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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1068
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Posted - 2013.08.14 20:16:00 -
[91] - Quote
Argon Gas wrote:
If you do it right, I have no problem with you. I have a problem with the people that don't, the people that use this suit as a better assault.
That I agree with. But its still to early to call Logis OP, specially since 1.4 is dropsuit balancing and we only know a small bit we don't know if they are going to add any more changes. Also this build is a very extreme case, I personally would never roll your suggested suit because I like high repairs (17.50) and fast speed.
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Cosgar
ParagonX
4198
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Posted - 2013.08.14 20:19:00 -
[92] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:I wonder when the Assault suits are gonna get better at assauling then the logies.... I've been wondering the same thing. If you can't work something out with that crazy shield regen bonus and the ability to use a sidearm, something's wrong. Bigger buffer Gëá better. |
Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz
312
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 20:20:00 -
[93] - Quote
This must be a joke. The Gal Logi has the worst survivability of all Logibros because it's slow, it has no choice but to armor tank(you can't Dual tank with 3 highs unless you're amarr), and doesn't have a side arm to compensate. |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
677
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 20:22:00 -
[94] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Huh, must be my turn to shine then. Let me ask you something, did you do the math with PG/CPU? Because if I am not mistaken that suit has no room for equipment, a weapon above basic, or high slot modules. Shut up with that 'logic' you dirty OP Gal Logi! You should have known better than to spec into an OP suit. It's your turn now bitches!!!
Muhahahahaa!!!!!
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Robocop Junior
The Surrogates Of War
187
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Posted - 2013.08.14 20:24:00 -
[95] - Quote
We weren't OP before this? Felt like it:D |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1068
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 20:24:00 -
[96] - Quote
Rogatien Merc wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Huh, must be my turn to shine then. Let me ask you something, did you do the math with PG/CPU? Because if I am not mistaken that suit has no room for equipment, a weapon above basic, or high slot modules. Shut up with that 'logic' you dirty OP Gal Logi! You should have known better than to spec into an OP suit. It's your turn now bitches!!! Muhahahahaa!!!!!
But I specced into it for the equipment slots and the repair :( |
Argon Gas
Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic
27
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Posted - 2013.08.14 20:28:00 -
[97] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:I wonder when the Assault suits are gonna get better at assauling then the logies.... I've been wondering the same thing. If you can't work something out with that crazy shield regen bonus and the ability to use a sidearm, something's wrong. Bigger buffer Gëá better. Assaults who can aim rarely use their sidearm. Gallente have no use for this shield regen. Try again. |
Robocop Junior
The Surrogates Of War
188
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 20:35:00 -
[98] - Quote
So assaults that use their sidearm can't aim. What a slap in the face. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4199
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 20:35:00 -
[99] - Quote
Argon Gas wrote:Cosgar wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:I wonder when the Assault suits are gonna get better at assauling then the logies.... I've been wondering the same thing. If you can't work something out with that crazy shield regen bonus and the ability to use a sidearm, something's wrong. Bigger buffer Gëá better. Assaults who can aim rarely use their sidearm. Gallente have no use for this shield regen. Try again. Sidearms have nothing to do with aim, they're primarily better in CQC or complement weapons that aren't effective at short range. Laser/SMG is a pretty nasty combo. The Gallente bonus is a shield vs armor issue. There's a good topic discussing it if you haven't yet. The overlooked issue is that assault have more flat out DPS because they have access to a sidearm. |
Argon Gas
Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic
27
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 20:43:00 -
[100] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Argon Gas wrote:Cosgar wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:I wonder when the Assault suits are gonna get better at assauling then the logies.... I've been wondering the same thing. If you can't work something out with that crazy shield regen bonus and the ability to use a sidearm, something's wrong. Bigger buffer Gëá better. Assaults who can aim rarely use their sidearm. Gallente have no use for this shield regen. Try again. Sidearms have nothing to do with aim, they're primarily better in CQC or complement weapons that aren't effective at short range. Laser/SMG is a pretty nasty combo. The Gallente bonus is a shield vs armor issue. There's a good topic discussing it if you haven't yet. The overlooked issue is that assault have more flat out DPS because they have access to a sidearm. No we don't. If we could fire the primary and secondary at the same time? Yes. But can we? No. So DPS is the same. |
