in no way was I complaining about my inability to fight outside of the vehicle, I was stating a fact.. why is it that you never see anyone stating a fact unless its your fact. that ignorance and stubbornness.

FACT is that I sacrificed my ability to fight outside of vehicles in order to pilot my tanks... in no way am I complaining about this because it was my choice and im still standing by it today..

however your complaining that your crippled against infantry if you chose to fight vehicles, so the **** what, deal with it, if you want to fight vehicles, then you should sacrifice fighting against infantry, nothing is ever given without taking something away.. you are no acception.

im not complaining, never was, its called stating facts.

It may be a fact that you sacrificed your ability to play a dropsuit, but that is YOU and only YOU. By choosing to spend every point on gear you cannot afford to replace or gear that no cautious player would bring into every match you have indeed hobbled yourself into using standard and militia level dropsuit modules. But the problem with that logic is this: Does a player have to exclusively skill into either Vehicles or Dropsuit skills? When I went into Infantry Electronics, did Vehicle Electronics suddenly become inaccessible? No. You, by choosing to spend your points inefficiently, have doomed yourself to slogging through cheapo suits whenever you cannot bring an HAV onto the field, either by limited ISK or a judgement call. This is not, however, the fault of the other players or the DEVs; the blame rests squarely on you. So what was your point again? That my Swarm launcher skills crosstrain well for my Logistics role? Maybe, but not one of those skillpoints helps me drive a tank or pilot a dropship.

And I am ok with that.

So why aren't you?

I am going to do a commentary and post a video of your typical tanker at this current juncture in dust 514... the Rambo mentality that some have, how EASY it is to destroy these tanks, and for good reason which I will show and PROVE.

Great thing about doing Youtube videos.... the devs may not acknowledge that you are alive... but they do watch the videos when it comes to their game... lord knows if they had to RELY on the forums only...we would all be screwed.

il volunteer for a part of the video documentary, since im a tanker, I know how all these things work.. just message me in game Void Echo if your willing.

anything to get the public to actually see how tankers fight.

man.. no offense, but I could do a TANK montage of me just blowing up Rambo tank drivers that would be out of this world... even some of the posters on here.

I agree that there is a RIGHT and a WRONG way to drive a tank and being prepared, such as having a squad with you that takes out av.

The main problem I see is greediness, players wanting to get HIGH K/D like in chromo every round and it is not working.

Manus Peak...Chromo... easy to see tankers go 30-50/0 ratio..... far and few between now unless they roll as a squad.

You know why AV hasn't been "nerfed" yet?

Because CCP KNOWS that there will be a major disadvantage on the battlefield and it will turn into "world of tanks" once more, and player base will drop.

apparently you aren't ok with that because you keep arguing with it... seriously, learn the difference between complaining and explaining an maybe you wont be such a whiner anymore...

iv never complained about it, but what gives you the right to be an acception to this "give to get" theme that life goes by?

man.. no offense, but I could do a TANK montage of me just blowing up Rambo tank drivers that would be out of this world... even some of the posters on here.

I agree that there is a RIGHT and a WRONG way to drive a tank and being prepared, such as having a squad with you that takes out av.

The main problem I see is greediness, players wanting to get HIGH K/D like in chromo every round and it is not working.

Manus Peak...Chromo... easy to see tankers go 30-50/0 ratio..... far and few between now unless they roll as a squad.

You know why AV hasn't been "nerfed" yet?

Because CCP KNOWS that there will be a major disadvantage on the battlefield and it will turn into "world of tanks" once more, and player base will drop.

But I will msg you, I enjoy tankers on my team, I try to take care of them and destroy their av problems if I can

It's like being in a Gallente basic standard frame and getting hit by a freedom mass driver...except it costs a lot more 2,000,000 instead of 8,000.

Rule 2: always have infantry near you. So on any match where I have smart bunnies around me, things go wel

On a side note, I think if supply depots would not allow one to change fittings things would be way more balanced.

The hardest thing in pubs is finding infantry that understands that, and actively protects you.

Well, given all input from the AV guys, and the request from some for the actual armor pilots to weigh in, this seems like a good time to give my thoughts. Here's some background.

This is my vehicle alt, my main, Verdia, is a 5.5 mil sp Logistics, and I have 1.5 mil SP, all in armor. My fitting skills are tailored to Gallente Madrugar tanks, and I can fit STD turrets, and ADV equivalent damage reducers, reps and plates. So while I don't have the skills of Void (skills both ways, he's stomped me before, and has my respect), I do have enough to field a fast, relatively durable anti-personnel blaster tank.

