police itself. Add in who the attackers are to the API dumps. Spreed sheet nerds will figure out who needs a spanking. Then, Allow more then one challenger to attack districts, within a hour of the attack order some one else can also attempt to attack and luck of the draw who gets the attack. Then it's not 100% that a alt corp and lock a district.
Salviatino Maiano Hollowed Kings 48	Posted - 2013.10.18 03:09:00 - [80] - Quote Base clone value off number of available clones? Changing market based on availability of clones. more clones cheaper prices less clones higher prices. more attacking can get more expensive to control expansion and less attacking can become unprofitable to control stagnation.

Salviatino Maiano Hollowed Kings 49	Posted - 2013.10.18 03:13:00 - [81] - Quote Maybe limiting number of clones to X amount per corporation member, setting a cap per member. Although this may kill small corporations but it will force some to band together, just an idea.
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 771	Posted - 2013.10.18 13:30:00 - [82] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Honestly, why not just change it to 60k and 160k tomorrow? With Corp taxes now in effect, Corps can just raise the tax if theyre running low on funds. Seems a lot better than nerfing individuals ISK payout and then buffing it higher than it was to start with a week later. Honestly, because it a far more dramatic change and I wanted to be sure the community had time to respond and provide feedback on that change. That's why you're the best.
Cenex Langly D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 261	Posted - 2013.10.18 17:11:00 - [83] - Quote ::Checks calendar to make sure it's not April 1st...::: Are you ******* mad? You're making these changes almost immediately, with no heads up... Nothing. Now all the corporations that have worked so hard and finally earned districts will be making crap money. The last 2 months all these other groups milked the heck out of the districts with no one attacking them and now the rest of us, who worked so hard to overthrow the conquerors get nothing for this. What kind of shame are you bringing to your family with this garbage. You disappointed me for the last time.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1332	Posted - 2013.10.18 17:19:00 - [84] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Honestly, why not just change it to 60k and 160k tomorrow? With Corp taxes now in effect, Corps can just raise the tax if theyre running low on funds. Seems a lot better than nerfing individuals ISK payout and then buffing it higher than it was to start with a week later. Honestly, because it a far more dramatic change and I wanted to be sure the community had time to respond and provide feedback on that change. So its less dramatic to nerf individual payouts by 50k than it is to buff it by 10k? I can see how its less dramatic for the clone sell on the corp end, but if the goal is to get people fighting then the proposed change that will happen next week is what you want. Right now youre planning on hardcore nerfing individual payouts and nerfing the corp payout to a lesser degree. Therefore, that is LESS incentive to fight. Why fight and lose clones when you can not fight and gain more isk overall by selling those clones? So once again, just do the 60k and 160k tomorrow. Im usually a SocksFan, but Im not following you on this one. The dramatic part is shifting the main money making over to having to be in a battle killing clones. Hell I even thought about just setting clone sell value to 0 ISK. >.< To be honest, you and I may just disagree on which change is more dramatic. Not much I can do about that. I am more sad that it has taken me this long to get around to looking at and changing these numbers. Kind of kicking myself in the ass about that. Can't do anything about the past though. This still does not change the fact that location has no relevance in PC. If it was not for unlimited clone packs you would be able to take a pocket of systems and make ISK from farming clones in the back without resorting to cheesy tactics such as locking your own system, as long as you could defend your front lines. It would make holding an area meaningful. Once again I suggest that Clone packs should only be deployable from high sec systems, with standard clone death on travel mechanic, making systems gain more strategic value the deeper they are into Low Sec, and giving location relevance again.
