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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
saxonmish
Third Rock From The Sun
7
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Posted - 2013.10.21 06:45:00 -
[91] - Quote
The thing you should change PC is the orbitals from the warbarge when this totally renders out the EVE players because when i had a district i had an EVE corp on overwatch and when it came down to the battle they still did orbs even tho they didnt have a ship. tbh it sucks if a dust corp dont have an eve side they shouldn't be able to drop orbitals. |
Kain Spero
MoIden Heath PoIice Department
EoN.
2130
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Posted - 2013.10.21 16:17:00 -
[92] - Quote
Couldn't agree more with Dandeth's statement about the Eve players owning districts directly and then using Dust players as weapons of war, but I do think it should be considered as a hybrid role (either Dust or Eve side ownership and management).
On the matter of the 60k passive clone sale and 160k biomass price. I do like the shift away from passive ISK generation and into active iSK that goes directly to the players doing the fighting. The ISK cost for self-locking also seems sufficiently high ( about 5 million ISK and 9 million ISK depending on the SI). |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
2294
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Posted - 2013.10.21 16:22:00 -
[93] - Quote
I don't see where it's possible to ISK balance PC as long as the reward for holding districts is paid out in the same currency that is used to hold a district (clones).
Either it's profitable and therefore an ISK faucet, or it's an ISK sink and nobody will be involved. As long as participation is optional it will only be used if its an efficient way to produce money. The timers make it a chore and the lag reduces the fun, so there is no incentive other than bragging rights and an ISK farm.
If you want participation AND no ISK faucet you need other incentives to hold land. Something like PVE, though you might get complaints from the player base if you force people to own districts before they can participate in a new game mode.
In the end it's probably best to scrap PC and have EVE pilots hire DUST mercs to fight. The original idea was for DUST to be an IS sink for EVE, so just do it. Make it necessary to hold he ground before you can take the system. It can't be optional because then EVE pilots would simply choose the most ISK efficient method and throw more EVE resources at taking a system. Basically DUST becomes a tax on EVE pilots.
They won't be happy about it, but what tax/ISK sink is popular? |
Zombie Supreme
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
71
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Posted - 2013.10.21 17:02:00 -
[94] - Quote
This is why this whole thing is pointless, it doesn't even keep people from locking down districts, and still make a profit. Here's how easy it would be to still lock it down and the numbers.
Corp A Attacks Corp B with 150 clones moved from a district. The value of those clones which you have now drastically reduced is 9 mil. Plus a nominal transportation fee. You district is then locked for 2 days. You generate 4.8 or 6 mil a day. x2 = 9.6 to 12 mil.
Just there you have broke even or made a small profit. Then if you run training matches and people actually die. Thats all that ISK is pure profit.
This isn't going to change anything, it's about as useful as putting a band-aid on a gunshot wound.
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hgghyujh
expert intervention
Caldari State
131
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Posted - 2013.10.22 04:21:00 -
[95] - Quote
Egypt Musk wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Hey guys, With tomorrows (October 17th) downtime we will be making some changes to the price clones in planetary conquest. The changes are as follows:
- Clone sell price changed from 150,000 ISK to 110,000 ISK.
- Biomass price of clones (clones killed in battle) changed from 150,000 ISK to 100,000 ISK.
I owe you all an apology for the incredibly late notice on this. It is my fault and I take responsibility for that. With that being said we are also looking at changing these numbers again next week in a fairly dramatic fashion. The current numbers favor players selling the clones they have instead of using them for fighting. What we would like to do next week is change the numbers to the following:
- Clone sell price changed to 60,000 ISK.
- Biomass price of clones (clones killed in battle) to 160,000 ISK.
Those changes would make it so that you make far more money by attacking. Before making a huge change like that however we would like to get some feedback. TL;DR: Clone prices in planetary conquest are going down slightly tomorrow. Discussion happening here about making big change to clone prices. This Is Kinda BS for the corps that are taking districts and successfully defending ... Expect tickets evey day from my corp and all of our officers ( myself included) if you go through with this... It took us months to get where were at today and now your going to nerf are income. When eon was making hundreds of millions a day nothing was changed... WHERES MY CPM I WANT A MEATING ASAP! You need to find a better way to deal with the corps locking districts for profit and not penalize those that are not locking their districts.... Your a tool SoxFour
I believe it's "you're a tool" and in that case you misspelled Egypt Musk at the end there. Its alright we know you are a tool dude.
