DUST Search - Announcement:Changes to Planetary Conquest

CCP FoxFour wrote:

RECON BY FIRE wrote:

CCP FoxFour wrote:

RECON BY FIRE wrote:

Honestly, why not just change it to 60k and 160k tomorrow? With Corp taxes now in effect, Corps can just raise the tax if theyre running low on funds. Seems a lot better than nerfing individuals ISK payout and then buffing it higher than it was to start with a week later.

Honestly, because it a far more dramatic change and I wanted to be sure the community had time to respond and provide feedback on that change.

So its less dramatic to nerf individual payouts by 50k than it is to buff it by 10k? I can see how its less dramatic for the clone sell on the corp end, but if the goal is to get people fighting then the proposed change that will happen next week is what you want. Right now youre planning on hardcore nerfing individual payouts and nerfing the corp payout to a lesser degree. Therefore, that is LESS incentive to fight. Why fight and lose clones when you can not fight and gain more isk overall by selling those clones? So once again, just do the 60k and 160k tomorrow. Im usually a SocksFan, but Im not following you on this one.

The dramatic part is shifting the main money making over to having to be in a battle killing clones. Hell I even thought about just setting clone sell value to 0 ISK. >.<

To be honest, you and I may just disagree on which change is more dramatic. Not much I can do about that. I am more sad that it has taken me this long to get around to looking at and changing these numbers. Kind of kicking myself in the ass about that. Can't do anything about the past though.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 10 post(s)
m twiggz Hollowed Kings 96	Posted - 2013.10.17 10:34:00 - [61] - Quote This may get rid of district locking and farming, finally. It also hurts small indie corps trying to train their members in PC. Yet another step by CCP to remove a broken game mechanic while punishing new players. Thank you.
Spectral Clone The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 243	Posted - 2013.10.17 10:38:00 - [62] - Quote These changes are good. We are mercs that are contracted to win battles, EVE players should do the farming after we are done with our job on the ground. Edit: For the future I would like to see a mechanic where your probability to loose the district increase over time. For example increased attacks per time unit or reduced clone regeneration over time. Would be an awesome mechanic. It does not make sense that every planet has infinite resources. Maybe EVE players need to transport clone goo to the planet or you will be ******.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3356	Posted - 2013.10.17 11:40:00 - [63] - Quote I'd like to make a formal apology on behalf of the corporation as there were some rather heated words thrown about in this thread recently that could have been conveyed with a bit more tact. As a budding corporation in Molden Heath we're directly affected by these changes at a rather ill-conceived time and there has been a bit of eyebrow raising toward it as it seems a bit like controversy to some degree, however small. Having just established a notable foothold this does limit our profits in a negative way and with little time to prepare for it - rather, to ease into it - we're left with a bit of frustration at the ill-timing. While it does seem a little odd that these changes occur after EON announced they'd be pulling out of PC after dominating the majority of the map, I'd like to believe that this is simply tin foil hattery, but it doesn't make me any less wary of it. These changes should have been implemented after receiving feedback from the community (something you, CCP, were -starting- to get better at) and it seems as though the changes were implemented by spontaneous reaction as opposed to legitimate concern for the game's health. What you now have is major power blocs which are wealthy and a change that only increases the disparity between the veterans and new introductions to Planetary Conquest - yet these changes came with an already ailing system, not with a revamped one such as Planetary Conquest 2.0. Needless to say, this is a very bad move to pull so late in the game and so early in the implementation of a new system. This is only going to get worse with 1.7 in which the x100 Falchions rewarded recently, which barely anyone utilized, are going to be removed; this inevitably meaning that there will be a refund of their value and likewise a massive ISK pool given to those that did not use them. I don't need to explain why this, coupled with the Planetary Conquest ISK issue, is going to be very very bad. Consider this a formal appeal on behalf of an entire corporation to reconsider these changes until there is more drive behind them - less you be establishing a poor precedence. Edit: I'd also like to mention that these changes were not made aware of via the Dev Posts tab and can either be considered a blatant attempt to slip it past the community or a careless mishap of neglecting to post very important information that affects a percentage of your player base. Please work to ensure that this does not happen in the future.
Brush Master HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 912	Posted - 2013.10.17 13:14:00 - [64] - Quote Been saying it since it started and most of the damage is down with the isk already generated. the passive isk needs to go to 0, clones and free battles with those clones should be the benefit of a district Make battles worthwhile for the winner Increase number of clones in a pack back to 150 but leave the cost alone If 2.0 is going to be more than 3 months away, get some code in there that the first clone pack used with say 24 hrs is at a much lower rate and each pack you buy in the same time frame increases the pack cost. This is nothing for established corps sitting on billions but big for smaller corps that just want to try out in PC.
