I feel like an increased rate of fire + increased recoil= an unsatisfying weapon

I have lvl 3 in all light weapons (except ARs, Swarms, Sniper Rifle, and MDs) that way i'll always have diversity in this game, and support this idea.

Are you serious a real AR 15 has over 500 yards in hitting a point target. I use to qualify at 500 yards in the Marine Corp and could hit 10 out of 10 rounds into a mans heart. The distance you suggest is near a SMG not a rifle. If they do decide to alter the AR they need to refund all SP to everyone that wishes to opt out.

Instead of adding overheat why not just reduce the clip size to 45-50.

Are you serious a real AR 15 has over 500 yards in hitting a point target. I use to qualify at 500 yards in the Marine Corp and could hit 10 out of 10 rounds into a mans heart. The distance you suggest is near a SMG not a rifle. If they do decide to alter the AR they need to refund all SP to everyone that wishes to opt out.

Not even reading original post.

Ar 15 has 400 yard range.
Ak 47 has 250 yard range.

How is it that in the future the ar has less range?

Seriously.....learn to creep on maps, use cover and fight by logis or in larger groups.

Are you serious a real AR 15 has over 500 yards in hitting a point target. I use to qualify at 500 yards in the Marine Corp and could hit 10 out of 10 rounds into a mans heart. The distance you suggest is near a SMG not a rifle. If they do decide to alter the AR they need to refund all SP to everyone that wishes to opt out.

None of the players in the above thread are good with the AR

... yet they constantly try to balance it

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

If CCP wants to balance they should ask the pros, via private channel

You do know that your range "tweaking" is the same as leaving the damn thing alone right and even increasing the optimal range on it by a bit right

**** like that is why I cant take the guys crying about the AR seriously, they dont seem to really understand how it ******* works in the first place and propose things that wont alter it at all in any real way

Just tone the optimal range and add more dispersion/kick. CCP made the biggest mistake by listening to kneejerk reactions during the first week of Uprising. Everyone was so used to sharpshooter and aiming was horrible, but instead of fixing the latter, they caved in and gave everyone automatic sniper rifles.

No they shouldn't. As I almost guarantee that if they take suggestions from people like you, then this will quickly turn into COD514.

Plus this is not your game. It's everyone's game. So everybody will, shall, should, and would have an equal say in what happens to it.

And I highly doubt that you have played with everyone in this thread to an extent where you can judge their performance with any weapon. Or could it be that you maybe are just saying this because you don't want anything to happen to your precious AR.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Go back to COD. We don't need you here.

CCP has already stated that the current version is temporary. Supposedly it will be reworked when the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle come in.

I believe it should be reworked NOT nerfed.

-Reduce the effective range to 35 meters(not when they register but how much damage is done at long ranges) after which the damage would abruptly drop to 50% and eventually drop to 25% after reaching 60 meters.
-Increase damage at 0 to 15 meter range.
-Increase rate of fire
-Increase recoil(due to increased recoil, not due to recoil increase per shot)
-Include over heat if more than 40 bolts are fired continuously*--READ NOTE--

The AR should be a glorified SMG with more damage, less rpm, less ammo, better range and slightly better recoil.

CCP has already stated that the current version is temporary. Supposedly it will be reworked when the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle come in.

I believe it should be reworked NOT nerfed.

-Reduce the effective range to 35 meters(not when they register but how much damage is done at long ranges) after which the damage would abruptly drop to 50% and eventually drop to 25% after reaching 60 meters.
-Increase damage at 0 to 15 meter range.
-Increase rate of fire
-Increase recoil(due to increased recoil, not due to recoil increase per shot)
-Include over heat if more than 40 bolts are fired continuously*--READ NOTE--

The AR should be a glorified SMG with more damage, less rpm, less ammo, better range and slightly better recoil.

Just my thoughts.


Note*:
Instead of over heat, how about increased muzzle flash after 30 shots? Not brighter, just bigger. That way, it is harder to spam shots from a long distance.

AR is already as good as, if not better than, specialty CQC weapons. HMG and Shotgun need to outperform AR upclose. No purpose to them otherwise.