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Maximus Stryker
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
655
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Posted - 2013.10.22 12:22:00 -
[96] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:RECON BY FIRE wrote:Honestly, why not just change it to 60k and 160k tomorrow? With Corp taxes now in effect, Corps can just raise the tax if theyre running low on funds. Seems a lot better than nerfing individuals ISK payout and then buffing it higher than it was to start with a week later. Honestly, because it a far more dramatic change and I wanted to be sure the community had time to respond and provide feedback on that change.
Good Call. Glad it wasn't knee jerk.
I (we?) appreciate this approach greatly and thank you for taking it. |
THUNDERGROOVE
ZionTCD
1154
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Posted - 2013.10.22 16:22:00 -
[97] - Quote
saxonmish wrote:The thing you should change PC is the orbitals from the warbarge when this totally renders out the EVE players because when i had a district i had an EVE corp on overwatch and when it came down to the battle they still did orbs even tho they didnt have a ship. tbh it sucks if a dust corp dont have an eve side they shouldn't be able to drop orbitals.
There is a reason for EVE orbitals. Hybrid Tactical strikes launched from a destroyer can easily have twice the range of a standard warbarge strike. Not to mention the other variants like the EMP. Plus, it allows us corps with experienced EVE players the ability to mess with other corp's EVE support, which is always hilarious. |
AAA Hellcab
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
62
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Posted - 2013.10.22 21:44:00 -
[98] - Quote
Knowing the problem is half the solution. So what is the problem? Locking Down? Why not make them able to be attacked at any time with a 30 MINUTE WARNING by anyone and then 'split'. If an alliance has enough AAA :) rated members online to defend it, so be it, they collect ISK and salvage from the attackers. If those members are sleeping, they can counter attack in their stronger 'timezone'. **** owning districts, it's time to introduce harvesting. The spice must flow.
Ps I'm sleep deprived so please shoot holes into this theory :) |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2308
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Posted - 2013.10.22 22:29:00 -
[99] - Quote
AAA Hellcab wrote:Knowing the problem is half the solution. So what is the problem? Locking Down? Why not make them able to be attacked at any time with a 30 MINUTE WARNING by anyone and then 'split'. If an alliance has enough AAA :) rated members online to defend it, so be it, they collect ISK and salvage from the attackers. If those members are sleeping, they can counter attack in their stronger 'timezone'. **** owning districts, it's time to introduce harvesting. The spice must flow.
Ps I'm sleep deprived so please shoot holes into this theory :)
That's easy. It's child's play to ambush someone if you get to pick the time and place. You pick an off hours time and assemble a fresh team to gank them. It would result in constant turnover or abandonment of the mode.
Now with EVE pilots bringing in the warbarge in PC 2.0 you might allow shorter notices if they can sneak in. Longer transit times would give more notice, creating a sort of front. |
Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1545
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Posted - 2013.10.23 16:11:00 -
[100] - Quote
Egypt Musk wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Egypt Musk wrote:This Is Kinda BS for the corps that are taking districts and successfully defending ... Expect tickets evey day from my corp and all of our officers ( myself included) if you go through with this... It took us months to get where were at today and now your going to nerf are income. When eon was making hundreds of millions a day nothing was changed... WHERES MY CPM I WANT A MEATING ASAP!
