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ladwar
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Posted - 2013.08.26 20:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
easy to counter in CQC yea right now... with 1.4 not anymore. at range no not really, your just blowing smoking. btw in CQC the FG is a good first blow and if it doesn't kill you enemy has lost over half is HP. it takes 3+ coordination to remove 1 heavy FG sniper and thats not OP? have you seen how high those towers are? TAC AR doesn't have that much range if the sat at the base and shot up. and LOL getting a DS above them it next to impossible and that is if you get the DS to the fight ceiling before getting shot down. |
ladwar
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Posted - 2013.08.26 20:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:Smooth Assassin wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:To use a FG you must use a Heavy Dropsuit. The Heavy Dropsuit is by far the Easiest dropsuit to counter in the game because of our very large hitbox and very slow Movement/Sprint Speed.
FG (and other) Heavies require intensive squad support in the form of nanohives, armor repair, and nanite injectors in order to be mildly effective in any battle situation.
Once in CQC the FG is useless. This limits the Heavy to a side arm, making him extremely vulnerable to enemy attack.
The Tower Forge Gunner complaint is the most common. People complain because "they are on a high tower and don't render" Seriously guys how many towers exist in this game that are only accessible with dropships? It is not that difficult to figure out where their perch is. Once located it is not difficult to use some elementary squad coordination to take them out.
Solo Tower FG heavies can easily be countered by a Medium or Light Suit team of two. One with an active scanner and shotgun or AR or nearly any other Handheld light weapon in the game another with a sniper rifle or *gasp* Heavy with a FG. If the Heavy is on a tower with no ladder Squad Coordination can be used to easily locate the Heavy for snipers to focus fire and nullify the threat. A dropship should be in position at flight ceiling over the tower to then land on the tower and remove any uplinks or nanohives. Even the Tac AR can easily take out a Tower FG Heavy from the ground.
Feel free to add more reasons why the FG is not Overpowered. Reasons FG is OP: Have you ever wanted a weapon that has a powerful range and powerful against all types of entities even at close range or any range well the assault forge gun is your pick counter any infantry and vehicle. LOL at FG in close range. If you get killed in CQC by a FG then you should find another game because this on obviously isn't for you. guess you have never used the FG to OHK in CQC then. |
ladwar
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Posted - 2013.08.26 20:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:ladwar wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:Smooth Assassin wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:To use a FG you must use a Heavy Dropsuit. The Heavy Dropsuit is by far the Easiest dropsuit to counter in the game because of our very large hitbox and very slow Movement/Sprint Speed.
FG (and other) Heavies require intensive squad support in the form of nanohives, armor repair, and nanite injectors in order to be mildly effective in any battle situation.
Once in CQC the FG is useless. This limits the Heavy to a side arm, making him extremely vulnerable to enemy attack.
The Tower Forge Gunner complaint is the most common. People complain because "they are on a high tower and don't render" Seriously guys how many towers exist in this game that are only accessible with dropships? It is not that difficult to figure out where their perch is. Once located it is not difficult to use some elementary squad coordination to take them out.
Solo Tower FG heavies can easily be countered by a Medium or Light Suit team of two. One with an active scanner and shotgun or AR or nearly any other Handheld light weapon in the game another with a sniper rifle or *gasp* Heavy with a FG. If the Heavy is on a tower with no ladder Squad Coordination can be used to easily locate the Heavy for snipers to focus fire and nullify the threat. A dropship should be in position at flight ceiling over the tower to then land on the tower and remove any uplinks or nanohives. Even the Tac AR can easily take out a Tower FG Heavy from the ground.
Feel free to add more reasons why the FG is not Overpowered. Reasons FG is OP: Have you ever wanted a weapon that has a powerful range and powerful against all types of entities even at close range or any range well the assault forge gun is your pick counter any infantry and vehicle. I have, but it requires a direct hit, which is not easy at all with the Assault FG. LOL at FG in close range. If you get killed in CQC by a FG then you should find another game because this on obviously isn't for you. guess you have never used the FG to OHK in CQC then. I have, but this requires a direct hit, which is very difficult with the Assault FG LOL no its not they even made it easier w/ better hit detection. i guess your horrible w/ the shotgun, plasma cannon and scambler pistol then as well and you need your bullet hoses *cough* HMG/smg *cough* |
ladwar
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Posted - 2013.08.26 20:41:00 -
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Master Jaraiya wrote:Disturbingly Bored wrote:Smooth Assassin wrote: Reasons FG is OP:
Have you ever wanted a weapon that has a powerful range and powerful against all types of entities even at close range or any range well the assault forge gun is your pick counter any infantry and vehicle.