Realistically, the AR should be nerfed at range, clip size reduced, and dispersion added.

Hip-fired rifles? Accurately? Srsly?

OK so now after your plan, given the open long range nature of Dust's maps, how long will it be before we see your next post whining about how the Scr can kill you at range now that every single player has respecced into the Scr.

Do you just keep going until everyone is using Nova Knives? This is a shooter, not Dirty Dancing.

Make an assault rifle's effective range at 35m? LOLLL! Surely you jest sir, surely. No AR weapon effective range stops at 35m. And it can't be a glorified SMG.

Some folks don't have a clue about what they are expressing about the weaponry...

AR is already as good as, if not better than, specialty CQC weapons. HMG and Shotgun need to outperform AR upclose. No purpose to them otherwise.

Realistically, the AR should be nerfed at range, clip size reduced, and dispersion added.

Hip-fired rifles? Accurately? Srsly?

I have been killed by AR's. I have been killed by Mass Drivers. I have been killed by HMG's, Scrambler Rifles, Laser Rifles, Flaylocks, Scrambler Pistols, Shot guns, Tanks, Dropships, Rail turrets, Blaster Turrets, Nova Knives, Plasma Cannons, SMG's, Grenades, Fast moving LAv's. I have been killed by all of these things, from Standard to Proto. Ive even had every kind of vehicle land on my head and kill me.

Everything in this game is lethal, its all just a matter of preference when we choose a weapon to kill each other with. Because you choose not to use AR's or maybe your just not any good with them, is no reason to type out countless posts about nerfing/rebalancing them. If you think it kills best or that its over powered... buy them and kill your friends with them. If CCP chooses to listen to you and nerf the weapon you disapprove of, it can only lead to one thing.


AR nerf happens...

one week later

Mass Drivers are OP!!! CCP nerf/rebalance them... Nerf happens.

one week later

HMG's are OP!!! CCP nerf/rebalance them... Nerf happens.

eventually... it rolls back around to...

AR's are OP!!! CCP nerf/rebalance them...

Leave it alone,. and CCP will determine whats OP and nerf at their convenience.

I didn't realize those guns used plasma good comparison

We also dont have short range plasma blasters in real life
gallente are supposed to have the shortest range of all the racial tech by far

Not even reading original post.

Ar 15 has 400 yard range.
Ak 47 has 250 yard range.

How is it that in the future the ar has less range?

Seriously.....learn to creep on maps, use cover and fight by logis or in larger groups.

I don't believe either of the weapons you just mentioned fire plasma.

Omg are you serious. Heavies almost always are crappy kids or people who cant play or aim who expect to hide behind armor. A good heavy kills you sir. Dont make me spec heavies and show you.

as far as out classing all cqc weapons. Thats actually really good dodging 90% of the time.

Okay I'll bite...

So weapons of the future should only have an effective range of 35m? Do you know how far 35m is? That's highly laughable to say that weapons of the future have an effective range of 35m, especially when we are in dropsuits that are constructed to optimize our performance.

a plasma weapon of that size, yes it would have an extremely short range - and we are not talking about every ******* weapon ever to be created by man, this is a gallente weapon = SHORT RANGE HIGH DAMAGE
stop ******* trying to compare **** to real life and the future

Hmmm In games with marginally HTK kill Hip has frequently been considerably arrurate.

Again Shotty, is making radical balance changes, yet not understanding the mechanics of the game.

And stop using obscene language to emphasize your point. If you have an extensive vocabulary, you can do so without the expletives.

Has nothing to do with comparison. I just find it funny that any rifle would have an effective range of 35m. It sounds absurd.

Second, short range could mean anything brain child. Short range doesn't mean 35m only.

So in a futuristic world where immortality is found...they build rifles that can only shoot at 35m, effectively?

Our dropsuits don't affect our performance?

It sounds as nonsensical as you angry tirade. Smoke a bowl...

Everything can be discussed and might be even reasonable, except overheat. I think they are supposed to be a really easy to use weapon, the classic and reliable "assault rifles" of other FPS games, like the M4 or the AK47.

