I would've went for M1 locus grenade. MD is a sore subject...

what it feels like to face a tank in militia gear.....

it feels like facing a tank in militia gear except it costs players and they quit, the smart ones get proto av and become the great equalizers.

It's like being in a Gallente basic standard frame and getting hit by a freedom mass driver...except it costs a lot more 2,000,000 instead of 8,000.

It's like being in a Gallente basic standard frame and getting hit by a freedom mass driver...except it costs a lot more 2,000,000 instead of 8,000.

Grenades are annoying. I don't like grenades of any kind.

Grenades are annoying. I don't like grenades of any kind.

I'm sorry, but you'll get no sympathy from me. Tanks take one man to use, so if one man in vastly greater metalevel, vastly multi-role crippling weaponry can kick your sorry tailpipe then good on them. Nothing against the tanks, but they have to gice something up to get something.

I'm sorry, but you'll get no sympathy from me. Tanks take one man to use, so if one man in vastly greater metalevel, vastly multi-role crippling weaponry can kick your sorry tailpipe then good on them. Nothing against the tanks, but they have to gice something up to get something.

I jus let my pal, Djin Marauder try out my awsume missile tank and he lost it within 6 seconds by a single forgegun

we can't take objectives, we're slow to start moving, there are weapons that are literally designed ONLY with taking us out in mind, grenades(which are borderline invisible) are our greatest threat, the crippling expense of fielding even a half-decent fitting.

what exactly do we get? more HP, and the biggest target on our backs on the field.

.... tanks are poop and everyone knows it. You are insaine, going tank is a handicap bcuz it only takes one person to kill you in less than 8 seconds

.... tanks are poop and everyone knows it. You are insaine, going tank is a handicap bcuz it only takes one person to kill you in less than 8 seconds

...And yet they keep running 20+/0 every match, one-shotting stuff with their Infinity Ammo guns.

Here's the thing.

All it takes to solo a tank is a 30k suit and a brain. Oops, there goes more than fifty times my suit's value in tank.

Infantry have nothing like that. Not at the high end of their game. Well, except for forges and remotes. But hey, they're AV weapons, so w/e.

See, my tank is valued at approximately two hours of my life.
Your protosuit is no more than fifteen minutes. And the skills you use to GET that protosuit make it easier for you to earn ISK in cheap gear.

Here's the thing.

All it takes to solo a tank is a 30k suit and a brain. Oops, there goes more than fifty times my suit's value in tank.

Infantry have nothing like that. Not at the high end of their game. Well, except for forges and remotes. But hey, they're AV weapons, so w/e.

See, my tank is valued at approximately two hours of my life.
Your protosuit is no more than fifteen minutes. And the skills you use to GET that protosuit make it easier for you to earn ISK in cheap gear.

Your protosuit is no more than fifteen minutes. And the skills you use to GET that protosuit make it easier for you to earn ISK in cheap gear.

It's funny how people without a single SP into Tanks can talk crap about them.

You do realize that for the three AV weapons, there are numerous Anti Personnel weapons? That Grenades are a threat to everyone, especially someone in Standard level attire? That your 'slow' is a scout's fast? That if we made cost of fitting a viable whine, we'd need to make the Logi's head and shoulders above everyone in everything and like it?

Tanks need to give up something to get something, and that means a tangible inmatch asset, not prefight fitting costs. You cannot have a SINGLE player suddenly gain immense power with no losses beyond 'can't cap no more'. No other vehicle can be manned effectively with one single player, and as such are balanced against being a one man force multiplier. A LAV or Dropship both need players to ferry around the map or they aren't doing their job, and both need other players aside from the pilot to operate their weapons systems, and you don't see LAV players cry for turret control. Tanks already HAVE something, they can be piloted and gunned from the same seat. THAT is your bonus. Don't like it? Ask to trade it in for something else and stop whining for more.

It's like being in a Gallente basic standard frame and getting hit by a freedom mass driver...except it costs a lot more 2,000,000 instead of 8,000.

what it feels like to face a tank in militia gear.....

it feels like facing a tank in militia gear except it costs players and they quit, the smart ones get proto av and become the great equalizers.