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Cosgar
ParagonX
4202
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Posted - 2013.08.14 20:47:00 -
[101] - Quote
Argon Gas wrote:Cosgar wrote:Argon Gas wrote:Cosgar wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:I wonder when the Assault suits are gonna get better at assauling then the logies.... I've been wondering the same thing. If you can't work something out with that crazy shield regen bonus and the ability to use a sidearm, something's wrong. Bigger buffer Gëá better. Assaults who can aim rarely use their sidearm. Gallente have no use for this shield regen. Try again. Sidearms have nothing to do with aim, they're primarily better in CQC or complement weapons that aren't effective at short range. Laser/SMG is a pretty nasty combo. The Gallente bonus is a shield vs armor issue. There's a good topic discussing it if you haven't yet. The overlooked issue is that assault have more flat out DPS because they have access to a sidearm. No we don't. If we could fire the primary and secondary at the same time? Yes. But can we? No. So DPS is the same. It's still 2 weapons that you can switch to on the fly. 1 + 1 = 2 Logis (Except the Amarr) only get one weapon. 1 + 0 = 1 That second weapon means more DPS, whether you want to admit it or not. Hell, if you have good aim, the breach SP beats the AR if you can land some headshots. Even the damn Ishukone out damages the Duvolle and Boundless HMG. |
Argon Gas
Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic
27
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Posted - 2013.08.14 20:51:00 -
[102] - Quote
Cosgar wrote: It's still 2 weapons that you can switch to on the fly. 1 + 1 = 2 Logis (Except the Amarr) only get one weapon. 1 + 0 = 1 That second weapon means more DPS, whether you want to admit it or not. Hell, if you have good aim, the breach SP beats the AR if you can land some headshots. Even the damn Ishukone out damages the Duvolle and Boundless HMG.
If you can consistantly land headshots.
Also, it's not a 2 if we can't use them at the same time. It's 1 + 1. |
Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz
313
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 20:52:00 -
[103] - Quote
Argon Gas wrote:Cosgar wrote:Argon Gas wrote:Cosgar wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:I wonder when the Assault suits are gonna get better at assauling then the logies.... I've been wondering the same thing. If you can't work something out with that crazy shield regen bonus and the ability to use a sidearm, something's wrong. Bigger buffer Gëá better. Assaults who can aim rarely use their sidearm. Gallente have no use for this shield regen. Try again. Sidearms have nothing to do with aim, they're primarily better in CQC or complement weapons that aren't effective at short range. Laser/SMG is a pretty nasty combo. The Gallente bonus is a shield vs armor issue. There's a good topic discussing it if you haven't yet. The overlooked issue is that assault have more flat out DPS because they have access to a sidearm. No we don't. If we could fire the primary and secondary at the same time? Yes. But can we? No. So DPS is the same.
So a Gal Logi with a Laser Rifle in CQC has more DPS than someone with a Side Arm? So MD users getting 6/8 shots before the one of the slowest reload times in the game doesn't hurt DPS? SR reaches overheat and your opponent sees you don't have a side-arm so they are just going to let you cool down first? Even 60 bullets from an AR can run out in quite alot of situations. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4202
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 20:54:00 -
[104] - Quote
Argon Gas wrote:Cosgar wrote: It's still 2 weapons that you can switch to on the fly. 1 + 1 = 2 Logis (Except the Amarr) only get one weapon. 1 + 0 = 1 That second weapon means more DPS, whether you want to admit it or not. Hell, if you have good aim, the breach SP beats the AR if you can land some headshots. Even the damn Ishukone out damages the Duvolle and Boundless HMG.
If you can consistantly land headshots. Also, it's not a 2 if we can't use them at the same time. It's 1 + 1. Now you're just arguing semantics. If sidearms are so unimportant why don't all logis have them? |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
678
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 20:54:00 -
[105] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Rogatien Merc wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Huh, must be my turn to shine then. Let me ask you something, did you do the math with PG/CPU? Because if I am not mistaken that suit has no room for equipment, a weapon above basic, or high slot modules. Shut up with that 'logic' you dirty OP Gal Logi! You should have known better than to spec into an OP suit. It's your turn now bitches!!! Muhahahahaa!!!!! But I specced into it for the equipment slots and the repair :( I don't care if YOU are using the suit correctly. Others are using it as a super assault. Errrr... will be.
NERF IT!!!!!!!