I would just increase the recoil slightly rather than doing all that rework, I find that the majority of weapons in this game has already frustrating limited range. If anything, I would buff the both Scrambler variants' optimal range by 10%.

This is little of a nerf to the AR, but I really think it might be all we need. I don't see it this unbalanced... it may be just my opinion, but I think that an Imperail Scrambler is much better than a cheesy Duvolle... I don't get all the QQ. Meh...

The imperial is a really skill weapon i gotta say. If you heat up that first shoot and miss you know that you'r pretty much in a bad position from there because that the heat bar is already half full or something around there.

Regarding that the AR is meant to be a versatile gun like an AK and a M4 i must say no. The AR right now is exactly like a M4 with AK47 rounds. It's good in pretty much 85% of all gunfights you'll encounter but it should be much more of a close range gun. If we tune it into being more of a "AK47" dust version by keeping damage as it is, increasing recoil and then decreasing optimal range it'll be where it should be. (yes i do know an ak47 shoot is pretty much deadly even after flying around 2 km's so the range on that is pretty much damm good, but as we are seeking BALANCE such would be stupid)

Pretty much the biggest thing that has to happen is the range drop. This would make the AR a close range mediocre skill gun to use. And hey people have been screaming for indoors maps for forever now and still do (even though we got them now) so lets make that AR into a CQC weapon.

Are you serious a real AR 15 has over 500 yards in hitting a point target. I use to qualify at 500 yards in the Marine Corp and could hit 10 out of 10 rounds into a mans heart. The distance you suggest is near a SMG not a rifle. If they do decide to alter the AR they need to refund all SP to everyone that wishes to opt out.

If the AR becomes even more adept at CQC than it already is... then that spells trouble for all the other CQC weaponry that the AR already steps on the toes of.

As it stands, I've been outgunned by an AR using the HMG in its optimal range... I've been outgunned by an AR while using a shotgun in its optimal range... I've also been outgunned by an AR while using the SMG in its optimal range... Yeah, and that is not rare in the least.

If the AR is to be more CQC as per typical gallentean racial characteristics, then a bunch of weapons will be need of some more balancing as well.

Not even reading original post.

Ar 15 has 400 yard range.
Ak 47 has 250 yard range.

How is it that in the future the ar has less range?

Seriously.....learn to creep on maps, use cover and fight by logis or in larger groups.

I have level 3 in everything but forge guns, heavy machine guns, and plasma cannon. Who doesn't spec into everything to test everything out?

-You lost me at AR effective range at 35m

-You lost me at turning the AR (I repeat, an assault rifle) into a CQC weapon

I digress...it just doesn't make much sense all that you saying...

Do please enlighten us, great one.
How would you balance the AR?

Do you agree with Aldin Kan?
Or is he too beneath your vast understanding?

An AR 15 is not a Duvolle........................ an AR 15 is more like the Tactical Assault Rifle but better range and less damage.

If the AR becomes even more adept at CQC than it already is... then that spells trouble for all the other CQC weaponry that the AR already steps on the toes of.

As it stands, I've been outgunned by an AR using the HMG in its optimal range... I've been outgunned by an AR while using a shotgun in its optimal range... I've also been outgunned by an AR while using the SMG in its optimal range... Yeah, and that is not rare in the least.

If the AR is to be more CQC as per typical gallentean racial characteristics, then a bunch of weapons will be need of some more balancing as well.

If the AR becomes even more adept at CQC than it already is... then that spells trouble for all the other CQC weaponry that the AR already steps on the toes of.

As it stands, I've been outgunned by an AR using the HMG in its optimal range... I've been outgunned by an AR while using a shotgun in its optimal range... I've also been outgunned by an AR while using the SMG in its optimal range... Yeah, and that is not rare in the least.

If the AR is to be more CQC as per typical gallentean racial characteristics, then a bunch of weapons will be need of some more balancing as well.

'rubs temples' You realize that we are using blaster tech, right? This ain't a regular Assault Rifle, it's a Plasma Rifle. Get out of the Milky Way *****; This is New Eden. Get used to it.

Stop generalizing my ass because apparently you don't know my views.

I have been frequently called a COD noob because I have always DEFENDED the AR. I am not suggesting it get nerfed, I am saying it needs to be re-worked.

