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Sir Dukey
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
193
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Posted - 2013.10.16 00:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
So the effective range of an HMG is 15-20 meters right? well if you buff it by 10 meters, heavys will be good, AR nubs will have to keep a distance and boom, balance. |
Vitharr Foebane
Blood Money Mercenaries
130
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Posted - 2013.10.16 00:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:So the effective range of an HMG is 15-20 meters right? well if you buff it by 10 meters, heavys will be good, AR nubs will have to keep a distance and boom, balance. This I can get behind. |
Sir Dukey
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
195
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Posted - 2013.10.16 00:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:So the effective range of an HMG is 15-20 meters right? well if you buff it by 10 meters, heavys will be good, AR nubs will have to keep a distance and boom, balance. This I can get behind.
It's sad to see CCP rip their hair out because they try the complex way out. |
KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
1799
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Posted - 2013.10.16 00:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:HMG needs a slight buff...
Hmmm.... |
Bittersteel the Bastard
Hell's Gate Inc
669
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 00:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
I have a heavy alt and was a heavy back in Chromosome. Heavies are in a sorry state right now. Nowhere near as bad as scouts and dropship pilots but it's pretty bad. Current gameplay has been reduced to solving every situation's problem with an AR. :/
I dunno if a 10m effective range would really solve much, but testing it out would be nice. |
Sir Dukey
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
195
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Posted - 2013.10.16 00:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:HMG needs a slight buff... Hmmm....
To everyone.... |
Sir Dukey
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
197
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Posted - 2013.10.16 00:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bittersteel the Bastard wrote:I have a heavy alt and was a heavy back in Chromosome. Heavies are in a sorry state right now. Nowhere near as bad as scouts and dropship pilots but it's pretty bad. Current gameplay has been reduced to solving every situation's problem with an AR. :/
I dunno if a 10m effective range would really solve much, but testing it out would be nice.
30m effective range. |
Flix Keptick
Red Star. EoN.
770
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 01:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mininiguns in real life have a range of 1000meters. Thats way more than any assault rifle.
Just going to leave this here |
SoTa PoP
TeamPlayers EoN.
3832
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Posted - 2013.10.16 01:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
I agree. AR has some great range, 10 or so more would go a long way into making the hmg viable in more situations rather then peek a Bo around corners. Won't help it much in PC though if this is all it gets. Heavies play mostly city, no need for more range. What we do need is doom mode turn speed increased. Otherwise using it vs strafing is pointless, I can't use me weapon often at its best damage output, forcing me to dance too. I could tank through his ar if the doom mode turned faster more often then not I betcha. |
Doc Noah
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
650
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Posted - 2013.10.16 01:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
Buffing the range by 50%? I dont think you know what a "slight buff" is. |
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Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
4068
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Posted - 2013.10.16 01:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
lol not gonna happen. This game revolves around what makes the medium suit + AR the best. That's what the majority of players use, so CCP caters to them.
The HMG needed a buff a long time now, and it's sad that people are only now seeing it.
Heavies are glorified campers...lol. How pathetic. |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
766
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 01:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:So the effective range of an HMG is 15-20 meters right? well if you buff it by 10 meters, heavys will be good, AR nubs will have to keep a distance and boom, balance.
Good news everyone! The HMG was stealth buffed to 30m optimal range.
By "stealth buff" I mean it's always been that way, but you are now free to drop your inaccurate psychological limitations surrounding the weapon.
...
All sarcasm aside, it's the highest DPS weapon in the game. (Shotgun doesn't count until the bullets go where you fire.) It has its limitations, but's it's still damn good when used properly. "Properly" =/= trading shot-for-shot with an AR at range.
I sympathize with the plight of fatties-in-training, but use the weapon as it currently exists and not as what you think it should be, and you'll murder just fine. |
Mauren NOON
The Exemplars Top Men.
