Well if you think that the missiles bending around corners/cover, locking on through objects, jumping while locking, firing while locking, not even looking at the target and still maintaining lock and able to fire, insta locking, no contermeasures, invisible swarms are all perfectly fine then you are the idiot

We don't want to be invincible, we want to be competitive, not have 10k's worth of nades destroy over a million ISK.
We want our higher tier vehicles, y'all gots your proto gear

Maybe rather than post garbage, you understand the situation.

I hate when a starter suit with a militia sniper pops my proto logi in the head, that **** should never happen!

Yall don't understand............................. CCP has done a good job to make tanks fair just about how they are now. Let's not ruin that please.

cuz we dont have militia **** attacking us....lol, thats 1 man atacking 1 man. 1 man versus 1 tank shouldn't be the same story.

Infantry:

"Tanks need to stop coming in thinking they're invincible", Tankers die and lose millions coming in close with a squad and getting killed by suicide naders.
"Tanks need to stop hiding on the red line" Tankers hiding on the red line because of above.

Repeat.

---

King of the Forums // Seraphim <3
Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here!
Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here!

Yall don't understand. Tanks should never be destroyable by 1 person with a forge gun. They should always require a team of 3-4 people with av weapons. I hate the people who think that 3 av grenades should kill a tank. Same goes for the people who want to patch lavs. NEWS FLASH 2 people with proto swarms on a rooftop and any lav problem is gone. CCP has done a good job to make tanks fair just about how they are now. Let's not ruin that please.

Also for the record, I have no problems with forge guns versus tanks damage wise, they also have the invisible attacks which is the problem. For dropship they are worse, because dropship hit detection always lies about the direction of the hit.
He's in your own redline!!!! don't hide there...lol. It's ridiculous.
Things I dont agree with is:
Invisible attacks
ease of access to AV, compared to a tank.
And the fact we only have STD tanks, and are mocked by CCP with their awesome Enforcer. Only thing they enforce is rail sniping in the redline so you don't loose 2million ISK to a much better 800k maddy.

kids these days

kids these days

If a person solos a good tank even with Proto AV, they deserved to die.

At least an armor tank.

If you chose shield tanks, different story. I can solo a shield tank with flux/MD.

If a person solos a good tank even with Proto AV, they deserved to die.

At least an armor tank.

If you chose shield tanks, different story. I can solo a shield tank with flux/MD.

If you're getting killed by a lone heavy with a FG while driving a tank... That heavy is doing his job. Bugger off with this crap about tanks needing to be stronger.

Added note: If the FG wasn't meant to be used in AV, it wouldn't exist for any other use. Sure, we can use it for infantry but with the current aim mishap, it's a little asking of us to be doing what the people with, you know, anti-infantry weapons should be doing while we take on something that can one hit every suit.

If a lone heavy with a FG takes you out, you're not doing your job right.

Good tank

Its basic against proto AV

Good joke

IMO, tanks themselves in current state are fine. What we need is a nice price reduction in the guns and some of the modules, and the tank itself. And of course the release of prototype tanks.

If an armor tank gets solo'd they deserved it. But that's harsh considering the crap matchmaking in pubs. You guys still need support dealing with FGers.

I don't envy tankers. They certainly need work.

For the time being I think they should reduce the cost.

Yall don't understand. Tanks should never be destroyable by 1 person with a forge gun. They should always require a team of 3-4 people with av weapons. I hate the people who think that 3 av grenades should kill a tank. Same goes for the people who want to patch lavs. NEWS FLASH 2 people with proto swarms on a rooftop and any lav problem is gone. CCP has done a good job to make tanks fair just about how they are now. Let's not ruin that please.

If an armor tank gets solo'd they deserved it. But that's harsh considering the crap matchmaking in pubs. You guys still need support dealing with FGers.

I don't envy tankers. They certainly need work.

For the time being I think they should reduce the cost.

just for the record , the only thing i hate about tanks are those that camp in red zone UP in the mountains and who snipe all over the map

i respect those who come and fight

just for the record , the only thing i hate about tanks are those that camp in red zone UP in the mountains and who snipe all over the map

i respect those who come and fight

Make a compelling argument why it shouldn't take a small team to destroy a tank, but rather one person with cheap PRO AV should do it.

Your respect will not pay for anyone tank; out of curiosity - what solution do you have for tanks that you "hate"?