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Argon Gas
Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic
27
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 20:56:00 -
[106] - Quote
Justin Tymes wrote: So a Gal Logi with a Laser Rifle in CQC has more DPS than someone with a Side Arm? So MD users getting 6/8 shots before the one of the slowest reload times in the game doesn't hurt DPS? SR reaches overheat and your opponent sees you don't have a side-arm so they are just going to let you cool down first? Even 60 bullets from an AR can run out in quite alot of situations.
You can't switch weapons when overheated anyway. An AR has a pretty quick reload.
And that's still not DPS, that's extra DAMAGE. DAMAGE PER SECOND =/= DAMAGE
For me with the AR, I use a sidearm maybe once every 30 kills. So tell me, why shouldn't I use a logi?
Cosgar wrote:Argon Gas wrote:Cosgar wrote: It's still 2 weapons that you can switch to on the fly. 1 + 1 = 2 Logis (Except the Amarr) only get one weapon. 1 + 0 = 1 That second weapon means more DPS, whether you want to admit it or not. Hell, if you have good aim, the breach SP beats the AR if you can land some headshots. Even the damn Ishukone out damages the Duvolle and Boundless HMG.
If you can consistantly land headshots. Also, it's not a 2 if we can't use them at the same time. It's 1 + 1. Now you're just arguing semantics. If sidearms are so unimportant why don't all logis have them?
Because CCP THINKS they're important. We all know how smart they are.
Tell me, why should you get extra low/high slots in addition to equipment? |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4202
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 20:58:00 -
[107] - Quote
Argon Gas wrote:Justin Tymes wrote: So a Gal Logi with a Laser Rifle in CQC has more DPS than someone with a Side Arm? So MD users getting 6/8 shots before the one of the slowest reload times in the game doesn't hurt DPS? SR reaches overheat and your opponent sees you don't have a side-arm so they are just going to let you cool down first? Even 60 bullets from an AR can run out in quite alot of situations.
You can't switch weapons when overheated anyway. An AR has a pretty quick reload. And that's still not DPS, that's extra DAMAGE. DAMAGE PER SECOND =/= DAMAGE For me with the AR, I use a sidearm maybe once every 30 kills. So tell me, why shouldn't I use a logi? Cosgar wrote:Argon Gas wrote:Cosgar wrote: It's still 2 weapons that you can switch to on the fly. 1 + 1 = 2 Logis (Except the Amarr) only get one weapon. 1 + 0 = 1 That second weapon means more DPS, whether you want to admit it or not. Hell, if you have good aim, the breach SP beats the AR if you can land some headshots. Even the damn Ishukone out damages the Duvolle and Boundless HMG.
If you can consistantly land headshots. Also, it's not a 2 if we can't use them at the same time. It's 1 + 1. Now you're just arguing semantics. If sidearms are so unimportant why don't all logis have them? Because CCP THINKS they're important. We all know how smart they are. Tell me, why should you get extra low/high slots in addition to equipment? Because logi suits trade their base stats and sidearm for them. Same reason why heavies don't have an equipment slot and why scouts are (too) squishy but fast. It's called having a tradeoff. CCP thought it was important. |
Argon Gas
Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic
27
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 21:02:00 -
[108] - Quote
Cosgar wrote: Because logi suits trade their base stats and sidearm for them. Same reason why heavies don't have an equipment slot and why scouts are (too) squishy but fast. It's called having a tradeoff. CCP thought it was important.
Is +3 equipment, which turns you into 4 assaults equipment wise not worth it alone? I don't see the need for you to have an extra high and low slot. You are NOT supposed to be competitive in a fire fight. You can add damage to a firefight, but assaults are supposed to have the advantage. I'm not asking for the removal of light weapons, I'm asking for you to have the same high/low slot configuration as assaults. Only Logi assaults need it, not support logis. |
XxArrowxX
Northwind Alliance Dark Taboo
6
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 21:04:00 -
[109] - Quote
DJINN Marauder wrote:why would you want to go armor when flux massdriver is the newthing?
why wouldyou go shield if they can flux and one two shot ur dead lol there no way out buddy we all die from the MD some how.....
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Cosgar
ParagonX
4203
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 21:09:00 -
[110] - Quote
Argon Gas wrote:Cosgar wrote: Because logi suits trade their base stats and sidearm for them. Same reason why heavies don't have an equipment slot and why scouts are (too) squishy but fast. It's called having a tradeoff. CCP thought it was important.
