if there is one thing i hate more than cod its a unconstructive post and ive yet to see one like the one im about to reveal. the wars between avers and tankers needs to stop. avers want tankers easy to blow up and not worth speccing into. this means for you avers, if you get a buff and tanks get a nerf, you wont have anything to kill with them proto swarm or lai dai grenade. tankers, if we didnt have demented avers suiciding in our red line trying to kill us and keep us under locks, than infantry would be scarce and we wouldnt have anything to kill. if either gets nerfed to the ground it means we are screwed. nobody seems to see this but me. as for my opinion of balance, wp should be given for every thousand damage you do to tanks but not devastate tanks and blow them to bits. its not right that a guy running solo grenades that cost 10k and a swarm at 50k can blow up a 2 mill tank so you really need to consider balancing av too. we already lose plenty when we face other tankers. i really hope ccp takes this into account with 1.6 pretty soon(tm), but we need proto tanks back if we are going against this becouse this is just sad. ccp you shoulda nerfed the blaster turret instead of the tank if it was that big a deal. if you get 1.6 wrong ccp, i fear most for you. you already lost most of your good tankers. now everyone has av and tanking is a dying art. others feel free to leave comments and thoughts about this but please, dont act like a 8 year old and argue. this game needs balance, not brainless chimps throwing **** at eachother. and im a aver too so dont even try to critisize me.

Shoot, I was looking for the post to end the war... and all I got was a wall of text.

if there is one thing i hate more than cod its a unconstructive post and ive yet to see one like the one im about to reveal. the wars between avers and tankers needs to stop. avers want tankers easy to blow up and not worth speccing into. this means for you avers, if you get a buff and tanks get a nerf, you wont have anything to kill with them proto swarm or lai dai grenade. tankers, if we didnt have demented avers suiciding in our red line trying to kill us and keep us under locks, than infantry would be scarce and we wouldnt have anything to kill. if either gets nerfed to the ground it means we are screwed. nobody seems to see this but me. as for my opinion of balance, wp should be given for every thousand damage you do to tanks but not devastate tanks and blow them to bits. its not right that a guy running solo grenades that cost 10k and a swarm at 50k can blow up a 2 mill tank so you really need to consider balancing av too. we already lose plenty when we face other tankers. i really hope ccp takes this into account with 1.6 pretty soon(tm), but we need proto tanks back if we are going against this becouse this is just sad. ccp you shoulda nerfed the blaster turret instead of the tank if it was that big a deal. if you get 1.6 wrong ccp, i fear most for you. you already lost most of your good tankers. now everyone has av and tanking is a dying art. others feel free to leave comments and thoughts about this but please, dont act like a 8 year old and argue. this game needs balance, not brainless chimps throwing **** at eachother. and im a aver too so dont even try to critisize me.

do you know the definition of enlighten? besides, only ccp could fix this mess....

If there is one thing I hate more than COD, its an unconstructive post, and I've yet to see one like the one I'm about to reveal. The wars between AV'ers and tankers needs to stop. AV'ers want tankers easy to blow up and not worth speccing into. This means for you AV'ers, if you get a buff and tanks get a nerf, you wont have anything to kill with them proto swarm or lai dai grenade. Tankers, if we didn't have demented AV'ers suiciding in our red line trying to kill us and keep us under locks, than infantry would be scarce and we wouldn't have anything to kill. If either gets nerfed to the ground it means we are screwed. Nobody seems to see this but me.


As for my opinion of balance, WP should be given for every thousand damage you do to tanks but not devastate tanks and blow them to bits. It's not right that a guy running solo grenades that cost 10k and a swarm at 50k can blow up a 2 mill tank so you really need to consider balancing AV too. We already lose plenty when we face other tankers. I really hope CCP takes this into account with 1.6 pretty Soon(tm), but we need proto tanks back if we are going against this because this is just sad. CCP you shoulda nerfed the blaster turret instead of the tank if it was that big a deal. if you get 1.6 wrong CCP, I fear most for you. You already lost most of your good tankers. Now everyone has AV and tanking is a dying art.

