[quote=Master Jaraiya]

compared to a heavy... how much bigger is the hitbox of a tank? how much does a properly fit tank cost? why are these 5 kilogram Fg doing more damage than 1 million isk 10 ton railguns? ever thought about that?

OK so I am going to try to reply to each of the points you made. Obviously you love the FG so I assume you are a bit biased in your original post.

1) you say heavies are easiest to kill. Well nobody runs around with a FG in normal assault range. They are almost always on a tower and in fact are the hardest to kill while they are up high because they can easily find cover from fire below. So this point you make is a bit irrelevant.

2) FGers require heavy squad support. This is true and also plays into a point I will make later which makes FGers extra hard to remove from towers.

3) CQC? I think I cover that in 1...

4) Tower FG. OK so this is where the FG dominates. You say, how many towers are in the game? I have news for you, there are a lot and most of them can cover and completely protect an objective with a FG. You can't just fly a derpship up there because, oh wait there's a forge gunner up there. Plus, the FGer has squad support which usually means at least one logi who has drop up links, nanohives, etc. So what your saying is, that it isn't hard to fly a dropship, that gets one hit by a forge gun, up to the tower, drop infantry and take down a heavy, a logi, probably a few other enemies, and the drop uplinks. Well again, I have news for you, it's pretty challenging.

5) solo FGers... Well again, obviously they won't be solo. This would be no problem.

I am not complaining about the FG just yet, just saying the points you make aren't that accurate or relevant to the true power of the FG.

The real issue with the forge gun is, once you have a well supported FGer on a tower it is near impossible to remove / takes a lot of effort while the rest of the blueberries are busy getting over run. Furthermore, this FGer can fully defend against vehicles and completely lock down one objective at the same time. This is OP, plain and simple. I like the FG, it's a lot of fun and I think it should be powerful, but it's splash damage and travel speed make it a beast at taking out infantry. To add more, the thing is extremely easy to aim. Anyone who says it isn't is either terrible or lying, period.

My solution is to reduce the splash and slightly decrease the projectile velocity. In other words increasing the skill needed to use it while keeping the same power.

Unless the FG is on a tower tanks can easily evade Heavies. Nearly every tank I have killed with my FG (I stay on the ground) just sits perfectly still letting me continue to blast them.

If the tank is moving, I have to use team tactics and cover to get close enough to pop you with a couple AV nades and a FG shot. If you spot me with your blaster, I'm dead before I can charge my Assault FG. If you have Infantry support, I do not stand a chance at succeeding this way.

Should I not be rewarded for this type of effort? Of course I should!

Tanks.

easy to counter in CQC yea right now... with 1.4 not anymore. at range no not really, your just blowing smoking. btw in CQC the FG is a good first blow and if it doesn't kill you enemy they have lost over half their HP. it takes 3+ coordination to remove 1 heavy FG sniper and thats not OP? have you seen how high those towers are? TAC AR doesn't have that much range if the sat at the base and shot up. and LOL getting a DS above them it next to impossible and that is if you get the DS to the fight ceiling before getting shot down.

To use a FG you must use a Heavy Dropsuit. The Heavy Dropsuit is by far the Easiest dropsuit to counter in the game because of our very large hitbox and very slow Movement/Sprint Speed.

FG (and other) Heavies require intensive squad support in the form of nanohives, armor repair, and nanite injectors in order to be mildly effective in any battle situation.

Once in CQC the FG is useless. This limits the Heavy to a side arm, making him extremely vulnerable to enemy attack.

The Tower Forge Gunner complaint is the most common. People complain because "they are on a high tower and don't render" Seriously guys how many towers exist in this game that are only accessible with dropships? It is not that difficult to figure out where their perch is. Once located it is not difficult to use some elementary squad coordination to take them out.

Solo Tower FG heavies can easily be countered by a Medium or Light Suit team of two. One with an active scanner and shotgun or AR or nearly any other Handheld light weapon in the game another with a sniper rifle or *gasp* Heavy with a FG. If the Heavy is on a tower with no ladder Squad Coordination can be used to easily locate the Heavy for snipers to focus fire and nullify the threat. A dropship should be in position at flight ceiling over the tower to then land on the tower and remove any uplinks or nanohives. Even the Tac AR can easily take out a Tower FG Heavy from the ground.

Feel free to add more reasons why the FG is not Overpowered.

OK so I am going to try to reply to each of the points you made. Obviously you love the FG so I assume you are a bit biased in your original post.

1) you say heavies are easiest to kill. Well nobody runs around with a FG in normal assault range. They are almost always on a tower and in fact are the hardest to kill while they are up high because they can easily find cover from fire below. So this point you make is a bit irrelevant.

2) FGers require heavy squad support. This is true and also plays into a point I will make later which makes FGers extra hard to remove from towers.

3) CQC? I think I cover that in 1...

4) Tower FG. OK so this is where the FG dominates. You say, how many towers are in the game? I have news for you, there are a lot and most of them can cover and completely protect an objective with a FG. You can't just fly a derpship up there because, oh wait there's a forge gunner up there. Plus, the FGer has squad support which usually means at least one logi who has drop up links, nanohives, etc. So what your saying is, that it isn't hard to fly a dropship, that gets one hit by a forge gun, up to the tower, drop infantry and take down a heavy, a logi, probably a few other enemies, and the drop uplinks. Well again, I have news for you, it's pretty challenging.