Also, explain to me how changing its optimal range from 65 to 35 would not be drastic.

My bad. Just figured being an assualt rifle and in the future it would be pretty good compared to simple earth weapons.

Crazy right?

My bad. Just figured being an assualt rifle and in the future it would be pretty good compared to simple earth weapons.

Crazy right?

My bad. Just figured being an assualt rifle and in the future it would be pretty good compared to simple earth weapons.

Crazy right?

if they incorperated drop then perhaps this wouldnt apear crazy, but apparently, there is no gravity in new eden. Or at least it affects eveything accept bullets.

Now that seems crazy to me

I dont think we're playing the same game. I can take out multiple people with a shotgun in a very short timespan. You'd be lucky just finishing off the second guy with the AR. I can twoshot a heavy or heavily fitted proto suits whereas my AR just barely has enough ammo to take one down in one mag.

The only times I lost to AR in CQC is either
a) I'm outside effective range (which is pretty short, I'll admit that)
b)hitreg f's me over
c) I miss

Under no circumstance would AR be able to output more DPS than a shotgun considering a shotgun can one shot newberries while ARs cant.

Same can be said about HMG, as long as they're in effective range, HMG chews through armor and shield like butter. If accuracy is an issue, then try crouching and zooming (assuming you're in range to still do decent damage). Bonus points if you play smart like hiding around corners or setting up shop ahead of time.

As for your comment about SMGs, the people who run around with SMG as a primary beg to differ. I would rank SMG in the same category as shotguns as a CQC primary given the damage, RoF, and magazine size it has.

The plasma would probably cool and turn into a gas before it would be noticeably affected by gravitational forces.

Considering virtually every single match I am in, I am on the receiving end of a pubstomp...

And the thing is, I have SMG proficiency 1 (and plan for it to go higher). Guess what? I often run with it as a primary. I can do well with it, by my standards ( 19:10, 2400 WP as a logi with an SMG). I still end up outgunned. Even when I use my tankier suits.

Same thing with the HMG. I have Proficiency 3, and have literally been firing at an enemy well within my optimal range, and they took the equivalent of NO DAMAGE. As for crouching: Lets become an even more stationary target! Every time I come across a crouching HMG heavy, regardless of what suit I am in, they are as good as toast. Because they can't move very well. Crouching is only good if you are not in optimal range. But even then, you are probably within optimal range of another weapon.

As for the shotgun, I have come around the corner, surprised some one, and connected two shots, and I died to point blank AR fire. Sure, as long as I sneak up on an enemy, they are dead. But if they see me, all they have to do is back up and fire (even when I use my medium frame suits). And guess what? I've done this to many a shotgunner. It can't really go toe to toe with an AR and win as often as it should.

If you have not been outgunned by an AR as much as I have, then you are lucky. Alas, I am not, and as such, I frequently get out gunned by an AR even when I have the upper-hand with my non-AR.

Because its optimal is not 65 meters right now its around 35 so your "tweaking" is just leaving it at what it is right now
The reason people keep dying outside its optimal is simple, they dont serpentine in the open and they dont take cover when its available
And full auto spraying does adversely affect your tracking which is why the smart players fire in bursts, its not my fault you cant tell bursts in rapid succession from full auto

Hmm... Most peculiar. Most likely has to do with hit detection.

I just had a game today where I melted two heavies in quick succession. I ran into a building and saw two heavies. Knowing I was out gunned, I ran back and crouched behind some boxes. I aimed down the sight and shot for their heads. Poor fools didn't even last 5 seconds. Oh they shot back, but their dispersion was horrible; they strafed side to side trying to avoid my bullets. Oddly enough, they hurt themselves more by moving so much.

The HMG class is difficult. It only works if you can set yourself up in a good stationary position. CCP always said the Sentinel was primarily for point defense, I think they went a little to far. Regardless, you need to stop using the HMG like a big AR. That type of play style completely contradicts the HMG's strengths.

Make an assault rifle's effective range at 35m? LOLLL! Surely you jest sir, surely. No AR weapon effective range stops at 35m. And it can't be a glorified SMG.