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 96	Posted - 2013.10.18 17:23:00 - [85] - Quote The notice on this is horrendous. These types of changes needed to happen MONTHS ago when EON was farming the **** out of PC. Regarding the specifics of the changes I agree with an earlier poster that their should be a reward for holding a district not for clone sales. IMO if you're touching the numbers you should fix them all: Clone pack gives you 125 clones and costs 10 million. Corporation gets 5 million a day for holding a district (or clone sales since you probably can't change dynamics easily, so 5 mil / 80 clones = x per clone). ISK payout to mercs in a battle should remain the same. High payout for all that expensive gear your loosing in the fight. Regarding pack size 120 clones does the job, although you have to be good if your fighting a good corp. I'm glad it changed from the hundred you used to get, that was BS.
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 2058	Posted - 2013.10.18 17:32:00 - [86] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Remove isk reward completely from PC and implement a better way to reward players/corps. Technically I dont even think clone packs should cost any isk whatsoever. The isk is great to start...because you need isk to get involved in PC (36mil for clone pack) and to stay involved in PC you need to generate the revenue to run proto gear. Give isk only for battles and make it a couple mil for each player. But don't give passive isk generation to corps. Removing the ISK parameter from that equation will help to level the field for those ahead who were able to milk the isk from the previous iteration of PC. Rewards you could give instead of isk for districts. additional skill points for all members in that corp (either booster like or more passive) Officer gear given after every day of downtime....or a higher percent chance in pub matches Reduced % cost in market for every district held. Be creative and give us rewards we can't find outside of PC. That will drive conflict. awesome ideas
Toyboi The Rainbow Effect 143	Posted - 2013.10.18 17:56:00 - [87] - Quote i know this is slightly offtopic but wouldent it be a great idea to actually make pc matches playable instead of this lag fest we are seeing now? imho you should focus on that not everything around the true problem.
trollsroyce Ametat Security Amarr Empire 660	Posted - 2013.10.18 22:12:00 - [88] - Quote I think the change is very good as an immediate fix. It is definitely needed to curb farming before the economies are properly linked, otherwise the risk of a single coalition using PC as an isk printer for EVE is reality. I'm sure the possibility of self attacking and killing clones for district lockdowns on frontline planets, to simultaneously generate relatively decent clone kill income from own killed clones, has been examined and calculated? It would be the obvious exploit I'd run to suggest to a coalition. Just cba thinking through if it's viable :)
Dandeth Adloth ReDust Inc. 4	Posted - 2013.10.19 11:07:00 - [89] - Quote Can you please take PC out of the game! It serves no pupose. Please take note that all players of this game are waiting since forever for completion of the basics! So give us the remaining racial suits and weapons. Do not do anything else before that! Give us the market to sell all the crap that has accumulated in our locker. Then, work on meaningful game variants like protect the digger: Have Eve Players own districts with the possibility to deploy surface assets (factories, mining facilities, etc.) Then let these Eve players fight over these assets using us Dust players (we are Mercs right). Please spare us all this spreadsheet bs nobody wants in a shooter. Give us diverse battles with different map loadouts depending on assets that are to be protected. Give us 1 Headquarter for the corp, where we are based and can walk around to show of, our favourite suits and train for battle Map with deployable structures. CCP You do not get that shooter players are not interested in spreadsheet immersion, we are interested in fps immersion! We need diverse battles and maybe a hangout, that's it! You will not get us more interested in this letdown of a game with those pathetic adjustments. Investments in the battles themselves is the only thing that will generate interest... Cheers
Kaios Family SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 47	Posted - 2013.10.20 22:58:00 - [90] - Quote yah this is a joke .... if you want to make PC attractive to players ... then FIX it right now PC is useless waist of time ... he who gets the leg losses and its not Evin like both teams are lagging ... only one team gets the leg. ive herd of CCP "interfering" in eve, and im starting to wonder ... does ccp interfere with dust so that they end up with the universe THEY want.

saxonmish Third Rock From The Sun 7	Posted - 2013.10.21 06:45:00 - [91] - Quote The thing you should change PC is the orbitals from the warbarge when this totally renders out the EVE players because when i had a district i had an EVE corp on overwatch and when it came down to the battle they still did orbs even tho they didnt have a ship. tbh it sucks if a dust corp dont have an eve side they shouldn't be able to drop orbitals.