Others feel free to leave comments and thoughts about this but please, don't act like a 8 year old and argue. This game needs balance, not brainless chimps throwing **** at each other, and I'm an AV'er too so don't even try to critisize me.

shattered you know me well enough to know this. and i fixed it. and thats a good one crash, i just was in a rush is all

AVers should pretty much be able to dominate a lone tank that doesn't have infantry support. Maybe, and I say MAYBE 2 AVers should be required to take down a decent, lone tank. I'll say that a rough ballpark of 1-3 AVers should always defeat a lone tank, no problem (due more in part to tactics, less in part to damage). And there is one thing Tankers are forgetting/won't acknowledge. That AV dude trying to take you out? His choice of AV nades puts him/her at a massive disadvantage to me, an Assault with real nades. I don't need or want to be in your tank, but if Tankers would let me, I could protect them from AV. But they don't let me/want me to.

The RPG has been the same forever, takes almost no training to use proficiently, and is basically just a tube and an exploding shell with an impact fuse. Just a guess but I would say construction of 1 RPG tube and 1 round is well under 1000 dollars, probably closer to 100 dollars.

I understand we are playing a futuristic videogame with made up weapons and technology, but if we aren't going to follow reality in any way shape or form, then everybody (tankers included) better put on their big boy pants and get ready for MAVs, Fighters, Heavy Aircraft, and those Mechs that have been rumored to be a possibility way down the road. Because if a Tank should be able to solo with no support, then so should everything else. And if they aren't, then everyone needs to get ready for Tanker QQing multiplied by 4.

If I have a decent amount of SP into AV nades and I engage a tank in a city setting where I have boxes and stuff to hide behind and or enough cover to sneak up behind a tank, then yea, I should be able to solo a tank. The tank had no business being alone in that setting, and doesn't need a buff because of the results.

Tankers can solo all they want in Pubs, and they don't dominate. Yet most Tanker QQing seems to be in relation to Pubs, so I am naturally confused.

ok since you seem to want to be able to 1v1 a 2 mill tank, how about we make av 2 mill? different form of balance and you can still 1v1 tanks, yet you get as broke as us in the process. in the war against iraq, we sent in around 250 tanks, about 230 came back fine. so dont even get started about real life becouse if we made it like real life, then tanks would just dominate. cod isnt like real life my friend, you severely underestimate tanks.

so explain to me why you think its possible to solo tanks irl?

Oh hey, look at this interesting little tid bit-

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2005-03-29-abrams-tank-a_x.htm

You're talking about the Battle of 73 Easting Chase. Which was in 1991.

ok since you seem to want to be able to 1v1 a 2 mill tank, how about we make av 2 mill? different form of balance and you can still 1v1 tanks, yet you get as broke as us in the process. in the war against iraq, we sent in around 250 tanks, about 230 came back fine. so dont even get started about real life becouse if we made it like real life, then tanks would just dominate. cod isnt like real life my friend, you severely underestimate tanks.

so explain to me why you think its possible to solo tanks irl?

quick edit: about 80 tanks were so badly damaged that they had to be shipped back. youve done my work for me. thank you ignorent aver

CCP needs to not Buff or Nerf anything and some how make a game mode that forces Tanks and Infantry to work together. I have no idea what this mode would be. Maybe a capture the flag esq type game where a team has to hack a yellow tank then return it safely to their red line or something.

The gunner issue aside (feels to me that the gunner issue was the original issue, but after reading the forums over the past few days there is definitely a bunch of separate issues) the flaw in almost everybodys reasoning, from tankers to infantry, is that while people acknowledge team work is something required for infantry working with infantry, almost no one wants to acknowledge team work is a necessity between infantry and tanks.

AVers should pretty much be able to dominate a lone tank that doesn't have infantry support. Maybe, and I say MAYBE 2 AVers should be required to take down a decent, lone tank. I'll say that a rough ballpark of 1-3 AVers should always defeat a lone tank, no problem (due more in part to tactics, less in part to damage). And there is one thing Tankers are forgetting/won't acknowledge. That AV dude trying to take you out? His choice of AV nades puts him/her at a massive disadvantage to me, an Assault with real nades. I don't need or want to be in your tank, but if Tankers would let me, I could protect them from AV. But they don't let me/want me to.