Is +3 equipment, which turns you into 4 assaults equipment wise not worth it alone? I don't see the need for you to have an extra high and low slot. You are NOT supposed to be competitive in a fire fight. You can add damage to a firefight, but assaults are supposed to have the advantage. I'm not asking for the removal of light weapons, I'm asking for you to have the same high/low slot configuration as assaults. Only Logi assaults need it, not support logis. A logi suit is nothing but a medium suit with different rolled stats. There are no assault logis nor are there support logis, we're all ****ing logis, get that through you head. Also, it's a goddamned FPS. The day New Eden has a Geneva Convention, is the day logis can stop carrying weapons. Stop looking for free kills. |
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True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1256
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 21:12:00 -
[111] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Argon Gas wrote:Cosgar wrote: Because logi suits trade their base stats and sidearm for them. Same reason why heavies don't have an equipment slot and why scouts are (too) squishy but fast. It's called having a tradeoff. CCP thought it was important.
Is +3 equipment, which turns you into 4 assaults equipment wise not worth it alone? I don't see the need for you to have an extra high and low slot. You are NOT supposed to be competitive in a fire fight. You can add damage to a firefight, but assaults are supposed to have the advantage. I'm not asking for the removal of light weapons, I'm asking for you to have the same high/low slot configuration as assaults. Only Logi assaults need it, not support logis. A logi suit is nothing but a medium suit with different rolled stats. There are no assault logis nor are there support logis, we're all ****ing logis, get that through you head. Also, it's a goddamned FPS. The day New Eden has a Geneva Convention, is the day logis can stop carrying weapons. Stop looking for free kills.
I would see CCP change the logi suit by removing high and low slots and replacing the lost slots with medium slots which cover modules that give bonuses to support items, equipment items, EWAR, etc. Then Logis lose their massive buffers, can keep their PRO weapons, and be used for the role they were intended. |
Robocop Junior
The Surrogates Of War
189
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 21:12:00 -
[112] - Quote
XxArrowxX wrote:DJINN Marauder wrote:why would you want to go armor when flux massdriver is the newthing? why wouldyou go shield if they can flux and one two shot ur dead lol there no way out buddy we all die from the MD some how.....
haha feels so good when I see that grenade coming only to find out its a flux OMG my 99 shield nooooooo thank heavens! |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4204
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 21:20:00 -
[113] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
I would see CCP change the logi suit by removing high and low slots and replacing the lost slots with medium slots which cover modules that give bonuses to support items, equipment items, EWAR, etc. Then Logis lose their massive buffers, can keep their PRO weapons, and be used for the role they were intended.
That'll just give people something more to complain about. See all the MD QQ? Imagine how butthurt people will be about webifiers and scramblers. |
Argon Gas
Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic
27
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Posted - 2013.08.14 21:24:00 -
[114] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:True Adamance wrote:
I would see CCP change the logi suit by removing high and low slots and replacing the lost slots with medium slots which cover modules that give bonuses to support items, equipment items, EWAR, etc. Then Logis lose their massive buffers, can keep their PRO weapons, and be used for the role they were intended.
That'll just give people something more to complain about. See all the MD QQ? Imagine how butthurt people will be about webifiers and scramblers. I'll be fine with that. Support can happen in many ways. If you slow down my enemies, that's support. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4204
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 21:27:00 -
[115] - Quote
Argon Gas wrote:Cosgar wrote:True Adamance wrote:
I would see CCP change the logi suit by removing high and low slots and replacing the lost slots with medium slots which cover modules that give bonuses to support items, equipment items, EWAR, etc. Then Logis lose their massive buffers, can keep their PRO weapons, and be used for the role they were intended.
That'll just give people something more to complain about. See all the MD QQ? Imagine how butthurt people will be about webifiers and scramblers. I'll be fine with that. Support can happen in many ways. If you slow down my enemies, that's support. Wait until you get slowed. You're already crying about something as insignificant as who has the biggest buffer and the most slots. |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
679
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 21:29:00 -
[116] - Quote
@Argon Gas & every other person on the forums who has ever not understood DPS.
... DPS = damage per second. So imagine if you will...
Each number between slashes is hypothetical damage done in one second. the __ is a second where no damage is done. In Scenario 1, below, there are 3x seconds of reload and the enemy is killed after 10 seconds after the first few rounds from the second clip.
Scenario 1: 10 / 10 / 10 / 10 / 10 / 10 / __ / __ / __ / 10 //// END TARGET IS DEAD.