Kain Spero MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 2130	Posted - 2013.10.21 16:17:00 - [92] - Quote Couldn't agree more with Dandeth's statement about the Eve players owning districts directly and then using Dust players as weapons of war, but I do think it should be considered as a hybrid role (either Dust or Eve side ownership and management). On the matter of the 60k passive clone sale and 160k biomass price. I do like the shift away from passive ISK generation and into active iSK that goes directly to the players doing the fighting. The ISK cost for self-locking also seems sufficiently high ( about 5 million ISK and 9 million ISK depending on the SI).
Skihids Bullet Cluster 2294	Posted - 2013.10.21 16:22:00 - [93] - Quote I don't see where it's possible to ISK balance PC as long as the reward for holding districts is paid out in the same currency that is used to hold a district (clones). Either it's profitable and therefore an ISK faucet, or it's an ISK sink and nobody will be involved. As long as participation is optional it will only be used if its an efficient way to produce money. The timers make it a chore and the lag reduces the fun, so there is no incentive other than bragging rights and an ISK farm. If you want participation AND no ISK faucet you need other incentives to hold land. Something like PVE, though you might get complaints from the player base if you force people to own districts before they can participate in a new game mode. In the end it's probably best to scrap PC and have EVE pilots hire DUST mercs to fight. The original idea was for DUST to be an IS sink for EVE, so just do it. Make it necessary to hold he ground before you can take the system. It can't be optional because then EVE pilots would simply choose the most ISK efficient method and throw more EVE resources at taking a system. Basically DUST becomes a tax on EVE pilots. They won't be happy about it, but what tax/ISK sink is popular?
Zombie Supreme Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 71	Posted - 2013.10.21 17:02:00 - [94] - Quote This is why this whole thing is pointless, it doesn't even keep people from locking down districts, and still make a profit. Here's how easy it would be to still lock it down and the numbers. Corp A Attacks Corp B with 150 clones moved from a district. The value of those clones which you have now drastically reduced is 9 mil. Plus a nominal transportation fee. You district is then locked for 2 days. You generate 4.8 or 6 mil a day. x2 = 9.6 to 12 mil. Just there you have broke even or made a small profit. Then if you run training matches and people actually die. Thats all that ISK is pure profit. This isn't going to change anything, it's about as useful as putting a band-aid on a gunshot wound.
hgghyujh expert intervention Caldari State 131	Posted - 2013.10.22 04:21:00 - [95] - Quote Egypt Musk wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Hey guys, With tomorrows (October 17th) downtime we will be making some changes to the price clones in planetary conquest. The changes are as follows: Clone sell price changed from 150,000 ISK to 110,000 ISK. Biomass price of clones (clones killed in battle) changed from 150,000 ISK to 100,000 ISK. I owe you all an apology for the incredibly late notice on this. It is my fault and I take responsibility for that. With that being said we are also looking at changing these numbers again next week in a fairly dramatic fashion. The current numbers favor players selling the clones they have instead of using them for fighting. What we would like to do next week is change the numbers to the following: Clone sell price changed to 60,000 ISK. Biomass price of clones (clones killed in battle) to 160,000 ISK. Those changes would make it so that you make far more money by attacking. Before making a huge change like that however we would like to get some feedback. TL;DR: Clone prices in planetary conquest are going down slightly tomorrow. Discussion happening here about making big change to clone prices. This Is Kinda BS for the corps that are taking districts and successfully defending ... Expect tickets evey day from my corp and all of our officers ( myself included) if you go through with this... It took us months to get where were at today and now your going to nerf are income. When eon was making hundreds of millions a day nothing was changed... WHERES MY CPM I WANT A MEATING ASAP! You need to find a better way to deal with the corps locking districts for profit and not penalize those that are not locking their districts.... Your a tool SoxFour I believe it's "you're a tool" and in that case you misspelled Egypt Musk at the end there. Its alright we know you are a tool dude.