21
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Posted - 2013.10.16 01:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:So the effective range of an HMG is 15-20 meters right? well if you buff it by 10 meters, heavys will be good, AR nubs will have to keep a distance and boom, balance. I approve :) make AR 514 a bit more balanced |
Cosgar
ParagonX
6086
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Posted - 2013.10.16 01:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
SoTa PoP wrote:I agree. AR has some great range, 10 or so more would go a long way into making the hmg viable in more situations rather then peek a Bo around corners. Won't help it much in PC though if this is all it gets. Heavies play mostly city, no need for more range. What we do need is doom mode turn speed increased. Otherwise using it vs strafing is pointless, I can't use me weapon often at its best damage output, forcing me to dance too. I could tank through his ar if the doom mode turned faster more often then not I betcha. Or they could do the smart thing and revert the HMG's stats back to what they were in Chromosme- without sharpshooter. They tried to fix something that wasn't broken to the point that the only heavies I'm afraid of either have forge guns or ARs. |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
766
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 01:54:00 -
[15] - Quote
Cosgar wrote: Or they could do the smart thing and revert the HMG's stats back to what they were in Chromosme- without sharpshooter. They tried to fix something that wasn't broken to the point that the only heavies I'm afraid of either have forge guns or ARs.
HMG stats, with the exception of some dispersion stats which are 5% better now, are exactly the same as they were in Chromosome.
Technically, HMG has 0.4 more base damage than it did in Chromosome when you factor the Weapon Skill 10% bonus damage in.
Sharpshooter was the only thing that made the HMG beast in that build. And it was pretty lol. |
8213
Grade No.2
387
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Posted - 2013.10.16 02:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
I use HMGs almost never, but when I do, I actually do better than with my SCR and AR. My WP is lower, as I can't carry equipment, but my KDR with it is around 20. I didn't use HMGs when Sharpshooter was a Skill onto its own, so I can't compare. I do know Heavies were gods on the battlefield back then, so perhaps HMG users became spoiled?
If used properly, there is no beating a Heavy outright. They are meant to lock down a choke point and dominate tight spaces. They are meant to just kill, kill, kill and thats what they do when used as intended.
Now, a Heavy needs a Logi too, they work as a team. Heavies may not trample the battlefield anymore, but they are still massively effective. HMGs, like SCRs, are great in the right hands. The players that know how to control engagements. Heavies can't just rely on being beefed up walking HAVs anymore they actually have to play with concern.
My vote: HMGs are fine right now. |
Medic 1879
Forsaken Immortals Top Men.
1136
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 02:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:So the effective range of an HMG is 15-20 meters right? well if you buff it by 10 meters, heavys will be good, AR nubs will have to keep a distance and boom, balance. This I can get behind.
A friendly heavy with an HMG with that range? this I could hide behind with a rep tool. |
DeadlyAztec11
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
2243
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 02:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
8213 wrote:I use HMGs almost never, but when I do, I actually do better than with my SCR and AR. My WP is lower, as I can't carry equipment, but my KDR with it is around 20. I didn't use HMGs when Sharpshooter was a Skill onto its own, so I can't compare. I do know Heavies were gods on the battlefield back then, so perhaps HMG users became spoiled?
If used properly, there is no beating a Heavy outright. They are meant to lock down a choke point and dominate tight spaces. They are meant to just kill, kill, kill and thats what they do when used as intended.
Now, a Heavy needs a Logi too, they work as a team. Heavies may not trample the battlefield anymore, but they are still massively effective. HMGs, like SCRs, are great in the right hands. The players that know how to control engagements. Heavies can't just rely on being beefed up walking HAVs anymore they actually have to play with concern.
My vote: HMGs are fine right now. I just can't rap my head around why a heavy needs a logi, when an assault player can get equal or greater offensive capabilities by him/herself. |
Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
1455
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 02:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
Whatever Lance/Himuko/SoTa/Warlord said He's got pretty much the same opinion as every other Heavy and due to the fact that as a side role I run heavy I'm going to have to agree with them... (that's 4 people, but trust me they all want heavies and HMGs to get buffed...) |
XxWarlordxX97
Ancient Exiles
4716
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Posted - 2013.10.16 03:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
Killar-12 wrote:Whatever Lance/Himuko/SoTa/Warlord said He's got pretty much the same opinion as every other Heavy and due to the fact that as a side role I run heavy I'm going to have to agree with them... (that's 4 people, but trust me they all want heavies and HMGs to get buffed...)