I jus let my pal, Djin Marauder try out my awsume missile tank and he lost it within 6 seconds by a single forgegun

I'm sorry, but you'll get no sympathy from me. Tanks take one man to use, so if one man in vastly greater metalevel, vastly multi-role crippling weaponry can kick your sorry tailpipe then good on them. Nothing against the tanks, but they have to gice something up to get something.

Lost 2 proto compressed rails yesterday :S

...And yet they keep running 20+/0 every match, one-shotting stuff with their Infinity Ammo guns, but hey i should be nerfed to carry less AV nades....

However, it was your choice to be a tank driver, it was you choice to call that tank in, it was your choice to drive that tank where it was killable and afterwards you blame others.

It's also funny to see how people who claim to have 10m+ SP into tanks cry about all those big bad AV guys who destroy them with their little Swarm Launchers.

what it feels like to face a tank in militia gear.....

it feels like facing a tank in militia gear except it costs players and they quit, the smart ones get proto av and become the great equalizers.

It's also funny to see how people who claim to have 10m+ SP into tanks cry about all those big bad AV guys who destroy them with their little Swarm Launchers.

Ah, another Zero that gets it :3

Tanks have many blessings they take as granted, such as the Infinity Ammo and the One Man Piloting, that shouldn't be considered as such.

Bads in this thread.

Swarms/Forges rinse tanks, the reason a Tank can go a couple of games without losing it is because Matchmaking puts them against **** players. I regularly run a proto forge against vehicles when I'm broke and can't bring in tanks, yesterday in a Skirmish I held three tanks on their redline, just me solo. When two other Seraphim turned up they were done. (3v3).

A proto swarm can deal massive amounts of damage, and can follow you around buildings, don't say they do not. I drive my LAV and even with its speed, it'll follow me around a corner.

The price of a tank is far too excessive, you say they need to be costly? I say **** you. I get in my LLAV and drive over you for 200k, my highest kill count is through using LLAVs, not tanks.

I'm not bringing tanks in anymore until 1.5 unless we're stomping and I just want to go "lolololnoav", but till 1.5 this game is **** for vehicles and the masses of scrubs that complain about Tanks just can't think strategically on how to combat them.

Just out of curiosity:what will all of you do when Wolf man buffs tanks and nerfs Av?

I'm sorry, but you'll get no sympathy from me. Tanks take one man to use, so if one man in vastly greater metalevel, vastly multi-role crippling weaponry can kick your sorry tailpipe then good on them. Nothing against the tanks, but they have to gice something up to get something.

Meta level VS at least 2 times the SP input and 4-8 times the isk... Yep should be solo'd. -_-

It takes way more SP and ISK train into, then to buy and fit a Tornado than it does to get into a Rifter, but in a straight-up fight the Rifter will win almost every time, unless the Tornado takes special precautions, because it's too fast for the Large guns to target it. Do people ***** about how broken that is, or do they take their humbling for being a dumbass?

It's like being in a Gallente basic standard frame and getting hit by a freedom mass driver...except it costs a lot more 2,000,000 instead of 8,000.

Thats how it should feel after all it is Black demon av. What did you expect. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgj3nZWtOfA this is how all you tank drivers act when you see av . The ending however is what happens for underestimating us

You do realize that for the three AV weapons, there are numerous Anti Personnel weapons? That Grenades are a threat to everyone, especially someone in Standard level attire? That your 'slow' is a scout's fast? That if we made cost of fitting a viable whine, we'd need to make the Logi's head and shoulders above everyone in everything and like it?

Tanks need to give up something to get something, and that means a tangible inmatch asset, not prefight fitting costs. You cannot have a SINGLE player suddenly gain immense power with no losses beyond 'can't cap no more'. No other vehicle can be manned effectively with one single player, and as such are balanced against being a one man force multiplier. A LAV or Dropship both need players to ferry around the map or they aren't doing their job, and both need other players aside from the pilot to operate their weapons systems, and you don't see LAV players cry for turret control. Tanks already HAVE something, they can be piloted and gunned from the same seat. THAT is your bonus. Don't like it? Ask to trade it in for something else and stop whining for more.

Right now I only AV when its convenient. (Lai Dai AVs instead of infantry nades). LAVs trying to run me over or a tank pinning me down in a complex.