Make a compelling argument why it shouldn't take a small team to destroy a tank, but rather one person with cheap PRO AV should do it.

This part makes you look silly.
The best thing you can do after being shot by Proto SL if you are in Madruger, is to turn on all hardeners/AR, jump out and recall vehicle - you have time of 5 waves from one guy to finish recalling your vehicle. If you will turn on all modules after second wave, your armor repair unit will not have enough time to start working = 3 waves.

Many Armor-tanks get soled by proto SL, and for sure they don't deserve for it.

just for the record , the only thing i hate about tanks are those that camp in red zone UP in the mountains and who snipe all over the map

i respect those who come and fight

If a person solos a good tank even with Proto AV, they deserved to die.

At least an armor tank.

If you chose shield tanks, different story. I can solo a shield tank with flux/MD.

If an armor tank gets solo'd they deserved it. But that's harsh considering the crap matchmaking in pubs. You guys still need support dealing with FGers.

I don't envy tankers. They certainly need work.

For the time being I think they should reduce the cost.

excuse me good sir :). Have you tried running a tank in a pc match? Against prof AV lol? Its not fun. Its because of pubbies like yourself that got the tank squashed.

Im in EON we are rich *****.

Give me 100 million ISK?

Tanks are expensive :P

I hate when a starter suit with a militia sniper pops my proto logi in the head, that **** should never happen!

LOL you funny.

If you're getting killed by a lone heavy with a FG while driving a tank... That heavy is doing his job. Bugger off with this crap about tanks needing to be stronger.

Added note: If the FG wasn't meant to be used in AV, it wouldn't exist for any other use. Sure, we can use it for infantry but with the current aim mishap, it's a little asking of us to be doing what the people with, you know, anti-infantry weapons should be doing while we take on something that can one hit every suit.

If a lone heavy with a FG takes you out, you're not doing your job right.

tankers in dust514 are lucky yet they want more

tankers in dust514 are lucky yet they want more

Tanks should always require a team of 3-4 players with av to take them out,listen to that guy please

On a game mode with only 16 people on each team? Yea... sure. You know, it only takes one person to lay down and set off remotes, are you gonna say that's unfair too that a solo guy can take you out with remotes with a single press of a button? Tanks514 incoming.

Clearly you weren't playing (or weren't paying attention) back in December, when it actually did take a small team to kill a tank and therefore, bringing three or more tanks to the battlefield always won the game. If this were an open-world game we might be able to work something out, but in a 16-vs-16 game, it's ridiculously unbalanced to allow one person to take three or four people out of the fight to deal specifically with him.

It can take a small team to kill a tank when it takes a small team to operate a tank. Until then, it seems to me the cost needs to be balanced more than battlefield effectiveness.


This part makes you look silly. The best thing you can do after being shot at by a Madrugar if you're in an infantry dropsuit is to run for cover and hope he goes away. Many infantry get soloed by tanks, and for sure they don't deserve it.

Rock, meet paper.

The issues as I see them:

1) AV grenades need to be rebalanced so they're largely ineffective against tanks and dropships. I think they're still needed to deal with LAVs, but even after some of the nerfs, they still make skilling into dedicated AV seem a bit silly.

2) Dropships need love.

3) Vehicles cost too much for people to use them on a regular basis, so unless CCP wants to redefine the skill tree so that you can't skill into vehicles without skilling into infantry first, the cost needs to drop. As it is, people have every right to believe they should be able to play nothing but vehicles in every match, so either make that option viable or take it off the table.

You mean back when the only swarm launchers used were militia because even a proto wouldn't do jack, and the tank would go 60-0 for a dozen or so matches then die from a disconnect?

yeah cuz destroying one tank from cover isnt doable

wow some people

"bu bu ich bin tank , i cost mony , i need to kill all , with ease "

go play World of Tanks that way no man can kill you but tanks

http://worldoftanks.com/

How about we think of it another way. Pre-uprising heavies. You know, the big sharks that roamed around and needed more than one guy to kill. Of course in heavy vs heavy, it was an even match.
Now maybe I'm making too big of a jump here, but it ought to be the same idea with tanks. Tanks are the heavy. It takes a few AV guys to bring down a tank, but tank vs tank is an even match. Of course I'm not expecting anyone who isnt a tank to be able to understand where my point is coming from, especially when they dont have to pay for a tank.
For the record I've been around long enough to try everything other than HMG and AR. HMG because I never got around to it, AR because those things are game breaking now.