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 391	Posted - 2013.10.17 13:46:00 - [65] - Quote Please announce some sort of a PVE on districts mechanism in Vegas. Clone pack prices and clone sales seem to be good with the new numbers.
SteelDark Knight Ancient Exiles 128	Posted - 2013.10.17 14:24:00 - [66] - Quote Rogatien Merc wrote: By which I mean in a KISS kinda way... 1) Owning a district generates 5,000,000 ISK per 24 hours unrelated to clones in any way... just ownership. Attack timers remain based on current mechanics. [Edit: Edit: Removed edit... district has to remain worth attacking which the ISK generation motivates] 2) A district will generate clones at current rates until the district is full (production facilities allow smaller attacks, but more frequently... cargo hubs allow larger attacks but take longer to charge up). 3) Let the games begin. I personally like this idea or perhaps some variant of it. There is a need for income outside of taxes on the corporate level. Corporate income in a properly managed and fair corporation benefits the whole. The new, the poor, the less skilled, or those whom have a needed but high cost role (Vehicles). PC income as stated will only impact the 1% of players whom are active in it and will also have a negative effect on those with high cost roles in PC if there is no benefit for the corp to subsidize those roles.
Pr0phetzReck0ning KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 61	Posted - 2013.10.17 14:46:00 - [67] - Quote I personally think changing things for PC at this stage is seriously unreasonable and honestly you will be breaking it even further. My reasoning-- PC has too many problems with it currently: 1) the lag 2) the lack of territory one can actually claim without picking on a top Corp/Alliance and having them practically wipe you out in an instant and 3) the player base which is slowly but surely losing faith in this game and quitting the game entirely (this is important because if DUST loses players, Corps lose members, and if Corps lose members they lose active players that can assist in attacking/defending Districts) I agree with many of my peers when they say that nerfing the income of the Districts will cripple a Corps main source of income. This will definitely cripple the smaller Corps(indies) which are testing out PC for the first time and manage to get a District but at a much higher cost then what it's worth. I believe, as I'm sure many others do as well, that it is time to open up another region of Space for players to inhabit. We have been enclosed in this one tiny region for far too long and now everyone who is in PC is practically tired and fed up of being shoulder to shoulder with one another. With all the technical difficulties and lack of territory to inhabit, PC is not that rewarding nor, dare I say, FUN. This change would make sense if we had more Space to explore and inhabit, but right now it's just one big messy pissing contest. So let's hold off on these changes shall we?? Best, Pr0phet
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 2044	Posted - 2013.10.17 15:00:00 - [68] - Quote I agree something had to be done to prevent it being profitable to lock your own districts. This should never have been the case yet it was, and is now fixed. HOWEVER, the method in which the duct tape is being applied this time is going to adversely affect a lot more than you think. does it affect those like myself? not in the least. If I want to lock districts I can afford to for many many months, even at a loss. Obviously this would be silly, but just a case in point. Decreasing the payout in matches is going to deter corps from getting into PC even more, and is going to slow down activity in Molden Heath even amongst the current active corps. There are better ways to nerf the economy and to prevent locking of own districts... just requires a hands on approach that we've all seen over and over isn't what CCP wants to do. generating code to simply identify AFK matches (treat all as noshows) simply generates 0 isk. biomass sales and everything are declared 0. so no isk would be generated from an AFK match. if a match is a true noshow, the winning team takes (or holds) the district, no isk generated for either side. DEcreasing biomass across the board is going to put even more of a black eye on PC. those that play it already deal with poor servers, as well as maps that cater to noskillonroof tactics and essentially unilateral gameplay. now add to this that there will be ZERO profit for ANYONE involved... this includes participants, hired mercs will quickly become a thing of the past, and Everyone will be losing isk just from participating now. poorly thought way to address the issue of locking your own districts.
SteelDark Knight Ancient Exiles 128	Posted - 2013.10.17 15:34:00 - [69] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: As someone who plays a lot of PC I really like these changes. Both corps I have been in it was never really our desire to hold districts then you become bogged down with defending stacked timers etc.. What this will finally allow is us to attack at will leaving a path if destruction. No more concern about holding anything. It will make attacking much more fun. However what is the incentive for the defending team to show up? What is the value of holding a district if you don't make much from it? Kinda seems like it will be roaming packs of killers with no reason to hold what you took In the end what I envision is a new type of farming. Simply put the strong corps will farm the weaker corps but stop short of taking the district. Rinse and repeat over and over again. Why hold the district when the benefit is minimal? Why fight anyone that may be difficult other than bragging rights? The strong will get stronger and the weak shall be farmed.
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws 1344	Posted - 2013.10.17 15:35:00 - [70] - Quote SteelDark Knight wrote: The strong will get stronger and the weak shall be farmed. So.... business as usual?