If tanks are buffed and AV is nerfed I'll have to go dedicated AV or maybe start dumping points into tanks for anti-tank combat. I really don't want to join the ranks of the tanker class, but without a corp with dedicated AV squads, like many have suggested should be necessary, I'll have to find some way to stop the tanks. Otherwise I feel I can't be effective at anti infantry since, ARs from one side and tank shells from another is a lose lose situation.

In the end, I'll do what I always do when something is kicking my ass. Adapt...or die trying.

which is what is meant to be, if you want to kill us, then you should dedicate a good amount of your SP to kill us, we dedicated ALL of our SP, if you only dedicated a portion of your SP, the we need a respect and SP for tanking needs to be dropped down to 1/8 of what it is now.

I wouldn't mind a tank buff or a price of module decrease if it would allow the AV to stay near the same level. Tankers seem to fear the Lai Dais but I can never kill anything with 3 nades or less other than a mlt fit tank or a basic LAV. I'm really suprised AV nades that need to be tossed in close proximity to a tank seem to be more of an issue than forge guns with ******** range and damage and swarms.

Not me. Unless it's a PC battle, I recall the second something does more than 2000 damage and it isn't a rail gun. I refuse to let avaassholes make money off of my death.

They ... give ... up ... anti-infantry .... grenades? Which ... are ... good?

That was my thinking. I used to run the M1s, and plenty of times I wish I had them. For me, being able to defend myself against LAVs was more valuable though.

I wouldn't even mind having to be soley and AV player, except that you're so handicapped against infantry then what's it matter if they kill you or a tank kills you. Much like dual tanking, i.e. shields and armor, you lose something when you try to do both. You are master of neither.

vehicle players are forced to give up their fighting outside of vehicles in order to pilot them, why should you be an acception?

How about tankers shouldn't be punished because match making sucks and sagaris and suryas were being put against teams of mlt av and going 50:0 in chromosome.


Fix matchmaking. Buff tanks. Boom. problem solved.

How does it feel when your tank get killed by a Freedom Mass Driver?

How does it feel when your tank get killed by a Freedom Mass Driver?

I can see tanks getting a buff only if they require a full crew to operate. At least driver and main gunner should be separate.

I can see tanks getting a buff only if they require a full crew to operate. At least driver and main gunner should be separate.

That's not going to happen. Might be a specific tank that gets that... but not all tanks.

I can see tanks getting a buff only if they require a full crew to operate. At least driver and main gunner should be separate.

then tanks would no longer be used because nobody would skill into only driving the damn thing... iv told many people this with my Void Echo profile.

I understand not wanting to depend on others. I'm horrible at the social aspect and tend to run lone wolf myself. But, there needs to be some form of drawback other than ISK because at some point ISK will be irrelevant.

An LAV (once their bumpers are fixed) require a driver and a gunner. An Assault Dropship is a decent balance because the main gun is small. People jump into AV to take out tanks because they know that one person in a tank can go 40/0 unless they are stopped. Maybe give the tank driver a small gun?

How would you balance tanks so they aren't one man killing machines but also have increased survivability?

I understand not wanting to depend on others. I'm horrible at the social aspect and tend to run lone wolf myself. But, there needs to be some form of drawback other than ISK because at some point ISK will be irrelevant.

An LAV (once their bumpers are fixed) require a driver and a gunner. An Assault Dropship is a decent balance because the main gun is small. People jump into AV to take out tanks because they know that one person in a tank can go 40/0 unless they are stopped. Maybe give the tank driver a small gun?

How would you balance tanks so they aren't one man killing machines but also have increased survivability?

It's like being in a Gallente basic standard frame and getting hit by a freedom mass driver...except it costs a lot more 2,000,000 instead of 8,000.

where are these magical people going 40/0 against a good team? any time you see that, it's an accademy match, or a maxed out tank against clones fresh out of the academy.

against any good team, you're luck to get above 10

I understand not wanting to depend on others. I'm horrible at the social aspect and tend to run lone wolf myself. But, there needs to be some form of drawback other than ISK because at some point ISK will be irrelevant.