We don't want to be invincible, we want to be competitive, not have 10k's worth of nades destroy over a million ISK. Between Av and invisble attacks, turret installations locking on and hitting from just about anywhere, the cheap shots are annoying.
We want our higher tier vehicles, y'all gots your proto gear

Maybe rather than post garbage, you understand the situation.

It's a rare occurance, but sometimes you run into tanks still these days who manage to get 30+ kills and survive, while being in the frontline.. I don't know how, but they do it.. and can gtfo like nothing I have seen before o.0

Its because those are good tankers, usually in a squad all with voice coms, and the rest of his squad sticks close and defends him. If anyone tries to sneak up on him with AV grenades the infantry calls it out and kills the grenadier. The extra eyes also notice where forge gun fire and swarms are coming from and call it out so the tanker can take cover or deal with it.

Yall don't understand. Tanks should never be destroyable by 1 person with a forge gun. They should always require a team of 3-4 people with av weapons. I hate the people who think that 3 av grenades should kill a tank. Same goes for the people who want to patch lavs. NEWS FLASH 2 people with proto swarms on a rooftop and any lav problem is gone. CCP has done a good job to make tanks fair just about how they are now. Let's not ruin that please.

in my opinion the best Tanks in game shouldn't be easily taken out with hardeners on in my opinion CCP should

Increase the Cool down on all modules
increase the power of all moduless
Increase the Duration of all modules

increasing the cooldown creates a vulnerable time when all modules are disabled that allows Av players to take out the tank

militia and standard Av weapons would take 6-7 shots to take the tank out
advanced 4-5
and prototype 2-3

this also increases the viability to passive modules since it would allow the tank to endure more than if its main active modules are down

increasing the Power and Duration of the modules allows tanks to attack a position for a period of time

where they either succeed or fail
succeess gives a temporary safe zone
failure allows the enemy team a time to not have to deal with a tank for a while

T-55 500k-1kk USD
RPG rocket 50 USD

Ambusher Trooper used RPG rocket
It is super effective
T-55 blows up.

Where I can buy RPG for 50$ IWS, link or it didn't happen.

I love "real life example":
- Can I shot down RPG missile that is heading to target in real life?
- May I hide behind indestructible rock to prevent destroying my tank(because here in Dust, 300k years in future rooks are stronger than tanks, and it is normal).
- If infantry is hiding in building, do I have to shoot them directly in chest or may I blow up the whole building with my tank in real life?

You're absolutely right, IWS is totally off the mark. Just like in real life tanks require crews to operate and don't have infinite ammo.

You fully understand my point of view, any kind of comparison does not have a sense.

PS
I would like to have limited number of ammunition on my tank.

I hate when a starter suit with a militia sniper pops my proto logi in the head, that **** should never happen!

T-55 500k-1kk USD
RPG rocket 50 USD

Ambusher Trooper used RPG rocket
It is super effective
T-55 blows up.

******* mong, this is one of the stupidest things I've seen you post IWS, and you post some ******* ridiculous things.

Show me where the Tank Driver (if he survives) goes to grind for cash to buy a new tank.

Now get the **** out you lousy CPM.

you are confusing reality with virtual reality
take a chill pill
geez

On a game mode with only 16 people on each team? Yea... sure. You know, it only takes one person to lay down and set off remotes, are you gonna say that's unfair too that a solo guy can take you out with remotes with a single press of a button? Tanks514 incoming.

it wont be tank 514 unless infantry becomes obsolete, jut because people go for something you don't like doesn't make it invalid

well some tankers want you to die if you touch their tank and they want to run ppl over in tanks

just for the record , the only thing i hate about tanks are those that camp in red zone UP in the mountains and who snipe all over the map

i respect those who come and fight

Tanks that come down, die.

Tankers complain when they're on the front lines that they die far too quickly against a coherent team, Infantry cries at them and tells them to "Adapt or Die"

Tankers now sit up in the red line, adapting the way you and the other Infantry players have told us to, and yet now you cry that we've adapted and we should now throw that away and come down to lose a tank that is valued between 700,000 to 2,400,000 ISK.

Also, your respect won't buy us new tanks, kthx.

---

King of the Forums // Seraphim <3
Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here!
Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here!