Kain Spero MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 2119	Posted - 2013.10.17 15:36:00 - [71] - Quote The long run proposal would actually be an increase in biomass payout (from 150k to 160k).
SteelDark Knight Ancient Exiles 129	Posted - 2013.10.17 15:42:00 - [72] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: SteelDark Knight wrote: The strong will get stronger and the weak shall be farmed. So.... business as usual? Fair point.
XEROO COOL Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 32	Posted - 2013.10.17 15:48:00 - [73] - Quote CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote: DEcreasing biomass across the board is going to put even more of a black eye on PC. those that play it already deal with poor servers, as well as maps that cater to noskillonroof tactics and essentially unilateral gameplay. now add to this that there will be ZERO profit for ANYONE involved... this includes participants, hired mercs will quickly become a thing of the past, and Everyone will be losing isk just from participating now. ^^^^ this.
Andrew Ka Hollowed Kings 33	Posted - 2013.10.17 16:07:00 - [74] - Quote Egypt Musk wrote: Seriously this is the fluff you reply to what is your problem sir ... As opposed to your aggressive and threatening posts? Grow up.
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 1994	Posted - 2013.10.17 16:27:00 - [75] - Quote Hmm...so glancing at this thread, it looks like corps in PC are now going to be rewarded more for fighting than farming? And that farming is now more tedious and less profitable? And people are mad at that? Seems like we're moving in the right direction. However, something needs to be done about the clone pack size! Perhaps modular clone packs could be in order? Allow corps to purchase in blocks of 25 or 50. Want to launch a 225 clone attack? No problem! But it will cost more than if you moved them from your own district.
Hawkin P molon labe. RISE of LEGION 285	Posted - 2013.10.17 17:41:00 - [76] - Quote The more I think about it. The stupider this idea becomes. Using your proposed numbers for next week (60k per clone sold and 160k for clones killed) You are only increasing the amount that players get at the end of battles (by 6.6%) Corps still get nothing from attacking and winning. NTM there is an overall loss of ISK from PC, BC you are decreasing the amount a corp gets from selling clones by 60%. This doesn't encourage a corp to attack because either way a corp will only be losing money by attacking, the only ISK won from a battle would be from the taxes they get from their player's wins.
kiarbanor S.e.V.e.N. 228	Posted - 2013.10.17 17:58:00 - [77] - Quote As stated before, there are more pressing concerns with PC other than isk generation. However, with that being the topic of this thread, here are some of my ideas on how to fix PC: Any corp that is interested in PC should be able to buy a "production facility" type of district. These districts can not be attacked, and you can't make any isk off them. They simply sit in some non-disclosed place, generating a certain amount of clones. It's the "home base" of your corp. Let's say your production facility can hold 500 clones at a time. From there, you can launch attacks on real districts. These real districts do not generate clones, though. They only generate isk. Make it whatever you want; they could produce certain elements or materials that are sold. Whatever, but they don't generate clones. You have to make it worthwhile for corporations to want to own and defend these districts. Each district can only garrison so many clones. The attacking corporation will get a lot of isk for attacking a district and winning the battle. The defending disctrict will get nothing as a reward other than--if they win--they will keep the district and the isk it generates. All the while, you're home base will generate more clones to the max of 500, which you can then use to attack another district. To top this off, a corporation can then "garrison" that real district in order to help with the next attack. However, there are only so many clones each corp can have in Molden Heath at one time. Let's put a maximum of 1500 on the "game board" at one time. This will limit the amount of districts one corp can properly defend. Let's say you have to have at least 250 clones garrisoned on a district in order to "own" it. I haven't thought all this through, but it would give every single corp--that wants to buy a home base in PC--the ability to attack without continuously buying clone packs; also, they would be able to move all 500 clones to take over a district, if they so choose. It would also give a reason to hold and defend districts. Again, haven't thought this all the way through; I'm sure there are big holes in this, but I think this would generate more interest and strategy. Happy Gaming!!!
TheWee BabySeamus Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder. 42	Posted - 2013.10.17 19:37:00 - [78] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Hey guys, With tomorrows (October 17th) downtime we will be making some changes to the price clones in planetary conquest. The changes are as follows: Clone sell price changed from 150,000 ISK to 110,000 ISK. Biomass price of clones (clones killed in battle) changed from 150,000 ISK to 100,000 ISK. I owe you all an apology for the incredibly late notice on this. It is my fault and I take responsibility for that. With that being said we are also looking at changing these numbers again next week in a fairly dramatic fashion. The current numbers favor players selling the clones they have instead of using them for fighting. What we would like to do next week is change the numbers to the following: Clone sell price changed to 60,000 ISK. Biomass price of clones (clones killed in battle) to 160,000 ISK. Those changes would make it so that you make far more money by attacking. Before making a huge change like that however we would like to get some feedback. TL;DR: Clone prices in planetary conquest are going down slightly tomorrow. Discussion happening here about making big change to clone prices. I guess this looks ok, we'll have to see how it actually plays out. But here is an Idea for you SoxFour.......................TALK TO YOUR FELLOW CCP GUYS AND FIX THE LAG IN PC. No offense but no one really will give a **** about these changes or any changes made to PC until the lag problems are sorted out. I have been playing PC matches almost daily since PC was introduced and we are still seeing the same problems. People hard freezing, people lagging out in the WB, 2 frames a second at points in PC, horrid hit detection. FIX THIS THEN YOU CAN MAKE MORE MEANINGFUL CHANGES TO PC THAT PEOPLE WILL ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT. P.S. I know this isn't your department within the game, but I can GUARANTEE that you know who is in charge of this area so talk to your boy. PC is the only thing to do in this game and it is pretty terrible. Just sayin.................................Also ETA on new Racial heavies?!?!?!?!?!
NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 84	Posted - 2013.10.17 21:39:00 - [79] - Quote This is New Eden, It can police itself. Add in who the attackers are to the API dumps. Spreed sheet nerds will figure out who needs a spanking. Then, Allow more then one challenger to attack districts, within a hour of the attack order some one else can also attempt to attack and luck of the draw who gets the attack. Then it's not 100% that a alt corp and lock a district.
Salviatino Maiano Hollowed Kings 48	Posted - 2013.10.18 03:09:00 - [80] - Quote Base clone value off number of available clones? Changing market based on availability of clones. more clones cheaper prices less clones higher prices. more attacking can get more expensive to control expansion and less attacking can become unprofitable to control stagnation.

