DUST Search - Addressing Building-Rooftop Warfare

Bojo The Mighty wrote:

TheEnd762 wrote:

You mean like how Snipers are currently outgunned by pretty much anyone else, unless they're on a roof, along the edges of the map, or behind the redline? Our scout suits can be shredded in one short burst from an AR and our rifles are useless inside 100m or so. If you get to beg for some stupid mechanic to allow you to easily engage a sniper in his element, where's the mechanic for sniper to easily engage grunts down on the field, or shotgunners and nova knifers in CQC? AND WITHOUT HAVING TO CHANGE OUR WEAPON/SUIT/EQIUIPMENT OR USE TEAMWORK, SINCE THAT'S OUT OF THE QUESTION?

Snipers are not supposed to be untouchable, yet you ask to keep it like that. Snipers are not outgunned by other guns, they are under-ranged by other guns. Sniping does not require teamwork so why should killing a sniper require teamwork.

Your assumption is that all snipers have to be in Redzones or on top of buildings where people can not reach them. That's just scaredy-pus gameplay, going only where other people won't hurt you Roll

Also, it's a ladder for god's sake! It's not the end of the world! For all intents and purposes this would save snipers and forges a lot of money in risking dropships.

The mechanic that allows snipers to easily engage grunts is already there, it's the fricken rooftops! Hypocrisy 101.

PS: Get out of your scout suit if you are so concerned about ARs, Shotguns, and Knives Oh MY! No one has a scanning range of 100+ meters so slap on a heavy suit if you don't want to blow away.

@ Timothy Reaper: I know you are a top-o-the line sniper but I am not and no one is on team chat, no one responds to LFS very often these days, and I have nowhere near a prototype sniper. I can fly a DS but I've seen many a blueberry fail miserably, including myself due to Proto forges. My suggestion for ladders and walkways, all it does is remove the need to risk a dropship for snipers and ARs alike.