You need to find a better way to deal with the corps locking districts for profit and not penalize those that are not locking their districts.... Your a tool SoxFour Egypt Musk wrote:Seriously this is the fluff you reply to what is your problem sir ... But I am just a tool... tools don't have self control. We just hit our head against walls. :( More seriously: I am not sure how much of a long story vs short story to make this so I am going to go more with short story. Short story: We had plans for planetary conquest that relied on other things. Those other things ended up getting shelved/delayed/dropped/just not delivered. We are working on the design for planetary conquest 2.0 that does a lot of things very differently. We are in no way shape or form ready to talk about those designs yet. Right now we need to do more work on the designs and then decide: Do we just sort of tweak numbers for the current planetary conquest and wait until 2.0 comes along for the complete revamp? Or is 2.0 going to take to long and we need to spend development time on fixing 1.0. Not so serious: You said you wanted a meeting with the CPM, called me a tool, and sort of threatened to make lots of petitions if we went through with these changes. You didn't try to have a conversation or anything like that. I am not sure what kind of response to make... Your plans are to make these changes with less than twelve hours notice you sir have left no time for a proper conversation or discussion on the topic before implementation and to be more realistic knowing how you work you would implement this anyways. So yes I do think deep inside your a tool and yes I do plan to launch a wave of tickets. I will stand down until my corps PR rep gets on but this is not over soxs
WAA WAA WE WANT TO FARM!! WAA WAA!!!! |
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Soraya Xel
New Eden's Most Wanted
Top Men.
686
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Posted - 2013.10.23 19:32:00 -
[101] - Quote
Within 24 hours, the only change made was a modest, and badly needed nerf to PC income. The conversation requested, with a week's notice, was a more drastic change. |
Dauth Jenkins
ZionTCO
0
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Posted - 2013.10.24 05:32:00 -
[102] - Quote
Buzzwords wrote:i understand wanting to reduce the passive isk as it really cements momentum on a macro scale, but it does raise the question: what else IS there?
if passive isk is removed, then all holding a district does (essentially) is get you cheap clone packs to attempt raids on other peoples districts.
but those districts have no value except to feed raids on OTHER districts.
that hardly seems worth worrying about defending?
TLDR: i don't disagree with removing passive isk, but it needs to be replaced with something else.
Instead of Isk, make it so the districts can produce things that would be usefully to people, Guns and ammo, vehicles, or even stuff we can sell to eve players... |
stateproperty07
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
15
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Posted - 2013.10.29 02:39:00 -
[103] - Quote
want to make a real change to pc, how about keeping corps from locking their districts, it's annoying when you get attacked but cannot return the favor, this is a huge oversight, and many are doing this to protect themselves from having to participate in pc the way it was meant to be |
low genius
The Sound Of Freedom
Renegade Alliance
795
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Posted - 2013.10.30 20:38:00 -
[104] - Quote
stateproperty07 wrote:want to make a real change to pc, how about keeping corps from locking their districts, it's annoying when you get attacked but cannot return the favor, this is a huge oversight, and many are doing this to protect themselves from having to participate in pc the way it was meant to be
he's right. if you're going to change the timer on your district you should be locked into it for a pre-set amount of time. changing timers non stop so you can't be attacked is a *****-move. |
Ensar Cael
Svartur Bjorn
23
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Posted - 2013.10.31 16:42:00 -
[105] - Quote
I don't play PC and probably never will. I know a lot who do though and from their experiences and the posts on this forum, it seems to me that you need to change the way it all plays totally.
First of all, Shouldn't mercs make their income from what they are best at - fighting? It should be that the EVE side own the planets and districts etc. We mercs just help them gain/ defend it. In this Factional Warfare could be about the planets/ sovereign territory and Planetary Conquest about the resources/ districts. In short, FW is for the empires to employ us and PC is for the EVE corporations to fight for.
Second, why have all this notice and locking bullsh*t? Why not refer back to Aero Yassavi's post about using existing game modes to re-enact proper battle conditions. In PC it could be Ambush, Ambush OMS and a final domination to take the point totally.
Third, all ISK should be received from the EVE corporations in proper contracts of attack and defense. They pay for and transport the clones, mercs do the fighting and dying as always. All ISK should go to the corporation who then uses it to kit out their units as needed in preparation for the next contracted fight.
Getting notice of impending fights is ******** in my opinion, bring in the espionage and the EVE corporations already.
Now, I know that there are a number of holes in my post that you will all tear into me for but I feel that we mercs shouldn't hold land. We should be paid by others to take or defend it.