Infantry:

"Tanks need to stop coming in thinking they're invincible", Tankers die and lose millions coming in close with a squad and getting killed by suicide naders.
"Tanks need to stop hiding on the red line" Tankers hiding on the red line because of above.

Repeat.

the cooldown period could be like an overheat system draining the vehicle of any ability to use modules or recall until all module cooldowns have finished

Tanks that come down, die.

Tankers complain when they're on the front lines that they die far too quickly against a coherent team, Infantry cries at them and tells them to "Adapt or Die"

Tankers now sit up in the red line, adapting the way you and the other Infantry players have told us to, and yet now you cry that we've adapted and we should now throw that away and come down to lose a tank that is valued between 700,000 to 2,400,000 ISK.

Also, your respect won't buy us new tanks, kthx.

---

King of the Forums // Seraphim <3
Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here!
Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here!

That will make vehicle extremely-powerful or extremely-weak. Your idea push out low meta items and make proto-stuff more useful.

On my HAV I constantly have some module on cooldown. Infantry can shoot, run, fix each other armor in theory nearly as fast as HAV if several Logibro will lock them on RT, and they don't have any kind of cooldown, even if they re-supply they can constantly jump, shot everyone if face etc.

if i need to pay aprox 1.5 mill to use my madrugar or 2.5 for my vayu why should i be an easy kill? i SHOULD be the hardest thing to kill. but apparntly the chabrydis gets that trophy/glory. i mean really a JEEP is harden to kill than a big mother ******* HAV?

tanks are slower because they heavy so the time to get hits on them is bigger

tanks have more armor/shield than any LAV

lavs are faster because they smaller so the time to hit them is little

tank drivers can shoot long distance without changing seats

lav drivers cant shoot unless they switch places to a close range turret

if you park a lav and a tank and shoot them i doubt a tank would go boom first

basic stuff really you choose to ignore

iant talking about lavs bro. iam talike ab out the LOGISTICS lav. they take way more punishmnet than my maddy. i die to wykomi swarms/ ishkone forges but those chabbys (caldari LLAV) can apparently take more damage than my madrugar.

now if they only fixed rendering.

Right I mean i can see those turrets while on foot, but I get in a tank with zooming capabilities and suddenly I can't see them.

yes cuz LAVs sit still fo swarms or other means to destroy them , speed is a huge factor why you die in yo tank

you too slow

you can stop your pinochio act anytime now BRO

Do you realize that LLAV without any modules have 37% base resistance with Armor/Shield Upgrade skill on lvl5, and LLAV on lvl1? I guess no, because you think that "speed is a huge factor".
I need to hit Limbus 3 times with my pro-Railgun that have 3x10% dmg mods.

Just skill up HAV, LAV, DS all that stuff, play game for at least 2 months, then come on forums and produce equally interesting topics

We don't want to be invincible, we want to be competitive, not have 10k's worth of nades destroy over a million ISK. Between Av and invisble attacks, turret installations locking on and hitting from just about anywhere, the cheap shots are annoying.
We want our higher tier vehicles, y'all gots your proto gear

Maybe rather than post garbage, you understand the situation.

yes cuz LAVs sit still fo swarms or other means to destroy them , speed is a huge factor why you die in yo tank

you too slow

you can stop your pinochio act anytime now BRO

speed dosnt really affect swarms. i've even used my limbus and still get killed in 1-2 shots from a wykomi and thats with running a propulsion module. preeety anoying that those wykomis dont give a damm your running a rep.

settle this with sp ammount. how much do you have? i have 20 million sp and majority of it is in gallente hav's i basically have all lvl 5 srmour skills (exept for RR i dont use those) and all my turret skills are maxed except for lgr missiles (dont use them either) and i have lvl 3 shield skills every where. you tell me that with this sp ammount a LLAV can take more damge than me. if i come across the chabrydis i dont shoot it. i just slam into it if it gets to close.