Some folks don't have a clue about what they are expressing about the weaponry...

Not even reading original post.

Ar 15 has 400 yard range.
Ak 47 has 250 yard range.

How is it that in the future the ar has less range?

Seriously.....learn to creep on maps, use cover and fight by logis or in larger groups.

Make an assault rifle's effective range at 35m? LOLLL! Surely you jest sir, surely. No AR weapon effective range stops at 35m. And it can't be a glorified SMG.

Some folks don't have a clue about what they are expressing about the weaponry...

Dude you need to calm down, nobody likes keyboard drool.

Furthermore, I find it immensely funny that you think I am a CoD boi because I fancy the AR. It is broad assumptions like this, that get people in trouble in real life, and make people look like idiots on the internet.

Secondly, I immensely enjoy the TTK ratio in Dust. Why would I want to lower that to Cod level? I believe the tracking shooter genre is a dying breed in the FPS world, and I am grateful that games like Dust try capture the tracking feel.

Who ever said this was my game? Honestly, why would not want anybody with lengthy experience to balance the weapon.

Lastly, I am 100% I know who the good players are, and the trash...

CCP has already stated that the current version is temporary. Supposedly it will be reworked when the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle come in.

I believe it should be reworked NOT nerfed.

-Reduce the effective range to 35 meters(not when they register but how much damage is done at long ranges) after which the damage would abruptly drop to 50% and eventually drop to 25% after reaching 60 meters.
-Increase damage at 0 to 15 meter range.
-Increase rate of fire
-Increase recoil(due to increased recoil, not due to recoil increase per shot)
-Include over heat if more than 40 bolts are fired continuously*--READ NOTE--

The AR should be a glorified SMG with more damage, less rpm, less ammo, better range and slightly better recoil.

Just my thoughts.


Note*:
Instead of over heat, how about increased muzzle flash after 30 shots? Not brighter, just bigger. That way, it is harder to spam shots from a long distance.

It's a blaster weapon. Blaster weapons in the EVE world have VERY VERY VERY short ranges.

Gert YOUR sci-fi facts straight before you laugh about the missing todays-knowledge of military technology when the game plays in a completely different universe. Not the word AR is the more imprtant one, but the fact that it is a blaster weapon.

My bad. Just figured being an assualt rifle and in the future it would be pretty good compared to simple earth weapons.

Crazy right?

I know it's semantical, but; the AK platform is more than accurate at 400 meters plus. The misconception comes from testing of used, dirty and maltreated AK-47's/AKM's from the jungles of Vietnam.

But I digress.

The AR in game needs to be CQC, because that is what it is suppose to be.

Hit detection can be rather poor, yes. That is probably part of the problem.

But as for the HMG... sticking to cover when moving about, ADS when applicable, choosing my engagements carefully, strafing against other HMG heavies in 1v1 senarios, and only bringing out the HMG on maps that have decent CQC... is using the HMG like an AR?

Please, do tell the proper usage of the HMG. Because my best way of playing to its supposed strengths is apparently not correct. My way seemed to function fine throughout Chromosome, and still works nice on two maps (that I seldom get to play because matchmaking hates me), provided hit detection is kind to me.

Still, to me, the AR feels too effective in CQC compared to dedicated CQC weapons. It is able to outgun other CQC weapons more regularly than what I feel it should. Whether the fix (if one is even needed) is to simply improve hit detection, or to adjust the AR, is up for debate.

CCP has already stated that the current version is temporary. Supposedly it will be reworked when the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle come in.

I believe it should be reworked NOT nerfed.

-Reduce the effective range to 35 meters(not when they register but how much damage is done at long ranges) after which the damage would abruptly drop to 50% and eventually drop to 25% after reaching 60 meters.
-Increase damage at 0 to 15 meter range.
-Increase rate of fire
-Increase recoil(due to increased recoil, not due to recoil increase per shot)
-Include over heat if more than 40 bolts are fired continuously*--READ NOTE--

The AR should be a glorified SMG with more damage, less rpm, less ammo, better range and slightly better recoil.

Just my thoughts.


