don't care about K/D, I cant buy my fittings with K/D... iv tried... they only thing that is acceptable as income in the game is ISK so give me more of that.

Fair enough, but 5 proto assault deaths is equivalent to 1 decent tank death, in terms of isk, but tankers such as yourself surely do not lose much per match for your 30-40 kills.

Fair enough, but 5 proto assault deaths is equivalent to 1 decent tank death, in terms of isk, but tankers such as yourself surely do not lose much per match for your 30-40 kills.

the way we play is that when tanks aren't needed, we go as infantry until we can afford to get more tanks..

I don't lose much, maybe one every 5-10 rounds..

Your assumption is flawed in so many ways ...
- proto assaults can use miltia gear and still greatly benefit from their SP, tankers can't
- one cheap tank costs the ISK of 3 matches (skirmish), one expensive tank around 6 matches (skirmish), don't talk about enforcer where the hull alone is 6 matches ...
- people tend to go berserk against tanks, yesterday EoN scrubs wasted orbitals to kill me and other scrubs suicided into our redline to get me - won't happen vs dropsuits

the way we play is that when tanks aren't needed, we go as infantry until we can afford to get more tanks..

I don't lose much, maybe one every 5-10 rounds..

Oh man the AR maffia are at it again?

If It's not the MD users ( or any other gun ) , it's the logies doing there job getting WP, now it's the tankers and the KDR? !

What's next? maybe we need to nerf the dropships sence they can put ppl where the AR maffia can t go them self!


Let's just remove everything but the caldari ASSULT and the AR from the game.

Hail ZERG

don't care about K/D, I cant buy my fittings with K/D... iv tried... they only thing that is acceptable as income in the game is ISK so give me more of that.

Would it make tankers happy if there'd be a paper thin but cheap tank which doesn't cost more than a dropsuit but isn't any more effective either?

The difficulty seems to be that it's very hard to balance tank survivability on skill, since they make such juicy giant targets.

Chill man, i'm not saying nerf anything just the high expense of tanks is directly related to the high KDR that it entails...

To increase cost for Tanks is a nerf if anything so you are must certainly barking up the nerf three bro.

I'm not saying increase cost, they are already very expensive. I am trying to say ( which i thought was quite clear ) is the high cost of tanks is in direct relation to the high KDR that tankers achieve.

I understand that you'r one of the better tankers void, but within those 5-10 matches where you lose only 1 tank you rack up a huge amount of kills without loss. What I'm trying to say in response to the many 'turrets and hulls cost to much threads' ,is mabe you guys are paying for that KDR.

so while alot of mercs go negative isk or break even you are in fact in your 5-10 matches probably making isk or at the very least getting great KDR. and you say tanks need buffs

Would it make tankers happy if there'd be a paper thin but cheap tank which doesn't cost more than a dropsuit but isn't any more effective either?

Look at the leader boards and its not hav pilots with all the insain kdrs it snipers and proto stomping assaults yes tankers get lotsof kills when were tanking but to fund our efforts we run free ssuits and die allot thusly decreasing our kdr . Most serious tankers dont care about our kdr record wr acctually just want to have fun .

Same for tankers man, anyone can run in militia gear, does not tank related SP improve on a militia tank?

Void weve veen throug several nerfs as tankers and still we held out and carried on holding the flag. Yes our tanks need a buff and with tankers like you anf I arroun who are happy to help the new tankers then tanking in dust will never die out . It will just remain as difficult and possibly vecome more elietist than it is just now. (That is not a good thin) but on the other hand if they make it too easy then tanks will be spammed lime the llavs were and a nerf would shortly follow. Its a good thing tanking isnt easy but its a bad tging if its too hard.

Redline Railgun Soma is possible, want that?

You can go 30/1 in every match, but that 1 is the problem, to be a tanker you have not to die for at least 4/5 match in order to make profit.
The real problem is not KDR but Isk.

I'm not saying increase cost, they are already very expensive. I am trying to say ( which i thought was quite clear ) is the high cost of tanks is in direct relation to the high KDR that tankers achieve.

Maybe I did read your replies to other folks the wrong way. I did sure read it as just that.
But you are now saying you don't want tanks to be more expensive than they already are, then I apologise and are happy that we both c it the same way.

Regards

Just saying mabe u guys are just paying for your KDR..

I don't want to offend you, but people like you, assuming that the only reason to tank is to boost KDR, are the main reason why the vehicle-infantry relationship in this game sucks that hard.

Anyway, if it were so easy to raise (this horrible thing which is) KDR, anyone in this game would be a tanker. Instead, tankers are maybe the 2% (just guessing) of the playerbase.