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Powerh8er
Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men.
136
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Posted - 2013.10.16 03:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
Heavy machine guns: These weapons are designed to provide increased range, penetration and destructive power against vehicles, buildings, aircraft and light fortifications beyond the standard rifle calibers used in medium or general-purpose machine guns, or the intermediate cartridges used in light machine guns. In this sense, the "heavy" aspect of the weapon refers to its superior power and range over light- and medium-caliber weapons, in addition to its weight.
Yours truly, Wikipedia. |
DeadlyAztec11
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
2243
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 03:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
HMG's are said to swat out Dropships and smack clap LAV's in lore, but they can barely kill a scout in a reasonable time span in actuality. smh |
Meeko Fent
DUST University Ivy League
1197
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 03:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
Just played a match, where a heavy was about 30 yards out, and he was shooting at me with my trusty ScR, and all his shots landed I the dust around me, and the ones that hit probable did like 7 damage.
Herp-a-Derp. |
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
4070
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 05:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Just played a match, where a heavy was about 30 yards out, and he was shooting at me with my trusty ScR, and all his shots landed I the dust around me, and the ones that hit probable did like 7 damage.
Herp-a-Derp.
See, that's a bad heavy. A good heavy would have known to either get cover, or put his head between his legs, and kiss his arse goodbye. |
Acturus Galaxy
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
148
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Posted - 2013.10.16 08:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
In my opinion the HMG is fine in the current build, it is just not useful in all matches and circumstances. I used to play heavy only before Uprising and has just recently skilled into heavy again as I got tired waiting for the Gallente Heavy.
The heavy in current build works really good at point defending in the new urban maps in skirmish and domination matches. It also has its uses in regular ambush matches all depending on the team your are on.
My heavy suits is just the basic heavy with advanced HMG and I have two suits, one with the assault HMG and one with the MH-82 HMG. They only cost 20-30k isk and I very rarely go negative isk in the matches where I use the heavy. I love defending the letters inside the buildings in the new maps. Taking out red dot after red dot as they swarm into the doorway, seeing all the nice +50/+60 points flashing on my screen.
The assault HMG is actually very descent at longer ranges, my longest kill is 65 meters with the assault and that was in a 1v1 match. I know it was a militia dude and not a proto player but it still felt good.
1. Never stand still, strafe like crazy as if you were a medium AR user. It actually works really good to avoid getting killed. I have seen soo many heavies both now and before Uprising standing still relying on the armor to soak up the dps received. Even the slow dance deflects some of the dps.
2. Your HMG will severely slow down the opponent, they will most often panic when you start damaging their armor
3. Never run across open space unless you are 100% sure there is no red dot user within 100 meters.
4. Use a cheap scout with droplinks to place spawn points for your heavy in cover. Having your team spawn around your heavy as you defend the area give allot of WP.
5. Have a logi with repair hives. There are some skirmish maps where you have a supply depot close to some of the letters, drop allot of hives around the letter, run back and switch into your heavy. Have been in several matches where we were two heavies dancing around on my triage hives gunning down lots of reds as they tried to take the letter.
6. Use the heavy to counter another heavy defending a letter.
7. Make sure to always have team mates around you, you will need someone to cover your back and cover you when reloading or if the HMG overheats. I hate sneaky scouts sneaking up behind my back. NEVER RUN OFF ALONE.
8. Accept that in some matches you are better off with a AR medium suit. When your team are scattered you are better off with a quick AR suit, or hanging back and forge sniping.
9. Shield tank the basic heavy, my experience from playing Gallente is that shield beats armor unless you have a logi with you or can drop your own triage hives. My heavy with 500+ shield and 700+ armor (cannot remember the exact stats) is doing really good.