An LAV (once their bumpers are fixed) require a driver and a gunner. An Assault Dropship is a decent balance because the main gun is small. People jump into AV to take out tanks because they know that one person in a tank can go 40/0 unless they are stopped. Maybe give the tank driver a small gun?

How would you balance tanks so they aren't one man killing machines but also have increased survivability?

I'll watch the matches more closely to see how the tankers are doing. Running solo I tend to get placed with the side against the good teams and we get stomped. Maybe I'm mistaking the guys at the top for the tankers and they are not. But, I've been in a fair number of matches lately where there are two blaster tanks running the field together and just dominating. My advanced swarm does little to scare them off.

I do feel for you guys and your expensive gear. Hopefully Wolfman and Remnant have a plan for 1.5 to fix things.

yes you are mistaking the ones at the top of leaderboards, iv only gotten 20/0 one time since uprising began and the only time il go over 20/0 is when im put against academy graduates and im a squad with my friends. other than that, its an extreme rarity to go over 10/0 solo with a tank

Tank drivers sacrifice the ability to fight with an AR in order to pilot tanks, what else do you want, do you want us not only to not be able to fight outside, do you want us to be even more useless outside of tanks?

we get immense power from driving tanks we all know that, BUT in order for us to get that power, WE GIVE UP OUR ABILITY TO FIGHT OUTSIDE VEHICLES.

Until Pilot Dropsuits come out, that is a useless and pointless argument. I haven't got any points in destroyers, so my Battlecruisers should be more powerful. Is that really your argument? Your Dropsuit is completely unrelated to your vehicle piloting ability. If you decided to not get any footsoldier skills, or pilot with a shitfit suit, it is your own fault for overspecializing. The Titan pilots all know how to fly a decent frigate. And also, they don't bring their Titan into every little fight

Tank drivers sacrifice the ability to fight with an AR in order to pilot tanks, what else do you want, do you want us not only to not be able to fight outside, do you want us to be even more useless outside of tanks?

we get immense power from driving tanks we all know that, BUT in order for us to get that power, WE GIVE UP OUR ABILITY TO FIGHT OUTSIDE VEHICLES.

lol, really... you're complaining about not being able to fight outside of the tank? Well how the hell do you think AVers feel when we have to gimp ourselves against other infantry just to get a shot at taking out annoying vehicles terrorizing the team?

lol, really... you're complaining about not being able to fight outside of the tank? Well how the hell do you think AVers feel when we have to gimp ourselves against other infantry just to get a shot at taking out annoying vehicles terrorizing the team?

The only AV class that is somewhat effective against infantry while still having a lot of AV brute-force, is the heavy with a forge.

Otherwise:

Medium suit that has swarms for main, a sidearm, and AV nades = Going to get owned most of the time if they run across other infantry players. Or even worse, a logi with no sidearm decides to use swarms because nobody else on the team is doing AV. At that point their ONLY defense is locus nades, which means they have to dump off some AV so they arent completely helpless against infantry.


This, IMO, is one of the biggest annoyances with vehicles in general. I play this game to shoot infantry, it is a FPS after all. And I find it extremely annoying that I have to switch to AV gear just because some tanker, dropship, or LLAV decides to terrorize my team. Add insult to injury when those vehicle players have decent ground-pounders, making the AVers life a nightmare while the vehicles roam free and effortlessly slaughter ground troops who are not equipped with any decent AV.

This also means that each and every infantry player has to cross-train and waste SP into AV, otherwise they just have to take all the vehicle abuse, which is extremely frustrating.

You just want AV to do nothing to you

Or being anything else and being hit by an AR.
Or a dropship getting slammed by an RDV.
Or a charge sniper that can actually aim.
Basically every less than 1 second kill, yaknow?

in no way was I complaining about my inability to fight outside of the vehicle, I was stating a fact.. why is it that you never see anyone stating a fact unless its your fact. that ignorance and stubbornness.

FACT is that I sacrificed my ability to fight outside of vehicles in order to pilot my tanks... in no way am I complaining about this because it was my choice and im still standing by it today..

however your complaining that your crippled against infantry if you chose to fight vehicles, so the **** what, deal with it, if you want to fight vehicles, then you should sacrifice fighting against infantry, nothing is ever given without taking something away.. you are no acception.

im not complaining, never was, its called stating facts.

