So the effective range of an HMG is 15-20 meters right? well if you buff it by 10 meters, heavys will be good, AR nubs will have to keep a distance and boom, balance.

This I can get behind.

HMG needs a slight buff...

I have a heavy alt and was a heavy back in Chromosome. Heavies are in a sorry state right now. Nowhere near as bad as scouts and dropship pilots but it's pretty bad. Current gameplay has been reduced to solving every situation's problem with an AR. :/

I dunno if a 10m effective range would really solve much, but testing it out would be nice.

So the effective range of an HMG is 15-20 meters right? well if you buff it by 10 meters, heavys will be good, AR nubs will have to keep a distance and boom, balance.

So the effective range of an HMG is 15-20 meters right? well if you buff it by 10 meters, heavys will be good, AR nubs will have to keep a distance and boom, balance.

I agree. AR has some great range, 10 or so more would go a long way into making the hmg viable in more situations rather then peek a Bo around corners. Won't help it much in PC though if this is all it gets. Heavies play mostly city, no need for more range. What we do need is doom mode turn speed increased. Otherwise using it vs strafing is pointless, I can't use me weapon often at its best damage output, forcing me to dance too. I could tank through his ar if the doom mode turned faster more often then not I betcha.

Or they could do the smart thing and revert the HMG's stats back to what they were in Chromosme- without sharpshooter. They tried to fix something that wasn't broken to the point that the only heavies I'm afraid of either have forge guns or ARs.

This I can get behind.

I use HMGs almost never, but when I do, I actually do better than with my SCR and AR. My WP is lower, as I can't carry equipment, but my KDR with it is around 20.
I didn't use HMGs when Sharpshooter was a Skill onto its own, so I can't compare. I do know Heavies were gods on the battlefield back then, so perhaps HMG users became spoiled?

If used properly, there is no beating a Heavy outright. They are meant to lock down a choke point and dominate tight spaces. They are meant to just kill, kill, kill and thats what they do when used as intended.

Now, a Heavy needs a Logi too, they work as a team. Heavies may not trample the battlefield anymore, but they are still massively effective.
HMGs, like SCRs, are great in the right hands. The players that know how to control engagements. Heavies can't just rely on being beefed up walking HAVs anymore they actually have to play with concern.

My vote: HMGs are fine right now.

Whatever Lance/Himuko/SoTa/Warlord said He's got pretty much the same opinion as every other Heavy and due to the fact that as a side role I run heavy I'm going to have to agree with them... (that's 4 people, but trust me they all want heavies and HMGs to get buffed...)

Just played a match, where a heavy was about 30 yards out, and he was shooting at me with my trusty ScR, and all his shots landed I the dust around me, and the ones that hit probable did like 7 damage.

Herp-a-Derp.

Mininiguns in real life have a range of 1000meters. Thats way more than any assault rifle.

Just going to leave this here

You can have real world minigun ranges when we get real world AR ranges

snip

I ran Gatsun's at the end of a match right before downtime. Probably died 5 times, but it didn't matter because if the downtime happens before the match is over you don't lose anything :)

This is supposedly the best HMG in the game and I figured it would destroy players at slightly longer range than I usually use my other HMGs at....

Turned out I was wrong. I felt like I was downing players just as fast as normal. Man, I miss the HMG back in Chromosome. Such an amazing weapon.

Mininiguns in real life have a range of 1000meters. Thats way more than any assault rifle.

Just going to leave this here

I'm sorry...but you're talking about using advanced gear in public matches aren't you?

Next thing you're talking to seasoned veteran heavies, and want to tell us how to play a class some us have played since closed beta?

I appreciate your TL;DR post, but you saying the HMG is fine is like me saying the dropships are fine because I can get to point B from A just fine. I just need to watch out for buildings and FGs on the way

The HMG is not fine. It was fine in Chromosome, it was passable in Uprising up until 1.4 or whenever they fixed the AA. Right now, it is not fine. It's borderline useless in competitive matches. It does NOTHING that a Duvolle wielding player can't do better.

People judging a class off pub games is the reason why the heavy is such a joke in competitive situations! Stop saying it's fine cuz you play pub games 24/7 and do good against bad players using cheap suits!

People judging a class off pub games is the reason why the heavy is such a joke in competitive situations! Stop saying it's fine cuz you play pub games 24/7 and do good against bad players using cheap suits!

I would not call a basic suit with a total cost of 20k isk for advanced geat and I get more kills with this than my proto gallente duvolle suit. And I would not call myself green as I have been playing since January.

If you are a vet and do poorly with the current HMG in pub matches, you are not very good at this. I would think a vet should know how to use the HMG properly by now. I read these threads as posted by new HMG players playing the heavy class wrong thinking they are a one man army.

Read my post before commenting on what I have written, I am trying to note down how I manage to run the HMG successfully and provide additional input instead of just saying that HMG sucks. I cannot shoot down AR users at 50 meters etc.