SP doesnt matter here , im talking about avoiding swarms not outrunning them

let me guess , u take a corner and sit there?

yeah and avoiding them is either out running them going behind cover, killing the giuy laucnhing them. even if i go around a bend or behind cover i still get hit by those wykomi swamrs that do 90 degreee turns.

that depends on the distance the guy launched them from , if he was too close to you he most likely will fail and hit a corner

if he shot from far you most likely get hit because you will continue your route and swarms are after you and sometimes you get out behind your cover

unless you know his position all you have is guess

i have 2 characters , 1 is wirkomi and one is LLAV so i know both sides of the coin

get a tank and drive those around for a good 3 months then come back.

whats your point?

well obivulsoy your familair with av attacking your saftey box charbydris. get in a gunnlgoi or madrugar drive those and take some wykomi swarms and see how much eaiser you die than your saftey box.

thats because you basically a sitting target and i have time to empty my load in you and no one can stop me

get some defense with you aka infantry and play smart

dont go where a tank shouldnt be alone ala lone wolf rambo the terminator 5

i always miss tanks if i shoot from far , you need to be medium or if you can close distance to succesfully hit a tank

if you cant kill someone who is close to you from a fkin tank and if you are alone in that tank and alone in the area then the shame is on you

NEXT

makes sense that iam a sitting target while on the move and anyone that gets close is practially shredded by my scattered ion cannon. oh and even with the av the person can either be in a prto suit witht eh wykomi stacked with damge mods and be killed by the infantry but as sson as he fires the swarms and dies hes still going to hit hurt me bad or outright kill me. and majpority of the time the swarmers are either close to or in thier redline area where i cant get to. or they use high ass spires or use head glitching or sucide with laidai packed av nades on millita suits.

stop acting like you die from 1 shot

geez

Read the thread title.

yeah lol. iam nto saying i should be invincible. 1 guy killing a tank by himself wtf? 2 guys killing a tank with swarms. yeah reasonble that the tank blew up. if all it took was 2 guys to kill me then i would be happy. but i expect to be a difficult kill given iam driving a 1.5 mill pice of machenery compared to the cheaper av being used to kill me. raise the price on av and i'll gladly die to something thats a 150k-200k weapon capable of dealing a **** ton of damage to a tank. but a logistics lav should be eaiser to kill than even a stnd HAV.

So many topics like this so I'm just going to copy/paste my response from another thread .

T More and more I am coming up against HAVs that take an incredible amount of damage and keep on rolling. Several of them have taken 7 or more volleys of my proto swarm (3xComplex, Prof 3) and 3 or more Lai Dai and just kept on going as if I was a mosquito buzzing around their ears. Tanks may be paper thin as standard, but as with anything, put enough time/SP into them and they can be a beast.

I do not expect to be able to solo a tank by any means, and if I can, I enjoy it when it is a challenge as opposed to a 10 second fire and forget battle. Once we have proto tanks (god help the cries for AV buff/tank nerf when that happens) then the battlefield will be a lot more even, but people still need to realise that the tank isn't meant to be insta-win. You need a fair SP sink and good fitting to be an intimidating presence on the battlefield.

I have seen several people suggest removing proto AV until we have proto vehicles. I for one would be fine with this and feel it is unfair that one side of the equation has more advanced gear than the other.

But despite all this, we have two major updates on the way, so essenstially all arguments on AV balance are moot until after they arrive.

So many topics like this so I'm just going to copy/paste my response from another thread .

T More and more I am coming up against HAVs that take an incredible amount of damage and keep on rolling. Several of them have taken 7 or more volleys of my proto swarm (3xComplex, Prof 3) and 3 or more Lai Dai and just kept on going as if I was a mosquito buzzing around their ears. Tanks may be paper thin as standard, but as with anything, put enough time/SP into them and they can be a beast.

I do not expect to be able to solo a tank by any means, and if I can, I enjoy it when it is a challenge as opposed to a 10 second fire and forget battle. Once we have proto tanks (god help the cries for AV buff/tank nerf when that happens) then the battlefield will be a lot more even, but people still need to realise that the tank isn't meant to be insta-win. You need a fair SP sink and good fitting to be an intimidating presence on the battlefield.

I have seen several people suggest removing proto AV until we have proto vehicles. I for one would be fine with this and feel it is unfair that one side of the equation has more advanced gear than the other.

But despite all this, we have two major updates on the way, so essenstially all arguments on AV balance are moot until after they arrive.