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SCAT mania Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 354	Posted - 2013.08.06 13:14:00 - [121] - Quote Fire of Prometheus wrote: A good sniper will notice the dropship being deployed and then plan ahead and kill you before you get into the ship. Yup see a dropship being called in. wait till its nearly on top of you and call in a tank. pew pew its dead, recall back to sniping
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 56	Posted - 2013.08.06 13:20:00 - [122] - Quote SCAT mania wrote: Fire of Prometheus wrote: A good sniper will notice the dropship being deployed and then plan ahead and kill you before you get into the ship. Yup see a dropship being called in. wait till its nearly on top of you and call in a tank. pew pew its dead, recall back to sniping Lol I was thinking put down some REs and then boom all gone
Bojo The Mighty Zanzibar Concept 1381	Posted - 2013.08.06 16:45:00 - [123] - Quote TheEnd762 wrote: You mean like how Snipers are currently outgunned by pretty much anyone else, unless they're on a roof, along the edges of the map, or behind the redline? Our scout suits can be shredded in one short burst from an AR and our rifles are useless inside 100m or so. If you get to beg for some stupid mechanic to allow you to easily engage a sniper in his element, where's the mechanic for sniper to easily engage grunts down on the field, or shotgunners and nova knifers in CQC? AND WITHOUT HAVING TO CHANGE OUR WEAPON/SUIT/EQIUIPMENT OR USE TEAMWORK, SINCE THAT'S OUT OF THE QUESTION? Snipers are not supposed to be untouchable, yet you ask to keep it like that. Snipers are not outgunned by other guns, they are under-ranged by other guns. Sniping does not require teamwork so why should killing a sniper require teamwork. Your assumption is that all snipers have to be in Redzones or on top of buildings where people can not reach them. That's just scaredy-pus gameplay, going only where other people won't hurt you Also, it's a ladder for god's sake! It's not the end of the world! For all intents and purposes this would save snipers and forges a lot of money in risking dropships. The mechanic that allows snipers to easily engage grunts is already there, it's the fricken rooftops! Hypocrisy 101. PS: Get out of your scout suit if you are so concerned about ARs, Shotguns, and Knives Oh MY! No one has a scanning range of 100+ meters so slap on a heavy suit if you don't want to blow away. @ Timothy Reaper: I know you are a top-o-the line sniper but I am not and no one is on team chat, no one responds to LFS very often these days, and I have nowhere near a prototype sniper. I can fly a DS but I've seen many a blueberry fail miserably, including myself due to Proto forges. My suggestion for ladders and walkways, all it does is remove the need to risk a dropship for snipers and ARs alike.
TheEnd762 SVER True Blood 162	Posted - 2013.08.06 17:45:00 - [124] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: TheEnd762 wrote: You mean like how Snipers are currently outgunned by pretty much anyone else, unless they're on a roof, along the edges of the map, or behind the redline? Our scout suits can be shredded in one short burst from an AR and our rifles are useless inside 100m or so. If you get to beg for some stupid mechanic to allow you to easily engage a sniper in his element, where's the mechanic for sniper to easily engage grunts down on the field, or shotgunners and nova knifers in CQC? AND WITHOUT HAVING TO CHANGE OUR WEAPON/SUIT/EQIUIPMENT OR USE TEAMWORK, SINCE THAT'S OUT OF THE QUESTION? Snipers are not supposed to be untouchable, yet you ask to keep it like that. Snipers are not outgunned by other guns, they are under-ranged by other guns. Sniping does not require teamwork so why should killing a sniper require teamwork. Your assumption is that all snipers have to be in Redzones or on top of buildings where people can not reach them. That's just scaredy-pus gameplay, going only where other people won't hurt you Also, it's a ladder for god's sake! It's not the end of the world! For all intents and purposes this would save snipers and forges a lot of money in risking dropships. The mechanic that allows snipers to easily engage grunts is already there, it's the fricken rooftops! Hypocrisy 101. PS: Get out of your scout suit if you are so concerned about ARs, Shotguns, and Knives Oh MY! No one has a scanning range of 100+ meters so slap on a heavy suit if you don't want to blow away. @ Timothy Reaper: I know you are a top-o-the line sniper but I am not and no one is on team chat, no one responds to LFS very often these days, and I have nowhere near a prototype sniper. I can fly a DS but I've seen many a blueberry fail miserably, including myself due to Proto forges. My suggestion for ladders and walkways, all it does is remove the need to risk a dropship for snipers and ARs alike. For the last time, they are not untouchable. You just don't want to use any of the several methods already available to you. You want engaging a sniper to be a cakewalk; something you can do on your own, on a whim. You want to give snipers yet another thing to worry about, because they ANNOY you, and you want to break their strategy. Sniping doesn't require teamwork? True. But if a sniper is ALONE on a roof and you can't get him on your own as it is, you don't deserve to. If there's a team of snipers up there, you should need a team to take them out. Teamwork is the one thing that SHOULD only be countered by itself. Everyone wanted snipers out of the MCC, so we got forced out. Then people wanted us out of the redzone, because they couldn't get close to us without auto-dying. Now we're out of the redzone, and you're still crying. You're NOT going to get us running around with the cannon fodder, so stop trying. You take away our perches, we'll go back to the redzone. We ARE outgunned if we're not out of the way. It's not "scaredy-pus" gameplay, that's just how snipers work. I don't care if it would supposedly save me ISK on dropships. I'm comfortable with the risk-vs-reward of dropships as it is right now. The rooftops are not a mechanic for easily engaging grunts that were given to because we cried. Going up there is a strategy we figured out on our own. Just because you can't come up with one to counter it (or again, use one of the SEVERAL that have been listed over and over) doesn't mean it should be broken for you by changing the game. Get out of my scout suit? So you can't be bothered to use a weapon or vehicle that's out of your wheelhouse to take me out, but I'm supposed to change my equipment for you? You have been completely discredited by your hypocrisy.