I'm also learning my maps well, and know the basics of tank driving. Rule 1: always have an escape route, and Rule 2: always have infantry near you. So on any match where I have smart bunnies around me, things go well, I lock down whole sections of the map, and typically go about 7-10/0, so pretty much on par for someone in a standard tank.

However, there are some problems I run into with the AV situation currently. Here are my thoughts on the current weapons:

Forge Guns:
Wonderful little anti-vehicle weapons, which double as a stunningly effective mid-range one-shotter on infantry. These things are pretty well balanced at the moment. Yes, the damage is pretty stupid (2k+ for PROs), but they take a while to charge, and are line-of-sight only, so if you stay exposed to a Heavy, you deserve the ass that will get handed to you. They also require a sizable investment in SP in order to get into the good ones, and are a high enough cost that people don't risk them stupidly.

AV Grenades:
Great for killing murdertaxis, and can do a number on tanks if someone lets them get close enough. Hive+AV grenade=win....but a good tanker should splatter any infantry that gets that close, or run away, so really, if you die to these in a tank, you made some bad decisions. See Rule #1, and talk to me when it sinks in.

Swarm Launchers:
Frak me. These things are ridiculous, and are a tanker's worst enemy. The damage at PRO level exceeds that of PRO forge guns, requires far less SP, far less fitting costs, and is free of the usual limitations of other AV weapons. The biggest advantage is that you just need a quick peek at the target to get a lock, and don't have to be anywhere close, or anywhere near line of sight for these things to hit. While I'm sure that the PRO Swarms were intended to counter PRO tanks, we don't have them, and they are stupidly overpowered. I know this from my AV alt, who can routinely kill Militia tanks with a CBR7 before the RDV even drops them to the ground, and STD tanks in one magazine of 4 shots, if they hold stillish for 8 seconds.

The Ishukone Assault FG only requires 3 - 4 shots to kill the average tank. It's also the most favored FG. Currently FG's are being used as AI insta-kill weapons as well. It takes one guy to shut down the entire map from vehicles. Other than maybe fast LAV's.

AV grenades. Available to everyone and takes nothing away from them for becoming an AV role. Takes 3 to kill the average mady and maybe 4 for a gunnlogi.

Swarm Launchers:
Completely useless against DS's after the first hit unless the DS pilot decides to stay. Unlike 90% of all others. Or the DS is just beginning take off.
(Math time :D)
6 x 330 = 1980
Damage Bonuses:
Armor- 1980 + 20% = 2376
Shield- 1980 - 20% = 1584
Madrugar average HP- 6000
Gunnlogi average HP- 5000
2376/6000 = 39% percent per hit
1584/5000 = 31% percent per hit
That's their effectiveness against the average good tanker. Please keep in mind SL skill bonuses and damage mods are not included. Also neither are HAV HPregen/ps and resistance mods. When those are added the madrugar dpph was around 32-31% and the gunnlogi was around 28-30%.

The only thing that gets under my skin is the fact that it only takes one AVer with moderate gear to trash out my 500k ISK tank.

That should be rule #1. Tankers want to pretend like they're invulnerable death machines, but tanks are SUPPORT VEHICLES. They're ment to support infantry. And when they lose the infantry they're supporting, they're going to get wrecked.

You know what the easiest way to stop someone with AV from killing you is? Have the infantry members around you take him out.

it needs to be redisigned; the balance i mean. tanks should ALWAYS lose to Av TEAMs in urban environments, but never lose in open areas. in big open areas, infantry should support tanks, and vise-versa.

A 500k isk tank is trash, especially in a game with such poor match making. You're going up against adv and proto AV in a militia level tank. Play against people at your own fitting level and it will be a different story; a story where it takes people coordinating together to beat you.

Or, alternatively, work with a squad that keeps people around your tank who work to pick off people bringing AV onto the field.

There is your problem right there. You're looking for competent support in pub matches, which is really, really rare.

The lack of competent tank support in pub matches is balanced by the fact that the people shooting your tank will only rarely have people working with them to make sure you blow up. Of course, every once in a while you'll run into a corp with decent AVers who will work together to take you out, and it works. Because you don't have people working with you to keep you safe.

On a side note, I think if supply depots would not allow one to change fittings things would be way more balanced.