Even at close range, eh? I take it you're also good at no-scoping with a sniper rifle. Forge Gun on a tower without ladder access is OP against vehicles because you have to fly the Forge Gunner's favorite prey up to kill him. It's only a nuisance against infantry up there, however, and less effective than your average sniper. And it isn't just Forge Guns that are good way up thar. They're just the ideal weapon for defending the position. IMO, Forge Gun's OPness is and always has been a map design issue. There should be no remote, defendable positions with only one method of access anywhere on any map. There is plenty of ways to counter the Forge Gunner on a tower. I detailed them in my original post. I will reiterate. Spawn a DS in your ground spawn then immediately take it to the flight ceiling. Both of these locations are out of FG range. While at flight ceiling hover over the tower, then wait for your squad to distract or kill the Forge Gunner, then drop down and take out his uplinks/nanohives. Done! pssss i kill RDVs and w/e vehicle ppl call in their red zones.. nice juicey 150 wp RDVs.
and sniping... with what rendering range? |
ladwar
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Posted - 2013.08.26 20:58:00 -
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Boot Booter wrote:OK so I am going to try to reply to each of the points you made. Obviously you love the FG so I assume you are a bit biased in your original post.
1) you say heavies are easiest to kill. Well nobody runs around with a FG in normal assault range. They are almost always on a tower and in fact are the hardest to kill while they are up high because they can easily find cover from fire below. So this point you make is a bit irrelevant.
2) FGers require heavy squad support. This is true and also plays into a point I will make later which makes FGers extra hard to remove from towers.
3) CQC? I think I cover that in 1...
4) Tower FG. OK so this is where the FG dominates. You say, how many towers are in the game? I have news for you, there are a lot and most of them can cover and completely protect an objective with a FG. You can't just fly a derpship up there because, oh wait there's a forge gunner up there. Plus, the FGer has squad support which usually means at least one logi who has drop up links, nanohives, etc. So what your saying is, that it isn't hard to fly a dropship, that gets one hit by a forge gun, up to the tower, drop infantry and take down a heavy, a logi, probably a few other enemies, and the drop uplinks. Well again, I have news for you, it's pretty challenging.
5) solo FGers... Well again, obviously they won't be solo. This would be no problem.
I am not complaining about the FG just yet, just saying the points you make aren't that accurate or relevant to the true power of the FG.
The real issue with the forge gun is, once you have a well supported FGer on a tower it is near impossible to remove / takes a lot of effort while the rest of the blueberries are busy getting over run. Furthermore, this FGer can fully defend against vehicles and completely lock down one objective at the same time. This is OP, plain and simple. I like the FG, it's a lot of fun and I think it should be powerful, but it's splash damage and travel speed make it a beast at taking out infantry. To add more, the thing is extremely easy to aim. Anyone who says it isn't is either terrible or lying, period.
My solution is to reduce the splash and slightly decrease the projectile velocity. In other words increasing the skill needed to use it while keeping the same power. ^ thanks for a longer post.
"the thing is extremely easy to aim" |
ladwar
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Posted - 2013.08.26 21:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:Anmol Singh wrote:[quote=Master Jaraiya]
compared to a heavy... how much bigger is the hitbox of a tank? how much does a properly fit tank cost? why are these 5 kilogram Fg doing more damage than 1 million isk 10 ton railguns? ever thought about that? Unless the FG is on a tower tanks can easily evade Heavies. Nearly every tank I have killed with my FG (I stay on the ground) just sits perfectly still letting me continue to blast them. If the tank is moving, I have to use team tactics and cover to get close enough to pop you with a couple AV nades and a FG shot. If you spot me with your blaster, I'm dead before I can charge my Assault FG. If you have Infantry support, I do not stand a chance at succeeding this way. Should I not be rewarded for this type of effort? Of course I should! ah i see why you say the FG isn't OP. lack of tactical use.