I have no experiences from PC and cannot comment on using the HMG in anything but pub matches, I have no interest in participating in PC matches, tried it twice with way to much lagging playing from Europe. I did participate in several corp matches pre Uprising using officer HMG, I had sharpshooter at 5 but stayed between buildings and never really needed the extra range.
Even then you would be insane for engaging ARs in open terrain, not to mention the laser rifles which could melt my proto heavy in a second before Uprising. My survival rate has improved as heavy in Uprising then before Uprising. Not to mention the price of the heavy which has dropped significantly, I remember suits costing 400k isk running a heavy.

I have killed proto players with my HMG and have been killed plenty of times by proto players. I am fully aware of its limitations, you must be crazy if you try to go against a good proto squad even with a boundless. I have seen many good proto squads whom do not try to engage my heavy 1v1 but flank me or spam grenades at me knowing I am slow. This is all fair in my book, the heavy cannot and should not be able to take on a whole squad alone. He can hold them back from entering a hallway with suppression while your team mates support with AR, grenades and mass drivers.

No descent proto AR player would willingly enter a cqc 1v1 vs a proto heavy. They either take the heavy down at a distance and flank him before opening fire. I see nothing wrong here.

The HMG dps is fine, the suit using it cannot compete with quick proto shield tanked suits.

lol...

you mean potential DPS. The numbers you watch is based on every single bullet hitting, which is a range of about 0-2m. After that bullet spread lowers DPS the further away the target is.

anybody doing bad in any class in pub games in DUST is bad. I can use a militia suit with militia guns and can almost guarantee I finish top 5... in PUBLIC LOBBIES.

Doesn't mean militia gear is good.

Your point of view comes from playing people in these lobbies. Until you've played competitive matches, your opinion on the class means next to nothing when veteran players are talking about the class.

I've been playing this since last year June. I know a thing or 2 about heavies and what that used to be, and the joke it is now. I take great offense to people calling the HMG "fine". Know why? Because I invested a huge chunk of my 21 million SP into the class, and i've seen how weak it is while playing against good players.

Then when I switch to my other class, my "weaker" class because I have less SP invested into it, i do better.

Please, I mean no offense, and it's nothing personal, but take your public game experience elsewhere. This thread is about making the HMG better, not leaving it alone because in your limited experience it's "fine"

Even with every bullet hitting, you're only dealing 25% more damage than an Assault Rifle user within optimal. Really, everything can out DPS the HMG.

Then please explain how it is that I consistently can win 1v1 in cqc vs AR users. I am big and slow and should be easy to hit with the aim assist and yet I win most of these encounters.
I can keep the button pressed and shooting for far longer time than the AR player have to reload and switch weapon unless it is a logi with no sidearm.

Then please explain how it is that I consistently can win 1v1 in cqc vs AR users. I am big and slow and should be easy to hit with the aim assist and yet I win most of these encounters.
I can keep the button pressed and shooting for far longer time than the AR player have to reload and switch weapon unless it is a logi with no sidearm.

What matters is the ratio, since the scale of the battlefields and the flow of combat is not the same as real life. You want real life ranging? Alright, let's scale it down by 10 from real life. Enjoy 50m Assault Rifles and 100m Heavy Machine Guns.

Who even cares what they are in real life, anyways? These are not real guns. All that matters is balance.

In real life it only takes one bullet to completely disable/kill a soldier, and body armor isn't ablative. Reality is irrelevant.

I use HMGs almost never, but when I do, I actually do better than with my SCR and AR. My WP is lower, as I can't carry equipment, but my KDR with it is around 20.
I didn't use HMGs when Sharpshooter was a Skill onto its own, so I can't compare. I do know Heavies were gods on the battlefield back then, so perhaps HMG users became spoiled?

If used properly, there is no beating a Heavy outright. They are meant to lock down a choke point and dominate tight spaces. They are meant to just kill, kill, kill and thats what they do when used as intended.

Now, a Heavy needs a Logi too, they work as a team. Heavies may not trample the battlefield anymore, but they are still massively effective.
HMGs, like SCRs, are great in the right hands. The players that know how to control engagements. Heavies can't just rely on being beefed up walking HAVs anymore they actually have to play with concern.

My vote: HMGs are fine right now.

When I heard there's a guy out there holding down a 20 KDR with his HMG I had to look you up. Imagine my surprise when I saw your KDR was 1.12. Maybe in the game you're playing in your head with your imaginary friends the HMG is beast, but it's not in the game the rest of us are playing.

No, no, no. He just forgot the radix point.

I'm sorry if you don't like it, but there's this little thing called math. You can calculate the DPS and compare them yourself. Go ahead.

Also, how much health do you have compared to your opponent? In CQC, you should be doing about the same damage or slightly less after inaccuracy. As long as you're both holding your cursors over each other, you'll win because of higher HP if the AR doesn't headshot. Let me remind you that the AR can headshot and do 50% more damage, instantly making it far more damaging to you even IF you land every single bullet. Good luck getting headshots with your HMG.

I kill Heavies all the time with a Standard Logi fit and Standard SMG. They have twice my health almost and a HMG, yet I kill them by hopping like an idiot and headshotting them.