Maximus Stryker Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 655	Posted - 2013.10.22 12:22:00 - [96] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Honestly, why not just change it to 60k and 160k tomorrow? With Corp taxes now in effect, Corps can just raise the tax if theyre running low on funds. Seems a lot better than nerfing individuals ISK payout and then buffing it higher than it was to start with a week later. Honestly, because it a far more dramatic change and I wanted to be sure the community had time to respond and provide feedback on that change. Good Call. Glad it wasn't knee jerk. I (we?) appreciate this approach greatly and thank you for taking it.
THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD 1154	Posted - 2013.10.22 16:22:00 - [97] - Quote saxonmish wrote: The thing you should change PC is the orbitals from the warbarge when this totally renders out the EVE players because when i had a district i had an EVE corp on overwatch and when it came down to the battle they still did orbs even tho they didnt have a ship. tbh it sucks if a dust corp dont have an eve side they shouldn't be able to drop orbitals. There is a reason for EVE orbitals. Hybrid Tactical strikes launched from a destroyer can easily have twice the range of a standard warbarge strike. Not to mention the other variants like the EMP. Plus, it allows us corps with experienced EVE players the ability to mess with other corp's EVE support, which is always hilarious.
AAA Hellcab Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 62	Posted - 2013.10.22 21:44:00 - [98] - Quote Knowing the problem is half the solution. So what is the problem? Locking Down? Why not make them able to be attacked at any time with a 30 MINUTE WARNING by anyone and then 'split'. If an alliance has enough AAA :) rated members online to defend it, so be it, they collect ISK and salvage from the attackers. If those members are sleeping, they can counter attack in their stronger 'timezone'. **** owning districts, it's time to introduce harvesting. The spice must flow. Ps I'm sleep deprived so please shoot holes into this theory :)
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2308	Posted - 2013.10.22 22:29:00 - [99] - Quote AAA Hellcab wrote: Knowing the problem is half the solution. So what is the problem? Locking Down? Why not make them able to be attacked at any time with a 30 MINUTE WARNING by anyone and then 'split'. If an alliance has enough AAA :) rated members online to defend it, so be it, they collect ISK and salvage from the attackers. If those members are sleeping, they can counter attack in their stronger 'timezone'. **** owning districts, it's time to introduce harvesting. The spice must flow. Ps I'm sleep deprived so please shoot holes into this theory :) That's easy. It's child's play to ambush someone if you get to pick the time and place. You pick an off hours time and assemble a fresh team to gank them. It would result in constant turnover or abandonment of the mode. Now with EVE pilots bringing in the warbarge in PC 2.0 you might allow shorter notices if they can sneak in. Longer transit times would give more notice, creating a sort of front.
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1545	Posted - 2013.10.23 16:11:00 - [100] - Quote Egypt Musk wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Egypt Musk wrote: This Is Kinda BS for the corps that are taking districts and successfully defending ... Expect tickets evey day from my corp and all of our officers ( myself included) if you go through with this... It took us months to get where were at today and now your going to nerf are income. When eon was making hundreds of millions a day nothing was changed... WHERES MY CPM I WANT A MEATING ASAP! You need to find a better way to deal with the corps locking districts for profit and not penalize those that are not locking their districts.... Your a tool SoxFour Egypt Musk wrote: Seriously this is the fluff you reply to what is your problem sir ... But I am just a tool... tools don't have self control. We just hit our head against walls. :( More seriously: I am not sure how much of a long story vs short story to make this so I am going to go more with short story. Short story: We had plans for planetary conquest that relied on other things. Those other things ended up getting shelved/delayed/dropped/just not delivered. We are working on the design for planetary conquest 2.0 that does a lot of things very differently. We are in no way shape or form ready to talk about those designs yet. Right now we need to do more work on the designs and then decide: Do we just sort of tweak numbers for the current planetary conquest and wait until 2.0 comes along for the complete revamp? Or is 2.0 going to take to long and we need to spend development time on fixing 1.0. Not so serious: You said you wanted a meeting with the CPM, called me a tool, and sort of threatened to make lots of petitions if we went through with these changes. You didn't try to have a conversation or anything like that. I am not sure what kind of response to make... Your plans are to make these changes with less than twelve hours notice you sir have left no time for a proper conversation or discussion on the topic before implementation and to be more realistic knowing how you work you would implement this anyways. So yes I do think deep inside your a tool and yes I do plan to launch a wave of tickets. I will stand down until my corps PR rep gets on but this is not over soxs WAA WAA WE WANT TO FARM!! WAA WAA!!!!