Note*:
Instead of over heat, how about increased muzzle flash after 20 shots? Not brighter, just bigger. That way, it is harder to spam shots from a long distance.

plasma makes a weapon less accurate?
I can tell you are super gutsy. Ide never challenge you.

WHOA your buffing proto's or nerfing AR???? we need AR to kill heavies and armor tankers!!!

To some it all up, the AR would be better in CQC situations and less effective at range.

Why would we have the HMG then?

Thats ment to be beast at CQC, getting out gunned in the HMG ideal situation by an AR makes it meh

i only agree with this since its a gallente AR meaning it would have the shortest range of all the ARs, minmatar ARs should have the range of current ARs and amarr ARs should have range of TAC/Laser while the caldari shoot as far as its scope can see while losing effectiveness in close range

Nope thats what militia gear is supposed to be for.

Here we go again with another one of these threads that's started and supported by people that suck at using ARs.

The ONLY alteration that is acceptable to the AR imo,is a reduced amount of ammo in the clip.

Max ammo should only be 45 rounds,50 for the Krin's,and 55 for the GAR-21.

Having less ammo would force people to play with more strategy,stick in bigger groups,and it makes logis more viable.

Seems like anti AR nuts just want a complete nerf so they can feel like they have a better chance of winning.

We are talking about range not accuracy and yes plasma does have less range than a human AR

-- snip a bunch of really bad ideas expressed with QQ --

First the thought that CCP will listen is just so cute it makes me smile.

Second, learn how to play the game. Because the AR is the default weapon in virtually every FPS. And DUST has already gutted the AR from its previous high by quite a drastic amount. If you didn't play in the Beta then you don't know that all ARs had decent scopes and many got Iron Sights as a replacement. That alone dropped the long distance kills by a large percentage.

'AR Nerf' is the sound of whiners and it is music to our ears. You suggestion is a Major Nerf and just because your lying fingers claim it isn't a 35m limit will put them just above the HMG for range. Leaving what as an option? Anything but an AR obviously because you are getting stomped by them.

HTFU or GTFO.

I doubt my view of "effective range" is the same as yours.

Judging from the 50m and 75m indicators on the mini map, I know that the AR remains extremely potent at these ranges.

Perhaps you mean the point at which it starts losing damage? That's not what I mean.

First the thought that CCP will listen is just so cute it makes me smile.

Second, learn how to play the game. Because the AR is the default weapon in virtually every FPS. And DUST has already gutted the AR from its previous high by quite a drastic amount. If you didn't play in the Beta then you don't know that all ARs had decent scopes and many got Iron Sights as a replacement. That alone dropped the long distance kills by a large percentage.

'AR Nerf' is the sound of whiners and it is music to our ears. You suggestion is a Major Nerf and just because your lying fingers claim it isn't a 35m limit will put them just above the HMG for range. Leaving what as an option? Anything but an AR obviously because you are getting stomped by them.

HTFU or GTFO.

Just for the record: is pretty much defined as unfightable. Mass driver and flaylock pistol were unfightable. Old lavs were unfightable. Drop ships without swarm luanchers are unfightable.

I dont care who you are. If you have an assualt rifle in its current state and you face some one else who has the same or an smg. You always have a fighting chance.

Op is rediculous. The ar is far from rediculous. Core locust grenades are loldiculous.

Both the Mass Driver and Flaylock use to be as good as the AR. Then people complained...

Ar does not 1 hit kill.

Ar does not 1 hit kill.

Are you serious a real AR 15 has over 500 yards in hitting a point target. I use to qualify at 500 yards in the Marine Corp and could hit 10 out of 10 rounds into a mans heart. The distance you suggest is near a SMG not a rifle. If they do decide to alter the AR they need to refund all SP to everyone that wishes to opt out.

first off the assault rifle is by nature a medium range weapon. so I can't say I agree with your Idea. adjustment is needed but not like this.

rebalance:

gallente: lower the rof w/ minor damage buff
caldari: semi auto medium long range
minmatar: high ROF medium short range
amarr: fine the way it is

I have lvl 3 in all light weapons (except ARs, Swarms, Sniper Rifle, and MDs) that way i'll always have diversity in this game, and support this idea.