the point is, no matter what, tanks are always going to be a big part in warfare. just becouse they have a tank doenst mean you cant. you can always go rail and make sure that tanker stays out of action the entire match. if i go against a tanker with really good ground support, i go rail and he blows up in about 4 shots. you need timing is all. so no matter if your team sucks, a tank can always counter a tank.

yet, not a single AV guy on here posted a good reason why they should be able to solo a tank. they just repeat over and over "i should solo a tank". and when i demand evidence from them, it takes them a hour to bring me a military link that clearly states tanks dominated AV. can anyone give me a reason? im still trying to understand. and dont say tanks are limited to only one person. you can use them too.

That has nothing to do with the point I made!

10men = 10men
10men > 10 tanks
10men < 9men + 1tank

this is how tanks should work, it doesn't happen like this yet, it needs to!

yet, not a single AV guy on here posted a good reason why they should be able to solo a tank. they just repeat over and over "i should solo a tank". and when i demand evidence from them, it takes them a hour to bring me a military link that clearly states tanks dominated AV. can anyone give me a reason? im still trying to understand. and dont say tanks are limited to only one person. you can use them too.

ok since you seem to want to be able to 1v1 a 2 mill tank, how about we make av 2 mill? different form of balance and you can still 1v1 tanks, yet you get as broke as us in the process. in the war against iraq, we sent in around 250 tanks, about 230 came back fine. so dont even get started about real life becouse if we made it like real life, then tanks would just dominate. cod isnt like real life my friend, you severely underestimate tanks.

so explain to me why you think its possible to solo tanks irl?

CCP needs to not Buff or Nerf anything and some how make a game mode that forces Tanks and Infantry to work together. I have no idea what this mode would be. Maybe a capture the flag esq type game where a team has to hack a yellow tank then return it safely to their red line or something.

The gunner issue aside (feels to me that the gunner issue was the original issue, but after reading the forums over the past few days there is definitely a bunch of separate issues) the flaw in almost everybodys reasoning, from tankers to infantry, is that while people acknowledge team work is something required for infantry working with infantry, almost no one wants to acknowledge team work is a necessity between infantry and tanks.

AVers should pretty much be able to dominate a lone tank that doesn't have infantry support. Maybe, and I say MAYBE 2 AVers should be required to take down a decent, lone tank. I'll say that a rough ballpark of 1-3 AVers should always defeat a lone tank, no problem (due more in part to tactics, less in part to damage). And there is one thing Tankers are forgetting/won't acknowledge. That AV dude trying to take you out? His choice of AV nades puts him/her at a massive disadvantage to me, an Assault with real nades. I don't need or want to be in your tank, but if Tankers would let me, I could protect them from AV. But they don't let me/want me to.

I have seen and met a lot of REAL LIFE Military/Ex Military people here in Dust. I would like to see someone who has had REAL LIFE experience with Tanks and Tank tactics/strategy get on here and talk some sense into Dust Tankers. They would tell you that if you try and do anything with out infantry support, you are a moron and deserve the death that is coming your way. Of course, no one on here would listen to said person, so I guess that's a moot point.

In real life the 4 supposed best Main Battle Tanks (M1 Abrams, Leopard 2, Challenger 2, and AMX-56 Leclerc) cost easily into the millions of dollars to build (I wanna say the M1 Abrams is around like 54 million per tank, but i'm pulling that from memory and could be incorrect) and take massive amounts of training to make the CREW proficient.

The RPG has been the same forever, takes almost no training to use proficiently, and is basically just a tube and an exploding shell with an impact fuse. Just a guess but I would say construction of 1 RPG tube and 1 round is well under 1000 dollars, probably closer to 100 dollars.

I understand we are playing a futuristic videogame with made up weapons and technology, but if we aren't going to follow reality in any way shape or form, then everybody (tankers included) better put on their big boy pants and get ready for MAVs, Fighters, Heavy Aircraft, and those Mechs that have been rumored to be a possibility way down the road. Because if a Tank should be able to solo with no support, then so should everything else. And if they aren't, then everyone needs to get ready for Tanker QQing multiplied by 4.

EDIT: I'm not against Tank buffs. I'm against Tank buffs when considering the Tank a lone unit that doesn't work with support. I would not be against a buff that takes into consideration the fact a Tank needs to work with support forces.

If that's the case 1 proximity Mine should be able to blow up or completely immobilize a tank, "Plasma Cannons" should be 1-shotting tanks. IRL tanks don't roll in the Dust's type of maps without support, you'd get eaten alive by AV.

ok sure its been said before

TANKS role is infantry support or leading an assault. both require infantry support.

the defence of the tank comes in 3 ways - first armour/shields/rep - second suppression/firepower needless to say a fully manned tank has a far better chance of getting out of sticky situations with all the extra firepower and supressing fire it can provide.-thirdly the speed of the tank potentially allows it to get out of trouble providing it does not over commit itself.

TANKS cost a lot of isk, but they should NOT be invulnerable to all but mass AV attack. IF a tank goes where it should not i.e in built up area's it should be very vulnerable. If your getting hit by AV grenades, your too close don't complain if you die to one AV player you over committed and should not have got yourself in that situation.