I have seen and met a lot of REAL LIFE Military/Ex Military people here in Dust. I would like to see someone who has had REAL LIFE experience with Tanks and Tank tactics/strategy get on here and talk some sense into Dust Tankers. They would tell you that if you try and do anything with out infantry support, you are a moron and deserve the death that is coming your way. Of course, no one on here would listen to said person, so I guess that's a moot point.

In real life the 4 supposed best Main Battle Tanks (M1 Abrams, Leopard 2, Challenger 2, and AMX-56 Leclerc) cost easily into the millions of dollars to build (I wanna say the M1 Abrams is around like 54 million per tank, but i'm pulling that from memory and could be incorrect) and take massive amounts of training to make the CREW proficient.

The RPG has been the same forever, takes almost no training to use proficiently, and is basically just a tube and an exploding shell with an impact fuse. Just a guess but I would say construction of 1 RPG tube and 1 round is well under 1000 dollars, probably closer to 100 dollars.

I understand we are playing a futuristic videogame with made up weapons and technology, but if we aren't going to follow reality in any way shape or form, then everybody (tankers included) better put on their big boy pants and get ready for MAVs, Fighters, Heavy Aircraft, and those Mechs that have been rumored to be a possibility way down the road. Because if a Tank should be able to solo with no support, then so should everything else. And if they aren't, then everyone needs to get ready for Tanker QQing multiplied by 4.

EDIT: I'm not against Tank buffs. I'm against Tank buffs when considering the Tank a lone unit that doesn't work with support. I would not be against a buff that takes into consideration the fact a Tank needs to work with support forces.

Congratulations, you found a paragraph that you could pull out of context and try and use for your argument. I guess that means you win right?

What about this paragraph-

In the all-out battles of the 1991 Gulf War, only 18 Abrams tanks were lost and no soldiers in them killed. But since the March 2003 invasion of Iraq, with tanks in daily combat against the unexpectedly fierce insurgency, the Army says 80 of the 69-ton behemoths have been damaged so badly they had to be shipped back to the United States.

Did you miss that one? Or are you going to say they were just damaged and shipped home, not destroyed, so that some how validates your argument?

What about this paragraph-

Because it was designed to fight other tanks, the Abrams' heavy armor is up front. In Iraq's cities, however, insurgents sneak up from behind, fire from rooftops above and set off mines below.

Holy **** that sounds like Dust!!!

Tanks in this game get defense modules, are corralled into a tiny little bowl of land and played by players who would like to have some fun. Calling down a tank and having to roll around more methodically isn't tha same as just popping another respawn and running into bullets again and again.

Tanks should not die outright to one guy when they've timed their modules to activate and have specced up into a better tank and mods. One AV guy should be able to run them off so as to make them not be as big of a threat to infantry. That is all that is needed for balance. The better specced that one guy's AV skill is, the quicker that tank needs to book it out.

If you wnt to kill a tank you should either have to organize, chase the tank down or be smart and wait where the tank will patrol out while mods are on cooldown and vulnerable.

I know and those pesky insurgents have bad hit boxes just like Dust!

What about those soldiers that get shot but if they wait a few moments they feel better?

Nub......

true but based on real facts from the military, tanks clearly dominate avers. your lucky i gave you so much slack in my first post. instead you got aggressive so i bring facts to case. so, any more points i must clarify? you forget out of 1100 tanks 80 were destroyed. go figure.

I agree with you 100%, especially the last part. But it has to go both ways. I simply cannot accept any Tank arguments when Tanks flat out refuse to work with anyone else. A Tank with 2-4 (good) infantry supporting it on foot should be nearly unstoppable. A lone tank should be at the mercy of whatever AV is focused on it (to an extent of course).

Based on real facts from the military. That sounds official. You mind sharing the source of these real facts? I never got aggressive, and you don't need to cut me any slack. And yeah, you need to clarify all your points because the one you made in your last sentence says that 80 of the most advanced tanks on planet earth were taken out by RPGs and roadside bombs. Soooo......

cod isnt like real life my friend, you severely underestimate tanks.

quick edit: about 80 tanks were so badly damaged that they had to be shipped back. youve done my work for me. thank you ignorent aver