10 COVER, use the cover when you start taking damage, do not stand out in the open believing the HMG is godly. Stay close to cover just like a AR user. Take cover, get your shield recharged and return to combat.
11. Play the heavy/HMG as an AR medium frame. Except in 1v1 in cqc you are almost 100% sure to win and the opponent will most often try to run away.
12. Accept that a proto duvolle logi suit with complex damage mods will melt your basic heavy which is only fair. My heavy cost 21k isk, it would be unfair if I could take down several incoming proto suits costing close to 200k isk each.
13. Change into a cheap AR suit when the opposing team have thale and forge snipers on top of the buildings, the slow heavy is too easy a target.
I only have level 3 in HMG which is sufficient to me as I always run in cheap suits, my 247k isk logi suit is collecting dust, I very rarely run in anything above 40k isk and can keep a positive isk income in almost every match including a positive kdr and being in top 3. Except when I experiment with new weapons or the use of the assault HMG, then I tend to die allot ;)
Have seen some proto heavies in matches do very good and end up top of the leaderboards, their boundless melting my MH-82 build before I get their shields down. There is definitely some advantage to running proto heavy, I am just not ready to put in the isk needed, I have a mill unused sp at the moment, still waiting for the other racial heavy suits. |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
2139
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 08:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
Flix Keptick wrote:Mininiguns in real life have a range of 1000meters. Thats way more than any assault rifle.
Just going to leave this here
You can have real world minigun ranges when we get real world AR ranges |
Borne Velvalor
BLACK-DRAGON-SOCIETY
702
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 08:33:00 -
[27] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:Flix Keptick wrote:Mininiguns in real life have a range of 1000meters. Thats way more than any assault rifle.
Just going to leave this here You can have real world minigun ranges when we get real world AR ranges
What matters is the ratio, since the scale of the battlefields and the flow of combat is not the same as real life. You want real life ranging? Alright, let's scale it down by 10 from real life. Enjoy 50m Assault Rifles and 100m Heavy Machine Guns.
Who even cares what they are in real life, anyways? These are not real guns. All that matters is balance. |
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
4072
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 09:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
Acturus Galaxy wrote:snip
I'm sorry...but you're talking about using advanced gear in public matches aren't you?
Next thing you're talking to seasoned veteran heavies, and want to tell us how to play a class some us have played since closed beta?
I appreciate your TL;DR post, but you saying the HMG is fine is like me saying the dropships are fine because I can get to point B from A just fine. I just need to watch out for buildings and FGs on the way
The HMG is not fine. It was fine in Chromosome, it was passable in Uprising up until 1.4 or whenever they fixed the AA. Right now, it is not fine. It's borderline useless in competitive matches. It does NOTHING that a Duvolle wielding player can't do better.
People judging a class off pub games is the reason why the heavy is such a joke in competitive situations! Stop saying it's fine cuz you play pub games 24/7 and do good against bad players using cheap suits! |
I-Shayz-I
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
1090
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Posted - 2013.10.16 09:35:00 -
[29] - Quote
I ran Gatsun's at the end of a match right before downtime. Probably died 5 times, but it didn't matter because if the downtime happens before the match is over you don't lose anything :)
This is supposedly the best HMG in the game and I figured it would destroy players at slightly longer range than I usually use my other HMGs at....
Turned out I was wrong. I felt like I was downing players just as fast as normal. Man, I miss the HMG back in Chromosome. Such an amazing weapon. |
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
4073
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 09:40:00 -
[30] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:I ran Gatsun's at the end of a match right before downtime. Probably died 5 times, but it didn't matter because if the downtime happens before the match is over you don't lose anything :)
This is supposedly the best HMG in the game and I figured it would destroy players at slightly longer range than I usually use my other HMGs at....
Turned out I was wrong. I felt like I was downing players just as fast as normal. Man, I miss the HMG back in Chromosome. Such an amazing weapon.
Anything further than 5m and the cone of fire (bullet spread) is stupid. Fighting AR players is like farting against thunder. You might hear your fart now and then, but thunder > your fart. |
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