Salviatino Maiano Hollowed Kings 49	Posted - 2013.10.18 03:13:00 - [81] - Quote Maybe limiting number of clones to X amount per corporation member, setting a cap per member. Although this may kill small corporations but it will force some to band together, just an idea.
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 771	Posted - 2013.10.18 13:30:00 - [82] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Honestly, why not just change it to 60k and 160k tomorrow? With Corp taxes now in effect, Corps can just raise the tax if theyre running low on funds. Seems a lot better than nerfing individuals ISK payout and then buffing it higher than it was to start with a week later. Honestly, because it a far more dramatic change and I wanted to be sure the community had time to respond and provide feedback on that change. That's why you're the best.
Cenex Langly D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 261	Posted - 2013.10.18 17:11:00 - [83] - Quote ::Checks calendar to make sure it's not April 1st...::: Are you ******* mad? You're making these changes almost immediately, with no heads up... Nothing. Now all the corporations that have worked so hard and finally earned districts will be making crap money. The last 2 months all these other groups milked the heck out of the districts with no one attacking them and now the rest of us, who worked so hard to overthrow the conquerors get nothing for this. What kind of shame are you bringing to your family with this garbage. You disappointed me for the last time.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1332	Posted - 2013.10.18 17:19:00 - [84] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: Honestly, why not just change it to 60k and 160k tomorrow? With Corp taxes now in effect, Corps can just raise the tax if theyre running low on funds. Seems a lot better than nerfing individuals ISK payout and then buffing it higher than it was to start with a week later. Honestly, because it a far more dramatic change and I wanted to be sure the community had time to respond and provide feedback on that change. So its less dramatic to nerf individual payouts by 50k than it is to buff it by 10k? I can see how its less dramatic for the clone sell on the corp end, but if the goal is to get people fighting then the proposed change that will happen next week is what you want. Right now youre planning on hardcore nerfing individual payouts and nerfing the corp payout to a lesser degree. Therefore, that is LESS incentive to fight. Why fight and lose clones when you can not fight and gain more isk overall by selling those clones? So once again, just do the 60k and 160k tomorrow. Im usually a SocksFan, but Im not following you on this one. The dramatic part is shifting the main money making over to having to be in a battle killing clones. Hell I even thought about just setting clone sell value to 0 ISK. >.< To be honest, you and I may just disagree on which change is more dramatic. Not much I can do about that. I am more sad that it has taken me this long to get around to looking at and changing these numbers. Kind of kicking myself in the ass about that. Can't do anything about the past though. This still does not change the fact that location has no relevance in PC. If it was not for unlimited clone packs you would be able to take a pocket of systems and make ISK from farming clones in the back without resorting to cheesy tactics such as locking your own system, as long as you could defend your front lines. It would make holding an area meaningful. Once again I suggest that Clone packs should only be deployable from high sec systems, with standard clone death on travel mechanic, making systems gain more strategic value the deeper they are into Low Sec, and giving location relevance again.
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 96	Posted - 2013.10.18 17:23:00 - [85] - Quote The notice on this is horrendous. These types of changes needed to happen MONTHS ago when EON was farming the **** out of PC. Regarding the specifics of the changes I agree with an earlier poster that their should be a reward for holding a district not for clone sales. IMO if you're touching the numbers you should fix them all: Clone pack gives you 125 clones and costs 10 million. Corporation gets 5 million a day for holding a district (or clone sales since you probably can't change dynamics easily, so 5 mil / 80 clones = x per clone). ISK payout to mercs in a battle should remain the same. High payout for all that expensive gear your loosing in the fight. Regarding pack size 120 clones does the job, although you have to be good if your fighting a good corp. I'm glad it changed from the hundred you used to get, that was BS.