TL;DR - Bring in EVE contracts that pay the mercs to fight plus buy (and transport) clones. Take out the need to hold districts. Immortals warriors need war not land.
Thanks for reading. Will leave you gents be now. |
Kain Spero
MoIden Heath PoIice Department
EoN.
2191
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Posted - 2013.10.31 20:05:00 -
[106] - Quote
low genius wrote:stateproperty07 wrote:want to make a real change to pc, how about keeping corps from locking their districts, it's annoying when you get attacked but cannot return the favor, this is a huge oversight, and many are doing this to protect themselves from having to participate in pc the way it was meant to be he's right. if you're going to change the timer on your district you should be locked into it for a pre-set amount of time. changing timers non stop so you can't be attacked is a *****-move.
Just as a point of information a district that displays as being "locked" can still be attacked. The only state that prevents an attack from being launched is a district already being under attack.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
108
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Posted - 2013.11.01 01:30:00 -
[107] - Quote
So can we get an update on if your making the second set of changes or even better actually making corps loose ISK by attacking themselves or an ally (in order to just lock the district)? The state of at least 1/3 the districts in PC being constantly locked by their owners or an ally is disgraceful. |
deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
137
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Posted - 2013.11.17 06:12:00 -
[108] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Robert JD Niewiadomski wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:N1ck Comeau wrote:there needs to be a fix to corps attacking themselves with an alt corp just to lock districts. Tomorrows change makes it so that doing so will have to be done at a loss of ISK. How does it cost any money if biomass money is laundered back to the owner corp wallets through the alt corp members wallets? Help me to understand... Sure, let me break it down for you. I am going to break it down to how it looks after tomorrows changes, you can adjust the math for the proposed changes next week if you like.  Actually, since I am lazy and don't feel like formating it to fit in a forum post, let me make a quick image for you: [img]http://i.imgur.com/vNkqWo2.png[/img] Hopefully that helps.
So basically you make less. Money from defending than you spend on attacking
What if your alt corp actually wins?
Can you profit from that?
Christ is lord
Sanguine knights , open recruitment, join now.
Free tacos
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deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
137
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Posted - 2013.11.17 06:17:00 -
[109] - Quote
Cenex Langly wrote:::Checks calendar to make sure it's not April 1st...:::
Are you ******* mad? You're making these changes almost immediately, with no heads up... Nothing.
Now all the corporations that have worked so hard and finally earned districts will be making crap money. The last 2 months all these other groups milked the heck out of the districts with no one attacking them and now the rest of us, who worked so hard to overthrow the conquerors get nothing for this.
What kind of shame are you bringing to your family with this garbage. You disappointed me for the last time.
Ikr wheres my turn at free isk:(
Lol but seriously it ought to be nerfed more
Christ is lord
Sanguine knights , open recruitment, join now.
Free tacos
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Pisidon Gmen
Ivory Vanguard
10
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Posted - 2013.11.19 09:38:00 -
[110] - Quote
the biggest issue with pc battles i see is the lack of any smaller corp having a chance in hell of taking a sector or defending it it by some chance they get it .
attacking clone count is too low giveing defenders more then 2x the clones is just stupid! who in there right mind sends troops to fight when there outnumbered 3 to 1? you don't do that with out some advantage like:
surprise att? no they get more then 24 hr notice
Superior weapons nope (seems like 95% of pc players all run proto)
superior air or ground support 4 the troops better tanks or air force nope 2 good proto forge guns kill them off fast and or they have the same tanks available to them
how about outer space ship support to call in supper weapons nope u don't have to have ships in orbit to get that thats a given if u get 2500 wp this is probly 1 of my bigest peves as several time we were orbital when we had space superiority with 3 ships to there 0 ships yet we got hit with 3 strikes from where were they called ?????????????????? from the mcc thats a few 100 m off ground?
there needs to b some kind of pc 4 smaller corps to play with out having to call in 14 players from allies or just ringers to fight fore you the last pc we did was vs a corp with 39 players 2 from that corp showed and brought 14 off corp players to win .
and the 3 orbitals they called in from no ware stopped us from having any chance to win
as of right now we have no plans to do any pc battles soon |
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