It may be a fact that you sacrificed your ability to play a dropsuit, but that is YOU and only YOU. By choosing to spend every point on gear you cannot afford to replace or gear that no cautious player would bring into every match you have indeed hobbled yourself into using standard and militia level dropsuit modules. But the problem with that logic is this: Does a player have to exclusively skill into either Vehicles or Dropsuit skills? When I went into Infantry Electronics, did Vehicle Electronics suddenly become inaccessible? No. You, by choosing to spend your points inefficiently, have doomed yourself to slogging through cheapo suits whenever you cannot bring an HAV onto the field, either by limited ISK or a judgement call. This is not, however, the fault of the other players or the DEVs; the blame rests squarely on you. So what was your point again? That my Swarm launcher skills crosstrain well for my Logistics role? Maybe, but not one of those skillpoints helps me drive a tank or pilot a dropship.

And I am ok with that.

So why aren't you?

I am going to do a commentary and post a video of your typical tanker at this current juncture in dust 514... the Rambo mentality that some have, how EASY it is to destroy these tanks, and for good reason which I will show and PROVE.

Great thing about doing Youtube videos.... the devs may not acknowledge that you are alive... but they do watch the videos when it comes to their game... lord knows if they had to RELY on the forums only...we would all be screwed.

il volunteer for a part of the video documentary, since im a tanker, I know how all these things work.. just message me in game Void Echo if your willing.

anything to get the public to actually see how tankers fight.

man.. no offense, but I could do a TANK montage of me just blowing up Rambo tank drivers that would be out of this world... even some of the posters on here.

I agree that there is a RIGHT and a WRONG way to drive a tank and being prepared, such as having a squad with you that takes out av.

The main problem I see is greediness, players wanting to get HIGH K/D like in chromo every round and it is not working.

Manus Peak...Chromo... easy to see tankers go 30-50/0 ratio..... far and few between now unless they roll as a squad.

You know why AV hasn't been "nerfed" yet?

Because CCP KNOWS that there will be a major disadvantage on the battlefield and it will turn into "world of tanks" once more, and player base will drop.

apparently you aren't ok with that because you keep arguing with it... seriously, learn the difference between complaining and explaining an maybe you wont be such a whiner anymore...

iv never complained about it, but what gives you the right to be an acception to this "give to get" theme that life goes by?

man.. no offense, but I could do a TANK montage of me just blowing up Rambo tank drivers that would be out of this world... even some of the posters on here.

I agree that there is a RIGHT and a WRONG way to drive a tank and being prepared, such as having a squad with you that takes out av.

The main problem I see is greediness, players wanting to get HIGH K/D like in chromo every round and it is not working.

Manus Peak...Chromo... easy to see tankers go 30-50/0 ratio..... far and few between now unless they roll as a squad.

You know why AV hasn't been "nerfed" yet?

Because CCP KNOWS that there will be a major disadvantage on the battlefield and it will turn into "world of tanks" once more, and player base will drop.

But I will msg you, I enjoy tankers on my team, I try to take care of them and destroy their av problems if I can

It's like being in a Gallente basic standard frame and getting hit by a freedom mass driver...except it costs a lot more 2,000,000 instead of 8,000.

Rule 2: always have infantry near you. So on any match where I have smart bunnies around me, things go wel

On a side note, I think if supply depots would not allow one to change fittings things would be way more balanced.

The hardest thing in pubs is finding infantry that understands that, and actively protects you.

Well, given all input from the AV guys, and the request from some for the actual armor pilots to weigh in, this seems like a good time to give my thoughts. Here's some background.

This is my vehicle alt, my main, Verdia, is a 5.5 mil sp Logistics, and I have 1.5 mil SP, all in armor. My fitting skills are tailored to Gallente Madrugar tanks, and I can fit STD turrets, and ADV equivalent damage reducers, reps and plates. So while I don't have the skills of Void (skills both ways, he's stomped me before, and has my respect), I do have enough to field a fast, relatively durable anti-personnel blaster tank.