And if you wonder why... you can always call a tank and try to harvest kills.

You know that isn't true or I would be doing better in the games I play with you and Strong.

Your assumption is flawed in so many ways ...
- proto assaults can use miltia gear and still greatly benefit from their SP, tankers can't
- one cheap tank costs the ISK of 3 matches (skirmish), one expensive tank around 6 matches (skirmish), don't talk about enforcer where the hull alone is 6 matches ...
- people tend to go berserk against tanks, yesterday EoN scrubs wasted orbitals to kill me and other scrubs suicided into our redline to get me - won't happen vs dropsuits

You know that isn't true or I would be doing better in the games I play with you and Strong.

Fair enough, but 5 proto assault deaths is equivalent to 1 decent tank death, in terms of isk, but tankers such as yourself surely do not lose much per match for your 30-40 kills.

And i hope you read the whole thread in regards to my train of thought...

the whole ISK=kills thing really doesnt work, i can get as many, usually more kills in a match running my standard suit as i can in my 1.4mil isk 8mil sp tank

Admittedly didn't.

As to your point to Void I can loosehalf a dozen tanks a match if I keep bringing them in.... they are Soma though....

I have hylighted your problem right there. Yes I know and understand why you havent specked into the fotm maddys . Yes I agree with why you havent . But you will looses allot of tanks if you run malitia tanks.

Pretty sure True implied how bad they were with the whole " they are Soma's though... " thing.

That is the whole point of this thread Shaman, tankers pay ISK for KDR.

Just saying mabe u guys are just paying for your KDR..

I don't pay Isk for KDR (i'm shaman), i pay isk because i like to play with a vehicle (this alt, has sp invested only in vehicles, so i have no choice), KDR is a consequence of a tanker who tries to not go passive with ISK.
I would really like to play as logi vehicle (i'm a logi with my infantry main), the problem is that i'm not rewarded if i do that.
Another problem is that i don't have sp invested in dropsuit or weapons, not playing with a vehicle means a massacre for me, New players have better infantry equipment/dropsuits/weapons than me.

If at beginning of the game, someone on enemy team decide to start with proto-SL, we do not have positive KDR. Good driver doesn't have skill points in dropsuits or infantry weapons.

I'm curious what you describe as good KDR - me sniper have 9.+ with 3k kills, and HAV driver just 4.22 with 10k kills. It's not easy to kill someone with tank - when he know where you are, and what weapon you have. People with close range blasters need to risc a lot to get kill, those with mid range blasters doesn't have tank properly build. Railgun splash need 2-4 shots to kill someone, especially when he is in tanked proto Assault/Logistic suit. Missiles on HAV is totally joke against infantry.

Driving HAV's require actual skill to do so, while there is a lot of AV weapons that 'do the job for themself', SL for example are laag friendly(no matter what they always will hit).

You are correct sir most folks view tankd as killing mchiens with no other purpose but we fill a variety of rolles.

If you have a tanker on your squad then you should encourage them to use gadjets like scanners and mobile crus.

We are also exelent point DEFENCE wepons, if you have a blaster tank in a good position coveri g the rear objective then it will take an incredible ammount of coordination to take that objective . Many times when my corp stacked squads into fw I was often orderd to hold down the rear objective this role will not net you many kills if your enimy is smart and dosent run into your missiles or blaster fire like suicidal lemmings. But it will make sure the rear objective is allways a safe spawn location.

Red line rail tanks as much as everyone hates them are the ultimate area denile when enimy tanks are concerned as only a bad pilot will rush the front lines when a red line rail is present.

As I often tell new pilots dont over extend your reach and stick to the 3 ds of tanking Distract Demoralise and Destroy . If you follow these rules you will do well. But if you see the red mist and start chasing kills like a beserker you will die allot and shortly be out of isk.

Starya your many points and arguments are flawed in several aspects.

When you state things like tanks pay for a high kdr and are met with valid counter arguments like if we loose 1 tank every 5 games we are in a net loss. Unless we run 10 or 12 games of ambush in free suits. Do you know how mant times you can die in an ambus with free suits lol that totally negates our good kdr stats from tanking .

Tanks are not worth the current isk cost as it takes 5 games at keast to pay for a tank that can survive more than 4 or 5 vollys of swarms . When they reduced the module cost they doubled the turret price and that ended out with havs being more expensive than they were in chrome whare we acctually did domminate a battlefield.