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 2058	Posted - 2013.10.18 17:32:00 - [86] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Remove isk reward completely from PC and implement a better way to reward players/corps. Technically I dont even think clone packs should cost any isk whatsoever. The isk is great to start...because you need isk to get involved in PC (36mil for clone pack) and to stay involved in PC you need to generate the revenue to run proto gear. Give isk only for battles and make it a couple mil for each player. But don't give passive isk generation to corps. Removing the ISK parameter from that equation will help to level the field for those ahead who were able to milk the isk from the previous iteration of PC. Rewards you could give instead of isk for districts. additional skill points for all members in that corp (either booster like or more passive) Officer gear given after every day of downtime....or a higher percent chance in pub matches Reduced % cost in market for every district held. Be creative and give us rewards we can't find outside of PC. That will drive conflict. awesome ideas
Toyboi The Rainbow Effect 143	Posted - 2013.10.18 17:56:00 - [87] - Quote i know this is slightly offtopic but wouldent it be a great idea to actually make pc matches playable instead of this lag fest we are seeing now? imho you should focus on that not everything around the true problem.
trollsroyce Ametat Security Amarr Empire 660	Posted - 2013.10.18 22:12:00 - [88] - Quote I think the change is very good as an immediate fix. It is definitely needed to curb farming before the economies are properly linked, otherwise the risk of a single coalition using PC as an isk printer for EVE is reality. I'm sure the possibility of self attacking and killing clones for district lockdowns on frontline planets, to simultaneously generate relatively decent clone kill income from own killed clones, has been examined and calculated? It would be the obvious exploit I'd run to suggest to a coalition. Just cba thinking through if it's viable :)
Dandeth Adloth ReDust Inc. 4	Posted - 2013.10.19 11:07:00 - [89] - Quote Can you please take PC out of the game! It serves no pupose. Please take note that all players of this game are waiting since forever for completion of the basics! So give us the remaining racial suits and weapons. Do not do anything else before that! Give us the market to sell all the crap that has accumulated in our locker. Then, work on meaningful game variants like protect the digger: Have Eve Players own districts with the possibility to deploy surface assets (factories, mining facilities, etc.) Then let these Eve players fight over these assets using us Dust players (we are Mercs right). Please spare us all this spreadsheet bs nobody wants in a shooter. Give us diverse battles with different map loadouts depending on assets that are to be protected. Give us 1 Headquarter for the corp, where we are based and can walk around to show of, our favourite suits and train for battle Map with deployable structures. CCP You do not get that shooter players are not interested in spreadsheet immersion, we are interested in fps immersion! We need diverse battles and maybe a hangout, that's it! You will not get us more interested in this letdown of a game with those pathetic adjustments. Investments in the battles themselves is the only thing that will generate interest... Cheers
Kaios Family SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 47	Posted - 2013.10.20 22:58:00 - [90] - Quote yah this is a joke .... if you want to make PC attractive to players ... then FIX it right now PC is useless waist of time ... he who gets the leg losses and its not Evin like both teams are lagging ... only one team gets the leg. ive herd of CCP "interfering" in eve, and im starting to wonder ... does ccp interfere with dust so that they end up with the universe THEY want.



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