Soraya Xel New Eden's Most Wanted Top Men. 686	Posted - 2013.10.23 19:32:00 - [101] - Quote Within 24 hours, the only change made was a modest, and badly needed nerf to PC income. The conversation requested, with a week's notice, was a more drastic change.
Dauth Jenkins ZionTCO 0	Posted - 2013.10.24 05:32:00 - [102] - Quote Buzzwords wrote: i understand wanting to reduce the passive isk as it really cements momentum on a macro scale, but it does raise the question: what else IS there? if passive isk is removed, then all holding a district does (essentially) is get you cheap clone packs to attempt raids on other peoples districts. but those districts have no value except to feed raids on OTHER districts. that hardly seems worth worrying about defending? TLDR: i don't disagree with removing passive isk, but it needs to be replaced with something else. Instead of Isk, make it so the districts can produce things that would be usefully to people, Guns and ammo, vehicles, or even stuff we can sell to eve players...
stateproperty07 A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 15	Posted - 2013.10.29 02:39:00 - [103] - Quote want to make a real change to pc, how about keeping corps from locking their districts, it's annoying when you get attacked but cannot return the favor, this is a huge oversight, and many are doing this to protect themselves from having to participate in pc the way it was meant to be
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 795	Posted - 2013.10.30 20:38:00 - [104] - Quote stateproperty07 wrote: want to make a real change to pc, how about keeping corps from locking their districts, it's annoying when you get attacked but cannot return the favor, this is a huge oversight, and many are doing this to protect themselves from having to participate in pc the way it was meant to be he's right. if you're going to change the timer on your district you should be locked into it for a pre-set amount of time. changing timers non stop so you can't be attacked is a *****-move.
Ensar Cael Svartur Bjorn 23	Posted - 2013.10.31 16:42:00 - [105] - Quote I don't play PC and probably never will. I know a lot who do though and from their experiences and the posts on this forum, it seems to me that you need to change the way it all plays totally. First of all, Shouldn't mercs make their income from what they are best at - fighting? It should be that the EVE side own the planets and districts etc. We mercs just help them gain/ defend it. In this Factional Warfare could be about the planets/ sovereign territory and Planetary Conquest about the resources/ districts. In short, FW is for the empires to employ us and PC is for the EVE corporations to fight for. Second, why have all this notice and locking bullsht? Why not refer back to Aero Yassavi's post about using existing game modes to re-enact proper battle conditions. In PC it could be Ambush, Ambush OMS and a final domination to take the point totally. Third, all ISK should be received from the EVE corporations in proper contracts of attack and defense. They pay for and transport the clones, mercs do the fighting and dying as always. All ISK should go to the corporation who then uses it to kit out their units as needed in preparation for the next contracted fight. Getting notice of impending fights is ******* in my opinion, bring in the espionage and the EVE corporations already. Now, I know that there are a number of holes in my post that you will all tear into me for but I feel that we mercs shouldn't hold land. We should be paid by others to take or defend it. TL;DR - Bring in EVE contracts that pay the mercs to fight plus buy (and transport) clones. Take out the need to hold districts. Immortals warriors need war not land. Thanks for reading. Will leave you gents be now.