Straight up lying

3+ Lai Dai = 6k+

7 proto swarms is 3k+ x 7 = 21k+

Total damage on 1 tank is 27k+

Straight up lying

3+ Lai Dai = 6k+

7 proto swarms is 3k+ x 7 = 21k+

Total damage on 1 tank is 27k+

obviously the tim between each volley and each grenade was to far apart to actually kill the tank

7 proto swarms and 3 lai dai AV andes

14k+5.3k
with armor damage bonus
17k+6.3k=23k damage right around the max damage a tank can take before getting destroyed and even then the tank would be on fire with no way to repair

and this is just base without damage mods

Lying? You do realise tanks can have repair and resists right? Smart tankers with good fits know how to take damage and stay alive. I've taken many a shield down only for them to activate a recharge and resist module allowing them to take a pounding. Yes the example I used is rare, but the point is tanks can be viable with a little work.

this is only assuming the target stands still and does not use proper tanks mods. if this is the case the deserves to die to a single guy tossing proto AV at him.

if the driver is not braindead, has his tank skills maxed and proper fit then the driver will activate his stuff and reposition himself and you will never get him. between repairs, resistance mods and the fact that swarms like to crash into the ground against moving targets means that even an armor tank can survive all those hits from a single player quite easily. you will require a second person or a forge gunner to take the tank down.

and if it is a shield tanker than the lolswarms and AV grenades only tickle.

no this is assuming that the tank took all those attacks

directly and used all modules at there most efficient times

an armor tank can not take any damage that exceeds 23k thats the threshold to immediate destruction regardless of what you do

6753 base health+ 6210 from repairs = 12963 total health from armor and repairs

.62 maxresist you can get from armor

12963*.62= an additional 8037 hp which brings your effective hp to 21k +1190 from shields

equals 22k damage before tank goes boom

this is assuming that the tank took all those attacks directly and used all modules at there most efficient times

an armor tank can not take any damage that exceeds around 23k that's the threshold to immediate destruction regardless of what you do

6753 base health+ 6210 from repairs = 12963 total health from armor and repairs

.62 is the max resist you can get from armor. This is with 2 hardeners passive armor reist maxed and Damage control Unit active

12963*.62 grants an additional 8037 hp which brings your effective hp to 21k

if you leveled up shield skills you can gain an additional 100 effective shields and the .09 from Damage Unit brings your total effecitve shield to 1190

which brings the total damage a tank can take before exploding to 22k

there is no way the tank can just shrug off the attacks that guy said without having an outside source stepping in

logis
supply depots
another vehicle with remote repair module

Hahaha not quite if you get a maddy and pummel hard enoigh whilst its reps are o it goes down. If I get 5 shots on a maddy in my glass cannon build it will die reps or not . And 5 shots is aprox 12k dammge.

because you so sure that you get a 3 full hit on a moving llav
you get a full hit if you lucky then im out of there
whats the point in having only lavs that get destroyed in 1 hit?
all you want is easy kill in yo snail character
care to test that?
i have LLAV

why are people so obsessed with proto tanks

we dont particularly need proto tanks

what we need are better modules to put on a better tank just incorporating proto tanks would barely change anything

We don't want to be invincible, we want to be competitive, not have 10k's worth of nades destroy over a million ISK. Between Av and invisble attacks, turret installations locking on and hitting from just about anywhere, the cheap shots are annoying.
We want our higher tier vehicles, y'all gots your proto gear

Maybe rather than post garbage, you understand the situation.

Hahaha not quite if you get a maddy and pummel hard enoigh whilst its reps are o it goes down. If I get 5 shots on a maddy in my glass cannon build it will die reps or not . And 5 shots is aprox 12k dammge.

PRO HAV have PRO stats. This means that they have more PG/CPU and base HP - it's all about that - PRO tanks allow players to fit better modules without suffering from low PG that MLT, STR have ;). We need ADV and PRO vehicles, maybe even RAR someday

can not fit best armor repair module and armor plate on my Madrugar, it's impossible without sacrifice 3 low slots for PG modules.. not mentioning about Turret(I may talking BS right now, but as far I remember it is very difficult to fit that what we was able to fit in previous build).

but power grid is not a problem currently

additoinal power grid could do two things for me

1.allow me to do is put a bigger gun on my tank without losing defense and that doesnt help me against infantry
2 put another .25 hardener but with stacking penalites it would only give an additional .14



and i guess you need to put more points into skills since i can fit the best 180 plate armor and repair modules as well as dual hardeners while only losing 1 low slot to a powergrid module

the only thing i cant put on my tank is a proto turret without lowering my armor extenders but even then i believe that's an intentional choice by CCP so you dont have tanks going around with both the best offense and defense