The engagement is 10s long, with 70 damage done, or 7dps.
In scenario 2, below, the engagement ends after 9 seconds because the individual was able to switch to a high-level sidearm in one second rather than re-loading in 3.
Scenario 2: 10 / 10 / 10 / 10 / 10 / 10 / __ / 8 / 8 //// END TARGET IS DEAD.
The engagement is 9 seconds long with 78 damage done, or 8.66 dps.
... these hypothetical numbers demonstrate, conceptually, how assaults have greater DPS than logis due to usage of sidearms.
Your welcome. Until next time, Bill Nye, signing off.
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Medic 1879
Forsaken Immortals Top Men.
878
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 21:29:00 -
[117] - Quote
True Adamance wrote: I would see CCP change the logi suit by removing high and low slots and replacing the lost slots with medium slots which cover modules that give bonuses to support items, equipment items, EWAR, etc. Then Logis lose their massive buffers, can keep their PRO weapons, and be used for the role they were intended.
That would be a great idea make it so logi's have no ability to tank and see how often you get revived or repaired in a match when the logi doing this gets one shotted by pretty much anything they will either follow you like a brave logi and die long before they can be useful. Or they will just run up drop super hives and nanos about the place then go hide. |
Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
497
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 21:31:00 -
[118] - Quote
Are you the same guy that started the "Flaylock is OP!!!!" threads after they released that video, a month before it was even in-game? |
Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz
314
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 21:39:00 -
[119] - Quote
Argon Gas wrote:Justin Tymes wrote: So a Gal Logi with a Laser Rifle in CQC has more DPS than someone with a Side Arm? So MD users getting 6/8 shots before the one of the slowest reload times in the game doesn't hurt DPS? SR reaches overheat and your opponent sees you don't have a side-arm so they are just going to let you cool down first? Even 60 bullets from an AR can run out in quite alot of situations.
You can't switch weapons when overheated anyway. An AR has a pretty quick reload. And that's still not DPS, that's extra DAMAGE. DAMAGE PER SECOND =/= DAMAGE For me with the AR, I use a sidearm maybe once every 30 kills. So tell me, why shouldn't I use a logi? Cosgar wrote:Argon Gas wrote:Cosgar wrote: It's still 2 weapons that you can switch to on the fly. 1 + 1 = 2 Logis (Except the Amarr) only get one weapon. 1 + 0 = 1 That second weapon means more DPS, whether you want to admit it or not. Hell, if you have good aim, the breach SP beats the AR if you can land some headshots. Even the damn Ishukone out damages the Duvolle and Boundless HMG.
If you can consistantly land headshots. Also, it's not a 2 if we can't use them at the same time. It's 1 + 1. Now you're just arguing semantics. If sidearms are so unimportant why don't all logis have them? Because CCP THINKS they're important. We all know how smart they are. Tell me, why should you get extra low/high slots in addition to equipment?
TO be able to fit that EQ. I'm still using CPU and PG Upgrades because of the lack of CPU/PG now, so that really leaves 3 slots that have to compete with Amour Repairs, Armor Plates, and Stamina upgrade because the plates slow you down too much to keep up with the squad without it. |
BGoat
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
31
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 21:41:00 -
[120] - Quote
Argon Gas wrote:Cosgar wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:I wonder when the Assault suits are gonna get better at assauling then the logies.... I've been wondering the same thing. If you can't work something out with that crazy shield regen bonus and the ability to use a sidearm, something's wrong. Bigger buffer Gëá better. Assaults who can aim rarely use their sidearm. Gallente have no use for this shield regen. Try again.
I beg to differ, I can aim just fine and I end up using my sidearm quite often. Everyone always talks about using Logi suits for an Assault role, but I just have to laugh at that. No self-respecting Assault player would run without a sidearm (and the Amarr Logi is the only one that gets a sidearm IIRC).
I love it when I'm battling a Cal-logi and we both exhaust our clip at the same time. I immediately switch to my SMG to finish them off. What are they doing? Oh yeah, they are strafing and jumping around like an idiot and NOT shooting me because they have no sidearm and have to reload. And now they are dead In the past, this was also the time at which a Cal-logi may throw a panic fused locus grenade at my feet, but now that those things have been nerfed into oblivion, that's not even an option.
Being an Assault player is about having firepower. If you need ridiculous amounts of HP to play the Assault role and you are willing to give up your sidearm for it, you are doing something wrong. |
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