Kain Spero MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 2191	Posted - 2013.10.31 20:05:00 - [106] - Quote low genius wrote: stateproperty07 wrote: want to make a real change to pc, how about keeping corps from locking their districts, it's annoying when you get attacked but cannot return the favor, this is a huge oversight, and many are doing this to protect themselves from having to participate in pc the way it was meant to be he's right. if you're going to change the timer on your district you should be locked into it for a pre-set amount of time. changing timers non stop so you can't be attacked is a *****-move. Just as a point of information a district that displays as being "locked" can still be attacked. The only state that prevents an attack from being launched is a district already being under attack. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 108	Posted - 2013.11.01 01:30:00 - [107] - Quote So can we get an update on if your making the second set of changes or even better actually making corps loose ISK by attacking themselves or an ally (in order to just lock the district)? The state of at least 1/3 the districts in PC being constantly locked by their owners or an ally is disgraceful.
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 137	Posted - 2013.11.17 06:12:00 - [108] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Robert JD Niewiadomski wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: N1ck Comeau wrote: there needs to be a fix to corps attacking themselves with an alt corp just to lock districts. Tomorrows change makes it so that doing so will have to be done at a loss of ISK. How does it cost any money if biomass money is laundered back to the owner corp wallets through the alt corp members wallets? Help me to understand... Sure, let me break it down for you. I am going to break it down to how it looks after tomorrows changes, you can adjust the math for the proposed changes next week if you like. Actually, since I am lazy and don't feel like formating it to fit in a forum post, let me make a quick image for you: [img]http://i.imgur.com/vNkqWo2.png[/img] Hopefully that helps. So basically you make less. Money from defending than you spend on attacking What if your alt corp actually wins? Can you profit from that? Christ is lord Sanguine knights , open recruitment, join now. Free tacos
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 137	Posted - 2013.11.17 06:17:00 - [109] - Quote Cenex Langly wrote: ::Checks calendar to make sure it's not April 1st...::: Are you ******* mad? You're making these changes almost immediately, with no heads up... Nothing. Now all the corporations that have worked so hard and finally earned districts will be making crap money. The last 2 months all these other groups milked the heck out of the districts with no one attacking them and now the rest of us, who worked so hard to overthrow the conquerors get nothing for this. What kind of shame are you bringing to your family with this garbage. You disappointed me for the last time. Ikr wheres my turn at free isk:( Lol but seriously it ought to be nerfed more Christ is lord Sanguine knights , open recruitment, join now. Free tacos
Pisidon Gmen Ivory Vanguard 10	Posted - 2013.11.19 09:38:00 - [110] - Quote the biggest issue with pc battles i see is the lack of any smaller corp having a chance in hell of taking a sector or defending it it by some chance they get it . attacking clone count is too low giveing defenders more then 2x the clones is just stupid! who in there right mind sends troops to fight when there outnumbered 3 to 1? you don't do that with out some advantage like: surprise att? no they get more then 24 hr notice Superior weapons nope (seems like 95% of pc players all run proto) superior air or ground support 4 the troops better tanks or air force nope 2 good proto forge guns kill them off fast and or they have the same tanks available to them how about outer space ship support to call in supper weapons nope u don't have to have ships in orbit to get that thats a given if u get 2500 wp this is probly 1 of my bigest peves as several time we were orbital when we had space superiority with 3 ships to there 0 ships yet we got hit with 3 strikes from where were they called ?????????????????? from the mcc thats a few 100 m off ground? there needs to b some kind of pc 4 smaller corps to play with out having to call in 14 players from allies or just ringers to fight fore you the last pc we did was vs a corp with 39 players 2 from that corp showed and brought 14 off corp players to win . and the 3 orbitals they called in from no ware stopped us from having any chance to win as of right now we have no plans to do any pc battles soon



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