"I stay on the ground"
its like saying free orbitals isn't OP because you limit yourself to one a game when the game doesn't. |
ladwar
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Posted - 2013.08.26 23:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:Disturbingly Bored wrote:Smooth Assassin wrote: Reasons FG is OP:
Have you ever wanted a weapon that has a powerful range and powerful against all types of entities even at close range or any range well the assault forge gun is your pick counter any infantry and vehicle.
Even at close range, eh? I take it you're also good at no-scoping with a sniper rifle. Forge Gun on a tower without ladder access is OP against vehicles because you have to fly the Forge Gunner's favorite prey up to kill him. It's only a nuisance against infantry up there, however, and less effective than your average sniper. And it isn't just Forge Guns that are good way up thar. They're just the ideal weapon for defending the position. IMO, Forge Gun's OPness is and always has been a map design issue. There should be no remote, defendable positions with only one method of access anywhere on any map. I agree, the level design is partly to blame. The forge gun though isn't that overpowered possibly the splash range, however its all about direct hits with that thing anyway. It can be sniped and it can be counter forge gunned. You dont moan that your AR doesn't have the range to deal with a sniper up high do you? You generally switch to your own sniper rifle. sniper rifles don't kill dropships so even if they get somewhere that requires at to get in range you can still CQC them with said AR, forges do. solo sniper i go there and kick his butt without changing weapons. |
ladwar
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Posted - 2013.08.27 00:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
Henchmen21 wrote:A rail gun fires and actual factual projectile, it uses successive magnetic fields to launch said projectile therefore no magnetic field to maintain. You claim the FG doesn't fire an actual projectile, therefore its not a rail gun at least not in the traditional sense. Either way if its not firing an actual projectile its firing a ball of energy which would require a magnetic field to keep the energy from dissipating. This is a railgun forge guns are not true rail guns. the rail turrets have a short charge time which is charging a capacitator for the rails. the forge is making a magnetic field to shot (aka a kinetic slugs) using asynchronous linear motor. in short they should have a much smaller range and drop off. the rounds them self do not travel at this LOL 7000m/s just the charge in inside the magnetic field. that is why the clips look like 4.5 volt batteries...yea the big ones. |
ladwar
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Posted - 2013.08.27 00:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:Henchmen21 wrote:A rail gun fires and actual factual projectile, it uses successive magnetic fields to launch said projectile therefore no magnetic field to maintain. You claim the FG doesn't fire an actual projectile, therefore its not a rail gun at least not in the traditional sense. Either way if its not firing an actual projectile its firing a ball of energy which would require a magnetic field to keep the energy from dissipating. This is a railgun Your the one who claimed that it required "maintaining it's magnetic field at such high velocity over such a long distance" I was basing my statement off of your *fail logic as the same technology is used in both weapons, one is simply smaller than the other! By your own description the FG is a rail gun. So is the Sniper Rifle as they actually have ammunition that gets used up as you fire. The "Railgun Installation Turrets" and HAV "Railgun Turrets" are not actual "railgun" weapons because they have no physical ammunition that is used up. Also this is not real life. The Dust 514 "Railgun" did not originate in the U.S. Navy, and is hardly comparable! In Dust 514, the FG is the same exact technology used in your HAV's Rail Turret, The Railgun Installations, Sniper Rifles, and soon to come Cal. Rail Rifle and Rail Pistol. So if the FG munition has a nerf to it's travel velocity so should every other railgun weapon! I'm beginning to think you are simply arguing for the sake of arguing at this point in which case you double the fail! forge= big bright ball rails= projectile that is clearly seen.
forge Gëá rail forge = same type of damage as rail which is high velocity kinetic energy. |
ladwar
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Posted - 2013.08.27 01:00:00 -
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Henchmen21 wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:Henchmen21 wrote: Here I bolded the key parts your reading comprehension fails to grasp. You are the only one that said rail guns don't fire projectiles. Yes its a game but a railgun is a railgun now and in the future. When I fire my rail turret I see an actual projectile leave the barrel. When you fire a FG I see a ball of energy. Because CCP didn't bother to define where the ammo comes from doesn't mean its not firing a physical projectile. The suspension of disbelief in this instances is where all the energy is coming from in both cases.
So now you resort to insulting my reading comprehension lol. GTFO man. Let me explain it to you and bold the parts your reading comp fails to grasp. The FG, Sniper Rifle, Rail Turret, Railgun Installation all use the exact same technology!