Honestly most of the vet tankers like myself havs stayed with tanking after several nerfs not because wr want to be team stomping monsters but because we want to have fun in our tanks. Yes it may be hard to believe us tankers just want to have fun but having to grind 5 to 10 games of ambush in free suits to pay for 1 loss is not fun .... we are really the only class (other than comando) that is not viable for pc all tanks are good for in oc is point defense or rail snioing other tanks (if the proto av dosent get them first) we are the only class not to have anything proto . Thats just not fun when you are pitted up against wepons designed to destroy vehicles that are miles ahead of what we have.

If I you ever see me ingame squad up with me and ill drop you a tank of the highest speck (highest meta fit possible) aprox 2.4 mill (youll of couse send me the isk) then you can run it and see how its not worth its isk

I do understand what you are saying, but for arguments sake lets say you could run your tank 100% of the time without having to go assault to pay for it, your KDR would be huge. I know u guys love tanking but without the extreme cost of tanks you would run them 24/7 and the only way out would be for CCP to nerf the sh*t out of them so infantry could compete.

I guess what i'm getting at with this thread is the cost of tanks is balanced with the effectiveness on the battlefield. You might get popped after 15 kills but your assault brothers ( assuming an even match, not protostomp ) will take a lot more deaths, hence "ISKcost =Kdr" . The same goes for assault guys, people will generally get more kills with less deaths when they run their proto suits as compared to their BPO's.

edit- i will take you up on the tank drop, but of course i won't be sending any isk.

Look at the leader boards and its not hav pilots with all the insain kdrs it snipers and proto stomping assaults

yes tankers get lotsof kills when were tanking but to fund our efforts we run free ssuits and die allot thusly decreasing our kdr . Most serious tankers dont care about our kdr record wr acctually just want to have fun .

Forgive me man, i did not mean to imply that tankers are paying large sums of ISK purely for KDR as opposed to paying for a game style that they enjoy. I am just trying to point out that tanks are destructive and dominating on the battlefield and ( in my opinion) are worth the high cost involved in running one. There needs to be some drawback to running these beasts and i think the high ISK cost is doing a pretty good job of it.

Maybe they cost a lot because CCP doesnt want them being spammed in every single match? Its not much different than going from a STD suit to a PROTO dropsuit, price skyrockets so they're less sustainable but gain high efficiency. Going from proto suit to STD tank with proto mods is basically a massive upgrade. I highly doubt CCP intended tankers to literally live out their whole life inside a tank. A properly fit tank in a proper environment is devastating on ground infantry, add in infantry support and that AV guy wont last very long out in the open. Add in a second tank and you can cover each other's weak points/blind spots and trade who takes blows.

If they're gonna decrease the price of tanks, they should lower it's overall effectiveness to match that.
If they increase it's tankability, then they should lower it's overall speed to match that.

Same for tankers man, anyone can run in militia gear, does not tank related SP improve on a militia tank?

Just saying mabe u guys are just paying for your KDR..

This is a valid question from OP.


However, for purposes of balancing the battlefield and in-match gameplay:

KDR is irrelevant.
ISK is irrelevant

I guess what i really mean by KDR is not the numbers on the leader board - But the enjoyment factor.

This is an FPS so the endorphins are released when we kill someone hence we like playing the game- I'm just making a link between ISK spent and endorphin release ( kills ) if you will.

Just saying mabe u guys are just paying for your KDR..

It really comes down to how good of a tanker you are; if your good you will make isk on the other hand if your bad your one broke mercenary.

could much more easy get a high KD just going sniper.

isn't that a heavy dropsuit?

i guess but CCP addressed this with affirmative action i.e. the new map design.

i run REs on my sniper too.. there are much easier ways topad your K/D then tanking.

What I mean is, a main complaint of tankers seems to be that they can't be expected to grind as infantry because they don't have the SP and prefer to drive tanks. So if there'd be a tank variation that would be an equal non-factor as a dropsuit and equally cheap, you'd be happy?

I've gone 20/0 in a dropship before, and I know of plenty pilots who have done likewise if not better than that, does that mean I'm paying for my K/DR? (It's 1.37 btw) and do you know how I got that score? The enemy team fielded no AV, the only time you will see vehicles get a score like that is in one of two situations, the pilot plays smart making good use of friendly infantry to deal with AV and to protect the tank, that OP thing known as teamwork (OMG right?) and in matches where the red berries don't field AV, those are the only cases where vehicles get high K/DR's.

It's a simple fact that infantry can consistently field high scores at a much better ISK efficiency than a vehicle can, and everyone knows it's true, there's all this focus on the one or two matches where a tank stomps the enemy team, but none on the dozen matches where he's forced to withdraw or gets annihilated by enemy AV, and the even more numerous matches where he gets stomped on repeatedly due to the fact that most if not all of his sp is in vehicles skills and the infantry players get to use him as target practice as a result.