5) solo FGers... Well again, obviously they won't be solo. This would be no problem.

I am not complaining about the FG just yet, just saying the points you make aren't that accurate or relevant to the true power of the FG.

The real issue with the forge gun is, once you have a well supported FGer on a tower it is near impossible to remove / takes a lot of effort while the rest of the blueberries are busy getting over run. Furthermore, this FGer can fully defend against vehicles and completely lock down one objective at the same time. This is OP, plain and simple. I like the FG, it's a lot of fun and I think it should be powerful, but it's splash damage and travel speed make it a beast at taking out infantry. To add more, the thing is extremely easy to aim. Anyone who says it isn't is either terrible or lying, period.

My solution is to reduce the splash and slightly decrease the projectile velocity. In other words increasing the skill needed to use it while keeping the same power.

No tanks only have standard variations. So your tank is suppose to get torn to pieces by a proto FG. Not saying I like the fact, but it is a fact. Now when they roll out the advanced tanks and proto tanks then those FG wont be much.

ah i see why you say the FG isn't OP. lack of tactical use.


"I stay on the ground"

its like saying free orbitals isn't OP because you limit yourself to one a game when the game doesn't.

I put on a militia heavy and militia forge( militia rep, no grenades)..went 12/0 in a few games.

*snip*

I usually play as a CQC sniper.( this is a relative statement as in I'm within 100m of my target usually).

It isn't that difficult to evade a FG long enough to get to the flight ceiling. Once you are there you just need to wait for your other squad mates to to coordinate their efforts to either distract the Forge Gunner or take him out. Then lower your DS to the tower. It is called "tactics" maybe you have heard of this? The FG range is not "LOLthewholemap" It is 299m. I can see tanks and installations in my LoS that are out of range of my FG and take no damage if I shoot from out of range.

Hear that, guys? Its super easy to take out a forge gunner. All you have to do is coordinate an entire squad, with a vehicle he can easily shoot down if you're not careful, to take down a single guy in a cheap heavy suit.

There's nothing OP about that at all.

Hey boss if it takes you a squad to take down a FG your doing it wrong.

1. Heavies are not easily countered, it takes a minimum of 2 charge sniper shots to kill one (that's fully stacked with complex Dmg mods and level 5 proficiency).

I was responding to that ridiculous post.

I really dislike tower FG tactics. But I totally see why people do it.

I'm also against OHK weapons, especially in a "high health" shooter.

I was responding to that ridiculous post.

I really dislike tower FG tactics. But I totally see why people do it.

I'm also against OHK weapons, especially in a "high health" shooter.

Your 47K isk infantry weapon does 126 less damage than my 900K proto rail gun. while having the same ROF.

The Tower Forge Gunner complaint is the most common. People complain because "they are on a high tower and don't render" Seriously guys how many towers exist in this game that are only accessible with dropships? It is not that difficult to figure out where their perch is. Once located it is not difficult to use some elementary squad coordination to take them out.

Every single map in this game has at least one tower that is only accessible by dropships. At least one.

A tower forge gunner should never get taken out by means of a dropship, as long as he is paying attention or has a mic with someone else who can tell him when a dropship is being brought in. And even if the dropship can somehow not get noticed by the forge gunner, he's still got to negotiate swarms and railgun tanks and installations to even get off the ground, let alone reach the flight ceiling.

As you've said a few times now, you stay on the ground, so really, what do you know about tower forging? Have you ever taken out a tower forger? Have you ever been taken out as a tower forger? If it weren't for the tower forgers, there'd be many fewer complaints about forge guns. Granted the assault is OP compared to the other FG variants but there are better fixes to this than nerfing or even tweaking forge guns:

Fix bloody rooftops! How many roofs are designed as wide flat surfaces? Shouldn't they be peaked? Ok not always but you need to have something to stop people being able to sit atop a roof and see pretty much the entire map unhindered. Add a chest height wall to the edges of every rooftop. Simple; it's already done on the interior of the biomass complex roof.

TL:DR - redesign roofs so they're not such easy perches, don't provide easy cover or don't allow decent views of all or key areas of maps.

Not biased, but I do love the FG.

1) I stay in AR range with my FG all the time. *shrugs* I don't play like a coward. The fact that "Forge Gunners are almost always on a tower" does not make the FG overpowered.

4) There are'nt so many towers that one cannot relatively quickly find a tower Forge Gunner. There are absolutely no towers in the game that have absolute FG range over the entire map and the DS flight ceiling so stop being lazy when you call in and fly your DS.

The FG has no problems, reducing the splash, decreasing the Projectile velocity or doing anything else to it would make it useless.

The splash is there to scatter Vehicle's infantry support like I state earlier in the thread. Reducing the projectile velocity would render it useless against vehicles by making it to easy to dodge.

what is a high health shooter, if you mean by having armor, shields and etc, do tanks and DS and Lavs make this a conventional shooter?

And by balance how do you counter logi lavs? (even a bisnitch to hit with a FG)

Hahahaha I love forge gunners who talk about tank drivers being scrubs and only wanting to be an invincible killing machine and don't want to use team work. Forge gun is very much the same, especially up in high places. I've seen a guy kill 3 dropships and a tank in under a minute with an officer forge.
Why should you be able to solo vehicles if you say vehicles shouldn't be able to solo infantry?