DUST Search - AR needs to be reworked

Doc Noah wrote:

Vicious Minotaur wrote:

If the AR becomes even more adept at CQC than it already is... then that spells trouble for all the other CQC weaponry that the AR already steps on the toes of.

As it stands, I've been outgunned by an AR using the HMG in its optimal range... I've been outgunned by an AR while using a shotgun in its optimal range... I've also been outgunned by an AR while using the SMG in its optimal range... Yeah, and that is not rare in the least.

If the AR is to be more CQC as per typical gallentean racial characteristics, then a bunch of weapons will be need of some more balancing as well.

I dont think we're playing the same game. I can take out multiple people with a shotgun in a very short timespan. You'd be lucky just finishing off the second guy with the AR. I can twoshot a heavy or heavily fitted proto suits whereas my AR just barely has enough ammo to take one down in one mag.

The only times I lost to AR in CQC is either
a) I'm outside effective range (which is pretty short, I'll admit that)
b)hitreg f's me over
c) I miss

Under no circumstance would AR be able to output more DPS than a shotgun considering a shotgun can one shot newberries while ARs cant.

Same can be said about HMG, as long as they're in effective range, HMG chews through armor and shield like butter. If accuracy is an issue, then try crouching and zooming (assuming you're in range to still do decent damage). Bonus points if you play smart like hiding around corners or setting up shop ahead of time.

As for your comment about SMGs, the people who run around with SMG as a primary beg to differ. I would rank SMG in the same category as shotguns as a CQC primary given the damage, RoF, and magazine size it has.


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Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 247	Posted - 2013.10.13 05:17:00 - [1] - Quote If the AR becomes even more adept at CQC than it already is... then that spells trouble for all the other CQC weaponry that the AR already steps on the toes of. As it stands, I've been outgunned by an AR using the HMG in its optimal range... I've been outgunned by an AR while using a shotgun in its optimal range... I've also been outgunned by an AR while using the SMG in its optimal range... Yeah, and that is not rare in the least. If the AR is to be more CQC as per typical gallentean racial characteristics, then a bunch of weapons will be need of some more balancing as well.
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 248	Posted - 2013.10.13 06:07:00 - [2] - Quote Doc Noah wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: If the AR becomes even more adept at CQC than it already is... then that spells trouble for all the other CQC weaponry that the AR already steps on the toes of. As it stands, I've been outgunned by an AR using the HMG in its optimal range... I've been outgunned by an AR while using a shotgun in its optimal range... I've also been outgunned by an AR while using the SMG in its optimal range... Yeah, and that is not rare in the least. If the AR is to be more CQC as per typical gallentean racial characteristics, then a bunch of weapons will be need of some more balancing as well. I dont think we're playing the same game. I can take out multiple people with a shotgun in a very short timespan. You'd be lucky just finishing off the second guy with the AR. I can twoshot a heavy or heavily fitted proto suits whereas my AR just barely has enough ammo to take one down in one mag. The only times I lost to AR in CQC is either a) I'm outside effective range (which is pretty short, I'll admit that) b)hitreg f's me over c) I miss Under no circumstance would AR be able to output more DPS than a shotgun considering a shotgun can one shot newberries while ARs cant. Same can be said about HMG, as long as they're in effective range, HMG chews through armor and shield like butter. If accuracy is an issue, then try crouching and zooming (assuming you're in range to still do decent damage). Bonus points if you play smart like hiding around corners or setting up shop ahead of time. As for your comment about SMGs, the people who run around with SMG as a primary beg to differ. I would rank SMG in the same category as shotguns as a CQC primary given the damage, RoF, and magazine size it has. Considering virtually every single match I am in, I am on the receiving end of a pubstomp... And the thing is, I have SMG proficiency 1 (and plan for it to go higher). Guess what? I often run with it as a primary. I can do well with it, by my standards ( 19:10, 2400 WP as a logi with an SMG). I still end up outgunned. Even when I use my tankier suits. Same thing with the HMG. I have Proficiency 3, and have literally been firing at an enemy well within my optimal range, and they took the equivalent of NO DAMAGE. As for crouching: Lets become an even more stationary target! Every time I come across a crouching HMG heavy, regardless of what suit I am in, they are as good as toast. Because they can't move very well. Crouching is only good if you are not in optimal range. But even then, you are probably within optimal range of another weapon. As for the shotgun, I have come around the corner, surprised some one, and connected two shots, and I died to point blank AR fire. Sure, as long as I sneak up on an enemy, they are dead. But if they see me, all they have to do is back up and fire (even when I use my medium frame suits). And guess what? I've done this to many a shotgunner. The shotgun is not a CQC beast, even though it probably should be, given it's supreme lack of range. If you have not been outgunned by an AR as much as I have, then you are lucky. Alas, I am not, and as such, I frequently get out gunned by an AR even when I have the upper-hand with my non-AR.
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 249	Posted - 2013.10.13 06:43:00 - [3] - Quote [quote=DeadlyAztec11] Hit detection can be rather poor, yes. That is probably part of the problem. But as for the HMG... sticking to cover when moving about, ADS when applicable, choosing my engagements carefully, strafing against other HMG heavies in 1v1 senarios, and only bringing out the HMG on maps that have decent CQC... is using the HMG like an AR? Please, do tell the proper usage of the HMG. Because my best way of playing to its supposed strengths is apparently not correct. My way seemed to function fine throughout Chromosome, and still works nice on two maps (that I seldom get to play because matchmaking hates me), provided hit detection is kind to me. Still, to me, the AR feels too effective in CQC. It is able to outgun other CQC weapons more regularly than what I feel it should. Whether the fix is to simply improve hit detection, or to adjust the AR, is up for debate.
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 249	Posted - 2013.10.13 06:44:00 - [4] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Hmm... Most peculiar. Most likely has to do with hit detection. I just had a game today where I melted two heavies in quick succession. I ran into a building and saw two heavies. Knowing I was out gunned, I ran back and crouched behind some boxes. I aimed down the sight and shot for their heads. Poor fools didn't even last 5 seconds. Oh they shot back, but their dispersion was horrible; they strafed side to side trying to avoid my bullets. Oddly enough, they hurt themselves more by moving so much. The HMG class is difficult. It only works if you can set yourself up in a good stationary position. CCP always said the Sentinel was primarily for point defense, I think they went a little to far. Regardless, you need to stop using the HMG like a big AR. That type of play style completely contradicts the HMG's strengths. Hit detection can be rather poor, yes. That is probably part of the problem. But as for the HMG... sticking to cover when moving about, ADS when applicable, choosing my engagements carefully, strafing against other HMG heavies in 1v1 senarios, and only bringing out the HMG on maps that have decent CQC... is using the HMG like an AR? Please, do tell the proper usage of the HMG. Because my best way of playing to its supposed strengths is apparently not correct. My way seemed to function fine throughout Chromosome, and still works nice on two maps (that I seldom get to play because matchmaking hates me), provided hit detection is kind to me. Still, to me, the AR feels too effective in CQC. It is able to outgun other CQC weapons more regularly than what I feel it should. Whether the fix is to simply improve hit detection, or to adjust the AR, is up for debate.