You are trying to claim that the FG fires a "ball of energy" lol if this is the case, then all Rail gun weapons fire a "ball of energy" If the rail turret fires a magnetically propelled projectile, then all Rail weapons fire a magnetically propelled projectile including the FG! So the same physics should apply to all rail based weaponry!I underlined it for you as well in case you missed the bold! I am not claiming anything, its clear as day they fire different projectiles. If its the same technology the visual effect would be the same. and the firing mechanism would be the same. rails= really short charge time forge= really long charge time. rails= clip has ammo forge= clip looks like a 4.5 volt battery
face it forge Gëá rail forge = same type of damage as rail.
just like the plasma cannon is plasma but the AR is projectile rounds w/ plasma in them. |
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ladwar
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Posted - 2013.08.27 01:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:Henchmen21 wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:Henchmen21 wrote: Here I bolded the key parts your reading comprehension fails to grasp. You are the only one that said rail guns don't fire projectiles. Yes its a game but a railgun is a railgun now and in the future. When I fire my rail turret I see an actual projectile leave the barrel. When you fire a FG I see a ball of energy. Because CCP didn't bother to define where the ammo comes from doesn't mean its not firing a physical projectile. The suspension of disbelief in this instances is where all the energy is coming from in both cases.
So now you resort to insulting my reading comprehension lol. GTFO man. Let me explain it to you and bold the parts your reading comp fails to grasp. The FG, Sniper Rifle, Rail Turret, Railgun Installation all use the exact same technology!
You are trying to claim that the FG fires a "ball of energy" lol if this is the case, then all Rail gun weapons fire a "ball of energy" If the rail turret fires a magnetically propelled projectile, then all Rail weapons fire a magnetically propelled projectile including the FG! So the same physics should apply to all rail based weaponry!I underlined it for you as well in case you missed the bold! I am not claiming anything, its clear as day they fire different projectiles. If its the same technology the visual effect would be the same. The visual effect is the same on the FG as it is on the Railgun Installations, and the Sniper Rifle! come on you know that is a bold face lie. |
ladwar
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Posted - 2013.08.27 02:24:00 -
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Master Jaraiya wrote:Henchmen21 wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:Henchmen21 wrote: Here I bolded the key parts your reading comprehension fails to grasp. You are the only one that said rail guns don't fire projectiles. Yes its a game but a railgun is a railgun now and in the future. When I fire my rail turret I see an actual projectile leave the barrel. When you fire a FG I see a ball of energy. Because CCP didn't bother to define where the ammo comes from doesn't mean its not firing a physical projectile. The suspension of disbelief in this instances is where all the energy is coming from in both cases.
So now you resort to insulting my reading comprehension lol. GTFO man. Let me explain it to you and bold the parts your reading comp fails to grasp. The FG, Sniper Rifle, Rail Turret, Railgun Installation all use the exact same technology!
You are trying to claim that the FG fires a "ball of energy" lol if this is the case, then all Rail gun weapons fire a "ball of energy" If the rail turret fires a magnetically propelled projectile, then all Rail weapons fire a magnetically propelled projectile including the FG! So the same physics should apply to all rail based weaponry!I underlined it for you as well in case you missed the bold! I am not claiming anything, its clear as day they fire different projectiles. If its the same technology the visual effect would be the same. "the forge gun utilizes a stored electric charge to fire kinetic slugs at speeds in excess of 7,000 m/s, enough to penetrate even augmented armor systems. During the pre-fire charge, the forward armature locks into position, stabilizing the magnetic field and helping to shield the user from backscatter and the excessive heat produced" The magnetic field is what fires the "kinetic slug". Kinetic energy is defined as the energy an object (in this case the slug) has due to its motion! If there is no object, there is no kinetic energy! This "kinetic slug" can be associated with this. "The railgun weaponizes velocity by using magnetic fields to accelerate projectiles to hypersonic speeds." Quotes taken from Dust 514 Wiki They both fire a magnetically propelled projectile!!!!!! The FG is powered by a battery!!! IT IS THE SAME TECHNOLOGY!!!!!!!!!
it is not the same technology, it is similar technology
btw
"This article needs additional citations for verification" that page has not been verified and its been up over 5 years.... that's a long while for it not to be verified... why because its wrong. |
ladwar
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Posted - 2013.08.27 02:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
i would but i don't feel like talking to donkeys that once they are confronted go into a spasm yelling they are right when they can't see that everything they use just goes to prove them wrong. |
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