Really I don't think a tank should go into a urban area unless it has a large amount of infantry support. currently this happens an awful lot and 9/10 times they get away with it when IMO it should be 50/50

Currently tanks have plenty of defence IMO, tankers need to ask themselves are they tanking right? is the tank full? do I have infantry support? are the gunners making the primary target the AV players either through suppression or killing?

If I had to make any changes to tanks/AV it would be with the AV weapons. make them more affective at close range and less affective at long range

I am sure many tankers will not agree but this is not world of tanks. bringing out the big guns should be a co-ordinated effort to make it work when used properly, in the same respect a well supported tank used correctly should be a challenge to take down.

any solo tanker asking for buffs I have no sympathy for, tanks are not god mode where every match you should get 30+ - 0. there are a fair few good tankers out there, but how many can say they use the tank in the correct role?

my 2 cents

i just hate that they can solo tanks with three men. all they need are lai dai grenades and swarms and the brains to hit us from behind. pro swarms do about 2k dam with comp dam mods and prof being 65% bonus. thats about 3k. if you hit it from behind thats an automatic 100% addition. so 6k from a single swarm from behind isnt enough? packed lai dais do 2k plus 100%. thats 4k from a grenade.... 3 of those is 12k dam plus 3 swarms is 18k dam. 30k dam from all grenades and a clip of swarms...

a AVer that sneaks up behind you is devestating becouse of this and tanks have only about 6700 armour. thats not enough? if you attack fast enough before he notices you he wont have time to activate anything so in short, hes screwed from 1 swarm and a grenade. reppers take 3 seconds after activation to help at all so that well enough to chuck 2 extra grenades. not OP enough?

How are they getting behind you? Are you staying close to your infantry support? Are they running a scanner? Do you have a friendly LLAV remote ripping you? Or are you riding around by yourself trying to play god-mode solo-tanker and failing?

i ride with 2 gunners in my tank. i NEVER run solo but its hard to find a logi jeep or logi dropship. usually the gunners hop out and rep me, following me till im out of battle while hit by AV. it works well until a AV guy drops from a tower behind you and rips hell on me from suprise. usually i can call out AV for them to kill unless they are on a tower or sneak up on me like i said before.

damn auto correct....

CCP needs to not Buff or Nerf anything and some how make a game mode that forces Tanks and Infantry to work together. I have no idea what this mode would be. Maybe a capture the flag esq type game where a team has to hack a yellow tank then return it safely to their red line or something.

so i did the math and pro swarms alone do 7840 from the back with 5 comp mods in a pro cal logi suit. 1 volly. is this reasonable?

it should yet it doesnt. i was placing a counter to all those who think they should solo a tank, yet are saddly somehow unable given the current circumstances. and if one man can control a tank with a controller, why cant one do that in the army? oh wait, they do....

if there is one thing i hate more than cod its a unconstructive post and ive yet to see one like the one im about to reveal. the wars between avers and tankers needs to stop. avers want tankers easy to blow up and not worth speccing into. this means for you avers, if you get a buff and tanks get a nerf, you wont have anything to kill with them proto swarm or lai dai grenade. tankers, if we didnt have demented avers suiciding in our red line trying to kill us and keep us under locks, than infantry would be scarce and we wouldnt have anything to kill. if either gets nerfed to the ground it means we are screwed. nobody seems to see this but me.


as for my opinion of balance, wp should be given for every thousand damage you do to tanks but not devastate tanks and blow them to bits. its not right that a guy running solo grenades that cost 10k and a swarm at 50k can blow up a 2 mill tank so you really need to consider balancing av too. we already lose plenty when we face other tankers. i really hope ccp takes this into account with 1.6 pretty soon(tm), but we need proto tanks back if we are going against this becouse this is just sad. ccp you shoulda nerfed the blaster turret instead of the tank if it was that big a deal. if you get 1.6 wrong ccp, i fear most for you. you already lost most of your good tankers. now everyone has av and tanking is a dying art.

others feel free to leave comments and thoughts about this but please, dont act like a 8 year old and argue. this game needs balance, not brainless chimps throwing **** at eachother. and im a aver too so dont even try to critisize me.

that's not what we want at all. we want the tank player to understand the ground game first, then skill into the tank. i don't care if you're in a hurry, tankers make some strange decisions in battle.

Infantry just cannot accept that the best counter to a tank should be another tank. No, it has to be infantry weapons, that are each all more powerful than a turret. That's like saying a 40mm 203 round is more powerful than the main gun of an Abrams.

Exactly tankers should not rule the field. Unfortunately this appears to be what SOME tankers want.



You are aware you have just asked for tanks to become the very definition of an OverPowered weapon.

An overpowered weapon is where 1 weapon is so much more effective than any other weapon that the only way to combat it in 1v1 fights is to weild it.

We find it hard to take tankers seriously, when there are those coming up with this!

so 7000 damage isnt enough? nor warpoints for damage? what the hell do you want? to be able to 1 shot the damn mcc??? it really is hard to take AV seriously when they can already 1 shot a tank if they sneak behind them, and ask for buffs..... just really? and i expect a 2 mill piece of equipment to be strong. just like a duvole AR is better than a militia AR.

Im not asking for buffs!
The current av is strong enough!

But if 1 man can drive a tank, 1 av unit should blow up a tank, like it is now!
Thats all! We don't need av buffing we just want to make sure tanks don't get buffed to Spkr ridiculous levels.

when you 1 shot a 2 mill tank. you think thats not OP?