Keep in mind this is about the gun and not the suit. If you used an Assault Rifle instead of a HMG, you'd probably be just as lethal at CQC and far more lethal at medium range.

Hehe, yes, I have been killed by jumping rabbits a few times. But using the mouse usually lets me track players like you even when you are jumping around. I have killed players in advanced gear I would normally consider very skilled in cqc 1v1 with the HMG, as long as you are keeping 1-2 meters distance, any closer and I loose my orientation due to lack of FPS skills and end up spraying wildly around me.

Let me explain how I get most of my kills as a heavy. I stay defending staircases or doorways, shooting as they enter. My crosshair is already on the target as they enter the doorway while they have to spend a second locating me and moving their aim to me unless they are very skilled at FPS. Most back off or if in militia suits dies before returning the fire. I can keep shooting for a long time, use ADS and most suits goes down quickly.

It is another situation you describe where we jump each other, I try to avoid these situations unless I have 1-2 team mates behind me. Sometimes I just functions as a moveable barrier for team mates, being the first to enter a doorway, shoot a little and moving back to cover. My team mates move forward at the same time, using me as cover while shooting at the red dots inside the doorway. Sometimes our team succeed in getting the defending group to back away.

I hate skilled FPS players like you there is no arguing that a skilled AR FPS player is deadly in most situations and is experienced enough to know when to back off, being to fast to catch for a heavy.

When I heard there's a guy out there holding down a 20 KDR with his HMG I had to look you up. Imagine my surprise when I saw your KDR was 1.12. Maybe in the game you're playing in your head with your imaginary friends the HMG is beast, but it's not in the game the rest of us are playing.

Here's a different outtake:
You say the HMG is worse than Chromosome. So, do HMG users want it returned to that previous state?
What exactly do you want the HMG to be?

Because if I remember, the top players in the world were HMGs back then.

It comes back to the old DUST QQ-ing of people complaining their OP setup was taken back to normalcy. Just like Barry Bonds would QQ if they took his steroids away.
MD and Flaylock users QQ-ed too, so did Lasers. Gosh forbid the people around you have a fighting chance...

My KDR w/ the HMG is around 20. Go ahead and re-read my post, and actually pay attention to details, not just picking out pieces and leaving out important details that only suit what you want to believe. Read, then think, then respond...
Want another interesting fact: My KDR with the SR is around 50....

I'll out DPS you guaranteed because ALL my bullets are hitting, and IF I have to reload I'm switching to my SMG with will also out DPS you.

You know what, screw waiting for others to do that math. I'll post it since everyone is too incompetent. A standard AR does 34 * 750 / 60 damage a second, which is 425. A standard HMG does 16 * 2000 / 60 damage a second, which is slightly over 530 damage a second. If all bullets hit, which is far from the truth. Even if they do, the AR can headshot for 640 damage a second. Viola, out damaged even if you land every shot.

Even with every bullet hitting, you're only dealing 25% more damage than an Assault Rifle user within optimal. Really, everything can out DPS the HMG.

Brilliant! So now, as well as being the best HMG currently in the game, you're also announcing that with the SR you're the best infantry player the game has ever seen!! All this for the low, low KDR of 1.12!!!

If you're such a beast with HMG and SR, why do you usually use AR and SCR, badly?

You know what, screw waiting for others to do that math. I'll post it since everyone is too incompetent. A standard AR does 34 * 750 / 60 damage a second, which is 425. A standard HMG does 16 * 2000 / 60 damage a second, which is slightly over 530 damage a second. If all bullets hit, which is far from the truth. Even if they do, the AR can headshot for 640 damage a second. Viola, out damaged even if you land every shot.

Now, as far as referencing KDR as a whole... that shows how much of a scrub anyone is.

You realize the top KDRs in the game are sniper? The ones with triple digits. Then HMGs (and FGs) are next.
Why?
Well if I have gone 200+/10 with the HMG over my lifetime, that would be a 20...

Wow, I really don't know how much of a scrub I am, do I.

Lance, I respect you as a Heavy proponent, but we both know that isn't true. Especially the SMG part. DPS is dependent on range and you're going to get obliterated by the HMG toe-to-toe. (Yes, provided the Heavy doesn't suck at aiming.)

Kinda sad that I have more respect for the SMG than I do for the bread and butter of heavies, the HMG.

it's the highest DPS weapon in the game. (Shotgun doesn't count until the bullets go where you fire.) It has its limitations, but's it's still damn good when used properly. "Properly" =/= trading shot-for-shot with an AR at range.

Actually when you factor in the dispersion, its dps is very comparable to the AR. For a round to do damage it has to hit its target.
The HMGs hip-fire is almost comical. The way the first second of rounds veer left and right like they aren't even coming from the same gun lol.

Compare this to real life and you'll probably chuckle a bit. I'm not saying this game should mirror actual life though.

Anyway in my opinion the HMG's bullet patterning needs a real rework. Just make the dispersion make sense is all. ie from
0-10m a not very noticeable spread, from then on it spreads linearly (a little at a time) and at 30m on it spreads exponentially (high increase in spread per meter).