I'm also learning my maps well, and know the basics of tank driving. Rule 1: always have an escape route, and Rule 2: always have infantry near you. So on any match where I have smart bunnies around me, things go well, I lock down whole sections of the map, and typically go about 7-10/0, so pretty much on par for someone in a standard tank.

However, there are some problems I run into with the AV situation currently. Here are my thoughts on the current weapons:

Forge Guns:
Wonderful little anti-vehicle weapons, which double as a stunningly effective mid-range one-shotter on infantry. These things are pretty well balanced at the moment. Yes, the damage is pretty stupid (2k+ for PROs), but they take a while to charge, and are line-of-sight only, so if you stay exposed to a Heavy, you deserve the ass that will get handed to you. They also require a sizable investment in SP in order to get into the good ones, and are a high enough cost that people don't risk them stupidly.

AV Grenades:
Great for killing murdertaxis, and can do a number on tanks if someone lets them get close enough. Hive+AV grenade=win....but a good tanker should splatter any infantry that gets that close, or run away, so really, if you die to these in a tank, you made some bad decisions. See Rule #1, and talk to me when it sinks in.

Swarm Launchers:
Frak me. These things are ridiculous, and are a tanker's worst enemy. The damage at PRO level exceeds that of PRO forge guns, requires far less SP, far less fitting costs, and is free of the usual limitations of other AV weapons. The biggest advantage is that you just need a quick peek at the target to get a lock, and don't have to be anywhere close, or anywhere near line of sight for these things to hit. While I'm sure that the PRO Swarms were intended to counter PRO tanks, we don't have them, and they are stupidly overpowered. I know this from my AV alt, who can routinely kill Militia tanks with a CBR7 before the RDV even drops them to the ground, and STD tanks in one magazine of 4 shots, if they hold stillish for 8 seconds.

The Ishukone Assault FG only requires 3 - 4 shots to kill the average tank. It's also the most favored FG. Currently FG's are being used as AI insta-kill weapons as well. It takes one guy to shut down the entire map from vehicles. Other than maybe fast LAV's.

AV grenades. Available to everyone and takes nothing away from them for becoming an AV role. Takes 3 to kill the average mady and maybe 4 for a gunnlogi.

Swarm Launchers:
Completely useless against DS's after the first hit unless the DS pilot decides to stay. Unlike 90% of all others. Or the DS is just beginning take off.
(Math time :D)
6 x 330 = 1980
Damage Bonuses:
Armor- 1980 + 20% = 2376
Shield- 1980 - 20% = 1584
Madrugar average HP- 6000
Gunnlogi average HP- 5000
2376/6000 = 39% percent per hit
1584/5000 = 31% percent per hit
That's their effectiveness against the average good tanker. Please keep in mind SL skill bonuses and damage mods are not included. Also neither are HAV HPregen/ps and resistance mods. When those are added the madrugar dpph was around 32-31% and the gunnlogi was around 28-30%.

The only thing that gets under my skin is the fact that it only takes one AVer with moderate gear to trash out my 500k ISK tank.

That should be rule #1. Tankers want to pretend like they're invulnerable death machines, but tanks are SUPPORT VEHICLES. They're ment to support infantry. And when they lose the infantry they're supporting, they're going to get wrecked.

You know what the easiest way to stop someone with AV from killing you is? Have the infantry members around you take him out.

it needs to be redisigned; the balance i mean. tanks should ALWAYS lose to Av TEAMs in urban environments, but never lose in open areas. in big open areas, infantry should support tanks, and vise-versa.

A 500k isk tank is trash, especially in a game with such poor match making. You're going up against adv and proto AV in a militia level tank. Play against people at your own fitting level and it will be a different story; a story where it takes people coordinating together to beat you.

Or, alternatively, work with a squad that keeps people around your tank who work to pick off people bringing AV onto the field.

There is your problem right there. You're looking for competent support in pub matches, which is really, really rare.

The lack of competent tank support in pub matches is balanced by the fact that the people shooting your tank will only rarely have people working with them to make sure you blow up. Of course, every once in a while you'll run into a corp with decent AVers who will work together to take you out, and it works. Because you don't have people working with you to keep you safe.

On a side note, I think if supply depots would not allow one to change fittings things would be way more balanced.

On a side note, I think if supply depots would not allow one to change fittings things would be way more balanced.