This whole paying for K/DR argument in regard to tanks is a load of BS, if want to have that argument go complain to the proto pub stompers, there the ones padding their K/DR with ISK.

hmm im thinking you did not read the whole thread, mabe check out my thoughts through out this thread.

Just saying mabe u guys are just paying for your KDR..[/quote

[quoe=straya fox][quoe=straya fox


Fair enough, but 5 proto assault deaths is equivalent to 1 decent tank death, in terms of isk, but tankers such as yourself surely do not lose much per match for your 30-40 kills.[/quote


I understand that you'r one of the better tankers void, but within those 5-10 matches where you lose only 1 tank you rack up a huge amount of kills without loss. What I'm trying to say in response to the many 'turrets and hulls cost to much threads' ,is mabe you guys are paying for that KDR.[/quote

[quoe=straya fox]

Chill man, i'm not saying nerf anything just the high expense of tanks is directly related to the high KDR that it entails...[/quote

And then on page 3 you change tack to


[qute=straya fox]
Forgive me man, i did not mean to imply that tankers are paying large sums of ISK purely for KDR as opposed to paying for a game style that they enjoy. I am just trying to point out that tanks are destructive and dominating on the battlefield and ( in my opinion) are worth the high cost involved in running one. There needs to be some drawback to running these beasts and i think the high ISK cost is doing a pretty good job of it.

I did, for the majority of the thread you have maintained that tankers pay ISK for their K/DR, here's some examples.


Thats a fair enough view and you should have started with it, would have stopped that knee jerk reaction every tanker got when he read the first page.

Now in my post I pointed out that I've gone 20/0 in a dropship before, now following the logic you used I would be paying ISK to get that many kills since that fit costs 900k ISK. I also pointed out that you will only see scores like that in two situations, where the enemy team is incompetent and doesn't field AV, and when the tanker is running with a squad that works well together and they successfully counter the enemy AV.

Apparently, to care about K/D is to be vanilla assault. Seems that anybody who tries to have fun and use the other things in this game like tanks are roundly criticized and despised.

I did, for the majority of the thread you have maintained that tankers pay ISK for their K/DR, here's some examples.


Thats a fair enough view and you should have started with it, would have stopped that knee jerk reaction every tanker got when he read the first page.

Now in my post I pointed out that I've gone 20/0 in a dropship before, now following the logic you used I would be paying ISK to get that many kills since that fit costs 900k ISK. I also pointed out that you will only see scores like that in two situations, where the enemy team is incompetent and doesn't field AV, and when the tanker is running with a squad that works well together and they successfully counter the enemy AV.

I could care much less about my KDR. The problem is ISK efficiency and proto AV that can solo a tank in the right hands or if it's on a tower.

As others have stated earlier, infantry can fall back to militia dropsuits and equipment and still have their millions of SP helping them. And I hear that a militia AR can still kill a proto suit.

For tanks though, the militia stuff is absolute crap. They blow up too easily. In fact, militia tanks decrease your ISK efficiency, so we are forced to pay a much higher price to increase our ISK efficiency. While for infantry, it's their choice if they want to pay more for better attributes at a higher cost.

- people tend to go berserk against tanks, yesterday EoN scrubs wasted orbitals to kill me and other scrubs suicided into our redline to get me - won't happen vs dropsuits

I can destroy any tank in under 45 seconds...

HAVs run over games because the playerbase lacks skill and know-how to catch up to sterilizing what's effective

Same for tankers man, anyone can run in militia gear, does not tank related SP improve on a militia tank?

Just saying mabe u guys are just paying for your KDR..

FFS, a KDR is meaningless. Who cares? Oh wait, is the problem that you are having trouble getting your own KDR high enough?

Seriously, a tank should should have a high KDR as it's a tank. If you want tankers to have a lower KDR then HTFU and pull out some AV when you see them.

Oh noes! Why should I have to change my fit? Waaah.

Read the thread derp, i clearly state that it is a tank, and is and should be destructive, and that in exchange for such power you gotta pay big ISK for it.

I also read you saying that tankers are paying for a high KDR.

an MLT tank still costs 500,000-300,000 to run tanks aren't free starter fits are...

but you get a gold star for effort!

Read the thread derp, i clearly state that it is a tank, and is and should be destructive, and that in exchange for such power you gotta pay big ISK for it.

isn't that a heavy dropsuit?

Pub matches are inherently unequal sometimes proto AV comes sometimes Char's tank squads of doom come...

also K/D only gets you...
...nothing