Bojo The Mighty Zanzibar Concept 1381	Posted - 2013.08.06 18:08:00 - [125] - Quote The methods discussed were: Snipe Use a dropship Use an Orbital Ignore Those are the 4 ways to deal with snipers on a roof. No one has removed snipers from the redzone. Redzone sniping was only an issue when the map design made it such a favorable and dominating tactic. The only ways to deal with a redzone sniper is with a sniper rifle or go into there yourself, risk death (which I am fine with I did it all the time and made it back alive). If you can recall Codex Manus Peak, you would remember what the overpowering Redzone was like. Redzone sniping was fixed by map design. And no one is preventing anyone from redzone sniping. Now we are at the rooftops. The last "fix" for this issue was lowering the dropship flight ceiling, a terrible fix. It removed the roofs from gameplay and nerfed dropships. This rooftop sniping tactic is nothing new at all. In fact, the game mechanics make it so that with Prototype gear (forges + Suits + snipers), this rooftop sniping is a bulletproof strategy. No one gets up (forges just give a pop-o-the whistle and the DS is gone) and the roofs severely outrange all other weapons. It's a good strategy but the game allows that strategy to become overwhelming. Basically it makes me want to pick up forge guns and snipers and do the same because of the bulletproof success I see in it. But no plan should be so fool-proof. Basically, if you can't snipe and don't have an orbital, the best you can do is die multiple times trying to fly up there, because it is the only way. That is the problem, the only way up to those roofs is by taking an expensive and doomed elevator. Your DS will be shot down. But if there were ladders, it would increase the risk factor of sitting upon a rooftop. Ladders are not removing rooftops as sniper perches. Merely making it free to access them. Is that such a big problem? Is it really very concerning that someone would take five minutes of their time climbing a ladder to the roof of a skyscraper, just to kill a sniper, who could just jump off the building as soon as they were compromised? And ladders are no precious ball of bubble rap, people get sniped and blown off of ladders all the time. A sniper can still have a solid rooftop strategy, it's just that now they have to consider the threat of CQC. Infantry have to consider the threat of snipers, snipers have to consider the threat of infantry, that is only fair and right. Ladders offer no guarantees but they offer an alternative (making multiple) access to rooftops. A matter of map design can make the game more interesting, adding 3 dimensions for all players. There should always be two readily viable (meaning you shouldn't have to earn 1500 WP) options to deal with long range threats because making only one option viable detracts from the gameplay. It's how like if the AR was the only viable weapon in the game, a lot of people would stop playing dust.
Bojo The Mighty Zanzibar Concept 1381	Posted - 2013.08.06 18:16:00 - [126] - Quote RINON114 wrote: Edit: Might I also clarify that I have recently started using this tactic because of this discussion, and although it's always fun to kill unsuspecting targets, it would be a lot better if I had to worry about someone shooting me in the back. Fixed
Timothy Reaper ZionTCD 378	Posted - 2013.08.07 06:59:00 - [127] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: But no plan should be so fool-proof. It's hardly fool-proof; I've seen many teams lose a match because they either couldn't hold the position or didn't know how to use it to their advantage. In fact when I'm on overwatch duty one of my worst irritants is random players from my own team. Why? Because some idiot sitting next to me firing at random targets draws too much attention. Then I either have to spend most of my time defending myself (instead of defending an objective, taking out priority targets, etc.) or just abandon the post to the enemy. Bojo The Mighty wrote: ...no one is on team chat, no one responds to LFS very often these days... If you're having trouble finding people to squad with in your usual channels, try looking elsewhere. There's your local chat, LFS and Ringers Inc., to name a few. Plus you can find lots of channels in the Recruitment section of these forums.
Namirial Kensai Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 5	Posted - 2013.08.07 07:25:00 - [128] - Quote would adore if someday they could replace the unreal engine so we can have building damage akin to battlefield, so we can blow a whole into a stairwell halfway up a building, unload guys offa dropship, then fight our way to the rooftop for control. would be fun, but would only be beneficial for very large games. but yeah, no stairs/elevators/ladders makes the building thing a pain in the ass.
Lorhak Gannarsein DUST University Ivy League 234	Posted - 2013.08.28 12:09:00 - [129] - Quote I enjoy spawning a rail tank on the towers in line harvest. I've never been removed from them, except for when I get too excited and drive off :( I can kill your bolases, let alone your Dropships, I can tank your orbitals, and I can easily hide from your swarms and forges. And still be able to rip up your redline. If there were staircases, this would no longer be a foolproof strategy. I would appreciate that, though I don't really mind the essentially free WP as it is.
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 211	Posted - 2013.08.28 12:32:00 - [130] - Quote SCAT mania wrote: Fire of Prometheus wrote: A good sniper will notice the dropship being deployed and then plan ahead and kill you before you get into the ship. Yup see a dropship being called in. wait till its nearly on top of you and call in a tank. pew pew its dead, recall back to sniping I have done this before.......collected some sweet WP, tears and some hate mail. The RDV is my best weapon

Anoko Destrolock Nerfed Out 2	Posted - 2013.08.28 17:30:00 - [131] - Quote I have a tanker alt and forges and swarms can be a real problem on buildings. It currently takes only 3-4 proto swarms to kill an armor tank and if that person is 200m in the air and your turret can't reach them but they can hit you easily, what do u do? Certain maps such as the one with the bridge (where alpha is on the bridge in domination) there is a ton of space with no cover. I'm referring to the space on either side of the bridge. There are a lot of tall buildings from which you can easily kill tanks but this is probably the worst map. Other maps allow tankers to take cover but they end up pinned down. I'm torn because like someone else said, it gives a purpose to dropships and it also allows a strategic advantage. BUT AV on a high roof is unfair. Especially since you can never see ppl on high rooftops as a tanker. (Poor rendering distance and lack of vertical turret adjustment.
Bojo The Mighty Zanzibar Concept 1605	Posted - 2013.08.28 17:49:00 - [132] - Quote Tall buildings do not give purpose to dropships We who fly do not consider people who use DS only to get to rooftops to be pilots.


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